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Hercules
(Immortal)





vs.




Black Adam

Herc kicks his ass. Black Adam's just a Namor-ripoff.

Hercules. Half-God Hercules is Thor-level. Imagine Immortal Hercules.

Originally posted by LegendsNeverDie
Herc kicks his ass. Black Adam's just a Namor-ripoff.
They do act a lot alike.

I think it's kick ass the way Black Adam refuses to sit or stand next to mortals, instead he hovers a few inches off the ground.

Black Adam is faster than Herc. and can fly. Probably equal in strength.

Herc dies.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Black Adam is faster than Herc. and can fly. Probably equal in strength.

Herc dies.

Wow. Speed + Flight = Death?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Wow. Speed + Flight = Death? When your opponent don't have it.

It sure helps them get there alot faster.

Originally posted by long pig

I think it's kick ass the way Black Adam refuses to sit or stand next to mortals, instead he hovers a few inches off the ground.

Yeah...he's even more arrogant then Namor.

Immortal Hercules stomps a mud hole in Black Adam ass. Immortal Hercules is stronger, more durable and a better brawler than Black Adam.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
When your opponent don't have it.

It sure helps them get there alot faster.

Speed isn't everything. Besides, Hercules has FTL superspeed. He just doesn't like using it.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Speed isn't everything. Besides, Hercules has FTL superspeed. He just doesn't like using it. Sh!t I forgot.

Everybody in marvel has FTL speed.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Speed isn't everything. Besides, Hercules has FTL superspeed. He just doesn't like using it.
That's Wolverine, silly.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Sh!t I forgot.

Everybody in marvel has FTL speed.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Immortal Hercules stomps a mud hole in Black Adam ass. Immortal Hercules is stronger, more durable and a better brawler than Black Adam. I don't think so slick.

Cap. Marvel has the stength of Immortal Herc. BA is stronger than CM.

Originally posted by long pig
That's Wolverine, silly.
R&R

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I don't think so slick.

Cap. Marvel has the stength of Immortal Herc. BA is stronger than CM.

He has the strength of Dc hercules not marvels, DC hercules and Marvel hercules are different from each other. Immortal Hercules strength is greater > captain marvel & Black Adam.

Originally posted by the Darkone
He has the strength of Dc hercules not marvels, DC hercules and Marvel hercules are different from each other. Immortal Hercules strength is greater > captain marvel & Black Adam. In your opinion ofcourse.

I'll go with Hercules. Black Adam is nowhere near the fighter Hercules is. Just think Gladiator vs. Hyperion. Black Adam's definitely a better fighter than Hyperion, but Hercules has been fighting all sorts of monsters and gods for thousands of years.

If Black Adam tries dodge in and out of the fight with his flight, Hercules will just hit him with part of a mountain, a building, or whatever's at hand like he did against Nova.

If Black Adam tries to fly him into outer space. Hercules will put a chokehold on him, leaving BA in a crater after he passes out and crashes into the ground.

I don't see BA using either of these strategies, though. He's arrogant and would want to beat Hercules into the ground. In this case, BA gets beaten straight up or out-wrestled.

Hercules 7-8/10

Originally posted by JohnR
I'll go with Hercules. Black Adam is nowhere near the fighter Hercules is. Just think Gladiator vs. Hyperion. Black Adam's definitely a better fighter than Hyperion, but Hercules has been fighting all sorts of monsters and gods for thousands of years.

If Black Adam tries dodge in and out of the fight with his flight, Hercules will just hit him with part of a mountain, a building, or whatever's at hand like he did against Nova.

If Black Adam tries to fly him into outer space. Hercules will put a chokehold on him, leaving BA in a crater after he passes out and crashes into the ground.

I don't see BA using either of these strategies, though. He's arrogant and would want to beat Hercules into the ground. In this case, BA gets beaten straight up or out-wrestled.

Hercules 7-8/10

Black Adam has 3000 years of fighting experince, can fly, and is way faster than Herc. Black Adam wins.

Black Adam is a beastly. I can't see him losing this fight. This is the same guy that has busted up the JSA 3 times.

Yah i concur, BA wins this

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Speed isn't everything. Besides, Hercules has FTL superspeed. He just doesn't like using it.
Since when? I've never heard of this.

i need 2 things:

issue numbers where this 'immortal herc' has appeared and a place where it says in a book somewhere that their is a difference between this 'immortal' herc and this so called 'demi-god' herc and that one is stronger than the other.

strongest version of herc i've seen is the avengers run, champions run and the herc ltd series that isn't canon.

ba likely beats that one 6-7/10. strength would be comparable (not enough of a difference to decide this fight) and skills would also be comparable. ba is one nasty biatch and held off both cm AND supes simultaneously for a short time. skill and strength are too close so i look at other factors. speed and flight are big enough advantages to give ba the majority, methinks, and i'd go with ba in durability.

"Speed isn't everything. Besides, Hercules has FTL superspeed. He just doesn't like using it"

Hush man. Keep it a secret.



"Cap. Marvel has the stength of Immortal Herc. BA is stronger than CM."

Where did he showed to be stronger? Hes more ruthless, Billy isent. They both always seemed even. And Billy has wins against him.



"Originally posted by the Darkone
He has the strength of Dc hercules not marvels, DC hercules and Marvel hercules are different from each other. Immortal Hercules strength is greater > captain marvel & Black Adam.

In your opinion ofcourse."

He did got one thing right. The strenght its from DC Hercules, not Marvel one.



"Black Adam has 3000 years of fighting experince"

Hercules wheter in DC or Marvel has centuries of fighting experience as well.



"Since when? I've never heard of this."

he was joking.......................maaaan.



"issue numbers where this 'immortal herc' has appeared and a place where it says in a book somewhere that their is a difference between this 'immortal' herc and this so called 'demi-god' herc and that one is stronger than the other. "

Immortal Herc showed up since the 60`s until the 90`s when he got depowered.

Ancient demi God Herc strenghtwise its the same as Immortal. He did do all his crazy famous feats back then after all. His strenght was already godlike.

The difference between ancient demi god mode and immortal its that.....firstly one would die and the "other" doesnt.

> Demi god didnt had durability higher than a human athlete.

> Immortal has a high degree of invulnerability.

> Demi could tire. (even he already had quite the high stamina, but still could tire.)

> Immortal doesnt. (virtual tireless).

The differences wer always on the -other- physical stats never the strenght.

Its how i see it. If immortal was ever stated to be -even- stronger, i dont see much evidence of that.

And just for grabs, when Marvel depowered him in the 90`s, he got back to his demigod days. The only difference was that the strenght wasent godlike as before. Wich means depowered Herc was way less in strenght than in the ancient times, as well as when Immortal.

(confused? Take an aspirin, you will feel better).



"ba is one nasty biatch and held off both cm AND supes simultaneously for a short time.

Wasnt that pre crisis, Leo?

As for the fight in question. I see it like many other examples.

All powers, definatly the majority to BA.

H2H or a pure slugfest id give more advantages to Herc. Its more his strong point than the first example.

<<Wasnt that pre crisis, Leo?>>

that's true, but still impressive nonetheless and i'm not sure ba really became 'depowered' after crisis.

so what i've said all along about herc was right. there really was no real differences -- 'cept for the mortal one. all this immortal/demi-god stuff is forum speak and not necessary. only one that really needs to be id'd is the mortal one that was around for only a very short time.

why the heck do people on insist on making things so damn complex?

I would give the edge to Black Adam. Most people forget his powers are powers stamina of Shu, the swiftness of Heru (Horus), the strength of Amon, the wisdom of Zehuti (Thoth), the power of Aton, and the courage of Mehen. The key being the wisdom of Zehuti as you can make the case that they are on a similar level strength and experience wise. Add in the fact that BA is smarter and can fly. He takes the majority 6-7/10 IMO

Hercules had a mini-series around 1997/98 after Onslaught, when he'd returned from space after escorting Deathcry home. He had been depowered awhile ago in Avengers before Onslaught. Zeus took away his immortality--it left him very powerful, but stripped him of a quarter to a half of his strength depending on the writer. Anyways, he had a three issue mini-series where he helps SHIELD out, fights the minotaur, muses how it gave him lots of trouble as a true immortal, but gets super determined and kicks its ass--showing us he's had awesome potential all the time but dubs around too much.

In Hulk:Hercules Unleashed, he gets his ass kicked by the Hulk, puts up a good fight, but to no avail really. However, they go to Olympus, to find out where Hercules' comrades--the Avengers--have gone. Zeus offers to grant him one wish, Hercules wishes to find their location--Zeus gets mad that Herc didn't ask for his immortality and power back, since he's one of Zeus favored sons, and Zeus kind of wanted an excuse to go against his own previous decree and welcome his estranged son back with open arms.

I don't know what issue he lost his some of his power in, but those are two places where they tell us explicitly that he has, and show how he has become weaker.

I want to see Hercules win this battle, he's a goofy, powerful, fun character, but Black Adam has the edge with a greater variety of powers.

Black Adam is not = Captain Marvel in strenght. Captain Marvel gets his strenght from Hercules, a demigod/god. Black Adam gets his strenght from Aton/Aten, who is the Egyptian skyfather.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aton

BA 7/10.

"that's true, but still impressive nonetheless and i'm not sure ba really became 'depowered' after crisis"

Not sure about that. They all did. Marvel has won against Adam alone and pre crisis i dont recall him doing that. He and Superman usually needed to team up against him.



"so what i've said all along about herc was right. there really was no real differences -- 'cept for the mortal one. all this immortal/demi-god stuff is forum speak and not necessary. only one that really needs to be id'd is the mortal one that was around for only a very short time"

Yes, Ancient demi god and Immortal arent different in strenght. You know the myths yourself Leo. He had crazy stuff even back then.

In order for immortal to be even stronger, his regular feats would have to be higher than they are. On the same token his high ends would have to surpass the planetary level, wich is where the highest feat he had belongs to.

But its not what happens. Immortal Herc higher feats are still in planetary category, not above.



"Zeus took away his immortality--it left him very powerful, but stripped him of a quarter to a half of his strength depending on the writer."

You really mean very powerful? I dont see how. He was stated to have lost half of his powers (strenght included) as well as loss of immortality.

Very powerful if you compared with guys like Spiderman. He was around cl 50 by then.

Tecnically that low powered Herc lasted from since he got depowered- to that space travel- Hulk fight- Heroes for Hire- that 3 issue minieries "Heart of Chaos" - first stories of the new Avengers run with Perez like Nefarius fight.

After those stories he has been gotten stronger and back to top tier.



"I don't know what issue he lost his some of his power in, but those are two places where they tell us explicitly that he has, and show how he has become weaker."

Around issue 361....something like that. Two runs ago.



"Black Adam is not = Captain Marvel in strenght. Captain Marvel gets his strenght from Hercules, a demigod/god. Black Adam gets his strenght from Aton/Aten, who is the Egyptian skyfather"

They are mostly written as equals tho where post crisis is concerned.

Well Superman said it himself that Teth hits harder than Billy.

Going by feats Teth is definitely above Billy. Black Adam is just insane.

We all know hes more ruthless and violent and more prone to use what he got.

Billy like Superman its known to hold back. And its not ruthless.

In true im not saying BA cant be a tad stronger, but the margin has to be minimal, considering Billy has won against Adam before.

Assuming Black Adam has the strength of DC Hercules then I don't think he's comparable to Marvel Herk. DC Hercules is below Wonder Woman in strength and she is below Superman. Marvel Hercules IIRC did once hold up the weight of the Earth on his back which IMO is a feat well above any Superman has single-handedly performed after Crisis. I don't think Black Adam is even close if he is only as strong as DC Hercules. And what annoys me about DC fans is that they think that anybody who has super-speed automatically uses it all the time. How often do you ever even see a guy like Superman actually fight at super-speed? Maybe a few times throughout his whole career? Exactly. Speed is not that important. And I don't know Black Adam that well but I do know that Hercules is a pretty danged great fighter, tho I'm not sure if he's as good as Thor. But if BA is just some Superman clone then I think Herk can do it.

Originally posted by Uberking Robert
Assuming Black Adam has the strength of DC Hercules then I don't think he's comparable to Marvel Herk. DC Hercules is below Wonder Woman in strength and she is below Superman. Marvel Hercules IIRC did once hold up the weight of the Earth on his back which IMO is a feat well above any Superman has single-handedly performed after Crisis. I don't think Black Adam is even close if he is only as strong as DC Hercules. And what annoys me about DC fans is that they think that anybody who has super-speed automatically uses it all the time. How often do you ever even see a guy like Superman actually fight at super-speed? Maybe a few times throughout his whole career? Exactly. Speed is not that important. And I don't know Black Adam that well but I do know that Hercules is a pretty danged great fighter, tho I'm not sure if he's as good as Thor. But if BA is just some Superman clone then I think Herk can do it. Go to the Superman respect thread to see Supes using speed more than a few times like you stated.

He just used it in the latest Superman issue.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Supermanvortexin.jpg

Black Adam doesn't have the strength of D.C. Hercules, Billy does.
Adam has the strength of Amon (who has similar position as Zeus) for what it is worth.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Speed isn't everything. Besides, Hercules has FTL superspeed. He just doesn't like using it. Hercules has speed quicker than the speed of light? wow...

If we're talking about the comic book characters, Hercules and Black Adam, and not some abstract power rankings/RPG-like stats, Hercules and Black Adam would likely fight hand-to-hand.

Hercules would be amazed at Black Adam's strength, speed, and toughness, but in the end, Hercules is just a better fighter (IMO, natch) and would win.

Hercules fought the Thunderbolts and had the edge against the whole team. Atlas knew he didn't have a chance and was willing to sacrifice himself if it meant saving the team. This is similar, but less impressive, than BA holding his own against the JSA. Do I think Hercules could beat the JSA? No, but that's comparing apples and oranges. Black Adam's speed, strength, and durability make him a good fight against a team, Hercules powers generally don't.

In a hand-to-hand battle, though, Hercules has shown capable of standing up to anyone. When Eric Masterson Thor was possessed by Ares, Hercules beat him even when holding back. He used his great skill to hold him down while using his strength to force the hammer to strike the ground and trigger the transformation from Thor to human-form.

There is no way Black Adam is stronger than Hercules. When Hercules and Thor arm-wrestled they were said to be generating enough force to knock the Earth out of orbit. What's Black Adam's top feat?

Originally posted by DrDoom101
Hercules has speed quicker than the speed of light? wow...

Where was this stated?

"Assuming Black Adam has the strength of DC Hercules then I don't think he's comparable to Marvel Herk. DC Hercules is below Wonder Woman in strength and she is below Superman"

There isent evidence that WW is above DC Heracles in strenght, post crisis.


"Hercules has speed quicker than the speed of light? wow"

.....Its a joke. Get it? Amazing how many people dont get it.

Originally posted by dvampire
Where was this stated? i never said he had speed quicker than the speed of light. Look at my quote. That guy said it. FTL=faster than light. If thats not it, then what does FTL mean?

It does mean faster than ligh speeds.

But get over it, CC said it as a joke

Originally posted by olympian


There isent evidence that WW is above DC Heracles in strenght, post crisis.

Yes there is.

You just don't want to accept it.

Originally posted by DrDoom101
i never said he had speed quicker than the speed of light. Look at my quote. That guy said it. FTL=faster than light. If thats not it, then what does FTL mean?

My bad!

Black Adam has never been shown to be stronger than Captain Marvel. Of course he hit Superman harder he hates him unlike Billy who kind of looks up to him and has nver been in a position to go all out on supes.

Captain Marvel has always shown to be Teth Adams mathc when they fight. In fact he has restrained Black Adam when he was trying to beat Up Adam Smasher.

Both Black Adam and Marvle get their powers from Shazaam like Mary does theyjust use different names for who they get thier powers from. After all if he really got his strength form Hercules wouldn't that leave Herc as apowerless human?

Billy tried to restrain Adam but he failed. It eventually took the entire JSA to pull Adam off of Atom Smasher.

And Supes has fought an angry and all out CM before.

He flew towards Atom Smasher Marvel collided with him and stopped him dead in his tracks. He couldn't go forward at all while billy was holding him back. He threw an elbow at billy's face to break the hold and keep going but he never outright overpowered him. Also it didn't take the entire JSA as Jakeem, Alan Scott, Power Girl or doctor fate were there.

The guys he fought were Terrific, Hawkgirl, Sandy, Wild Cat and Adam smasher. Hell Billly wasn't even involved in that scuffle after he let Adam go.

Quote by Warmonger "Of course he hit Superman harder he hates him..."


When Adam fought Supes, he wasnt trying to hurt him at all. Hell, he didnt even want to fight Superman.

Adam was holding back yet Supes said he hits harder than Cap.

Also the only time I know that Marvel went all out he charged his fists with some sort of magical energy and knocked him out. So if he says Adam hit him harder than a punch that actually put him down, versus getting right back up after beign hit by adam.. well thats your call.

Originally posted by Warmonger
He flew towards Atom Smasher Marvel collided with him and stopped him dead in his tracks. He couldn't go forward at all while billy was holding him back. He threw an elbow at billy's face to break the hold and keep going but he never outright overpowered him. Also it didn't take the entire JSA as Jakeem, Alan Scott, Power Girl or doctor fate were there.

The guys he fought were Terrific, Hawkgirl, Sandy, Wild Cat and Adam smasher. Hell Billly wasn't even involved in that scuffle after he let Adam go.
There was never an elbow thrown. Teth and Billy collided in mid air which stopped them both for a time. Next page we see Adam ramming into Atom Smasher with Billy on his back. Then Atom Smasher threw Billy off Teth so he could continue with Adam.

You might be right about that I'm tearing up the house looking for the issue. But I've never seen Black Adam outright over power Billy.

And if what I heard about the magic lightning charged fist is true (I have seen a pic but never the issue) then SUpes saying he hit harder than Billy is about as reliable as him saying that THor was the hardest opponent he has aever faced.

Originally posted by Warmonger
He flew towards Atom Smasher Marvel collided with him and stopped him dead in his tracks. He couldn't go forward at all while billy was holding him back. He threw an elbow at billy's face to break the hold and keep going but he never outright overpowered him. Also it didn't take the entire JSA as Jakeem, Alan Scott, Power Girl or doctor fate were there.

What fight was that?

Originally posted by Warmonger
The guys he fought were Terrific, Hawkgirl, Sandy, Wild Cat and Adam smasher. Hell Billly wasn't even involved in that scuffle after he let Adam go.

Power Girl and Fate already felt the wrath of Adam and were able to do nothing. Adam was about to crush Fate helmet and he seemed almost helpless to stop it.

What fight are you reffering to?

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4227/27088cu.th.jpg http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3783/27093nu.th.jpg http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2316/27100my.th.jpg

That was the extent of that confrontation.

Originally posted by jrodslam
What fight was that?



Power Girl and Fate already felt the wrath of Adam and were able to do nothing. Adam was about to crush Fate helmet and he seemed almost helpless to stop it.

What fight are you reffering to?

You are talking about the fight during Black Reign. That is where he beat up Power Girl. I honestly don't remeber waht part Fate played in that fight but it wouldn't surprise me that Fate got the crap beaten out of him. For all the hype the guy seems to be unable to do anything agains't big name villians. Adam, the Thunderbolt, Onimar Syn.

When the scene that Ion showed happened Power Girls wasn't in the JSA at the time as well Alan Scott and Fate wern't present.

Originally posted by The Ion
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4227/27088cu.th.jpg http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3783/27093nu.th.jpg http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2316/27100my.th.jpg

That was the extent of that confrontation.

Yeah that looks right.

"Yes there is.

You just don't want to accept it."


Everytime you come up with this you never prove it.

The only thing you have its claims shes stronger the same way Herc has claims hes stronger.

So show me what exactly i dont want to accept.

Originally posted by olympian
"Yes there is.

You just don't want to accept it."


Everytime you come up with this you never prove it.

The only thing you have its claims shes stronger the same way Herc has claims hes stronger.

So show me what exactly i dont want to accept. Neither one is claiming anything here.

Geoff Johns and DC is.

I say that their strength is about equal give or take a few tons but BA has way more powers going for him, but Hercs fighting skill is off the charts, so i truly dont know who would win the encounter and i have to tally this one up as a tie. 5/5

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Neither one is claiming anything here.

Geoff Johns and DC is.

that's about good enough for me . . .

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Neither one is claiming anything here.

Geoff Johns and DC is.
That bastard...

"Neither one is claiming anything here.

Geoff Johns and DC is."


Thats her name pun as in secret files/DC Guide lite.

Ill make it easier for you :

Give me examples on a written comic -showing- her as stronger.

Cmon, you can do it.

Originally posted by olympian
"Neither one is claiming anything here.

Geoff Johns and DC is."


Thats her name pun as in secret files/DC Guide lite.

Ill make it easier for you :

Give me examples on a written comic -showing- her as stronger.

Cmon, you can do it. Just like I predicted. You won't accept it but everyone else does.

It doesn't really matter whether Wonder Woman is stronger than (DC) Hercules or not. The question is whether she's stronger than Black Adam. Based on Black Adam's showing against Superman, she's not.

You can't try to use slogans as proof. Wonder Woman is stronger than Hercules and yet Captain Marvel's "Strength of Hercules" has matched Superman's strength twice in arm-wrestling matches post-Crisis. Is this because he's using the Strength of Hercules augmented by the Stamina of Atlas or the Power of Zeus? Who knows? But it doesn't really matter because the evidence supports the view that Black Adam and Captain Marvel are generally seen as peers to Superman in strength, while Wonder Woman is a (small) notch below.

Originally posted by JohnR
It doesn't really matter whether Wonder Woman is stronger than (DC) Hercules or not. The question is whether she's stronger than Black Adam. Based on Black Adam's showing against Superman, she's not.

You can't try to use slogans as proof. Wonder Woman is stronger than Hercules and yet Captain Marvel's "Strength of Hercules" has matched Superman's strength twice in arm-wrestling matches post-Crisis. Is this because he's using the Strength of Hercules augmented by the Stamina of Atlas or the Power of Zeus? Who knows?
We do know since he stated he was using the strength of Atlas in the arm wrestling match and all his powers are further amplified by Zeus. Plus Wonder Woman and CM have fought evenly in the past.

Originally posted by The Ion
We do know since he stated he was using the strength of Atlas in the arm wrestling match and all his powers are further amplified by Zeus. Plus Wonder Woman and CM have fought evenly in the past.

True.

However in post crisis tests of strength between Supes and Cap, the combination of powers werent mentioned. So the question is does he still stack the powers? That we dont know for sure. But i do think that from now on all writers will have Cap use Hercs strength and yet still be equal with Supes instead of stacking.

"Just like I predicted. You won't accept it but everyone else does."


You know the difference of what you posted and me asking who is stronger between Hulk and character x (insert name here) and someome giving me a scan of an opening Hulk comic page where his tag line: (caracter story and "the strongest there is" part) is?

None.

Since -when- do we make comparations based on tag lines that are used to sell the character?

I guess all discussions about Marvel and Superman can end because by his tag line Marvel is superior in every way. He is the EARTH`S -mighest- mortal after all

Tag lines arent accurate snoppy. Hulk isent in MU the strongest one there is. Got it? Lets put that tag line of WW on the test to see if it really fits. Here is a homework for you.


> Give me instances where WW has raced Hermes and won, post crisis.


> And since we are at it, and post crisis Hermes and Mercury wer separated entities (one being the avatar of the other) give me an instance where she proved faster than Mercury as well.


> Give me examples where she being together with Heracles proved stronger than he did.


> What opponents both fought/encountered, that she won and he failed? On the same token how many on the other way around?


> How many times Heracles and WW fougth post crisis and how many times was showed a winner.


> Wich of the two was called equal to Atlas and was stated to have held the Earth same as he did?



This is bound to be fun. Ill get some popckorns and watch.

The problem with the mightiest mortal line, is that Supes isn't exactly mortal. He's alive in the 853rd century and still looked like he was going strong. Although as we've seen, he can die, he certainly ranks in the immortal category.

He ages and can die. Thats not immortality per se.

Altho it takes quite alot for him to age, still.

Originally posted by olympian
He ages and can die. Thats not immortality per se.

Altho it takes quite alot for him to age, still. Same with the Guardians of the Universe, but they hold that tag too, and many many many many other characters.