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Morgoth before he gave his power away to his creations vs. Ganon in a Link to the Past

Who's Melkor?

Read the Silmarillion. During the First and Second Age of Middle-Earth he was Sauron's master. Morgoth's war destroyed huge parts of northern Middle-Earth.

Ganon is very powerfull, even if Melkor is an extremly good fighter I doubt he could wound Ganon since he is pretty much invincible to attacks.

Good thread though.

It took the Valar (Gods of Middle-Earth) to bring down Morgoth and Morgoth is a Valar

Morgoth did not go out in single combat against them, he used his servents to attack them, it was a full scaled war.

He could never walk on his foot again when Fingolfin cut him on his foot, and was wounded by about 7 normal sword attacks, guess what Ganon could do. He actually (for a long time) resisted the greatest weapon made to destroy evil ever.

Originally posted by Shadow x 20
Morgoth before he gave his power away to his creations vs. Ganon in a Link to the Past

That was after he gave his power away to his creations. This is before

Have you heard the prohecy of the Final Battle?

I belive you quoted the wrong post didn't you?

Still, I have never heard of him fighting all the Valar and being a match to them all at the same time, I just knew that he was chained and captured, not much of a match there. (Mabey I'm wrong).

Same thing as with Sauron here, Morgoth can't simply kill Ganon as far as I know off.

Morgoth hasen't got anything to wound Ganondorf. Morgoth is the complete opposit of light, which means he is the complete opposit of what can kill Ganondorf.

An elven sword cut through his armor, he could never walk with that leg again after that.

When Ganondorf was knocked out by Link, he still had the power to crush the whole tower, then transform to Ganon, and after that they could only banish him, not kill him. They trapped him when he was weakend, making him unable to destroy the world, they never completed to kill him although they had the one thing said to be able to kill him.

By Ganondorfs sheer will, he was able to lock Zelda inside a crystal, even with her triforce power and magics she could not get out.

Cough*FinalBattle*Cough

And guess what? I guess you don't know but the elves are great when it comes to forging weapons for they created Sting and elves are the greatest when it comes to forging weapons for their swords are light and powerful and who's to say that the sword didn't have magic like Sting. Not to mention you keep saying Ganon can't be killed expect by the Master Sword or Light/Silver Arrows but Morgoth can still be the living hell out of him until he can't walk.

Originally posted by Shadow x 20
but Morgoth can still be the living hell out of him until he can't walk.
you meant to say "but Morgoth can still beat the yarara...", right?
Tsk tsk tsk, how is Morgoth gonna do that with weapons opposite to the master sword & light arrows?

Originally posted by Monthor
Cough*FinalBattle*Cough

And guess what? I guess you don't know but the elves are great when it comes to forging weapons for they created Sting and elves are the greatest when it comes to forging weapons for their swords are light and powerful and who's to say that the sword didn't have magic like Sting. Not to mention you keep saying Ganon can't be killed expect by the Master Sword or Light/Silver Arrows but Morgoth can still be the living hell out of him until he can't walk.

The master sword is a one of a kind. It was made by the gods, it is the ultimate weapon against evil, that is totally true. That the elves could make one exactly like that is an assumption from you.

How could Morgoth beat the hell out of Ganondorf, attacks doesent hurt him at all. Valoos fire didn't hurt him a scrath, a sword to the head didn't hurt him a scratch.

Could you give me the page in Silmarillion where he fought the gods, all at once and made a battle of it (not loosing instantly). Even though his power might be stronger than Ganon's he still can't beat him.

Also, Ganondorf could create creatures too, like Phantom Ganon and puppet Ganon. They too can only be destroyed by lightarrows and the master sword.

I guess you never played the Four Swords Adventures. The Four Swords were hurting Ganon and he was even gasping for air. Also Phantom Ganon was destroyed by the Four Swords.
Melkor fought with the other Valar for a long time for the control of Arda. While he was the single most powerful Vala, he was not able to stand up to the might of all other Valar combined.

Originally posted by Monthor
I guess you never played the Four Swords Adventures. The Four Swords were hurting Ganon and he was even gasping for air. Also Phantom Ganon was destroyed by the Four Swords.
Melkor fought with the other Valar for a long time for the control of Arda. While he was the single most powerful Vala, he was not able to stand up to the might of all other Valar combined.

The four swords needed to be combined to destroy him, they were special swords they too, they too did only banish Ganondorf from Hyrule, they never killed him. It required four Link's to defeat him there.

As I said I have a theory that Ganon/Ganondorf grows weaker since every game, you keep posting new facts where Link is able to defeat Ganondorf but avoid the ones saying that Link is the only one that actually can defeat him. He has the perfect weapons against Ganondorf, still, he is only able to wound him and fautige him so the sages can capture him, if he could kill him at those moments he would.

Light defeats Ganondorf, Morgoth is darkness. Ganondorf is also immune to normal attacks.

Is it just me or do you feel like these debats are never gonna end?

No my point was that the Four Swords injured Ganon. So why wouldn't a battle hammer made from a Vala be able to hurt Ganon.

because its not made from light.

Neither was the Megaton Hammer or the Boron's Sword but it still injured Ganon

They weren't made to kill darkness so, no. The four swords arent just any swords, combined they are much more.

6 trolls was able to carry and attack with that hammer, and they didn't break the gate until after many hits. Valoo (the dragon in WW) blew his incredibly strong fire breath so Ganons whole tower fell, still, Ganondorf wasent wounded a bit.

And it's not only because of Ganons invincibility he is good, he is incredibly strong. When he was knocked out his rage made him destroy a whole tower, he could combine all of his lightning bolts into an incredibly strong attack. He could fight as Ganon, an almost unstoppable beast with two giant swords, one elven sword in the foot was enough to cripple Morgoth.

If you don't wound Ganondorf with light arrows before you attack, he is invincible.

Could Morgoth fly?? (Proof).

So let's get this straight. The only reason Ganon would win was because he is invincible and yet Morgoth (before he gave his power to his creations) wouldn't be able to do anything to harm Ganon?

nope Morgoth is darkness and i doubt he has a weapon made from the light

alright then, Ganon can be killed by anything now. Who wins?

So now your taking away one of Ganon's abilites. I think you're just desperate to prove Morgoth the winner. You did the exact same thing with Halo. To prove that Master Chief could be beaten you started coming out with all kinds of Halo threads just to show that Master Chief could be beaten. And now you're doing the same with Zelda.

WTF? The only thread I ever started that could prove Halo could be beaten was Shadow vs. Master Chief

Fine as darkC said in another thread replace the words Master Chief with things from the Halo universe.

Originally posted by Monthor
alright then, Ganon can be killed by anything now. Who wins?


Hmm, you really gave me something to think about here, and I will.

Originally posted by thegmeister53
Fine as darkC said in another thread replace the words Master Chief with things from the Halo universe.

Why would I try to make Halo (or Zelda) look bad when those are games I actually enjoy playing?

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
Why would I try to make Halo (or Zelda) look bad when those are games I actually enjoy playing?
yeah and besides its a tie ganondorf cant be killed by anything but weapons of the light (master sword for example) and morgoth is a god. simply put neither can be killed. anyway y the hell would they be fighting. together they could achieve both of their goals much easier.

Originally posted by John Bak'or
yeah and besides its a tie ganondorf cant be killed by anything but weapons of the light (master sword for example) and morgoth is a god. simply put neither can be killed. anyway y the hell would they be fighting. together they could achieve both of their goals much easier.
I agree on every point.

Originally posted by John Bak'or
yeah and besides its a tie ganondorf cant be killed by anything but weapons of the light (master sword for example) and morgoth is a god. simply put neither can be killed. anyway y the hell would they be fighting. together they could achieve both of their goals much easier.

Because they both want one thing. Complete control of the world and I doubt that they want to share control.

Yeah, they would end up conquering the world, each of them would then want to have all the power, they would attack each other and find out that neither can die, and then we are all back at square one.

Where exactly does it say Morgoth cannot be killed? Just because he is a god? The gods in Middle-Earth could be killed.

Didn't Sauron kill Morgoth?

No. Morgoth was sealed away by the Valar

ok a great god of darkness vs king of evil

Morgoth cannot die, first off becasue hes a god, no gods in middle earth ever died, if they could kill morgoth wouldnt you of thought they would actually kill him instead of banishing him into the void all the time, he can bring up mountains or tear them down, he is enormous, about the size of a great volcano, he has a crown of fire and his body is similiar to rock, cladded in ice. no puny King of evil will win this battle

Also though its doubtful unless Morgoth has the silmirils can he win, the silmarils are powerful gems holding light, they would destroy Ganon no doubt but then the godlike Morgoth did not have them when he was a true god

Morgoth= wins Ganon= dead meat
even if morgoth doesnt kill Ganon he can level a mountain range on top of him and bury him alive for eternity, under thousands of tonnes

Originally posted by Burning thought
ok a great god of darkness vs king of evil

Morgoth cannot die, first off becasue hes a god, no gods in middle earth ever died, if they could kill morgoth wouldnt you of thought they would actually kill him instead of banishing him into the void all the time, he can bring up mountains or tear them down, he is enormous, about the size of a great volcano, he has a crown of fire and his body is similiar to rock, cladded in ice. no puny King of evil will win this battle

Also though its doubtful unless Morgoth has the silmirils can he win, the silmarils are powerful gems holding light, they would destroy Ganon no doubt but then the godlike Morgoth did not have them when he was a true god

Morgoth= wins Ganon= dead meat
even if morgoth doesnt kill Ganon he can level a mountain range on top of him and bury him alive for eternity, under thousands of tonnes

what makes you think he'd get the chance. Oh I'm guessing Ganondorf is just GOING to let a mountain fall on him. He'll teleport out of the way. blast Morgoth from behind. Then they'd find out they can't kill each other, then they'd Kill Link and Everyone in Middle-Earth/Hyrule and call it a day

Originally posted by Tallis
what makes you think he'd get the chance. Oh I'm guessing Ganondorf is just GOING to let a mountain fall on him. He'll teleport out of the way. blast Morgoth from behind. Then they'd find out they can't kill each other, then they'd Kill Link and Everyone in Middle-Earth/Hyrule and call it a day

Cough*FourSwords*Cough

Four Swords injured the mighty Ganon in Four Swords Adventure. The White/Wooden Sword injured Ganon in the first Zelda game.

If I remember correctly, the wooden sword was the first sword you got in the begining of the game, not the white sword/master sword, dumb-dumb but I may be wrong

Would the four swords even be considered canon?

Yeah. And there is no proof that the White Sword is the Master Sword. Show me anything to back up that claim.

*calls Mr Miamoto* XD

The most logical explanation is that it is the same sword, they're both the only things that gave the Links the ability to actually put up a fight against Ganon and they're both white and blue.

And there's no proof of them not being the same sword.

More proof then the two being the same. No proof at all having the White Sword and the Master Sword being one in the same. According to all the sites the Master Sword first appeared in A Link to the Past. And that still doesn't explain why Ganon was being injured by the Megaton Hammer/Baron's Sword in OoT or how come you can defeat Ganondorf in OoT with the Baron's Sword or defeating Ganon with the Four Swords.

Hmmm *calls again* XD

But I wouldnt say that's the canon WAY to beat him, except for Four sword that may be a non-canon adventure

Originally posted by Tallis
what makes you think he'd get the chance. Oh I'm guessing Ganondorf is just GOING to let a mountain fall on him. He'll teleport out of the way. blast Morgoth from behind. Then they'd find out they can't kill each other, then they'd Kill Link and Everyone in Middle-Earth/Hyrule and call it a day

i doubt Ganon can teleport far enough to escape Morgoth, if it was so easy he could teleport anywhere he likes in the Link games before link could defeat him, anyway Morgoth can send mountains, drown him with sea's, burn him with fire. Also where is the battle, if it is in Arda then Morgoth can simply sing him out of excistance but if not he could just do all those other things. either way neither wins, case closed

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
More proof then the two being the same. No proof at all having the White Sword and the Master Sword being one in the same. According to all the sites the Master Sword first appeared in A Link to the Past. And that still doesn't explain why Ganon was being injured by the Megaton Hammer/Baron's Sword in OoT or how come you can defeat Ganondorf in OoT with the Baron's Sword or defeating Ganon with the Four Swords.

That was because it is the players choice, and it would be impossible if it wasn't that way. Try hitting him with megaton hammer in the end when you are supposed to finish him off....


And Ganondorf himself says that he let's this little kid "Link" run around crashing all of his temples, just so Zelda would revile herself, so he would not need to teleport to him. And Ganon also is very overconfident against Link, he thinks he is a mere child...

Originally posted by kamikz
That was because it is the players choice, and it would be impossible if it wasn't that way. Try hitting him with megaton hammer in the end when you are supposed to finish him off....


And Ganondorf himself says that he let's this little kid "Link" run around crashing all of his temples, just so Zelda would revile herself, so he would not need to teleport to him. And Ganon also is very overconfident against Link, he thinks he is a mere child...

he was referring to when Link (like in a Link to the Past) when Ganon is clearly near death and he doesn't teleport away. And again Four Swords.

Probably cause he can still fight and tries to, he wants the triforce more than anything... Also, people don't always think about such things in a battle. He was clearly able to do it, just because he didn't on a couple of occasions does not mean he can't.

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
Morgoth before he gave his power away to his creations vs. Ganon in a Link to the Past

Why exactly are you giving Morgoth all his powers, but limiting Ganon to Link to the Past? If Morgoth is as powerful as you say he is, surely you would want to make this match a little more even and allow Ganondorf/Ganon from all the games?

Because Ganon in a Link to the Past was able to turn the Sacred Realm to the Dark World. Which clearly means Ganon was strongest in a Link to the Past if he could turn the Sacred Realm which is the realm that is suppose to stop evil into darkness.

So you're saying Ganon is stupid in battle? Wait so does that mean Ganon can't defeat Bongo Bongo? Because the only way to defeat him was with arrows. So I guess Bongo Bongo is invincble as well expect against arrows.

Bongo Bongo was an ally

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
I'm sorry do I see a fanboy? If Ganondorf can't be hurt by anything expect light weapons then why come the Megaton Hammer placed the great Ganon onto the ground. Ganon is powerful and I'll admit that but saying he's immune to everything but the Master Sword and Light Arrow is stupid. What's so special about the Master Sword? No games tells you how the Master Sword was forged.

read the official home page. it says about the master sword that it's make by the best material in the entire hyrule, of all that's good and blessed by the gods.

Ganondorf doesn't get hit by the megaton hammer. It's just game play and non canon.

And if it was so easy killing him without light then why didn't link gather an army if archers to shoot him down. because arrows doesn't bite.


and if you want a new answer to the topic. I'd say morgoth wins. because of the silmarills, just as burning thought said. still moroth is maybe a little too dark to use them.

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
Because Ganon in a Link to the Past was able to turn the Sacred Realm to the Dark World. Which clearly means Ganon was strongest in a Link to the Past if he could turn the Sacred Realm which is the realm that is suppose to stop evil into darkness.

So you're saying Ganon is stupid in battle? Wait so does that mean Ganon can't defeat Bongo Bongo? Because the only way to defeat him was with arrows. So I guess Bongo Bongo is invincble as well expect against arrows.

Ganon is the strongest because he broke out? He did that in WW as well, and he just grew weaker and weaker, not practise in hundreds and hundreds of years, no new knowledge or anything. We could say that the sacred realm grew weaker and weaker...

WTF!! No one ever mentions anything about Bongo Bongo being invinsible to anything but arrows, you just don't reach him in gameplay. You seem to take gameplay before anything else, would you think that Tidus in FFX would take thousands of hits in the face with a gun because he has 20k health and the shot only takes 1? Ganondorf has been seen canonically to be immune to normal damage, it has been told by the people that knows more info about him than anyone else that he is unstoppable without the master sword. Why else would they send Link and Link only to gather up to the triforce of courage, get through temples to test his strenght and goodness, and power up the master sword to defeat Ganon....

Has anyone ever thought that Ganon can only be injured by certain weapons is to make the game challenging? I doubt a little cape could actually prevent Morgoth from attacking Ganon. Oh and play Four Swords Adventures because that game tells you about Ganondorf's transformation into Ganon.

To make it challenging, how? In gameplay you can use whatever, in the scenes and such the only thing that can defeat him is the master sword....

And yet Link was able to wound Ganon with any weapon. Have you ever thought that's all that is needed? To bring Ganon down to his knees asking for mercy? A giant hammer crushing Ganon (may or may not) kill him but it sure will injure him. Being Immortal and Invincible are different things.

No....

Play WW again, ok I'll tell you the deal.

Link enters the room and sees Ganondorf. After he talks a little Link runs forward with the master sword and strikes him from head to toe, NOT A SCRATCH. Ganondorf laughs and prepares to kill him. Then a Rito comes in through the window and grabbs Link and gets him out of there. Suddenly, Valo the dragon appears outside and takes a deep breath and fill the whole place with a wave of fire and the roof falls apart on Ganon, again NOT A SCRATCH.
Quit the bullshit.... Gameplay is not canon.

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
Morgoth before he gave his power away to his creations vs. Ganon in a Link to the Past

So what's the deal with WW? This is Ganon not Ganondorf. If you played Four Swords Adventures you'll discover that Ganondorf's weak willed was overtaken and was forever changed to Ganon.

Ok so he beats Ganon in a Link to the past, but not Ganondorf in WW-OOT. Ok?

(Didn't see it said Link to the past)

No, no, no. He beats Ganon in OoT. Ganondorf seems to be able to withstand the magical powers. AND that's what I've been trying to say. For some reason people keep bringing up Ganondorf. Ganondorf and Ganon are the same but different like Link and Oni-Link.

I just gotta ask how you know that a link to the past ganon is stronger. Really you got no prof, and you cant say that. I dont want you to put dirty post in our clean forum...

Well he cant beat ganondorf, because he needs the master sword.

The Link to the Past Ganon had the entire Triforce unlike any other Ganon. All his wishes were coming true. He turned the Sacred Realm into the Dark World and if I call correctly, the Sacred Realm was called the final defense (or something) against evil in OoT.

Allright, so if his more powerfull as you say in a link to the past, he would be "invisible". Because in OOT only the master sword can kill him.

Your saying that the white sword is not the same blade, but if it isnt... why can it destroy ganondorf?

Check again. Ganon not Ganondorf.

Um then he could wish Link away...

And no, they needed the master sword and still failed. Comon, they got the only means to kill him and it wasn't enough, how the hell is someone that is trying to fight darkness with darkness going to win?

Why else was Link going to use in a Link to the Past? Beside the Master Sword and Silver Arrows Link has no weapons that could actually do damage to anything.

Oh and the Triforce grants one's deepest wish not any wish

isnt ganon and ganondorf the same person in different shapes. You know he comes in and comes out from the sacred realm all the time. And if he is more powerfull, than HE WOULD BE INVISIBLE!

No. Four Swords Adventures explains that Ganondorf ceased to be and was forever corrupted by the demon called Ganon.

Yeah and you said that the new "ganon" is more powerfull. Than he would be stronger, means he got invisible.

AND! ganondorf can transform to ganon, and as ganon he is invisble to. Get the fact kid...

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
Why else was Link going to use in a Link to the Past? Beside the Master Sword and Silver Arrows Link has no weapons that could actually do damage to anything.

Oh and the Triforce grants one's deepest wish not any wish

There, you just owned yourself. One wish, well then he was not more powerful. The only reason you had was "he had the whole triforce"....

Yeah, he and his wish was... you know, it didnt made him more powerfull

First off when Ganondorf first transformed in Ganon (OoT) he had to use the Triforce of Power and because of that he unleashed a terrible beast within him that slowly took control of Ganondorf's body. And what was Ganon's wish in ALTP? No one knows. But it may have been for Ganon to be the complete and utter ruler of the world but the Sages sealed up the Sacred Realm.

His wish was pretty obvious since he told us that in WW. Now this is the new Hyrule so he probably wanted to rule that. Anyway, this does not grant him more power....

The Triforce of Power gave Ganondorf more power. I fail to see why the entire Triforce wouldn't give Ganon more power.

IT JUST ****ING GAVE HIM ONE WISH!, THAT TELLS THAT HE DIDNT EARN MORE STRENGHT OR ANYTHING + IF HE IS BETTER IN A LINK TO THE PAST, WHY THE HELL WOULD HE NOT BE INVISIBLE. I MEAN WHY CAN YOU SAY THAT A LINK TO THE PAST IS BETTER, BUT CANT BEAT MORGOTH, WHILE OOC CAN. IF HE IS BETTER?

WTF! AND YOU NEVER PLAYED WIND WAKER SO WHY THE **** ARE YOU COMING AND POSTING SHITS ABOUT THINGS YOU DONT KNOW.

JUST ANSWER ON THIS QUESTION:

If ganon is more powerfull than ganondorf.... why wouldnt he use invisible, because if he dont he isnt more powerfull.

+ You just pwnd yourself when you said it just gave him one wish

Seems like your fighting a losing battle, ESB.

What the hell is ganan gonna do to morgoth?

Probably as much as Morgoth can do against Ganon. Please, no more Ganon threads, I hate this "invincible guy vs invincible/non-invincible guy" threads.... (Invincible guy to both in this case)

It seems you don't realize that Ganondorf and Ganon are NOT the same person. Ganondorf may have been able to be uneffected by these things but Ganon ISN'T Ganondorf. That would be like saying Link and Oni-Link are the same person. They are, but they aren't.

AND! ganondorf can transform to ganon, and as ganon he is invisble to. Get the fact kid...

1.) You are the last person who can call me a kid
2.) Ganon is NOT Ganondorf. Ganon is the spirit that took control of Ganondorf and because of that the evil king ceased to be.

Oh and by the way the Sages from OoT all said that because Ganondorf was able to get the Triforce of Power he was capable of turning Hyrule into the shadowy land it became. Question: If Ganondorf was capable of conquering Hyrule without the Triforce or any parts why does he spend so much time looking for it.

WTF! AND YOU NEVER PLAYED WIND WAKER SO WHY THE **** ARE YOU COMING AND POSTING SHITS ABOUT THINGS YOU DONT KNOW.

I have played Wind Waker. Ganondorf's wish was to conquer Hyrule. Since a Link to the Past is a new Hyrule I fail to see why Ganon would have made a different wish then his other self.

Also Four Swords Adventures have Link defeat Ganon without the Master Sword or Light/Silver Arrows. They used the Four Swords which isn't the Sword of Evil Bane.

So I guess the Master Sword and Light/Silver Arrows aren't the only thing that can hurt Ganon.

IT JUST ****ING GAVE HIM ONE WISH!, THAT TELLS THAT HE DIDNT EARN MORE STRENGHT OR ANYTHING + IF HE IS BETTER IN A LINK TO THE PAST, WHY THE HELL WOULD HE NOT BE INVISIBLE. I MEAN WHY CAN YOU SAY THAT A LINK TO THE PAST IS BETTER, BUT CANT BEAT MORGOTH, WHILE OOC CAN. IF HE IS BETTER?

Ganon became weaker due to his many defeats and being sealed. His greatest strength was seen during OoT.

And again the Sages said that Ganondorf USED the Triforce of Power to conquer Hyrule.

pwned

Originally posted by ESB -1138
That would be like saying Link and Oni-Link are the same person. They are, but they aren't.


Bad comparison, Ganondorf doesn't have to put on a mask and all that shit. Ganon is indeed Ganondorf, he transforms his body into him. Every 100 year a male Gerudo is born, he is the leader and often has special powers, Ganondorf was this male. Ganondorf used his power and transformed himself into Ganon, later, he is seen captured AS Ganondorf. In WW he is also Ganondorf. After that he looses control of his former body, and is a weaker form of Ganon...


So...if this is OOT Ganon then no one wins (but the Valar could be broken down and weakened, but no one can win). Same with WW, but the other Ganon's would probably loose. (Though it requires light to kill them as well)