" Your Guidance " ?

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master harmax
" So - they finally let you have an assignment, on your own ?
Your patience has paid off ! "

Anakin : " Your guidance, more than my patience "

What guidance does he refer to ? Has he been having clandestine meetings with Palpatine, unknown to anyone, even Obi Wan ?

yerssot
I think Anakin is talking about him and Palpatine talking from time to time, like "I forsee you'll become the greatest of all Jedi", the basic s*cking up to get someone with a high selfesteem

Ushgarak
Something left rather open, though I would be surprised if it was entirely covert advice that Palpatine had been offering Anakin over time. Judging by his lines at the end of TPM I get the idea that Palpatine has maintained contact with them both, actually.

yerssot
well, even for Anakin it would be suspicious if Palpatine would teach him how to use a lightsabre...

master harmax
Well something as obvious as that, would naturally raise suspicion. But, Palpatine surely has his eyes on Anakin as a possible future apprentice ... and as such, it was a bit of a miscalculation on his part, to let Anakin come into close contact with Count Dooku so early, as to have got into a combat situation with Dooku. Because Anakin almost got killed in the process.

Ushgarak
Well, you know, if that is the way it goes... I don't think Palpatine is SO set on Anakin that we would go massively out of his way to protect him.

yerssot
well, you could argue that Anakin is the Chosen One and won't easily die... well... ok... he did got some lightning on him that killed him in RotJ... makes you think about the power of it...

never mind my post roll eyes (sarcastic)

master harmax
I'm not sure Palpatine knows about him being the Chosen One ... just a very exceptionally gifted young jedi padawan, one he would really like to have as his sith apprentice, after Dooku.

yerssot
well, if you're powerfull enough to not get noted by the ENTIRE Jedi Order... I think you're good enough to think Anakin is special...

Ushgarak
I also think the Sith are into rather 'compteitive' examination; if Anakin was killed before Palpatine deemed him ready for conversion then Palpatine probably would have thought he woulnd;t have been good enough anyway.

jedi fernando

master harmax
Yes of course they have stayed in touch, as implied by the last scene in TPM. It's just that " Your guidance " might imply more than just cursory meetings and staying in touch.

LaurenE147
I think he's been softening Anakin up to his being around and in a guiding position. They're close and Anakin trusts him

Corran
And Palpatine has been suggesting things to Anakin like the senate is useless and they need someone to make decisions and for people to be told to do it, I get this from this scene:-

ANAKIN:We need a system where the politicians sit down and discuss the problems, agree what's in the best interests of all the people, and then do it.
PADME: That is exactly what we do. The trouble is that people don't always agree. In fact, they hardly ever do.
ANAKIN: Then they should be made to.
PADME: By whom? Who's going to make them?
ANAKIN:I don't know. Someone.
PADME:You?
ANAKIN:Of course not me.
PADME:But someone.
ANAKINmessedomeone wise.
PADME:That sounds an awful lot like a dictatorship to me.
ANAKIN:Well, if it works...

and I think Anakin will finally come around to the Idea of the Empire.

Ushgarak
Actually, I will be amazed if Palpatine ever said to Anakin that the Senate was useless. He almost certainly would have defended it vigorously while teaching Anakin enouigh to come to his own conclusions.

jedi fernando
...and then padme tells anakin no to tiss her saying that stuff. and anakin just smiles.

that scene was a bit curious to my senses.

was he actually joking or not????

i think he was. coz, like ush says, i dont think palpatine would ever tell anakin that the senators are useless, he would be saying stuff against the character of "chanciller palpatine" who everybody thinks is a good democratic person.

yerssot
"She will not reject an executive order"
well, if he needed to say that, than you can bet he didn't say the senate was useless, otherwhise it would be "heck, I don't care, I'm the boss"

peluffo
I'm pretty sure that Palpy did a nice fine job with annie this last 10 years, as he did with the whole Republic and the Whole JC.

C'mon!! this guy is plotting everithing under JC nose!!! How could you all ever doubt about Palpatine's influence on Anakin, I mean, the way of thinking, arrogance, and everithing of Ani is perfectly explained thru the scene on palpy's office, and confirmed with that last line of TPM!!! PALPATINE IS GUIDING THIS GUY, and i'm pretty sure that he feels that Palps trust him where Obi Wan faults!

yerssot
but even for one who wants to get his ego getting noticed by others it would ring some suspiciousy when a chancellor suddenly shows how good he is in teaching a padawan in a full knight

LaurenE147
what peluffo said

peluffo
Where you read (or anybody) that Palps is teaching him on THAT way? He is fulfilling a fatherhood to the kid.


Consider that this voice around his ear have been whispering since HIS 9 years to now. Did anyone consider WHAT is the mind of a 9 year old Kid? And what are the consecuences of having a "supreme chancellor" of the gallaxy speaking nice words at you at THAT AGE???? and keeping doing it for 10 years (not to mention that THIS 10 years are chritical on the maturity of a personality)??????



How palpatine is doing this stuff with anakin is clear to me. Anakin don't have the minor chance to know for real that HE IS BEING TRICKED!

LaurenE147
Anakin specifically said that Obi-Wan was like a father to him. NOT PALPATINE!!!!!!!!

peluffo
That's what the kid feels, but the real role is covered by this parental figure who is supervising the boy, giving him support and guidance ("your guidance, more than my patience"... ring a bell??) not by the "educational mentor" that is Obi Wan.
read some psichology book about grown up and maturity. You may see it clearer then.
Besides, the kind of relationship that they SHOW onscreen teach us about the level of comunication that THEY have, and I take my bet about that they are very close, and nobody cares or notes this. Not even ObiWan.

By the way, the freaking kid never had a Father, then, why are you so overconfident about the BS that he says????

LaurenE147
but he says that Obi-Wan is like his father. Palpatine is just a guy who helps him occasionally. You can have a father and a guide, too.

peluffo
Yes, but this is HIS opinion. If you SEE from outside the mechanic of his relations, you will notice that Palpatine is carefully and intentionally fullfilling the holes that ObiWans left.
And we have ONLY hints from canon sources, and they indicates that Palpy will "follow his career with great interest" as is stated at the end of TPM, and 10 years after, a meeting between Ani and Palpy which reveals that they were building a relationship, and that this relationship is deeply based on a kind of parenthood FROM palpy TO the kid, even when he never HAD a father, so he can't judge it for himself.

LaurenE147
But you're saying that Anakin turns because he views Palpatine as a father figure. If he doesn't view Palpy as a father, even if he is wrong, that still would have no bearing on his turning

peluffo
WHERE exactly I said this?confused













"The hability to speak doesn't mean intelligence"

LaurenE147
You implied that Anakin trusted him because he thought of him as a father.

peluffo
I NEVER POSTED THAT!confused roll eyes (sarcastic)
2 things: you are misunderstanding what I'm tring to say
OR: I'm posting it wrong all the way, and this is an language issue.

Forget what anakin thinks or feel about palpy. He can't know. He never had a REAL father. I'm talking about what PALPATINE is doing with the kid. You're taking the knife from the wrong end.

LaurenE147
You're contradicting yourself.

Ush! Gundy! Rex! Somebody back me up here. But only if you back me up.

peluffo
You are the one who is assuming things that I haven't written. Please, READ what I've said instead of seeing implied things that don't exist.






BTW, "I've given up trying to argue with you"

GordonSkywalker
I understand what peluffo is saying. It makes perfect sense to me. Regardless of how Anakin regards Obi-Wan, the role of fatherhood is being played out by the manipulative Palpatine! At this stage,I don't believe Anakin fully realises the differences in the two men who are teaching him. And we all must surely see that Obi-Wan is not old enough to be a "father figure" to the boy the way Palpatine clearly is! And he is more compliementary of the boy than Obi-Wan is. In other words, Anakin feels he is being "stifled" or "held back" by his master,so he more than appreciates being told his good qualities by the Supreme Chanecellor. Bottom line: Anakin Skywalker wants to be liked/ He seeks approval.

Julie
I think Palpy probably pep talked a bit with young Anakin

Captain REX
Peluffo would be great in the Debate Forum. And he probably writes great persuasive essays... big grin

I agree with most of Pel's ideas. Palpy probably has been whispering in Anakin's ear the last 10 years, and it's beginning to take influence on the young guy's mind. Especially since it's 10 of the most important years in a young man's life, as Pel pointed out.

Ushgarak
Retrospectively taking sides against Lauren, Rex? I am surprised. Are you still in contact with her?

Captain REX
Not really. Sent a few e-mails back and forth, but the link died. sad

Ushgarak
A shame.

Member.
palpatine slowly luring anakin into his grasp=fact.

Captain REX
No=duh.

Julie
ha

Julie
any other wise comments there Rex?

Captain REX
Nope! Nothin in my noggin as of now. big grin

queeq
Not very on topic, lads.

Captain REX
Well, we've kinda talked this one to death already...

No doubt Palpy will put his final plans for spoiling Anakin's mind in action in Ep III.

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