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who wins?

Good Fight (As long as its classic Onslaught)

Ill say Onslaught takes this 7/10

Onslaught without Franklin - Darksied 9.8/10

With Franklin ... dunno

Onslaught takes this. I don't see the Omega Effect being able to effect him. And considering what he did to Juggernaut I think he could rip a few things out of Darkseid as well.

Darksied easily.

Kirby Darkseid or McDonalds' I just got whupped by Superman Darkseid?

Taking the sum total of power display from DS and from OS, I have to go with DS. OS had the potential to be far beyond DS or any other supervillian. But he got beaten with Punches. And DS is far above the hulk in the strength Dep. A good crack from DS would end the fight as easily as the hulk did.

If you take the sum of Onslaught's powers, DS has each of them beat in thier own dept. DS has greater Tp than Prof X or Xman has shown. HE has show superior Tk than Xman when he moved planets across galaxies. His energy powers are greater than magneto's. The only one who has him beat his franklin's reality powers. But it's not enough to over come DS.

Okay once DS breaks his armor like hulk did then what? Then your left with Onslaught in his pure Psionic Form.

Originally posted by Starhawk
Okay once DS breaks his armor like hulk did then what? Then your left with Onslaught in his pure Psionic Form.
I already explained that DS TP is far superior to xaviers. So it wouldn't be hard for him to capture, trap or exile the psionic form. and the OE works on energy as well

If Onslaught is at full potential, then he would win. If he is written at the level he was when he "died", then he loses.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Taking the sum total of power display from DS and from OS, I have to go with DS. OS had the potential to be far beyond DS or any other supervillian. But he got beaten with Punches. And DS is far above the hulk in the strength Dep. A good crack from DS would end the fight as easily as the hulk did. DS has more brute strength then mindless Hulk?

hmmm, thats new.

I think Onslaught is to strong for the OE, in the seires they said in his psionic form there was nothing that could be done other then the teams sacrificing themselves.

I don't see DS being able to override Onslaughts powers.

Originally posted by Galan007
DS has more brute strength then mindless Hulk?

hmmm, thats new.
yea dont u remember that time when Darkseid destroyed a asteroid double the size of earth with one punch? I think he had help with rocket springs or something.

Originally posted by Priest
yea dont u remember that time when Darkseid destroyed a asteroid double the size of earth with one punch? I think he had help with rocket springs or something.

Originally posted by Priest
yea dont u remember that time when Darkseid destroyed a asteroid double the size of earth with one punch? I think he had help with rocket springs or something.
I do remember that Kirby's DS was nearly as powerful as Galactus. And that DS draws his strength from the OE. I also remember DS handily beating a PC SUPERMAN physically. which is far superior to a mindless hulk. And since there is only one DS, no precrisis, then yes, he is stronger than the hulk.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I do remember that Kirby's DS was nearly as powerful as Galactus. And that DS draws his strength from the OE. I also remember DS handily beating a PC SUPERMAN physically. which is far superior to a mindless hulk. And since there is only one DS, no precrisis, then yes, he is stronger than the hulk. Current DS is not physically stronger then Mindless Hulk in any way, shape, or form.

Originally posted by Starhawk
I think Onslaught is to strong for the OE, in the seires they said in his psionic form there was nothing that could be done other then the teams sacrificing themselves.

I don't see DS being able to override Onslaughts powers.

Could thanos beat Onslaught?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I do remember that Kirby's DS was nearly as powerful as Galactus.
he not as powefull as galactus. when DS is destroying galaxies with gestures, let me know.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And that DS draws his strength from the OE. I also remember DS handily beating a PC SUPERMAN physically. which is far superior to a mindless hulk. And since there is only one DS, no precrisis, then yes, he is stronger than the hulk.
so the same guy that beats PC superman, get his ass handed to him by current Superman, and Doomsday?

Originally posted by Galan007
Current DS is not physically stronger then Mindless Hulk in any way, shape, or form.

ANd exactly how powerful is current DS? In 52, the new gods have been shown to be vastly superior to thier preivous incarnations. DS has yet to be seen in any displays of power. but if the other NG's are any indication, one would assume that they are going back to thier kirby glory days. am I correct in this?

Originally posted by Priest

so the same guy that beats PC superman, get his ass handed to him by current Superman, and Doomsday?


Apparently those were 'Avatars' , basically the cheap way of keeping Thanos Bad-ass.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
ANd exactly how powerful is current DS? In 52, the new gods have been shown to be vastly superior to thier preivous incarnations. DS has yet to be seen in any displays of power. but if the other NG's are any indication, one would assume that they are going back to thier kirby glory days. am I correct in this? Who knows what the writers "might do"?

As of right now, as far as brute strength goes...

Mindless Hulk>>Current DS

Originally posted by Galan007
Who knows what the writers "might do"?

As of right now as far as brute strength goes...

Mindless Hulk>>Current DS

yep

Originally posted by Priest
he not as powefull as galactus. when DS is destroying galaxies with gestures, let me know.


so the same guy that beats PC superman, get his ass handed to him by current Superman, and Doomsday?


The doomsday thing was an avatar from what I know, and no one beats superman at DC. including DS. I dont' count that. It'll probably retconned with all the other super fiascos. And DS was created by kirby as was Galactus, and he created them to be equals. You didn't know that?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And DS was created by kirby as was Galactus, and he created them to be equals. You didn't know that?
Based on feats, they are cleally not equal.
Odin feats are even greater than DS feats.

Originally posted by Priest
Based on feats, they are cleally not equal.
Odin feats are even greater than DS feats.

Debatable. DS in the great Darkness Saga was bad assed. And he was said to be a weak version of his younger self. DS also completely kicked the precrisis jla's ass. I dont' know if even odin had that kind of power. Also DS survived crisis. He also hurt the AM. A Multi versal threat. DS also absorbed the powers of THOUSANDS of gods. As well as punking the lords of chaos and order and the guardians not even wanting to fight him. So exactly what has Odin done that is greater? Ares with the God wave was able to even over come the power of Takion, avatar of the source. DS was able to completely halt Ares assault, Albiet it for a moment. WHen DS fought Highfather, They shook the universe and the cosmos shook from thier power. Yugah Khan, a being who's power rival's Galactus himself, said that no one had the power to defeat him except his son, DS. So yeah, when did Odin's feats start trumping DS? I don't remember that.

Why are we debating anything other then current DS?

Since it wasn't specified otherwise, we can only assume that this is current DS

Originally posted by Galan007
Why are we debating anything other then current DS?

Since it wasn't specified otherwise, we can only assume that this is current DS

Who knows what current DS is? Since IC, the new Gods that have been seen have been as powerful or even more than thier precrisis days. And with all the retconning and DS avatars running around, I gotta go by when I'm for certain it was DS fighting and not an avatar.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
So yeah, when did Odin's feats start trumping DS? I don't remember that.

destroying ,remaking galaxies, causing the multiverse to shake, creating galaxies. stuff like that.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Who knows what current DS is? Since IC, the new Gods that have been seen have been as powerful or even more than thier precrisis days. And with all the retconning and DS avatars running around, I gotta go by when I'm for certain it was DS fighting and not an avatar. Yeah, but comparing PC characters to any other characters isn't very fair, don't you think?

I mean thats like comparing PC Superman (The guy who sneezed and destroyed a Galaxy.) To current Superman who is honsetly nowhere near that powerlevel these days...

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Who knows what current DS is? Since IC, the new Gods that have been seen have been as powerful or even more than thier precrisis days. And with all the retconning and DS avatars running around, I gotta go by when I'm for certain it was DS fighting and not an avatar.
so u base ur arguements on assumpitons of power then wat is displayed on pannel?

Originally posted by Priest
destroying ,remaking galaxies, causing the multiverse to shake, creating galaxies. stuff like that.

THat doesn't put him above DS.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
THat doesn't put him above DS.
yeah, when the hell has DS showed enough raw power to destroy numbers of galaxies in a fight?

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, but comparing PC characters to any other characters isn't very fair, don't you think?

I mean thats like comparing PC Superman (The guy who sneezed and destroyed a Galaxy.) To current Superman who is honsetly nowhere near that powerlevel these days...

And comparing post loeb DS isn't fair either. DS has always been shown to be a universal threat and very dangerous until loeb. Superman has always needed help with DS. And DS has always been shown beating the crap out of Superman. It just amazes me how much people can cal PIS or CIS except when they dont' think the character should win. it's pure pic for Superman to be able to beat DS when the same DS was able to stop Ares and Beat PC superman.

Originally posted by Priest
yeah, when the hell has DS showed enough raw power to destroy numbers of galaxies in a fight?

When has Onslaught ?

Originally posted by Priest
so u base ur arguements on assumpitons of power then wat is displayed on pannel?

I base my arguments off of what is displayed. or did you see me mention several things that DS has done.

Remember this is current DS though, and what is he going to do to beat Onslaught?

I don't see any reason why OE wouldn't effect Onslaught. I mean Darkseid is more powerful than him. Onslaught was strong, but also he had good showing beating MU and also low showings (getting cracked by Hulk, which isn't really what happened, Onslaught let him do it)...I'll say Darkseid.

Originally posted by Galan007
Remember this is current DS though, and what is he going to do to beat Onslaught?

And exactly what is current DS? do you know? DS from what I remember absorbed the power of thousands of pantheonsans was uber. DS was able to freeze Ares with the GODWAVE. He could do that to Onslaught who doesn't have nearly the power fo the Godwave. DS for the win.

Originally posted by grey fox
When has Onslaught ?
never
i was talking about Odin. nvrbeenwthagirl is just blowing up Darkseids powers, i'm just comparing Darkseid power to other characters like galactus and odin.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And exactly what is current DS? do you know? DS from what I remember absorbed the power of thousands of pantheonsans was uber. DS was able to freeze Ares with the GODWAVE. He could do that to Onslaught who doesn't have nearly the power fo the Godwave. DS for the win. Well Onslaught /w/ Franklyn would put him around Celestial level in power...... Im not saying Onslaught takes all the wins, but I think he does take some...

Originally posted by Priest
yeah, when the hell has DS showed enough raw power to destroy numbers of galaxies in a fight?

When he hurt the multiversal power the anitmonitor, when he was able to stop the Universal threat in Ares. When he shook the cosmos from an entire other dimension fighting high father. When he was able to punk the guardians who didn't want a fight with him. Those same gaurdians who have more power than the entire GL corps. yeah, he's got the power.

I don't know how to rate darkseid anymore. So he's the same guy that was able to hurt anti-moriter or however you spell his name, and beat down pre-crisis jla. but currently he hasn't shown anything close to that level. Sooooooooo did he somehow lose power? anyway since i don't know what the OE would do to Onslaught since he's pure psionic power and all. But I don't know if that would be enough to stay the OE. So i'm going to say Darkseid right now. on a side note Phonix still kicks DS's but.

Originally posted by jasofisc
I don't know how to rate darkseid anymore. So he's the same guy that was able to hurt anti-moriter or however you spell his name, and beat down pre-crisis jla. but currently he hasn't shown anything close to that level. Sooooooooo did he somehow lose power? anyway since i don't know what the OE would do to Onslaught since he's pure psionic power and all. But I don't know if that would be enough to stay the OE. So i'm going to say Darkseid right now. on a side note Phonix still kicks DS's but.
Well, PC time were a while ago....

So maybe DS is just getting old!

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
When he hurt the multiversal power the anitmonitor Thats not very impressive....

Supergirl managed to nearly destroy AM with physical attacks alone. AM himself acknowledges this fact:

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/4631/antimonitorig7.th.png

Did I miss someting?? Since when is Onslaught a match for Darkseid?

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Did I miss someting?? Since when is Onslaught a match for Darkseid? Never....Onslaught is no match for him...But don't sweat it, not every people seen his true power, just when he got beaten by Supes.

Originally posted by Galan007
Thats not very impressive....

Supergirl managed to nearly destroy AM with physical attacks alone. AM himself acknowledges this fact:

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/4631/antimonitorig7.th.png
but then again he took punches and energy blasts from 50 dcu heroes including E-1 and E- 2 Superman and wasn't even fazed.

I think Supergirl's fight with him is s just the writer giving Supergirl a very good showing before she dies.

Kinda like the Superboy Superboy Prime fight in Infinite Crsis #6

Originally posted by Devil Lance
but then again he took punches and energy blasts from 50 dcu heroes including E-1 and E- 2 Superman and wasn't even fazed.

I think Supergirl's fight with him is s just the writer giving Supergirl a very good showing before she dies.

Kinda like the Superboy Superboy Prime fight in Infinite Crsis #6 Yeah I agree, but she still did it, PIS or not

Originally posted by Devil Lance
but then again he took punches and energy blasts from 50 dcu heroes including E-1 and E- 2 Superman and wasn't even fazed.

I think Supergirl's fight with him is s just the writer giving Supergirl a very good showing before she dies.

Kinda like the Superboy Superboy Prime fight in Infinite Crsis #6 Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah I agree, but she still did it, PIS or not

Ok just to clarify...

Supergirl hurt AM BEFORE he absorbed the power from the Anti-Matter Universe. And the fight with all the heroes happened AFTER. However, it should be noted that other than the Anti-Matter Universe, every universe he destroyed he destroyed with tech, so he wasn't really a multiversal threat on his own. Just like Reed Richards isn't a multiversal threat with out the Ultimate Nullifier or other device. (Also, he took down the Universe's one by one with tech, so even with it he wasn't really a multiversal threat)

And for the record, DS hurt a SEVERELY weakened AM. He had just been through an ordeal with the Spectre, and before that he used all his power to get to he beginning of time. So DS hurting him isn't really anymore impressive than Thor driving off Galactus with a Godblast.

Originally posted by Galan007
Thats not very impressive....

Supergirl managed to nearly destroy AM with physical attacks alone. AM himself acknowledges this fact:

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/4631/antimonitorig7.th.png

I guess your down playing the fact that it was just the armor she was hurting, also the fact that a precrisis Krytonian is nothing to be trifled with. You act as if it was current supergirl who managed to hurt the AM.please. give me a break.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok just to clarify...

Supergirl hurt AM BEFORE he absorbed the power from the Anti-Matter Universe. And the fight with all the heroes happened AFTER. However, it should be noted that other than the Anti-Matter Universe, every universe he destroyed he destroyed with tech, so he wasn't really a multiversal threat on his own. Just like Reed Richards isn't a multiversal threat with out the Ultimate Nullifier or other device. (Also, he took down the Universe's one by one with tech, so even with it he wasn't really a multiversal threat)

And for the record, DS hurt a SEVERELY weakened AM. He had just been through an ordeal with the Spectre, and before that he used all his power to get to he beginning of time. So DS hurting him isn't really anymore impressive than Thor driving off Galactus with a Godblast.

Driving off Galactus is very impressive to me.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I guess your down playing the fact that it was just the armor she was hurting, also the fact that a precrisis Krytonian is nothing to be trifled with. You act as if it was current supergirl who managed to hurt the AM.please. give me a break. Supergirl didnt just destroy his shell, she nearly destroyed AM himself, he even confirmed that much..

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Driving off Galactus is very impressive to me.
Impressive yes. However, if your going to use the comparison, Thor nearly destroyed Galactus. DS only HURT the Anti Monitor(and Supes was knocking around AM too).

Originally posted by Galan007
Supergirl didnt just destroy his shell, she nearly destroyed AM himself, he even confirmed that much..

And then she died.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Impressive yes. However, if your going to use the comparison, Thor nearly destroyed Galactus. DS only HURT the Anti Monitor(and Supes was knocking around AM too).



E-2 was only bale to hurt superman after

Dr. Light drained enrgy from a white dwarf star in the anti matter universe, Alexander luthor drained anti matter enrgy from him, and Negative Woman drained energy from him all at the same tgime.

Only after that was superman able to hurt anti mniter

Originally posted by darthgoober
Impressive yes. However, if your going to use the comparison, Thor nearly destroyed Galactus. DS only HURT the Anti Monitor(and Supes was knocking around AM too).

Ididn't use the comparison, you brought it up. But ur trying to downplay DS power. Let's see Onslaught Stop the Godwave, Shake the cosmos in a fight with highfather. Let's see onslaught swap planets around the galaxy with pure TK. Then Onslaught has a prayer of winning this fight.

Originally posted by Devil Lance


E-2 was only bale to hurt superman after

Dr. Light drained enrgy from a white dwarf star in the anti matter universe, Alexander luthor drained anti matter enrgy from him, and Negative Woman drained energy from him all at the same tgime.

Only after that was superman able to hurt anti mniter
Yes but unless I'm mistaken, DS blasted him after they did all that stuff as well.

Originally posted by Priest
so u base ur arguements on assumpitons of power then wat is displayed on pannel?

Why not people do it for galactus all the time.

Originally posted by Supreme being
Why not people do it for galactus all the time.
Galactus destroyed the universe on pannel

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Ididn't use the comparison, you brought it up. But ur trying to downplay DS power. Let's see Onslaught Stop the Godwave, Shake the cosmos in a fight with highfather. Let's see onslaught swap planets around the galaxy with pure TK. Then Onslaught has a prayer of winning this fight.
I'm not trying to downplay DS's power, I'm simply pointing out the power that AM was at when DS hurt him. I've made no predictions for this fight, and I'm not likely to because I consider Onslaught crap writing at it's finest. His power was all over the place, so it's actually kinda hard to judge.

But you should rally stop with the whole Godwave feat. He didn't really stop the Godwave, he froze time. There's a big difference. Theoretically, someone with the time gem could do the same thing.

Originally posted by Priest
Galactus destroyed the universe on pannel


What the 616 universe cause last time i checked it was still in tact?

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm not trying to downplay DS's power, I'm simply pointing out the power that AM was at when DS hurt him. I've made no predictions for this fight, and I'm not likely to because I consider Onslaught crap writing at it's finest. His power was all over the place, so it's actually kinda hard to judge.

But you should rally stop with the whole Godwave feat. He didn't really stop the Godwave, he froze time. There's a big difference. Theoretically, someone with the time gem could do the same thing.

That is not what he did. what he did was harden space AND time around ares. And someone wielding the god wave has considerable power over those same elements. which means DS had to have considerable power to actually hold ares for as long as he did. thanks but i'll continue to use the god wave becuz it was a great feat. as far as the time gem goes, when someone using the time gem freezes the phoenix force, then i'll say it's the same thing.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That is not what he did. what he did was harden space AND time around ares. And someone wielding the god wave has considerable power over those same elements. which means DS had to have considerable power to actually hold ares for as long as he did. thanks but i'll continue to use the god wave becuz it was a great feat. as far as the time gem goes, when someone using the time gem freezes the phoenix force, then i'll say it's the same thing.
Unless Ares activly fought against the time freeze, it's still not really overpowering him. And I Rune DID stop time with the time gem, so that means that he probably did do it to the Phoenix, since it was on Earth(but I'm not for sure if she was alive at the time).

And by the way, Onslaught BEAT Phoenix.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Unless Ares activly fought against the time freeze, it's still not really overpowering him. And I Rune DID stop time with the time gem, so that means that he probably did do it to the Phoenix, since it was on Earth(but I'm not for sure if she was alive at the time).

And by the way, Onslaught BEAT Phoenix.


As you are aware, Ares was already actively advancing. Being held back or slowed by the awesome power of Takion. Then as takion said that even he wouldn't be able to hold Ares, DS held Ares. Ares was already in momentum, using his infinite might to push against The power of the source itself. So ARes was already pushing. ANd as ares had the power of the God wave, which grants every living super being and God thier powers, he had power over time and space as well. As many many super beings have those powers, granted by the God wave.

ANd it really amazes me that you can ask me a question about inferred power and then make a statement about something probably happening. shame on you.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
As you are aware, Ares was already actively advancing. Being held back or slowed by the awesome power of Takion. Then as takion said that even he wouldn't be able to hold Ares, DS held Ares. Ares was already in momentum, using his infinite might to push against The power of the source itself. So ARes was already pushing. ANd as ares had the power of the God wave, which grants every living super being and God thier powers, he had power over time and space as well. As many many super beings have those powers, granted by the God wave.

ANd it really amazes me that you can ask me a question about inferred power and then make a statement about something probably happening. shame on you.
As I said, I'm not sure if Phoenix was alive at the time, but IF she was, then she was frozen in time like everyone else.

Anyway...
Stopping time is NOT overpowering someone, unless they have the ability to affect time also, and they are ACTIVELY seeking to stop you from doing so.

So I ask, at what point in all of this had Ares actually demonstrated a mastery over time?(I'll admit that he may have, i just don't ever remember coming across that).

When exactly did Ares ACTIVELY seek to stop the time freeze itself?

A good Darkseid should win, I almost feel sorry (almost) for the poor showing they gave him losing against Superman, right now he is nothing but a chump against top tier characters. Still, even there, Onslaught loses; no Franklin, no win.