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After dismanteling the first team of Avengers line-up, (see previous entry), it's time to call in some serious reinforcements...the second wave of Avengers show up and find a very angry Doomsday standing in the middle of their fallen comrades....and Doomsday is re-energized and fresh as a spring daisy...the new lineup is as follows...

1. Thor
2. Sersi
3. Sub-mariner (fresh out of water)
4. Hercules
5. Sentry
6. Quasar
7. Hulk (grey-skinned version)
8. Dr. Druid
9. War-Machine
10. Luke Cage

Will Doomsday finally go down with this second wave of powerful Avengers facing him???

you should include captain marvel/photon/now pulsar for the avengers.

Battle field removal is still their best bet. I just don't see them being albe to do something to Doomsday that hasn't been done before.

Doomsday is either teleported to another dimension or simply thrown far from earth.

Avengers win, if they find a way of stopping him evolving (dc have some really stupid ideas now and then - "Let's make a character who can never die, who has no interesting character development and constantly evolves so that we can't use the same plot device twice"

Originally posted by Pepito
Avengers win, if they find a way of stopping him evolving (dc have some really stupid ideas now and then - "Let's make a character who can never die, who has no interesting character development and constantly evolves so that we can't use the same plot device twice"
You should thank Marvel for that idea.

I didn't want to add Photon or Gilgamesh or anymore REALLY powerful heroes...I didn't want to make an Avengers team that was TOO powerful and I wanted to give Doomsday a good chance...

Avengers wins, Seris, Thor, Sentry to much raw power. Seris will turn Doomsday into cake for Thor's return .

Originally posted by The Ion
You should thank Marvel for that idea. What character are you talking about?

Originally posted by brainchild81
What character are you talking about?
The Fury

now i remember

Originally posted by The Ion
The Fury Never heard of him. Guess I should be thankful.

still up for debate without bfr. could their combination of physical attacks wear him down? maybe . . . would their energy attacks be enough? doubtful, considering what he's already faced (imperiex, omega beams, gl rings)

they'd take dos dd. h/p? hmm . . . i don't know. a bunch would die quickly, and h/p was evolving as the fight went on.

ultimate? again, he fought 100's of superman level gogs for years and years. i'm not sure even this group puts that one down. but it's all speculation as there wasn't enough of the ultimate shown.

He's faced the OE, GL rings, Imperix...Energy? No go.

He's faced Superman, Orion, Martian Manhunter, Wonderwoman...Physical? No go.

Doomsday-A walking plot device, but when he does it, its cool.

Originally posted by leonidas
ultimate? again, he fought 100's of superman level gogs for years and years. i'm not sure even this group puts that one down. but it's all speculation as there wasn't enough of the ultimate shown.
True there isn't enough shown but I would think spending a century casually putting down countless Superman level individuals would put him safely beyond herald level. Not to mention how he was wading through all those Imperiex probes when Superman was struggling with one. Doomsday is seriously incredible the more you think about him.

He's actually one person I could buy being 100x better than Superman/Thor.

Originally posted by The Ion
True there isn't enough shown but I would think spending a century casually putting down countless Superman level individuals would put him safely beyond herald level. Not to mention how he was wading through all those Imperiex probes when Superman was struggling with one. Doomsday is seriously incredible the more you think about him.

He's actually one person I could buy being 100x better than Superman/Thor.

Amen. Amen indeed.

Doomsday, the only person who has the right to hurt Darkseid!

Originally posted by The Ion
The Fury

Yeah but he's not exactly a mainstream character.

Originally posted by Pepito
Yeah but he's not exactly a mainstream character.
So that makes Doomsday less of a copycat character? Regardless, I wouldn't call Doomsday mainstream either but maybe we have different definitions of mainstream.

Originally posted by The Ion
So that makes Doomsday less of a copycat character? Regardless, I wouldn't call Doomsday mainstream either but maybe we have different definitions of mainstream.

Doomsday has a listing on classicmarvel (which only shows major dc characters) and appears in the animated series (not that i'm a fan). I've never seen a comic with Fury in it and he does not appear on classicmarvel. Doomsday is still a copycat character but my point was that dc chose to make him an important character so it looks odd if he never reappears. He, unlike Fury, has to be shown now and again so he cannot be ended by death and he can't be just forgotten about. Plus each time he appears he's more powerful than the last so eventually they either upgrade him a tiny bit each time he appears lest he be omnipotent in 4 more issues, he loses his powers, he's not as unkillable as thought or yet again there's a stupid plot device. If marvel had made fury a major character, they would have blundered too

Originally posted by Pepito
Doomsday has a listing on classicmarvel (which only shows major dc characters) and appears in the animated series (not that i'm a fan). I've never seen a comic with Fury in it and he does not appear on classicmarvel.
Stop right there. I just went to Classic Marvel and found listings for such mainstream DC characters as Alchemist, Blok, and Catspaw.

The Fury last appeared in a late 2004 Uncanny X-Men arc and at Marvel it doesn't get more mainstream than Uncanny X-Men. However I would say mainstream is a character that anyone, not just comic fans, could tell you about and theres only a handful of them.

Originally posted by The Ion
Stop right there. I just went to Classic Marvel and found listings for such mainstream DC characters as Alchemist, Blok, and Catspaw.

The Fury last appeared in a late 2004 Uncanny X-Men arc and at Marvel it doesn't get more mainstream than Uncanny X-Men. However I would say mainstream is a character that anyone, not just comic fans, could tell you about and theres only a handful of them.

If classicmarvel doesn't list an extremely powerful and unique character then it is probably not as well-known as Doomsday. The fact that evryone said who's The Fury and that the thread is not evengers vs fury kind of gives you a clue. Plus Fury could be and was decommissioned and appeared in an alternate universe and so (coming back to the main point, that dc was stupid to make an unkillable and adapting character AND make him important and basically irremoveable, which you haven't really challenged) marvel writers have not created a Doomsday like character who has to come back, dc writers are stuck with him unless they decide on another huge retcon.

Originally posted by Comicbook_kid
After dismanteling the first team of Avengers line-up, (see previous entry), it's time to call in some serious reinforcements...the second wave of Avengers show up and find a very angry Doomsday standing in the middle of their fallen comrades....and Doomsday is re-energized and fresh as a spring daisy...the new lineup is as follows...

1. Thor
2. Sersi
3. Sub-mariner (fresh out of water)
4. Hercules
5. Sentry
6. Quasar
7. Hulk (grey-skinned version)
8. Dr. Druid
9. War-Machine
10. Luke Cage

Will Doomsday finally go down with this second wave of powerful Avengers facing him???

thor or hercules alone would give him problems, as a team doomsday would get recked.

Originally posted by Pepito
If classicmarvel doesn't list an extremely powerful and unique character then it is probably not as well-known as Doomsday.
So? Classic Marvel also lists Blok and Catspaw as supposedly well known characters. I'm a DC fan and I couldn't tell you squat about who they are. That's the first I've heard of them. Let's make a Captain America Vs Catspaw thread and watch as it either A)Gets no replies or B)Watch as everyone asks who Catspaw is.

Originally posted by Pepito
The fact that evryone said who's The Fury and that the thread is not evengers vs fury kind of gives you a clue.
Brainchild now classifies as everyone? Outavodka says he remembers him so I guess everyone knows who The Fury is? You have just as much support as I do.

Originally posted by Pepito
Plus Fury could be and was decommissioned and appeared in an alternate universe and so (coming back to the main point, that dc was stupid to make an unkillable and adapting character AND make him important and basically irremoveable, which you haven't really challenged) marvel writers have not created a Doomsday like character who has to come back, dc writers are stuck with him unless they decide on another huge retcon.
Doomsday was left at the end of time and floating in space. The Fury got shutdown by Marvel Girl (Rachel) and he he grew another CPU (lol) so they tossed him a black hole. Guess he's floating in space too, ready to come back whenever the writer wants him too.

Plus, how are they stuck with him? There's no part in any story or main point in any Superman comic that says Doomsday has to appear every so often. Let's look at Doomsday's storylines since his introduction.

Death of Superman - 1992
Hunter/Prey - 1994
Doomsday Wars - 1998

Doomsday Appearances

Our Worlds At War - 2001
Gog Wars - 2005

Wow, 5 whole storylines in 15 years. It's pretty clear this uber elite, popular, mainstream DC juggernaut is just hopping all over the DCU. Poor Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison and Kurt Busiek are going to have to write this obvious DC mainstay in all their Superman stories in 2006.

none of the guys that are in the avengers would give Doomsday a problem less they have magic or stuff like that or they can teleport him away.

Originally posted by spideycarnage
thor or hercules alone would give him problems, as a team doomsday would get recked.

The same Doomsday that deafeated the league with Orion, Wonderwoman, Martian Manhunter, Kyle Rayner, Plastic Man, Flash and Steel?

Originally posted by The Ion
True there isn't enough shown but I would think spending a century casually putting down countless Superman level individuals would put him safely beyond herald level. Not to mention how he was wading through all those Imperiex probes when Superman was struggling with one. Doomsday is seriously incredible the more you think about him.

He's actually one person I could buy being 100x better than Superman/Thor.



you may well be right. he did have the superman corps with him when he was fighting the gogs, though. not that it diminishes what he did really.

i think the ultimate would beat these guys, but sentry is still a slight unknown and may prove well above herald himself. also i'm not sure how he'd fare if he were ported into the sun, or a black hole. hence my small reservations. the team is powerful and versatile. they may have a way to trap or remove him. purely physical contest? i think dd would beat them.

This Avengers team wins.

Originally posted by olympian
This Avengers team wins.

Why?

Because i said so.

And because its too much raw power to handle.

Originally posted by olympian
Because i said so.

And because its too much raw power to handle.

that's the thing -- what do they have to offer that hasn't already been done -- even more -- to dd? strength? 100's of supes level beings. power? omega effect. imperiex. even the aegis armor.

they may be able to transport him away, and i'm not sure how he could get back, but if they fought him power for power to a ko, i don't see how they do it.

Sersi will amp herself to unknow levels, Thor powers are greater than superman and wonder woman, Sentry is on par with a Silver Surfer in power. Avengers have more raw power than the JLA that fought doomsday, Avengers win 8/10

Thors versability even in concussive blasts its huge. Quasar cosmically speaking its a huge beast. Sersi its another.

I honestly belive the Jla that fought him for example falls a bit short. They dont have an equivelent for Thor or a Sersi in theyr team. Add Sentry whose powerlevels while not exactly static are for what has been shown so far above the herald level (of course if we use statements its higher, but lets concead) and you have quite the different and versatible cosmic roast.

This is not just a Green Lantern and a Superman being the major guns. Its Quasar that has crazy consistence feats while Kyle 80% of the times acted as a rookie.

Its Thor who is more powerful than Superman, alot more versatible, magic and as strong.

Its Sentry who is also top dog so far, either in strenght and power.

Its Hercules as equally strong, skilled and durable.

Its Sersi that beats in power practically the rest of the Jla line up that has gone against Doomsday. Let it be MM, AQ, WW, Atom, Orion without the Ale, Batman, Flash.

And you still have others to buy time.

Now, for Doomsday not to feel bad, ill concead that Luke Cage will die.

Originally posted by The Ion
So? Classic Marvel also lists Blok and Catspaw as supposedly well known characters. I'm a DC fan and I couldn't tell you squat about who they are. That's the first I've heard of them. Let's make a Captain America Vs Catspaw thread and watch as it either A)Gets no replies or B)Watch as everyone asks who Catspaw is.
Brainchild now classifies as everyone? Outavodka says he remembers him so I guess everyone knows who The Fury is? You have just as much support as I do. Doomsday was left at the end of time and floating in space. The Fury got shutdown by Marvel Girl (Rachel) and he he grew another CPU (lol) so they tossed him a black hole. Guess he's floating in space too, ready to come back whenever the writer wants him too.

Plus, how are they stuck with him? There's no part in any story or main point in any Superman comic that says Doomsday has to appear every so often. Let's look at Doomsday's storylines since his introduction.

Death of Superman - 1992
Hunter/Prey - 1994
Doomsday Wars - 1998

Doomsday Appearances

Our Worlds At War - 2001
Gog Wars - 2005

Wow, 5 whole storylines in 15 years. It's pretty clear this uber elite, popular, mainstream DC juggernaut is just hopping all over the DCU. Poor Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison and Kurt Busiek are going to have to write this obvious DC mainstay in all their Superman stories in 2006.

No offence (actually a lot of offence), but your sarcastic rants aren't nearly as funny as you seem to assume. Doomsday is a major Superman enemy and if he is not definitely dead, he'll return in some form or another. You have to agree that Doomsday is more well-known than Fury.

Originally posted by Pepito
No offence (actually a lot of offence), but your sarcastic rants aren't nearly as funny as you seem to assume. Doomsday is a major Superman enemy and if he is not definitely dead, he'll return in some form or another. You have to agree that Doomsday is more well-known than Fury.
I'm not trying to be funny and no offense taken.

Doomsday isn't dead and neither is Fury. Regardless of how well known he is by comic book fans, that doesn't change the fact that he's a rip off. Hulk is a rip off of Solomon Grundy. You can't argue the other way around because Hulk is more well known than Grundy.

I just found it ridiculous you claim DC is stuck with a character who's made 5 appearances in a 15 year time span.

whos is Fury that your all talking about?

Originally posted by The Ion
I'm not trying to be funny and no offense taken.

Doomsday isn't dead and neither is Fury. Regardless of how well known he is by comic book fans, that doesn't change the fact that he's a rip off. Hulk is a rip off of Solomon Grundy. You can't argue the other way around because Hulk is more well known than Grundy.

I just found it ridiculous you claim DC is stuck with a character who's made 5 appearances in a 15 year time span.


I've always thought The Hulk was more of a rip-off of Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde.

Originally posted by TheKahn
I've always thought The Hulk was more of a rip-off of Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde.
Perhaps. However, Solomon was saying "Grundy Smash!" long before Hulk thought of the phrase.

And by quite a difference of years.

Originally posted by The Ion
I'm not trying to be funny and no offense taken.

Doomsday isn't dead and neither is Fury. Regardless of how well known he is by comic book fans, that doesn't change the fact that he's a rip off. Hulk is a rip off of Solomon Grundy. You can't argue the other way around because Hulk is more well known than Grundy.

I just found it ridiculous you claim DC is stuck with a character who's made 5 appearances in a 15 year time span.

I agree he's a rip off. Any unkillable non-cosmic character is a stupid idea but dc made Doomsday important (if not highly used) and so he can't just be discarded and cannot be killed either. Doomsday is like The Jackal from Spiderman in that he doesn't make a lot of appearances but is still a major character. Doomsday has to be put in at some point because he has nothing to lose and a lot of immunity to gain by attacking a dc hero.

They might have stolen the look for the early hulk (IIRC he was the grey hulk to start with and transformed at night) from Grundy but wasn't the personalility like a dark version of Banner?

Actually didn't The Fury appear after Doomsday?

Originally posted by Pepito
Actually didn't The Fury appear after Doomsday?
1982 so no.

Fair enough Doomsday is a ripoff. You've proven one minor point. Applause for the obviously ion-biased man

stop pussy-foting, ion -- can these avengers beat the ultimate?

Personally, I think if they work together as a team, they could pull off some kind of battlefield removal. After much death and sacrifice, they'd get rid of him.

If they all tried to jump him and got gung ho with their powers, it would be a curbstomp.

Originally posted by leonidas
stop pussy-foting, ion -- can these avengers beat the ultimate?
Via BFR

Via physical fight

Originally posted by Private Pion
The same Doomsday that deafeated the league with Orion, Wonderwoman, Martian Manhunter, Kyle Rayner, Plastic Man, Flash and Steel?

thor and hecules are smart, more stonger and have thousands of years of fighting experiance than the fighters above(not counting wonder woman)... thor can beat/tie supes, why wouldent he give doomsday trouble..ur giving doomsay way too much credit..and wats gonna stop thor using his hammer to poof away doomsday to a far dimention????

Originally posted by spideycarnage
thor and hecules are smart, more stonger and have thousands of years of fighting experiance than the fighters above(not counting wonder woman)... thor can beat/tie supes, why wouldent he give doomsday trouble..ur giving doomsay way too much credit..and wats gonna stop thor using his hammer to poof away doomsday to a far dimention????


Thats the point. The only way for just about anybody to beat Doomsday is through battle field removal. Physical strength and energy attacks are just about useless.

Lets not get into the Thor vs Superman thing, but even if he is, it doesn't matter because even Supes can't stand up to him anymore.

Thor's magic might be a little more help in this fight (I'm not sure about how much magic DD has faced before) but I just don't see this team having enough firepower to put Doomsday down.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Personally, I think if they work together as a team, they could pull off some kind of battlefield removal. After much death and sacrifice, they'd get rid of him.

If they all tried to jump him and got gung ho with their powers, it would be a curbstomp. They could pull off the removal w/no casualties.

Originally posted by brainchild81
They could pull off the removal w/no casualties.

It's possible, but not likely.

The Sentry's realistic holograms along with himself, Hercules, and Hulk keep Doomsday occupied long enough for Thor to contact the Avengers brain trust to formulate a game plan for the likes of Sersi/Thor/Quasar/Sentry and Co.

People are overrating Doosmday here.

Quasar alone has power to take on Supes.

Thor alone has power and strenght to take on Supes.

Sersi alone has more than power to take on Supes and if she increases her strenght like before shes above him in that regard.

Hercules alone has the strenght and stamina to take on Supes.

Sentry has strenght and power to take on Supes.

Supes, Orion and a rookie Green Lantern wer the biggest guns against HP Doomsday. MM while versatible its less stronger than all the above.

This Avengers team have at least three people above Superman in power. Three in his physical level. And they also have back up, including mystical. How they dont pack chances to take Doomsday even physically?

I obviously dont count LC for anything here.

Originally posted by olympian
People are overrating Doosmday here.

Quasar alone has power to take on Supes.

Thor alone has power and strenght to take on Supes.

Sersi alone has more than power to take on Supes and if she increases her strenght like before shes above him in that regard.

Hercules alone has the strenght and stamina to take on Supes.

Sentry has strenght and power to take on Supes.

Supes, Orion and a rookie Green Lantern wer the biggest guns against HP Doomsday. MM while versatible its less stronger than all the above.

This Avengers team have at least three people above Superman in power. Three in his physical level. And they also have back up, including mystical. How they dont pack chances to take Doomsday even physically?

I obviously dont count LC for anything here. Yep, but Supes upgraded by motherbox still wasn't enough to take on Doomsday. Even with the aid of others, including Darkseid Avatar, Waverider and the other energy being who was using world destroying blasts, they still had to last resort 'teleport to the end of time' battlefield removal win.

Originally posted by The Ion
True there isn't enough shown but I would think spending a century casually putting down countless Superman level individuals would put him safely beyond herald level. Not to mention how he was wading through all those Imperiex probes when Superman was struggling with one. Doomsday is seriously incredible the more you think about him.

He's actually one person I could buy being 100x better than Superman/Thor.

I think Superman is scary powerful already. I mean, most don't even think about it when reading a comic, but this is a guy that can move multiples of light speed, dip INSIDE of stars, fly through black holes, etc. He's truly amazing.

And he was SCARED of Doomsday, he just accepted the fact that he was the only one that could stop him.

Originally posted by The Ion
True there isn't enough shown but I would think spending a century casually putting down countless Superman level individuals would put him safely beyond herald level. Not to mention how he was wading through all those Imperiex probes when Superman was struggling with one. Doomsday is seriously incredible the more you think about him.

He's actually one person I could buy being 100x better than Superman/Thor. Not to mention some more powerful than Superman, including the energy guy on Calaton, Waverider Guardians of the Universe, and so on.

Originally posted by TheKahn

Originally posted by Juntai
I think Superman is scary powerful already. I mean, most don't even think about it when reading a comic, but this is a guy that can move multiples of light speed, dip INSIDE of stars, fly through black holes, etc. He's truly amazing.

And he was SCARED of Doomsday, he just accepted the fact that he was the only one that could stop him.

darkseid was ALSO afraid of him . . .

fear

That's 'cause 'Seid ain't nuthin' but a b**ch nowadays. He'll be scared of Batman soon

"Yep, but Supes upgraded by motherbox still wasn't enough to take on Doomsday."


Oly- Define *upgrade*. For me there isent anything suggesting he became physically enchanted. The upgrade was more in weaponry designed perhaps, to face Doomsday than anything.



- - -



"Even with the aid of others, including Darkseid Avatar, Waverider and the other energy being who was using world destroying blasts, they still had to last resort 'teleport to the end of time' battlefield removal win."


Oly- You mean Jobberseid? We all know the level hes been in years...Waverider is for me below in terms of power, than any of the powerful guns in this team. Let it be Thor/Quasar or Sersi.

Radiant had the problem of having already encountered and defeating Doomsday before. He was specifically evolved. You have here in this team, two who can perform planet busting stuff.

We just have more big guns here on Superman level and above. Something i dont think HP has encountered when facing the ones above mentioned.

Originally posted by olympian
"Yep, but Supes upgraded by motherbox still wasn't enough to take on Doomsday."


Oly- Define *upgrade*. For me there isent anything suggesting he became physically enchanted. The upgrade was more in weaponry to figth Doomsday than anything.


- - -


"Even with the aid of others, including Darkseid Avatar, Waverider and the other energy being who was using world destroying blasts, they still had to last resort 'teleport to the end of time' battlefield removal win."


Oly- You mean Jobberseid? We all know the level hes been in years...Waverider is for me below in terms of power, than any of the powerful guns in this team. Let it be Thor/Quasar or Sersy.

Radiant had the infortunance of having already encountered and defeating Doomsday before. He was specifically evolved. You have here in this team, two who can perform planet busting stuff.

We just have more big guns here on Superman level and above. Something i dont think HP has encountered when facing the ones above mentioned. Well, it was just an Avatar of Darkseid, not actually him. And Waverider is like Silver Surfer with time powers, and Radiant was a badass energy being.

Originally posted by leonidas
darkseid was ALSO afraid of him . . .

fear Yeah, but it wasn't him, it was an avatar.

What feats does Waverider has? Other than his time powers.

Originally posted by olympian
What feats does Waverider has? Other than his time powers. Most feats he's shown are relative to them in one form or another. I can't recall all of them offhand, as the character hasn't really been used but a couple of time since the mid nintetys.

However, a small piece of his being created Extant who help cause Zero Hour. Extant decimated the entire JSA, killing most of them. And he only had a piece of Waverider's power.

He can read the entire history of any creature, he's done time stops, dimension hops, teleportation, he can mimick Flash-like superspeed with it. He can shoot energy blasts. Blah.