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i've recently come to realize hawkman is a very cool character and one majorly bad mofo.

can he take down the little canucklehead?

Couple of questions.

Is Hawkmans shield and mace nth metal?
Would Wolvies claws be able to cut through it?

If they cant, then Carter wails on Wolvie till theres nothing left but a shiny skull. In my opinion ofcourse.

Hawkman.

Hawkman 7/10

I don't know you guys might be underestimating wolvie...cant decide yet...

^ Same here.

Pizza-the-hut....loved that movie

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Pizza-the-hut....loved that movie

Hawkman is better fighter, stronger, and has a healing factor himself. I'll say he wins.

Originally posted by leonidas
That's Pizza the Hut on jrod's sig.

It's from the movie Space Balls.

his harness is nth metal, not sure about his weapons. deathstroke was able to handle carter pretty easily in identity crisis. i'm not sure if logan can cut through the nth metal but he certainly could cut carter. is his healing factor on the same order as logan's?

like i said, i've sort of recently gotten on to hawkman, and i'm still learning about him. i'd say based on what i've seen, this is a very good and even match up, unless someone who knows a lot bout carter can give me good reasons why carter whoops him.

does he have his glove?

Originally posted by leonidas
deathstroke was able to handle carter pretty easily in identity crisis.

DS is also a million times smarter than Logan. He fights like a chess player, always twenty steps ahead of you.

true blair, but all he did was hack him with his sword. if he's quick enough to do that, logan may be as well.

and of course he does NOT have the glove . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
his harness is nth metal, not sure about his weapons. deathstroke was able to handle carter pretty easily in identity crisis. i'm not sure if logan can cut through the nth metal but he certainly could cut carter. is his healing factor on the same order as logan's?

I knhow the claw is nth metal as well. You cant say Deathstroke handeling him in IC is validated. Deathstroke handeled all the heroes in IC lol. I dont hold that against Carter at all. I dont think his healing factor is as good as Wolvies. Hes a tough s.o.b. and has a high tolerance for pain, but thats about it.

Originally posted by leonidas
like i said, i've sort of recently gotten on to hawkman, and i'm still learning about him. i'd say based on what i've seen, this is a very good and even match up, unless someone who knows a lot bout carter can give me good reasons why carter whoops him.

Hawkman is badass. Hes grown on me a bit over the past few months.

If he can keep from getting gutted, he wins. But if he does, he goes down imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
and of course he does NOT have the glove . . .

damn you take all the fun outa killing the runt

Originally posted by jrodslam
I knhow the claw is nth metal as well. You cant say Deathstroke handeling him in IC is validated. Deathstroke handeled all the heroes in IC lol. I dont hold that against Carter at all. I dont think his healing factor is as good as Wolvies. Hes a tough s.o.b. and has a high tolerance for pain, but thats about it.



Hawkman is badass. Hes grown on me a bit over the past few months.

If he can keep from getting gutted, he wins. But if he does, he goes down imo.

You're quoting Identity Crisis? Kyle Rayner-stupidly-punching-Deathstroke-Identity Crisis?

but explain why it was unreasonable as regards hawkman. gl yes. flash, maybe. but the others seemed rational enough. i don't think the whole fight needs to be thrown out because of a couple shaky scenes.

and draco, you were conspicuous by your non-stance on the fight . . .

Hawkman 8/10

Hawkman smash.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
damn you take all the fun outa killing the runt

hey, i love squashed runt as much as anyone, but i don't want to get labeled as a spite-thread-maker . . .

Originally posted by Draco69
You're quoting Identity Crisis? Kyle Rayner-stupidly-punching-Deathstroke-Identity Crisis?

It wasnt me who was. It was leonidas.

Originally posted by jrodslam
It wasnt me who was. It was leonidas.

Shame on you all....

That fight had as much PIS/CIS as anything written by Jeph Loeb. Which is a feat in itself.

Originally posted by Draco69
Shame on you all....

That fight had as much PIS/CIS as anything written by Jeph Loeb. Which is a feat in itself.

Youre telling me? I act is if it never happened.

They're both crazy great warriors and I love them both...

If Wolverine figures out to cut off what attaches Hawkman's wings, Hawkman is f-ed. Other than that, Hawkman wins.

what about that badass mace? and doesn't he have some mighty strength?

Slade was able to counter it against him. The whole fight would depend on if Wolverine knew anything about Hawkman beforehand.

Wolverine(with Adamantium)

vs

Hawkman(with mace)


Who takes it?

(And just so it doesn't become the focal point of the fight, Wolverine CAN'T cut through Hawkman's mace for this battle)

Hawkman! Maybe he should also have the claw of horus to boot!

Originally posted by Soleran
Hawkman! Maybe he should also have the claw of horus to boot!
Hey I wanted a debate. With the claw, even the most dedicated fanboys wouldn't be able to argue for Wolverine.

Hawkman knows better. He flies far far away. And drops a barrel of acid on top of wolverine.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey I wanted a debate. With the claw, even the most dedicated fanboys wouldn't be able to argue for Wolverine.
Maybe you forgot what Logan did to Thanos.
Hawkman ftw.

Bump

Hawkman

Hawkman ftw

Thousands of years more experience than Logan, plus he's stronger and tougher

I agree.

Hawkman wins however, it is a fight I'd like to see.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Hawkman ftw

Thousands of years more experience than Logan, plus he's stronger and tougher



he is i guess I didn't know that about hawkman. Anyway if batman can take him some of the time wolverine can take him some of the time. Most of the time i don't know. Wolverine is pretty good at dogeing and stealth. If this is a wooded area wolverine is going to have more of a chance.

Originally posted by jasofisc
he is i guess I didn't know that about hawkman. Anyway if batman can take him some of the time wolverine can take him some of the time. Most of the time i don't know. Wolverine is pretty good at dogeing and stealth. If this is a wooded area wolverine is going to have more of a chance.

Apparently, you didn't read Crisis of Continence

*Batman punches Hawkman in the face as hard as he can*

*Hawkman gets up grabbing his mace*

Hawkman: I hope that was worth it Batman, because i'm going to give you 5 minutes you'll never forget

Bad Ass

Originally posted by Grimm22
Apparently, you didn't read Crisis of Continence

*Batman punches Hawkman in the face as hard as he can*

*Hawkman gets up grabbing his mace*

Hawkman: I hope that was worth it Batman, because i'm going to give you 5 minutes you'll never forget

Bad Ass

How do you know Batman was punching him as hard has he could?

i did read it and yeah it was pretty bad@$$. However it never said batman punched him as hard as he could, also batman was the one who drawed blood not hawkman he just had a cool line.

Something about a big bird guy... I don't know... does Wolverine get a Shotgun?

Originally posted by batdude123
How do you know Batman was punching him as hard has he could?

Because Bats was REALLY pissed off

Originally posted by Grimm22
Because Bats was REALLY pissed off

doesn't mean he hit him as hard as he could

Originally posted by jasofisc
doesn't mean he hit him as hard as he could You do tend to unleash a little bit more when your pissed though.

Originally posted by jasofisc
doesn't mean he hit him as hard as he could

Either way, Hawkman has KO'ed Superman before (with prep)

But the mace itself is more than enough to take out Logan

not that it matters either way batman drew blood that's good enough

Originally posted by batdude123
How do you know Batman was punching him as hard has he could?
There's no real proof that he did. But isn't Hawkman something in like the 20 ton range? If so, I doubt that Bats held back(at least that makes sense to me).

Originally posted by Grimm22
Either way, Hawkman has KO'ed Superman before (with prep)

But the mace itself is more than enough to take out Logan


with the claw of horus

logan has been hit with numerous hits from wonderman and was still conscience. (not saying we would wind against wonderman but the mace is doing crap)

if hawkman is class 20 he doesn't have that kind of durability (the blood from batman's punch whether full force or not) and wolverine's claw would rip him apart. The big problem for wolverine is getting his claws on him.

Originally posted by darthgoober
There's no real proof that he did. But isn't Hawkman something in like the 20 ton range? If so, I doubt that Bats held back(at least that makes sense to me).

Yeah, I made that shit up when I said it.

He's not class 20.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah, I made that shit up when I said it.

He's not class 20.
What is he then?

Originally posted by darthgoober
What is he then?

Not exactly sure.

All I really know is that his strength is enhanced quite a bit.

Where's all the Wolverine fans?

Originally posted by darthgoober
What is he then?
10-15 range I would say

he also has a really good healing factor

Wolverine is even with this guy 5 out of 5 I just checked up on him and he has enhanced strength, the 9th metal heals wounds (crisis of conscience) and his weapons are pretty sweet too. However wolverine (even though haters think this) is not some guy with knives on his hands. stealth is what's going to get wolverine his wins.

Originally posted by jasofisc
Wolverine is even with this guy 5 out of 5 I just checked up on him and he has enhanced strength, the 9th metal heals wounds (crisis of conscience) and his weapons are pretty sweet too. However wolverine (even though haters think this) is not some guy with knives on his hands. stealth is what's going to get wolverine his wins.

Nope

Hawkman also has enhanced senses, especially sight

He was able to see Flash vibrating so fast he was invisible

oh durning identy crisis so then wolverine just cuts the wings off

yeah I read that book too try to remember all of it next time you post

Originally posted by Grimm22
Nope

Hawkman also has enhanced senses, especially sight

He was able to see Flash vibrating so fast he was invisible


Wolverine also has enhanced senses

Originally posted by jasofisc
oh durning identy crisis so then wolverine just cuts the wings off

And Hawkman is just going to let him?!?

IC DS was how Slade should be portrayed (Well except for the whole, somehow beat Green Lantern thing)

It doesn't matter, as Hawkman's mace can probably knock Logan's head off with any luck

and if it dosen't Wolverine still goes into comatose

Originally posted by jasofisc
Wolverine also has enhanced senses

enhanced smelling is his only ENHANCED sense

All his other senses are pretty much normal

what ever only if their is PIS is wolverine is going down

Originally posted by Grimm22
enhanced smelling is his only ENHANCED sense

All his other senses are pretty much normal


do you know anything about wolverine

you are such a hater grimm that you try to take away wolverine's powers and feats

Originally posted by Grimm22
enhanced smelling is his only ENHANCED sense

All his other senses are pretty much normal
You forgot enhanced taste.

IC was terible feats for the hero's flash being taged was crap and so was the whole hawkman thing too. It was a great story though

i'm not try to say that wolverine is going to curb stomp wolverine but he can break even with him.

Originally posted by Grimm22
enhanced smelling is his only ENHANCED sense

All his other senses are pretty much normal

...

Everyone one of Wolverine's senses are enhanced. His sense of sight, touch, taste, hearing and hearing are all many, many times better then human because of constant cellular regeneration.

but I guess i'm just some fanboy who thinks wolverine is God

Originally posted by jasofisc
but I guess i'm just some fanboy who thinks wolverine is God Hit the nail right on the head there, you did. Good show.

Originally posted by jasofisc
do you know anything about wolverine

I believe that Grimm has said that his first experience with Wolverine was during Millar's Enemy of the State run... or maybe Capt said that about him concerning this lack of knowledge of Wolverine. I forget which one but you can choose the one you like best.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Hit the nail right on the head there, you did. Good show.


yeap anyone who thinks wolverine can take any one above a common thug is a total fanboy.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
...

Everyone one of Wolverine's senses are enhanced. His sense of sight, touch, taste, hearing and hearing are all many, many times better then human because of constant cellular regeneration.

Thats pretty much what I meant

Wolverine's only ENCHANCED sense is smell

The rest of his senses are on Cap's level, which are above the level of a normal human

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I believe that Grimm has said that his first experience with Wolverine was during Millar's Enemy of the State run... or maybe Capt said that about him concerning this lack of knowledge of Wolverine. I forget which one but you can choose the one you like best.

No, that was the first time I had bought Wolverine's solo book

I have always known who Wolverine is and whatnot

I didn't start to resent him until I came upon KMC, although I did hate how he was in EVERY freakin' book

Originally posted by Grimm22
Thats pretty much what I meant

Wolverine's only ENCHANCED sense is smell

The rest of his senses are on Cap's level, which are above the level of a normal human

... All of his senses are far superior then Captain America. His sense of hearing and smell are the most writen about of his abilities but all of his sense are equally impressive.

Originally posted by Grimm22
No, that was the first time I had bought Wolverine's solo book

I have always known who Wolverine is and whatnot

I didn't start to resent him until I came upon KMC, although I did hate how he was in EVERY freakin' book

I know I was just trying to push your buttons.

Originally posted by jasofisc
yeap anyone who thinks wolverine can take any one above a common thug is a total fanboy. There are lots of people Wolverine can take. Captain America, Batman, Nightwing, Elektra... list goes on. Hawkman isn't on it.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
... All of his senses are far superior then Captain America. His sense of hearing and smell are the most writen about of his abilities but all of his sense are equally impressive.

I don't know about FAR superior, but I can see you're point

Still, don't even try to put him on Daredevil level

Originally posted by Grimm22
I don't know about FAR superior, but I can see you're point

Still, don't even try to put him on Daredevil level

His sense of smell is better then Daredevil while Daredevil's sense of hearing is better then Wolverine's. As for there other senses? Well... most of them are presented enought to make a case either way but Wolverine has the clear edge in sight

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
There are lots of people Wolverine can take. Captain America, Batman, Nightwing, Elektra... list goes on. Hawkman isn't on it.


why

besides the claw of horus what makes hawkman out of his league

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
His sense of smell is better then Daredevil while Daredevil's sense of hearing is better then Wolverine's. As for there other senses? Well... most of them are presented enought to make a case either way but Wolverine has the clear edge in sight

Yep

Originally posted by jasofisc
besides the claw of horus what makes hawkman out of his league

Or ya know, it could be his thousands of years of experience, thousands of years worth of fighting skills, mastery of nearly all weapons, enhanced senses, super strength, ect...

Yeah, i'm pretty sure Hawkman doesn't need a weapon he used to KO' Superman to take down Wolverine

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
There are lots of people Wolverine can take. Captain America, Batman, Nightwing, Elektra... list goes on. Hawkman isn't on it.

Now normally I wouldn't give an opinion on this fight because relatively speaking I really don't know that much about Hawkman but I have decided to make an exception. As far as I know Hawkman doesn't have a viable ranged option which means despite have the ability of flight he still needs to get in close to hit Wolverine and if he can hit Wolverine can hit him. Also I wouldn't beat on healing capabilities the Nth metal in stows over Wolverine. Anyway it certainly doesn't seem so one sided in Hawkman's favour that it is an open shut case... but then again I'm hardly the Hawkman expert.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Or ya know, it could be his thousands of years of experience, thousands of years worth of fighting skills, mastery of nearly all weapons, enhanced senses, super strength, ect...

Yeah, i'm pretty sure Hawkman doesn't need a weapon he used to KO' Superman to take down Wolverine


yet batman owns him in hand to hand

how does he have thousands of years of fighting skill just because he can remember his other life times doesn't mean it's all strait fighting skill or that he can just take up from where he left off. His super strength is not enough to affect wolverine in a big way. and wolverine has every other abilty he has besides flight

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Now normally I wouldn't give an opinion on this fight because relatively speaking I really don't know that much about Hawkman but I have decided to make an exception. As far as I know Hawkman doesn't have a viable ranged option which means despite have the ability of flight he still needs to get in close to hit Wolverine and if he can hit Wolverine can hit him. Also I wouldn't beat on healing capabilities the Nth metal in stows over Wolverine. Anyway it certainly doesn't seem so one sided in Hawkman's favour that it is an open shut case... but then again I'm hardly the Hawkman expert.


it doesn't seem like anyone is considering there talking him up like the hulk. I read his bio on wikipeda and seen only a few apearnces of him. All of which he was owned by batman. So i'm just not seeing how he is some much better then wolverine. If he was thousands of year expirence then why does he over extend all the time? that should be somthing a person stops doing after one life time.

Originally posted by jasofisc
it doesn't seem like anyone is considering there talking him up like the hulk. I read his bio on wikipeda and seen only a few apearnces of him. All of which he was owned by batman. So i'm just not seeing how he is some much better then wolverine. If he was thousands of year expirence then why does he over extend all the time? that should be somthing a person stops doing after one life time.

KMC Rule #1) It is acceptable to inaccurately and irrationally built up any character in question so long as you are debating against Wolverine.


Many posters act like Wolverine vs. Hercules is the biggest travesty they've ever witnessed. Like Hercules is on the level that he can effortless show up and manhandle Wolverine? Give me a break. Hercules isn't immortal, he isn't invulberable, he can't fly, he doesn't have energy blasts... he has to fight in melee but apparenly Wolverine vs. Hercules is an open shut case? Fighting Wolverine automaticly gives his opponent 100 free stat points for the debater to spend where they want.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
KMC Rule #1) It is acceptable to inaccurately and irrationally built up any character in question so long as you are debating against Wolverine.

The first rule of KMC is to hate on wolverine...
The second rule of KMC is... to hate on wolverine...

The third rule of KMC... is to hate on wolverine...

Originally posted by rotiart
The first rule of KMC is to hate on wolverine...
The second rule of KMC is... to hate on wolverine...

The third rule of KMC... is to hate on wolverine...



I didn't get the memo on the rule changes...

Luckily they are pretty much the same as they were when I joined KMC

But so long as the masses feel a false sense of camaraderie and acceptance by pretending to hate Wolverine, I guess everything works out...


...damn trend hoppers.

correct me if im wrong but didnt Hawkman beat Archangel in some crossover when AA still was apolcalypsified...not sure if that is concidered cannon...never got into DC/Marvel crossovers

Hello Jason !! We have a new Logan fanboy I think.

Also Shrank you are a big fanboy. And Capts *****.

Keep the faith

Stay AJ

Originally posted by bumbum
Hello Jason !! We have a new Logan fanboy I think.

Also Shrank you are a big fanboy. And Capts *****.

Keep the faith

Stay AJ


yeap total fanboy even though I think wolverine breaks even or wins only a little against people like captain america and daredevil. And i Don't believe the whole hawkman hype crap. No one has said anything to make me believe that he is above a street level character. I've only had people site two books that make hawkman look like crap. IC and CC. possessed batman (not as good as normal batman) beat the ever loving crap out of him. So yeah in what way is hawkman superior.

Originally posted by bumbum
Hello Jason !! We have a new Logan fanboy I think.

Also Shrank you are a big fanboy. And Capts *****.

Keep the faith

Stay AJ

Um, Actually Srank is anything but a fanboy

Just because he is defending Logan dosen't mean he is Wolvertooth for pete's sake

I'd say Wolverine wins.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Um, Actually Srank is anything but a fanboy

Just because he is defending Logan dosen't mean he is Wolvertooth for pete's sake Actually Shrank has proven to be massive one many times before.


Grimm no one is Wolvertooth. He is unique.

Originally posted by HelloThere
Actually Shrank has proven to be massive one many times before.


Grimm no one is Wolvertooth. He is unique.



how do you know junor member

Shrank is diffently not a wolverine fanboy

Indeed.

You all ARE aware that there is no H in Srankmissingnin, right?

Batman owns Hawkman because he's as big a jobber as Wolverine is. I call the fight pretty even. Wolverine is going to tag him a few times when he swoops on offense and that probably wouldnt be too pretty, but i'll go as far as saying that Hawkman has a one punch potential with the mace. 5/5.

Also, people have talked about a comic where Batman punched Hawkman and Hawkman said he was in for a hurting afterwards. Did Hawkman fight back or was that the end of it. Scans would be cool too if possible.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Um, Actually Srank is anything but a fanboy

Just because he is defending Logan dosen't mean he is Wolvertooth for pete's sake

Ah shucks, I love you to Grimm

Originally posted by Soljer
You all ARE aware that there is no H in Srankmissingnin, right?

A few people seem to be throw that 'h' in there... can't say I understand why though. Maybe it is an inside joke I don't get.

Originally posted by HelloThere
Actually Shrank has proven to be massive one many times before.


My respect for Srank >x1000 Any respect for you

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Ah shucks, I love you to Grimm

Hey, nowadays I need as many freinds as I can get

Batman beat Hawkman when he had no weapons or wings and was trying to talk Batman out of being mind-controlled from Despero. Actually reading the story goes a long way.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Um, Actually Srank is anything but a fanboy

Just because he is defending Logan dosen't mean he is Wolvertooth for pete's sake

Actually he stated Wolverine could beat Guardian and the reason he lost the first time to Guardian as Mac had all the information on him, while Wolverine had nothing on him.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Batman beat Hawkman when he had no weapons or wings and was trying to talk Batman out of being mind-controlled from Despero. Actually reading the story goes a long way.


Still batman was at as much as a disadvantage as Hawkman since his mind (batman's greatest weapon) was out of wake because he was mind-controlled. Once again if hawkman had thousands of years of fighting expirence and was a thousand years good. The should have been able to take out a batman who didn't really have access to his vast knowledge of his fighting abilities. Nor did he use any of his weapons. If hawkman is as good a fighter as people are saying then he should have been able to take out batman who was not using any of his "toys" against him. So what is your opinion Mungi about wolverine and hawkman. I at first gave the majority to hawkman and was basically called a fanboy because I didn't say it would be a curb stomp.

Originally posted by Devil Lance
10-15 range I would say

he also has a really good healing factor

NO

FREAKIN

WAY.

He doesn't have any feats that put him on that level. NONE. He's probably in the 1-4 range.

Originally posted by Grimm22
enhanced smelling is his only ENHANCED sense

All his other senses are pretty much normal

crylaugh

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Actually he stated Wolverine could beat Guardian and the reason he lost the first time to Guardian as Mac had all the information on him, while Wolverine had nothing on him.

No I said Wolverine has beat Mac more the Mac has beat him - or at least finished more fights with the advantage over Hudson - and it's true. I said that in responce to you saying something along the lines of "Guardian has beat Wolverine in every incounter" which isn't even remotely true. I also said that the main reason Mac beat Wolverine so easily in their first fight was that Wolverine had never fought Mac in his Guardian suit while Hudson knew what Wolverine is capable inside and out. Can Wolverine beat Hudson in a fair fight? No. Hudson can fly and has ranged attacks, if he could do nothing else that would be enough.

Originally posted by jasofisc
Still batman was at as much as a disadvantage as Hawkman since his mind (batman's greatest weapon) was out of wake because he was mind-controlled. Once again if hawkman had thousands of years of fighting expirence and was a thousand years good. The should have been able to take out a batman who didn't really have access to his vast knowledge of his fighting abilities. Nor did he use any of his weapons. If hawkman is as good a fighter as people are saying then he should have been able to take out batman who was not using any of his "toys" against him. So what is your opinion Mungi about wolverine and hawkman. I at first gave the majority to hawkman and was basically called a fanboy because I didn't say it would be a curb stomp.

Not really, they were still fighting to the best of their ability as noted Despero just altered what was already inside of each of them. Their distrust for each other as at the time the JLA were falling apart. Yes, he should have taken him out....easily. However, Batman has taken down the likes of Grundy, his jobber aura is impressive. Hawkman has gone from being a cowboy in the old West, to an Egyptian pharoah, etc. With his vast experience not many should challenge him hand to hand combat.

Hawkman would win if he uses all his weapons and abilities

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
No I said Wolverine has beat Mac more the Mac has beat him - or at least finished the fight with the advantage over Hudson - and it's true. I said that in responce to you saying something along the lines of "Guardian has beat Wolverine in every incounter" which isn't even remotely true. I also said that the main reason Mac beat Wolverine so easily in their first fight was that Wolverine had never fought Mac in his Guardian suit while Hudson knew what Wolverine is capable inside and out. Can Wolverine beat Hudson in a fair fight? No. Hudson can fly and has ranged attacks, if he could do nothing else that would be enough.

Which isn't true as Wolverine never did beat him or have any kind of advantage as noted his shield blocks Wolverine's claws. Right, prove to me where I said that, because I just read that entire thread again and no where did I state that. Try again. R..i..g..h..t...and yet he was around when he created the Groundhog armor which is basically the less-developed Guardian armor. Mac in the first fight beat him physically, he didn't even use blasts or anything. Heck, Guardian's E-M blasts ahve killed people as durable as Sasquatch with one attack.

Ummm...is that all you think Mac can do? He has complete control over the E-M spectrum, even has punked a weakened Galactus. I assume your not familar with Guardian....at all.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The only time Mac won was when he first donned the Guardian armor and threw down with Logan. Wolverine was at a large disadvantage have no intel on Mac's armor and Mac himself knew everything their to know about Wolverine...

Seriously if you think Wolverine was merely at a disadvantage due to intelligence I suggest you look at what Mac can actually do. As even if he knew what the suit could do...what the hell could Wolveine even do? nothing....at all.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Which isn't true as Wolverine never did beat him or have any kind of advantage as noted his shield blocks Wolverine's claws. Right, prove to me where I said that, because I just read that entire thread again and no where did I state that. Try again. R..i..g..h..t...and yet he was around when he created the Groundhog armor which is basically the less-developed Guardian armor. Mac in the first fight beat him physically, he didn't even use blasts or anything. Heck, Guardian's E-M blasts ahve killed people as durable as Sasquatch with one attack.

Ummm...is that all you think Mac can do? He has complete control over the E-M spectrum, even has punked a weakened Galactus. I assume your not familar with Guardian....at all.



Seriously if you think Wolverine was merely at a disadvantage due to intelligence I suggest you look at what Mac can actually do. As even if he knew what the suit could do...what the hell could Wolveine even do? nothing....at all.

You don't read very well do you? I said Mac can fly and has energy blasts (now this is the important part so try to keep up) if he could do nothing else that would be enough. Shall I explain to you what that means or did you get it the second time around?

The Groundhog armor was a clunky prototype for the Guardian armor, sure Mac's research and work on the Groundhog armor is the foundation for his later work but it is much more primitive. Mac created the Groundhog armor for Am-Can which, if I remember correctly, was a fuel company; the Guardian armor on the other hand was created for the military with military applications.

Uncanny X-Men 121: Mac blasts Wolverine but Wolverine closes the gap and pins Guardian. Wolverine his sitting on top of Guardian read to open up Hudson if necessary when the fight is interrupted by Shaman losing control of the weather. Advantage: Wolverine

Uncanny X-Men 355: Mac trashes Wolverine's bike causing Wolverine and Sauron to crash. Wolverine prison rushes Guardian, clocks him and is then seen fighting the rest of Alpha Flight with Guardian being of little use as Wolverine avoids all his attacks and tussles with the rest of Flight. Advantage: Wolverine.

Alpha Flight v2 1: Think Wolverine is down Mac lets his guard down and gets a chest full of claw. Advantage Wolverine.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You don't read very well do you? I said Mac can fly and has energy blasts (now this is the important part so try to keep up) if he could do nothing else that would be enough. Shall I explain to you what that means or did you get it the second time around?

The Groundhog armor was a clunky prototype for the Guardian armor, sure Mac's research and work on the Groundhog armor is the foundation for his later work but it is much more primitive. Mac created the Groundhog armor for Am-Can which, if I remember correctly, was a fuel company; the Guardian armor on the other hand was created for the military with military applications.

Uncanny X-Men 121: Mac blasts Wolverine but Wolverine closes the gap and pins Guardian. Wolverine his sitting on top of Guardian read to open up Hudson if necessary when the fight is interrupted by Shaman losing control of the weather. Advantage: Wolverine

Uncanny X-Men 355: Mac trashes Wolverine's bike causing Wolverine and Sauron to crash. Wolverine prison rushes Guardian, clocks him and is then seen fighting the rest of Alpha Flight with Guardian being of little use as Wolverine avoids all his attacks and tussles with the rest of Flight. Advantage: Wolverine.

Alpha Flight v2 1: Think Wolverine is down Mac lets his guard down and gets a chest full of claw. Advantage Wolverine.

Right and you said Wolverine was at a disadvantage since he didn't have intel oooook...what the hell could Wolverine do with any intel on his suit? Please you act like he could do anything to Wolverine, when yet his shields have blocked Witchfire, Shaman, Human Torch, Windshear, Vindicator II's combined blasts with no ill effects. Yet his claws, which have been shown and stated not to be able to penertrate will somehow work? Please.

Wow, thanks for information I ALREADY KNOW. Didn't I just say it was a less developed suit? and no it wasn't a prototype as Mac wore it as Weapon Alpha w/ Wolverine against Chinnook and the Groundhog armor was used when Wolveine led First Flight.

Haha no. Here lets make it simple for you...what the hell could Wolverine do to him in that position? hmmmm...dick all. So tackling someone who you have no means of actually hurting means advantage? come on now. I thought you said you wern't a fanboy

That wasn't Mac, that was a weaker clone and as stated...brain washed. Even Storm made comment they were fighting like they were brain washed. Hell, Heather as shown and stated didn't even know Wolverine's name was Wolverine thanks to Department H messing with their memories. Nice try

You obviously ignored my post in the other thread now didn't you?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Ooooh nice try, as stated later in the series that was a memory manipulation from Department H to cover up what they did with the real James (shoot him in space). If you knew continuity when Wolverine was still savage, James was donning the Groundhog armor and even then was long time cured as shown in the Alpha Flight special: First Flight (vol.1) & Alpha Flight: Blast from the Past (Vol.2), which goes against that "flashback". Even that flashback had "James" letting his guard down, he didn't even want to fight him it was a experiment to help treate him. Also Wolverine was in his X-Men attire, another example it was an edited memory

haha dead to rights? please have you seen what Mac's shields are capable of? block a nuclear explosion and blocked attacks from Shaman, Human Torch, Vindicator, Windshear and Witchfire all at the same time. Dead to rights? please.

No one won, Mac thought Wolverine turned into a murderer and was proven wrong and apologized

His disadvantage was intelligence? please, are you even familar with Guardian's powerset? you know what make a Wolverine vs. Guardian thread and we shall see.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Here to further back up my point, here's just one scan of many that go against AF #1 Vol.2 Wolverine is no longer savage and Mac is wearing the Groundhog armor. This even came a month before issue #1

1. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlight-IntheBeginning-1-Flashb.jpg

*correction this wasn't blast from the past, but "Alpha Flight: In the Beggining"*

Example of Department H messing with their minds, showing Heather not even remembering Logan's codename:

1. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlightv208-TheWeaponXFiles-20.jpg

Here Department H made the team believe Shaman created Wolverine:

1. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlightv208-TheWeaponXFiles-16.jpg

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Right and you said Wolverine was at a disadvantage since he didn't have intel oooook...what the hell could Wolverine do with any intel on his suit? Please you act like he could do anything to Wolverine, when yet his shields have blocked Witchfire, Shaman, Human Torch, Windshear, Vindicator II's combined blasts with no ill effects. Yet his claws, which have been shown and stated not to be able to penertrate will somehow work? Please.

Wow, thanks for information I ALREADY KNOW. Didn't I just say it was a less developed suit? and no it wasn't a prototype as Mac wore it as Weapon Alpha w/ Wolverine against Chinnook and the Groundhog armor was used when Wolveine led First Flight.

Haha no. Here lets make it simple for you...what the hell could Wolverine do to him in that position? hmmmm...dick all. So tackling someone who you have no means of actually hurting means advantage? come on now. I thought you said you wern't a fanboy

That wasn't Mac, that was a weaker clone and as stated...brain washed. Even Storm made comment they were fighting like they were brain washed. Hell, Heather as shown and stated didn't even know Wolverine's name was Wolverine thanks to Department H messing with their memories. Nice try

You obviously ignored my post in the other thread now didn't you?

Yes Alpha Flight v2 1 is a continuity error. Mac has the Guardian armor and Wolverine is still with Department H, is feral but has his long "eared" X-Men cowl. It doesn't fit any where in continuity unless you use a lot imagination. But then a lot of Wolverine's continuity is a mess thats hard to place but that doesn't mean it never happened. Besides it is likely that Hudson was working on the Guardian suit while Wolverine was still a member of Department H and considering the Canadian Government's penchant for messing with the minds of their soldier it is possible that the but Wolverine in a temporary animistic state in order to test the capabilities of an early Guardian armor model. Sure we weren't given enough on panel information to even begin to explain what was happening in that issue (really it is just one of many examples of Marvel garbage in the the '90's) but that doesn't mean that it can't be explained with a little ingenuity.

Moving on.

I believe your exact words were "haha bull when has Wolverine ever and I mean ever beat Mac?" so I listed three examples of Wolverine having the advantage through a fight with Mac. Now I'm not condoning any of this fights (haven't I already said Wolverine can't beat Guardian?) but you want to know when Wolverine has beaten Guardian so I told you. If you don't want me to answer your questions in the future, then don't ask them.

Also I don't recall Storm ever saying anything about Alpha Flight fighting like clones... or any of the x-men commenting on Alpha Flight's fighting ability. The closest to that was Wolverine saying "are you day dreaming Mac" (or something along those lines) and in true Mac was off his game fighting with his brain washing and actual memories of Wolverine that were penetrating the haze of false ones.


... and when has it ever been said that Wolverine can't pierce the Guardian armor?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Yes Alpha Flight v2 1 is a continuity error. Mac has the Guardian armor and Wolverine is still with Department H, is feral but has his long "eared" X-Men cowl. It doesn't fit any where in continuity unless you use a lot imagination. But then a lot of Wolverine's continuity is a mess thats hard to place but that doesn't mean it never happened. Besides it is likely that Hudson was working on the Guardian suit while Wolverine was still a member of Department H and considering the Canadian Government's penchant for messing with the minds of their soldier it is possible that the but Wolverine in a temporary animistic state in order to test the capabilities of an early Guardian armor model. Sure we weren't given enough on panel information to even begin to explain what was happening in that issue (really it is just one of many examples of Marvel garbage in the the '90's) but that doesn't mean that it can't be explained with a little ingenuity.

Moving on.

I believe your exact words were "haha bull when has Wolverine ever and I mean ever beat Mac?" so I listed three examples of Wolverine having the advantage through a fight with Mac. Now I'm not condoning any of this fights (haven't I already said Wolverine can't beat Guardian?) but you want to know when Wolverine has beaten Guardian so I told you. If you don't want me to answer your questions in the future, then don't ask them.

Also I don't recall Storm ever saying anything about Alpha Flight fighting like clones... or any of the x-men commenting on Alpha Flight's fighting ability. The closest to that was Wolverine saying "are you day dreaming Mac" (or something along those lines) and in true Mac was off his game fighting with his brain washing and actual memories of Wolverine that were penetrating the haze of false ones.


... and when has it ever been said that Wolverine can't pierce the Guardian armor?

No it was stated it was Department H messing with Mac clones mind so they could send the real Mac into space. The handbook made an error to what was stated in the actual comics as well. The scans I show were direct tie-ins from issue #1, it was clearly to show something was wrong with Department H as even the scans I showed earlier was proof Department H routinely altered their memories. Mac found out they were testing a virus on humans so they got rid of him. Here is the proof

1. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlightv219-AlphaOmega02-17.jpg
2. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlightv219-AlphaOmega02-18.jpg

Right and I did state and what did you say before that? "Wolverine has beaten Mac more times the to opposite has happened", he has never beaten Mac and that's why I called bull. Now your twisting your own words, you clearly stated he beat him, not advantage. No you implied he merely lost his first fight due to he lacked intel and would do better if he had any. Bull, did you even read the posts I made in the other thread? I called you up and proved your points inaccurate

Fighting like clones? I never said that. Read what I wrote "Storm made comment they were fighting like they were brain washed". Here's the scans in question. If you also actually believe their powers were not hindered and that Wolverine could get the advantage over the team your lost. That Guardian that fought was stated in vol.2 was a clone of the original Guardian but weaker.

1. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlightv209-NorthSouth-20.jpg
2. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/unc_xmen_v1_355_20_rougher.jpg

Wolverine himself stated it in UXM #140. Also I repeat his shields have blocked a nuclear explosion...you do the math. Hell just look at the respect thread.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
No it was stated it was Department H messing with Mac clones mind so they could send the real Mac into space. The handbook made an error to what was stated in the actual comics as well. The scans I show were direct tie-ins from issue #1, it was clearly to show something was wrong with Department H as even the scans I showed earlier was proof Department H routinely altered their memories. Mac found out they were testing a virus on humans so they got rid of him. Here is the proof

1. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlightv219-AlphaOmega02-17.jpg
2. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlightv219-AlphaOmega02-18.jpg

Right and I did state and what did you say before that? "Wolverine has beaten Mac more times the to opposite has happened", he has never beaten Mac and that's why I called bull. Now your twisting your own words, you clearly stated he beat him, not advantage. No you implied he merely lost his first fight due to he lacked intel and would do better if he had any. Bull, did you even read the posts I made in the other thread? I called you up and proved your points inaccurate

Fighting like clones? I never said that. Read what I wrote "Storm made comment they were fighting like they were brain washed". Here's the scans in question. If you also actually believe their powers were not hindered and that Wolverine could get the advantage over the team your lost. That Guardian that fought was stated in vol.2 was a clone of the original Guardian but weaker.

1. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlightv209-NorthSouth-20.jpg
2. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/unc_xmen_v1_355_20_rougher.jpg

Wolverine himself stated it in UXM #140. Also I repeat his shields have blocked a nuclear explosion...you do the math. Hell just look at the respect thread.

I'm not very active so sometimes I post stuff and have forgotten about it by the time I'm next on... I'm sure there are lots of unanswered rebuttals concerning comments I've made.

Anyway two Guardians were able to temporarily generate a electromagnetic shield to withstand the blast with help of Radius; don't act like it is some casually thing Mac can do all the time. Even with his clone and radius he wasn't sure they would be able to hold off the blast. And the disparity in power between the real Mac and the clone was that great. When they fought there wasn't that much of a difference and even Mac's advantage can be attributed to the fact that he messed with the clones head an proved the he wasn't the real Mac Hudson.

Storm never said they where fighting like the where brain washed, she said they were acting like they were brain washed... which is convent since they were in fact brain washed. There skills and training weren't hindered as a result of the brain washing, they just didn't remember anything about Wolverine. Mac's mind had just uncovered some real memories about his relationship with Wolverine that were in direct conflict with his tampered memories so he was more then a little out of it.

The fighting like clones thing was a mistake on my part. I was writing something different then what I posted and never changed clone to brainwashed after I went back and changed it. So just ignore that.

Oh, and I changed my wording from beat Guardian to "finished with the advantage" so I could include the fight from UXM 355/AFv2 9. Three examples are better then two after all.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'm not very active so sometimes I post stuff and have forgotten about it by the time I'm next on... I'm sure there are lots of unanswered rebuttals concerning comments I've made.

Anyway two Guardians were able to temporarily generate a electromagnetic shield to withstand the blast with help of Radius; don't act like it is some casually thing Mac can do all the time. Even with his clone and radius he wasn't sure they would be able to hold off the blast.

Storm never said they where fighting like the where brain washed, she said they were acting like they were brain washed... which is convent since they were in fact brain washed. There skills and training weren't hindered as a result of the brain washing, they just didn't remember anything about Wolverine. Mac's mind had just uncovered some real memories about his relationship with Wolverine that were in direct conflict with his tampered memories so he was more then a little out of it.
Oh, and I changed my wording from beat Guardian to "finished with the advantage" so I could include the fight from UXM 355/AFv2 9. Three examples are better then two after all.

That's fine, your here now so all is well.

huh? Radius didn't do much as he can't extend his forecefield around others only himself. Clone Mac is stated to be in fact weaker, even demoted to Beta Flight being kicked out of Alpha. Hell he probally could as Mac's sent an E-M field around the entire Hellpounder which blocked the atomic blast. Well look at what Guardian has done, Heather took out two Great Beasts and Mac took down Galactus when the combined might of Alpha Flight/Avengers couldn't and he did it with one attack.

Actually they were once again as stated, as Department H blanked most of their memories and rewrote it to suit their needs..completly. Did we even see Vindicator use one blast? Even in early issues of vol.2 when General Clarke was running Department H Puck was making comments he was struggling to fight how he use to, as something was holding him back. What was which was revealed later was them altering his mind. Once again the entire team at that period were losing the advantage to Wolverine you don't think they were hindered at all? Memories is greatly impacted on skill.

But two of which are of a weaker copy and one that was brain washed. If his adamintum claws can't penetrate why would bone claw Wolverine still have the advantage? I just don't see it. However, my main beef was the fact you stated he beat him when he never did. Guardian is underated

1. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlightv191-19.jpg
2. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlightv191-20.jpg
===

---------------------------------------------
Durability
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Alpha Flight #94 (Vol.1)
Knowing the best way to stop Headlok is to activate Mac's computer mind, so Vindicator, Windshear, Human Torch, Shaman and Witchfire all attack him at once and all it did was activate his computer mind

1. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight94-15.jpg
2. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight94-16.jpg
3. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight94-17.jpg

Originally posted by King_Mungi
That's fine, your here now so all is well.

huh? Radius didn't do much as he can't extend his forecefield around others only himself. Clone Mac is stated to be in fact weaker, even demoted to Beta Flight being kicked out of Alpha. Hell he probally could as Mac's sent an E-M field around the entire Hellpounder which blocked the atomic blast. Well look at what Guardian has done, Heather took out two Great Beasts and Mac took down Galactus when the combined might of Alpha Flight/Avengers couldn't and he did it with one attack.

Actually they were once again as stated, as Department H blanked most of their memories and rewrote it to suit their needs..completly. Did we even see Vindicator use one blast? Even in early issues of vol.2 when General Clarke was running Department H Puck was making comments he was struggling to fight how he use to, as something was holding him back. What was which was revealed later was them altering his mind. Once again the entire team at that period were losing the advantage to Wolverine you don't think they were hindered at all? Memories is greatly impacted on skill.

But two of which are of a weaker copy and one that was brain washed. If his adamintum claws can't penetrate why would bone claw Wolverine still have the advantage? I just don't see it. However, my main beef was the fact you stated he beat him when he never did. Guardian is underated

1. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlightv191-19.jpg
2. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlightv191-20.jpg
===

---------------------------------------------
Durability
---------------------------------------------
Alpha Flight #94 (Vol.1)
Knowing the best way to stop Headlok is to activate Mac's computer mind, so Vindicator, Windshear, Human Torch, Shaman and Witchfire all attack him at once and all it did was activate his computer mind

1. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight94-15.jpg
2. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight94-16.jpg
3. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight94-17.jpg


*shrugs* Mac seemed to think that Radius' force field would reinforce the one that he and Clone Mac had set up to stop the blast. I don't understand forcefield science but Mac is a genius and he got the impression that Radius' power would help him in that situation. Did it? I don't know but he seemed to think that it would. Anyway the nuke feat is hardly the norm and it took three people to pull off; Mac may have been the pillar of the feat but who can say how much the clone and Radius contributed to it?

I'd also like to point out that was an already severely weakened Galactus who was in a dimensional plain that weakened him either further (yes I know you said he was weak, I'm just reiterating). It was still impressive when Mac pulled a Magento on him but it was a "hero moment" against a weaken Galactus. Glads was even reacting to the attacks of Box, Hercules, Quasar and Vindicator, all of whom he would scarcely bat an eyelid at under normal conditions. *shrugs*

Also I'm not saying that Mac's clone was as strong as Mac himself but I don't think the difference is as much as I felt you were making it out to be. He certainly proved him self capable in his own right and his fight with the real Mac wasn't hopelessly one sided.

Anyway once again I'm not condoning any of this Wolverine vs. Guardian fights and I don't think that the are accurate representations of how a fight between the two of them would happen. I brought them up in the first place because some guy in the thread this first started in (I don't remember which one though) asked if Wolverine had ever fought Alpha Flight to which you replied that Guardian had solo'd Wolverine. I then replied that Wolverine has beaten Guardian more then the opposite and maybe I was a little liberal with the word "beat" but Wolverine does seem to be in control of the fight before they are interrupted. Now I think that Wolverine can pierce Guardian's armor and that if the fight in Uncanny 121 wasn't interrupted he would have put down Mac, it doesn't matter in a forum fight since Mac has no reason to fight Wolverine in melee and whether or not Wolverine can cut him or not should never come into play.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
*shrugs* Mac seemed to think that Radius' force field would reinforce the one that he and Clone Mac had set up to stop the blast. I don't understand forcefield science but Mac is a genius and he got the impression that Radius' power would help him in that situation. Did it? I don't know but he seemed to think that it would. Anyway the nuke feat is hardly the norm and it took three people to pull off; Mac may have been the pillar of the feat but who can say how much the clone and Radius contributed to it?

I'd also like to point out that was an already severely weakened Galactus who was in a dimensional plain that weakened him either further (yes I know you said he was weak, I'm just reiterating). It was still impressive when Mac pulled a Magento on him but it was a "hero moment" against a weaken Galactus. Glads was even reacting to the attacks of Box, Hercules, Quasar and Vindicator, all of whom he would scarcely bat an eyelid at under normal conditions. *shrugs*

Also I'm not saying that Mac's clone was as strong as Mac himself but I don't think the difference is as much as I felt you were making it out to be. He certainly proved him self capable in his own right and his fight with the real Mac wasn't hopelessly one sided.

Anyway once again I'm not condoning any of this Wolverine vs. Guardian fights and I don't think that the are accurate representations of how a fight between the two of them would happen. I brought them up in the first place because some guy in the thread this first started in (I don't remember which one though) asked if Wolverine had ever fought Alpha Flight to which you replied that Guardian had solo'd Wolverine. I then replied that Wolverine has beaten Guardian more then the opposite and maybe I was a little liberal with the word "beat" but Wolverine does seem to be in control of the fight before they are interrupted. Now I think that Wolverine can pierce Guardian's armor and that if the fight in Uncanny 121 wasn't interrupted he would have put down Mac, it doesn't matter in a forum fight since Mac has no reason to fight Wolverine in melee and whether or not Wolverine can cut him or not should never come into play.

Probally not as in the same issue Heather tells Radius to send a forcefield around Gentry and he states that's not how his powers work. The one that made the plan isn't a genius, he was a 19 year old clone not the computer mind of the real Mac who was upgraded so he could battle Galactus. Well Radius powers don't work to protect others, and Mac's clone is stated to be weaker so yeah he would pull off the majority of the feat hands down.

I know even fully described it in the Guardian respect thread, yet the combined might of Sersi, Quasar, Her, Hercules, Windshear, Vindicator II, Vision, Box IV couldn't do what Mac did in just one blast. That's the feat, those uber characters could do nothing, and the man who was in fact "rebuilt" to defeat Galactus did and with one move. Highly impressive. Could he do that to a normal Galactus? hell no.

Actually it is vast, he's 19 doesn't have the experience as his memories were altered and made by Department H and most importantly he isn't a cyborg which is the real reason why Mac is so strong. He's just a teenager in a suit. That's it. When they clashed yeah it was, but anyways cyborg Guardian could have just shut off his suit just like what he did to his wife when she was wearing the E-M suit of her own. Throughout vol.2 Puck constantly attacked his leadership and questioned his judgment even taking command over him

1. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/AlphaFlight92-01.jpg
2. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/AlphaFlight92-02.jpg
3. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/AlphaFlight92-03.jpg
4. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/AlphaFlight92-04.jpg

A person asked how many times did Wolverine fight Wendigo and Alpha Flight and I answered. Then another person implied Wolverine beat ALpha Flight on his own and then I corrected him with how Sasquatch and Guardian have beaten him one on one. That's how it started. Why would it peirce his suit when Mac's attacks have already blocked his claws and blocked stronger attacks? Anyways that's fight as noted my main beef was the comment Wolverine beat Mac.

1. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/uxm140pg10.jpg

edit: well I'm going to bed and I have to work in the morning so I won't be able to get back to you with a reply till tommorow night most likely

Mac can just do this so it really shouldn't even be an argument.

http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magnetoripslogansadamantiumoutqy9.jpg

Originally posted by Grimm22
Hey, nowadays I need as many freinds as I can get You don't bother me...

Does this also mean you and Capt, are going to lay down the hatchet?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Not really, they were still fighting to the best of their ability as noted Despero just altered what was already inside of each of them. Their distrust for each other as at the time the JLA were falling apart. Yes, he should have taken him out....easily. However, Batman has taken down the likes of Grundy, his jobber aura is impressive. Hawkman has gone from being a cowboy in the old West, to an Egyptian pharoah, etc. With his vast experience not many should challenge him hand to hand combat.

Hawkman would win if he uses all his weapons and abilities


Batman wasn't saying anything or doing anything to suggest he was fighting to the best of his ability. Either way if hawkman has all this fighting experience that he draw from then he should have been able to take on batman with talking and playing chess. My point is, is that nobody on this thread has shown me why hawkman is so good. All they have done is point to times where hawkman has gotten his but handed to him. Also the only powers (except flight) people have given are the same as wolverine. Lets see here great fighting ability, enhanced senses, weapons. Am I missing anything. What the crap makes hawkman so great. From what I can see from actual book he street level. now I admit that I don't know much about hawkman I have only three or for books with him in them (CC Identity crisis and superman/batman) so if anyone acutaly has any feats of hawkman and not the "he's just better then wolverine" line that would be great and i would except them. however most people just have a lot of crap their hyping up. Wolverine hate is so high on this forum.

at first i thought hawkman got the majority. However because of all the bias debating without any really reasoning I have changed my mind.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Actually he stated Wolverine could beat Guardian and the reason he lost the first time to Guardian as Mac had all the information on him, while Wolverine had nothing on him.

Wolverine..beating Guardian......

Originally posted by jasofisc
at first i thought hawkman got the majority. However because of all the bias debating without any really reasoning I have changed my mind.

Hawkman wins 7-8/10

With prep he wins 10/10

Originally posted by Grimm22
Hawkman wins 7-8/10

With prep he wins 10/10


see what i'm saying no reasoning at all

Originally posted by jasofisc
see what i'm saying no reasoning at all

Reasoning?

Hawkman is Wolverine's superior in nearly everyway

He's smarter, stronger, faster, tougher, more experience, more skills, ect..

And with prep, he gets his best weapons and destroys Wolverine

there are a lot of guy who can match wolverine or even beat him in more matches then he can beat them, such as batman, daredevil, black panther, slade, deadpool. I just don't see how hawkman is really better then them. I've seen nothing that would suggest (feat wise) that he is stronger, faster, better fighting abilities, that his weapons are better.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Reasoning?

Hawkman is Wolverine's superior in nearly everyway

He's smarter, stronger, faster, tougher, more experience, more skills, ect..

And with prep, he gets his best weapons and destroys Wolverine


what ever you have no idea of what your taking about do you. the only feats you have suggested is hawkman getting beat by batman. That not exactly a feat.

how is he smarter stronger faster tougher, or more skilled

Originally posted by jasofisc
what ever you have no idea of what your taking about do you. the only feats you have suggested is hawkman getting beat by batman. That not exactly a feat.

Hawkman has been around since the days of Ancient Eygpt

He has THOUSANDS of years of experience and skills

His strength is class 5 or 10 and he has superhuman senses

Not to mention he has his regular equiptment here which is more than enough to take Wolverine

That enough for ya?

Originally posted by Grimm22
Hawkman has been around since the days of Ancient Eygpt

He has THOUSANDS of years of experience and skills

His strength is class 5 or 10 and he has superhuman senses

Not to mention he has his regular equiptment here which is more than enough to take Wolverine

That enough for ya?


no because you have no incidences of him being 5 to 10 strength class or that his superhuman senses are better then wolverine's or that his regular equipment is enough to take wolverine. All when has his "THOUSANDS" of years of experience and skill helped him?

your just saying things

Yet another person who now thinks Grimm drinks before signing in on KMC.

Originally posted by jasofisc
Batman wasn't saying anything or doing anything to suggest he was fighting to the best of his ability. Either way if hawkman has all this fighting experience that he draw from then he should have been able to take on batman with talking and playing chess. My point is, is that nobody on this thread has shown me why hawkman is so good. All they have done is point to times where hawkman has gotten his but handed to him. Also the only powers (except flight) people have given are the same as wolverine. Lets see here great fighting ability, enhanced senses, weapons. Am I missing anything. What the crap makes hawkman so great. From what I can see from actual book he street level. now I admit that I don't know much about hawkman I have only three or for books with him in them (CC Identity crisis and superman/batman) so if anyone acutaly has any feats of hawkman and not the "he's just better then wolverine" line that would be great and i would except them. however most people just have a lot of crap their hyping up. Wolverine hate is so high on this forum.

So Batman is known to be a talker in battles? hardly. Just because he doesn't say anything doesn't prove he wasn't. Not really all his advantages were neutralized and he was just fighting and even holding Aquaman in battle and then Carter tried to talk sense into Batman. People have mentioned times he got beat when it wasn't even him fully unleashed. A simple feat that is shown is the claw of Horus even knocked out Superman with one blow. A full list of what he can do and what he has done can be read in the bios I have posted below.

No, I do hate Wolverine. However, if Hawkman has all his weapons there isn't much Wolverine could do to him. Explain to me what Wolveine could do to Hawkman?

If you don't know anything about Hawkman do some research:
1. http://www.dcuguide.com/who.php?name=hawkman
2. http://www.dcuguide.com/who.php?name=hawkman2prehw
3. http://www.dcuguide.com/who.php?name=hawkman3
4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawkman
5. http://www.geocities.com/seanmacdonald_2000/hawk.html
6. http://www.answers.com/main/ntq-tname-hawkman-fts_start-
7. http://members.fortunecity.com/mjstauffer/Characters/Members/HawkmanIII.htm

Logan goes down hard.

Golden Age Hawkman feats:

JLA #30 (vol.1)-Hawkman beats Johnny Quick by knocking him out with a punch after a brief battle where they went move for move creating vortexes and Hawkman outsmarted Quick.

JLA #38 (vol.1)-Hawkman beats an evil Martian Manhunter by causing sparks sliding down a wall igniting oily rags sending MM into a blaze

Originally posted by King_Mungi
So Batman is known to be a talker in battles? hardly. Just because he doesn't say anything doesn't prove he wasn't. Not really all his advantages were neutralized and he was just fighting and even holding Aquaman in battle and then Carter tried to talk sense into Batman. People have mentioned times he got beat when it wasn't even him fully unleashed. A simple feat that is shown is the claw of Horus even knocked out Superman with one blow. A full list of what he can do and what he has done can be read in the bios I have posted below.

No, I do hate Wolverine. However, if Hawkman has all his weapons there isn't much Wolverine could do to him. Explain to me what Wolveine could do to Hawkman?

If you don't know anything about Hawkman do some research:
1. http://www.dcuguide.com/who.php?name=hawkman
2. http://www.dcuguide.com/who.php?name=hawkman2prehw
3. http://www.dcuguide.com/who.php?name=hawkman3
4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawkman
5. http://www.geocities.com/seanmacdonald_2000/hawk.html
6. http://www.answers.com/main/ntq-tname-hawkman-fts_start-
7. http://members.fortunecity.com/mjstauffer/Characters/Members/HawkmanIII.htm


I already looked at the dc bio and the wikipeda one

wolverine could cut hawkman in half he doesn't have good durablity

batman wasn't talking at all not when he was battleing or anything. which makes me think he wasn't thinking as well as he normally does. furthermore he didn't use any weapons on hawkman.

this fight is without the claw of horus



golden age feats are weird are you trying to say that hawkman beating a speedster isn't PIS. I think your stretching

also has hawkman used the claw of Horus since or before the fight with superman.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Golden Age Hawkman feats:

JLA #30 (vol.1)-Hawkman beats Johnny Quick by knocking him out with a punch after a brief battle where they went move for move creating vortexes and Hawkman outsmarted Quick.

JLA #38 (vol.1)-Hawkman beats an evil Martian Manhunter by causing sparks sliding down a wall igniting oily rags sending MM into a blaze


PIS feats don't count

Hawkman is now as fast as a speedster this is as bad as wolvergod crap. if people used all of wolverine's feats they could make him beat superman with the kind of logic your using.

thanks for the sites though they are appreashated

Originally posted by jasofisc
I already looked at the dc bio and the wikipeda one

wolverine could cut hawkman in half he doesn't have good durablity

batman wasn't talking at all not when he was battleing or anything. which makes me think he wasn't thinking as well as he normally does. furthermore he didn't use any weapons on hawkman.

this fight is without the claw of horus

golden age feats are weird are you trying to say that hawkman beating a speedster isn't PIS. I think your stretching

I didn't post the DC website one, view them all as there have been many incarnations of Hawkman and each talk about the threats he battles.

Catching Hawkman is one thing, if Hawkman can beat and keep up with Jessie Quick he really shouldn't have to worry. Plus Hawkman has even shown to go mach speeds one time or another.

He never ever talks when he is in battle, unless he wants to prove a point. What weapons would work as he has a healing factor and as stated Carter merely laughs at anything less than third-degree burns. He nearly had his arm sliced off and healed completly in moments.

Notice I said all weapons in general.

It actually was pretty good fight, and why is it PIS? He actually used his smarts to beat him, which with his experience makes sense.

Originally posted by jasofisc
PIS feats don't count

Hawkman is now as fast as a speedster this is as bad as wolvergod crap. if people used all of wolverine's feats they could make him beat superman with the kind of logic your using.

Except he has kept up with speedsters in the past, even Flash during his first introduction. So basically any feats he has done you shall discredit them as he has done it countless times. Basically you claimed he is just street level, but he has beaten the top dogs.

Originally posted by jasofisc
also has hawkman used the claw of Horus since or before the fight with superman.

Yes he used it afterwards again

well all you show is golden age feats where using current hawkman with out the claw. Again is he is as good as a fighter as everyone says he should have been able to take out batman with out weapons (batman didn't use weapons).


also your saying that hawkman is as fast as a speedster so really he's top tier level. so was it extream PIS when he fought batman because hawkman has thousands of years experience?

it's not that i'm discrediting feats it's that they don't appear anywhere currently that you have shown. I won't discredit any current feats. but golden age is a little iffy

that's like when their is a thread with superman and people just use pre-crisis just because the thread starter didn't say it was current

were using the current hawkman so i want current feats.


on another note thanks for the info about the claw of horus