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God bless those funny sons of bitches.

http://www.lemonzoo.com/funny_videos/537/star_wars_kid_spoof.html

look out for the star wars kid at the end

BOOYAH!!!!!!!!!!

Lol, just lol.

Anyway, that isn't even a fight. LOTR would WTFpwn the other two into the dust.

Wow, that is hilarious, I remember watching that episode too. Family Guy makes so many Star Wars references, it's pretty funny.

That was an episode of American Dad...

In any event, LotR would get wasted instantly...

I agree. As soon as Aragorn finishes his rousing speech and gets his army all excited and invigorated, as soon as Legolas manages to get his arrow into his bow, and as soon as Gandalf finishes with his "Aiyeee! You shall not pass!," they'd get bombarded by a Star Destroyer.

*men cheering*

Aragorn: Now charge! To victory! To freedom! To the Age of Men!

*men cheering some more, charging forward*

Legolas: *looks dramatic, notches his arrow into his bow*

Gandalf: *smiles wisely*

Aragorn: Hyaa -- !

*Bada-BAM!! A green bolt of coherent light slams into the ground, followed by a couple thousand more, and the entire LotR posse gets WTFpwned.*

Originally posted by Ganner Rhysode
That was an episode of American Dad...

In any event, LotR would get wasted instantly...

What? The ordinary people would get wasted, sure. But thousands of Ainur will curbstomp SW and ST.

I'm not sure. There are ancient sith to match those guys. Melkor (who was one of the most powerful Valar) could get wounded by swords and normal attacks, a laser beam would utterly waste him. And the death star can blow up Middle-Earth. These guys need to walk you know.

Ancient Sith? They look like babies compared to the Valar. Oh, and Melkor was only able to be wounded by swords when he had given up most of his power.

And space? Melkor has no problem with walking in space.

thats lol...

LOTR would be mopped by SW.

so sorry Adie, but that's just what i think...

Originally posted by JaehSkywalker
thats lol...

LOTR would be mopped by SW.

so sorry Adie, but that's just what i think...

Anyone who reads Silmarillion would have to be a fool to think LOTR gets mopped up.

what that?

LOTR would get wasted by...DEATH-STAR.

Originally posted by Darth Traya
Ancient Sith? They look like babies compared to the Valar. Oh, and Melkor was only able to be wounded by swords when he had given up most of his power.

And space? Melkor has no problem with walking in space. Lol, that's very funny Traya. You actually believe that they can keep up with Star War's fighters and capital ships? I doubt it. Sorry but SW wins no contest. They would destroy them all with the Death Star. All Survivors of the destruction will most likely be the strongest, but still Star Wars outnumbers them. Look in Knights of the Old Republic Admiral Saul Karath said "There are billions of people on Taris". Look there are millions of star systems, and if you look at all the history they outnumber them by an unthinkable amount. SW will win no matter what against LOTOR, they are too primative to do any real damage. No damage with the Death Star or any super weapons, but a small amount of damage, a very small amount without them. Emphasis on very little.

Originally posted by DarthBanevv
Lol, that's very funny Traya. You actually believe that they can keep up with Star War's fighters and capital ships? I doubt it. Sorry but SW wins no contest. They would destroy them all with the Death Star. All Survivors of the destruction will most likely be the strongest, but still Star Wars outnumbers them. Look in Knights of the Old Republic Admiral Saul Karath said "There are billions of people on Taris". Look there are millions of star systems, and if you look at all the history they outnumber them by an unthinkable amount. SW will win no matter what against LOTOR, they are too primative to do any real damage. No damage with the Death Star or any super weapons, but a small amount of damage, a very small amount without them. Emphasis on very little.

I'll take it that you've never read the Silmarillion before. The Valar and the Maiar would make the Holocaust look like a teddy bears picnic...

Ok, can we keep this to disucssion of the clip, and NOT turn it into a tiresome franchise comparison? Thankyou.

I think we should just let this thread die.We already have a SW vs. ST forum LOTOR doesn't make much of a difference.

It does make a difference. But you haven't read the Silmarillion, so you don't understand why LOTR would WTFpwn them.

Sorry Traya, but Star Wars would win Star Wars has much more warriors. I've watched LotR but I wouldn't read the books or spend any time talking about it. Star Wars wins, your Valar or whatever would just be standing there in space. Star Wars would destory everybody else with the Death Star, then just leave, they are not worth their time. How would they even get back to the Star Wars galaxy for retaliation anyways? Seriously though, we have Mandalorians, Cathar, the Republic, Empire, Sepratists and the Rebel Alliance not to mention that most of the planet's in SW are warriors. add their passed generations and you would have an army greater than anything. But remember this is for each planet most have thousands of years of life on them. and just think about how many planets there are, millions! no way LOTR could stand up to SW's histotry as warriors.

Originally posted by DarthBanevv
Sorry Traya, but Star Wars would win Star Wars has much more warriors. I've watched LotR but I wouldn't read the books or spend any time talking about it. Star Wars wins, your Valar or whatever would just be standing there in space. Star Wars would destory everybody else with the Death Star, then just leave, they are not worth their time. How would they even get back to the Star Wars galaxy for retaliation anyways? Seriously though, we have Mandalorians, Cathar, the Republic, Empire, Sepratists and the Rebel Alliance not to mention that most of the planet's in SW are warriors. add their passed generations and you would have an army greater than anything. But remember this is for each planet most have thousands of years of life on them. and just think about how many planets there are, millions! no way LOTR could stand up to SW's histotry as warriors.

You've not read the books? Okay, but you've not read the Silmarillion, so you don't get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

The Valar are gods, extremely powerful gods. Coupled with the lesser gods of the Ainur, they would WTFpwn everything in their way.

Originally posted by Darth Traya
You've not read the books? Okay, but you've not read the Silmarillion, so you don't get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

The Valar are gods, extremely powerful gods. Coupled with the lesser gods of the Ainur, they would WTFpwn everything in their way. Have they ever traveled off of earth? Come on Traya just let the thread die. Nobody's posting here, because we already have a ST vs SW thread, that is dying already.

The Valar alone could whip out Star Wars alone. The Valar are Gods. Are you trying to say that the Ancient Sith Lords could suprass the Gods of Middle-Earth I doubt it and have you even heard about the Final Battle?

For those who haven't read the books because they don't have time (don't know how to read) the War of Wrath destroyed much of Middle-Earth. The army of balrogs would rip apart any capital ships. Not to mention Morgoth alone is the strongest Valar and could whip out the Death Star.

Star wars wins no contest.lotr is cool, and star trek is very cool, but star wars is the best for wars and battles (duh).

If the armies of middle earth fought the empire and the seps, them it would be a close call.But i think the force sensitives would kick butt.

Close call? Yep, sure. Melkor + The Balrog Legions could probably annihalate everyone anyway.

Originally posted by ESB - 1138
The Valar alone could whip out Star Wars alone. The Valar are Gods. Are you trying to say that the Ancient Sith Lords could suprass the Gods of Middle-Earth I doubt it and have you even heard about the Final Battle?

For those who haven't read the books because they don't have time (don't know how to read) the War of Wrath destroyed much of Middle-Earth. The army of balrogs would rip apart any capital ships. Not to mention Morgoth alone is the strongest Valar and could whip out the Death Star. So if they are gods can they be everywhere at once?

Dude... read the Silmarillion.

The Ancient Sith are powerful... but they are not gonna be able to compair to actuall gods.

People like Melkor would make Ragnos look like a kitten...

The Valar are gods, extremely powerful gods. Coupled with the lesser gods of the Ainur, they would WTFpwn everything in their way.

Incorrect.

They are angels. There is ONE God in Ea, and that's Eru.

And the Valar have done nothing impressive at all. They were scared by a Numenorean army which pales in comparison to 1/100th of the Imperial Fleet. They're greatest accomplishment was breaking Thangorodrim, which was guarded Melkor's very mortal Orcs (who get picked off by freaking arrows) in a "great" and "epic" battle.

A single blast from the Death Star or a bombardment from a single Imperial Star Destroyer and Valinor, nay, all of Arda goes down, unless the Illuvatar himself gets involved, which is ridiculous.

Seriously, the LOTR world would get wtfpwned in seconds.

Dude the Lotr would whoop ass. Melkor would just make a mountain appear in top Marka Ragnos... This was already said in another thread.

Ragnos wouldn't really make a difference in this fight.

Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot

The Valar are gods, extremely powerful gods. Coupled with the lesser gods of the Ainur, they would WTFpwn everything in their way.

Incorrect.

They are angels. There is ONE God in Ea, and that's Eru.

And the Valar have done nothing impressive at all. They were scared by a Numenorean army which pales in comparison to 1/100th of the Imperial Fleet. They're greatest accomplishment was breaking Thangorodrim, which was guarded Melkor's very mortal Orcs (who get picked off by freaking arrows) in a "great" and "epic" battle.

A single blast from the Death Star or a bombardment from a single Imperial Star Destroyer and Valinor, nay, all of Arda goes down, unless the Illuvatar himself gets involved, which is ridiculous.

Seriously, the LOTR world would get wtfpwned in seconds.

Tolkien says in his letters that they "might as well be gods" and that's what they basically are. Scared? No, it's the Teleri that flee, Manwe and the Valar do nothing because Illuvatar is going to wipe them out anyway. Breaking Thangodorim? The Valar weren't even there! Only Eonwe was.

So, read up...

Scared? No, it's the Teleri that flee, Manwe and the Valar do nothing because Illuvatar is going to wipe them out anyway.

Actually no. They summon Eru because they would risk destroying Valinor in a battle. The combined might of the Vala could not push back the Numenorean Fleet, or else they would done it and not summoned Eru.

Breaking Thangodorim? The Valar weren't even there! Only Eonwe was.

It consisted of Maiar, who accounts for most of the Ainur. And Eonwe was a Maiar, second only to Sauron in the Maiar power rankings.

I don't see them lasting any time at all unless Eru intervenes.

No, the Ainur arn't even mentioned. It says that the Numenorians camped around Tuna and the Eldar fled, and then Manwe called upon Eru, as he should...

And only Eonwe, the Vanyar and the remaininf Noldor went, noone else...

er..why are people so unconvinced to believe that Melkor ( Full power) would smash Ragnos to the ground, and with Ragnos being the most powerful being in SW, i think SW stands little chance against the Valar.

Thats like saying that we could destroy Angels with nukes, quite frankly that just wouldn't happen.

The valar wouldn't even be needed. Frodo would WTFpwn Marka Ragnos and Legolas would own the AT-AT's the way he owned the mumak in Rotk. This fight would be over in a matter of hours.

Originally posted by Blaxican_Hydra
The valar wouldn't even be needed. Frodo would WTFpwn Marka Ragnos and Legolas would own the AT-AT's the way he owned the mumak in Rotk. This fight would be over in a matter of hours. Now that, that is what I find highly unlikely. Frodo was a loser. I mean he couldn't even kill Smeagle without help.

Oh my bad I forgot to add my sarcasm tags...

Sorry, I really thought you were being serious.

I know. Its common.

Yeah. Next time put sarcasm emotes.

nah I just put the tags like so:


Frodo>Marka ragnos

All right. Whatever floats your boat.

Frodo pwns by destroying the scepterz of Ragnos,

Any body from LOTR can kill Marka Ragnos!

Are you kidding me? Put together the entire star wars history, the number of people, planets and ships. The numbers are astronomical. Who cares about the angels or that one God. Have the sun crusher rip the core from a nearby star and game over, or have the death star destory middle-earth. And dont say they can survive in Space you have no proof for it.

um..akbar? He was being sarcastic...and we all know gandalph would WTFWTFWTFWTFWTFWTFWTFpwn MArka ragnos, Sadow naga, and Exar Kun all at the same time.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Are you kidding me? Put together the entire star wars history, the number of people, planets and ships. The numbers are astronomical. Who cares about the angels or that one God. Have the sun crusher rip the core from a nearby star and game over, or have the death star destory middle-earth. And dont say they can survive in Space you have no proof for it.

Um... Akbar do you have any idea what you are talking about?

The Valar are gods and there is more than one of them... then you have Melkor who is more powerful than the Valar combined. Add this to... damn I forgot his name... I think it was Arau or Arua... something like that and it's already past overkill. WTF is anyone in SW gonna do against abunch of gods?

Travelling in space? Melkor had no problem with it.

But seriously, every water world in the galaxy will be ****ed over by Ulmo, and Manwe and his posse can obliterate the rest, via Manwe whipping up gigantic winds, Melkor creating volcanoes and the rest just WTFpwning everything in sight.

Yes, basicly. The Empire and republic build a base under ground, Manwe WTFpwns them by making the ground collapse on itself. They try to go underwater Elmo WTFpwns them by sinking them and crushing them with water pressure. Every starwars character relies on some factor of the planet their on, and so if the valar just take away those factors the SW guys are screwed.


Besides the fact that Frodo can simultaneously own Marka ragnos, Sadow naga, and Exar Kun all at the ame time.

Yeah! Frodo pwns...

Originally posted by Traya
Travelling in space? Melkor had no problem with it.

But seriously, every water world in the galaxy will be ****ed over by Ulmo, and Manwe and his posse can obliterate the rest, via Manwe whipping up gigantic winds, Melkor creating volcanoes and the rest just WTFpwning everything in sight. Star Wars would just send the Death Star, kill everyone on the planet. Sure they would destory it afterwards. But they would only destroy the Death Star, if that's all Star Wars sends. Or can they just make another planet?

Well unless they invade SW, SW have no chance, as in SW the all powerful creator is the Force, meaning that the Valar cannot change the natural elements as they see fit. Without the Valar and Eru in LOTR, LOTR is screwed tenfold over. The Ancient Sith were as close as to "Godlike" as possible, its probable Ragnos could taken down Sauron (The Strongest Maiar ) and the rest would be pwned.

However the Valar and Eru tip the scales in LOTR's favour majorly, unless you state the Force binds all things, then its possible SW Force Powers will have a greater effect.

Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't LOTR only have one planet?And if the Death Star destroys it? What exactly are the Valar and Eru going to do when that happens? Unless Eru is God of SW as well i doubt he can do much unless he spawns another planet, which is likely to get screwed over.

However i agree with Traya, Melkor would destroy Ragnos, but i doubt they have the numbers and power to destroy every bit of SW techonogly. 14 Demi Gods and 1 God of LOTR cannot destroy a Billion spaceships, a few superstations ( Death Star, Star Forge etc. ) and over a trillion Soldiers/Force users. Honestly on Ground battle in Middle Earth the Valar and Eru win. But out in space where Eru does not control everything as SW is of a parallel Universe, i doubt he'll win. LOTR may have the strongest Character but they lack technology and numbers, there isn't much of a chance of them winning.

Now unless one of you people out there explain just how the Valar and Eru are going to deal with all those spaceships/spacestations and Planets where Eru does not have power over all nor do the Valar control the elements (The Force does in SW) they lose.

Invading LOTR wont be hard, every 10 years come out blow up Middle Earth, let Eru rebuild it and repeat the process. As long as the SW characters do not engage within Middle Earth they win.

Originally posted by Deception
Well unless they invade SW, SW have no chance, as in SW the all powerful creator is the Force, meaning that the Valar cannot change the natural elements as they see fit. Without the Valar and Eru in LOTR, LOTR is screwed tenfold over. The Ancient Sith were as close as to "Godlike" as possible, its probable Ragnos could taken down Sauron (The Strongest Maiar ) and the rest would be pwned.

Sauron the strongest Maiar? Pfft, that's fallacious. I remeber reading that Sauron surrendered to Eonwe out of fear...



I don't see force powers having greater effects than the powers of the Valar.



If the Death Star destroys it? Nothing, they fly into space and start to methodically WTFpwn everything in sight. It'll take them a long time, but.



14 demi-gods? That's named Valar alone, and considering that Tolkien says that the "Ainur were of countless number" and that Melkor had legions upon legions of Balrog's sack Gondolin, I see the number being in the hundreds.



Typical argument, presuming that a certain person's powes won't have any affect in another universe. I see Melkor picking up Grond and smashing SuperSDs in two or Balrog's obliterating everything in sight.



"Won't be hard"? It's no harder to comprehend than your fallacious statement that it'll take ten years for Eru to rebuild Middle Earth.

But you still haven't proven why the LOTR Powers would override SW Powers, which is the "All Powerful Force" here the SW Force or Eru's Creation power.

And who is invading who? Its typical, if SW invades another, it will have to abide by that Universes Laws, likewise with any other force invading SW. Meaning Eru will not be immortal nor will he have complete control, he may have his powers and yes the Valar and Eru will wreak havoc but nothing shows that they will pwn Star Wars.

Except apart from the Valar and Eru, they can't all fly and wonder into space, and except you can't do anything but speculate whether the SW powers will work on LOTR Characters and whether LOTR Powers will work likewise.

So your saying the Valar can whip up a force storm in or some technique they are never shown to have? Eru is not God in SW, he does not have that ability. And if the Valar can spawn Mountains in mid air, gravity will nulify its mass.

So your saying that SW powers and techonogly are not even going to scatch the Valar and Eru? Consider that they are not immortal in another dimension otherwise that would be pointless. Unless stated the Setting will be on neutral ground with the Valar and Eru and SW powers neither being dominant and all being mortal, otherwise a fight would not work. Unless you specifically state that the setting in the LOTR Universe and abiding by LOTR rules i don't see them winning here.

The most LOTR can Conjure up is a planet worth of prehistoric warfare in SW terms. None of the Gods there have even demonstrated power enough to attack an enemy of that size. Your speculating on what could be.

On Your Quote on the Valar flying into space and wtfpwning everything, where is the proof that the Valar can do this? Middle Earth has never been destroyed and hence you are speculating on their power.

Sauron the strongest Maiar? Pfft, that's fallacious. I remeber reading that Sauron surrendered to Eonwe out of fear...

Eonwe was the most powerful Maiar before the Second Age... but after Sauron made the ring he was more powerful than Morgoth at his worst.

Typical argument, presuming that a certain person's powes won't have any affect in another universe. I see Melkor picking up Grond and smashing SuperSDs in two or Balrog's obliterating everything in sight.

Morgoth at his prime would be able to do that of course, but a Balrog? A Balrog gets beaten single-handedly by freaking Elves. Hurin took down a few as well. A few clones could take down a Balrog.

And where does "Ainur can fly in space" come from? Every single Ainur who crossed the sea took a boat. And Morgoth was pretty much trapped in a void beyond Ea, which has an uncanny resemblance to space.


14 demi-gods? That's named Valar alone, and considering that Tolkien says that the "Ainur were of countless number" and that Melkor had legions upon legions of Balrog's sack Gondolin, I see the number being in the hundreds.

Legions upon legions? He said "host", but really, that was retconned in a letter when he said there were never more than 7 Balrogs.

Honestly, if ominpotent Eru gets involved its over. But Maiar and Valar were proven to be harmed by swords and mortals. If Elendil, Gil-Galad and Isuldur can take down Sauron, one of the mightiest Maia, why can't 3 Jedi? Why can't an ISD?

And for there to be Balrogs in this battle Morgoth cannot be at his prime. They were a result of his corruption. They were part of his Ring.

Originally posted by Deception
But you still haven't proven why the LOTR Powers would override SW Powers, which is the "All Powerful Force" here the SW Force or Eru's Creation power.

There is none. And there is no evidence to suggest the contrary either. We might as well work on a presumption the the powers of the Ainur and the powers of the Jedi will work in each other's galaxies an holdings, otherwise it'll make this fight...dodgy.



This makes no sense. Imposing arbitary limits on who and what can use there powers where is silly. We might as well presume that they can use their powers in each others "areas" otherwise this is not even a versus fight.



More nonsense. We might as well presume the Ainur can use their powers otherwise this is, as I've said before, a nonsensical fight.



Never shown to have? Manwe is given control of the winds, therefore it's pretty simple to presume that he'll be able to control the wind. It's simple deduction. And you keep on playing the "but their powers won't work card!".



More nonsense. I've adressed this point before...



Perhaps because they've not attacked aythign that size before. And honestly, why not just have Arien fly near the planet?

On Your Quote on the Valar flying into space and wtfpwning everything, where is the proof that the Valar can do this? Middle Earth has never been destroyed and hence you are speculating on their power.

If Melkor can, then I'm presuming the rest of the Valar can, otherwise this is a silly fight.

So basically, your entire argument rests on the presumption that LOTR powers can't work in the SW universe, which is silly and makes this not even a fight, so...

QED.

Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot

Eonwe was the most powerful Maiar before the Second Age... but after Sauron made the ring he was more powerful than Morgoth at his worst.

Nope, the Ring has no effect on Sauron's powers. If you'd have taken the care to read it more carefully, you'd have picked up on the fact that the Ring is designed to help Sauron dominate the other ring users. Presuming that it adds to his power when he's essentially siphoning off his power from himself and not another source is somewhat fallacious...



Um, elves? Yes, when there were legions of them, in an army that was described as the mightiest in history, and considering that the fight they put up was enough to wipe out a demi-continent I'd say that your just making up bullshit now. And Hurin takes down troll not Balrogs, silly.



Trapped? No, he was willingly searching for the Secret Fire, then we was unwillingly trapped. And why would space travel be necessary to the Ainur? There's no reason for travelling into space and then trying to aerially "travel" into Valinor.



No, considering that he changed his mind later on. Later Tolkien sources > Earlier ones.



Because Sauron died when the Ring was cut from him. Galad and Elendil died against him. Because an ISD will be ****ed if the Valar decide to change their forms into something small. There's nothing stopping
Manwe from taking the form of a small robin, travelling undetected to the ISD, re-forming and then ****ing it up, or any of the others.



Yes, but this is the entire LOTR Universe, I'm presuming this is with everyone from their primes, and even so, they can take this without Melkor...

Far to much speculation, this is leading nowhere. The one thing you have not proved is that the LOTR gods could survive in space. All Star Wars has to do is use the Sun Crusher to rip the core from a nearby star and destroy whatever solar system Middle-Earth is part of. As far As I know the Sun Crusher is indestructible. Nothing can destory it.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Far to much speculation, this is leading nowhere. The one thing you have not proved is that the LOTR gods could survive in space. All Star Wars has to do is use the Sun Crusher to rip the core from a nearby star and destroy whatever solar system Middle-Earth is part of. As far As I know the Sun Crusher is indestructible. Nothing can destory it.

Ackbar, we might as well presume they can considering that:

1) Melkor has travelled in space

and

2) If not then it makes little sense.

Your post makes no sense. It's basically presuming that the Ainur are going to sit around and let the Empire attack them. If their intelligent, they won't. They'll take the initiative and attack first...

And the Sun Crusher? Seriously, it's not been attacked by anything with the strength or calibre of the Ainur.

it can be destroyed if one was to say...turn himself into a small creaturw and enter it than destroy it from the inside.

And how would that small creature enter the Sun Crusher? Better yet prove up that one can turn into a small creature.

Originally posted by Traya
Ackbar, we might as well presume they can considering that:

1) Melkor has travelled in space

and

2) If not then it makes little sense.

Your post makes no sense. It's basically presuming that the Ainur are going to sit around and let the Empire attack them. If their intelligent, they won't. They'll take the initiative and attack first...

And the Sun Crusher? Seriously, it's not been attacked by anything with the strength or calibre of the Ainur.

The Empire? We are talking about the entire SW universe here, more than just the empire will attack. And Melkor is one person outnumbered by trillions. Your being rational, comparing a god and a few demi-gods to far more people than you can think of.

Unless these Ainur use the force and could predict an invasion, or even have the brains to think of a counter-attack against a SW universe with far better technology they stand a very little chance of survival.

I agree with Akbar.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
And how would that small creature enter the Sun Crusher? Better yet prove up that one can turn into a small creature.

The Valar and other super natrul beings can all change form, as for gettig in the being can change into somethign microscopic.

Ok Lord of the Rings pwns them.

Its called Illuvatar the All powerful. Basically an invincible God of the Lord of the Rings world.

In a wave of His hand he would dispel the Jedi knights and turn Marka Ragnos into a turnip.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Ok Lord of the Rings pwns them.

Its called Illuvatar the All powerful. Basically an invincible God of the Lord of the Rings world.

In a wave of His hand he would dispel the Jedi knights and turn Marka Ragnos into a turnip.

Yeah, If LOTR has Illuvatar then its over.

Zephiel7 you operate on the fact that Illuvatar is completely dominant in SW.

Don't forget that in SW the dominant power is the Force, unless you are saying Illuvatar is the Force itself he will not have such godly powers.

Traya, to make a fight fair, you place both sides on equal ground without completely unfair tactics. So the Valar and Eru are immortal? That is insane that means SW has no chance, and your basing it only on what happens in the LOTR Universe you cannot prove that they have the exact same power in Neutral ground, you can only substantiate that SW and LOTR have even footing, and using all that they have shown in a fight, meaning neither will be "immortal" nor "invincible."]

To add, you have also stated that the Valar and Eru will wtfpwn everything, within Middle Earth, which Eru created, meaning the very matter within Middle Earth is of Eru, so quite obviously he can create and destroy at his own will. But prove that he controls matter outside of Valinor and Middle Earth, prove that the Universe bekons to his will, Prove that The Force, which controls everything in the SW universe is inferior to Illuvatar.

If you specifically state it is within the LOTR Universe then SW is screwed.

Originally posted by Deception
Zephiel7 you operate on the fact that Illuvatar is completely dominant in SW.

Don't forget that in SW the dominant power is the Force, unless you are saying Illuvatar is the Force itself he will not have such godly powers.

Traya, to make a fight fair, you place both sides on equal ground without completely unfair tactics. So the Valar and Eru are immortal? That is insane that means SW has no chance, and your basing it only on what happens in the LOTR Universe you cannot prove that they have the exact same power in Neutral ground, you can only substantiate that SW and LOTR have even footing, and using all that they have shown in a fight, meaning neither will be "immortal" nor "invincible."

If you specifically state it is within the LOTR Universe then SW is screwed.

SW basically has no chance, the Valar cant die, and as long as Illuvatar is omnipotent then all he has to do is wave his hand and SW is WTFpwned.

The closest thing SW has to a god is DE Sidious...Unfortunately *even* he isnt strong enough to defeat all the Valar.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
SW basically has no chance, the Valar cant die, and as long as Illuvatar is omnipotent then all he has to do is wave his hand and SW is WTFpwned.

Provide Proof, within two Universe there is 2 Dominant "Gods." In SW its The Force, and you have failed to prove why that would be inferior to Illuvatar. Whilst The Force has been shown to control everything around the Universe, the only "matter" Illuvatar controls is his own creation which is quite reasonable, you fail to show why they would be immortal and invincible within a different dimension, and that is completely your opinion.

Illuvatar has only been shown to control the Matter within Arda and Valinor and nowhere else, he did not create SW, meaning he is not the dominant power. Within SW The Force is and even Illuvatar will have to abide by it if they fight within SW.

Putting it on Neutral Ground means that Illuvatar and the Valar will have the power they demonstrated, but it does mean "ZOMG one swipe of his hand he wins. Provide proof to support what you have stated.

Note how Traya automatically put LOTR as the dominant force when we discussed the fight, that is completely unreasonable and she disregards the SW God "The Force"

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
The closest thing SW has to a god is DE Sidious...Unfortunately *even* he isnt strong enough to defeat all the Valar.

No its Marka Ragnos DE Sidious is below the Ancient Sith, Nadd, Kun and NJO/DN Luke. Even if you dont agree that is the majority's opinion and since you are outvoted for the sake of fights those rankings stand.

Originally posted by Deception
Provide Proof, within two Universe there is 2 Dominant "Gods." In SW its The Force, and you have failed to prove why that would be inferior to Illuvatar. Whilst The Force has been shown to control everything around the Universe, the only "matter" Illuvatar controls is his own creation which is quite reasonable, you fail to show why they would be immortal and invincible within a different dimension, and that is completely your opinion.

Illuvatar has only been shown to control the Matter within Arda and Valinor and nowhere else, he did not create SW, meaning he is not the dominant power. Within SW The Force is and even Illuvatar will have to abide by it if they fight within SW.

Putting it on Neutral Ground means that Illuvatar and the Valar will have the power they demonstrated, but it does mean "ZOMG one swipe of his hand he wins. Provide proof to support what you have stated.

Note how Traya automatically put LOTR as the dominant force when we discussed the fight, that is completely unreasonable and she disregards the SW God "The Force"


The force is not a sentient god-like entity, it is just a universal energy field.


You arent making sense, by limiting the Valars powers you are changing their identity which is silly.


There isnt anything to stop Illuvatar from WTFpwning SW...give it up.

Originally posted by Deception
No its Marka Ragnos DE Sidious is below the Ancient Sith, Nadd, Kun and NJO/DN Luke. Even if you dont agree that is the majority's opinion and since you are outvoted for the sake of fights those rankings stand.

You guys can disagree, I dont give a damn b*tches.

The very idea of Illuvatar is that he transcends all other life. His power is so great that there is no exact way to damage him, because he is not corporeal. The force is described more as an interaction between midocholrians and living matter than an actual omnipotent god. Star Destroyers and whatnot would mean nothing against him.

If he is truly defined as immortal and all powerful, then this spans across pretty much any context. Illuvatar, being omnipresent would also have complete knowledge of his enemy. This includes every single bit of knowledge on the force, how the force could be manipulated and how it could be "destroyed."

Really, this is quite a silly discussion, I feel like I am in grade 5 again.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
The force is not a sentient god-like entity, it is just a universal energy field.


You arent making sense, by limiting the Valars powers you are changing their identity which is silly.


There isnt anything to stop Illuvatar from WTFpwning SW...give it up.

So if the will of the Force is for Illuvatar to suddendly die, then in SW he would disappear and be gone as with the other Valar.

In terms of SW, the Valar and Illuvatar do not control its matter, you still haven't proven it, so im not the one giving up, you just have no arguments.

Say i wasn't going to limit them, in the Sense of SW, and the Force dominating, the Valar and Illuvatar can die and in the same sense disappear if the Force wills it so. So thus LOTR will not wtfpwn everything. Since its the Force that creates SW, it can be assumed that the Force gave a single entity power enough to destroy the LOTR Gods.

Originally posted by Deception
So if the will of the Force is for Illuvatar to suddendly die, then in SW he would disappear and be gone as with the other Valar.

In terms of SW, the Valar and Illuvatar do not control its matter, you still haven't proven it, so im not the one giving up, you just have no arguments.

Say i wasn't going to limit them, in the Sense of SW, and the Force dominating, the Valar and Illuvatar can die and in the same sense disappear if the Force wills it so. So thus LOTR will not wtfpwn everything. Since its the Force that creates SW, it can be assumed that the Force gave a single entity power enough to destroy the LOTR Gods.

WTH is this? Come back when you learn how to make sense.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
WTH is this? Come back when you learn how to make sense.

You need to learn to read.

I simply said that Illuvatar is not God of SW, and the Force controls everything in SW. So if the Force wants Illuvatar to die, he will die. Unless its within the LOTR Universe.

Originally posted by Deception
You need to learn to read.

I simply said that Illuvatar is not God of SW, and the Force controls everything in SW. So if the Force wants Illuvatar to die, he will die. Unless its within the LOTR Universe.

Yes I know what you said, however it isnt based on any sound logic. How do you suppose the force would 'kill' Illuvatar when the force isnt even sentient and doesnt have a will.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Yes I know what you said, however it isnt based on any sound logic. How do you suppose the force would 'kill' Illuvatar when the force isnt even sentient and doesnt have a will.

Technically the Force created Anakin Skywalker, if you've played Kotor then you know in SW, the Force Binds all things and every action has a consquence, so thus if the Force itself was in danger in can will something to happen, when the force was unbalanced the force willed the birth of Anakin indirectly through Plaguies or it just directly willed Anakin.

Now instead of just saying i have no logic, where is the logic in just saying that Gods of LOTR will wtfpwn everything? In saying that i could just say our God although he hasn't demonstrated much power can wtfpwn every other Universe because accordingly in created that the Universe.

On further note consider The Force "binds all things" that includes everything that resides within the Force meaning whatever is within the SW Galaxy.

Originally posted by Deception
Technically the Force created Anakin Skywalker, if you've played Kotor then you know in SW, the Force Binds all things and every action has a consquence, so thus if the Force itself was in danger in can will something to happen, when the force was unbalanced the force willed the birth of Anakin indirectly through Plaguies or it just directly willed Anakin.

Now instead of just saying i have no logic, where is the logic in just saying that Gods of LOTR will wtfpwn everything? In saying that i could just say our God although he hasn't demonstrated much power can wtfpwn every other Universe because accordingly in created that the Universe.

On further note consider The Force "binds all things" that includes everything that resides within the Force meaning whatever is within the SW Galaxy.

Okay fine if you assume the force is capable of balancing itself it still doesnt matter...

If Illuvatar actually existed, then he would literally transcend everything. He would be the one that created the SWU in the first place, and he would certainly end it if he had to. GG.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Okay fine if you assume the force is capable of balancing itself it still doesnt matter...

If Illuvatar actually existed, then he would literally transcend everything. He would be the one that created the SWU in the first place, and he would certainly end it if he had to. GG.


Now your working on "what ifs" the fact is, he didn't create SW and thus he does not have that power to control SW, i'll admit if SW enter LOTR they're screwed for sure, but likewise LOTR are not as dominant in SW so thus they lose in the SW Universe and they win in the LOTR universe.

You could just as well say, Illuvatar will make a complete Universe with everything that SW has in it, and i can just as easily say The Force grants Ragnos the same powers, when piting creators against creators it is quite pointless as they have no end result, thus its only fair of Illuvatar is not included in such a fight.

Originally posted by Deception
Now your working on "what ifs" the fact is, he didn't create SW and thus he does not have that power to control SW, i'll admit if SW enter LOTR they're screwed for sure, but likewise LOTR are not as dominant in SW so thus they lose in the SW Universe and they win in the LOTR universe.

You could just as well say, Illuvatar will make a complete Universe with everything that SW has in it, and i can just as easily say The Force grants Ragnos the same powers, when piting creators against creators it is quite pointless as they have no end result, thus its only fair of Illuvatar is not included in such a fight.

*sigh* Illuvatar is GOD, everything that exists is so because of him. If we assume he is real, then he *did* create the SWU and he has the power to destroy it at any given moment if he chooses to. This is pointless, SW faces an undefeatable foe. You fail to realize the force does not equal Illuvatar, because it is just an energy field that binds life...it isnt god in a Christian-like sense.

Er dude Illuvatar is based on the Christian God, Melkor is what Satan is, you are quite wrong, he exists soley in the LOTR World, so in answer to your question you cannot say he is god, because that is completely biased, then i can easily say Earth will pwn Lotr because our god is stated to have created the Universe.

Quite frankly its only fair to have the force on even footing with Illuvatar otherwise its extremely pointless to have LOTR vs Anyone because in your logic it means he will always win.

In other words, regarding what Traya said about a fight being dodgy if we limit the power of the Valar and Illuvatar, in not doing so, the fight because more pointless since you say Illuvatar is God.

In that case this thread is pointless and should be closed ASAP, as there is no way to argue.

No in a vs match i assume the "All Powerful of each Respective Side" has equal footing, yet in what you have said you give LOTR the biggest undefeatable advantage thus making this thread completely stupid.

No, I was disagreeing with the imbecilic concept that the Ainur can't use their powers in the SWU. Having Illuvatar on the LOTR side essentially means that SW will get WTFpwned, so I don't think we should include him, however.

Since when has the force actually displayed signs of major intervention in the galaxy? We don't see the force wiping out Sidious in the OT, we don't even see it trying to stop Traya destroying itself. It acts indirectly...

No its Marka Ragnos DE Sidious is below the Ancient Sith, Nadd, Kun and NJO/DN Luke. Even if you dont agree that is the majority's opinion and since you are outvoted for the sake of fights those rankings stand.

Maybe because he won't have the time to be able to summon a force storm in those fights? Even without them he's pretty uber.

Regardless, Sidious cooks up huge Force storms from his arse that would rip apart huge fleets. I don't see how the Valar would be immune to the divine Star Wars Force. Let's not forget Sadow does something similar but larger, although he used his ship, which would be granted in this fight.

I'm still wondring how Arda survives a Death Star blast.

Originally posted by Traya
No, I was disagreeing with the imbecilic concept that the Ainur can't use their powers in the SWU. Having Illuvatar on the LOTR side essentially means that SW will get WTFpwned, so I don't think we should include him, however.

Since when has the force actually displayed signs of major intervention in the galaxy? We don't see the force wiping out Sidious in the OT, we don't even see it trying to stop Traya destroying itself. It acts indirectly...

True it acts indirectly, however it can grant powers through another entity, as it did through Anakin. Whats the say that The Force knew that Kreia's death was inevitable, or the events were set by the Force itself. now when a Being that comes along that threatens the heart of the Force more so than anything else, the Force will not allow it to destroy to destroy the Force. Thus through Ragnos or some other Sith/Jedi they may or may not destroy Illuvatar.

If you so strongly believe Illuvatar destroys everything then here's anther question for you Traya. Christian God (Assume the Bible is correct) vs Illuvatar.

Btw I didn't say that their Powers cant be used, i stated that they cannot wtfpwn everything due to the fact their powers have not been shown to work on a galactic scale.

Originally posted by Deception
Er dude Illuvatar is based on the Christian God, Melkor is what Satan is, you are quite wrong, he exists soley in the LOTR World, so in answer to your question you cannot say he is god, because that is completely biased, then i can easily say Earth will pwn Lotr because our god is stated to have created the Universe.

Quite frankly its only fair to have the force on even footing with Illuvatar otherwise its extremely pointless to have LOTR vs Anyone because in your logic it means he will always win.

In other words, regarding what Traya said about a fight being dodgy if we limit the power of the Valar and Illuvatar, in not doing so, the fight because more pointless since you say Illuvatar is God.

In that case this thread is pointless and should be closed ASAP, as there is no way to argue.

No in a vs match i assume the "All Powerful of each Respective Side" has equal footing, yet in what you have said you give LOTR the biggest undefeatable advantage thus making this thread completely stupid.


1. Tolkien based Illuvatar off the Christian god, he says this himself, please stop wasting our time.


2. YES this thread is pointless, because unless you limit the powers of Illuvatar and the Valar(which is stupid) then they WTFpwn everyone.


3. Im simply using sound logic, LOTR *does* have an undefeatable adavantage...the end.

Originally posted by Deception
True it acts indirectly, however it can grant powers through another entity, as it did through Anakin. Whats the say that The Force knew that Kreia's death was inevitable, or the events were set by the Force itself. now when a Being that comes along that threatens the heart of the Force more so than anything else, the Force will not allow it to destroy to destroy the Force. Thus through Ragnos or some other Sith/Jedi they may or may not destroy Illuvatar.

If you so strongly believe Illuvatar destroys everything then here's anther question for you Traya. Christian God (Assume the Bible is correct) vs Illuvatar.

Btw I didn't say that their Powers cant be used, i stated that they cannot wtfpwn everything due to the fact their powers have not been shown to work on a galactic scale.


1. There has never been any hard evidence of the force being sentient, unless you can prove it up then your case is fruitless. And even if you do somehow prove it, it doesnt matter because Illuvatar is infinitely more powerful.

2. That would be a logical paradox, two omnipotent foes facing off against eachother.


3. WHY? Your fruitless claims are getting tiresome.

Your all retards for even arguign about this because we all know Frodo is a force god and would WTFpwn ever sorry ass SW person in the univere SIMULTANEOUSLY!!!!!

Not R2!!!!!!1111

Originally posted by Traya
No, I was disagreeing with the imbecilic concept that the Ainur can't use their powers in the SWU. Having Illuvatar on the LOTR side essentially means that SW will get WTFpwned, so I don't think we should include him, however.

Since when has the force actually displayed signs of major intervention in the galaxy? We don't see the force wiping out Sidious in the OT, we don't even see it trying to stop Traya destroying itself. It acts indirectly...

I would argue that EVERYTHING that happens in the SW universe is according to its will, negating the idea of free will and replacing it with an illusion. Notice that the Force seems to always strive for balance, with good maintaining the balance and evil seeking to destroy the balance. This puts the Force on a scale of less a god and more a permeating omniscient consciousness that pulls the strings of EVERYTHING in the SW universe so subtly it's not easy to even detect.

I'd just like to point that theory out, since it's one championed by your namesake.

Yeah, well if you include Artoo, it would be all too easy for Star Wars.

Yeah, just having Artoo's most casual trinkets makes one a god.

Originally posted by Blaxican_Hydra
Your all retards for even arguign about this because we all know Frodo is a force god and would WTFpwn ever sorry ass SW person in the univere SIMULTANEOUSLY!!!!!
...

... except for R2. Lets just say that Frodo is the R2 of Lotr.

Originally posted by Wesker
I would argue that EVERYTHING that happens in the SW universe is according to its will, negating the idea of free will and replacing it with an illusion. Notice that the Force seems to always strive for balance, with good maintaining the balance and evil seeking to destroy the balance. This puts the Force on a scale of less a god and more a permeating omniscient consciousness that pulls the strings of EVERYTHING in the SW universe so subtly it's not easy to even detect.

I'd just like to point that theory out, since it's one championed by your namesake.

Indeed.

GV read Wesker's post. He is correct.

Originally posted by Blaxican_Hydra
Your all retards for even arguign about this because we all know Frodo is a force god and would WTFpwn ever sorry ass SW person in the univere SIMULTANEOUSLY!!!!!
...

... except for R2. Lets just say that Frodo is the R2 of Lotr.

No, Frodo is gay.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3376/198059qvxuw3ia.jpg

We know Frodo is gay. But he's still all powerful.

Originally posted by Deception
GV read Wesker's post. He is correct.

Even if he was correct, it doesnt matter, Illuvatar is infinitely more powerful.



Frodo vs Artoo would be the fight of the ages...

I think in these versus fights we should exclude anybody who isn't mortal so can't be killed, and anybody with enough power to singlehandedly win the fight.