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Thor and Bor vs. DC great demi gods
Wonder Woman-Black Adam-Captain Marvel....Thor will summon Loki (classic) if they need help

This is pure blood lusted no PIS CIS BFR to the bloody death war

Adam adds some new faces to his collection of faces.

Team 1 wins.

Captain Marvel and Black Adam win, Wonder Woman... well... she there to I guess.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Captain Marvel and Black Adam win, Wonder Woman... well... she there to I guess. Wonder Woman before upgrades, Well, She's here, Stalemating Captain Marvel in every area, Speed, Striking power, etc.

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/10/1228285_500x742.jpg

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Captain Marvel and Black Adam win, Wonder Woman... well... she there to I guess.

Are you assuming current WW? Classic, she's as strong as Marvel (with nigh-identical power sources to boot, both divine champions), and bloodlusted more dangerous than Billy. Cutting-enchanted tiara, soul-affecting lasso, and all that.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Wonder Woman before upgrades, Well, She's here, Stalemating Captain Marvel in every area, Speed, Striking power, etc.

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/10/1228285_500x742.jpg

Current Wonder Woman is about as much use to Captain Marvel and Black Adam as Luke Cage.

Wonder Woman isn't as strong as Captain Marvel/Black Adam, though. At least not based on their relationship/portrayal as compared to Superman. Wonder Woman is consistently shown and portrayed to be slightly weaker than Superman physically, whereas Captain Marvel routinely is considered to be his equal in that regard among others. Diana's a far better fighter than Billy and has more options physically, but strength wise, she's not his equal.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Wonder Woman isn't as strong as Captain Marvel/Black Adam, though. At least not based on their relationship/portrayal as compared to Superman. Wonder Woman is consistently shown and portrayed to be slightly weaker than Superman physically, whereas Captain Marvel routinely is considered to be his equal in that regard among others. Diana's a far better fighter than Billy and has more options physically, but strength wise, she's not his equal. What Strength feats do Billy have? Now what strength feats do Wonder Woman have? If we are going by portrayals against Superman, Wonder Woman has done more lasting harm to Superman than Billy every has. If I'm wrong, disprove me.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Wonder Woman isn't as strong as Captain Marvel/Black Adam, though. At least not based on their relationship/portrayal as compared to Superman. Wonder Woman is consistently shown and portrayed to be slightly weaker than Superman physically, whereas Captain Marvel routinely is considered to be his equal in that regard among others. Diana's a far better fighter than Billy and has more options physically, but strength wise, she's not his equal.

Overall power wise, they're in the same league.
---

Anyway, srankmissingnin's talking about JMS Wondy, who like he says, is useless.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Current Wonder Woman is about as much use to Captain Marvel and Black Adam as Luke Cage. Current WW isn't a demi-god. The OP says the Demi-gods. I assume he meant pre- WW600.

Someone better tell current WW to hurry up, fall to darkness, and become one of the Morrigan, the dark goddesses of war!

Now that'd be someone to debate.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Current WW isn't a demi-god. The OP says the Demi-gods. I assume he meant pre- WW600.

Technically classic Wonder Woman isn't a demi-god either... and neither are Captain Marvel or Black Adam. Wonder Girl is a demi-god, her father is Zeus, but Wonder Woman, Black Adam are Captain Marvel are avatars or power conduits for the powers of several gods, but they have no divine heritage.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Technically classic Wonder Woman isn't a demi-god either... and neither are Captain Marvel or Black Adam. Wonder Girl is a demi-god, her father is Zeus, but Wonder Woman, Black Adam are Captain Marvel are avatars or power conduits for the powers of several gods, but they have no divine heritage. WW's father is a God. I'm Almost sure that was revealed. And WW was actually A Goddess who demoted herself. That would count as a Demigod as well.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
WW's father is a God. I'm Almost sure that was revealed. And WW was actually A Goddess who demoted herself. That would count as a Demigod as well.

I'm not too familiar with her Pre-Crisis origins, but Post-Crisis she is made from clay. Hippolyta is only her mother in that she shaped the clay, she has no father. She's like a reverse Pinocchio.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
What Strength feats do Billy have? Now what strength feats do Wonder Woman have? If we are going by portrayals against Superman, Wonder Woman has done more lasting harm to Superman than Billy every has. If I'm wrong, disprove me.

Has Wonder Woman ever stalemated Superman in arm wrestling? Has Wonder Woman ever been called Superman's equal in strength and been conceded to have the edge in a straight up physical confrontation? Not to mention that Captain Marvel in the scan is pretty much fresh out of his Post Crisis re-origin which had since been revamped anyway as well as he was not in his right mind.

Diana is a better fighter, has the demeans to depower him via the lasso (asking him who grants his powers ie. Shazam) and is more agile, but physically she's not as strong or as durable as Marvel or Black Adam. As someone who's read every post-crisis Wonder Woman comic to date, I say that pretty comfortably.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Adam adds some new faces to his collection of faces. crylaugh

Team 1 wins pretty comfortably.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Adam adds some new faces to his collection of faces.

Great set.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Has Wonder Woman ever stalemated Superman in arm wrestling? Has Wonder Woman ever been called Superman's equal in strength and been conceded to have the edge in a straight up physical confrontation? Not to mention that Captain Marvel in the scan is pretty much fresh out of his Post Crisis re-origin which had since been revamped anyway as well as he was not in his right mind.

Diana is a better fighter, has the demeans to depower him via the lasso (asking him who grants his powers ie. Shazam) and is more agile, but physically she's not as strong or as durable as Marvel or Black Adam. As someone who's read every post-crisis Wonder Woman comic to date, I say that pretty comfortably. Superman has stated that Captain Marvel and Diana punch the same in so many words. Wonder Woman in a lower form was stalemating CM in the scan. She also has drawn blood from Superman a couple of times. And Caused Superman lasting harm. Something CM has never done.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Wonder Woman isn't as strong as Captain Marvel/Black Adam, though. At least not based on their relationship/portrayal as compared to Superman. Wonder Woman is consistently shown and portrayed to be slightly weaker than Superman physically, whereas Captain Marvel routinely is considered to be his equal in that regard among others. Diana's a far better fighter than Billy and has more options physically, but strength wise, she's not his equal. This is very true. Also team 1 ftw.

Either people are IGNORANT or just playing DUMB to ask 'What Strength feats do Billy have?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Has Wonder Woman ever stalemated Superman in arm wrestling? Has Wonder Woman ever been called Superman's equal in strength and been conceded to have the edge in a straight up physical confrontation? Not to mention that Captain Marvel in the scan is pretty much fresh out of his Post Crisis re-origin which had since been revamped anyway as well as he was not in his right mind.

Diana is a better fighter, has the demeans to depower him via the lasso (asking him who grants his powers ie. Shazam) and is more agile, but physically she's not as strong or as durable as Marvel or Black Adam. As someone who's read every post-crisis Wonder Woman comic to date, I say that pretty comfortably.
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230105_wonder_woman_174_13/

Originally posted by BattleMage
Either people are IGNORANT or just playing DUMB to ask 'What Strength feats do Billy have? Name the feats.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Superman has stated that Captain Marvel and Diana punch the same in so many words. Wonder Woman in a lower form was stalemating CM in the scan. She also has drawn blood from Superman a couple of times. And Caused Superman lasting harm. Something CM has never done.

She's drawn blood as often with her bare fists like Marvel has? Yeah, factoring in her gear, she can do significant damage, but Captain Marvel with his bare hands has drawn blood from Superman on more than one occasion. He's directly stalemated Superman in terms of strength and Superman himself conceded that he views Marvel as his equal in virtually all aspects as well as actually giving him the edge in a head-to-head confrontation. DC's always shown Marvel to be either Superman's equal or a hair or two below him, something Diana hasn't been shown. In a direct encounter based solely on physical might and endurance, Captain Marvel/Black Adam > Wonder Woman.

Do you believe that Wonder Woman can draw blood from Black Adam and trade blow for blow with him and be on even footing afterwards?

As a whole, Diana's stats, skills, and gears, put her in that top-tier league, and while she certainly could beat Captain Marvel one-on-one a bit easier than vice versa, she's not as strong as him physically.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
She's drawn blood as often with her bare fists like Marvel has? Yeah, factoring in her gear, she can do significant damage, but Captain Marvel with his bare hands has drawn blood from Superman on more than one occasion. He's directly stalemated Superman in terms of strength and Superman himself conceded that he views Marvel as his equal in virtually all aspects as well as actually giving him the edge in a head-to-head confrontation. DC's always shown Marvel to be either Superman's equal or a hair or two below him, something Diana hasn't been shown. In a direct encounter based solely on physical might and endurance, Captain Marvel/Black Adam > Wonder Woman.

Do you believe that Wonder Woman can draw blood from Black Adam and trade blow for blow with him and be on even footing afterwards?

As a whole, Diana's stats, skills, and gears, put her in that top-tier league, and while she certainly could beat Captain Marvel one-on-one a bit easier than vice versa, she's not as strong as him physically. You didn't pay attention to the scan I posted did you? Address that one first THEN I'll Address your points here with more scans.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
You didn't pay attention to the scan I posted did you? Address that one first THEN I'll Address your points here with more scans.

With Cheetah? What about it? Superman made a blanket statement in the heat of battle, comparing Cheetah's might to Captain Marvel or Diana, who, aside from J'onn, are two of the most powerful beings on the planet aside from Superman himself. There are more statements supporting Captain Marvel and Superman being equal than Wonder Woman and Superman being equal. Diana has conceded that Superman is stronger than her. Meanwhile, both Marvel and Superman - and DC - continue to believe that Superman and Captain Marvel are pretty damn close to being flat out equal when it comes to strength.

If you think Diana = CM in strength/durability/power/etc, then you also think Diana = Black Adam in those areas, correct?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
With Cheetah? What about it? Superman made a blanket statement in the heat of battle, comparing Cheetah's might to Captain Marvel or Diana, who, aside from J'onn, are two of the most powerful beings on the planet aside from Superman himself. There are more statements supporting Captain Marvel and Superman being equal than Wonder Woman and Superman being equal. Diana has conceded that Superman is stronger than her. Meanwhile, both Marvel and Superman - and DC - continue to believe that Superman and Captain Marvel are pretty damn close to being flat out equal when it comes to strength.

If you think Diana = CM in strength/durability/power/etc, then you also think Diana = Black Adam in those areas, correct? Right now I"m talking about physical attack. Don't bring up too many points at once when I'm addressing one. You said Diana with trinkets would be able to match these guys. The link I posted was str8 from Superman's mouth about PHYSICAL power. He says CM and Diana punch like that beast. Which was able to physically over power him. Address that first. Superman concedes that the beast that physically over powered him had a PUNCH like Diana or Captain Marvel. Now before I post how many times WW has drawn blood from Superman with physical attacks, I want you to address the LINK on it's merits. Not what DC says. The link on it's merits. Explain it.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Right now I"m talking about physical attack. Don't bring up too many points at once when I'm addressing one. You said Diana with trinkets would be able to match these guys. The link I posted was str8 from Superman's mouth about PHYSICAL power. He says CM and Diana punch like that beast. Which was able to physically over power him. Address that first. Superman concedes that the beast that physically over powered him had a PUNCH like Diana or Captain Marvel. Now before I post how many times WW has drawn blood from Superman with physical attacks, I want you to address the LINK on it's merits. Not what DC says. The link on it's merits. Explain it.

Well, if you think Diana and Captain Marvel are really equals in strength based off of that one scan, then you're pretty much also saying that she's equal in strength to both Black Adam and Superman as well. In which case, that's pretty misinformed.

Read the scan you posted:

"That thing has a punch like Diana...or Captain Marvel--!"

Look at how that sentence is written. He mentions Diana first, takes a pause, and then adds "Or Captain Marvel!" He compared the strike to Diana first, considers it, and then concedes it could very well be Marvel-level strength, which is, time and time again, shown to be either equal to Superman or just barely below his own. That's Superman putting their strength in the pecking order it falls down to. Diana's never had that strength comparison to Superman. She's strong, sure, and strong enough to make either Supes or Marv feel it, but she's a level behind them.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Well, if you think Diana and Captain Marvel are really equals in strength based off of that one scan, then you're pretty much also saying that she's equal in strength to both Black Adam and Superman as well. In which case, that's pretty misinformed.

Read the scan you posted:

"That thing has a punch like Diana...or Captain Marvel--!"

Look at how that sentence is written. He mentions Diana first, takes a pause, and then adds "Or Captain Marvel!" He compared the strike to Diana first, considers it, and then concedes it could very well be Marvel-level strength, which is, time and time again, shown to be either equal to Superman or just barely below his own. That's Superman putting their strength in the pecking order it falls down to. Diana's never had that strength comparison to Superman. She's strong, sure, and strong enough to make either Supes or Marv feel it, but she's a level behind them. LOL. Are you kidding me. you are grasping for straws. He didn't pause in the way you are trying to illustrate. Superman didn't put any strength in any pecking order. Is that the best you could come up with? Before I post Diana drawing blood from Superman. You sure this is the best you could come up with? Superman on panel compares the beast strength to Captain Marvel and Diana. Lulz at the attempt to give a pecking order.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
LOL. Are you kidding me. you are grasping for Straws. He didn't pause in the way you are trying to illustrate. Superman didn't put any strength in any pecking order. is that the best you could come up with? Before I post Diana drawing blood from Superman. You sure this is the best you could come up with? Superman on panel compares the beast strength to Captain Marvel and Diana. Lulz at the attempt to give a pecking order.



He paused as he was thinking, hence the "..." in the sentence. He mentioned Diana first, thought more of it, and then mentioned Marvel, who has a multitude of showings which support the Marvel and Superman comparison; hell, it's one of comics biggest and oldest rivalries, and the end result generally winds up with them being equal.

If you seriously believe that they're equals, you believe that she's on par with Black Adam and Superman, and she's not. Diana doesn't think she's as strong as Superman. Superman doesn't think Diana is as strong as he is. Superman thinks Captain Marvel is as strong as he is and is his equal. It's not hard to understand.

Your entire basis of Wonder Woman being equal to strength to Marvel is from War of the Gods, in which Captain Marvel wasn't anywhere close to being in his right mind, and a single panel in which Superman compares the striking power from a short lived villain to Diana and then Captain Marvel. Even if that scan was intended exactly as how you believe it should be, decades worth of stories still point to Captain Marvel being Superman's equal or extremely close rival and Diana being noticeably behind him in that department.

Do you need me to post scans of Diana conceding Kal is stronger than her? And then post scans of Superman admitting Captain Marvel is his equal?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
She's drawn blood as often with her bare fists like Marvel has? Yeah, factoring in her gear, she can do significant damage, but Captain Marvel with his bare hands has drawn blood from Superman on more than one occasion. He's directly stalemated Superman in terms of strength and Superman himself conceded that he views Marvel as his equal in virtually all aspects as well as actually giving him the edge in a head-to-head confrontation. DC's always shown Marvel to be either Superman's equal or a hair or two below him, something Diana hasn't been shown. In a direct encounter based solely on physical might and endurance, Captain Marvel/Black Adam > Wonder Woman.

Do you believe that Wonder Woman can draw blood from Black Adam and trade blow for blow with him and be on even footing afterwards?

As a whole, Diana's stats, skills, and gears, put her in that top-tier league, and while she certainly could beat Captain Marvel one-on-one a bit easier than vice versa, she's not as strong as him physically.
The scan cleary says that it is the concussive force that draws Superman's blood. Her Strength.
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/01/1228247_487x768.jpg

Has Captain Marvel ever landed so many blows to Superman so swiftly and caused him to kneel? Note in this scan Supeman is bleeding from his mouth at this point. Notice the blood dripping from his face. She used physical force to his face.
http://s300.photobucket.com/albums/nn20/GideonsArmy/?action=view&current=job94sk.jpg

Oh since you seem to want to bring up what Superman says about Captain Marvel, Then what about this?
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230095_action7611supesstatementaboutw/

Or the fact that Batman seems to think this..
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/08/07/1230096_300x564.jpg

Originally posted by Comics Queen
The scan cleary says that it is the concussive force that draws Superman's blood. Her Strength.
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/01/1228247_487x768.jpg

Has Captain Marvel ever landed so many blows to Superman so swiftly and caused him to kneel? Note in this scan Supeman is bleeding from his mouth at this point. Notice the blood dripping from his face. She used physical force to his face.
http://s300.photobucket.com/albums/nn20/GideonsArmy/?action=view&current=job94sk.jpg

Oh since you seem to want to bring up what Superman says about Captain Marvel, Then what about this?
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230095_action7611supesstatementaboutw/

Or the fact that Batman seems to think this..
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/08/07/1230096_300x564.jpg

That scan doesn't clearly say anything about concussive force drawing blood. Ringing his ears and stating Gaea knows what else, sure. If you think that's beyond Captain's capabilities, you're mistaken.

Second scan supports Diana's hand to hand prowess more so than her strength. She's more skilled than Superman, Marvel, or Black Adam. And that doesn't support the argument that Diana is equal to Captain Marvel in terms of physical strength.

Third scan? Captain Marvel left the JLA (technically JLI) after a short period of time. If anything, he's more JSA affiliated or a solo hero, Marvel Family not withstanding.

Fourth scan? Considering the lasso has depowered Captain Marvel at least twice, I wouldn't send him after Diana, either. She matches up better against Marvel because of that fact.

None of those scans prove Diana is as strong as Captain Marvel/Black Adam/Superman. It shows people's opinions of her overall and her skill but doesn't prove what you're trying to say.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That scan doesn't clearly say anything about concussive force drawing blood. Ringing his ears and stating Gaea knows what else, sure. If you think that's beyond Captain's capabilities, you're mistaken.

Second scan supports Diana's hand to hand prowess more so than her strength. She's more skilled than Superman, Marvel, or Black Adam. And that doesn't support the argument that Diana is equal to Captain Marvel in terms of physical strength.

Third scan? Captain Marvel left the JLA (technically JLI) after a short period of time. If anything, he's more JSA affiliated or a solo hero, Marvel Family not withstanding.

Fourth scan? Considering the lasso has depowered Captain Marvel at least twice, I wouldn't send him after Diana, either. She matches up better against Marvel because of that fact.

None of those scans prove Diana is as strong as Captain Marvel/Black Adam/Superman. It shows people's opinions of her overall and her skill but doesn't prove what you're trying to say. And yet you have proven nothing of what you say. Superman says Wonder Woman is EARTH"S next line of defense after himself. Not the JLA's next line of defense. Lulz at trying to get around that fact. You missed the point of Diana beating the crap out of Superman in the scan. When has CM ever landed so many blows and made Superman kneel? AFTER a sun amp mind you.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/SupermanandCMarmwrestling.jpg

http://img442.imageshack.us/i/manoftomorrow4p224bg.jpg/

Has Diana ever stalemated Superman in arm wrestling? No.

http://pics.livejournal.com/jeanne_dark/pic/0007txfc

http://pics.livejournal.com/jeanne_dark/pic/0007w6ky

Superman conceding Captain Marvel, in every way, is his equal.


http://img220.imageshack.us/f/sb0415uw3.jpg/

http://img220.imageshack.us/i/sb0416lg3.jpg/

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu355/ankur29/592786-s_b_04_17_super.jpg


Superman conceding Captain Marvel has the edge in a toe-to-toe encounter.

Keeping in mind that's Captain Marvel dealing with a cognizant and very much in his mind Superman.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/SupermanandCMarmwrestling.jpg

http://img442.imageshack.us/i/manoftomorrow4p224bg.jpg/

Has Diana ever stalemated Superman in arm wrestling? No.

http://pics.livejournal.com/jeanne_dark/pic/0007txfc

http://pics.livejournal.com/jeanne_dark/pic/0007w6ky

Superman conceding Captain Marvel, in every way, is his equal.


http://img220.imageshack.us/f/sb0415uw3.jpg/

http://img220.imageshack.us/i/sb0416lg3.jpg/

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu355/ankur29/592786-s_b_04_17_super.jpg


Superman conceding Captain Marvel has the edge in a toe-to-toe encounter.

Keeping in mind that's Captain Marvel dealing with a cognizant and very much in his mind Superman. Arm Wresting scans mean little. Since those were weaker Supermen. The long hair, old drawings seem like Jurgen's Superman. Also, Superman says CM"s powers are magic based, Toe to toe he has the advantage. Nothing to do with raw strength or power. Superman is giving marvel the advantage because of magic. Also that entire fight was a set up. At any rate, Wondy has done better, longer lasting damage to Supers. She's punched Superman further. Kicked him further, landed more disabling blows, Etc.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Arm Wresting scans mean little. Since those were weaker Supermen. The long hair, old drawings seem like Jurgen's Superman. Also, Superman says CM"s powers are magic based, Toe to toe he has the advantage. Nothing to do with raw strength or power. Superman is giving marvel the advantage because of magic.

So you're going to dismiss all of those scans? You still haven't shown Diana has ever in her career stalemated Superman in a direct case of strength pitted against strength. Captain Marvel has. Twice. And if we're going to write off Captain Marvel's advantages as magic as the reason why he does so good against Superman, what about Diana? She's just as magic as he is. Her punches don't do "+ magic damage" because of her origins and by default, neither does Marvel. The only time Marvel deals "magic damage" is when he wraps his fists in magical lightning - like the time he KOed an unsuspecting Superman in three shots - or when he calls down magical lightning via "SHAZAM!".

Superman considers Marvel his equal in every way. Superman gets stalemated by Marvel. Superman admits Marvel has the edge toe-to-toe. It's not hard to see what numerous writers have been saying for decades. I get that you like Wonder Woman; really, I do. She's away and far my favorite superheroine in comics, but in terms of strength and durability, she's not in Marvel's league, and therefore, not in Black Adam's league, and therefore, not in Superman's.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So you're going to dismiss all of those scans? You still haven't shown Diana has ever in her career stalemated Superman in a direct case of strength pitted against strength. Captain Marvel has. Twice. And if we're going to write off Captain Marvel's advantages as magic as the reason why he does so good against Superman, what about Diana? She's just as magic as he is. Her punches don't do "+ magic damage" because of her origins and by default, neither does Marvel. The only time Marvel deals "magic damage" is when he wraps his fists in magical lightning - like the time he KOed an unsuspecting Superman in three shots - or when he calls down magical lightning via "SHAZAM!".

Superman considers Marvel his equal in every way. Superman gets stalemated by Marvel. Superman admits Marvel has the edge toe-to-toe. It's not hard to see what numerous writers have been saying for decades. I get that you like Wonder Woman; really, I do. She's away and far my favorite superheroine in comics, but in terms of strength and durability, she's not in Marvel's league, and therefore, not in Black Adam's league, and therefore, not in Superman's. I discounted the scans because they are from the DAN JURGENS depowered Superman era. Neither Orion nor DS have arm wrestled Superman either and we know they are his equals in strength. Arm wrestling is not a prereq. Diana doesn't wrap her fist in magic. Superman gives marvel the edge, while marvel is NOT wrapping himself in magic. Thus Marvel's fist are charged with magic somehow. Just like how Atlas was kicking Superman's ass with magic yet no magic amp was actually directly attributed to the strikes. You have not shown anything that shows Marvel doing as well against Superman as Wonder Woman does. You have to prove your case. Right now you haven't.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
I discounted the scans because they are from the DAN JURGENS depowered Superman era. Neither Orion nor DS have arm wrestled Superman either and we know they are his equals in strength. Arm wrestling is not a prereq. Diana doesn't wrap her fist in magic. Superman gives marvel the edge, while marvel is NOT wrapping himself in magic. Thus Marvel's fist are charged with magic somehow. Just like how Atlas was kicking Superman's ass with magic yet no magic amp was actually directly attributed to the strikes. You have not shown anything that shows Marvel doing as well against Superman as Wonder Woman does. You have to prove your case. Right now you haven't.

Then how come Diana by her own admission has claimed her strength nearly matches Superman or that she's almost as strong as him whereas multiple parties all agree that the gap between Captain Marvel and Superman is non-existent or at best, minute? Orion and Darkseid also have feats to directly support that claim as well as statements from a variety of characters. Captain Marvel doesn't magically amp his fists all the time, either. Case in point, in Morrison's JLA is one example when Marvel did that. Black Adam has the same ability. But without the magical lightning, they're still equals in strength to Superman based on feats and how they've fought him.

I've showed you Captain Marvel stalemating Superman in a direct comparison of strength. Direct. I've shown you a multitude of scans of Superman conceding Marvel is his equal without factoring in magic. I've shown you Superman, when factoring in magic, giving Marvel the edge.

DC Comics and a majority of comic book fans here and in general all believe Captain Marvel and Superman are equals or that Marvel is slightly below - or in some cases - slightly above Superman. Wonder Woman's always been shown to be < Superman in the strength department. I don't understand what's hard to grasp about something that a vast majority of various well informed people already know.

Gail Simone said Diana wasn't as strong as Superman... People lost their minds... Not that it matters...

Kal did say it was "toe-to-toe" though.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Then how come Diana by her own admission has claimed her strength nearly matches Superman or that she's almost as strong as him whereas multiple parties all agree that the gap between Captain Marvel and Superman is non-existent or at best, minute? Orion and Darkseid also have feats to directly support that claim as well as statements from a variety of characters. Captain Marvel doesn't magically amp his fists all the time, either. Case in point, in Morrison's JLA is one example when Marvel did that. Black Adam has the same ability. But without the magical lightning, they're still equals in strength to Superman based on feats and how they've fought him.

I've showed you Captain Marvel stalemating Superman in a direct comparison of strength. Direct. I've shown you a multitude of scans of Superman conceding Marvel is his equal without factoring in magic. I've shown you Superman, when factoring in magic, giving Marvel the edge.

DC Comics and a majority of comic book fans here and in general all believe Captain Marvel and Superman are equals or that Marvel is slightly below - or in some cases - slightly above Superman. Wonder Woman's always been shown to be < Superman in the strength department. I don't understand what's hard to grasp about something that a vast majority of various well informed people already know. What people already know? You didn't show anything. You didn't show CM doing half the Dmg to Superman that WW has. You didn't show CM making lasting injury to Superman as WW has. What have you shown? Old scans from jurgens era Superman?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Gail Simone said Diana wasn't as strong as Superman... People lost their minds... Not that it matters...

Kal did say it was "toe-to-toe" though.

Far enough.

Some writers portray them being equals, others imply or give Supes a slight edge.

The fact of the matter is that Captain Marvel is more of a peer to strength to Superman than Wonder Woman is, and I really don't see how that can be disputed.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Far enough.

Some writers portray them being equals, others imply or give Supes a slight edge.

The fact of the matter is that Captain Marvel is more of a peer to strength to Superman than Wonder Woman is, and I really don't see how that can be disputed.

Oh, that's true imo.

Diana has other abilities which make her a tough opponent for Kal, like her speed, skill and the like. In terms of pure strength, though, if people are going to make the "Captain Marvel = Superman" argument, then by extension it would mean that Captain Marvel > Wonder Woman, at least strength wise.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
What people already know? You didn't show anything. You didn't show CM doing half the Dmg to Superman that WW has. You didn't show CM making lasting injury to Superman as WW has. What have you shown? Old scans from jurgens era Superman?

Most people who know anything about Superman, Captain Marvel, Black Adam, and Wonder Woman or DC in general.

I showed plenty. You haven't shown anything close to Diana stalemating Superman in anything close to a direct strength comparison. I have.

I showed Superman admitting how Captain Marvel is his equal and is too evenly matched with him more times than once.

I showed scans from multiple writers.

What's the problem here?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Oh, that's true imo.

Diana has other abilities which make her a tough opponent for Kal, like her speed, skill and the like. In terms of pure strength, though, if people are going to make the "Captain Marvel = Superman" argument, then by extension it would mean that Captain Marvel > Wonder Woman, at least strength wise.



Yeah, no one's saying that Diana isn't tough. Her own physical stats, skills, and gear combined make her formidable to Superman, and she's a bad match up for Marvel and Adam because of the lasso. But physically, she's not as strong as Marvel or Superman. Not by feats or statements alike.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Gail Simone said Diana wasn't as strong as Superman... People lost their minds... Not that it matters...

Kal did say it was "toe-to-toe" though. Gail Simone is the editor of DC or Wonder Woman's longest and best writer?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


Yeah, no one's saying that Diana isn't tough. Her own physical stats, skills, and gear combined make her formidable to Superman, and she's a bad match up for Marvel and Adam because of the lasso. But physically, she's not as strong as Marvel or Superman. Not by feats or statements alike. What feats? WW has done better against Superman than CM has.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Gail Simone is the editor of DC or Wonder Woman's longest and best writer?

Perez said as much. As did Byrne. As do virtually all writers when it comes to Superman compared to Wonder Woman. All people infinitely more informed than you or I.

DC shows us that Wonder Woman isn't as strong as Superman and isn't as close of a peer to him physically as Captain Marvel or Black Adam is.

She out fights Superman, using her superior skill and fighting ability to make up for her strength disadvantage. Case in point, do you believe that Diana would far as well, better, or worse than either Marvel or Black Adam in a slug-fest, trading blow for blow with Superman?

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Gail Simone is the editor of DC or Wonder Woman's longest and best writer?

She's neither (she wrote most of the current Wonder Woman series); I just used her as an example.

It did amaze me the reaction she got, though. Kind of sad in a way.

I honestly don't recall Superman ever stating that Diana was as strong as he is. He respects her and thinks very highly of her, but in terms of pure strength, he has her beaten. And DC still likes to claim that he and Marvel are equals (which I agree with, at least at base levels).

It's a roundabout way of looking at it, sure, but no less accurate imo.

Originally posted by -Pr-
She's neither (she wrote most of the current Wonder Woman series); I just used her as an example.

It did amaze me the reaction she got, though. Kind of sad in a way.

I honestly don't recall Superman ever stating that Diana was as strong as he is. He respects her and thinks very highly of her, but in terms of pure strength, he has her beaten. And DC still likes to claim that he and Marvel are equals (which I agree with, at least at base levels).

It's a roundabout way of looking at it, sure, but no less accurate imo. Marvel has no strength feats to speak of and he, has stalemated WW. I do believe Superman to be Superior to WW and Marvel in strength. But not by a huge margin. Marvel keeps up because he is magically durable and WW keeps up because she is swifter and hits harder due to skill.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Perez said as much. As did Byrne. As do virtually all writers when it comes to Superman compared to Wonder Woman. All people infinitely more informed than you or I.

DC shows us that Wonder Woman isn't as strong as Superman and isn't as close of a peer to him physically as Captain Marvel or Black Adam is.

She out fights Superman, using her superior skill and fighting ability to make up for her strength disadvantage. Case in point, do you believe that Diana would far as well, better, or worse than either Marvel or Black Adam in a slug-fest, trading blow for blow with Superman? I believe strength has nothing to do with a slug fest. It has more to do with who is more durable. Thanos is stronger than the Juggernaut. Can he win in a slug fest? No. Black Adam and Captain Marvel are more durable than most any herald level beings due to their magic enchantments.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
I believe strength has nothing to do with a slug fest. It has more to do with who is more durable. Thanos is stronger than the Juggernaut. Can he win in a slug fest? No. Black Adam and Captain Marvel are more durable than most any herald level beings due to their magic enchantments.

what

It has to do with strength as much as it has to do with durability. Thanos and Juggernaut doesn't make sense at all as they're not even comparable to the characters of WW, CM, BA, or Superman.

Their durability is focused around magical defenses and the manipulation of their bodies by outside sources. A magical blast from Felix Faust would hurt Superman, whereas Captain Marvel walks right through it, for example. Unless you think Captain Marvel and Black Adam are significantly more durable when it comes to blunt force trauma than Superman, which I've not seen as the case.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Marvel has no strength feats to speak of and he, has stalemated WW. I do believe Superman to be Superior to WW and Marvel in strength. But not by a huge margin. Marvel keeps up because he is magically durable and WW keeps up because she is swifter and hits harder due to skill.

Him fighting Superman and Superman's own words don't count as strength feats?

Hits harder?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Him fighting Superman and Superman's own words don't count as strength feats?

Hits harder? Wonder Woman hits harder than Captain Marvel. He has never done the kind of DMG to Superman while Standing still that she can. On the ground, Wonder Woman is superior to them all. While Superman beats them all in the air. Superman's own words say that Wonder Woman is earth's next line of defense after himself. Not CM.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
what

It has to do with strength as much as it has to do with durability. Thanos and Juggernaut doesn't make sense at all as they're not even comparable to the characters of WW, CM, BA, or Superman.

Their durability is focused around magical defenses and the manipulation of their bodies by outside sources. A magical blast from Felix Faust would hurt Superman, whereas Captain Marvel walks right through it, for example. Unless you think Captain Marvel and Black Adam are significantly more durable when it comes to blunt force trauma than Superman, which I've not seen as the case.
Strength has nothing to do with a slug fest unless all applicants have the same durablity. Even then, healing factor, will to fight, all play a part. Besides, Wonder Woman would hit BA or CM 3 times as many times as they hit her and with more force. Speed equals force upon impact.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Strength has nothing to do with a slug fest unless all applicants have the same durablity. Even then, healing factor, will to fight, all play a part. Besides, Wonder Woman would hit BA or CM 3 times as many times as they hit her and with more force. Speed equals force upon impact.



So you really think Black Adam and Captain Marvel have lesser striking force than Diana? Even though Captain Marvel's bloodied Superman numerous times without magically amped strikes? Even though Captain Marvel has bloodied Black Adam numerous times who possesses greater magical defenses than Superman, and therefore, shouldn't be as prone to "magic damage"?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


So you really think Black Adam and Captain Marvel have lesser striking force than Diana? Even though Captain Marvel's bloodied Superman numerous times without magically amped strikes? Even though Captain Marvel has bloodied Black Adam numerous times who possesses greater magical defenses than Superman, and therefore, shouldn't be as prone to "magic damage"? How many times has Black Adam or Captain Marvel done any near the kind of DMG to an amped Superman that Diana has?

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Wonder Woman hits harder than Captain Marvel. He has never done the kind of DMG to Superman while Standing still that she can. On the ground, Wonder Woman is superior to them all. While Superman beats them all in the air. Superman's own words say that Wonder Woman is earth's next line of defense after himself. Not CM.

Diana uses magical weapons. When she's done real damage to him, it's been done through intelligence, skill or catching him out; not raw strength.

Next line of defence =/= the next strongest.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
How many times has Black Adam or Captain Marvel done any near the kind of DMG to an amped Superman that Diana has?

how many times has she fought an amped Superman?

Originally posted by Comics Queen
How many times has Black Adam or Captain Marvel done any near the kind of DMG to an amped Superman that Diana has?

Can you even begin to quantify that amp? Aside from he got some sun so he's x more powerful? Her damaging Superman is the result of her skill exploitation and the fact that Superman at the time wasn't in his right mind. If we want to go that route, Captain Marvel - while injured - held his own against a JLA roster which included Diana, The Flash, J'onn, and Guy Gardner in hell. Captain Marvel, while holding back, held his own and damaged Superman while he was possessed by Eclipso...twice. Captain Marvel takes on a guy who's magical resistance is just as good as his and far more ruthless and bloodies him and routinely stalemates him.

You're essentially ignoring all the history that points to Diana being less strong than Superman by a fair amount and all the history that points to Marvel being as strong as Superman or only slightly weaker at best. Writers have said she's not as strong as Superman nor is she that close to him strength wise that Marvel is. That's just fact, whether you like it or not. Captain Marvel's strength exceeds that of Diana's, Diana's skill and fighting ability exceeds that of Captain Marvel's.

That's canon and backed up by years worth's of on panel feats, statements from people involved in the instances, writers, and the informed comic book fan.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Can you even begin to quantify that amp? Aside from he got some sun so he's x more powerful? Her damaging Superman is the result of her skill exploitation and the fact that Superman at the time wasn't in his right mind. If we want to go that route, Captain Marvel - while injured - held his own against a JLA roster which included Diana, The Flash, J'onn, and Guy Gardner in hell. Captain Marvel, while holding back, held his own and damaged Superman while he was possessed by Eclipso...twice. Captain Marvel takes on a guy who's magical resistance is just as good as his and far more ruthless and bloodies him and routinely stalemates him.

You're essentially ignoring all the history that points to Diana being less strong than Superman by a fair amount and all the history that points to Marvel being as strong as Superman or only slightly weaker at best. Writers have said she's not as strong as Superman nor is she that close to him strength wise that Marvel is. That's just fact, whether you like it or not. Captain Marvel's strength exceeds that of Diana's, Diana's skill and fighting ability exceeds that of Captain Marvel's.

That's canon and backed up by years worth's of on panel feats, statements from people involved in the instances, writers, and the informed comic book fan. First off, you are of the contention that I think CM and Superman are equals. I do not. Lets get that str8. And CM's Strength cannot outstrip Diana's when he gets his from Herculese and she is stronger than Herc. She has best Herc in combat. You have NOT proven that CM is stronger than Diana. You saying so does not make it so. Not when I've shown Diana to do longer lasting DMG to Superman than CM and she even hits Superman further along than CM does. One more thing. Since when does Superman's bio Aura and invulnerablity change just because he think's he's fighting Doomsday instead of Wonder Woman? If anything, him thinking he is fighting Doomsday helps my case. We know how strong DD is. If WW were as weak as you think she is, Superman would have immediately noticed the difference.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Diana uses magical weapons. When she's done real damage to him, it's been done through intelligence, skill or catching him out; not raw strength.

Next line of defence =/= the next strongest.



how many times has she fought an amped Superman? Her fist are magical weapons? When he was holding himself in pain and kneeled over from her assault, that was from magical weapons? Skill isn't going to over come Superman's massive bio aura and invulnerablity. Strength has to do it. Or do you think Batman's skill, which is greater than Diana's could make superman hurt? Wonder Woman fought an amped Superman twice to my recollection.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
First off, you are of the contention that I think CM and Superman are equals. I do not. Lets get that str8. And CM's Strength cannot outstrip Diana's when he gets his from Herculese and she is stronger than Herc. She has best Herc in combat. You have NOT proven that CM is stronger than Diana. You saying so does not make it so. Not when I've shown Diana to do longer lasting DMG to Superman than CM and she even hits Superman further along than CM does.

So, you don't think what Superman and DC Comics as whole thinks? Ok.

First of all, Captain Marvel's powers stack. Look at the arm wrestling instance for example. The Power of Zeus further augments his abilities, which includes his physical strength. The Strength of Hercules, Stamina of Atlas, and Power of Zeus working in tandem is what makes Captain Marvel equal or extremely close to being equal to Superman in terms of physical prowess.

Superman's multitude of comments and Diana's comments prove my point. You keep using Diana's skill and combat finesse to translate into sole strength and that's not the case.

You've just said it yourself here just now that you don't think what Superman and a host of others do despite the fact that's it's consistently shown to be the case. Captain Marvel and Black Adam are stronger than Diana. And throwing Diana's H2H skill as reasoning as her being as strong or stronger than them doesn't change that.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So, you don't think what Superman and DC Comics as whole thinks? Ok.

First of all, Captain Marvel's powers stack. Look at the arm wrestling instance for example. The Power of Zeus further augments his abilities, which includes his physical strength. The Strength of Hercules, Stamina of Atlas, and Power of Zeus working in tandem is what makes Captain Marvel equal or extremely close to being equal to Superman in terms of physical prowess.

Superman's multitude of comments and Diana's comments prove my point. You keep using Diana's skill and combat finesse to translate into sole strength and that's not the case.

You've just said it yourself here just now that you don't think what Superman and a host of others do despite the fact that's it's consistently shown to be the case. Captain Marvel and Black Adam are stronger than Diana. And throwing Diana's H2H skill as reasoning as her being as strong or stronger than them doesn't change that. Skill isn't going to get thru Superman's bio aura or invulnerablity. You can keep trying that all day long. It requires power and lots of it to do so. Wonder Woman also has the Strength of Gaea and Demeter stacking. As well as powers from Zeus, Hera, Hermes, Etc. If you want to go blow by blow, Post Captain Marvel doing harm to Superman with no magical amp, and I'll post WW doing the same or better.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Skill isn't going to get thru Superman's bio aura or invulnerablity. You can keep trying that all day long. It requires power and lots of it to do so. Wonder Woman also has the Strength of Gaea and Demeter stacking. As well as powers from Zeus, Hera, Hermes, Etc. If you want to go blow by blow, Post Captain Marvel doing harm to Superman with no magical amp, and I'll post WW doing the same or better.

It's her skill which enabled her to fight him effectively and evade his cumbersome blows and strike with precision coupled with her own strength and speed, which is nothing to sneer at. Why you insist on ignoring this and placing Diana on a pedestal she's not on is beyond me. It does require power to harm Superman, and the power Diana does have is enough to harm him. You don't need to be as strong as Superman to hurt him, but to last as long as Diana did, you need the skill and fighting prowess to do so. If Diana merely slugged it out with Clark, trading blow for blow with him, she would have lost a lot faster.

I'm fully aware of Diana's patron deities. Captain Marvel's attributes all stack on top of each other, and the Power of Shazam as a whole it what makes him as formidable as he is.

Post Captain Marvel doing damage to Superman without a magical amp? So no magically charged fist or Shazam lighting summoning?

http://img104.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=4a22e_capvsupes4c.jpg

No evidence of magical amping outside of Superman acknowledging Captain Marvel's powers are based in them. Whereas in JLA, Captain Marvel explicitly used magically charged punches to KO an unsuspecting Superman in three blows.

Post Diana physically stalemating Superman in any contest of strength. Post any scan that shows Superman conceding Diana is his equal or better in terms of power and ability.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's her skill which enabled her to fight him effectively and evade his cumbersome blows and strike with precision coupled with her own strength and speed, which is nothing to sneer at. Why you insist on ignoring this and placing Diana on a pedestal she's not on is beyond me. It does require power to harm Superman, and the power Diana does have is enough to harm him. You don't need to be as strong as Superman to hurt him, but to last as long as Diana did, you need the skill and fighting prowess to do so. If Diana merely slugged it out with Clark, trading blow for blow with him, she would have lost a lot faster.

I'm fully aware of Diana's patron deities. Captain Marvel's attributes all stack on top of each other, and the Power of Shazam as a whole it what makes him as formidable as he is.

Post Captain Marvel doing damage to Superman without a magical amp? So no magically charged fist or Shazam lighting summoning?

http://img104.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=4a22e_capvsupes4c.jpg

No evidence of magical amping outside of Superman acknowledging Captain Marvel's powers are based in them. Whereas in JLA, Captain Marvel explicitly used magically charged punches to KO an unsuspecting Superman in three blows.

Post Diana physically stalemating Superman in any contest of strength. Post any scan that shows Superman conceding Diana is his equal or better in terms of power and ability. First off, that fight was staged. Do better. And CM"s blows didn't even hurt Superman. He's still standing. Plus CM had a FLY in to the first punch. This is how you hit Superman and make it count
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1228263_Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg13/

Has CM ever hit Superman this hard to punch him THRU a mountain?

Originally posted by Comics Queen
Her fist are magical weapons? When he was holding himself in pain and kneeled over from her assault, that was from magical weapons? Skill isn't going to over come Superman's massive bio aura and invulnerablity. Strength has to do it. Or do you think Batman's skill, which is greater than Diana's could make superman hurt? Wonder Woman fought an amped Superman twice to my recollection.

i never said her fists were magical weapons.

he doesn't have a bio-aura anymore.

i never said she wasn't strong.

she fought an out of his mind amped Superman during Sacrifice, so the amp itself is kind of overstated.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
First off, that fight was staged. Do better. And CM"s blows didn't even hurt Superman. He's still standing. Plus CM had a FLY in to the first punch.

So they used fake blood ala WWE? Pretty sure Superman can't will himself to bleed from a strike if it's not strong enough to draw blood on its own. Lowballing Captain Marvel and his consistent portrayals as compared to Superman doesn't suit your case. And after the first strike, Captain Marvel told him to stand down and Superman replied with heat vision. So, "Superman wasn't ready" doesn't count.

I guess it was staged when Marvel held his own against Superman all the other times, too.

Hinging your basis on Sacrifice and Superman's comment about Cheetah as compared to the overwelming amount of evidence stacked against you doesn't make Diana stronger than Captain Marvel or even as strong.


Back on topic:

Team 1 should win without PIS/CIS/Etc. Classic Diana makes it far closer of a fight.

Do people think that Black Adam is equal to Superman? Since he's equal to CM, he should be close to Superman.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So they used fake blood ala WWE? Pretty sure Superman can't will himself to bleed from a strike if it's not strong enough to draw blood on its own. Lowballing Captain Marvel and his consistent portrayals as compared to Superman doesn't suit your case. And after the first strike, Captain Marvel told him to stand down and Superman replied with heat vision. So, "Superman wasn't ready" doesn't count.

I guess it was staged when Marvel held his own against Superman all the other times, too.

Hinging your basis on Sacrifice and Superman's comment about Cheetah as compared to the overwelming amount of evidence stacked against you doesn't make Diana stronger than Captain Marvel or even as strong.


Back on topic:

Team 1 should win without PIS/CIS/Etc. Classic Diana makes it far closer of a fight. I hinge my basis that Diana and CM are equals and Superman is slightly superior to both of them based upon the evidence of comics and statements made in those comics. The posting of Diana kicking Superman thru a mountain is NOT from sacrifice. I just wanted to show that she has done better with her attacks against Superman than CM has.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i never said her fists were magical weapons.

he doesn't have a bio-aura anymore.

i never said she wasn't strong.

she fought an out of his mind amped Superman during Sacrifice, so the amp itself is kind of overstated. The out of mind state isn't exactly true. He wasn't out of his mind. He actually believed he was fighting someone else. A SUPERIOR opponent. The fact that he was hitting Diana as if she were Doomsday and she hitting him and he didn't notice any big strength difference lends itself more to my assumption that they are all in the same class. Also note that Diana was holding back in the story as stated and shown on panel.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
I hinge my basis that Diana and CM are equals and Superman is slightly superior to both of them based upon the evidence of comics and statements made in those comics. The posting of Diana kicking Superman thru a mountain is NOT from sacrifice. I just wanted to show that she has done better with her attacks against Superman than CM has.

Except...your basis is flat out wrong based on the evidence of comics. Superman considers Captain Marvel to be more equal to him than Diana based off statements and it's backed up with feats and showings from all of them. Diana knows she's can't trade blow for blow with Superman, which is why she either tries to out fight him or grab specialized gear to overcome that disadvantage. Captain Marvel, on the other hand, can slug it out with Superman and endure being punched across the country with no damage whatsoever and tackle Superman from the Cali coast to the Arctic.

Diana being a better fighter than CM =/= being as strong as him. That's what you are refusing to believe.

Originally posted by Comics Queen
The out of mind state isn't exactly true. He wasn't out of his mind. He actually believed he was fighting someone else. A SUPERIOR opponent. The fact that he was hitting Diana as if she were Doomsday and she hitting him and he didn't notice any big strength difference lends itself more to my assumption that they are all in the same class. Also note that Diana was holding back in the story as stated and shown on panel.

He thought he was fighting a Doomsday which butchered Lois. He was distraught and in a full blown rage and under the sway of Maxwell Lord's telepathy. It's a good showing for Diana against fighting someone who physically outclasses her, and no one disputes it.

But trying to paint it as Diana = Captain Marvel or Superman and trying to act like Diana's sole strength was what saved her is misleading at best.

Not that it matters, but Rucka himself stated Superman was out of his mind...

Originally posted by -Pr-
Not that it matters, but Rucka himself stated Superman was out of his mind...

I don't see why it wouldn't matter, tbh.

I know writer statements are tricky for debate usage here, but so long as they don't explicitly contradict what was said in the story or a connected one and they're aren't opinions based off of something else, they give us good insight as to what they at least were attempting to convey to us. I take Sacrifice for what it was: Diana faring against a violent, bloodlusted, and mentally unstable Superman. It's extremely good for her under the circumstances.

If Superman knew he was fighting Diana, the results would have been different.

I just meant because the sock was now banned.

Lol. Well, there ya go. *nods*