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no phoenix. Who takes this?

Going against continuity Wonder woman wins.

I think if telekinesis can go through her shield, a telekinetic explosion in her brain will kill her.

What shield? Whattya ya talking about?

when WW puts her braclets she forms a force field that cannot be penetrated by almost anything

Oh. That shield. No. Jean Grey's TK cannot go through her forcefield. Multiple Skyfathers tried and failed.

And its not like she needs to do it anyway. Speedblitz before Jean can form a coherent thought. Not to mention Diana is practically immune to telepathy anyway.

what comic did multiple sky fathers try to get through her force field?

does anyone know what comics jean gray had powers that she reformed emma frost after being shattered in her diomand form?

Originally posted by Mider
what comic did multiple sky fathers try to get through her force field? Wonder Woman #21
Originally posted by Mider
does anyone know what comics jean gray had powers that she reformed emma frost after being shattered in her diomand form? New X-Men

Oh Please...This is another easy one....Wonder Woman takes this one EASILY......Sure Jean could get into her brain....IF SHE HAS TIME TO...but remember Wonder Woman is FASTER THAN MERCURY AND HERMES...and they're GODS!!!! She moves near lightspeed and by the time Jean has time to begin to do anything, *BAM* it's over....one punch (or one pinky is more like it) is all it's going to take people....when you got the strength and speed of a god, it doesn't matter what kind of mind powers you have....half a second and WW's already knocked out Jean before she has time to do anything mentally!!!!! Wonder Woman for the win!!!!!

If the fight started with Jean's shield up Jean will win. Jean can telekinetically freeze the whole area stopping or at least slowing WW down. Even when moving at around the speed of sound you can still see her and telekinesis reacts faster than your hands and limbs especially if they are far apart. Once that happens, like what has been posted, a telekinetic explosion in her brain kills WW.

Originally posted by ixie
If the fight started with Jean's shield up Jean will win. Jean can telekinetically freeze the whole area stopping or at least slowing WW down. Even when moving at around the speed of sound you can still see her and telekinesis reacts faster than your hands and limbs especially if they are far apart. Once that happens, like what has been posted, a telekinetic explosion in her brain kills WW.

You can't see something moving at the speed of sound....

A BULLET from a handgun doesn't move at the speed of sound. Can you see the bullet and dodge it?

And Diana's considerably faster than sound.

Jean Grey has tried TK-locking persons like She-Hulk or Rogue. They've broken free.

If shields are up before the battle...WW blunders them down and breaks her neck.

Jean mentioned before to Juggernaut that she has more than enough TK power to hold him in place. That was way before the Omega thing started. It was during Onslaught.

Jean Grey

Originally posted by coosie
Jean mentioned before to Juggernaut that she has more than enough TK power to hold him in place. That was way before the Omega thing started. It was during Onslaught.
Jean has showings all over the place. That's why I hate her when it comes to forum battles.

Originally posted by coosie
Jean mentioned before to Juggernaut that she has more than enough TK power to hold him in place. That was way before the Omega thing started. It was during Onslaught.

And he broke free with a twitch of his arms. He wasn't exactly sublight speedblitzing, now was he?

I'm going with Jean Grey...

Yeah. Big Surprise. *looks at avatar*

actually a bullet travels much much faster than the speed of sound, an average bullet travels at 800 metres/second while cound travels at 330 metres/second. and many fighter aircrafts travel above the speed of sound regularly and u can see them because they are large enough, the bullet is small and at close quarters, thas why it is nearly impossible to see.

Yeah, it's just that WW is multiple times faster then speed of sound. So fast that Jean Grey won't able to react to it.

Speedblitz pwns.

WW due to speedblitz................................take away speed and JG....................however SB 4 the win WW.

Would Wonder Woman's tiera be able to go through Jean's force fields? It seemed to go through Superman's aura pretty easily.

Yes but JG could stop the tierra's movement essentially same with the lasso etc etc

Wasn't Supes unable to get through Jean's TK field in a crossover?

Crossovers aren't canon.

Originally posted by soleran30
Yes but JG could stop the tierra's movement essentially same with the lasso etc etc

When thrown by someone with strength enough to lift tankers, the tiara would move with speeds of Mach 50 or something. Jean wouldn't have time to slow it.

Unless she emits her energy in a field around her to slow everything around her before the effort ism ade to throw the lasso Anyway at mach50 the sound barrier being broken that fast would probably knock her off her feet

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Crossovers aren't canon.
I know crossovers aren't canon. Neither are What Ifs, etc. That wasn't my question. When Superman and Jean fought, was he able to get through her shield?

If Jean telekinetically freezes the whole area around them both, WW's attacks will be slowed down. And because Jean now has super sensitive telekinetic sensitivity, she can feel everything through telekinesis. She doesn't need to see things, she can fight with her eyes closed. And it only takes a millisecond for Jean to make a kill. WW can't do anything, she loses if she enters the field, and no one wins if she doesn't.

You must not understand how many times faster then a thought Wonder Woman is. Like fifty times. Before Jean could react, or even think about doing anything, Wonder Woman would have decapitated her.

Outside Jean's telekinetic freeze field she is, but inside it she's not. And despero defeated her and nearly killed her before by encasing her inside a solid box, filling her throat and lungs with his forcefield. Of course Jean can do the same only better and faster. WW can be taken down by others that don't have super speed. And I think Supes wasn't able to get past her shields in their fight.

Originally posted by coosie
Outside Jean's telekinetic freeze field she is, but inside it she's not. And despero defeated her and nearly killed her before by encasing her inside a solid box, filling her throat and lungs with his forcefield. Of course Jean can do the same only better and faster. WW can be taken down by others that don't have super speed. And I think Supes wasn't able to get past her shields in their fight.


I think that the Flame of Py'tar gave Despero enhansed speed as well as strength and toughness, not sure though.

The main problem I see with Jean is tracking WW. If she starts with her sheild up (and she'd have to if she wants to live for more than a second) then she will have to keep it up the entire fight and at a high enough level to protect her from a hell of a lot of Superman-level attacks. Now I know that Jean is a very strong mutant, but I just don't see her keeping that strong of a shield up and still tracking Wonder Woman as to mount any type of offensive attack. Eventually she will get tired from the strain and WW will take her out, IMO.

Originally posted by coosie
Outside Jean's telekinetic freeze field she is, but inside it she's not. And despero defeated her and nearly killed her before by encasing her inside a solid box, filling her throat and lungs with his forcefield. Of course Jean can do the same only better and faster. WW can be taken down by others that don't have super speed. And I think Supes wasn't able to get past her shields in their fight.

It's just that she needs a thought to make the telekinetic field. And Wonder Woman is faster then thought.

This is also assuming that WW can locate JG in the first place. That's to say what's stopping JG from masking herself totally or creating a totally false identity that others are unable to detect.

Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
This is also assuming that WW can locate JG in the first place. That's to say what's stopping JG from masking herself totally or creating a totally false identity that others are unable to detect.
Eyes of Pallas enable WW to see the truth. Being the Goddess of Truth does have some advantages outside of the title.

I think the speed of WW isn't going to be a factor. Once she's inside Jean's tk field it's gonna be like moving you moving under water. Jean can do anything that is connected to telekinesis and telepathy since she is an omega level. Plus she can control WW's lasso by wrapping it in a telekinetic shield and moving it around.

Originally posted by Draco69
And he broke free with a twitch of his arms. He wasn't exactly sublight speedblitzing, now was he?
I'm not sure that's what happend. Jean said to Jugs that she has more than enough telekinetic power to hold him in place then she wrapped Jugs in a telekinetic chain but she sensed that Jugs wasn't struggling so she removed it.

Originally posted by coosie
Outside Jean's telekinetic freeze field she is, but inside it she's not. And despero defeated her and nearly killed her before by encasing her inside a solid box, filling her throat and lungs with his forcefield. Of course Jean can do the same only better and faster. WW can be taken down by others that don't have super speed. And I think Supes wasn't able to get past her shields in their fight.
I was wrong. It was Sinestro not Despero who beat WW and nearly killed her by encasing her inside a box and drowned her in force field. Jean can do the same.

Originally posted by coosie
I was wrong. It was Sinestro not Despero who beat WW and nearly killed her by encasing her inside a box and drowned her in force field. Jean can do the same.


There's a HUGE differance between a GREEN LANTERN and Jean Grey. The ring has automatic defenses that allow him faster than light reflexes. Which Jean does not have.

Originally posted by ixie
I think the speed of WW isn't going to be a factor. Once she's inside Jean's tk field it's gonna be like moving you moving under water. Jean can do anything that is connected to telekinesis and telepathy since she is an omega level. Plus she can control WW's lasso by wrapping it in a telekinetic shield and moving it around.

Honey, you don't understand the concept of speedblitz. Jean would have her neck broken before she can process a single thought. BEFORE she can raise a shield....

There's no if, ands or buts about it. Jean needs to think to raise a forcefield. Before the electronic signal in her brain reaches the flipping neuron, WW is already pummeling her into a bloody paste.

How about not. Of course the fight will start with Jean's shields up. And there's that tk field thing that's entirely different from tk shield. It's gonna be like swiming in a material as strong or stronger than steel with a 1/4 mile diameter. WW has to pass through those things first before reaching Jean.

ok if WW didnt have her super speed and Jean didnt have her force field how would the battle go?

Jean. Theres that exploding brain thing.

Originally posted by Mider
ok if WW didnt have her super speed and Jean didnt have her force field how would the battle go?

Jean still dies horribly.

Originally posted by ixie
Jean. Theres that exploding brain thing.

Which won't work on Wonder Woman, with her being immune to telepathy and all, if you've been reading the thread.

Telekinesis is used to explode brains. WW isn't immune to that. At least WW dies a painless death.

Originally posted by ixie
Telekinesis is used to explode brains. WW isn't immune to that. At least WW dies a painless death.

I'm not convinced that would work either. Her insides are as tough as her outsides.

Originally posted by ixie
How about not. Of course the fight will start with Jean's shields up. And there's that tk field thing that's entirely different from tk shield. It's gonna be like swiming in a material as strong or stronger than steel with a 1/4 mile diameter. WW has to pass through those things first before reaching Jean.

That would include prep. This a no prep battle. Having a forcefield up BEFORE the battle begins is prep.

Besides the forcefield would go down faster than you can say "uno"

You're assuming that Jean will SOMEHOW manage to put up shield, use her TK to make a statis field that will slow her down (which it won't "stronger than steel?" Diana uses steel as dental floss.) telepathically track her AND somehow put a TK field in her brain....ALL before a sublight speed opponent breaks her neck.

Let's do a simple test. Yes or no answer.

We have laser gun that fires a lightspeed beam. The beam is fired at the start of the battle. Can Jean somehow do all the things you mentioned before the beam goes through her head? No. Her reflexes simply aren't that fast.

Originally posted by Draco69
There's a HUGE differance between a GREEN LANTERN and Jean Grey. The ring has automatic defenses that allow him faster than light reflexes. Which Jean does not have.
Except that it was not an automatic defense that beat WW, it was an attack move that caught her.

Originally posted by Draco69
That would include prep. This a no prep battle. Having a forcefield up BEFORE the battle begins is prep.

Besides the forcefield would go down faster than you can say "uno"

You're assuming that Jean will SOMEHOW manage to put up shield, use her TK to make a statis field that will slow her down (which it won't "stronger than steel?" Diana uses steel as dental floss.) telepathically track her AND somehow put a TK field in her brain....ALL before a sublight speed opponent breaks her neck.

Let's do a simple test. Yes or no answer.

We have laser gun that fires a lightspeed beam. The beam is fired at the start of the battle. Can Jean somehow do all the things you mentioned before the beam goes through her head? No. Her reflexes simply aren't that fast.


Who said this is a no prep fight? Of course Jean should have a shield and/or field on. You don't know how strong Jean's shields are and you're assuming that WW can break everyones force fields.

You're giving WW way too much credit. If i remember correctly, in that mentioned fight against Sinestro, WW used all her strength just to support half a bridge. Sure it was about aroung a hundred tons but she could only keep it up for a few seconds/minutes and it wasn't even the whole bridge. And WW is nowhere near near lightspeed.

Originally posted by Draco69
I'm not convinced that would work either. Her insides are as tough as her outsides.
I can't even imagine Superman surviving a hand granade exploding in his brain and Jean can create telekinetic explosions far, far stronger than a hand granade's. Plus she can do multiple explosions up to who knows how many per second. Or she can suffocate her with her force field like what invisible woman does.

Supes is invulnerable inside as well. He would survive a hand grenade in his brain with no harm.

"Yeah. Big Surprise. *looks at avatar*"

LoL...and it's sooo not obivious that looking at youre posts that you aren't a supporter/ fan of DC?! ...OKAY...

I forgot who the person was, but she screamed at Superman's head, which was stated to be equal to 10 nuclear bombs going off in his head. Superman's insides are pretty much as invulnerable as his skin is.

Originally posted by ixie
I can't even imagine Superman surviving a hand granade exploding in his brain and Jean can create telekinetic explosions far, far stronger than a hand granade's. Plus she can do multiple explosions up to who knows how many per second. Or she can suffocate her with her force field like what invisible woman does.

Really? Then you don't know Superman. The guy can take nukes, and his insides are every bit as tough as his outside. There's a forcefield protecting his cells. A grenade would hardly do anything inside his head.

WW will be able to take Jean's head off before she can suffocate her. All it takes is getting 1 finger on JG and it's over.

I always thought the force feild only protected his outside of his body and some of his insides like his lungs and such. Oh well I guess I was wrong. anyways WW doesn't need to speed bliz Jean to win. If WW doesn't speed bliz Jean then we will actualy have a fight, Jean's shields can take a whole lot of punishment. But I do see WW eventualy geting though them.

Originally posted by Draco69
That would include prep. This a no prep battle. Having a forcefield up BEFORE the battle begins is prep.

Besides the forcefield would go down faster than you can say "uno"

You're assuming that Jean will SOMEHOW manage to put up shield, use her TK to make a statis field that will slow her down (which it won't "stronger than steel?" Diana uses steel as dental floss.) telepathically track her AND somehow put a TK field in her brain....ALL before a sublight speed opponent breaks her neck.

Let's do a simple test. Yes or no answer.

We have laser gun that fires a lightspeed beam. The beam is fired at the start of the battle. Can Jean somehow do all the things you mentioned before the beam goes through her head? No. Her reflexes simply aren't that fast.




Whoah, u guys really are giving WW too much credit....obviously you all haven't been reading...WW is not nearly as fast as you all say she is, LOL, but i guess you're just that big of a fan, but to correct you, WW is not faster than thought, she is only fast asz the speed of light at her maximum, and it kills her energy....dont believe me, go research it for yourself....i'm not tryna knock her off but you all are giving her way too much credit, jean has a limitless not limited but LIMITLESS power of TK, and she could take WW and control her movements with a thought.

Originally posted by sese4lyfe
Whoah, u guys really are giving WW too much credit....obviously you all haven't been reading...WW is not nearly as fast as you all say she is, LOL, but i guess you're just that big of a fan, but to correct you, WW is not faster than thought, she is only fast asz the speed of light at her maximum, and it kills her energy....dont believe me, go research it for yourself....i'm not tryna knock her off but you all are giving her way too much credit, jean has a limitless not limited but LIMITLESS power of TK, and she could take WW and control her movements with a thought.

Actually, Diana is listed in JLA as being one of the people on the team who *can* move faster than the speed of thought; sublight speeds are orders of magnitude faster than thought. Merely moving as "conventional" super-sonic speeds in combat (which she can easily do) is much faster than thought.

As far as TK power vs. strength: Jean's feats are all over the place. As mentioned four years ago, Rogue, She-Hulk, and Juggs have all broken free of her control, and Diana is much stronger than the former two. WW has broken through powerful forcefields, a la' several Green Lanterns and Sinestro, with one blow via sheer brute strength. Her durability/resistance as demonstrated over the past decade makes an instant TK brain kill unlikely (damaging, certainly, and painful, but not enough to take her down; in the early 90's, well before several of Diana's upgrades, she took two bullets through a portion of her brain and survived -- her durability now is much greater, and especially against kinetic assaults, of which she is nearly as resistant as Superman.) Ironically, Jean's better chances (assuming she isn't taken down at the start) is to attempt to TK manipulate any powerful electrical sources in the area and try to shock WW from behind -- not a certain situation/technique, by any means, but one that would be much more effective than Jean using the attacks listed previously. Also, while WW's speed is considerable, Jean's other bit of leeway is that Diana isn't likely to speed blitz on the get-go, unless having reason to think it necessary; if Jean starts doing serious damage, then WW will speed/strength blitz her, so Jean has to be *very* clever/careful to eke out the few wins she would get. WW 7-8/10.

Originally posted by sese4lyfe
Whoah, u guys really are giving WW too much credit....obviously you all haven't been reading...WW is not nearly as fast as you all say she is, LOL, but i guess you're just that big of a fan, but to correct you, WW is not faster than thought, she is only fast asz the speed of light at her maximum, and it kills her energy....dont believe me, go research it for yourself....i'm not tryna knock her off but you all are giving her way too much credit, jean has a limitless not limited but LIMITLESS power of TK, and she could take WW and control her movements with a thought.

To Educate you my friend the speed of ''thought'' (as you said) is about 300km/hour and the speed of light is 300000km/sec so i suppose now you understand the difference!!!

Originally posted by kochtgr
To Educate you my friend the speed of ''thought'' (as you said) is about 300km/hour and the speed of light is 300000km/sec so i suppose now you understand the difference!!!

I didn't want to get technical in my response, but thanks for showing the math in the "orders of magnitude" department.

Taking Phoenix Force away makes Jean way out of WW's league. Diana should be able to handle most mutants. With telepathy out of the picture Telekinesis just makes her a shell to brake. Oh yeah and thought speed being 300 k an hour is awfully slow don't you think?

A mutants brain are hardwired differently, especially psi mutants. Human standards do not necessarily apply to Jean. Otherwise her speed of thought would be to slow, to pluck bullets after being fired.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Taking Phoenix Force away makes Jean way out of WW's league. Diana should be able to handle most mutants. With telepathy out of the picture Telekinesis just makes her a shell to brake. Oh yeah and thought speed being 300 k an hour is awfully slow don't you think?


Most people believe that the speed of ''thought'' is ultra fast but the reality is that it takes time for the electricity generated from the brain to pass through the nerves (speaking for humans always)
And even if mutants brain are hardwired differently i dont think that they can match even 1/1000 the speed of light

Originally posted by kochtgr
Most people believe that the speed of ''thought'' is ultra fast but the reality is that it takes time for the electricity generated from the brain to pass through the nerves (speaking for humans always)
And even if mutants brain are hardwired differently i dont think that they can match even 1/1000 the speed of light

There's a difference between reaction speed and the conception of a thought.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=3774&pg=1

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
There's a difference between reaction speed and the conception of a thought.


In reality there is no difference between reaction time and the concertion of a thought (the only difference is that in reaction time you think mechanicaly because you have gone through the same process many times so the speed is as close as possible to 300/hour, while in the conception of though you have to analyse the information you are getting something that takes much more time than to just react "whatever is written in a comic"

Originally posted by kochtgr
In reality there is no difference between reaction time and the concertion of a thought (the only difference is that in reaction time you think mechanicaly because you have gone through the same process many times so the speed is as close as possible to 300/hour, while in the conception of though you have to analyse the information you are getting something that takes much more time than to just react "whatever is written in a comic"

There is a difference. Movement requires chemical and electrical signals. Sitting like a vegetable conceiving a thought is spontaneous there's no quantafiable speed. This would work both ways for Diana and Jean but psi is thought and action in unison. I'm not saying Jean wins because Diana is immune to telepathy and I don't see Jeans shield holding but just want to throw that scan out there.

Wasn't it also stated in a Flash comic that he isn't faster then thought?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak

Wasn't it also stated in a Flash comic that he isn't faster then thought?

No way, he's without a doubt faster than thought. He sometimes avoids Grodd's mind control by moving fast enough that the telepathic impulses aren't fast enough to have an effect, and there was a JLA where to attack some telepaths they did a rush with all the members who could move faster than thought: Flash, Wonder Woman, Superman, and J'onn.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
There is a difference. Movement requires chemical and electrical signals. Sitting like a vegetable conceiving a thought is spontaneous there's no quantafiable speed. This would work both ways for Diana and Jean but psi is thought and action in unison. I'm not saying Jean wins because Diana is immune to telepathy and I don't see Jeans shield holding but just want to throw that scan out there.

Wasn't it also stated in a Flash comic that he isn't faster then thought?


When I am talking about reaction time i mean only the process of thinking not of moving a hand or a leg or whatever which of course takes much more time and thinking its certainly not spontaneous because it requires chemicals and electrical signals to be created first which is a team work of each part of the brain (every part needs to communicate to each other) and then export the outcome of this process, and i am not counting that you must first import the information from the environment!!!

ps: You should first use common sense and not take for serious whatever is written in a "comic"

Originally posted by kochtgr
When I am talking about reaction time i mean only the process of thinking not of moving a hand or a leg or whatever which of course takes much more time and thinking its certainly not spontaneous because it requires chemicals and electrical signals to be created first which is a team work of each part of the brain (every part needs to communicate to each other) and then export the outcome of this process, and i am not counting that you must first import the information from the environment!!!

ps: You should first use common sense and not take for serious whatever is written in a "comic"

Different parts of the brain are responsible for different actions it depends entirely on the action whether or not your brain needs to work in tandem with one another. It's why certain brain damaged or drunk people can still function.

You're talking about processing which is the ability to pull information together, initiating a thought is quite an abstract concept and not really calculable.

Analyzing is moot since they're both aware that they're in a fight and if you're telling me that the electric signals in Diana's brain is faster then the electric signals in Jeans brain then I really don't what to say to that. I think I've only seen that stated in the case of Flash (Speedforce) and Kid Omega.

As for comics seeing how telepaths don't require a body to think your argument is moot here.

Originally posted by Q99
No way, he's without a doubt faster than thought. He sometimes avoids Grodd's mind control by moving fast enough that the telepathic impulses aren't fast enough to have an effect, and there was a JLA where to attack some telepaths they did a rush with all the members who could move faster than thought: Flash, Wonder Woman, Superman, and J'onn.

I still remember seeing it being stated.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak

I still remember seeing it being stated.


Well it's been directly contradicted in both word and example, so if you're not remembering it wrong, it's still overridden.

Originally posted by kochtgr
When I am talking about reaction time i mean only the process of thinking not of moving a hand or a leg or whatever which of course takes much more time and thinking its certainly not spontaneous because it requires chemicals and electrical signals to be created first which is a team work of each part of the brain (every part needs to communicate to each other) and then export the outcome of this process, and i am not counting that you must first import the information from the environment!!!

ps: You should first use common sense and not take for serious whatever is written in a "comic"

I think we should take what is written on comics over what common sense tells us about real world speed of thought because the laws governing the fictional universes are impossible in real life.

The speedsters obsviouslly think and move faster than average humans can react to, but marvel's telepaths also think and use their powers much faster than normal humans. Quentin Quire generated and organized his thoughts at the rate of 10 million per second, emma frost, jean and chuck have made several refencers to subliminal time in which hours worth of telepathic application of power transpire in under a second. That scan also supports the superspeed of thought in marvel. I am unaware of any equivalent concept in DC

That said WW is still probably too fast for jean and almost immune to telepathy, so she wins hands down. Phoenix on the other hand would stomp her.

edit

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Different parts of the brain are responsible for different actions it depends entirely on the action whether or not your brain needs to work in tandem with one another. It's why certain brain damaged or drunk people can still function.

You're talking about processing which is the ability to pull information together, initiating a thought is quite an abstract concept and not really calculable.

Analyzing is moot since they're both aware that they're in a fight and if you're telling me that the electric signals in Diana's brain is faster then the electric signals in Jeans brain then I really don't what to say to that. I think I've only seen that stated in the case of Flash (Speedforce) and Kid Omega.

As for comics seeing how telepaths don't require a body to think your argument is moot here.



I still remember seeing it being stated.

1)First for every action a group of parts of the brain work together never something alone and if you take it further every cell of the brain needs to communicate with the others.

2) I am not talking about processing but for the process of thinking which includes everything you can think about.

3)even if somehow Jean manage to sent telepathetically signals to control Dianas mind while Diana goes to attack Jean, Diana can not stop herself in time, Before landing her hand on Jeans Head and stops any telepathical ability spondaneous after that.

4)I dont understant what you mean by saying that telepaths dont require a body cause every ability that they have comes from their brain even the ability to project themselves somewhere else comes from their body and if its destroyed they simple die!

Wonder Woman for the majority.

Originally posted by kochtgr
1)First for every action a group of parts of the brain work together never something alone and if you take it further every cell of the brain needs to communicate with the others.

Untrue it depends on the action it's why people with damaged brain tissue can still carry out mundane functions. It's also why intoxicated people can still carry out certain functions.



You're missing the point the process of thinking involves initiating and that is an abstract concept it's impossible to quantify. Sure you can measure the speed of neural activity but that doesn't encompass thought in it's entirety. It's not exactly a physical concept.



First Diana is apparently immune so again I'm not saying WW loses I'm pointing out that the whole speedblitz thing is sketchy.



Emma Frost and Shadow King are examples of having their minds severed from their bodies and still being able to think.

Emma has also had her body shattered into millions of pieces and her conciousness was still there.

Originally posted by tideoftime
Actually, Diana is listed in JLA as being one of the people on the team who *can* move faster than the speed of thought; sublight speeds are orders of magnitude faster than thought. Merely moving as "conventional" super-sonic speeds in combat (which she can easily do) is much faster than thought.

As far as TK power vs. strength: Jean's feats are all over the place. As mentioned four years ago, Rogue, She-Hulk, and Juggs have all broken free of her control, and Diana is much stronger than the former two. WW has broken through powerful forcefields, a la' several Green Lanterns and Sinestro, with one blow via sheer brute strength. Her durability/resistance as demonstrated over the past decade makes an instant TK brain kill unlikely (damaging, certainly, and painful, but not enough to take her down; in the early 90's, well before several of Diana's upgrades, she took two bullets through a portion of her brain and survived -- her durability now is much greater, and especially against kinetic assaults, of which she is nearly as resistant as Superman.) Ironically, Jean's better chances (assuming she isn't taken down at the start) is to attempt to TK manipulate any powerful electrical sources in the area and try to shock WW from behind -- not a certain situation/technique, by any means, but one that would be much more effective than Jean using the attacks listed previously. Also, while WW's speed is considerable, Jean's other bit of leeway is that Diana isn't likely to speed blitz on the get-go, unless having reason to think it necessary; if Jean starts doing serious damage, then WW will speed/strength blitz her, so Jean has to be *very* clever/careful to eke out the few wins she would get. WW 7-8/10.


u guys say that wonder woman can break through JG force field....but if supes couldnt break through it, what on earth makes you think that WW can....explain that to me and I'll leave it alone.

if diana makes a move before jean its over. if not jean can mid rape diana

Originally posted by sese4lyfe
u guys say that wonder woman can break through JG force field....but if supes couldnt break through it, what on earth makes you think that WW can....explain that to me and I'll leave it alone.

OH yeah, WW strength is only limited....could barley lift half of a bridge.

Originally posted by Draco69
I'm not convinced that would work either. Her insides are as tough as her outsides.
If that's true you've just ruined every sexual fantasy I've ever had involving Wonder Woman.

WW is soft and doughy. her durability is only suppose to increase in conjunction with her powers.

anyways... Jean is a putz.... WW ftw...

Originally posted by sese4lyfe
OH yeah, WW strength is only limited....could barley lift half of a bridge.

She's also lifted city-sized chunks of falling stuff and helped move the moon.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Different parts of the brain are responsible for different actions it depends entirely on the action whether or not your brain needs to work in tandem with one another. It's why certain brain damaged or drunk people can still function.

You're talking about processing which is the ability to pull information together, initiating a thought is quite an abstract concept and not really calculable.

Analyzing is moot since they're both aware that they're in a fight and if you're telling me that the electric signals in Diana's brain is faster then the electric signals in Jeans brain then I really don't what to say to that. I think I've only seen that stated in the case of Flash (Speedforce) and Kid Omega.

As for comics seeing how telepaths don't require a body to think your argument is moot here.



I still remember seeing it being stated.

yes you really do need to use common sense, no one could move faster than they think, it's just not possible, you have to think about anything before you take action, common sense is good to have

Originally posted by Q99
She's also lifted city-sized chunks of falling stuff and helped move the moon.

if she moved the moon, why couldnt she barely hold up half of a bridge, and she only held it up for a couple of seconds

Originally posted by sese4lyfe
if she moved the moon, why couldnt she barely hold up half of a bridge, and she only held it up for a couple of seconds

It's called a low showing. Characters are held to their optimal levels of skill, power, durability, etc as per forum rules.

Originally posted by kochtgr
When I am talking about reaction time i mean only the process of thinking not of moving a hand or a leg or whatever which of course takes much more time and thinking its certainly not spontaneous because it requires chemicals and electrical signals to be created first which is a team work of each part of the brain (every part needs to communicate to each other) and then export the outcome of this process, and i am not counting that you must first import the information from the environment!!!

ps: You should first use common sense and not take for serious whatever is written in a "comic"

so you are basically saying WW moves faster than she thinks....I just dont get it

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's called a low showing. Characters are held to their optimal levels of skill, power, durability, etc as per forum rules.

there is no way diana is strong enough to move the moon, you are over estimating her a little bit too much, like seriously

Originally posted by sese4lyfe
there is no way diana is strong enough to move the moon, you are over estimating her a little bit too much, like seriously

She has massive strength feats which eclipse that bridge showing - a showing most use if only to lowball her. She's considered to be one of the strongest physical heroes on DC Earth (with Superman, CM, and MM respectively). Regardless of whether or not you think she can move the moon, her strength >>>> that single low bridge showing.

we should only use her own single lifting feat showings, since team efforts cannot be adequately measured and distributed among the characters

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
we should only use her own single lifting feat showings since team efforts cannot be adequately measured and distributed among the characters

Agreed.

And her single lifting feats she has under her belt are better than that bridge one.

the heavenly chariot that she slowed down?

i am not aware of her single lifting feats.

In RE: Diana and the bridge

People have to remember that this was during Byrne's tenure, and while he high-balled her into divinity (which is where she's eventually heading to again, in one form or another), he was scaling her on a lower relative end of displayed strength, much like how he did with Superman. *Contextually*, the bridge feat was very impressive, given who was writing, and the POV he was taking in terms of expressed physical strength.

And flash runs at the speed of light, so there is no way WW runs faster than the speed of thought.

Originally posted by sese4lyfe
And flash runs at the speed of light, so there is no way WW runs faster than the speed of thought.



The speed of light is much, much faster than the speed of thought...

Or were you being sarcastic?

Wonder Woman.

I blame Bada for leaving this open...

Originally posted by -Pr-
I blame Bada for leaving this open...


No kidding. This is borderline spite.

Preeeeeeeeety much.

Jean Grey ftw. She can just use the Phoenix and kill her. I dont care if it says "No Phoenix" He or she just put that because they KNEW someone would say it and Jean would win. (:

The chariot is one of them. City-sized and she held it up for several minutes.

Also in JLA/Titans Technis Imperative she lifted a gigantic astroid too, and showed no signs of straining in the least.


Originally posted by Jason97
Jean Grey ftw. She can just use the Phoenix and kill her. I dont care if it says "No Phoenix" He or she just put that because they KNEW someone would say it and Jean would win. (:

Yes that's why it was put there, and that's why Jean loses. Interestingly enough, knowing why something is put there doesn't make it not there.

Originally posted by tideoftime


The speed of light is much, much faster than the speed of thought...

Or were you being sarcastic?

Well, not necessarily, it depends on who is thinking. Not only can speedsters obviously think faster than regular people (and at lightspeed or faster if they can coordenate motion at such speeds) but most telepaths think faster than regular humans too.

Omega Kid generated 10 million thoughts per second, this is difficult to put in terms of linear speed, but if we assume a regular human can come up with a completelly elaborated thought every second and the speed of normal thought is 30m/s like the rules say, then Omega would think at lightspeed.

Subliminal time allows for days worth of thought process in well under a second. Narration in a comic book with xavier once compared the speed of light to the speed of thought and claimed that while c is 300.000km/s the speed of though was simply incalcullable.

Originally posted by Q99
The chariot is one of them. City-sized and she held it up for several minutes.

Also in JLA/Titans Technis Imperative she lifted a gigantic astroid too, and showed no signs of straining in the least.




Yes that's why it was put there, and that's why Jean loses. Interestingly enough, knowing why something is put there doesn't make it not there.

Jean would still own her. Phoenix force ftw.

The Phoenix Force is the only way Jean stands a chance against Diana. Too bad it's excluded from the thread via the OP.

Originally posted by Jason97
Jean would still own her. Phoenix force ftw.

No Phoenix force. That's what 'no phoenix force' means.

WW stomps.

jean grey can still mind rape WW

Originally posted by chomperx9
jean grey can still mind rape WW

No she can't, Diana is the most mentally resistant person on the league.

Her lasso cancels mind control, and multiple of her godly gifts make her resistant to the point of being pretty much immune (Diana doesn't always notice when Dr. Psycho is trying to use his powers on her, and that was before she got her Eyes of Athena upgrade that makes her even more resistant).

Originally posted by Q99
No she can't, Diana is the most mentally resistant person on the league.

Her lasso cancels mind control, and multiple of her godly gifts make her resistant to the point of being pretty much immune (Diana doesn't always notice when Dr. Psycho is trying to use his powers on her, and that was before she got her Eyes of Athena upgrade that makes her even more resistant).

Originally posted by Q99
No she can't, Diana is the most mentally resistant person on the league.

Her lasso cancels mind control, and multiple of her godly gifts make her resistant to the point of being pretty much immune (Diana doesn't always notice when Dr. Psycho is trying to use his powers on her, and that was before she got her Eyes of Athena upgrade that makes her even more resistant).

Come on, when push comes to shove, Jean is gonna use the Phoenix force. Jean & the Phoenix have become one. Idk, who posted this forum, but they are dumb for putting "no phoenix force" because it would be obvious who won. Jean is a Omega Level Mutant, she could put a end man kind without ANYONE being able to stop her. (That is if she used the Phoenix)

I wanna see Wonder Woman try and do this. :P

youtube.com/watch?v=DAGUNp8TpxY

Originally posted by Jason97
Come on, when push comes to shove, Jean is gonna use the Phoenix force. Jean & the Phoenix have become one.

Except no, she can't just do it at will when she wants to. Accessing the full might of the phoenix force is something she isn't able to do 90% of the time. She doesn't use it for entire multi-year runs and she's lost many many fights without using it, and Phoenix-possessed Jean acts and fights significantly differently than normal Jean Grey.



Yes, it'd be obvious. And boring. And a different match-up, because non-phoenix Jean is how she normally is and whining about it won't suddenly change that. The Phoenix force being drawn out is an uncommon event that is specifically not happening here.

This is not "Phoenix vs Wonder Woman," this is Jean Grey vs Wonder Woman.


You want this to be a different matchup. We get it. It's not that matchup, deal with it and stop complaining.

Originally posted by Q99
Except no, she can't just do it at will when she wants to. Accessing the full might of the phoenix force is something she isn't able to do 90% of the time. She doesn't use it for entire multi-year runs and she's lost many many fights without using it, and Phoenix-possessed Jean acts and fights significantly differently than normal Jean Grey.



Yes, it'd be obvious. And boring. And a different match-up, because non-phoenix Jean is how she normally is and whining about it won't suddenly change that. The Phoenix force being drawn out is an uncommon event that is specifically not happening here.

This is not "Phoenix vs Wonder Woman," this is Jean Grey vs Wonder Woman.


You want this to be a different matchup. We get it. It's not that matchup, deal with it and stop complaining.

Im not complaing about anything. Im just saying, Jean would win **IF** She had the Phoenix force, but sadly, this dumb ass didn't put it. So nuff' said. Continue

BTW, I wanna see Wonder Woman try and do this. :P

youtube.com/watch?v=DAGUNp8TpxY

Originally posted by Jason97
Im not complaing about anything. Im just saying, Jean would win **IF** She had the Phoenix force,

Which everyone knows without needing to make a thread so there'd be no point in including it.



That's not dumb, it's called 'doing something that makes it a fight that lasts more than two seconds and could actually be argued about'. And you keep on bringing it up.

Originally posted by Q99
Which everyone knows without needing to make a thread so there'd be no point in including it.



That's not dumb, it's called 'doing something that makes it a fight that lasts more than two seconds and could actually be argued about'. And you keep on bringing it up.

Apparently not everyone knows. Well, "making it a fight that lasts more than two seconds" wouldn't work. If this was Phoenix vs Wonder Woman. There would be some Wonder Woman fanboy saying she would win, and clearly she wouldnt (AGAINST THE PHOENIX)


youtube.com/watch?v=DAGUNp8TpxY

Originally posted by Jason97
Apparently not everyone knows.

Everyone does know, that's why they don't make threads about it and instead make threads with just her Omega-level powers vs Diana.

Consensus on Phoenix vs WW is the fight lasts until Phoenix attacks. But, as you seem to keep forgetting, this thread is not about the phoenix force in the least.



Except not a single Wonder Woman fan is saying that, definitely not in this thread. We just have one Jean Grey fan keep on bringing up the Phoenix repeatedly even after being repeatedly informed, no, this thread is not about Phoenix.


You're the only one bringing up Phoenix Jean, no-one else is saying anything along those lines and is specifically talking about normal Jean, you should stop.

Originally posted by Q99
Everyone does know, that's why they don't make threads about it and instead make threads with just her Omega-level powers vs Diana.

Consensus on Phoenix vs WW is the fight lasts until Phoenix attacks. But, as you seem to keep forgetting, this thread is not about the phoenix force in the least.



Except not a single Wonder Woman fan is saying that, definitely not in this thread. We just have one Jean Grey fan keep on bringing up the Phoenix repeatedly even after being repeatedly informed, no, this thread is not about Phoenix.


You're the only one talking about Phoenix, no-one else is saying anything along those lines, Im stupid.

There not saying it because this isn't a Phoenix vs Wonder Woman thread.

I wanna see Wonder Woman try and do this. :P

youtube.com/watch?v=DAGUNp8TpxY

Originally posted by Jason97
There not saying it because this isn't a Phoenix vs Wonder Woman thread.


So... why do you keep bringing it up in this thread which is not about that when no-one is doing it?

Originally posted by Q99
So... why do you keep bringing it up in this thread which is not about that?

Because, Im letting people know, apparently know one has mentioned "Jean would win because of the Phoenix force" I know, it says no Phoenix, **** that. But someone has to start somewhere, so i did.

Originally posted by Jason97
Because, Im letting people know, apparently know one has mentioned "Jean would win because of the Phoenix force" I know, it says no Phoenix, **** that. But someone has to start somewhere, so i did.

No, no-one had to start it somewhere.

That is the point of thread topics, it means a thread is about a specific topic.

No-one mentioned it because they have reading comprehension.


If you want to start it somewhere, you make a new thread, not this one (btw, it's been done, consensus was: Phoenix wins as soon as it attacks).

Originally posted by Q99
No, no-one had to start it somewhere.

That is the point of thread topics, it means a thread is about a specific topic.

No-one mentioned it because they have reading comprehension.

This is my first time using a thread, thats why im a Junior member. Threads are for people who like starting shxt. And for geeks, I only made one because I wanted to say something about jean. And yes, some one had to start it somewhere. Thats what I did, so shut it. What you gonna say next "Phoenix is excluded from the thread, please stop"? lmfao

Originally posted by Jason97
Threads are for people who like starting shxt. And for geeks, I only made one because I wanted to say something about jean.

Something the thread starter specifically left out of this thread.




Nope, that's wrong.



The first post said no phoenix force so there's not really a need for me to.


You see, your way of doing things is dumb. It'd result in every thread being, "I know it's Wonder Woman vs Jean, but nothing said that Wonder Woman doesn't get all Seven of the Endless on her side."

That is why we have forum rule, so we can debate stuff.

Originally posted by Q99


Something the thread starter specifically left out of this thread.




Nope, that's wrong.



The first post said no phoenix force so there's not really a need for me to.


You see, your way of doing things is dumb. It'd result in every thread being, "I know it's Wonder Woman vs Jean, but nothing said that Wonder Woman doesn't get all Seven of the Endless on her side."

That is why we have forum rule, so we can debate stuff.

Im done widd this, Im done talking to you about this, but this **DOES NOT MEAN** im gonna stop talking about Jean and the Phoenix.

for god's shake just make a new thread including Phoenix and everyone's happy

Originally posted by Warlord
for god's shake just make a new thread including Phoenix and everyone's happy

THANK YOU