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A.S. Supermn vs. Silver Surfer.

Let's get his over with.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
A.S. Supermn vs. Silver Surfer.

Let's get his over with. Typo correction.

I meant to say "let's get this over with".

I'd say SS take a bare majority. While I think that allstar Superman may end up having more powers or being a near god by the end of the run, I think SS has more experience using his powers and Superman is just now getting these new ones. This might change as All Star Superman goes on.

Well unlike regular Superman K-nite radiation will not work on A.S. Supes.

So Norrin cannot use that method to win.

But could he drain away the excess solar radioation from Superman? And it is possible that his transmutation powers might work as well. Still kind of a toss up as we really don't know what this Superman is capiable of.

We don't know shit about allstar supes so we gonna have to wait and see.

ASS ftw.

Originally posted by thesilverspider
We don't know shit about allstar supes so we gonna have to wait and see. Well he is stronger that normal. He lifted the key that weighed 500,000 tons with ease in issue #2.

His weakness to K-nite is gone.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/allstarsuperman.jpg

Originally posted by TheKahn
I'd say SS take a bare majority. While I think that allstar Superman may end up having more powers or being a near god by the end of the run, I think SS has more experience using his powers and Superman is just now getting these new ones. This might change as All Star Superman goes on. this is rediculous.....SS is so overrated it makes me sick

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Well he is stronger that normal. He lifted the key that weighed 500,000 tons with ease in issue #2.

His weakness to K-nite is gone.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/allstarsuperman.jpg

Whats with the mars attack gun that girl is using?

is she Lois?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Well he is stronger that normal. He lifted the key that weighed 500,000 tons with ease in issue #2.

His weakness to K-nite is gone.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/allstarsuperman.jpg
ASS #2 was a great issue. I'm loving all the Silver Age goofy stuff going on at the Fortress. Plus it even had a cameo from Superman One Million.

Originally posted by Jose123
Whats with the mars attack gun that girl is using?

is she Lois? Yea that was lois. She used a k-nite radiation gun on Supes by accident.

Originally posted by King KAM
this is rediculous.....SS is so overrated it makes me sick


too bad, he's overrsted by the writers too n not just the fans{btw, why isnt there a SS bio on marvel. com when even genis-vell has a bio}

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Yea that was lois. She used a k-nite radiation gun on Supes by accident.

Wouldn't that only effect supes in the first place?

accident you say.......hmm? I smell ATTEMPTED MURDER!!!!!

Yeah it wasn't an accident. She thought Supes was going to do a science experiment on her so she tried taking him out. Attempted manslaughter I say.

Originally posted by Jose123
Wouldn't that only effect supes in the first place?

accident you say.......hmm? I smell ATTEMPTED MURDER!!!!! I think K-nite radiation would hurt humans also.

Here is Supes picking up the key made out of white dwarf material. It weighed 500,000 tons. It even cracked the Fortess floor.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/allstarsuperman2.jpg

ASS is an awesome title.

ASS is great short name for a title in itself.

almost as good as FN spider-man

It's way better than Batman's title. ASB&RTBW.

A.S.S. so far is a great series. I loved the Superman 1M cameo.
IMO though it's a little too early to really judge a battle with him.
At this point, he still appears to be godlike.

ASS is awesome.

Surfer beats him 9/10 instead of 10/10 like the original. Superman still simply doesn't have 25% of the offensive power Surfer does.

You're going to need A LOT more than some strength, heat vision and icebreath to take on a true cosmic. Superman's powers are way too passive against someone this high on the totem poll.

Originally posted by long pig
ASS is awesome.

Surfer beats him 9/10 instead of 10/10 like the original. Superman still simply doesn't have 25% of the offensive power Surfer does.

You're going to need A LOT more than some strength, heat vision and icebreath to take on a true cosmic. Superman's powers are way too passive against someone this high on the totem poll.
Some one has been reading up on the surfer.........

Oh and I forgot to add


Surfer takes this.

I was thinking he beats Surfer like Thor usually does.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I was thinking he beats Surfer like Thor usually does.

The only reason Norrin beats Supes is due to the K-nite weakness. And this version of Supes does not have that problem.

He's overloaded on the Sun so I don't thik drainin him will work. Plus he would have to touch him to do that. And Norrin does not want to get that close to this version of Supes.

But I guess it is still too early to gauge his powers but thus far it's impressive.

Originally posted by long pig
ASS is awesome.

Surfer beats him 9/10 instead of 10/10 like the original. Superman still simply doesn't have 25% of the offensive power Surfer does.

You're going to need A LOT more than some strength, heat vision and icebreath to take on a true cosmic. Superman's powers are way too passive against someone this high on the totem poll. you sound like an idiot

Hmm I don't know honestly I'm gonna stay out of this because I like them both, think they are both pretty good, don't want to get called a fanboy. I like how the half million ton key cracked the floor just from being GENTLY SET DOWN. It should have fell through the floor though, all that weight spread over such a small space, unless it was thick adamantium floor or something like that.

Originally posted by superman420sexy
Hmm I don't know honestly I'm gonna stay out of this because I like them both, think they are both pretty good, don't want to get called a fanboy. I like how the half million ton key cracked the floor just from being GENTLY SET DOWN. It should have fell through the floor though, all that weight spread over such a small space, unless it was thick adamantium floor or something like that. Well that wasn't no normal floor. It was the Fortress of Solitude.

It was a super floor.

lmao at Ion, snoopdogg, and king kam. Especially ion and king kam haha those were great

I consider myself pretty cool on these forums with you guys. Do ya'll like demigawd? Cuz if so I'll accept the fact that he is a totaly biased magneto super fanboy, and jsut laugh inside at what he says

Originally posted by King KAM
you sound like an idiot

I don't think he's an idiot, but he definitely isn't funny either.

by the way, since I've been devoting a lot of my life to this silly forum, could I get the 3 of yall's real names? lol

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I don't think he's an idiot, but he definitely isn't funny either. I love the man like a brother, but in this situation hes an idiot...a loveable idiot....but and idiot all the same

yeah jsut like you tell me to stfu

Originally posted by superman420sexy
yeah jsut like you tell me to stfu I BASH! its what i do, i am Rages son for god's sake, its in my genes....

well what's your real name

Originally posted by superman420sexy
well what's your real name i feel uncomfortable

At the risk of sounding like a idiot...

Does ASS (hehe, that's WAY too easy) have any speed feats that imply he could touch Surfer? SS is disgustingly overpowered, there's really no way to counter his speed unless you get to prepare for it and make shields. And even then you have to be at least fast enough to see/hit him. And I agree with LP, their energy projection should still be pretty close. This Superman's a little closer in speed and even farther ahead in strength, but that won't do him much good, if he can't land a shot.

Vote Surfer.

lol we only seem to be on this forum about 50 percent of our lives early morning and late at night i dont see whats wrong with telling people each others names

My real name is KAM, hence....King KAM

yeah well guess what guys im the real dea.l Im superman, i smoke pot, AND im sexy

Originally posted by Dizzle
At the risk of sounding like a idiot...

Does ASS (hehe, that's WAY too easy) have any speed feats that imply he could touch Surfer? SS is disgustingly overpowered, there's really no way to counter his speed unless you get to prepare for it and make shields. And even then you have to be at least fast enough to see/hit him. And I agree with LP, their energy projection should still be pretty close. This Superman's a little closer in speed and even farther ahead in strength, but that won't do him much good, if he can't land a shot.

Vote Surfer.

Thanos has done it with ease, and he's nowhere near light speed.

well can these guys process what they see while moviing at light speed, and have the reaction timing to act upon it?

Thor does have some serious Asgardian magic in his hammer so that may explain why he would do better against SS. ASS is kind of like the Sentry right now, they both seem badass but we just don't know that much about their abilities. He could become way more powerful than SS but right now I think SS would win.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Thanos has done it with ease, and he's nowhere near light speed.

Gorilla Grod has grabbed Flash... Your point?

can they process the thoughts and sights and have reaction timing to match their ftl speeds? Or is it just to get from point a to point b and their actually fighting speed is slower?

Originally posted by Dizzle
Gorilla Grod has grabbed Flash... Your point?

Simple one. He hasn't been shown to fight at that speed. Just travel.
Don't get your panties in a bunch.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Gorilla Grod has grabbed Flash... Your point?

That's a damn fast gorilla!

Originally posted by Dizzle
Gorilla Grod has grabbed Flash... Your point? His point probably is speed should not be used as a deciding factor. Both of these guys are fast but get hit by jabronies.

Remember you brought up the speed?

Hey how about we all dress up like the people in the match, meet, fight, and whoever wins is the one who wins the forum match

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Simple one. He hasn't been shown to fight at that speed. Just travel.
Don't get your panties in a bunch.

(cough)

That doesnt show him fighting at high speeds. 1 swing doesnt equal fighting at high speeds imo.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
His point probably is speed should not be used as a deciding factor. Both of these guys are fast but get hit by jabronies.

Remember you brought up the speed?

See, the problem is, it isn't a small gap. Surfer is FAST. (yay microseconds!)

Originally posted by Dizzle
(cough)


You shouldn't slap women.
He's not being a very good herald.

Originally posted by jrodslam
That doesnt show him fighting at high speeds. 1 swing doesnt equal fighting at high speeds imo.

Meh, he's caught her staff before too. And that is by no means his only feat.

Originally posted by Dizzle
(cough)

I've seen Spiderman and Quicksilver do the same, where does it say light speed?

Originally posted by Dizzle
Meh, he's caught her staff before too. And that is by no means his only feat. Is he fighting the Wooly Mammoth in that pic?

Originally posted by Dizzle
See, the problem is, it isn't a small gap. Surfer is FAST. (yay microseconds!)

Once again, showing travel, not fighting.

Nice scans Dizz, but youre not showing Surfer fighting at full speeds.

Originally posted by Dizzle
See, the problem is, it isn't a small gap. Surfer is FAST. (yay microseconds!) We don't know how fast this version of Supes is. He is stronger and has some weaknesses taken away. So I think we can assume he is faster too.

lightspeed was fast anyway

Can we say that a Air-Force pilot fights as superspeed when he is flying in his F-17?

Check out this site
http://www.geocities.com/bruno_nojunk/

In the "fights" section
http://www.geocities.com/bruno_nojunk/type-fights-16.html
SS fights Krosakis after Krosakis had abosorbed the power from Gladiator and the Uni-Power. While it doesn't say what speed the are fighting, it has to be at super speed IMO

After reading through that site, I have to say that SS isn't overrated on this forum.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I've seen Spiderman and Quicksilver do the same, where does it say light speed?


You've seen Spiderman beat Ganymede? WHERE!?!?!?! And for the record, she DOES fight at lightspeed.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Is he fighting the Wooly Mammoth in that pic?

Actually, he had gone so fast that he stepped outside of time. He had time traveled back to the time when Wooly Mammoths still existed, and could pretty much go anywhen that he wanted to. Please read the scans before commenting on them...

Of course SS wins superman is a joke to him.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Once again, showing travel, not fighting.

"It takes but a MICROSECOND for the Silver Surfer to appraise the situation! And less time than that to streak to the fray!"

Read the scans.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Nice scans Dizz, but youre not showing Surfer fighting at full speeds.

1 shows him hitting Ganymede, who does fight at lightspeed. Another shows him seeing a girl in trouble, reacting, and traveling a great distance in a matter of microseconds. The last one shows him pulling some Flash crap by stepping out of time. Reactions are reactions man.

picking up a key that weighs half a million tons in one hand and smiling at the same time is a jjoke to anyone?

Originally posted by superman420sexy
picking up a key that weighs half a million tons in one hand and smiling at the same time is a jjoke to anyone?

Not a joke by any means. But what is strength when you can't use it? Hulk's lifted more than that before... Silver Surfer is much too fast to get hit by Superman, and since his firepower is pretty freaking godly, he should be able to put Supes down. All Star Supes hasn't really had enough feats of durability for me to say whether he is really durable enough to take everything Surfer can dish out. He might be able to, he might not be able to. If he can, stalemate. If not, Surfer takes him much more often than not.

Originally posted by superman420sexy
picking up a key that weighs half a million tons in one hand and smiling at the same time is a jjoke to anyone?
No and I don't think anyone here thinks Surfer can physically overpower Supes.

Originally posted by Dizzle
You've seen Spiderman beat Ganymede? WHERE!?!?!?! And for the record, she DOES fight at lightspeed.

Cute, at least your trying to be funny. Try again.

Multiple images does not equal superspeed, Spidey has done the same.

And Thanos has beat SS multiple times, none of them with Superspeed.
Originally posted by Dizzle
"It takes but a MICROSECOND for the Silver Surfer to appraise the situation! And less time than that to streak to the fray!"

Read the scans.

I have. Neither of them show fighting. I get where you are trying to go, but it's still not proof.

And it is still a bit premature to give SS or Supes a win, when you don't have all the facts on either side. Period.

nah I was just kinda commenting on how that guy who said supes was a joke to ss

I really need to get to my local to pick up ASS #2. Sounds like a good issue...

As for the fight, we don't know enough about Supes capabilities to say who'd win IMO.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Cute, at least your trying to be funny. Try again.

Multiple images does not equal superspeed, Spidey has done the same.

And Thanos has beat SS multiple times, none of them with Superspeed.

Those weren't images... Those were her moving really really really fast.

He defeated champion what does that say? Superman is a chump he gets punked by surfer.

Originally posted by Dizzle
Those weren't images... Those were her moving really really really fast.

I know what it was. I have no doubt she's quick... but, it doesnt say anything about her speed, and it doesnt prove anything on Surfers part.

Scenes like that are common in comics without light speed characters.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Cute, at least your trying to be funny. Try again.

Multiple images does not equal superspeed, Spidey has done the same.

And Thanos has beat SS multiple times, none of them with Superspeed.


I have. Neither of them show fighting. I get where you are trying to go, but it's still not proof.

And it is still a bit premature to give SS or Supes a win, when you don't have all the facts on either side. Period.

So he can see something and react at superspeed, but he can't fight with it? Your logic escapes me. It seems... biased...

I don't have the facts? All Star Supes has like... 2 comics. There's no facts to have on his side. Surfer has proven to fly at many many times the speed of light, and has occasionally been shown to be able to react that fast- escaping form energy shackles in nanoseconds, reacting to a situation from a long distance off in microseconds, searching the ENTIRE Earth for Namor in less time than it takes Doctor Strange to say a sentence, taking and understanding information that would take millenia to transmit within milliseconds, etc etc etc.

Originally posted by Mordum
He defeated champion what does that say?
That Champ is a jobber?

Originally posted by The Ion
That Champ is a jobber? EXACTLY

Originally posted by Dizzle
So he can see something and react at superspeed, but he can't fight with it? Your logic escapes me. It seems... biased...

I don't have the facts? All Star Supes has like... 2 comics. There's no facts to have on his side. Surfer has proven to fly at many many times the speed of light, and has occasionally been shown to be able to react that fast- escaping form energy shackles in nanoseconds, reacting to a situation from a long distance off in microseconds, searching the ENTIRE Earth for Namor in less time than it takes Doctor Strange to say a sentence, taking and understanding information that would take years to say instantly, etc etc etc.

But has Marvel shown him fighting at those speeds? No.

Biased? You already voted in the forum when there isn't even enough information about this "new" Superman yet and you just admitted it.

When you go to court, do you say "I can spot a guilty man just by looking at him" too? Your logic escapes me.

I haven't voted yet on either combatant in this forum. I'll reserve judgement after I see what possible new powers/weaknesses he may have. You don't have a clue what this Supes speed is yet either.

Going by forum rules surfer is just to much.Call me a fanboy what ever the you want, when you read and understand what the surfer can do then you wouldn't think he's overrated.The surfer is a Green lantern without the whole will based power level.

So picture Hal jordan at his best that's Surfer at all times since his power are not dependent of his will.

You guys bring up the fact that Thanos always hits the surfer but take into consideration that it's cis that surfer don't use his speed against him.Plus Thanos would do the exact same thing to superman so bringing up thanos is a moot point.

But they just hasn't been enough info on ASS so we'll have to wait and see.

yeah well uhm well uhm shut the fu'ck up

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
But has Marvel shown him fighting at those speeds? No.

Biased? You already voted in the forum when there isn't even enough information about this "new" Superman yet and you just admitted it.

When you go to court, do you say "I can spot a guilty man just by looking at him" too? Your logic escapes me.

I haven't voted yet on either combatant in this forum. I'll reserve judgement after I see what possible new powers/weaknesses he may have. You don't have a clue what this Supes speed is yet either.

Actually, I haven't voted... And I did say that there's not enough information on All Star Supes. The point of the argument has moved from the original topic to that of Surfer's speed.

And again, if he can react and move at superspeed, how can he NOT fight with it?

Ok, parallel example. Bob has a gun. Bob knows how to use said gun. Bob has never shot anyone before. Now, is it really a stretch to say that Bob could possibly go and shoot a guy if he really wanted to?

Your absolutely hi-freaking-larious example of a courtroom is flawed as well. Superman's strength was mutiplied by single digits. (3 was thrown around... it may be more, it may be less, but it's pretty safe to say we're not talking hundreds of times stronger than normal) It is my assumption that his speed would not be affected much more than this, as there would be no logical explanation behind that. Surfer is thousands of times faster than Superman- the size of the gap doesn't make it feasible for the boost to make up for that much of a disadvantage.

Ooh, more parallel example antics...

A guy shows up dead outside of Bob's apartment, having been shot 3 times. Bob's gun is missing 3 bullets. In court, I say he's guilty. Is it a stretch? Am I being illogical? Are you funny?

A resounding "No" to all. Your logic doesn't escape me anymore... I've figured out that it doesn't exist...

Originally posted by superman420sexy
yeah well uhm well uhm shut the fu'ck up

dam i wish my girlfriend was still over

Originally posted by Dizzle
Actually, I haven't voted... And I did say that there's not enough information on All Star Supes. The point of the argument has moved from the original topic to that of Surfer's speed.

And again, if he can react and move at superspeed, how can he NOT fight with it?

Ok, parallel example. Bob has a gun. Bob knows how to use said gun. Bob has never shot anyone before. Now, is it really a stretch to say that Bob could possibly go and shoot a guy if he really wanted to?

Your absolutely hi-freaking-larious example of a courtroom is flawed as well. Superman's strength was mutiplied by single digits. (3 was thrown around... it may be more, it may be less, but it's pretty safe to say we're not talking hundreds of times stronger than normal) It is my assumption that his speed would not be affected much more than this, as there would be no logical explanation behind that. Surfer is thousands of times faster than Superman- the size of the gap doesn't make it feasible for the boost to make up for that much of a disadvantage.
Ooh, more parallel example antics...

A guy shows up dead outside of Bob's apartment, having been shot 3 times. Bob's gun is missing 3 bullets. In court, I say he's guilty. Is it a stretch? Am I being illogical? Are you funny?

A resounding "No" to all. Your logic doesn't escape me anymore... I've figured out that it doesn't exist...

First you attempt jokes, and now so called "logic" insults as well. I won't go that route with you, because, frankly, you aren't worth it.

How can he not fight with it? Because it hasn't been shown, its about how Norrin Radd fights, not how "Dizzle" would fight. He may perfectly be able to..logically..BUT it hasn't been shown. Period.

Bob may know how to use the gun, but if he were to try and shoot batman, he would probably miss and get his behind beat. Bad "example" since it has nothing to do with Speed.

Yet you are still going about Surfers speed, blah, blah, men with guns, trying to make jokes, and insults, but you miss the basic fact.

Originally posted by Dizzle
At the risk of sounding like a idiot...

Does ASS (hehe, that's WAY too easy) have any speed feats that imply he could touch Surfer? SS is disgustingly overpowered, there's really no way to counter his speed unless you get to prepare for it and make shields. And even then you have to be at least fast enough to see/hit him. And I agree with LP, their energy projection should still be pretty close. This Superman's a little closer in speed and even farther ahead in strength, but that won't do him much good, if he can't land a shot.

Vote Surfer.

So much for not voting eh?

Once again...There isn't enough to go on. Your mind seems plenty made up already as the highlights show. I'm done with you, you are dismissed. Good night.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I don't think he's an idiot, but he definitely isn't funny either.
Who's trying to be funny? I'm being honest.

Unlike in D.C, there are characters out there in Marvel/Image/Wildstorm who's sole purpose isn't jobbing to Superman.
It's mind blowing I know, but... someone had to tell you.

Silver Surfer is way too powerful for what we've seen of ASS Superman. When Superman gains matter manipulation, then he might have a chance.

































































































Kam's a F@G!!!

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
First you attempt jokes, and now so called "logic" insults as well. I won't go that route with you, because, frankly, you aren't worth it.

How can he not fight with it? Because it hasn't been shown, its about how Norrin Radd fights, not how "Dizzle" would fight. He may perfectly be able to..logically..BUT it hasn't been shown. Period.

Bob may know how to use the gun, but if he were to try and shoot batman, he would probably miss and get his behind beat. Bad "example" since it has nothing to do with Speed.

Yet you are still going about Surfers speed, blah, blah, men with guns, trying to make jokes, and insults, but you miss the basic fact.

There isn't enough to go on. Your mind seems plenty made up already as the highlights show. I'm done with you, you are dismissed. Good night.

First you make jokes and now get pissy because I respond in kind. I like that. You've tried and failed at humor WAY too many times to try to pull the "I'm too good for barbaric things like humor!" line. Oh, and my cracks were at your wit AND your logic. Get it right.

Woah, CIS, avalon? THAT'S your argument? I thought you were being a dumbass and arguing that Surfer CAN'T use his speed in a fight, not that he doesn't. My bad. Gotta love Bloodlust though... It kills your entire rant.

My mind is made up... on Surfer vs. Normal Superman. On ASS, I started my post by saying that there isn't enough evidence to fully support either side. From there, I made inferences as to what the extent of ASS's power really is. Logically, Surfer should still be faster. Is he? I have no idea.

Originally posted by Dizzle
First you make jokes and now get pissy because I respond in kind. I like that. You've tried and failed at humor WAY too many times to try to pull the "I'm too good for barbaric things like humor!" line. Oh, and my cracks were at your wit AND your logic. Get it right.

Woah, CIS, avalon? THAT'S your argument? I thought you were being a dumbass and arguing that Surfer CAN'T use his speed in a fight, not that he doesn't. My bad. Gotta love Bloodlust though... It kills your entire rant.

My mind is made up... on Surfer vs. Normal Superman. On ASS, I started my post by saying that there isn't enough evidence to fully support either side. From there, I made inferences as to what the extent of ASS's power really is. Logically, Surfer should still be faster. Is he? I have no idea.
You'd better watch it, AV might go superman jihad on yo' white cracka ass.

Until they show up in a DC comic anyways.

Supes wins he is just to strong! He could probably tear the surfer in half!

Well this Superman's brians match his strength.

I forget how much he was lifting in the first issue where they test it.

Superman takes this hes pretty god like in this.

Originally posted by Murda Mase
Well this Superman's brians match his strength.

I forget how much he was lifting in the first issue where they test it.

Superman takes this hes pretty god like in this. Our Superman is a supergenius as well.

It was 200 quintillion tons, with one hand, and maxed the machine out, so they couldn't test any farther.

However, he still hasn't done anything that puts him in any league beyond our current Superman.

Yeah he has.

He didn't get hurt by the krypto gun.

Can Kal-el lift 200 quintillion tons? I really don't know.

Kal El?
He's lifted the moon.
He's stood in krytonite and took a nuke.
He wore the krytonite ring into combat.

The K still effects him though and this one it doesn't.

Surfer wins, I heard he has pooh vision !

Superman = Stronger and more Durable

He wins more than Thor does, which is a lot !

Jeezus, Superman defense lawyers are really packed tight in this board

this is utterly riduculous. I guess no one has read ASS#2 where he showed Lois that he built a new key to his fortress from white dawrf star matter..and how he specifially told her that it weighs over 500 million tons and he's the only person on Earth that can lift it, and guess what his fortress was built way b4 he had to dive into the sun to save those astronauts....so 500million tons wasnt even his optimum since he just picked it up off the ground, so im willing to wager that he is significantly stronger than that even without "sundipping"

SS is cool and all but i think he can be a little over rated at times.. the same way ppl feel about hal jordan. if you say hal vs the source, ppl would still find a way to argue for hal, so lets just accept it. ASS is a throwback to Pre Crsis supes and that all there is to it. SS isnt beating him anytime soon

how does superman do against reality manipulators?

Eh, Supes is still solar energy based, and Surfer can alter matter and energy signatures. He doesn't have to use kryptonite to make the solar energy already in Supes body into a toxic energy signature, or alter Supes molecular structure so that he can't metabolize the radiation and dies.

Surfer 10/10.

Supes, regardless of version, simply isn't top dog any longer. Surfer has him trumped.