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when Sidious tells Anakin about the tragedy of Darth Plagueis (probly spelt wrong) The Wise, he said that he taught everything including how to do save lives to his apprentice, still following me? good. now, how come when Anakin turns to the Dark Side, Sidious says that it is a power only one has achieved, and yet he was his apprentice and Plagueis taught him how. Did he actually know how?

well, palpatine never told anakin that he(palpatine) was the apprentice

Maybe, just a thought, but maybe Plageius taught him the power, but Sidius himself hadn't yet acheived it
"A power only one has achieved." There is difference between teaching, and doing

Originally posted by Wind Sister
Maybe, just a thought, but maybe Plageius taught him the power, but Sidius himself hadn't yet acheived it
"A power only one has achieved." There is difference between teaching, and doing

that makes sense and all, but i thought Sidious was supposed to be the most powerful sith ever, so it couldnt take that long for him to learn it, just a thought.

Sidious was powerful because he was cunning, he could work for years to do but one thing, and succeed at that. Maybe he never truly felt the need to learn that power, except on himself. There is also a huge chance that Sidious was lying, like someone else said.

probably he was lying just to lure Anakin to the Dark Side...if he could cheat dead...then it's also ironic that he couldn't keep himself from dying

Originally posted by General G
that makes sense and all, but i thought Sidious was supposed to be the most powerful sith ever, so it couldnt take that long for him to learn it, just a thought. Oh no, definetely not the most powerful, not even DE Sidious would qualify for that rank.

But that's what the Sith do...they lie. They cheat. They do what it takes to obtain their goals. He appealed to Anakin's sense of fear over losing Padme. He knew about the dreams, and of their marriage, so he used this secret knowledge to his advantage.

By the time Anakin had sworn allegiance to Palpatine, he had, in the last 5 minutes, seen Mace Windu try to kill Palpatine, helped in Mace's death, seen firsthand the power or Palpatine, and for what Anakin knew, see very powerful Sith abilities. He was too overwhelmed by the situation to question Palpatine's earlier story, and indeed Palpatine's life.

It seems Palps was lying because first he says that according to Legend only one Sith could cheat death, but when Annikan crosses to the dark side Palps says how to do it is still an unknown but he be sure to figure it out. In other words, the hell that Palps knows. But mission accomplished. Evil will use whatever means to con, cheat and sucker to get what it wants.

Palpatine was lying. Simple as that.

pretty much yeah

actually in a way he kind of wasnt

he had the power to create life but not to defy death

Palpatine? uh no, unless you mean that biblically

Originally posted by General G
when Sidious tells Anakin about the tragedy of Darth Plagueis (probly spelt wrong) The Wise, he said that he taught everything including how to do save lives to his apprentice, still following me? good. now, how come when Anakin turns to the Dark Side, Sidious says that it is a power only one has achieved, and yet he was his apprentice and Plagueis taught him how. Did he actually know how?

That's a good question. But like everyone else is saying, Sidious was flat out lying. Palpatine made up a story to get Anakin to think he could stop him from losing one of his attachments. That's where Anakin was most vulnerable.

I think its clear that Palpatine was lying to Anakin. He knew where his fears lay, and that he was worried about Padme dying. Its likely that Palps knew that Padme would die if Anakin went to the Darkside, but would he care? Of course not. And once Padme is dead, the issue of saving people is gone, cause Padme was the only person Anakin had cared for.

Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
Palpatine was lying. Simple as that.

Now, how do you know that forsure?

Palpatine never actually said that HE knew the power to stop death and create life. He said PLAGUEIS knew. Nor did he ever say that HE was Plagueis's apprentice, or if the man even ever existed.

Even if he did exist and Palpatine WAS the apprentice, then who's to trust Palpatine that Plagueis DID teach his apprentice everything he knew.

Well, Palpy WAS his apprentice. He implies it, and it is in the Chronology, now.

I think he was just Bogarting Anakin.

He knew the secret.

Screw Anakin... palps reneged on him.

Originally posted by Sith Master X
Sidious was flat out lying.

Wurd! So how come a Jedi Knight such as Anakin couldn't sense that he was being lied to? I mean in AOTC he could sense those centipedes in Padme's roomas a padawan!, yet as a Knight he couldn't detect a bold-faced lie?---> In TPM Lord Sidous could even tell the Viceroy was lying to him over a fukking holograph. WEAK!

And I know that Yoda said "The dark side clouds eeeeverything", but not sensing a blatant lie like that was just strayt pathetic. 'Naw mean?

The viceroy wasn't lying over an hologram. Sensing the presence of creatures or detecting a lie is a totally different thing

you're just trying to make Anakin look weak.

If you're saying that not detecting a lie is weak, then all the Jedi are weak, cause Sidious has been lying to them for years!

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
Wurd! So how come a Jedi Knight such as Anakin couldn't sense that he was being lied to? I mean in AOTC he could sense those centipedes in Padme's roomas a padawan!, yet as a Knight he couldn't detect a bold-faced lie?---> In TPM Lord Sidous could even tell the Viceroy was lying to him over a fukking holograph. WEAK!

And I know that Yoda said "The dark side clouds eeeeverything", but not sensing a blatant lie like that was just strayt pathetic. 'Naw mean?

It's about being weak minded.

A person who is strong with the force can influence someone who is weak-minded.

Anakin is by no means weak,(niether are the Jedi), but I think the whole point in the PT is that Sids is stronger mentally (with the force.)

So, as I said in my last post, Anakin wasn't lied to (Sids knew the trick), he just got hoed.

A mindtrick if used if the lie wouldn't work...Sid wasn't using mindtricks at all...afteral he was the chancellor...his word is the law and the Jedi are to obey.

There was no proof he was a Sith, so Jedi were powerless. And yeah someone who has been supporting you for more than ten years...well that's someone you trust and not easily suspect from lying to you

im pretty sure, when anakin is lying on his back when palpatine comes to pick him up from mustafar, he kneels down and holds his hands out to anakin, to keep him alive using the power he learnt form his old master. palpatine probably knew the power but had no intention of letting anakin in on the "secret" because he knew that all of what happeened would happen. So he let it happen, and when anakin yyells "nooo" when he wakes up, palpatine starts smiling, knowing his plan to lure anakin worked.

Originally posted by lukeskyrunner
im pretty sure, when anakin is lying on his back when palpatine comes to pick him up from mustafar, he kneels down and holds his hands out to anakin, to keep him alive using the power he learnt form his old master. palpatine probably knew the power but had no intention of letting anakin in on the "secret" because he knew that all of what happeened would happen. So he let it happen, and when anakin yyells "nooo" when he wakes up, palpatine starts smiling, knowing his plan to lure anakin worked.

Actually I learned why Palpatine touched Anakin on Mustafar...Palpatine is always seen as an evil person, who only cares about himself. Well it was to show that there is some humanity in him. He touched Anakin (actually Darth Vader) because he cared for him. He lost his pupil (cause Anakin was stronger than Darth Vader, Vader became weaker after his fight with Obi-Wan) but both were still friends. Both were friends for a long time, but when they decided to betray each other at the same time, that died.

oooh ok

Originally posted by Cascador
Actually I learned why Palpatine touched Anakin on Mustafar...Palpatine is always seen as an evil person, who only cares about himself. Well it was to show that there is some humanity in him. He touched Anakin (actually Darth Vader) because he cared for him. He lost his pupil (cause Anakin was stronger than Darth Vader, Vader became weaker after his fight with Obi-Wan) but both were still friends. Both were friends for a long time, but when they decided to betray each other at the same time, that died. This is the avatar of my opinion to Palpatine touching him. Very well said.

Originally posted by rubinator
well, palpatine never told anakin that he(palpatine) was the apprentice in the book, he stated that. not the movie.

Originally posted by General G
when Sidious tells Anakin about the tragedy of Darth Plagueis (probly spelt wrong) The Wise, he said that he taught everything including how to do save lives to his apprentice, still following me? good. now, how come when Anakin turns to the Dark Side, Sidious says that it is a power only one has achieved, and yet he was his apprentice and Plagueis taught him how. Did he actually know how? When Plaqueis taught his apprentice everything he knew about the dark side, he excluded the power to manipulate midichlorians

... uh, maybe Darth Sidious was lying.

Maybe there was such a sith as Plagueis the Wise, Sidious may have been the apprentice, but Sidious might not have known how to keep people from dying. He was telling Anakin that together they could figure it out, but all in all, Darth Sidious was probably telling Anakin whatever he needed to in order to pull him to the darkside.

But in the ROTS novelisation, Sidious says to Anakin that he was Plagueis's apprentice and that he KNEW how to save lives, and you would think that the Chosen One would be able to tell if he was flat out lying or not.

The novelization of a movie isn't canon.

Not necessarily, since Sidious was going to complete Anakin's training under the dark side's teaching. Also under that same logic, wouldn't the "chosen one" know right from wrong and not join the darkside in the first place? Restore balance to the force right then and there by taking down Sidious in his bad ass apartment suite? (Which brings up something else... here's my question to you and anyone else reading this: Do you think Anakin could've taken Sidious? Keep in mind Anakin wasn't really as strong as he would later be as Vader. If you say yes, then could Obi-Wan had beaten Sidious as well...?)

Back to the original question now, the thing that bothers me most about ALL 3 PREQUELS is that, back some 20 years at least, maybe longer, when people really started to ask, "Wait... at the beginning of Star Wars, it says Episode 4? What about the first 3 episodes...?" George Lucas made it out as if he had written the WHOLE thing and just shelved the first 3 installments and gave us the Luke trilogy, but now while the prequels have been coming out, it's clear that besides the fact that Obi-Wan and Anakin were friends before Vader and that the two of them had a big ass fight where Anakin got burned something fierce in lava, Everything else seems like he just wrote it on the spot here and there whenever he was sitting on the can during production of each of the corresponding prequels.

Lets be honest here, fans. I'm a fan, you're a fan, but I would have liked to have seen more elaboration on LOTS of the actual storyline and relationships between all of the characters, instead of watching Obi-Wan ride some crazy yelping space creature, whisling and having it come to him and bullshit kiddy action with Jar-Jar Binks in Episode 1, or "yippie!!" little Anakin blowing up some droid comand center on accident while trying to figure out how to fly his ship. Count up all of the minutes and hours scenes like those took away from the actual Anakin/Vader, Obi-Wan/Anakin, Chewbacca/Han Solo storylines.

Who the hell is, Plagueis the Wise? I don't know. I'd like to know, but now we'll never know unless someone else, not Lucas, decides to make Their interpretation of the Sith and it's history. Because apparently, Lucas is finished with it, right? I was hoping to see more Sith. A Jedi/Sith war, or Jedi/Mandalorian war. More backstory is what I'm saying. Even if those Sith/Jedi stories would have been done as backstories told by any of the Jedi Council members, being that the Sith were supposedly extinct to the Jedi's knowledge.

Plagueis the Wise was just thrown in there with nothing more than a quick mention of the name. And if I do remember correctly, General G, I don't think that Sidious actually said, "technically", that he was Plagueis' apprectice. Although, Lucas leaves you to imply that was the case (would've been very cool if the name mentioned had been, Darth Revan...). But again, even if there was a Plagueis the Wise, Sidious is a tricky bastard. He could have still been telling poor Anakin whatever Anakin needed to hear at the time. Tricks like that must definately be a darkside skill. And I guess Sidious could've been worse and dropped some roofies in Anakin's drink instead.

Lucas kind of screwed us all, I think. Episode 3 was cool though. Far better than the first two prequels, but it still left us with a ton of questions and made new ones for us too, such as Plagueis the Wise.

(something occured to me just now, after ALL these years, how do you imagine good ol' George decided to call the character Luke Skywalker/Starkiller, "Luke" in the first place? "Luke"... "Lucas"...?? Hmm... I SAID IT FIRST PEOPLE!! -smile-

If anything that is in the book wasn't in the movie, then it is not canon.