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No prep. They have any weapons they would normally carry.

Superman
Superboy

vs

Wonder Woman
Troia
Wonder Girl

Wonder Women

Diana can hold off Supes long enough for Troia and Wonder Girl to take out Connor. Then it's 3 on 1 and Supes goes down.

Agreed.

Wide beam heat vision

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Wide beam heat vision

Gets blocked ?

Nope The bracelets can't block it all it can be extended to full field of vision.

If Supes used his speed correctly he and Connor can win. WW and co. may have some decent speed but nothing compared to Superman.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Nope The bracelets can't block it all it can be extended to full field of vision.
The bracelets can make forcefields when crossed.

Originally posted by The Ion
The bracelets can make forcefields when crossed.

can she cross them faster than the speed of light?

Apparently she can cross them fast enough since she's done it before to Heat Vision and the Omega Beams.

forget about there damn speed look up there damn bio supermans strength is wat ahead of hers.

They fight in character. All versions are the most recent canon incarnations.

And yeah she's crossed her bracelets fast enough to block his heat vision before.

Originally posted by gi-jo-man
forget about there damn speed look up there damn bio supermans strength is wat ahead of hers.

As is his speed. I seem to remember her blocking both before but...... I still doubt she could if Supes was flying round her at Super speed.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
They fight in character. All versions are the most recent canon incarnations.

And yeah she's crossed her bracelets fast enough to block his heat vision before.

current wonder women is very scary.................
with her attitude she can take supes...imo

I bought the ones wher Max had Supes under control and she cut his throat with the tiara. In truth though I still think Supes woould beat these three. I occasionally pick her book up and I like the "Kingdom Come" style edge she has now, but I don't see DC Earth saying this is a job for "Wonderwoman".

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
I bought the ones wher Max had Supes under control and she cut his throat with the tiara. In truth though I still think Supes woould beat these three. I occasionally pick her book up and I like the "Kingdom Come" style edge she has now, but I don't see DC Earth saying this is a job for "Wonderwoman".
cause supes is still around........

Originally posted by thesilverspider
cause supes is still around........

Exactly, you call the best available. DC Earth knows who that is.

I think superman can take all three of them out by himself. After watching him kick Diana's ass in the Max lord story, very few can withstand a bloodlusted superman.

lets put it like this it wouldnt matter if max contralld supes or not if it came down to it WW goes down. Supes broke WW's wrist by squeezing her bracelets not to mention it look like he DENTED THEM!

Originally posted by AcousticDoc
I think superman can take all three of them out by himself. After watching him kick Diana's ass in the Max lord story, very few can withstand a bloodlusted superman. agreed

Originally posted by outavodka
lets put it like this it wouldnt matter if max contralld supes or not if it came down to it WW goes down. Supes broke WW's wrist by squeezing her bracelets not to mention it look like he DENTED THEM!

agreed

Originally posted by outavodka
lets put it like this it wouldnt matter if max contralld supes or not if it came down to it WW goes down. Supes broke WW's wrist by squeezing her bracelets not to mention it look like he DENTED THEM!
Diana broke multiple ribs in Superman's body aswell as one of his kneecaps. You guys who say he could say take all 3 are selling them way short. Troia is at least as strong as Diana and perhaps even a skyfather.

I omited she did that too him i wasnt oblivious to it. I never said hed do it all himself eithr! Just that TEAM BIG BLUE LEADS TO VICTORY!

He'd have to do it all himself. Conner isn't a match for Troia or Diana and since they fight in character he wouldn't touch Cassie. He goes down quickly.

Originally posted by AcousticDoc
I think superman can take all three of them out by himself. After watching him kick Diana's ass in the Max lord story, very few can withstand a bloodlusted superman. It was a relatively mutual ass-kicking. She was the one holding back, he wasn't.

Originally posted by outavodka
lets put it like this it wouldnt matter if max contralld supes or not if it came down to it WW goes down. Supes broke WW's wrist by squeezing her bracelets not to mention it look like he DENTED THEM! To me it looked like he broke her wrist by... you know... squeezing her wrist.

They're fighting "in character" i.e. Wonder Woman will kill if she deems it necessary, but they're still fighting i.e. Conner can put his personal feelings for Cassie aside, and vice versa.

when did they fight? What comic

Originally posted by The Ion
Diana broke multiple ribs in Superman's body aswell as one of his kneecaps. You guys who say he could say take all 3 are selling them way short. Troia is at least as strong as Diana and perhaps even a skyfather.

Maybe I missed something, when was it stated that Diana broke Superman's ribs and a kneecap?

Yes, WW put up a good fight but Supes was dominating the fight and even WW admitted it. True, WW was holding back but just barely.

I believe Supes commented on it during the Sacrifice aftermath.

I wouldn't say he dominated the fight. The fact is she took his best punches including the sun to earth Thorbuster ( ) and got up from all of them. The fact that she felt the need to hold back even a little bit shows she could have done way more damage than she did.

Supes can beat Wonder Woman (and vice versa) but he isn't beating two Wonder Women (Diana and Donna).

The chicks go down. And this is even a topic question? WW is a nothing...Much weaker than Superman. And you guys sayin she can hold him up long enough Supes uses a bit of speed and strenght and it's about 5 punches and damn WW is down. She is not unbreakable like Supe maybe skilled fighter, good weapons but not as much power and speed. These hoes are gonna die. Come on....Damn.

Originally posted by The Ion


I wouldn't say he dominated the fight. The fact is she took his best punches including the sun to earth Thorbuster ( ) and got up from all of them. The fact that she felt the need to hold back even a little bit shows she could have done way more damage than she did.

Do the chicks have K-nite rings in this fight?

Originally posted by Rewmac
The chicks go down. And this is even a topic question? WW is a nothing...Much weaker than Superman. And you guys sayin she can hold him up long enough Supes uses a bit of speed and strenght and it's about 5 punches and damn WW is down. She is not unbreakable like Supe maybe skilled fighter, good weapons but not as much power and speed. These hoes are gonna die. Come on....Damn.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Do the chicks have K-nite rings in this fight? Didn't WW lose the Kryptonite ring when she was punched back to Earth from when Superman brought them both close to the sun?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Didn't WW lose the Kryptonite ring when she was punched back to Earth from when Superman brought them both close to the sun? She lost it when Supes punched her in the face I think.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
She lost it when Supes punched her in the face I think. I.e. the sun-to-earth punch so when she was fighting him for the most part she was K-nite-ringless.

And no they don't have K-nite rings in the fight, they're the most recent incarnations and have only what they'd normally carry.

Troia & Wonder Girl raise their shirts and flashes the dynamic duo. While Superman is distracted and trying to cover Superboys eyes. WW uses her lazos to tie them up and then the 3 girls all jump in for the beating of their life.

Yea but wasn't the ring what saved her from Superman tossin her into the Sun?

I forgot the Kryptonite ring that puts a different shade on the whole battle, I will have to reread it, she was holding back but had the K ring at the star writing that poor normally belongs in a marvel mutant comic.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Yea but wasn't the ring what saved her from Superman tossin her into the Sun? Possibly... the Sacrifice aftermath thing makes it seem like he never intended to throw her in.

I saw that fight as relatively even. She could have done more than just glance his neck, he may have thrown her into the sun. Both are worse for wear after the fight.

However this wasn't intended as just WW vs Superman..... otherwise I would have just made WW vs Superman...

If'd have 2 Kryptonite rings even my granny would be able to beat Superman and Superboy....

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It was a relatively mutual ass-kicking. She was the one holding back, he wasn't.



It was in her own title aswell !

Originally posted by Rewmac
If'd have 2 Kryptonite rings even my granny would be able to beat Superman and Superboy.... Not if he blasted you with heat vision from 100ft. away.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
I forgot the Kryptonite ring that puts a different shade on the whole battle, I will have to reread it, she was holding back but had the K ring at the star writing that poor normally belongs in a marvel mutant comic.

Originally posted by outavodka
lets put it like this it wouldnt matter if max contralld supes or not if it came down to it WW goes down. Supes broke WW's wrist by squeezing her bracelets not to mention it look like he DENTED THEM!

*sigh*

He didn't DENT them, please (Although the art was bad...)

Wonder Woman broke his ribs....and yet everyone just plainly forgets it.

Supes knocked her out in that fight after she tried using k-nite on him. When she entered back into the atmosphere she woke up.

If Superman would have followed up on that knock out he could have finished her.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Supes knocked her out in that fight. When she entered back into the atmosphere she woke up.

Correction: She BLACKED out. Something completely different. And by the time frame for only a few seconds. And after such a powerful punch that sent her back from the Sun to the Earth in mere seconds, who WOULDN'T black out?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
If Superman would have followed up on that knock out he could have finished her.

True. But he wanted her to suffer and such...

Diana COULD have decaptiated his crazy ass but....

Draco long time no see.

I have a ? for ya. Do you think WW is stronger than DC Herc.?

Check out the Black Adam vs. Immortal Herc. thread.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Draco long time no see.

I have a ? for ya. Do you think WW is stronger than DC Herc.?

Check out the Black Adam vs. Immortal Herc. thread.

You too! I was SO busy with holidays and finals and such.

Is WW is stronger than DC Hercules? She should be. Think it about. The gods designed her to be as wise as Athena (and she is) to be faster than Hermes (she's that too) and all her other gifts. BUT she's was also gifted with the "Strength of Gaea greater than that of Hercules." This isn't merely a turn of phrase. This was a literal magic spell created by the gods that gave her the strength of Gaea via her avatar Demeter.

Olympian may have doubts, but I have to ask if the gods gave her the exact abilities of her patrons for speed, intellect, stamina, etc; why would they mess up on strength? Answer: They didn't. She IS stronger than Hercules because that's precisely the way the gods designed her to be. If she didn't, than that means she cannot have her powers because her powers are all linked via Mother Gaea (i.e. the Earth).

Originally posted by thesilverspider
current wonder women is very scary.................
with her attitude she can take supes...imo

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/freeze.jpg

Owned

http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwomanv2219087pa.jpg

OWNED

http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=017supermanbatman015rembrandtd.jpg

And OWNED!!

Originally posted by cheap cabbage
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/freeze.jpg
Owned

http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wonderwomanv2219087pa.jpg

OWNED

http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=017supermanbatman015rembrandtd.jpg

And OWNED!!

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7973/wonderwoman219a3ud.th.jpg http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/510/wonderwoman219c5yt.th.jpg

Originally posted by xmarksthespot


http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7973/wonderwoman219a3ud.th.jpg http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/510/wonderwoman219c5yt.th.jpg

Supes could have so thrown a planet at her.

Meh, he can't do that anymore...

There's one big issue I have with WW vs. Superman in general. (I think we all pretty much agree that Superboy is getting the crap beat out of him, yes?) Wonderwoman is easily one of the top ten h2h fighters in DC. Now, if someone like Batman can hang with people who are thousands of times stronger and faster than him on skill alone, why does Diana not absolutely beat the living hell out of Superman, whos ratio of power of Wonderwoman is nowhere near that high? Sales and iconic auras aside, I think it's actually more likely that Wonderwoman, written to her potential, should demolish Kal a good amount of the time. She's not as strong as him, but she's strong enough to hurt him. She's not as fast, but she can see him moving, etc etc etc.

We're starting a revolution. Wonderwomen, 9/10. Diana takes 6/10 against Clark by herself, but Connor is having his head caved in each and every time. And even Supes isn't taking all 3 by himself.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Meh, he can't do that anymore...

There's one big issue I have with WW vs. Superman in general. (I think we all pretty much agree that Superboy is getting the crap beat out of him, yes?) Wonderwoman is easily one of the top ten h2h fighters in DC. Now, if someone like Batman can hang with people who are thousands of times stronger and faster than him on skill alone, why does Diana not absolutely beat the living hell out of Superman, whos ratio of power of Wonderwoman is nowhere near that high? Sales and iconic auras aside, I think it's actually more likely that Wonderwoman, written to her potential, should demolish Kal a good amount of the time. She's not as strong as him, but she's strong enough to hurt him. She's not as fast, but she can see him moving, etc etc etc.

We're starting a revolution. Wonderwomen, 9/10. Diana takes 6/10 against Clark by herself, but Connor is having his head caved in each and every time. And even Supes isn't taking all 3 by himself.

Batman only holds his own b/c superman holds back everytime. Even batman admits it. Read hush. Superman can't ever be used to his full potential in comics. the comic would cover one page and it'd be a blur of superman taking out all crime. Diana only gets wins b/c she's always packing some magical weapon. Why can't superman run to his fortress and bring out some crap from the armory. I'd like to see WW fight off superman wielding a krptonian battlesuit and warworld guns. Superman truely bloodlusted would just go for a sundip. End of story.

Originally posted by cheap cabbage
Batman only holds his own b/c superman holds back everytime. Even batman admits it. Read hush.

That's because he's BATGOD. Read the OMAC Project. In the end, it all came down to Batman's EMP....despite the fact there were no less than FIVE characters in the battle that could have generated an EMP themselves. Like Green Lantern.




Originally posted by cheap cabbage
Superman can't ever be used to his full potential in comics. the comic would cover one page and it'd be a blur of superman taking out all crime.

Absolutely true. But the same could be said for Wonder Woman. WW's fast enough to just vibrate through bullets, or she can speedblitz every opponent. But she doesn't. It's a general rule of thumb for DC characters to never be written to full potential. Which is a travesty.

Originally posted by cheap cabbage
Diana only gets wins b/c she's always packing some magical weapon.

And? Superman has heat vision, tornado breath, freeze-breath and god knows what else. Isn't it fair to even the odds a bit?


Originally posted by cheap cabbage
Why can't superman run to his fortress and bring out some crap from the armory. I'd like to see WW fight off superman wielding a krptonian battlesuit and warworld guns.

Superman has an incredible arsenal in his Fortress....but WW has access to some truly scary sh*t. She has gods at her beckon to create weapons to destroy whole continents. She has access to not only the Greek Pantheon but ALL gods including Heaven itself. Hell she can just take out her Medousa Head and call it a day.

Originally posted by cheap cabbage
Superman truely bloodlusted would just go for a sundip. End of story.

Wonder Woman truly bloodlusted would just go for the Godwave. Godwave Wonder Woman > Sundipped Superman. End of story.

Originally posted by The Ion
Wonder Women

Diana can hold off Supes long enough for Troia and Wonder Girl to take out Connor. Then it's 3 on 1 and Supes goes down.


No way if he was not holding back he would break Wonderwomans neck with her own Lasso and then kill of the rest easily you can see him do that in the Ownage forum.

Originally posted by Fanboy
No way if he was not holding back he would break Wonderwomans neck with her own Lasso and then kill of the rest easily you can see him do that in the Ownage forum.
Did you even read the story where he broke her neck with the lasso? She wasn't trying to fight him. She was trying to bring him back to reality. In other words, she was holding back. Yes, Superman isn't the only person who holds back.

Originally posted by The Ion
Did you even read the story where he broke her neck with the lasso? She wasn't trying to fight him. She was trying to bring him back to reality. In other words, she was holding back. Yes, Superman isn't the only person who holds back.

Maybe you should read more clearly before making such erroneous claims. A handful of pages earlier Wonder Woman says overtly:

"What I do, I do FREELY and with clear conscience. DIE OPPRESSOR!"

And kills Batman without hesitation. It's hilarious to pretend she was holding back afterwards, instead what we see his Superman unleashed fully in his rage against Wonder Woman and her completely incapable of responding save to make a plea to his better nature, HARDLY Wonder Woman holding back by ANY stretch of the imagination.

Originally posted by Draco69
That's because he's BATGOD. Read the OMAC Project. In the end, it all came down to Batman's EMP....despite the fact there were no less than FIVE characters in the battle that could have generated an EMP themselves. Like Green Lantern.


Wonder Woman truly bloodlusted would just go for the Godwave. Godwave Wonder Woman > Sundipped Superman. End of story.

Wonder woman can't just bust out godwave on a whim. The time she did use it, she said herself that she couldn't control it and it would destroy her. Superman files in the sun, comes out. Wonderman has to recieve godwave from the gods and such, which while more powerful than sundip, requires a slow process to aquire. Sudipped superman shit kicks everyone.

Originally posted by Demas
Maybe you should read more clearly before making such erroneous claims. A handful of pages earlier Wonder Woman says overtly:

"What I do, I do FREELY and with clear conscience. DIE OPPRESSOR!"

And kills Batman without hesitation. It's hilarious to pretend she was holding back afterwards, instead what we see his Superman unleashed fully in his rage against Wonder Woman and her completely incapable of responding save to make a plea to his better nature, HARDLY Wonder Woman holding back by ANY stretch of the imagination.
Disagree. He blitzed her from the moon once and she started talking to him without trying to get up and defend. Furthermore she was stated to be holding back in the Sacrifice fight.

Like Draco said, if she wanted him dead, he gets decapitated by the tiara. She has more than enough weapons to handle Supes.

Originally posted by The Ion
Disagree. He blitzed her from the moon once and she started talking to him without trying to get up and defend. Furthermore she was stated to be holding back in the Sacrifice fight.

Like Draco said, if she wanted him dead, he gets decapitated by the tiara. She has more than enough weapons to handle Supes.

Wonder woman yes probably held back, but the writers placed enormous restraint in superman's power level. He was written as fighting dirty, but hardly using all his power. A full force thorbuster from next to the sun should have turned her into paste. The only way wonder woman could kill superman is to surprise him with a majic weapon of some kind. Straight fight, superman tears her limb from limb.

Originally posted by cheap cabbage
Batman only holds his own b/c superman holds back everytime. Even batman admits it. Read hush. Superman can't ever be used to his full potential in comics. the comic would cover one page and it'd be a blur of superman taking out all crime. Diana only gets wins b/c she's always packing some magical weapon. Why can't superman run to his fortress and bring out some crap from the armory. I'd like to see WW fight off superman wielding a krptonian battlesuit and warworld guns. Superman truely bloodlusted would just go for a sundip. End of story.

What, my whole rant on fighting skills, gone because I mentioned Batman?

I wasn't talking about Bruce fighting Superman. He uses plot devices to an extreme there. I'm talking about higher end street levelers, anyone in the 25 tonnish range. Daredevil fighting Spiderman, Slade fighting the Titans, even Mantis stunning Thor or Gamora surviving Thanos.

Wonderwoman can hold her own in h2h skills against any of them, physical differences aside. If she was made human in all respects, she'd still hang with DD and Batman... I dunno about Mantis and Gamora, but she definitely wouldn't go down without a fight.

Spiderman is almost 50 times stronger than Daredevil, and something like 20 times as fast. Superman is MAYBE twice as strong and fast as Wonderwoman. However, when DD and Spiderman meet, Daredevil gives him a VERY good fight, and sometimes even ends up on top. When Wonderwoman fights Clark, she doesn't use any fancy moves at all. She doesn't play defensive and predict his blows, she never even attempts pressure points, she hardly even pulls out a basic block or two. Fighting to her full ability, Superman should be getting thrown around by her staggering fighting skills advantage and comparable physical traits.

Wonderwoman, 6/10.

He DID break her wrist thingies.
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9771/017supermanbatman015rembrandtd.jpg

Wouldn't her magic lasso hurt Superman when he touched it ?

No what the hell are you thinking about?

People seem to think Superman has some super weakness to magic, like its mere presence would kill him. This simply isn't the case. He's been blasted by all kinds of magic heavy hitters. He's no more weak to magic than anyone else, that's what "Superman's weakness" is. Having no mounted vulnerability like he does against everything else in the universe.

Hey Draco. Long time no see. I had that "argument" with Snoop. I also remembered having it with you along time ago. I said since then my opinion is that she hasent prove it.

Here is my take.:


"Is WW is stronger than DC Hercules? She should be. Think it about. The gods designed her to be as wise as Athena (and she is) to be faster than Hermes (she's that too)


When has she outraced Hermes. Or Mercury for that matter, considering that post crisis one was the avatar of the other.




"and all her other gifts. BUT she's was also gifted with the "Strength of Gaea greater than that of Hercules." This isn't merely a turn of phrase. This was a literal magic spell created by the gods that gave her the strength of Gaea via her avatar Demeter. "


And with this another questions arise. Gaea is "Skyfather" level isent it? And that would make Diana as strong as the planet. Or not?

When Demeter granted Diana strengh via the earth (Demeter an earth godess, not Gaea), it was as a -source-. She gets her strenght from the Earth. No measures or comparations wer given. We dont even know how strong Gaea is in her "true" form.

If she has the strenght of Earth itself (the planet) and not only as a source then why couldnt she moved the earth when she had to?

Also as a note, Heracles wasent meantioned as strenght comparation between the two either when she was granted strenght. We know of that "tag line" because she said so on panel when helping the others move the moon for example. In the exact same sentence where she said he has held the Earth.

Is the whole sentence wrong or not?

Least but not the last. When has she in the times they shared space in her comic showed to be stronger?

Originally posted by The Ion
Disagree. He blitzed her from the moon once and she started talking to him without trying to get up and defend. Furthermore she was stated to be holding back in the Sacrifice fight.

Wow you're just totally taking stuff out of context now. READ the ENTIRE issue. Wonder Woman was fully committed to killing BOTH Batman and Superman in that story. That was their entire mission. Every word of condemnation she said to Batman applied to them both equally and she explicitly says they were both the greastest heroes both turned oppressors.

Now you want us to laughly buy that she impaled Batman screaming "DIE OPPRESSOR!" and explicitly said she wasn't holding back in as many words, but for whatever reason decides to lay down and die against Kal?

For the record, she does try to defend herself. But Superman destroys her block and punches through her second bracelet having crushed the other one earlier with ease. It's not that she didn't try to get up or defend, it's that she COULDN'T in face of Superman's overwhelming power. Unless you're saying Diana is of the character to sacrifice the liberty of the nation/planet for her assuage her own relations. Please.

Meanwhile, the Sacrifice fight really has no bearing on the fight in S/B#15, it only serves to prove that Wonder Woman needs significant setup to position any kind of viable attack. Absent setup the tiara is easily dodged and similarly crushed. Meanwhile, both S/B#15 and Sacrifice demonstrate- absent any setup- the destructive capabilities of Superman out-the-gate. Bottom line, if Supes opens up full tilt S/B#15 is how it goes. WW needs to set Supes up for any of her attacks to work.

People always have to plot device the bejesus out of Supes just to slow him for a moment, lol.

Originally posted by Juntai
People always have to plot device the bejesus out of Supes just to slow him for a moment, lol.

WW is powerful but superman owns her most of the time, he could freeze her which he's done before or just pount the crap outta her again, lol simple dimple

Originally posted by Hit and Run
Wouldn't her magic lasso hurt Superman when he touched it ?

Actually it CAN. Every notice that fiery glow around the lasso. Every wonder why the lasso glows at ALL. It's simply because it's quite literally on fire with Hestia's flames. If used offensively it is capable of burning anyone it touches...even gods themselves. If she used the lasso offensively on Superman, it would cause severe burns much like a person doused in gasoline in contact with a flaming match. Ouch.

However she doesn't like to do so because:

A) The lasso was not meant to be weapon. She has creed with this.

B) Such an effect would likely kill Superman. Hestia's flames are capable of burning gods themselves alive and they're quite hardy to magic. Using such a tactic against Superman would reduce him to a smoking corpse. And no way in hell would DC editors allow that to happen.

Originally posted by olympian


And with this another questions arise. Gaea is "Skyfather" level isent it? And that would make Diana as strong as the planet. Or not?

Gaea is rarely seen (Except that crap Joe Kelly issue...) so we cannot properly gauge her power. BUT the Greek Gods hold her in reverance and seem to postulate that her power is greater than theirs.

Originally posted by olympian

When Demeter granted Diana strengh via the earth (Demeter an earth godess, not Gaea), it was as a -source-. She gets her strenght from the Earth. No measures or comparations wer given. We dont even know how strong Gaea is in her "true" form.

Incorrect. Demeter is an avatar of Gaea. In the first issue of Wonder Woman, Demeter directly stated "I grant her the strength of Gaea, the strength of the Earth itself." Which means she was quite literally given the strength of the Earth or more accurately Gaea.

True, no comparisions were given. But neither was it for the other patrons either. She was given the wisdom of Athena which granted her as much as intelligence as Athena, minus the whole all-seeing goddess jig. You have to understand that Diana was given the powers of her patrons in sum totality. She wasn't given a vague knock-off of their powers. She was quite literally given their powers. Since Gaea is the mother of all gods, the Earth acts as a sustenance of these powers. Since the Gaea acts as the patron of her strength, her strength doesn't seem to have any discernable limit.

Originally posted by olympian
If she has the strenght of Earth itself (the planet) and not only as a source then why couldnt she moved the earth when she had to?

The same reason Green Lantern could have just done it himself. Green Lantern could have moved either the moon or Earth himself. But he was downplayed (like Diana) for dramatic effect. And you know just as well as I do how many DC writers know little to nothing about the true extent of Diana's powers or history. They just think: flight, strength, lasso, bracelets. All done. Which is simply isn't the case.

Originally posted by olympian
Also as a note, Heracles wasent meantioned as strenght comparation between the two either when she was granted strenght. We know of that "tag line" because she said so on panel when helping the others move the moon for example. In the exact same sentence where she said he has held the Earth.

You're referring to JLA/Titans a fairly recent referance of her strength comparision to Hercules. And it's certainly not the first referance. The first reference in comparision was made by Zeus himself in WONDER WOMAN #24. Then again in WONDER WOMAN #110. It's been mentioned quite a few times because it was a key differance between Pre-Crisis WW and Post-Crisis WW. Pre merely had the strength of Hercules while Diana was designed to be better than the Pre-Crisis self with every power upgraded including her strength.



Originally posted by olympian
Least but not the last. When has she in the times they shared space in her comic showed to be stronger?

Definitively? Not that I can remember. I'll look around. Perhaps they fought when he was disguised as Champion. He DID come on to her. Coming on to a Amazon is never a smart move...

Originally posted by Draco69

However she doesn't like to do so because:

A) The lasso was not meant to be weapon. She has creed with this.

B) Such an effect would likely kill Superman. Hestia's flames are capable of burning gods themselves alive and they're quite hardy to magic. Using such a tactic against Superman would reduce him to a smoking corpse. And no way in hell would DC editors allow that to happen.

You forgot:

C) And likely CAN'T. The lasso can only burn those it deems impure, a test passed by Superman in the past.

Overall her lariat has seem to been depowered... in Sacrifice or S/B#15, for example, Wonder Woman could not use it to simply compel Superman to see the Truth.

Originally posted by Demas
Wow you're just totally taking stuff out of context now. READ the ENTIRE issue. Wonder Woman was fully committed to killing BOTH Batman and Superman in that story. That was their entire mission. Every word of condemnation she said to Batman applied to them both equally and she explicitly says they were both the greastest heroes both turned oppressors.

Now you want us to laughly buy that she impaled Batman screaming "DIE OPPRESSOR!" and explicitly said she wasn't holding back in as many words, but for whatever reason decides to lay down and die against Kal?

For the record, she does try to defend herself. But Superman destroys her block and punches through her second bracelet having crushed the other one earlier with ease. It's not that she didn't try to get up or defend, it's that she COULDN'T in face of Superman's overwhelming power. Unless you're saying Diana is of the character to sacrifice the liberty of the nation/planet for her assuage her own relations. Please.

Honey. You're refering to a JEPH LOEB issue. Jeph-Pussifying Darkseid-Loeb. The issue took place in an alternate reality and Jeph Loeb admitted in a Newsrama interview (because comic fans were in uproar of how in hell Superman could break WW's bracelets) Jeph Loeb tried to pass it off as the bracelets being made of a different substance. Again, this Jeph Loeb. Again this is Jeph Loeb. He's a REALLY bad writer when it comes to DC characters: Batman defeating Lady Shiva in one move (Impossible. Batman has consistently said he was inferior to Lady Shiva in the past. In a three-way battle with Lady Shiva and Richard Dragon, he didn't last two minutes) Supergirl defeating Raven by breaking out of her soul-self (Impossible. For heaven's sake it holds the entire dimension of Trigon(HELL) WITH hundreds of uber-demons.) Wonder Girl jobbing to her own damn lasso (Impossible. Supergirl should have been fried by holding a pulsating lasso conducting with MAGICAL lightening. Cassie (or Zeus) is the only one who can use the lasso offensively. Why? Because she's the daughter of Zeus. Batman defeating Black Lightening with a tazer (Black Lightening ABSORBS electricity WTF?!) Batman defeating Captain Marvel with a kick (Do I even have to say?) Batman defeating Green Lantern with a freeze ray (Oh god....)

On to the bracelets. THERE. IS. NO. WAY. IN. HELL. Superman could EVER break those damn bracelets.

Why? The ENTIRE Greek Pantheon (full of Skyfather-level beings) opened a can of whup-ass on those bracelets by unleashing ALL their power collectively and combining it into one massive beam. The beam was described as "infinite power". Such blast would destroy planets and entire galaxies. But the bracelets? Not a scratch. The beam reflected of her bracelets and WW was left unharmed.

You're telling me Superman can hit harder than the entire Greek Pantheon?

All in all, NEVER use Superman/Batman as canonical source. I feel sorry for the Ultimates comics. Get ready to see Captain America defeating Galactus with shield toss...

Originally posted by Demas
Meanwhile, the Sacrifice fight really has no bearing on the fight in S/B#15, it only serves to prove that Wonder Woman needs significant setup to position any kind of viable attack. Absent setup the tiara is easily dodged and similarly crushed. Meanwhile, both S/B#15 and Sacrifice demonstrate- absent any setup- the destructive capabilities of Superman out-the-gate. Bottom line, if Supes opens up full tilt S/B#15 is how it goes. WW needs to set Supes up for any of her attacks to work.

First off Superman ain't destroying the tiara. Gods have tried and failed. Just for future referance, Superman can't destroy ANY of Diana's magical items. They completely indestructible and immutable. It would take a truly cosmic being to do so. And Superman ain't dodging it either. The tiara is magically tuned to ALWAYS hit its target.

Second, AGAIN referring to the Jeph Loeb issue is like referring to Tom Cruise about abnormal psychology. Jeph Loeb is THAT bad.

It AMAZES me how many read "Sacrifice" incorrectly. In nutshell we saw a BLOODLUSTED, CRAZY Superman versus a HOLDING BACK, I DON'T WANT TO FIGHT YOU Wonder Woman. You make it seem like they were both giving it their all. WW certainly wasn't. She broke his ribs and slit his throat. But she certainly wasn't in her warrior-mode. If she was, Superman would be suffering from massive wounds from her lasso, several sword stab wounds and perhaps a few missing limbs.

I highly suggest you research WW. She isn't DC's Rogue.

Originally posted by Demas
You forgot:

C) And likely CAN'T. The lasso can only burn those it deems impure, a test passed by Superman in the past.

Untrue. It can burn anyone that isn't being completely and utterly truthful. Which is none. Noone is completely and utterly truthful. Hell even the Angels of the Host weren't immune to its powers. It requires the absolute, unfettered truth. Superman, while certainly a Boy Scout, is does not fulfill that requirement.

And the lasso wields Gaea's/Hestia's (damn retcons...) flames that can be used offensively against objects as well. Is metal armour ethically pure too?

Originally posted by Demas
Overall her lariat has seem to been depowered... in Sacrifice or S/B#15, for example, Wonder Woman could not use it to simply compel Superman to see the Truth.

Her lariat wasn't depowered. You obviously don't read WW. It worked the last few times he was mind-controlled, and the reason it didn't work now was because DC editors said so and it's relevant to Infinite Crisis. Rucka admitted it was a glaring plot hole the size of Canada but he tried to make the best of it...and failed miserably.

Superman/Batman again. It was an ALTERNATE reality written by a hack writer who thinks Batman can knock out Captain Marvel with a kick. What's next Chuck Austen.

Originally posted by cheap cabbage
Wonder woman can't just bust out godwave on a whim. The time she did use it, she said herself that she couldn't control it and it would destroy her. Superman files in the sun, comes out. Wonderman has to recieve godwave from the gods and such, which while more powerful than sundip, requires a slow process to aquire. Sudipped superman shit kicks everyone.

Wonder Woman merely has to pray to the Godwave itself. Not the Greek Gods (in that issue she got the Godwave resided in the Greek Pantheon). The REAL Godwave is the source of all superpowers. The progenitor of the Speed Force. The reason Supermen, Wonder Women, and superpowers exist at all. Diana only requires a small moment to do so. Superman has to fly to the sun, sit there for a while, come out and THAN fight. Diana merely has to think "Give me the Godwave".

Can Diana only use it for a limited time? Yes. A few seconds at most. But when you're the most powerful being in existence, time is irrelevant. WW just blips him out of existance.

Watch out, Drooling Fanboy in the house!

You can hate a writer to your hearts content but it doesn't prevent it from being cited in this forum regardless. And what you see with S/B is more iconic/classic representations of characters rather than one's steeped in fanboy continuity... bottom-line is that DC Editorial gave it a by and it passed into canon whether you like it or not.



It certainly wasn't above him when he fought them in "The Pantheon of Gods" storyline, intending to make him a god- hah, Diana's superior- in the process.



Broken bracelets.



And yet I have the issues of Wonder Woman where she describes the flight of her tiara as that of a boomerang and a skill to be trained in. But now it's a heat-seeking smart-missle with a mind of its own... gotcha.



The key point. Unable to respond tactically to Wonder Woman, forced to parse everything to elaborate and inaccurate visions. Meanwhile, everytime he's been "clear" headed, he's come up victorious by far.



Research is fine... bowing down in adoring worship is a whole other ballgame.

Now, there is bad writing and then there is BAD WRITING, see Spiderman vs Firelord. One bad writer shouldn't permantly downgrade a character. The problem in my opinion is the change is WonderWoman's role in the DCU. She has grown from being little more than a secretary for the JLA to being Superman's equal. But this transition hasn't been smooth and many writers wobble back and forth to each extreme. See Alex Ross' version in Kingdom Come compared to the aforementioned Jeph Loeb version.

Personally, I see her as superior to Superman in the fact that she has a willingness to take sometimes violent action if she thinks it is the last option. While Superman always holds back, its just in his nature and the few exceptions prove the rule.

Originally posted by Demas
Watch out, Drooling Fanboy in the house!

That much is apparent. For heaven's sake, we all love Superman but this quite ridiculous.

Originally posted by Demas
You can hate a writer to your hearts content but it doesn't prevent it from being cited in this forum regardless.

Unless its PIS. Which in this case it is. I already proved that its impossible for Superman (even sundipped) to break those lassoes as Skyfather-level and other cosmic foes have tried and failed. Even Cronos wielding the Eternity Axe which wielded the powers of nearly a dozen godly pantheons (with some of the Angel Host) failed to break the bracelets. Superman breaking the bracelets with a simple, two-inches away jab is clearly not gonna happen. Again, you clearly know next to nothing about Wonder Woman so you you're basing your assumptions on nothing but bias and lack of knowledge. Let's say you know nothing about Captain America nor his shield. You read a comic where Daredevil destroys it with a kick. You make a fool of yourself quoting a comic where Daredevil broke CA's shield with a kick. This is a fair analogy of what you're arguing here.

Originally posted by Demas
And what you see with S/B is more iconic/classic representations of characters rather than one's steeped in fanboy continuity...

S/B is just merely a hearken to the Pre-Crisis days. It's just a fun romp for older fans who miss the ridiculous plotlines where Superman fixes a timeline by fixing it.

Originally posted by Demas
bottom-line is that DC Editorial gave it a by and it passed into canon whether you like it or not.

Again. It's an alternate reality written with any regard to the characters actual power levels. I guess Batman defeating Green Lantern with a freeze beam is canon too right? Riiight.

In this form, PIS is ignored and disregarded with referance to actual potential and real powersets. Spider-Man vs. Firelord events in Superman/Batman are simply ignored much like Guardian of Alpha Flight defeating Galactus.

Originally posted by Demas
It certainly wasn't above him when he fought them in "The Pantheon of Gods" storyline, intending to make him a god- hah, Diana's superior- in the process.

You making a literal fool of yourself. Why would you refer to an Elseworlds tale where Lois Lane becomes Wonder Woman and Wonder Woman in this reality is a Nazi?




Originally posted by Demas
Broken bracelets.

I already described why it's impossible for it to happen.



Originally posted by Demas
And yet I have the issues of Wonder Woman where she describes the flight of her tiara as that of a boomerang and a skill to be trained in. But now it's a heat-seeking smart-missle with a mind of its own... gotcha.

Wonder Woman #114. It was enchanted by Pan as a gift for freeing him from Circe's influence. Please don't argue to me about WW's capablities. You'll just get curbstomped.



Originally posted by Demas
The key point. Unable to respond tactically to Wonder Woman, forced to parse everything to elaborate and inaccurate visions. Originally posted by Demas
Meanwhile, everytime he's been "clear" headed, he's come up victorious by far.

Wonder Woman wasn't attempting to even fight Superman. Just stall him. Superman was going ape-shit on her. Wonder Woman was just attempting to get his crazy ass of her and get to Max Lord. It wasn't even truly a battle. How can it be a battle when one opponent isn't attempting to battle her opponent.


Originally posted by Demas
Meanwhile, everytime he's been "clear" headed, he's come up victorious by far.

Untrue. They've stalemated each other every time barring alternate realities. Never have they ever truly attempted battle each other. Either because of mind control, deception or simply because of disagreement.


Originally posted by Demas
Research is fine... bowing down in adoring worship is a whole other ballgame.

Which is clearly what you're doing. Don't label as fanboy when you don't even have a slightest clue of who and what WW is.

Wow, look at the Drooling Fanboy!



Yet we've seen the Lasso and the bracelet's brake in JLA as well.



Actually those are borrowed guidelines. Frankly the repeated defeat of Wonder Woman speaks for itself and recognizes her place in the DCU heirarchy both editorially, in comics, and amongst the fans. Only the hearts of drooling goddess worshippers does she have the tools to create a victory.



Wishful thinking. I can think of several recent WW stories where, if true, the plot would be significantly simplified by tying the tiara to the end of her lasso and asking it to fetch... instead, we see the physicality involved making it possible to dodge. Clinging to an ability granted years ago and never seen since is like claiming the X-Mansion is still invisible to detection based on a 60's blessing.

Continuity goes to the victors... much like Superman's continual superiority over Wonder Woman. Oh well, maybe one day the world will see things the way you do, Fanboy.

Well probably not. Until then we can wait confidently for Supes to defeat WW yet again.

Regarding S/B, not even considering your ridiculous out-of-context protests, let's consider how "out of canon" S/B is, let's see:

Captain Atom's death/departure.
Lex Luthor goes mad and vacates the presidency.
Crisis first mentioned.
Supergirl returns to the DCU.
Kryptonite returns to the Earth.
Darksied's imprisonment.

Yup entirely self-contained with no impact on significant plot-points in the current DCU... obviously a series of non-canon tales!

The best thing is that, post-S/B#15, Supes and Batman retained their memories, which means Superman still has the precise tactical knowledge of how to completely defeat a bloodlusted Wonder Woman. Her chances are looking worse and worse.

Originally posted by Demas
Wow, look at the Drooling Fanboy!

Call me that again and I will be forced to tell a moderator. And believe me I have several mods in my pocket...



Originally posted by Demas
Yet we've seen the Lasso and the bracelet's brake in JLA as well.

The bracelets have never been broken in JLA. Lying about events that never happened is quite pathetic.

The lasso was broken not by physical force. You clearly didn't read the story correctly and judging by your intelligence this is not surprising.

The lasso was broken because quite simply Diana lied to herself. As the Goddess of Truth, this is a big no-no. Since the lasso is merely conduit for Diana as the Spirit of Truth and the Absolute Truth, the lasso was broken. Unfortunately this caused creation itself to break down. But no the lasso has never been broken by physical force and this is the only time in actual canon that the lasso has broken. And it certainly wasn't by Superman


Originally posted by Demas
Actually those are borrowed guidelines.

Borrowed guidelines? It's the rules of the forum. We ignore the events of PIS, CIS, or simply bad writing when it comes to rumbles. If you want to quote bad writing, and SvFL events be my guest but your credibility will be shot to hell.


Originally posted by Demas
Frankly the repeated defeat of Wonder Woman speaks for itself and recognizes her place in the DCU heirarchy both editorially, in comics, and amongst the fans.

"Her place"? What in heaven's name does that mean? I'm not even sure I want to know. A little sexist perhaps.

She has no repeated defeats canonically against Superman. It has always been a stalemate. The rule of thumb for DC is: Superman can't lose to a WOMAN, and we certainly can't have Wonder Woman beating our golden boy and we can't show Superman beating UP a woman...so let's just stalemate them everytime. And that's what they did. Hell their first fight in 1969 was shown to be stalemate. It's simply tradition.

And we can simply apply to this to Wolverine. He's the beloved of editorials, in comics and amongst fans. And we continually see him defeating characters he shouldn't be able to beat or beating characters easily he should beat easily. Same thing applies. And it doesn't make any less of PIS or any less ridiculous.

By your logic, Wolverine can beat Superman because he's the most popular character nowadays.

Originally posted by Demas
Only the hearts of drooling goddess worshippers does she have the tools to create a victory.

She most certainly does. You don't think so because A) You obviously have disdain for Wonder Woman barring your comments of drooling fanboys, her having "her place" and your utter lack of knowledge about the character. Is Superman more likely to win in a straight-out fight? Yes. Is it a curbstomp like you believe? Absolutely not. This is an even battle that could go either way. Superman has the tools to beat Wonder Woman and Wonder Woman has the tools to beat Superman. You're just to blind to see thus.


Originally posted by Demas
Wishful thinking.

You don't think at all, honey....

Originally posted by Demas
I can think of several recent WW stories where, if true, the plot would be significantly simplified by tying the tiara to the end of her lasso and asking it to fetch...instead, we see the physicality involved making it possible to dodge.

I can think of several Superman stories where Superman could just simply speedblitz his opponent. And yet he has problems with Toyman and Metallo....

I can also think of several Green Lantern stories where Green Lantern can simply use his ring to turn of his opponent's powers. And yet he problems with a mutated shark.

I can also think of nearly of every Flash story that doesn't contain Zoom or Reverse Flash that Flash could simply speedblitz every opponent he meets. But he has problems with a guy who throws boomerangs...

As you can see this is what we call PIS. Plot Induced Stupidity. And DC is FILLED with it. The logical explanation you posted as no weight whatsoever for your "argument".


Originally posted by Demas
Clinging to an ability granted years ago and never seen since is like claiming the X-Mansion is still invisible to detection based on a 60's blessing.

Oh please. Diana used this maneuver dozens of times. Most recently against Rama and Devastation and Cheetah. Again, you're not making any sense and failing miserably.

Thor has not shown the ability to absorb energy attacks or stop time with his hammer for years. And yet many posters still argue these tactics. Why? Because they're part of his character. And viable in rumbles.



Originally posted by Demas
Continuity goes to the victors... much like Superman's continual superiority over Wonder Woman.

Again, you're sprouting nonsense out of nowhere. Wonder Woman and Superman have stalemated each other continuously over the years. Either you're reading fan fiction...

Continuity goes to the victors? Let's see. We continuously see Batman manhandle Superman. We also continuously see Wolverine beat or stalemate the Hulk. Can they realistically beat either of these characters? No. But we see it continuously happen. As you can see, your "logic" fails miserably. You simply don't understand the purpose of this battle.


Originally posted by Demas
Oh well, maybe one day the world will see things the way you do, Fanboy.

It's Draco69. Fanboy is the other guy.

Actually several people have. Darkcrawler. Ion. Dizzle. They agree that it could go either way and WW is most certainly capable of beating Superman and vice versa.


Originally posted by Demas
Well probably not. Until then we can wait confidently for Supes to defeat WW yet again.

Not before we see Batman hand Superman his ass.

Originally posted by Demas
Regarding S/B, not even considering your ridiculous out-of-context protests, let's consider how "out of canon" S/B is, let's see:

Captain Atom's death/departure.
Lex Luthor goes mad and vacates the presidency.
Crisis first mentioned.
Supergirl returns to the DCU.
Kryptonite returns to the Earth.
Darksied's imprisonment.

Yup entirely self-contained with no impact on significant plot-points in the current DCU... obviously a series of non-canon tales!


Those are all significant events that took place in DCU correct. For story purposes only however. But there are other events that are simply mars of DC continuity which to many comic fans discredits the book's credibility in rumbles which makes Superman/Batman USELESS in Versus Forum. Marvel's Contest of Champions II was also a canonical event that happened for story purposes and had several long-lasting effects. But we simply ignore here? Why? Because we see Black Widow beating X-Force and Wonder Man as well as Wolverine beating Hercules with bone claws. Similarly Superman/Batman is a credible as Spider-Man defeating Firelord (which is also canon) Why?

We see:

Batman defeating Lady Shiva in one move.
Batman defeating Black Lightening with a tazer
Batman defeating Green Lantern with a freeze beam
Batman turning Captain Marvel back to a child with a simple kick
Wonder Woman deflecting Darkseid's Omega Beams (they should have simply gone AROUND her)
Batman somehow surviving a beating from Darkseid. And no, wearing a armour worn by his very soldiers won't protect Batman.
Batman somehow lasting for more than 3 seconds with Wonder Woman in combat.
Superman defeating Darkseid where Darkseid simply ignores the fact that he has reality-manipulation powers, teleportation and other goodies.
Superman possessing "Boom-Tube" vision
Batman defeating Solomon Grundy (who regular schools the entire Justice Society) with nerve pinch and gas (he's DEAD he doesn't need to breath)

THIS is why S/B is regulary ridiculed in rumble forums. It's just so laughable on many levels. Which is why we all take S/B with a grain of salt. We recognize the validity of the story...but we scoff at the quality or validity of the fights that take place in the comic.



Originally posted by Demas
The best thing is that, post-S/B#15, Supes and Batman retained their memories, which means Superman still has the precise tactical knowledge of how to completely defeat a bloodlusted Wonder Woman. Her chances are looking worse and worse.

Please. He clearly took down a far, less powerful Wonder Woman. (Which makes me wonder. Why would the Legion feel it was necessary to get rid of Aquaman but not Wonder Woman who is a far worse threat?) She clearly had no superspeed (or Batman would have died in two second flats) Her durability was crap (which is why Batman actually hurt with a karate chop). And her bracelets obviously weren't forged from the Shield of Aegis wielded by Zeus which survived assaults from the Spectre himself.

I just find completely hilarious you're trying to argue the validity of Superman/Batman in the Versus Forum. What's next DK2?

1) The only use of the word Fanboy in this thread should be in reference to said member.

2) This isn't just WW vs Superman; Superboy, Troia and Wondergirl are their too.

3) CIS is off but they still fight in character, and the rules of the forum apply. Incidents that occur in stories which impact on continuity are not always considered canon if they contravene the rules of this forum, particularly in regard to CIS, PIS and SvFL.

Now on the actual topic.

Originally posted by Draco69
On to the bracelets. THERE. IS. NO. WAY. IN. HELL. Superman could EVER break those damn bracelets.

Why? The ENTIRE Greek Pantheon (full of Skyfather-level beings) opened a can of whup-ass on those bracelets by unleashing ALL their power collectively and combining it into one massive beam. The beam was described as "infinite power". Such blast would destroy planets and entire galaxies. But the bracelets? Not a scratch. The beam reflected of her bracelets and WW was left unharmed.
Is this what you're referring to?
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4479/ww21deflection25hf6tn.th.jpghttp://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9420/ww21deflection34yb1wm.th.jpg
http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/4421/ww21deflection40gj8eh.th.jpghttp://img295.imageshack.us/img295/6907/ww21deflection53pu9tj.th.jpg

If everyone is fighting to full capability? Superboy and Superman take this one in five heartbeats. (I mean, there are five fighters....)

Unlikely. Wonder Woman can handle Superman alone for extended periods of time while Troia and Wonder Girl curbstomp Superboy. Then they all gangbang Superman.

And unfortunately Troia is now a Titanese Goddess of the Moon which she got a rather massive upgrade. Magic and Supermen don't mix.

If this was just Wonder Woman and Wonder Girl vs. Superman and Superboy than I would go with the Supermen because Wonder Girl would fall to Superboy and WW would be forced to face both Superman and his heir, which is a battle she can't win.

Troia dramatically tips the scales in favor of the WWomen.

Originally posted by Draco69
Then they all gangbang Superman.Quoted for posterity. droolio

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Quoted for posterity. droolio
Superman would be the winner in such a case.

I'm not the biggest DC fan, I enjoy Marvel quite a bit more (stop throwing things at me), but as far as DC and JLA go? Wonder Woman has got to be one of my favorite super heros. Even with a (notably massive - I LOATH superman) bias toward her, I will not disillusion myself for a mere moment to imagine that she could ever compete with the boy in blue.

Originally posted by Soljer
I'm not the biggest DC fan, I enjoy Marvel quite a bit more (stop throwing things at me), but as far as DC and JLA go? Wonder Woman has got to be one of my favorite super heros. Even with a (notably massive - I LOATH superman) bias toward her, I will not disillusion myself for a mere moment to imagine that she could ever compete with the boy in blue.

Your massive bias is without sufficient knowledge then... (no offense meant... But Diana's a friggin beast. Good looking beast, but still a beast)

I still think fighting skills and her already comparable stats sshould get Diana a very slight majority. Throwing in the equipment, she should get a solid 6/10. Superman is not even twice as good as her in his only real advantages: Strength, speed, and durability. Diana has one of his quasi-weaknesses, magic, and a tremendous amount of fighting skills, which have proven sufficient to handle situations that appear even more one sided than this.

The Women stomp the men very easily as well... As Draco said, Superboy has absolutely no chance against Troia and Wondergirl.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Your massive bias is without sufficient knowledge then...

Reading for comprehension. Look in context, my bias is in Wonder Woman's FAVOR. You're telling me I am biased toward Wonder Woman without sufficient knowledge? Okay...

Furthermore, bias is usually defined as UNFAIR preference for something due to prejudice. I'm prejudiced toward Wonder Woman and against Superman in this fight. Is that unfair to Superman? Yeah, but even when things turn the wheel into Diana's favor, I'm not so blind as to be unable to tell you that this is a curbstomp. Superman Wins.

Originally posted by Draco69
Wonder Woman merely has to pray to the Godwave itself. Not the Greek Gods (in that issue she got the Godwave resided in the Greek Pantheon). The REAL Godwave is the source of all superpowers. The progenitor of the Speed Force. The reason Supermen, Wonder Women, and superpowers exist at all. Diana only requires a small moment to do so. Superman has to fly to the sun, sit there for a while, come out and THAN fight. Diana merely has to think "Give me the Godwave".

Can Diana only use it for a limited time? Yes. A few seconds at most. But when you're the most powerful being in existence, time is irrelevant. WW just blips him out of existance.

Diana does not merely think give me the godwave. The issue where she called it had her going at it for 2 1/2 pages of groaning and trying to control the power. If she didn't do all that concentation and whatnot she would have exploded. Superman doesn't need to sit in the sun for any great amount of time to take out WW. He needed to sit there for a while during OWAW because he was fighting a DEVOURER OF GALAXIES. He can just fly through and then accelerate to past light speed and blitz diana while she's groaning about the power of godwave.

But is WW vulnerable while she is gathering the Godwave?
Canneling that much energy could offer her some added protection. Does any one know for sure?

Originally posted by Soljer
Reading for comprehension. Look in context, my bias is in Wonder Woman's FAVOR. You're telling me I am biased toward Wonder Woman without sufficient knowledge? Okay...

Furthermore, bias is usually defined as UNFAIR preference for something due to prejudice. I'm prejudiced toward Wonder Woman and against Superman in this fight. Is that unfair to Superman? Yeah, but even when things turn the wheel into Diana's favor, I'm not so blind as to be unable to tell you that this is a curbstomp. Superman Wins.

I know who you like more, but I disagree with you all the same. I said "massive bias" because I was quoting your own words... Superman has NEVER actually "curbstomped" over Diana. He always gets the upper hand, but she always puts up a VERY good fight. Now, what happens when she USES some fighting skills? Pulls a block or two, maybe a pressure point strike here or there... She depowered herself and defeated Shiva, Killer Croc, and Cheetah simultaneously for training. She's at least top 5 in DC, and only because of people like Batman 1,000,000 and Karate Kid. She also has a fair arsenal of magical weaponry at her disposal. The tiara CAN cut Superman. What happens if she actually throws it to kill?

He dies?

Good answer.

Originally posted by Dizzle
I know who you like more, but I disagree with you all the same. I said "massive bias" because I was quoting your own words... Superman has NEVER actually "curbstomped" over Diana. He always gets the upper hand, but she always puts up a VERY good fight. Now, what happens when she USES some fighting skills? Pulls a block or two, maybe a pressure point strike here or there... She depowered herself and defeated Shiva, Killer Croc, and Cheetah simultaneously for training. She's at least top 5 in DC, and only because of people like Batman 1,000,000 and Karate Kid. She also has a fair arsenal of magical weaponry at her disposal. The tiara CAN cut Superman. What happens if she actually throws it to kill?

What happens when superman get's ready to kill? We have seen wonder woman at that state, but never superman. As much as the writer's tell us that he is ready, he really isn't. Superman can never be in that state. That is the whole point of his character. In the end, he can never kill someone with intent. We don't know what superman TRUELY bloodlusted can do, but we can judge off stats. And by and large, superman is a notch above. If somebody managed to push big blue over the top, superman doesn't just get ready to kill 1 person. Superman's bloodlust would be him not caring about anybody. Imagine what someone like him could do with homicidal rage and absolutely no moral limits. At his current post-crisis level, he can't chuck planets like before, but you can bet he'd be pissed enough to drop the moon on the earth. No more wonder women.

Originally posted by cheap cabbage
What happens when superman get's ready to kill? We have seen wonder woman at that state, but never superman. As much as the writer's tell us that he is ready, he really isn't. Superman can never be in that state. That is the whole point of his character. In the end, he can never kill someone with intent. We don't know what superman TRUELY bloodlusted can do, but we can judge off stats. And by and large, superman is a notch above. If somebody managed to push big blue over the top, superman doesn't just get ready to kill 1 person. Superman's bloodlust would be him not caring about anybody. Imagine what someone like him could do with homicidal rage and absolutely no moral limits. At his current post-crisis level, he can't chuck planets like before, but you can bet he'd be pissed enough to drop the moon on the earth. No more wonder women.
He can't drop a moon, dude. Get your head out of your ass. Stop hiding behind the "He holds BAKZORZ!!". It's never valid, it will never BE valid.


WW and SM are almost equal, except she's better in combat and better weapons and he's slightly stronger and slight faster.

Originally posted by long pig
He can't drop a moon, dude. Get your head out of your ass. Stop hiding behind the "He holds BAKZORZ!!". It's never valid, it will never BE valid.


WW and SM are almost equal, except she's better in combat and better weapons and he's slightly stronger and slight faster.

Warworld> moon. I win.

Originally posted by long pig
He can't drop a moon, dude. Get your head out of your ass. Stop hiding behind the "He holds BAKZORZ!!". It's never valid, it will never BE valid.


WW and SM are almost equal, except she's better in combat and better weapons and he's slightly stronger and slight faster.



Long Pig is always the voice of reason

Originally posted by cheap cabbage
Warworld> moon. I win.

He was amped to a HUGE level when he pushed Warworld.

Fighting skills>Random punching.
Magic princess crown>Superman.

Why does everybody use the Tiara cut his throat deal? He was mind controled at the time. If Max wasn't f*cking with his head it would be well within his speed level to dodge such a attack.

I'll give you guys WW is close to him in strength. But speed and durabitly are not even close.

If anybody says she is please back it up.

http://www.starnet-database.com/dbase_deo/analyses/appendices/ratings1.html

I think most people will agree that she is a step below Superman in terms of druability and speed but her fighting skill should make up the difference

Draco and Dizzle dropped potent ether on this thread. By the way, WonderWomen win. And S/B is laughable. Quick question...If Superman is as weak to magic as any other mortal, why would he be able to bend/ break her gauntlets?? Can i?? Can you?? If not, and he is supposed to be as vulnerable as i am, him breaking them is bad writing. Magic should nullify his powers against it, just like it nullifys his defensive aura.
Contradictions abound, ehhh?
Just my two cents

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Why does everybody use the Tiara cut his throat deal? He was mind controled at the time. If Max wasn't f*cking with his head it would be well within his speed level to dodge such a attack.

I'll give you guys WW is close to him in strength. But speed and durabitly are not even close.

If anybody says she is please back it up.
According to Draco, the tiara can't be dodged because it would hone in on Superman. That sounds like it would provide for a pretty good distraction at the very least (chasing Superman all over the place and all).

Originally posted by Hit and Run
According to Draco, the tiara can't be dodged because it would hone in on Superman. That sounds like it would provide for a pretty good distraction at the very least (chasing Superman all over the place and all). That does not make it true.

Can anybody prove this?

Besides the guy can catch speeding bullets easy. I think he can catch it and smash it like he did the bracelets.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
That does not make it true.

Can anybody prove this?

Besides the guy can catch speeding bullets easy. I think he can catch it and smash it like he did the bracelets.
Why can't it be true? I admit that I don't read much of Wonder Woman and don't know everything about her, so I can't prove it. But ask Draco nicely and he may tell you an issue where the tiara targeting someone happened.

Also, the tiara is magic and bullets aren't. Based off what I heard so far, I believe that if Superman tries to catch the tiara, he would lose a hand or two.

And Draco already discussed how Superman breaking the bracelets was very bad writing. They stood up to the power of the Greek gods themselves without any damage.

Superman caught WW's sword in IC #3 when she was gonna kill Mongul with it.

It's magical.

These arguments are getting us nowhere. We need a poll. All for reposting this with a poll?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Superman caught WW's sword in IC #3 when she was gonna kill Mongul with it.

It's magical. She swung the sword at Mongul's head at a relatively normal speed, he caught between his palms, she sliced his palms when she withdrew the sword... all that proves is he's vulnerable to her weapons.

EDIT: Oops thought you were referring to IC #1, haven't read IC #3 yet.

EDIT2: Wait you are referring to IC #1...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
She swung the sword at Mongul's head at a relatively normal speed, he caught between his palms, she sliced his palms when she withdrew the sword... all that proves is he's vulnerable to her weapons.
EDIT - Better than I said it.

Originally posted by The Ion
The sword sliced his hands. Didn't she pull it though?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
She swung the sword at Mongul's head at a relatively normal speed, he caught between his palms, she sliced his palms when she withdrew the sword... all that proves is he's vulnerable to her weapons.

EDIT: Oops thought you were referring to IC #1, haven't read IC #3 yet. You guys need to realize that WonderWoman is pretty strong and can swing her magical sword pretty damm hard.

Supes stopped it with his bare hands. Sure he was cut. But it healed in seconds.

Uh... I think most people here realise Wonder Woman is strong...

I recall the tiara has decapitated Gods...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Uh... I think most people here realise Wonder Woman is strong...

I recall the tiara has decapitated Gods... I know. But stopping the momentum of her magical sword with his open palms would surely be harder than catching her tiara.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I know. But stopping the momentum of her magical sword with his open palms would surely be harder than catching her tiara. How so? He clapped his hands on the flat edges of the sword that was moving at no great speed. Again the tiara has decapitated gods... I don't think trying to catch it would be a good idea.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
How so? He clapped his hands on the flat edges of the sword that was moving at no great speed. Once again. It's not the speed it's the power behind the sword he stopped.

What would have happened if he put his hand in the path of the sword's sharp edge rather than the flat ones...?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
What would have happened if he put his hand in the path of the sword's sharp edge rather than the flat ones...? That didn't happen for a reason. Superman has pretty keen reflexes and senses I think.

I don't know anything about the new superman but the superman that juggled planets and moved the earth would crack her skull in one punch. One storm cloud weigh's 12 billion pounds, which I am absolutely certain of. Now thiking of that compared to all the ocean's and rock material on Earth, I would imagine one storm cloud is a trillionth of the Earth's actual weight. That number I am not certain of, but that doesn't matter considering superman could move the earth while wonderwoman couldn't lift up 35 elephants. Wonder woman is class 90 and an elephant weighs 3 tons, 35 times 3 equals 105 tons(which is 210,000 pounds so even if she could, it is no where near the pre-crisis superman's strength. It doesn't even get close to anything close to it. I only speak facts so if i am not sure of something I just let it go either way) . So the pre-crisis superman that moved the earth and juggled planets would crack all three of their skulls in seconds while the other two enjoyed a cigarette. That is not biased from a superman fan i believe he was overpowered being the first superhero, and that wonderwoman is sexy as hell for a cartoon character, but i gotta go with the facts. I am not certain how the new superman would do? If he was actually only class 100 and couldn't move the earth anymore I would say it would be close with his heat vision and her braces being the biggest factors. I guess he could knock her down with his wind breath and then move in at however fast he could move(is it still the speed of light?) and stomp her head or get her with his heat vision. But I don't know the powers of the new superman so i guess that could go either way between them.

Check both their respect threads, and judge for yourself.
Supes is still quite above her in power, but I haven't decided the winner to this battle as of yet.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Once again. It's not the speed it's the power behind the sword he stopped.
If she swung her sword as fast as she could, do you think Superman would have been able to stop it like he did? I mean, without losing any fingers or anything?

Originally posted by cheap cabbage
These arguments are getting us nowhere. We need a poll. All for reposting this with a poll?
Are you talking about the real fight in this thread or the fight that people have been debating for the past few pages?

Remember, this the three Wonder Women vs the two Supermen(even if it did quickly turn into Wonder Woman vs Superman). Even if Superman was beating Wonder Woman, the other two wonder girls would join in after they quickly defeated Superboy, and even Superman cannot beat all three.

Originally posted by cheap cabbage
Diana does not merely think give me the godwave. The issue where she called it had her going at it for 2 1/2 pages of groaning and trying to control the power. If she didn't do all that concentation and whatnot she would have exploded. Superman doesn't need to sit in the sun for any great amount of time to take out WW. He needed to sit there for a while during OWAW because he was fighting a DEVOURER OF GALAXIES. He can just fly through and then accelerate to past light speed and blitz diana while she's groaning about the power of godwave.

*sigh*

For heaven's sake, she was petitioning the gods themselves for the the Godwave that resides in Olympus. Not the sum totality of the Godwave. Merely a piece of the pie, since the Godwave resides in all superpowered persons and all godly pantheons.

Second, you're grossly over exaggerating what happened. She was ALREADY in possession of the Godwave and was shown stomping Rama into the ground. The transition of the Godwave was INSTANTANEOUS She was "groaning" because it was rather difficult to control the powers of creation itself, which is understandable.

Diana prays. She gets the Godwave. She blips Superman out of existence. Superman however has to fly to the sun, charge up his reserves, than come back. As shown many times in the past "sundipping" is not an instantneous process. He requires some time to become charged past his primary reserves' maximum.

Superman can sit there in the sun for a million years and he STILL wouldn't be powerful enough. The Godwave's power is so great the Angel Host feared it would be powerful enough to kill the Presence itself.

Can Diana only wield it for a short amount time? Yes. But when you wield the powers of creation itself that Heaven itself fears, time has no meaning and can be stretch to eternity. WW remakes reality so Superman never landed in Kansas but rather an active volcano.

Originally posted by Draco69


Can Diana only wield it for a short amount time? Yes. But when you wield the powers of creation itself that Heaven itself fears, time has no meaning and can be stretch to eternity. WW remakes reality so Superman never landed in Kansas but rather an active volcano.

Originally posted by Draco69
WW remakes reality so Superman never landed in Kansas but rather an active volcano.

Originally posted by Soljer
Reading for comprehension. Look in context, my bias is in Wonder Woman's FAVOR. You're telling me I am biased toward Wonder Woman without sufficient knowledge? Okay...

Furthermore, bias is usually defined as UNFAIR preference for something due to prejudice. I'm prejudiced toward Wonder Woman and against Superman in this fight. Is that unfair to Superman? Yeah, but even when things turn the wheel into Diana's favor, I'm not so blind as to be unable to tell you that this is a curbstomp. Superman Wins.

Superman has a better chance to win, that much is true. The odds are more in his favor. But this is certainly not a curbstomp as much as you would believe anymore would it be for Martian Manhunter or Captain Marvel. Superman would be facing a being who's strength and speed is a small notch below his, possessing numerous magical artifacts and whose fighting skills is nearly unparalleled by anyone on Earth or for that matter in the known DC Universe. This battle would be as close as Captain America vs. Batman or Green Arrow vs. Hawkeye.

Originally posted by TheKahn
But is WW vulnerable while she is gathering the Godwave?
Canneling that much energy could offer her some added protection. Does any one know for sure?

Depends. If she's smart, she would just cross her bracelets and let herself be protected by an impenetrable forcefield a league of Skyfather beings were not capable getting through even at their best.

If she's dumb, she would pray yoga style on rice paddy complete with candle incense.

It's doesn't take that long. She simply concentrates and says something equivalent to "May I have the Godwave, so I can can Superman's ass, please?"

Originally posted by cheap cabbage
What happens when superman get's ready to kill? We have seen wonder woman at that state, but never superman. As much as the writer's tell us that he is ready, he really isn't. Superman can never be in that state. That is the whole point of his character. In the end, he can never kill someone with intent. We don't know what superman TRUELY bloodlusted can do, but we can judge off stats. And by and large, superman is a notch above. If somebody managed to push big blue over the top, superman doesn't just get ready to kill 1 person. Superman's bloodlust would be him not caring about anybody. Imagine what someone like him could do with homicidal rage and absolutely no moral limits. At his current post-crisis level, he can't chuck planets like before, but you can bet he'd be pissed enough to drop the moon on the earth. No more wonder women.

Here's a question: Have you ever seen Wonder Woman use her superspeed to open a can of whoop ass, Dragon Ball Z style? Or using her lasso to burn people alive? Or using her lasso as a la weed ripper to rip limbs from people? Or use the Godwave to blip people from existence? Or using her martial art training to induce seizures via pressure points and nerve strikes? Or using her tiara as a claw to rip out internal organs? Or using the Invisible Plane to mindwipe people? Or using her lasso to strangle people to death? No? Than you haven't seen a bloodlusted WW. You've seen an angry WW. You've seen a pissed-off WW. But you haven't seen anything close to a truly bloodlusted WW.

You keep picturing a merciless, speedblitzing Superman in a homicidal rage. However you fail to grasp a merciless, speedblitzing Wonder Woman as well. Which is the problem. For many people...

And no, Superman can drop the moon on the Earth for heaven's sake he needed his JLA teammates help to even move it.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Superman caught WW's sword in IC #3 when she was gonna kill Mongul with it.

It's magical.

She MEANT for him to catch it. You didn't read it correctly. She was testing Superman and Batman. She was right: They DID see her as a bloodthirsty warrior. They failed the test. Diana would NEVER decipitate a downed foe that poses no more of a threat.

Originally posted by superman420sexy
I don't know anything about the new superman but the superman that juggled planets and moved the earth would crack her skull in one punch. One storm cloud weigh's 12 billion pounds, which I am absolutely certain of. Now thiking of that compared to all the ocean's and rock material on Earth, I would imagine one storm cloud is a trillionth of the Earth's actual weight. That number I am not certain of, but that doesn't matter considering superman could move the earth while wonderwoman couldn't lift up 35 elephants. Wonder woman is class 90 and an elephant weighs 3 tons, 35 times 3 equals 105 tons(which is 210,000 pounds so even if she could, it is no where near the pre-crisis superman's strength. It doesn't even get close to anything close to it. I only speak facts so if i am not sure of something I just let it go either way) . So the pre-crisis superman that moved the earth and juggled planets would crack all three of their skulls in seconds while the other two enjoyed a cigarette. That is not biased from a superman fan i believe he was overpowered being the first superhero, and that wonderwoman is sexy as hell for a cartoon character, but i gotta go with the facts. I am not certain how the new superman would do? If he was actually only class 100 and couldn't move the earth anymore I would say it would be close with his heat vision and her braces being the biggest factors. I guess he could knock her down with his wind breath and then move in at however fast he could move(is it still the speed of light?) and stomp her head or get her with his heat vision. But I don't know the powers of the new superman so i guess that could go either way between them.

God I hate newbies....especially immature twelve-year old newbies. I have to the whole goddamned process again.

Originally posted by Draco69
She MEANT for him to catch it. You didn't read it correctly. She was testing Superman and Batman. She was right: They DID see her as a bloodthirsty warrior. They failed the test. Diana would NEVER decipitate a downed foe that poses no more of a threat.
Where'd that info come from?

Originally posted by long pig
Where'd that info come from?

Greg Rucka in Newsrama. He didn't say it outright because apparently the moment has some significance to later events. He said in word: What we saw was a SUPPOSED intent of what she was going to do, not actually what she truly intended to do.

Diana simply would never kill a downed, helpless enemy that posed no more of a threat. She was testing them both. If they truly knew her, her sword would have never have struck Mongul. But they failed the test. A bit of dialogue clues as well:

Batman: "What are you doing?"

WW: "What did you THINK I was going to do?"

She sliced Superman's hands out of anger. Anger that her best friend had so grossly misjudged who she is and what her moral standing is. As Diana said in IC#3, Bruce and Superman see her nothing more as a bloodthirsty warrior with no moral qualms whatsoever. Which simply isn't true.

Okay, so general consensus is with the Wonder Women?

New game: Remove Wonder Girl.

Wonder Woman/Troia vs Superman/Superboy. Same stipulations.

Without the numbers advantage do the Wonder Women still win?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Okay, so general consensus is with the Wonder Women?

New game: Remove Wonder Girl.

Wonder Woman/Troia vs Superman/Superboy. Same stipulations.

Without the numbers advantage do the Wonder Women still win?
I think so. Troia would likely demolish Superboy. Then its 2v1.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Okay, so general consensus is with the Wonder Women?

New game: Remove Wonder Girl.

Wonder Woman/Troia vs Superman/Superboy. Same stipulations.

Without the numbers advantage do the Wonder Women still win?

Most likely. Current Troia would curbstomp Superboy while WW handles Superman. Then they both tagteam Superman. As the Goddess of the Moon, she's quite possibly the most powerful out of all of them but her limits have no been shown. She has new nifty powers though. MAGICAL powers. Magical GODLY powers.

Originally posted by Draco69
Most likely. Current Troia would curbstomp Superboy while WW handles Superman. Then they both tagteam Superman. As the Goddess of the Moon, she's quite possibly the most powerful out of all of them but her limits have no been shown. She has new nifty powers though. MAGICAL powers. Magical GODLY powers.
You say it better than me. You have quite the way with words.

Originally posted by The Ion
You say it better than me. You have quite the way with words.

Originally posted by Draco69
*sigh*

For heaven's sake, she was petitioning the gods themselves for the the Godwave that resides in Olympus. Not the sum totality of the Godwave. Merely a piece of the pie, since the Godwave resides in all superpowered persons and all godly pantheons.

Second, you're grossly over exaggerating what happened. She was ALREADY in possession of the Godwave and was shown stomping Rama into the ground. The transition of the Godwave was INSTANTANEOUS She was "groaning" because it was rather difficult to control the powers of creation itself, which is understandable.

Diana prays. She gets the Godwave. She blips Superman out of existence. Superman however has to fly to the sun, charge up his reserves, than come back. As shown many times in the past "sundipping" is not an instantneous process. He requires some time to become charged past his primary reserves' maximum.

Superman can sit there in the sun for a million years and he STILL wouldn't be powerful enough. The Godwave's power is so great the Angel Host feared it would be powerful enough to kill the Presence itself.

Can Diana only wield it for a short amount time? Yes. But when you wield the powers of creation itself that Heaven itself fears, time has no meaning and can be stretch to eternity. WW remakes reality so Superman never landed in Kansas but rather an active volcano.

Cute.

This power would have been good to pull out during the Imperiex saga, Doomdays wars, Infinite crisis(currently), Heaven invading earth, Parallax, Mageddon, etc...

Whats her reason for not using it during emergency situations such as those? Is she limited in some way to how she may use that power?

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Cute.

This power would have been good to pull out during the Imperiex saga, Doomdays wars, Infinite crisis(currently), Heaven invading earth, Parallax, Mageddon, etc...

Whats her reason for not using it during emergency situations such as those? Is she limited in some way to how she may use that power?

Simple Answer. The writers simply aren't aware of the power (neither are most comic fans. For heaven's sake I had to tell you all about the Godwave as all of you didn't even know it existed) Grant Morrison didn't. Neither did Joe Kelly. Phil Jimenez (WW fanboy that he is) certainly knew about it but the DC editorials wouldn't go for it.

Think about it. Why would you sell a comic that shows an EPIC threat that threatens everything DC Earth holds dear...and have Wonder Woman wave her magic wand to fix everything. The reaction would be thus:

Wonder Woman destroys Imperiux with the Godwave.

DC fans:



What the f*** is the Godwave?!

General rule of thumb: WW will only use the Godwave in her own book or in the unlikely event a writer with sizeable knowledge about WW's capabilities uses it in crossover for once.

And you KNOW Superman always has to land the final blow on the big bad no matter the circumstances.

Originally posted by Hit and Run
Are you talking about the real fight in this thread or the fight that people have been debating for the past few pages?

Remember, this the three Wonder Women vs the two Supermen(even if it did quickly turn into Wonder Woman vs Superman). Even if Superman was beating Wonder Woman, the other two wonder girls would join in after they quickly defeated Superboy, and even Superman cannot beat all three.

None of the other character's are even a factor. The little horny teens will be too busy making out to fight, and even if they do, they are consistently stupid. Wondergirl charged doomsday head on. Needless to say she nearly died, but it was stupid. Superboy gets his ass handed to him by ROBIN. ROBIN!!! And troia's whole deal is to suffer and die over and over again. She got taken by a superman robot. A ROBOT. superman takes her in 3 seconds.

Originally posted by cheap cabbage
None of the other character's are even a factor. The little horny teens will be too busy making out to fight, and even if they do, they are consistently stupid. Wondergirl charged doomsday head on. Needless to say she nearly died, but it was stupid. Superboy gets his ass handed to him by ROBIN. ROBIN!!! And troia's whole deal is to suffer and die over and over again. She got taken by a superman robot. A ROBOT. superman takes her in 3 seconds.
Troia apparently got a massive upgrade. I don't know how well she'd do against Superman one on one, but even Supes would have trouble getting double-teamed by both Diana and Troia.

I'm not sure if the Godwave is considered part of current continuity, as most writers at the time and even now have completely disregarded it, and it conflicted with MANY other stories.
Hypertime is also disregarded in this way...

I dunno it's messed up.

Originally posted by Hit and Run
Troia apparently got a massive upgrade. I don't know how well she'd do against Superman one on one, but even Supes would have trouble getting double-teamed by both Diana and Troia.

But she's still fated by the gods to die over and over again. Getting killed by superman is as dignified a way as any to go. Its irony at work. Regular troia got destoryed by a worthless superman robot cause she wasn't worth enough for superman to kill. Now that she's been upgraded, she can get killed by the real thing. Superman tosses her into space then beats on wonderwoman. When toria finally loses orbit and falls down, superman runs over and drop a really big rock on her.

Originally posted by cheap cabbage
But she's still fated by the gods to die over and over again. Getting killed by superman is as dignified a way as any to go. Its irony at work. Regular troia got destoryed by a worthless superman robot cause she wasn't worth enough for superman to kill. Now that she's been upgraded, she can get killed by the real thing. Superman tosses her into space then beats on wonderwoman. When toria finally loses orbit and falls down, superman runs over and drop a really big rock on her.
Wow. I guess with that kind of logic, Superman can beat anybody.

Seriously, I know Superman is powerful. Everyone knows that. And he may even take the majority against Wonder Woman one on one. But even he has his limits and I don't see him beating two, maybe even three, powerful, magical beings who are far more skilled than he is.

Originally posted by Hit and Run
Wow. I guess with that kind of logic, Superman can beat anybody.

Seriously, I know Superman is powerful. Everyone knows that. And he may even take the majority against Wonder Woman one on one. But even he has his limits and I don't see him beating two, maybe even three, powerful, magical beings who are far more skilled than he is.

Superman can beat everybody. Don't u know? Superman created the universe. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t386877.html

About his heat vision I don't think it would affect wonder woman because I saw a comic of her, where she was holding some chick by the throat who was protected by a spell, and wonder woman kept holding her even after all of her skin was burnt off of her face and she was a skeleton. But superman prime would just see himself in the past and give superman the strength of being dipped in the sun for centuries by his lightspeed time traveling power heralding

Originally posted by Juntai
I'm not sure if the Godwave is considered part of current continuity, as most writers at the time and even now have completely disregarded it, and it conflicted with MANY other stories.
Hypertime is also disregarded in this way...

I dunno it's messed up.

That's simply because they don't know it exist. Writers focus on Batman and Superman. They totally disregard the history of characters like Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter and WW.

They THINK they know WW but they don't. Their summation of WW is: "flight, speed, bracelets, strength, lasso, got it.' And that's a rather poor summation as would a summation of Thor would be if they only include his hammer and it's ability to control storms.

If they would take the time to actually inform themselves on other characters besides the World's Finest they would create much better stories.

Originally posted by cheap cabbage
Superman can beat everybody. Don't u know? Superman created the universe. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t386877.html

*sigh*

Damn DC editors....

Lucifer and Michael are gonna be so pissed.