Who is faster Flash of DCU or the Elder of the Universe called the Runner of MU?

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unknowable
This should be interesting..

Mordum
well it depends if flash uses the speed force then he can beat runner if not then runner wins. Yo respeck keepin It Realz.

unknowable
Originally posted by Mordum
well it depends if flash uses the speed force then he can beat runner if not then runner wins. Yo respeck keepin It Realz.

Is that your only reason, perhaps you should elaborate. I mean is the speed force that fast?

Runners abilities:
Speed: Warp Speed, transcending light speed
Strength: Incalculable
Agility: Meta-Human
Durability: Physically indestructible
Intelligence: Gifted

This guy transcends light speed, how much faster can the speed force be?

Mordum
well according the scans of flash using speedforce its faster than loghtspeed.

unknowable
Originally posted by Mordum
well according the scans of flash using speedforce its faster than loghtspeed.

I see what your saying but Runner apparently can do warp speed aswell which is faster than light speed. So what I need is examples of why Flashes speedforce would be faster than someone who can break the lightspeed barrier aswell.

Mordum
http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?rpl=050629054718

here you go. Go down a bit and youll find pics of his feats in speed. In one of them he runs through a black hole which even light cannot escape from.

Dizzle
Flash can apparently build up and continually get faster forever. He doesn't start anywhere near as fast as the Runner, who travels across galaxies in the time that it takes Moondragon to cry out in surprise. Flash has done CRAZY stuff with his speed, but his reactions and such haven't been shown to be on par with Runner off the bat. Dude is EASILY the fastest character in comics.

Except for the Batmobile, naturally.

long pig
Yep.
Flash has no cap on his speed, but he needs to build momentum.

Runner logically has a cap on his speed, but it's sooooooo high that it really doesn't matter.

Flash is faster than anyone in the long run.

unknowable
Originally posted by Mordum
http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?rpl=050629054718

here you go. Go down a bit and youll find pics of his feats in speed. In one of them he runs through a black hole which even light cannot escape from.

well that was just about everything I could have ever known about the Flash and the speedforce, it really is amazing, still I read everythingg and there was no known limit to his speed as there is none for Runner but considering aall the things that can be done with the speedforce most importantly time travel, I'll have to now lean towards the speedforce possibly being a greater energy source to use for speed than the Runner's cosmic gem.

But I have to add that I read on the Runner he's so fast that travels the universe laughing and kidding around cause he knows no one can touch him.

long pig
Originally posted by unknowable
well that was just about everything I could have ever known about the Flash and the speedforce, it really is amazing, still I read everythingg and there was no known limit to his speed as there is none for Runner but considering aall the things that can be done with the speedforce most importantly time travel, I'll have to now lean towards the speedforce possibly being a greater energy source to use for speed than the Runner's cosmic gem.

But I have to add that I read on the Runner he's so fast that travels the universe laughing and kidding around cause he knows no one can touch him.
Anyone as fast as Surfer or Runner can time travel. It's pretty common.

Ok, let's say Flash and Runner were going to race.

They start at point A and the race ends at point Z, which is a million lightyears away, but in the middle is point O, which is when Flash enters the speedforce.

Runner would go from A to Z and back a few hundred thousand times before Flash took his first step, but....as soon as Flash hits the speed force, he will win the race.

I've said this a lot, haven't I?

inamilist
Originally posted by long pig
Anyone as fast as Surfer or Runner can time travel. It's pretty common.

Ok, let's say Flash and Runner were going to race.

They start at point A and the race ends at point Z, which is a million lightyears away, but in the middle is point O, which is when Flash enters the speedforce.

Runner would go from A to Z and back a few hundred thousand times before Flash took his first step, but....as soon as Flash hits the speed force, he will win the race.

I've said this a lot, haven't I?

lol, not since both of them can manipulate time

hypothetically, they would both finish before they started, it would just matter who went back further faster.....???? lol

what im interested in is why can the flash run in space?

Mordum
cause he the manz. he can time travel,run in space,run to beginning of time, anything he wants. He the manz. peaze out. 9:30 pm Los Angeles.

Dizzle
Originally posted by inamilist
lol, not since both of them can manipulate time

hypothetically, they would both finish before they started, it would just matter who went back further faster.....???? lol

what im interested in is why can the flash run in space?

See LP's post. Flash can't go back in time if Runner has already finished the race...

inamilist
Originally posted by Dizzle
See LP's post. Flash can't go back in time if Runner has already finished the race...

but now we can get into semantics, yes, it would take flash longer to reach the time travel than runner, but once he was there, he could just move time backwards, theoretically negating the time he spent reaching that point.

the question is who can go back in time faster.... which is kinda impossible IMHO

3.14
has runner ever gone back in time with his speed? just wondering

inamilist
Originally posted by 3.14
has runner ever gone back in time with his speed? just wondering

i think we are assuming that moving faster than the speed of light is traveling back in time (lets not try that one with the physicists smile)

3.14
Originally posted by inamilist
i think we are assuming that moving faster than the speed of light is traveling back in time (lets not try that one with the physicists smile)

Thats what I thought, but I dont think you can do that. Flash does not time travel because he travels faster thent he speed of light, Im pretty sure it is something about his connection with the speed force that allows him to do it. Flash has ran faster then the speed of light before and has not time traveled. Superman has also gone faster then the speed of light (with the help of Flash) and he didnt time travel. Also, there have been a few Marvel characters that have gone faster then the speed of light before and havnt time traveled like Silver Surfer and the Runner. Unless the Runner has actually time traveled before, i dont think you can assume he can time travel just because he goes faster then the speed of light.

inamilist
Originally posted by 3.14
Thats what I thought, but I dont think you can do that. Flash does not time travel because he travels faster thent he speed of light, Im pretty sure it is something about his connection with the speed force that allows him to do it. Flash has ran faster then the speed of light before and has not time traveled. Superman has also gone faster then the speed of light (with the help of Flash) and he didnt time travel. Also, there have been a few Marvel characters that have gone faster then the speed of light before and havnt time traveled like Silver Surfer and the Runner. Unless the Runner has actually time traveled before, i dont think you can assume he can time travel just because he goes faster then the speed of light.

someone had mentioned time travel before, to be honest im not overly familiar with these characters, so i was going with the people who had read the cannon

lol, ya, moving faster than the speed of light does not equal time travel

leonidas
runner isn't even the fastest being in marvel -- makari beat him by entering what appeared to be the mu's equivalent of the speedforce. mak claimed to have found the 'secret of fast'. or something close to that. if it truly is equivalent to the speedforce, and mak could beat him, flash certainly would. would flash beat mak . . .?

not sure about that one because to the best of my knowledge that place mak entered to reach that speed (marvel speedforce) hasn't been more developed in marvel so it's hard to know its limits.

roughrider
I believe one other thing - The Runner, like Northstar, is not a true speedster. In the sense that they can reach enormous speeds, but it doesn't affect their natural reflexes. They don't do things like taking something apart or putting something together in a room - everyday tasks - as a blur in motion, like the Flash or Quicksilver.

klwiggs
Zoom beats both of them, but if I had to choose between Flash and the Runner, I'd go with Flash.

Mordum
Flash can time travel and he also broke the hypertime barrier in which h went to a time where superman was a comic book character.

id369
Runner- greater acceleration, more torque overall.

Flash - greater top end speed, horsepower overall.

Why did I use car terms in a comic book battle? Thought it might help.

long pig
Originally posted by leonidas
runner isn't even the fastest being in marvel -- makari beat him by entering what appeared to be the mu's equivalent of the speedforce. mak claimed to have found the 'secret of fast'. or something close to that. if it truly is equivalent to the speedforce, and mak could beat him, flash certainly would. would flash beat mak . . .?

not sure about that one because to the best of my knowledge that place mak entered to reach that speed (marvel speedforce) hasn't been more developed in marvel so it's hard to know its limits.
That comic doesn't mean anything.

Mik said he finally reached lightspeed, and said that lightspeed is as fast as someone can go.

Which we know is untrue in Marvel. SS does multiples of light, so does Runner.

That comic is better left unread.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by roughrider
I believe one other thing - The Runner, like Northstar, is not a true speedster. In the sense that they can reach enormous speeds, but it doesn't affect their natural reflexes. They don't do things like taking something apart or putting something together in a room - everyday tasks - as a blur in motion, like the Flash or Quicksilver.

I can agree with you on that one. True speedsters would be able to do anything in a blurring motion. Like reading books, reassembling an engine, etc.

leonidas
Originally posted by long pig
That comic doesn't mean anything.

Mik said he finally reached lightspeed, and said that lightspeed is as fast as someone can go.

Which we know is untrue in Marvel. SS does multiples of light, so does Runner.

That comic is better left unread.

thought you were in thor mode, not quasar mode . . . wink

anyway, checking through that issue it seems you were . . . mostly correct. funny how you read that differently than i did. for some reason, i'd chosen to take that 'he becomes light' line (narrated, not spoken by mak) at the end of the race as a metaphor rather than a literal depiction of what happened. you may be right though in your reading of it. there's also the bit at the start where he's in that training tunnel and it says the speed of light does not hold sway in the tunnel, which again led me to think that perhaps he was able to break the speed of light. of one thing there IS no doubt -- the issue DID suck -- BIG time . . .

on a bit of a different note, light speed in marvel is handled very differently/inconsistently from book to book. sometimes when speed>c characters enter hyperspace. sometimes warp space. sometimes they go back in time. and sometimes (ala the infamous glads moving at '100x c') they just . . . move that fast within the universe.

marvel really should decide exactly what DOES happen when one of their characters achieves speed>c.

long pig
Originally posted by leonidas
thought you were in thor mode, not quasar mode . . . wink

anyway, checking through that issue it seems you were . . . mostly correct. funny how you read that differently than i did. for some reason, i'd chosen to take that 'he becomes light' line (narrated, not spoken by mak) at the end of the race as a metaphor rather than a literal depiction of what happened. you may be right though in your reading of it. there's also the bit at the start where he's in that training tunnel and it says the speed of light does not hold sway in the tunnel, which again led me to think that perhaps he was able to break the speed of light. of one thing there IS no doubt -- the issue DID suck -- BIG time . . .

on a bit of a different note, light speed in marvel is handled very differently/inconsistently from book to book. sometimes when speed>c characters enter hyperspace. sometimes warp space. sometimes they go back in time. and sometimes (ala the infamous glads moving at '100x c') they just . . . move that fast within the universe.

marvel really should decide exactly what DOES happen when one of their characters achieves speed>c.
Yes, it sucked the biggun.

But....it WAS a Quasar comic, so what can you expect?

leonidas
yes

inamilist
Originally posted by leonidas

marvel really should decide exactly what DOES happen when one of their characters achieves speed>c.

ya, tell that to the scientific community too!

lazy good for nothing theoretical astrophysicists!

leonidas
Originally posted by inamilist
ya, tell that to the scientific community too!

lazy good for nothing theoretical astrophysicists!

laughing out loud

unknowable
Runner may not be a speedster per say, but he runs(obviously) and this competition is a race not a dual.

As for the speed of light, Gladiator of the Kree Empire flew a hundred times the speed of light from Pluto to Earth in Fantastic Four #249, he got to earth in seconds needless to say but he didn't travel through time. So if time travel occurs through velocity, then you have to flip light speed hundreds of times possibly more.

By the way lets not forget that Runner has dedicated obsessively the last Five Billion years of his existence to the art of speed.

Psycho Ninja
Dont believe in marvel's character words....

Million explodin sun blah blah blah....
art of speed blah balh balh......

unknowable
Originally posted by Psycho Ninja
Dont believe in marvel's character words....

Million explodin sun blah blah blah....
art of speed blah balh balh......

that makes a lot of sense.
Although it will make even more sense when I master the ART of deciphering belligerance.

Mider
in one incarnation the flash was suppose to be so fast he could be everywere at once so i dont think the runner is that fast compared to that.

Juntai
Flash is as fast as he needs to be, period. When he turns it high end, he just steps through time. Or stops time and moves.

JOE NUNEZ
IN A FIGHT RUNNER WOULD KILL FLASH DEAD.....SORRY FAN BOYS....

Mider
how is that being a fan boy to say the truth read kingdom or kingdom come all the characters had been powered up to amazing levels even the villains and flash had been powered up to the point were he had total controll of the speed force and be everywere at once if they had a race there would be no point flash would already be at the finish line get it there is nothing fanboyish about that i like thanos but unlike the real fanboys i dont say stuff like oh he can beat the queen of fables or he can defeat a none jobberseid darkseid now thats fanboyism get the two straight.

Azeld
Flash runs across the earth,while the Runner runs across galaxies. That pretty much sums up the difference in there speed.

Mider
hmmm was speed force flash everywere or just on earth?

JOE NUNEZ
flash is not class 100 while runner is a class 1000000,00000000,000000000000000000000000000000

Mider
was the flash able to travel outside of the earth in kingdom or kingdom come?

Mider
in a race from a to b the runner would have to go all the way from a to b even if its a nano second but the flash at full potential would be at point b already before the race even strated in fact he could be at both point a and b at the same time at full potential flash wins this why is this debate still going?

klintypooh
Because you touch yourself at night.

JOE NUNEZ
hey who would win in a fight ruuuunnnnneeeerrrrrrrrrr.......

unknowable
Originally posted by Mider
how is that being a fan boy to say the truth read kingdom or kingdom come all the characters had been powered up to amazing levels even the villains and flash had been powered up to the point were he had total controll of the speed force and be everywere at once.


actually hea was everywhere at once, but only in the city he was protecting, not the entire world.

Juntai
Originally posted by unknowable
actually hea was everywhere at once, but only in the city he was protecting, not the entire world. And in multiple dimensions and times.

unknowable
Originally posted by JOE NUNEZ
flash is not class 100 while runner is a class 1000000,00000000,000000000000000000000000000000


Runner is stronger than Flash no doubt, but Runner is not class 100 to the 40th power iether, that's an exaggeration.

In any case this is a race not fight.

unknowable
Originally posted by Juntai
And in multiple dimensions and times.

true, he did shift in and out of dimensions in Kingdom Come, but he did this unwittingly and there for didn't have total control over it, this is why he found the old man hanging with spectre towards the end of the series, if he trully was everywhere, in every dimension at the same time, he would have seen him from the very start.

Juntai
Originally posted by unknowable
Runner is stronger than Flash no doubt, but Runner is not class 100 to the 40th power iether, that's an exaggeration.

In any case this is a race not fight. Yep.


Flash still hits like a champ tho.
He can hit with the force of a star.

unknowable
Originally posted by Juntai
Yep.


Flash still hits like a champ tho.
He can hit with the force of a star.

wow really, didn't know that, that's pretty darn powerful then.

the Darkone
The runner is in class 100 in strength can increase it with his primodial powers, even silver surfer stated that you are stronger than me. The Runner runs at war-speed out the gate. The Runner can increase his other abilities at will with the primodial powers including his speed. King Come Flash could be equal with The Runner in speed other than that The Runner is more powerful.

Juntai
Originally posted by the Darkone
The runner is in class 100 in strength can increase it with his primodial powers, even silver surfer stated that you are stronger than me. The Runner runs at war-speed out the gate. The Runner can increase his other abilities at will with the primodial powers including his speed. King Come Flash could be equal with The Runner in speed other than that The Runner is more powerful. Flash can warpspeed instantly as well, time and dimension travel, hit with the force of stars, instantly regenerate, etc.

I'm not arguing who can win a fight though.

When he's using the full effect of the speedforce, time pretty much stops altogether, so it doesn't actually take time to move. One of his first trips into the speedforce dimension, he was -walking- ftls around the planet with Max Mercury.

unknowable
Originally posted by Juntai
Flash can warpspeed instantly as well, time and dimension travel, hit with the force of stars, instantly regenerate, etc.






I agree, except the dimesion traveling, if your refering to kingdom come that is, i know for a fact he did not have total control over his dimension jumping.
but he did shift in and out of dimesions all the time, but randomly without order.

Juntai
Originally posted by unknowable
I agree, except the dimesion traveling, if your refering to kingdom come that is, i know for a fact he did not have total control over his dimension jumping.
but he did shift in and out of dimesions all the time, but randomly without order. He also had flight, looking on page 77.

Juntai
And he's not in ALL dimension but it appears as though can control it.

"I heard Flash described as a man too fast to be contained by one plane of existance. Apperently entire strate of realities are open to him. So settled am I in my role as a spirit... that I had forgotten that fact."

And apperently can pull souls between dimensions, as done at that moment.

But in that initial post, I was refering to CURRENT Flash being able to do all of those things via speedforce and superspeed.

unknowable
Originally posted by Juntai
He also had flight, looking on page 77.

true,

but look at the page where he finds the old man, chillin in another dimension with spectre, it explains how Flash is always transitioning from one dimension to another, but apparently without order, which suggest he does this unconciously,
without control.
but perhaps he could concentrate and shift into a specific dimension(i don't know)but he's definately not in every dimension at once.

unknowable
Originally posted by Juntai
And he's not in ALL dimension but it appears as though can control it.

"I heard Flash described as a man too fast to be contained by one plane of existance. Apperently entire strate of realities are open to him. So settled am I in my role as a spirit... that I had forgotten that fact."

And apperently can pull souls between dimensions, as done at that moment.

But in that initial post, I was refering to CURRENT Flash being able to do all of those things via speedforce and superspeed.

oh ok, i was only focusing on kingdom come.

Flash is no joke.

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