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Who's taking this? No bfr.

Has WW ever been so fast she can have an entire conversation in the middle of a fight (essentially a time stop)?

How fast do you have to be to do that? She's been sl fast that she was as fast as Amazo who was said to be faster than Superman. She even blitz him before he could react. Does that count?

Originally posted by carver9
How fast do you have to be to do that? She's been sl fast that she was as fast as Amazo who was said to be faster than Superman. She even blitz him before he could react. Does that count?

Well that only makes her as fast as Black Canary and Black Lightning, Batman, Hal Jordan etc all of whom were cutting his legs off, jumping on him, screaming into his ears etc, so that's not that fast.

So no, it doesn't count, sadly. Unless all those characters are also as fast? Let me know.
Edit: here you can clearly see he's obviously not thinking quickly in the fight.

He's literally getting entire words and phrases out his lips before his own mind can complete words lmao.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
https://i.postimg.cc/NfNKRKLy/hR6Wwjp.jpg

His thinking speed - in THIS fight - doesn't seem to match his talking speed, lol.

That's not the scene I'm talking about. Lol... I'm talking about the scene where she soloed Amazo and it was outright said that he is faster than Superman and as fast as her. She then proceeded at blitzing through a roof and blitzing him before he could react. She also slapped all of his heat vision blast out of the air at super speed.

Originally posted by carver9
That's not the scene I'm talking about. Lol... I'm talking about the scene where she soloed Amazo and it was outright said that he is faster than Superman and as fast as her. She then proceeded at blitzing through a roof and blitzing him before he could react. She also slapped all of his heat vision blast out of the air at super speed.

Post the scans, let's see them. I hope it's not the one where Hal blows a hole through him. Guessing Hal has lightspeed reflexes but let's see.

Youre contradicting yourself. In one hand youre saying Superman can't be touched due to super speed shown on panel, and I give you the same thing with evidence of Wonder Woman being faster and you want to discredit it. Wonder Woman was explicitly shown to be fast and she blocked a number of heat vision blast coming at her at super speed. This>>>your Zod ft.

Originally posted by carver9
and I give you the same thing with evidence of Wonder Woman being faster and you want to discredit it.
Didn't another comic later clarify that in raw speed Superman is actually faster than Diana?
The difference is just that she is more skilled than Superman, so some actions she can do without thinking

Originally posted by carver9
Youre contradicting yourself. In one hand youre saying Superman can't be touched due to super speed shown on panel, and I give you the same thing with evidence of Wonder Woman being faster and you want to discredit it. Wonder Woman was explicitly shown to be fast and she blocked a number of heat vision blast coming at her at super speed. This>>>your Zod ft.

But in your example, who said Amazo was faster than Superman, as fast as WW?

Was it WW herself?

Because in the same fight, we saw a powerless Zatanna speedblitzing (lmao) Amazo:

https://i.ibb.co/stSq3bC/24-02.jpg

Before he could react, even. The only thing was she didn't harm him, but she was still fast enough to hit him and deflect his killing blow.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Didn't another comic later clarify that in raw speed Superman is actually faster than Diana?
The difference is just that she is more skilled than Superman, so some actions she can do without thinking

I think youre getting your comics mixed up. This is what I'm talking about...

https://i.ibb.co/rHbDz79/cwVldu1.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But in your example, who said Amazo was faster than Superman, as fast as WW?

Was it WW herself?

Because in the same fight, we saw a powerless Zatanna speedblitzing (lmao) Amazo:

https://i.ibb.co/stSq3bC/24-02.jpg

Before he could react, even. The only thing was she didn't harm him, but she was still fast enough to hit him and deflect his killing blow.

You can't take away from the comic, Saint. Lol. Heck, even in the speed showing you're mentioning with Zod and Superman, both got hit by things that doesn't have any super speed.

Originally posted by carver9
I think youre getting your comics mixed up. This is what I'm talking about...

https://i.ibb.co/rHbDz79/cwVldu1.jpg

same fight that people always mysteriously miss out:
https://i.ibb.co/KrgPG5d/24-03.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/2SDkz0S/24-04.jpg

Look at those speedsters go! He even registers Canary as a threat, but is unable to do anything about it lol.

I'm not defending other JLA hitting him because it happens, even in Superman best speed showings. All I know is Amazo used his speed during his fight with Wonder Woman and she said it was faster than Clarks. We even see Amazo moments before this blitzing a refreshed Clark.

Originally posted by carver9
You can't take away from the comic, Saint. Lol. Heck, even in the speed showing you're mentioning with Zod and Superman, both got hit by things that doesn't have any super speed.

Am I taking anything away? I am saying Canary, a powerless Zatanna, Hawkgirl, Red Tornado etc are all fast enough to hit and tag Amazo.

Is this not PIS? Or is Amazo just fast when you want him to be, then slow when not?

Give me the issue number of Zod and Superman talking at super speed. The showing you used here. Thanks

Originally posted by carver9
I think youre getting your comics mixed up. This is what I'm talking about...

https://i.ibb.co/rHbDz79/cwVldu1.jpg
Not really, as you can notice in my original post
"Didn't *another* comic *later* clarify"

Which is true. As the scan you posted here is from Justice League of America issue 24

And the raw speed scan is from issue 27
https://ibb.co/6Hn8JNf

Both issues are written by the same writer(Dwayne McDuffie)

Originally posted by carver9
I'm not defending other JLA hitting him because it happens, even in Superman best speed showings. All I know is Amazo used his speed during his fight with Wonder Woman and she said it was faster than Clarks. We even see Amazo moments before this blitzing a refreshed Clark.



He was slow before the WW fight (when Hawkgirl saved Firestorm out of his attack). Then was fast (when firing HV at WW). Then was slow when Hal smashed a hole through him. Then was slow when Canary and Zatanna and Hawkgirl smashed his head to pieces. Then was fast when fighting WW. Then was slow again when Zatanna conjured up Red Tornado.

Gotcha. Fast and slow, depending on what we want.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Not really, as you can notice in my original post
"Didn't *another* comic *later* clarify"

Which is true. As the scan you posted here is from Justice League of America issue 24

And the raw speed scan is from issue 27
https://ibb.co/6Hn8JNf

Both issues are written by the same writer(Dwayne McDuffie)

Aaahhhh, this scene that also proves that her reactions>>>>Clark. Batman even agreed. Thanks for posting it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


He was slow before the WW fight (when Hawkgirl saved Firestorm out of his attack). Then was fast (when firing HV at WW). Then was slow when Hal smashed a hole through him. Then was slow when Canary and Zatanna and Hawkgirl smashed his head to pieces. Then was fast when fighting WW. Then was slow again when Zatanna conjured up Red Tornado.

Gotcha. Fast and slow, depending on what we want.

Whats that issue and issue number? I'm also, saving this thread, lol.

Originally posted by carver9
Aaahhhh, this scene that also proves that her reactions>>>>Clark. Batman even agreed. Thanks for posting it.
Not really, it basically says Superman is faster in pure speed.

The difference is some actions Wonder Woman can do without thinking because muscle memory

But when things come down to something she doesn't encounter before, Superman is faster. Or something she and Clark are both familiar with, such like running, Clark is faster etc

Originally posted by carver9
Whats that issue and issue number? I'm also, saving this thread, lol.

Superman #12..

Also, remember this:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You're not understanding my point.

It depends on the number of showings they have, total.

Billy has quite a few showings. So his feats need to be taken into account, more than his fights.

Gladiator does not (relative to Billy). So his fights count for much more than his feats. He is the same like Orion, who has even fewer showings still.

Hulk has TONS of showings. So his fights and feats are all equal(ish) in weighting.

IOW: if a character has very few appearances (LT, In-Betweener, Orion, Galactus) then their fights are a better gauge of their power.

The more showings a character has, and the more they start interacting with other characters, the more their fights get diluted. Lobo is a good example, as are the Lanterns. You yourself acknowledge, in team books Lobo is less impressive. Lanterns are terrible against bricks. That's when their feats become more of a gauge, where writers don't have to dilute them. Batman and Cap are also good examples of this.

Nearly 8 years, now, lol.

Nope. If Zod got hit in that comic by something with no speed showing, that sh** is getting thrown out the window. I'm doing this going forward on any speed showing you mention.

Originally posted by carver9
Nope. If Zod got hit in that comic by something with no speed showing, that sh** is getting thrown out the window. I'm doing this going forward on any speed showing you mention.

But I am saying PIS exists in comics that enables slower characters to tag faster characters all the time.

I am not saying Zatanna is Amazo level. I am not saying Canary is Amazo level.

I am saying that relying solely on fights when the fights are full of PIS is wrong. You're the one to bring up ABC 'well WW hit Amazo who is fast therefore she is fast herself!'

All just because I asked about her having a timestop conversation. Look, if she doesn't have one, she doesn't. No shame in that, only a select few speedsters (the Flashes, the Supermen) have these.

But by all means, read a comic for once. you're welcome.

This comic outright said Amazo is faster than Superman by someone who knows Superman speed. Also, this...

I'm surprised you're even arguing this way when you disagreed with this style of debating not too long ago. When Robin withstood an attack from an imp while trying to give Superman credit via durabiliity for withstanding hits from a being supposedly more powerful than Mxy.

Originally posted by carver9
This comic outright said Amazo is faster than Superman by someone who knows Superman speed. Also, this...

I'm surprised you're even arguing this way when you disagreed with this style of debating not too long ago. When Robin withstood an attack from an imp while trying to give Superman credit via durabiliity for withstanding hits from a being supposedly more powerful than Mxy.

WW's internal narration stated that, just after Canary blew his head off.

I even stated that as a trope:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
you get it.

Powerless humans in comics sure are powerful , concession accepted.

You are beginning to understand, I think - PIS exists in comics. Powerless humans can tank attacks that high heralds can't, slow characters can tag fast characters all the time.

You do know it's the writers who is saying these things right. I don't know why you keep debating like these characters are real. Anyways, yes, there are contradictions in comics, in this case, it's not. About to read that Zod comic. I cant wait.

Originally posted by carver9
You do know it's the writers who is saying these things right. I don't know why you keep debating like these characters are real. Anyways, yes, there are contradictions in comics, in this case, it's not. About to read that Zod comic. I cant wait.

I'm not debating them as though they are real? WTF lol.

I am saying she can be written as mistaken. If Gladiator is said to be stronger than Hulk and Hyperion combined by Grimm, it's obviously the writer writing the character saying that - does that make it true?

So its not a contradiction in this comic? Amazo is both fast and slow?

Edit: also, I will save you the trouble, lmao:

https://i.ibb.co/3MdgtBn/RCO009-1560334072.jpg

That's the entire scene. I chose it for a reason

What youre not getting is, this happens all of the time 🤣. Even when Superman built that moon, a random no name alien was able to track him and attack him. Ill be back. Stop replying please so that I can read this comic.

Originally posted by carver9
What youre not getting is, this happens all of the time 🤣. Even when Superman built that moon, a random no name alien was able to track him and attack him. Ill be back. Stop replying please so that I can read this comic.

Yup, so PIS happens all the time. Agreed.

Wonder Woman speed isn't PIS

Read Superman #12 and that's about Brainiac. I don't see Zod in this comic.

....

You know there are multiple Superman books, right?

It's the Bendis one. With Rogol Zarr.

it's a false comparison anyway. superman is faster than zod. one showing doesn't change that. zod may be the faster of the two but is the difference great enough to ensure he wins this? not imo. she's fought supes any number of times. we can claim pis every time but that gets old very fast. i'd say this is pretty close to a split. maybe diana 6/10. be similar to captain marvel vs zod but diana's more warrior like. cm would be a bit softer but neither would be overwhelmed by zod's speed imo. and we'd need more proof than a single feat to make the claim anyway i think. we'd need more far more combat speed feats. like i said--he may be faster but i don't think the difference would be the difference in the match.

Originally posted by leonidas
it's a false comparison anyway. superman is faster than zod. one showing doesn't change that. zod may be the faster of the two but is the difference great enough to ensure he wins this? not imo. she's fought supes any number of times. we can claim pis every time but that gets old very fast. i'd say this is pretty close to a split. maybe diana 6/10. be similar to captain marvel vs zod but diana's more warrior like. cm would be a bit softer but neither would be overwhelmed by zod's speed imo. and we'd need more proof than a single feat to make the claim anyway i think. we'd need more far more combat speed feats. like i said--he may be faster but i don't think the difference would be the difference in the match.

Yeah. You need context, as always, Leo:

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder Woman vs Zod, who wins? Wonder Woman has better strength, speed, and durability fts than Zod, so she should pull a hefty majority, right? Im talking aboht a stomp.

Superman isnt in this thread. Let's stay on topic.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman isnt in this thread. Let's stay on topic.
You found it yet??

I mean, this is your post:

Originally posted by carver9
You can't take away from the comic, Saint. Lol. Heck, even in the speed showing you're mentioning with Zod and Superman, both got hit by things that doesn't have any super speed.

So you must have seen it, right???

Originally posted by leonidas
it's a false comparison anyway. superman is faster than zod. one showing doesn't change that. zod may be the faster of the two but is the difference great enough to ensure he wins this? not imo. she's fought supes any number of times. we can claim pis every time but that gets old very fast. i'd say this is pretty close to a split. maybe diana 6/10. be similar to captain marvel vs zod but diana's more warrior like. cm would be a bit softer but neither would be overwhelmed by zod's speed imo. and we'd need more proof than a single feat to make the claim anyway i think. we'd need more far more combat speed feats. like i said--he may be faster but i don't think the difference would be the difference in the match.
This on the same day Captain Marvel needs kryptonite to beat nameless kryptonians?

https://ibb.co/SyhnRxn

I have a job, Saint. I cant just read comics and work at the same time. Give me time. You didn't even tell me the year of the Superman comic.

Zod

Originally posted by carver9
I have a job, Saint. I cant just read comics and work at the same time. Give me time. You didn't even tell me the year of the Superman comic.

So if you haven't read it.....how can you assert so confidently that he got hit by things that had no superspeed??

Also, damn, how much handholding do you need? How many Superman #12s written by Bendis have Rogol Zaar in them??

I know what scene you're talking about. Superman son even started moving at super speed to match them. I just haven't read it in a while.

Originally posted by carver9
I know what scene you're talking about. Superman son even started moving at super speed to match them. I just haven't read it in a while.

So which beings who had no superspeed hit them??

I'll read it again and check. It's been a while.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah. You need context, as always, Leo:

Originally posted by carver9
I couldn't find what you are talking about. I think you are getting the comics mixed up.

Damn, how much hand holding do you need lmao.

Why do you all think WW is slow?

Because it'll somehow make Superman look bad.

Nobody said she was slow?

It's actually the reverse. Carver only wants her to be fast due to his anti Superman agenda. That's all.

Am I anti Gladiator as well...

Originally posted by carver9
She wasn't even fighting him in the movie. Lol. Anyways, Diana beats Gladiator.

Anti Hulk and OMNIman?

Originally posted by carver9
Yes, including Hulk. She is fast enough to tie them up as soon as the fight starts.

Anti Captain Marvel as well.

https://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=569051&pagenumber=3

Go look at the Diana vs Silver Surfer thread, please. Lol... most Heralds don't stand a chance against her. I even think she would stomp Flash brains in. Keep crying.

For giggles, I said she would stomp Thanos brains in as well without shields. WW>>Thanos and Darkseid.

Originally posted by carver9
Without shields, Thanos lose. With them, he wins this.

Come back when you've read a the comic the time and effort you went into typing your posts and finding your comments could've been spent actually addressing my points.

Carver, hello!

Originally posted by carver9
Zod appearance was small in that book. How fast do you have to be to react to Zod and Superman in this mode?

Is it faster than her blitzing Amazo before he could react who was said to be faster than Clark?

https://i.ibb.co/Ny1wFpN/Screenshot-20241213-183344-Chrome.png

Originally posted by carver9


But that's not my point? I'm glad you've FINALLY read it, remember how confident you were lmao:
Originally posted by carver9
You can't take away from the comic, Saint. Lol. Heck, even in the speed showing you're mentioning with Zod and Superman, both got hit by things that doesn't have any super speed.

Originally posted by carver9
Nope. If Zod got hit in that comic by something with no speed showing, that sh** is getting thrown out the window. I'm doing this going forward on any speed showing you mention.

Guess he wasn't, lmao. Guess why I chose it?

So again, does WW have a showing where she does the same? My very first question that you ignore. Doesn't matter how fast one needs to be, the point is that it's reserved for the fastest speedsters (for example, Flashes and Kryptonians).

No, she doesn't have fts like that but she does have fts of hitting beings that moves in super speed. Again, do you think Zod has faster showings than her? Example, heat vision hurts kryptonians but zod tends to get hit by it most of the time whereas Diana casually blocks it on almost every occasion.

Originally posted by carver9
No, she doesn't have fts like that but she does have fts of hitting beings that moves in super speed. Again, do you think Zod has faster showings than her? Example, heat vision hurts kryptonians but zod tends to get hit by it most of the time whereas Diana casually blocks it on almost every occasion.

That's a poor example because WW has lesser durability than Zod without the bracelets, therefore she NEEDS to block with them. For example, like how she does with bullets.

Zod doesn't need to block bullets. And can take HV. So doesn't block - same way Wolverine doesn't block bullets, but no one would use that to argue he's slower than Nightwing, who can't take bullets so has to dance around them all the time. Zod isn't slower than bullets, but he gets hit by them all the time.

And yes, Zod has faster showings than WW. Like talking in superspeed and having extended conversations in the space of a panel, which is a timestop type feat that only high end speedsters like the Flashes and Kryptonians have.

Since you have conceded to my carefully prepared trap, I'm satisfied . I even tried to help you:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Edit: also, I will save you the trouble, lmao:

https://i.ibb.co/3MdgtBn/RCO009-1560334072.jpg

That's the entire scene. I chose it for a reason

I dont get why that is so special to you. Quicksilver see the world at a stand still all of the time and has to slow down himself down to a crawl just to have conversation with people and WW is faster than him as well.

Wonder Woman vs amped Supergirl. It always ends like this. Wonder Woman being too fast...


https://i.ibb.co/9ZhDJm4/Screenshot-20241213-224029-Samsung-Internet.png
https://i.ibb.co/K0knV1N/Screenshot-20241213-224040-Samsung-Internet.png
https://i.ibb.co/pPbkpMw/Screenshot-20241213-224052-Samsung-Internet.png
https://i.ibb.co/QMRDygc/Screenshot-20241213-224105-Samsung-Internet.png
https://i.ibb.co/N1X4Tbd/Screenshot-20241213-224117-Samsung-Internet.png
https://i.ibb.co/qmDgmZk/Screenshot-20241213-224129-Samsung-Internet.png

sure..

Anyway, with her gear, WW 6/10.

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder Woman vs amped Supergirl. It always ends like this. Wonder Woman being too fast...


https://i.ibb.co/9ZhDJm4/Screenshot-20241213-224029-Samsung-Internet.png
https://i.ibb.co/K0knV1N/Screenshot-20241213-224040-Samsung-Internet.png
https://i.ibb.co/pPbkpMw/Screenshot-20241213-224052-Samsung-Internet.png
https://i.ibb.co/QMRDygc/Screenshot-20241213-224105-Samsung-Internet.png
https://i.ibb.co/N1X4Tbd/Screenshot-20241213-224117-Samsung-Internet.png
https://i.ibb.co/qmDgmZk/Screenshot-20241213-224129-Samsung-Internet.png
Zod vs Supergirl BTW.

https://imgur.com/6oklrz2

More to the point here is Eradicator vs Wonder Woman.

https://imgur.com/a/XuAZA86

Here's Zod vs Eradicator, Cyborg Superman, Enchantress and rest of the Suicide Squad all at once.

https://imgur.com/a/WCh9JmM

Zod oneshots her.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Zod vs Supergirl BTW.

https://imgur.com/6oklrz2

More to the point here is Eradicator vs Wonder Woman.

https://imgur.com/a/XuAZA86

Here's Zod vs Eradicator, Cyborg Superman, Enchantress and rest of the Suicide Squad all at once.

https://imgur.com/a/WCh9JmM

Zod oneshots her.

You're missing context, as usual, abhi.

Zod was also missing half his head when fighting the Suicide Squad and had a boomerang literally stuck in his brain.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You're missing context, as usual, abhi.

Zod was also missing half his head when fighting the Suicide Squad and had a boomerang literally stuck in his brain.
Of course, that must have amped him.

you also forgot he was facing one of the best magic users (Enchantress) there.

Tsk tsk.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
you also forgot he was facing one of the best magic users (Enchantress) there.

Tsk tsk.
Double amp

Zod wins 6/10

he just has too good of feats for the last 10 years

Superman was getting stomped by Eradicator as well, lol. Also, Wonder Woman stomped an AMPED Supergirl while holding back. Supergirl couldn't even touch her.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You're missing context, as usual, abhi.

Zod was also missing half his head when fighting the Suicide Squad and had a boomerang literally stuck in his brain.

He was shot by bullets in this scene. Doesn't that take away from the showing? Also, Enchantress was fast enough to blast him.

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder Woman stomped an AMPED Supergirl while holding back. Supergirl couldn't even touch her. What amp?

Originally posted by Juntai
What amp?

I literally provided the scans above. It's mentioned right there. Not like you all will accept it anyways 🤣.

Originally posted by carver9
He was shot by bullets in this scene. Doesn't that take away from the showing? Also, Enchantress was fast enough to blast him.

Well yeah, you try fighting with half your brain missing and - oh wait, that's baseline Carver.

So the ft doesn't count since he was tagged by slow opponents. Gotcha. Anyways, Supergirl whos has that kryptonian speed always fail to even tag WW in fights. I can post more if you want, lol.

Originally posted by carver9
So the ft doesn't count since he was tagged by slow opponents. Gotcha. Anyways, Supergirl whos has that kryptonian speed always fail to even tag WW in fights. I can post more if you want, lol.

Well it does? He's not at 100%, literally has a boomerang stuck in his brain lmao. Any low showings he has in this state can be conveniently ignored as he has half his brain missing

You truly are stupid, aren't you? Like, not trying to insult you.

This is literally him before the fight:
https://i.ibb.co/jypRn0G/RCO012-1495697761.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/w4mDDpM/RCO011-w-1495697761.jpg

Show me WW fighting with this much damage. I will wait.

Lol... nope, it can't be ignored. He's able to fight and attack with no issues and if he's even a percentage of the speed you're trying to sell, everything should still be in slow motion for him. The showing sucks. He was tagged by slow pokes.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... nope, it can't be ignored. He's able to fight and attack with no issues and if he's even a percentage of the speed you're trying to sell, everything should still be in slow motion for him. The showing sucks. He was tagged by slow pokes.


That shows how durable he is. We have shown that he can go into superspeed mode and do things she has never done before. Excellent. Next stage:

Show me WW fighting with anywhere near this amount of damage:

https://i.ibb.co/jypRn0G/RCO012-1495697761.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/w4mDDpM/RCO011-w-1495697761.jpg

I will wait.

She doesn't need showings like that to win the fight. All she needs to do is win by ko or subdue him, something that she does on a norm with kryptonians. We saw how she handles augmented kryptonians (Superman and Supergirl amped can't touch her) and we also see how easily she subdue them. You trying to sell super speed mode for kryptonians when they cant even touch her most of the time is hilarious. That includes Amazo who also had Superman speed stacked on top of other speedsters.

So she doesn't have his durability showings or his speed showings. Ok.

She has better speed showing by blitzing characters that has better speed fts than Zod. Example, Zaar doesn't have Zod or Superman speed showings but we've seen him handle their speed with no issues and in a forum fight, we wouldn't give Zod the edge against him since we know and witnessed him doing just fine against kryptonians. This applies to Doomsday, Darkseid, and Monarch.

So....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You're not understanding my point.

It depends on the number of showings they have, total.

Billy has quite a few showings. So his feats need to be taken into account, more than his fights.

Gladiator does not (relative to Billy). So his fights count for much more than his feats. He is the same like Orion, who has even fewer showings still.

Hulk has TONS of showings. So his fights and feats are all equal(ish) in weighting.

IOW: if a character has very few appearances (LT, In-Betweener, Orion, Galactus) then their fights are a better gauge of their power.

The more showings a character has, and the more they start interacting with other characters, the more their fights get diluted. Lobo is a good example, as are the Lanterns. You yourself acknowledge, in team books Lobo is less impressive. Lanterns are terrible against bricks. That's when their feats become more of a gauge, where writers don't have to dilute them. Batman and Cap are also good examples of this.

Lmao. Anyway, I'm pretty sure I've humiliated you enough.

You haven't, and based off fts, Diana stomps. She has better strength, durability and speed showings. Nice debating with you, though.

Originally posted by carver9
You haven't, and based off fts, Diana stomps. She has better strength, durability and speed showings. Nice debating with you, though.

Oh you think I can humiliate you even more?

You haven't owned sh**. All you're saying is "Zod has a super speed that only the kryptonians and Flashes share" while ignoring Wonder Woman blitzing kryptonians and beings with kryptonian level powers with utter ease.

Originally posted by carver9
You haven't owned sh**. All you're saying is "Zod has a super speed that only the kryptonians and Flashes share" while ignoring Wonder Woman blitzing kryptonians and beings with kryptonian level powers with utter ease.
I just found it strange that over her entire career, including pre crisis, she doesn't have the feat that every notable speedster has. Even the slowest of the Flashes have it. Even Jon as a kiddie Kryptonian has it. Hell, am pretty sure even Martian Manjobber has it,and he's nowhere near as popular as WW.

And then...and then....you tried to act like you knew that scene (lmao) and said Zod got hit, acting the big dog lol.

Then tried to turn it on me with the Suicide Squad scene, forgetting that he had just performed major brain surgery on himself and was fighting with the kind of injury that would affect even characters like Deadpool and Wolverine - and you laughingly said he was fighting with no problems or issues, inadvertently proving my point.

No one said Zod doesn't have a raw speed advantage. When it comes to reflexes which is what counts in a fight, there's literally no competition. She doesn't need a super speed mode when most of the time, those same beings with super speed mode can't even touch her. This is what youre failing to understand. Also, you post a Zod ft and expect me to ignore him being tagged by slow opponents. Youre funny.

He wasn't at 100% though? Half his head was missing, lmao. Getting tagged by slower characters - in a completely different comic, when I said PIS exists -means nothing.

But look at you, still trying to claw some dignity and act like you can actually debate.

Half his head was missing but he was still able to fight effectively. Anyways, I don't get why you find the world being slowed as something amazing. Even Herc with Spiderman powers has seen the world frozen and was reacting and moving around while everything was at a standstill. Fts like THIS is more impressive... IMO

https://i.ibb.co/PzyzmLF/o2RRB4P.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
You haven't owned sh**.

Samuel L. Carvson

So you didn't see the word "augmented" by the gods? You didn't read it. Lol

Originally posted by carver9
Superman was getting stomped by Eradicator as well, lol. Also, Wonder Woman stomped an AMPED Supergirl while holding back. Supergirl couldn't even touch her.
When was Superman getting stomped by Eradicator Carver? More to the point when was Zod, who's actually in the thread?

Originally posted by carver9
So you didn't see the word "augmented" by the gods? You didn't read it. Lol
How was she too fast for her Carver? All she did was lasso her and held on for dear life and Supergirl was koed by the backlash.

https://ibb.co/SRg6SXQ

https://i.ibb.co/42z5Sk9/Screenshot-20241215-002842-Chrome.png

Originally posted by abhilegend
When was Superman getting stomped by Eradicator Carver? More to the point when was Zod, who's actually in the thread?

She lost and Wonder Woman was whippin that ass before she lost. She couldn't even land a lick minus the surprised attack in the beginning. Her fights are always like that against WW.

Originally posted by carver9
The showing sucks.

Originally posted by carver9
Half his head was missing but he was still able to fight effectively.

Lmao. Show me any other herald, hell, even trans or meta who haven't got a HF, doing this.

Originally posted by carver9
She lost and Wonder Woman was whippin that ass before she lost. She couldn't even land a lick minus the surprised attack in the beginning. Her fights are always like that against WW.
Wonder Woman was holding on for dear life lol, she didn't do shit to Supergirl except block her heat vision.

Where's she too fast for her Carver?

Hello Carver???

Answering you is like walking on glass barefoot without bleeding. It's pointless.

Originally posted by carver9
https://i.ibb.co/42z5Sk9/Screenshot-20241215-002842-Chrome.png thanks.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


Lmao. Show me any other herald, hell, even trans or meta who haven't got a HF, doing this.

Carver, hello

Why am I showing you a herald doing this? He obviously has a healing factor since, well, he healed from it, lol.

Originally posted by carver9
Why am I showing you a herald doing this? He obviously has a healing factor since, well, he healed from it, lol.

Oh he does has he?

Do all Kryptonians have this HF then? We are going to see if you spot my trap.

Did he heal the brain gash? Yes or no? Also, Zod fts doesnt belong to other characters. Nice trap though.

Originally posted by carver9
Did he heal the brain gash? Yes or no? Also, Zod fts doesnt belong to other characters. Nice trap though.

Good you didn't spot my trap

Why post Supergirl scans in this thread when she doesn't have Zod's HF? Lmao.

I posted Supergirl scans because you said ALL Kryptonians have that super speed mode which Kara has shown and which Kara has also been too slow to even touch WW. Get it?

Originally posted by carver9
I posted Supergirl scans because you said ALL Kryptonians have that super speed mode which Kara has shown and which Kara has also been too slow to even touch WW. Get it?


You're right. Maybe this superspeed mode is only for Zod, Jor El, Superman and Jon.

Supergirl doesn't seem to have it, and doesn't have the HF that Zod has, it seems. So irrelevant scans. Or she does have that mode,but doesn't have the HF that Zod has.

So still irrelevant.

Either way, looks like I owned you yet again, even when warning you it's a trap

Originally posted by carver9
Answering you is like walking on glass barefoot without bleeding. It's pointless.
What kind of homoeroticism is that lmfao

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You're right. Maybe this superspeed mode is only for Zod, Jor El, Superman and Jon.

Supergirl doesn't seem to have it, and doesn't have the HF that Zod has, it seems. So irrelevant scans. Or she does have that mode,but doesn't have the HF that Zod has.

So still irrelevant.

Either way, looks like I owned you yet again, even when warning you it's a trap

🤣🤣🤣... The trolling.

the projecting here.....

Originally posted by carver9
I posted Supergirl scans because you said ALL Kryptonians have that super speed mode which Kara has shown and which Kara has also been too slow to even touch WW. Get it?

Also, when did I say ALL Kryptonians? Are you drunk? It's only Monday.....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But that's not my point? I'm glad you've FINALLY read it, remember how confident you were lmao:




Guess he wasn't, lmao. Guess why I chose it?

So again, does WW have a showing where she does the same? My very first question that you ignore. Doesn't matter how fast one needs to be, the point is that it's reserved for the fastest speedsters (for example, Flashes and Kryptonians).

So where does it say ALL Kryptonians? I know reading is not your strong suit, so take your time

Flashes and Kryptonians. I forgot that Kara isn't a kryptonian 🤣

Originally posted by carver9
Flashes and Kryptonians. I forgot that Kara isn't a kryptonian 🤣

Darksaint says: "Humans can run 100m in under 10 seconds"

Carver thinks: "AHA! DS is saying ALL HUMANS CAN RUN 100M IN UNDER 10 SECONDS, THE FOOL!!!" .

You really are rather unintelligent, aren't you?

Not many animals on Earth wear glasses to help them see, like humans do.

Carver9, incredulously: is DS saying ALL humans wear glasses? The fool!!!! Me so smart!

Are you implying Zod is faster than Kara? If not, what's the point of this super speed mode (when she obviously has fts that piss on his). Let me know.

I'm saying - as I've always said - that Zod has speed feats that WW has never shown, which DC and Marvel reserve for their top speedsters (Flashes and Kryptonians - but not all of them lmao!).

And Wonder Woman blitz characters who speed fts piss on Zod. That's what im saying.

Originally posted by carver9
And Wonder Woman blitz characters who speed fts piss on Zod. That's what im saying.
Like who Carver?

Originally posted by carver9
And Wonder Woman blitz characters who speed fts piss on Zod. That's what im saying.

So back to ABC logic. I own you once more lmao.

Wonder woman also consistently fights Cheetah who is faster than Superman in some cases.

I think that shows that she has some level of super speed, even though it is never shown that she has super preceptions since super sense are a hallmark of Kryptonians.

The question is, what is the basis of WW superspeed if she does not have super perceptions/senses?

Are we using super senses as a basis for true superspeed?

Originally posted by TGATES
Wonder woman also consistently fights Cheetah who is faster than Superman in some cases.

I think that shows that she has some level of super speed, even though it is never shown that she has super preceptions since super sense are a hallmark of Kryptonians.

The question is, what is the basis of WW superspeed if she does not have super perceptions/senses?

Are we using super senses as a basis for true superspeed?

Yeah I think the way comics do things, the whole 'world is frozen in time ' is a trope that is reserved for speedsters - the Quicksilvers, Flashes etc.

Assigning a number (that means they're 10x as fast! 2x! 65x!) is meaningless and a fools errand, to me. It would only ever be arbitrary - all it means though, to me, is that they have true superspeed (and not in the same way that Cap or Spidey have, where things are in slow motion - I mean, Hawkman is capable of seeing Flash when he's vibrating invisible, can see a hummingbird's wings beating, but I'm not saying he's got true superspeed).

Originally posted by TGATES
Wonder woman also consistently fights Cheetah who is faster than Superman in some cases.

Cheetah has never been faster than Superman.

We are basing speed as it is shown in comics.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Cheetah has never been faster than Superman.

We are basing speed as it is shown in comics.

Multiple occasions of Cheetah blitzing Superman before he could react, lol.

I mean, ABC logic doesn't really work?

First page of this thread has a powerless Zatanna smashing into Amazo before he could react.

But then the question is, do we assume because she is not overcome by people with superspeed that she is at least comparable to them or can perciecve them adequately enough to defend? I think that is what carver is saying.

The comics also never allude to Diana having other super senses often. I remember one time it was alluded to in a comic about her sight and hearing.

Does she still have the "eyes of Pallas"?

But you all are correct; they never explicitly state that WW is going light speed or her perceptions are lightspeed etc.

Wonder Woman's ability to hear plankton is a notable display of her superhuman senses. This specific instance occurs in Wonder Woman #1 (1987), which is part of the Post-Crisis reboot. In this issue, Wonder Woman demonstrates her enhanced hearing by being able to hear the sound of plankton moving in the water, highlighting the extraordinary extent of her perceptual abilities.

Even though this makes no sense. As water doesn't transmit sound lol. But Its one reference of super hearing, at least

Sorry, by super senses I mean perception speed. So like what Zod and Superman did in space i.e. in the middle of a battlefield, they just went into superspeed mode, their surroundings all suddenly froze in time (relative to them) and they just had a nice long chat and continued pushing each other around etc. THAT'S what I was asking for with WW - can she enter this 'superspeed, world is frozen' type thing.

She does have *some* superspeed, of course she does. But using ABC logic - in a thread where I've shown a powerless Zatanna, and Black Canary, blitzing Amazo before he can react or effect countermeasures (you even see his thought process unable to do anything against Dinah) shows how ineffective this is in comics, where there is no black and white when characters interact with each other, only a smooshy gray.

This exact same Amazo then later on attempts to fight WW and she fights him whilst directly comparing his speed to herself and Superman's - yet Canary blew his head off pretty easily. Zatanna shoulder barged him pretty quickly.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Sorry, by super senses I mean perception speed. So like what Zod and Superman did in space i.e. in the middle of a battlefield, they just went into superspeed mode, their surroundings all suddenly froze in time (relative to them) and they just had a nice long chat and continued pushing each other around etc. THAT'S what I was asking for with WW - can she enter this 'superspeed, world is frozen' type thing.

She does have *some* superspeed, of course she does. But using ABC logic - in a thread where I've shown a powerless Zatanna, and Black Canary, blitzing Amazo before he can react or effect countermeasures (you even see his thought process unable to do anything against Dinah) shows how ineffective this is in comics, where there is no black and white when characters interact with each other, only a smooshy gray.

This exact same Amazo then later on attempts to fight WW and she fights him whilst directly comparing his speed to herself and Superman's - yet Canary blew his head off pretty easily. Zatanna shoulder barged him pretty quickly.

No, she doesn't have instances of her being shown to do that.

But if she was shown to do that, how would that increase the odds of her beating Zod as opposed to what she is already equipped with?

It would categorically show how she would be, in a forum fight where plot is disregarded, have reactions close to/equal/surpassing Zod's.

Plus it would mean I can't lord it over Carver, who only created this thread because he thought he could prove a point.

Originally posted by carver9
Multiple occasions of Cheetah blitzing Superman before he could react, lol.
Really? Do show us those scans Carver.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It would categorically show how she would be, in a forum fight where plot is disregarded, have reactions close to/equal/surpassing Zod's.

Plus it would mean I can't lord it over Carver, who only created this thread because he thought he could prove a point.

Fair point.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Really? Do show us those scans Carver.

She dodges Cyborg attack and blitz towards Superman and bites his neck before he could react. That's one. Want another?


https://i.ibb.co/j8Hk3LZ/the-cheetah-infects-superman-2.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
She dodges Cyborg attack and blitz towards Superman and bites his neck before he could react. That's one. Want another?


https://i.ibb.co/j8Hk3LZ/the-cheetah-infects-superman-2.jpg
She literally ambushes them in a forrest lol. Sure, do show us random out of context scans Carver.

Originally posted by abhilegend
She literally ambushes them in a forrest lol. Sure, do show us random out of context scans Carver.

They are looking right at her. Cyborg is even blasting at her. Superman is looking right at her and still couldn't react fast enough to counter her bite. It's a blitz. Either Cyborg is faster than Superman or Superman couldn't counter her speed. I'm ok with either.

Didn't Steve Trevor blitz that same Cheetah?

Show me. I want to see a blitz. In the same comic, same issue.

Originally posted by carver9
They are looking right at her. Cyborg is even blasting at her. Superman is looking right at her and still couldn't react fast enough to counter her bite. It's a blitz. Either Cyborg is faster than Superman or Superman couldn't counter her speed. I'm ok with either.
Here's the full scene.

https://i.ibb.co/vLCbpt7/8t-GIm-h-Fhz-h-K6-CFpayla8k-Mof5-WGg-PF0do-Via9ub8y-Yt-ZP0ji-V6-O6u-Qfd-Wa-GNvc-MDRh-HRJYRg9s-s1600.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/N1wWDJN/Gs-UZCPX5p-Z4-QMD4wj-FAx-Wrni-Zi-LSI4cf6-IT1a-LQiun7-ULoix8a9-9j-O9u-ROIRSv1-Q7t-XV6-Mp-Ac-s1600-rhl.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/MVJSsDR/qr-CMp-LOTV7-Plo-VFRu9-Oh-Jb-Meb-Wluim4-Dc-Mtybfg60-Yt-W7-QRWLUcf3i-EN5pl-Kt-Hji-Mzmnf-UUDu-H3-G-s16.jpg

Without the element of surprise, ****ing Aquaman subdued her easily.

https://i.ibb.co/rxXkH5g/9-Fhh-Jjhcw4s-Maj-QQnxc-Nw9-XWK2-W3-TNFQyqm-Bn-OYwp5-TC-MKpc-QZ2j-IBKms-Ams-Tfu9m-Hf-KYs-CDin3-s1600.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/m4kzy0y/9ajbsa3c-9-UNtkn-JWQcs5-QWx-Qpp-D7e-Klz-HZ4-Pvh-M5vsh-Kt-EMDYIRo-HMRR6a50-NOGIt2o-OLGfg-WK-s1600-rhl.jpg

I guess Aquaman is faster than Flash and Superman???

Originally posted by carver9
Show me. I want to see a blitz. In the same comic, same issue.

Originally posted by Smurph
I think Abhi's argument is a "Watsonian vs Doylist" thing

Ie using entirely out-of-universe reasons to give a preferable view to power scaling in one medium is Doylist reasoning. But the forum tends to emphasize a Watsonian approach to comparing characters. If you asked a Superman reader whether he changed power levels between different writers, they would agree, but if you asked Batman, he would just think Superman is Superman on any given week.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Here's the full scene.

https://i.ibb.co/vLCbpt7/8t-GIm-h-Fhz-h-K6-CFpayla8k-Mof5-WGg-PF0do-Via9ub8y-Yt-ZP0ji-V6-O6u-Qfd-Wa-GNvc-MDRh-HRJYRg9s-s1600.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/N1wWDJN/Gs-UZCPX5p-Z4-QMD4wj-FAx-Wrni-Zi-LSI4cf6-IT1a-LQiun7-ULoix8a9-9j-O9u-ROIRSv1-Q7t-XV6-Mp-Ac-s1600-rhl.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/MVJSsDR/qr-CMp-LOTV7-Plo-VFRu9-Oh-Jb-Meb-Wluim4-Dc-Mtybfg60-Yt-W7-QRWLUcf3i-EN5pl-Kt-Hji-Mzmnf-UUDu-H3-G-s16.jpg

Without the element of surprise, ****ing Aquaman subdued her easily.

https://i.ibb.co/rxXkH5g/9-Fhh-Jjhcw4s-Maj-QQnxc-Nw9-XWK2-W3-TNFQyqm-Bn-OYwp5-TC-MKpc-QZ2j-IBKms-Ams-Tfu9m-Hf-KYs-CDin3-s1600.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/m4kzy0y/9ajbsa3c-9-UNtkn-JWQcs5-QWx-Qpp-D7e-Klz-HZ4-Pvh-M5vsh-Kt-EMDYIRo-HMRR6a50-NOGIt2o-OLGfg-WK-s1600-rhl.jpg

I guess Aquaman is faster than Flash and Superman???

So she blitzed Flash and Superman. Thanks for the scans. Both saw her coming.

Originally posted by carver9
So she blitzed Flash and Superman. Thanks for the scans. Both saw her coming.
Carver, how are your arms attached to your body?

For Carver? Lips

Originally posted by abhilegend
Here's the full scene.

https://i.ibb.co/vLCbpt7/8t-GIm-h-Fhz-h-K6-CFpayla8k-Mof5-WGg-PF0do-Via9ub8y-Yt-ZP0ji-V6-O6u-Qfd-Wa-GNvc-MDRh-HRJYRg9s-s1600.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/N1wWDJN/Gs-UZCPX5p-Z4-QMD4wj-FAx-Wrni-Zi-LSI4cf6-IT1a-LQiun7-ULoix8a9-9j-O9u-ROIRSv1-Q7t-XV6-Mp-Ac-s1600-rhl.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/MVJSsDR/qr-CMp-LOTV7-Plo-VFRu9-Oh-Jb-Meb-Wluim4-Dc-Mtybfg60-Yt-W7-QRWLUcf3i-EN5pl-Kt-Hji-Mzmnf-UUDu-H3-G-s16.jpg

Without the element of surprise, ****ing Aquaman subdued her easily.

https://i.ibb.co/rxXkH5g/9-Fhh-Jjhcw4s-Maj-QQnxc-Nw9-XWK2-W3-TNFQyqm-Bn-OYwp5-TC-MKpc-QZ2j-IBKms-Ams-Tfu9m-Hf-KYs-CDin3-s1600.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/m4kzy0y/9ajbsa3c-9-UNtkn-JWQcs5-QWx-Qpp-D7e-Klz-HZ4-Pvh-M5vsh-Kt-EMDYIRo-HMRR6a50-NOGIt2o-OLGfg-WK-s1600-rhl.jpg

I guess Aquaman is faster than Flash and Superman???

Cheetahs hate water, though - much like domestic cats.

So, she's at a massive disadvantage in such environment.

Imagine Lex Luthor entering Superman from behind with a kryptonite dildo. Same thing, really.

Nah, cheetahs hate water

Clark would love that

Facts.

100% canon --- Abhiman volume 13 issue 69:

https://i.ibb.co/mqn8Sdj/lutho.png

Running speeds, Clark is faster, combat speed, Diana is faster.

Originally posted by carver9
Running speeds, Clark is faster, combat speed, Diana is faster.

Originally posted by carver9
So she blitzed Flash and Superman. Thanks for the scans. Both saw her coming.

Carver still hasn't spotted it.

How are your arms attached to your body, Carv?

Carver, hello!