Lucifer & Michael vs FullPotential-Max Faraday, Scott Free, Dr Manhattan, Hyperstorm

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unknowable
Four of the most, if not the most powerful human beings
vs
The two most powerful angels

They have full access to their powers, all of them.

Quick overview:

Angels:

Lucifer - Possesses the Presence's will power. He uses this to shape the demiurgic matter laid down by Michael into the DC universe which later became a multiverse

Michael - Possesses the Presence's demiurgic power. The power to create. He lays down the foundations for Lucifer

Humans, all at full potential:

Max Faraday - Controls the Creation Equation - potentially able to provide a user with the power of God.

Scott Free(Mr Miracle) - Possesses the entire, functional Anti-Life Equation in his mind

Dr Manhattan - a blue-skinned superhuman who can do anything because he has a quantum consciousness that reveals time, space, and matter as they truly are--in atomic detail

Hyperstorm - his father(Franklin Richards)had the power to manipulate reality itself, and his mother (Rachel Summers) was herself the daughter of the X-Men's Cyclops & Jean Grey, Jonathan Richards has the ability to tap into hyperspace, the limitless source of all energy in this plane of reality

Even if yall know all this already, bare with me, I'm just laying out the cards...

Who wins?

unknowable
I think I did overkill,

Max Faraday alone should be able to annihilate both, since at full potential he has the power of God.

Ex11B
laughing rolling on floor laughing eek! roll eyes (sarcastic) stick out tongue

Draco69
Originally posted by unknowable
I think I did overkill,

Max Faraday alone should be able to annihilate both, since at full potential he has the power of God.

And? Michael also possesses the power of God. Add Lucifer who recently gained an equivalent power himself...

unknowable
Originally posted by Draco69
And? Michael also possesses the power of God. Add Lucifer who recently gained an equivalent power himself...

Lucifer also has God's power now?

They both have The Presense's full power or part of it?

If that's true then The Presense has no purpose anymore.

Draco69
The Presence doesn't really have a role anymore. He left the DCU. He basically said "F*ck it. I'm tired of saving all your asses. You're on your own. I'm to creating a new creation."

Lucifer is currently trying to corrupt The Presence's "daughter"

unknowable
This is tough to judge,

all of these characters have power over Time, Faraday and Hyperstorm are limitless, I know Manhattan transends in and out of time, limitlessly I'm not sure, but I know he can create life and reshape matter(scale debatable), at the end of Watchmen, Manhattan say's he's leaving this universe and going off to create his own with his own humans, so it's atleast universal. But it may be multi-versal and beyond.

The Anti-Life Equation has unimaginable destructive power, and it seems to be trapped in it's demension, but when Dr Fate, Highfather, Darkseid, Orion, & Etrigen traveled to it and joined all their power to become the Cinque of Cosmic Power, they blasted the Equation with all their might,by surprise, and this only gave it pause for literally a second the narrator said, mind you Fate, while still controlling the Cinque of Power, slipped the group away in that second, then destroyed the reality or pocket universe with a single blast that was between the Anti-life's and all others.

"We of New Genesis have the effrontary to call ourselves gods, now I know what a god trully is, next to this deity, I am nothing"... Metron on the Anti-Life Equation

unknowable
Originally posted by Draco69
The Presence doesn't really have a role anymore. He left the DCU. He basically said "F*ck it. I'm tired of saving all your asses. You're on your own. I'm to creating a new creation."

Lucifer is currently trying to corrupt The Presence's "daughter"

oh I see..

so who do ya think takes this?

ps. Is that Elaine Bulloc?

unknowable
Originally posted by unknowable
oh I see..

so who do ya think takes this?

ps. Is that Elaine Bulloc?

Belluc

Draco69
Originally posted by unknowable
oh I see..

so who do ya think takes this?

ps. Is that Elaine Bulloc?

I find it truly difficult for ANYONE defeat Lucifer and Michael considering the power they have now.

It MAY be her. The writer keeps confusing us with other possibilities. mad

unknowable
Originally posted by Draco69
I find it truly difficult for ANYONE defeat Lucifer and Michael considering the power they have now.

It MAY be her. The writer keeps confusing us with other possibilities. mad

I see what you mean but still, those really notice their opponents, there's crazy power there, including one who has their power aswell(Max Farady)

Draco69
The only people who can possible defeat Lucifer & Michael is the Presence himself or the TOAA.

cheap cabbage
Originally posted by Draco69
The only people who can possible defeat Lucifer & Michael is the Presence himself or the TOAA.

The humans can all have the power of god, but they aren't god. The brother's are acutal embodiments of god. Just like spectre is his wrath, michael and lucifer are his love and will. Therefore, the big man always wins.

Mider
when did this happen to lucifer and micheal in the lucifer comics big duh if its a yes just say duh of its a yes >; / anyway even though these other guys do have godlike powers i dont think manhatten and hyperstorm would enter into the equation cause hyperstorm is not as powerful as galactus seeing as he is captured by him and dr manhatten has limiations i think but the other godlike beings max faraday and mr miracle are they smart enough to tanel with lucifer even though they might have that kind of power he might probably steel it from them anyway.

unknowable
Originally posted by Mider
when did this happen to lucifer and micheal in the lucifer comics big duh if its a yes just say duh of its a yes >; / anyway even though these other guys do have godlike powers i dont think manhatten and hyperstorm would enter into the equation cause hyperstorm is not as powerful as galactus seeing as he is captured by him and dr manhatten has limiations i think but the other godlike beings max faraday and mr miracle are they smart enough to tanel with lucifer even though they might have that kind of power he might probably steel it from them anyway.

Didn't know Hyperstorm wasn't as powerful as Galactus, that doens't make him obselete though, in combination with the others his power would come plenty in handy, it's not like he's small time even though he may not be as powerful as Galactus.

Gotta disagree with you on Manhattan. I can't see how being able to create a universe or(possibly universes) and human life equals to limitation, besides time travel, past and future and besides being able to see quarks and neutrinos(the smallest particles) in real time, and many other abilities.

"I can see occurances so tiny and so fast you could hardly say they ever existed at all" Dr Manhattan.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Draco69

Lucifer is currently trying to corrupt The Presence's "daughter"

How so? I didnt interpret that fro reading it.

Either way both Michael and Lucifer have God derived power. None of them possess the full power of God. Lucifer has gods will and Michael gods creation power (the demiurge)

After Presence they are the most powerful beings in DC.

GalacticStorm
Lucifer and Michael were created to be Yahwehs successors. At full potential they would be the supreme beings just like Elaine has become recently in the Lucifer series. The brothers win.

unknowable
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Lucifer and Michael were created to be Yahwehs successors. At full potential they would be the supreme beings just like Elaine has become recently in the Lucifer series. The brothers win.

GS you know your thing, no doubt but, you quickly dismiss the combined force of those four god-like figures. I'm sure the brothers, one on one, would take out the humans, although in Faraday's case that's debatable since he also at full potential has the power of Yaweh, this is a fact, the Creation Equation gives it's possessor the power of god.

Mr Miracle controls the total Anti-Life Equation, he doesn't use it but he could if he wanted, this is access to that power that Darkseid himself said: "only a FRACTION of this nightmare's power will be enough to bring my reality/universe to it's knees" (Cosmic Odyssey #4)DC comics.

Manhattan can definately create a universe and life(humans too) as he announced at the end of the WATCHMEN, can he create a multi-verse? no evidence that I know of can proove that, although there's nothing to the contrary iether.

And Hyperstorm, has a family tree line that's riddled with power, not to mention his own, who at full potential has all the energy in the limitless hyperspace at his comand.

Now let's add these four together and look at the battle again.
and don't forget about Faraday who alone equals to Yahweh.

ps. Max Faraday was the most powerful being in his prior universe, DC recently aquired the license to his comic book, Divine Right. He still possesses his exact same powers.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by unknowable
GS you know your thing, no doubt but, you quickly dismiss the combined force of those four god-like figures. I'm sure the brothers, one on one, would take out the humans, although in Faraday's case that's debatable since he also at full potential has the power of Yaweh, this is a fact, the Creation Equation gives it's possessor the power of god.

Mr Miracle controls the total Anti-Life Equation, he doesn't use it but he could if he wanted, this is access to that power that Darkseid himself said: "only a FRACTION of this nightmare's power will be enough to bring my reality/universe to it's knees" (Cosmic Odyssey #4)DC comics.

Manhattan can definately create a universe and life(humans too) as he announced at the end of the WATCHMEN, can he create a multi-verse? no evidence that I know of can proove that, although there's nothing to the contrary iether.

And Hyperstorm, has a family tree line that's riddled with power, not to mention his own, who at full potential has all the energy in the limitless hyperspace at his comand.

Now let's add these four together and look at the battle again.
and don't forget about Faraday who alone equals to Yahweh.

ps. Max Faraday was the most powerful being in his prior universe, DC recently aquired the license to his comic book, Divine Right. He still possesses his exact same powers.

Is it actually stated in Divine right that Max's powers place him on an equal footing with the supreme being? Or is it just stated that he wields the power of creation?

Mordum
Max has the creation equation which is the power of creation.

supremthor
ITs never said any were that max had the power of god in divine right. the closest thing stated was he had the power of creation and he was the most powerful person in his U. having the power of creation isnt all that big when it comes to comics these days. a whol lot of characters have the power of creation like. DR.Manhatten( in the end of the wacthers he give a hint he was going to creat his own) Molecule Man ( after his weakness was taking away. and liek all the 5TH dem imps have the power of creation outside the dem.

unknowable
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Is it actually stated in Divine right that Max's powers place him on an equal footing with the supreme being? Or is it just stated that he wields the power of creation?

It is absolute that the Creation Equation is, the power of God!

But at this point he can rearrange reality upto a global scale, he created a world the size of earth for him and his friends to arrive on in a diffferent galaxy, but Max is very new to his power and sometimes he does things by mistake, like when he teleported his girlfriend 10 billion light years away from his sub-conscious cause he was angry with her. She ended up on a lifeless planet in the past, luckily for her he figured how to teleport her back.

Max is barely over his teens and he came into this power not to long ago, he hangs with a group called the Fallen, four characters that have a tiny fraction of the Creation Equation's power, their purpose is to teach Max how to use his power.

unknowable
Originally posted by supremthor
ITs never said any were that max had the power of god in divine right. the closest thing stated was he had the power of creation and he was the most powerful person in his U. having the power of creation isnt all that big when it comes to comics these days. a whol lot of characters have the power of creation like. DR.Manhatten( in the end of the wacthers he give a hint he was going to creat his own) Molecule Man ( after his weakness was taking away. and liek all the 5TH dem imps have the power of creation outside the dem.

Correction my friend, the Creation Equation give you the power of God, period.

From his bio:

Divine Right is a comic book created by Jim Lee and published by Wildstorm. The comic features Max Faraday, a comp. student who inadvertently becomes the receptacle of an incredible mystic power.
We see the story; millennia ago, in the days of the Old Testament, screaming backwards through time, a gigantic creation fell to Earth, impacting into a Middle-Eastern desert. An engine capable of unthinkable power, it was later to be called the Creation Equation, potentially able to PRVIDE a user with the POWER of GOD.

Hunted for this power he now wields, he is helped notably by The Fallen (Brande, Tobruk and Exotica; a trio of super-powered beings who have a fraction of Max's power which bonds them to him), Christy Blaze, John Lynch (Gen13's mentor) and Fairchild, the peer leader of Gen13.
The ensuing journey sees Max embrace his Divine Right, as he takes control of the situation, and ultimately the universe, as he truly tests the limits of what God can do, and how much humanity can be retained.

unknowable
Originally posted by unknowable
Correction my friend, the Creation Equation give you the power of God, period.

From his bio:

Divine Right is a comic book created by Jim Lee and published by Wildstorm. The comic features Max Faraday, a comp. student who inadvertently becomes the receptacle of an incredible mystic power.
We see the story; millennia ago, in the days of the Old Testament, screaming backwards through time, a gigantic creation fell to Earth, impacting into a Middle-Eastern desert. An engine capable of unthinkable power, it was later to be called the Creation Equation, potentially able to PRVIDE a user with the POWER of GOD.

Hunted for this power he now wields, he is helped notably by The Fallen (Brande, Tobruk and Exotica; a trio of super-powered beings who have a fraction of Max's power which bonds them to him), Christy Blaze, John Lynch (Gen13's mentor) and Fairchild, the peer leader of Gen13.
The ensuing journey sees Max embrace his Divine Right, as he takes control of the situation, and ultimately the universe, as he truly tests the limits of what God can do, and how much humanity can be retained.

unknowable
Repeated the post to make sure you understand.

PS. Max doesn't wield the power of God now, but at full control he will according to his creators.

no need to debate this, facts baby...

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by unknowable
Correction my friend, the Creation Equation give you the power of God, period.

From his bio:

Divine Right is a comic book created by Jim Lee and published by Wildstorm. The comic features Max Faraday, a comp. student who inadvertently becomes the receptacle of an incredible mystic power.
We see the story; millennia ago, in the days of the Old Testament, screaming backwards through time, a gigantic creation fell to Earth, impacting into a Middle-Eastern desert. An engine capable of unthinkable power, it was later to be called the Creation Equation, potentially able to PRVIDE a user with the POWER of GOD.

Hunted for this power he now wields, he is helped notably by The Fallen (Brande, Tobruk and Exotica; a trio of super-powered beings who have a fraction of Max's power which bonds them to him), Christy Blaze, John Lynch (Gen13's mentor) and Fairchild, the peer leader of Gen13.
The ensuing journey sees Max embrace his Divine Right, as he takes control of the situation, and ultimately the universe, as he truly tests the limits of what God can do, and how much humanity can be retained.

Well with that in mind that places him on the same level as Archangel Michael who also wields the power of God. The demiurge, the creation power of God.

With that in mind the brothers still win.

Sir Whirlysplat
No if they both have total control of creation neither can win!

unknowable
Originally posted by supremthor
ITs never said any were that max had the power of god in divine right. the closest thing stated was he had the power of creation and he was the most powerful person in his U. having the power of creation isnt all that big when it comes to comics these days. a whol lot of characters have the power of creation like. DR.Manhatten( in the end of the wacthers he give a hint he was going to creat his own) Molecule Man (after his weakness was taking away. and liek all the 5TH dem imps have the power of creation outside the dem.

By the way just found in Divine Right#4 how the ability to create reality through will power is only and I quote: "the basic foundation of the creation equation in time there will be nothing you can't do"

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
No if they both have total control of creation neither can win!

Yes possibly but its not just Michael involved its also Lucifer. Max would be on the same level as Michael so it would hardly be a stalemate.

unknowable
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Well with that in mind that places him on the same level as Archangel Michael who also wields the power of God. The demiurge, the creation power of God.

With that in mind the brothers still win.

uhhm Michael's and Lucifer's aswell, because if Michael and Lucifer together make God's total power, demiurge and will, Max at full potential has both, God's total power, not just to create but destroy or whatever else he wishes.

ps. One of Faraday's most dangerous enemies Lazarus, wants to take Max's power to kill God and remake reality across ALL space.
Does he mean the multi-verse I don't know.
Does he mean God/Yahweh/Presense, well he must cuz DC owns Divine Right now.

Your wondering how can he possibly take his power, Max is basically a kid and ignorant about his full capacity.
They had to make him this way, otherwise there's a new God in town, and his name is Max Faraday.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by unknowable
uhhm Michael's and Lucifer's aswell, because if Michael and Lucifer together make God's total power, demiurge and will, Max at full potential has both, God's total power, not just to create but destroy or whatever else he wishes.

ps. One of Faraday's most dangerous enemies Lazarus, wants to take Max's power to kill God and remake reality across ALL space.
Does he mean the multi-verse I don't know.
Does he mean God/Yahweh/Presense, well he must cuz DC owns Divine Right now.

Your wondering how can he possibly take his power, Max is basically a kid and ignorant about his full capacity.
They had to make him this way, otherwise there's a new God in town, and his name is Max Faraday.

It was said in divine right that Max has gods creation power not his total power so you must be careful not to make that assumption. If it says he has gods total power then can you point me to the issue as ive just downloaded all 12 issues.

DC may now own Divine Rights but at the time it wasnt written they didnt so you cant say Lazarus was talking about Yahweh.

unknowable
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It was said in divine right that Max has gods creation power not his total power so you must be careful not to make that assumption. If it says he has gods total power then can you point me to the issue as ive just downloaded all 12 issues.

DC may now own Divine Rights but at the time it wasnt written they didnt so you cant say Lazarus was talking about Yahweh.

Good point, he might have been talking about the Image universe God,
as for God's total power, it doesn't use the word :total", it just say's the power of God, but it doesn't say just creation iether.

In any case I didn't memorize the exact issue but it's there and if you have all twelve issues you will bump into it, for the time being here's a link to his bio which also mentions it "it provides a user with the Power of God"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Right
copy & paste..

unknowable
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It was said in divine right that Max has gods creation power not his total power so you must be careful not to make that assumption. If it says he has gods total power then can you point me to the issue as ive just downloaded all 12 issues.

DC may now own Divine Rights but at the time it wasnt written they didnt so you cant say Lazarus was talking about Yahweh.

You no joke how quickly you get them issues...

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by unknowable
Good point, he might have been talking about the Image universe God,
as for God's total power, it doesn't use the word :total", it just say's the power of God, but it doesn't say just creation iether.

In any case I didn't memorize the exact issue but it's there and if you have all twelve issues you will bump into it, for the time being here's a link to his bio which also mentions it "it provides a user with the Power of God"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Right
copy & paste..

Im gonna have to get back to you on what exactlys said because i dont wanna skim read though the issues just for this debate because the series actually looks quite good so i dont wanna spoil it for myself.

However just saying Max wields gods power doesnt place him on an equal footing with the supreme being. Its not specific enough, so its far from conclusive. Both Lucifer and Michael wield Gods power for example.

Wikipedias entries are often written by the public and its entries can be edited at any time so while its useful its not always sufficient evidence in debates.

I'll get back to you anyway. Either way i cant see HyperStorm or Dr Man playing much of a part. There are more powerful beings you couldve chosen from. Hyperstorms powers being derived from creation for example and Dr Man only being able to manipulate creation as opposed to his power being totally independent from it.

Draco69
People, you simply don't understand the Brothers. The others created a universe? That's nice. The Brothers created everything that is. Creation itself. Everything that can possibly be, cannot be and will be. A multiverse is not Creation. A multiverse is the Internet. Creation is the Internet, the computer, the mouse, the keyboard, the modem processor and everything outside the computer.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Draco69
People, you simply don't understand the Brothers. The others created a universe? That's nice. The Brothers created everything that is. Creation itself. Everything that can possibly be, cannot be and will be. A multiverse is not Creation. A multiverse is the Internet. Creation is the Internet, the computer, the mouse, the keyboard, the modem processor and everything outside the computer.

I think the brothers will win as well but to be fair the brothers created a universe and Kronas machinations were responsible for the multiverse.

Draco69
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I think the brothers will win as well but to be fair the brothers created a universe and Kronas machinations were responsible for the multiverse.

The Vertigo comics say otherwise. Which is why I and several others just tend to ignore Krona's role.

DC Universe history and Vertigo history clash in alot ways though...

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Draco69
The Vertigo comics say otherwise. Which is why I and several others just tend to ignore Krona's role.

DC Universe history and Vertigo history clash in alot ways though...

What Vertigo comics? Lucifer certainly doesnt. I have all 69 issues and id love for you to point out an instance from an issue.

In Lucifer its stated that the Presences creation is a universe and its also stated that they helped in making it under Gods direction.

Sir Whirlysplat
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What Vertigo comics? Lucifer certainly doesnt. I have all 69 issues and id love for you to point out an instance from an issue.

In Lucifer its stated that the Presences creation is a universe and its also stated that they helped in making it under Gods direction.

This is actually true confused No GS bullshit here Draco! weird stuff, huh!

Draco69
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What Vertigo comics? Lucifer certainly doesnt. I have all 69 issues and id love for you to point out an instance from an issue.

In Lucifer its stated that the Presences creation is a universe and its also stated that they helped in making it under Gods direction.

For what I understand Michael and Lucifer didn't merely create a universe they created Creation itself...or am I wrong...

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Draco69
For what I understand Michael and Lucifer didn't merely create a universe they created Creation itself...or am I wrong...

What do you think creation is? I think your perception of what they mean when they say creation is whats causing the confusion. In the Lucifer title the Presences creation is a universe as stated on panel. Thats what Lucifer and Michael had a hand in creating. That in itself was just a learning exercise for them devised by God as a means of teaching them the skills they'd need to fulfill their future roles as Gods successors. Well that was the original plan but as we've seen Elaine is now the supreme being in Vertigo.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
This is actually true confused No GS bullshit here Draco! weird stuff, huh!

wink

Mider
even if they are below faraday he isnt smart enough to handle his powers Lucifer would outsmart him and take the power for himself thats if he needs it.

unknowable
Originally posted by Mider
even if they are below faraday he isnt smart enough to handle his powers Lucifer would outsmart him and take the power for himself thats if he needs it.

This is true, only thing is, this particular thread has a full potential Max Faraday so, he would know how to use his power, fully..

unknowable
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What do you think creation is? I think your perception of what they mean when they say creation is whats causing the confusion. In the Lucifer title the Presences creation is a universe as stated on panel. Thats what Lucifer and Michael had a hand in creating. That in itself was just a learning exercise for them devised by God as a means of teaching them the skills they'd need to fulfill their future roles as Gods successors. Well that was the original plan but as we've seen Elaine is now the supreme being in Vertigo.

always making a nikka smarter...

By the way I was wondering GS, will the brothers rule together?
Is there a full potential for the brothers, or are they who they will always be?
And if this is true, is it because the only way for the brothers to match the Presense is to work together, or will they both equal the Presense one day?

unknowable
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im gonna have to get back to you on what exactlys said because i dont wanna skim read though the issues just for this debate because the series actually looks quite good so i dont wanna spoil it for myself.

However just saying Max wields gods power doesnt place him on an equal footing with the supreme being. Its not specific enough, so its far from conclusive. Both Lucifer and Michael wield Gods power for example.

Wikipedias entries are often written by the public and its entries can be edited at any time so while its useful its not always sufficient evidence in debates.

I'll get back to you anyway. Either way i cant see HyperStorm or Dr Man playing much of a part. There are more powerful beings you couldve chosen from. Hyperstorms powers being derived from creation for example and Dr Man only being able to manipulate creation as opposed to his power being totally independent from it.

Perhaps, but every google link I followed on Faraday say's the same thing,
it's probably a conspiracy lol...

unknowable
Originally posted by GalacticStorm


I'll get back to you anyway. Either way i cant see HyperStorm or Dr Man playing much of a part. There are more powerful beings you couldve chosen from. Hyperstorms powers being derived from creation for example and Dr Man only being able to manipulate creation as opposed to his power being totally independent from it.

Manhattan can do muuuuuuuuuch more than just manipulate creation, GS, you must of known this.

Mider
he may know how to use his powers but his mind is still human maybe Lucifer could make him doubt himself like the beyonder did doom.

unknowable
Originally posted by Mider
he may know how to use his powers but his mind is still human maybe Lucifer could make him doubt himself like the beyonder did doom.

Good point Mids,

But at full potential Max would also have Cosmic Awareness(also fact)unlike Doom who just had the Beyonder's power.

I'm sure you understand what that is Mids(Cosmic Awareness)the name speaks for itself.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by unknowable
always making a nikka smarter...

By the way I was wondering GS, will the brothers rule together?
Is there a full potential for the brothers, or are they who they will always be?
And if this is true, is it because the only way for the brothers to match the Presense is to work together, or will they both equal the Presense one day?

The brothers will reach full potential by taking on the mantle of supreme being. Its their destiny or at least it was prior to Elaine. (Michaels daughter) Only one of them was going to become the supreme being and helping God make creation was just a lesson for them, preparation for that role. In Lucifer 39 we found out that God had initially chosen Lucifer for the role.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by unknowable
Manhattan can do muuuuuuuuuch more than just manipulate creation, GS, you must of known this.

Not by my understanding of Watchmen. I think youre misinterpreting what i mean when i say that. From what was shown Manhattans powers arent independent from the already established creation. To create he must make use of the energy and matter whats already present. He cant create out of nothing. To manipulate his only choice is to manipulate whats already there. Michael for example wields the demiurge from which all the matter and energy in creation is derived from. Same with Phoenix all matter energy, all life is derived from Phoenix in Marvel. That makes them beyond someone like Manhattan imo and is why ive been focusing on the brothers and Faraday.

unknowable
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The brothers will reach full potential by taking on the mantle of supreme being. Its their destiny or at least it was prior to Elaine. (Michaels daughter) Only one of them was going to become the supreme being and helping God make creation was just a lesson for them, preparation for that role. In Lucifer 39 we found out that God had initially chosen Lucifer for the role.

I see...

unknowable
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not by my understanding of Watchmen. I think youre misinterpreting what i mean when i say that. From what was shown Manhattans powers arent independent from the already established creation. To create he must make use of the energy and matter whats already present. He cant create out of nothing. To manipulate his only choice is to manipulate whats already there. Michael for example wields the demiurge from which all the matter and energy in creation is derived from. Same with Phoenix all matter energy, all life is derived from Phoenix in Marvel. That makes them beyond someone like Manhattan imo and is why ive been focusing on the brothers and Faraday.

Watchmen page 27 top panel right side, I quote "I'm leaving this galaxy for one less complicated" Manhattan.
"But you'd regained interest in human life" Adrian Veidt.

page 27 middle panel left side, "Yes I have. I think perhaps I'll create some. Goodbye Adrian"

You like proof GS, there it is.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by unknowable
Watchmen page 27 top panel right side, I quote "I'm leaving this galaxy for one less complicated" Manhattan.
"But you'd regained interest in human life" Adrian Veidt.

page 27 middle panel left side, "Yes I have. I think perhaps I'll create some. Goodbye Adrian"

You like proof GS, there it is.

So how is that proof? I have it right in front of me. He says he going to go off to create something. Wheres the evidence to say hes going to generate his own matter and energy out of scratch as opposed to manipulating matter and energy already existing in creation to make whatever hes planning in that scene. Theres no proof there and no evidence in the entire series to say he can actually do that.

Hes using whats already in creation, his powers arent independent from creation. With Michael and Phoenix all matter and energy in creation derive from them. Theyre on another level.

unknowable
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
That makes them beyond someone like Manhattan imo and is why ive been focusing on the brothers and Faraday.

And what of Scott Free(Mr Miracle), you havent even mentioned him, surely he must be taken seriously having the full scope of the Anti-Life Equation at his disposal, or maybe not, explain.

unknowable
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So how is that proof? I have it right in front of me. He says he going to go off to create something. Wheres the evidence to say hes going to generate his own matter and energy out of scratch as opposed to manipulating matter and energy already existing in creation to make whatever hes planning in that scene. Theres no proof there and no evidence in the entire series to say he can actually do that.

Hes using whats already in creation, his powers arent independent from creation. With Michael and Phoenix all matter and energy in creation derive from them. Theyre on another level.

Wheres the evidence to say he's not going to generate his own matter and energy out of scratch to create?

I'd say your 50% right cuz I'm not sure, but you make sense, on the other hand it's not in plain text either or, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by unknowable
And what of Scott Free(Mr Miracle), you havent even mentioned him, surely he must be taken seriously having the full scope of the Anti-Life Equation at his disposal, or maybe not, explain.

Heres a link to a site with some info on the Anti Life equation:

http://www.dcuguide.com/who.php?name=antilifeequation

I cant see how this places him on the same level as beings from whom creation stems from.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by unknowable
Wheres the evidence to say he's not going to generate his own matter and energy out of scratch to create?

I'd say your 50% right cuz I'm not sure, but you make sense, on the other hand it's not in plain text either or, so we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

But as the one making claims its up to you to present conclusive on panel evidence verifying your claims. Thats what must be done initially. You havent been able to do that, so until such times where thats no longer the case the point is for the time being out the window.

Nowhere in Watchmen is it shown or claimed that Dr Ms powers are independent from creation. Its actually shown on panel that he has power over the elements which make up creation and thats all. These other ideas of yours are unsupported.

unknowable
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Heres a link to a site with some info on the Anti Life equation:

http://www.dcuguide.com/who.php?name=antilifeequation

I cant see how this places him on the same level as beings from whom creation stems from.

Yea I read that before during research and I hate it, cuz it's not the Anti-Life I know of.

GS have you ever read Cosmic Odyssey - written by Jim Starlin - penciled by Mike Mignola?

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by unknowable
Yea I read that before during research and I hate it, cuz it's not the Anti-Life I know of.

GS have you ever read Cosmic Odyssey - written by Jim Starlin - penciled by Mike Mignola?

I havent. Whats it about?

unknowable
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
But as the one making claims its up to you to present conclusive on panel evidence verifying your claims. Thats what must be done initially. You havent been able to do that, so until such times where thats no longer the case the point is for the time being out the window.

Nowhere in Watchmen is it shown or claimed that Dr Ms powers are independent from creation. Its actually shown on panel that he has power over the elements which make up creation and thats all. These other ideas of yours are unsupported.

agreed...

I understood it, the way I read it. Never thought to think of rearranging what's already created and creating from nothing. I see the wisdom, there is a difference.

unknowable
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I havent. Whats it about?

The true Anti-Life Equation

please download this 4 comic book series, incredible story

Highfather and Darkseid make a temporary truce, to gather heroes to save existence, Superman, Orion, Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern(jon Stewart)
Starfire(Teen Titans), Lightray(New god), Batman and Forager(bug society)

and the rest I won't spoil.

One of my favorite reads...

unknowable
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I havent. Whats it about?

Here you will see the true power of the Anti-Life Equation in it's sentient form.

GalacticStorm
Originally posted by unknowable
Here you will see the true power of the Anti-Life Equation in it's sentient form.

So what is the true power of the anti life equation. Whats actually stated word for word about its capabilities on panel in this book?

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