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religion is evil end of discussion

.......So saith the god???

My choice was not there.


6. All things are both Good and Evil.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
My choice was not there.


6. All things are both Good and Evil.

my bad

Not all religions are evil, but as a whole, we would be better off without religion.

Without religion, the September 11 attacks would never have happened, because no one would be Muslim.

Think about that...

Religions are different then beliefs....Nothing wrong with beliefs or spiritual matters, but religions are a culminating, malignant cancer.

atheism is evil

The root of all evil? The world is a little more complicated than that, I'm afraid.

I don't think it makes sense to talk about religion as evil. As a cause of evil, certainly. False, certainly. But also a cause of good.

No, humans are evil

In other words, if everyone would be a true christian, the world would have NO wars because everyone would abide by the same rules...
There is no rule that the world leaders have made that says "do unto others what you want them to do to you"

Originally posted by finti
religion is evil end of discussion
Amen.

Originally posted by Makedde
Not all religions are evil, but as a whole, we would be better off without religion.

Without religion, the September 11 attacks would never have happened, because no one would be Muslim.

Think about that...
And that's because in the book for one specific religion it says you're allowed to do that, don't blame all religions just because of one. And thinking about it, atheism is a religion also...

Originally posted by Mr Brightside
Well, it's obvious that when there is no god, where's the moral? We're only humans, and if we want to have a rebellion over each other we can, the leaders of the countries are only people too, so why should we listen to them?

"obvious that when there is no god, where's the moral" is not correct, morals have nothing to do with God other then being part of God. You cannot have a universe without God or God without the universe. If there was no Christian religion it would have no effect of God or morals.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
"obvious that when there is no god, where's the moral" is not correct, morals have nothing to do with God other then being part of God. You cannot have a universe without God or God without the universe. If there was no Christian religion it would have no effect of God or morals.
Yes, that is if there was no christian religion, but there is!
I'll think you'll find:
1. A God is connected to a religion, if there is no religion then a god doesn't exist.
2. God created everything so it is him who decides what is good, not the creatures he created. Without him, the only thing that decides what is good is the tiny humans, which don't even have a choice on what is good anyway because of someone elses beliefs (The leaders) but the tiny humans still do wrong anyway (many people steal, fight etc)

Originally posted by Mr Brightside
Yes, that is if there was no christian religion, but there is!
I'll think you'll find:
1. A God is connected to a religion, if there is no religion then a god doesn't exist.
2. God created everything so it is him who decides what is good, not the creatures he created. Without him, the only thing that decides what is good is the tiny humans, which don't even have a choice on what is good anyway because of someone elses beliefs (The leaders) but the tiny humans still do wrong anyway (many people steal, fight etc)

If what you said was true, you should have no opinion about this. After all, you are one of those "tiny humans".

Religions are the creation of humans. The gods that these religions worship are made by humans. There is no point of creation, the universe/God as always been. Good and evil do not exist without each other, and the concept of good and evil are human creations.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If what you said was true, you should have no opinion about this. After all, you are one of those "tiny humans".

Religions are the creation of humans. The gods that these religions worship are made by humans. There is no point of creation, the universe/God as always been. Good and evil do not exist without each other, and the concept of good and evil are human creations.
That depends on who says it, you might say that good and evil are human creations, but I don't, I say that humans were told what is right and wrong a long time ago and were taught it by one known as Jesus. Think about it, when Jesus was born King Herod craved power, so he tried to kill Jesus to stop him from becoming king, is there a religion that says you're allowed to do that? i don't think so, he tried to do it because nobody could stop him.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Agreed.

The flip side of that coin is...

"How many people have died for Christianity?"

(or any religion for that matter)



True; and I am glad you see my point. I do not believe that any religion is evil within its self, it is what the people in the religion do that is good or evil.

There are aspects which inspire goodness in people, but also aspects which inspire the worst sort of atrocities.

Originally posted by AOR
Now religion promotes good (unless the religion is based on evil). Just because people use religion as an excuse doesn't make religion bad....

All things have the potential of good or evil. A thing cannot do, therefore a religion with no followers will have no effect. Once you add people, then the good or evil will come out of the thing, but it is up to the person to do the good or evil. God does not do, we do.

Originally posted by Mr Brightside
In other words, if everyone would be a true Christian, the world would have NO wars because everyone would abide by the same rules...
There is no rule that the world leaders have made that says "do unto others what you want them to do to you" Ahhh the missionaries....The solders of the war. Convert or proselytise. BTW, according to scripture, well to Paul, a true Christian converts the world, just as the Muslims try to convert the world.....Hence, a problem.

Excellent documentary.

Something anyone who is religious should see.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
All things have the potential of good or evil. A thing cannot do, therefore a religion with no followers will have no effect. Once you add people, then the good or evil will come out of the thing, but it is up to the person to do the good or evil. God does not do, we do.

Now, things are either good, or things are either bad. But that's because nothing has free will aside from humans. Therefore "things" that do things, do things with the intent of fullfilling the purpose, and nothing more. Eat to live, live to die. Very basic living style, and yet very very boring. So when free-will is added into the occassion normal things that would usually have a good purpose or a bad purpose is mixed to give the human the actual choice. And so religion, based on love, is good. But when humans are mixed with religion, religion is mixed with bad.


So I guess in conclusion, humans are evil. But then again only humans came up the actual "good" ideas. , there I go rambling again....

Originally posted by Mr Brightside
And that's because in the book for one specific religion it says you're allowed to do that, don't blame all religions just because of one.

Not true, the Koran does not say it's okay to kill people, blow up buildings etc.

Originally posted by AOR
Now, things are either good, or things are either bad. But that's because nothing has free will aside from humans. Therefore "things" that do things, do things with the intent of fullfilling the purpose, and nothing more. Eat to live, live to die. Very basic living style, and yet very very boring. So when free-will is added into the occassion normal things that would usually have a good purpose or a bad purpose is mixed to give the human the actual choice. And so religion, based on love, is good. But when humans are mixed with religion, religion is mixed with bad.


So I guess in conclusion, humans are evil. But then again only humans came up the actual "good" ideas. , there I go rambling again....

You are only rambling because you see that if humans were only evil then good could not come from them. All humans are both good and evil, we decide what we do.

Plato said that ignorance was the root and stem of every evil. This can be applied to the religious conflicts that history is afflicted with; if religions were not ignorant of each other, then they would be less likely to lead to hatred and war. Sadly, an educated religion is an oxymoron, which means that, yes, religion is evil because it denies the validity of others.

End of discussion.

I'll say it again...
Before religion people were mean.
If religion disappeared tomorrow, people would still be mean.
If there never was religion in the first place, people would still be mean.
It is the human factor which brings the fireworks, turning anything into a reason to be mean.

Originally posted by Makedde
Not true, the Koran does not say it's okay to kill people, blow up buildings etc. Where our Koran expert when you need her, Lil B.

It sure does say it.

Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/inj/long.html

"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh."
--Voltaire

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Plato said that ignorance was the root and stem of every evil. This can be applied to the religious conflicts that history is afflicted with; if religions were not ignorant of each other, then they would be less likely to lead to hatred and war. Sadly, an educated religion is an oxymoron, which means that, yes, religion is evil because it denies the validity of others.

End of discussion.

No true, an educated religion is attempting to establish itself as we speak. Sadly, however, people believe that if the masses want it, it must be accepted. Which is not so. A religion based on openess towards all things, and attempts to find the fine line that connects it all together, is an "educated" religion. However if "religion" can be defined as a belief of a person or people, then yes there are such things as educated religious/religions.

Discussion reopened....

Religion: truth-serving and self-transcending.
Religionism: ego-serving and self-contradicting.

The Koran does not say that. If you actually read the passage:

Start no fights, but if someone starts a fight with you, kill them wherever you see them, and retake any land they've taken from you. And don't fight in holy places, unless they attack you there, in which case, kill them. But if they stop attacking you, let hostilities cease.

Well, it's still saying that "it's okay to kill people," but only when they start a war of aggression against you. Most people would probably agree with this, actually.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Where our Koran expert when you need her, Lil B.

It sure does say it.

Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/inj/long.html

Yea...kill them if they attack you.

You have great reading ability. But let me assist you with an advanced tool. http://secure.hop.com/index.cfm?AFID=158

Originally posted by Gregory
The Koran does not say that. If you actually read the passage:

Start no fights, but if someone starts a fight with you, kill them wherever you see them, and retake any land they've taken from you. And don't fight in holy places, unless they attack you there, in which case, kill them. But if they stop attacking you, let hostilities cease.

Well, it's still saying that "it's okay to kill people," but only when they start a war of aggression against you. Most people would probably agree with this, actually.

A self-defensive fighting. It usually does appease the masses.

However Catholicism states, "Judgement is for the Lord." And I believe that also pertains to killing. Hence the "turn the other cheek".

Originally posted by AOR
No true, an educated religion is attempting to establish itself as we speak. Sadly, however, people believe that if the masses want it, it must be accepted. Which is not so. A religion based on openess towards all things, and attempts to find the fine line that connects it all together, is an "educated" religion. However if "religion" can be defined as a belief of a person or people, then yes there are such things as educated religious/religions.

Were you aware that you typed 'attempting to establish'? If so, then you should realise that until this 'educated religion' is recognised, the term shall remain oxymoronic.

Welcome.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Were you aware that you typed 'attempting to establish'? If so, then you should realise that until this 'educated religion' is recognised, the term shall remain oxymoronic.

Welcome.



What I meant to say is it is establishing itself, as in the religion is forming and evolving to match this so called "educated faith".

Regardless of what you meant to say, what you failed to understand is that until it is recognised it shall remain a fallacy. Even then, it will be intangible.

Religion: The Root of All Evil?


Yes

Originally posted by debbiejo
Where our Koran expert when you need her, Lil B.

It sure does say it.

Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/inj/long.html

Here here!! Im back for some Quran preaching
Originally posted by Gregory
The Koran does not say that. If you actually read the passage:

Start no fights, but if someone starts a fight with you, kill them wherever you see them, and retake any land they've taken from you. And don't fight in holy places, unless they attack you there, in which case, kill them. But if they stop attacking you, let hostilities cease.

Well, it's still saying that "it's okay to kill people," but only when they start a war of aggression against you. Most people would probably agree with this, actually.

Gregory,

Debbiejo is right about the verse - its not the full verse, but the context is right.. You have evidently (like many others who come around trying to make an argument about Quran) NOT read the Al Qur'an.

Reading the Quran many times, I have never ever come across the verse which states what you said above.
Who translated that one? Because Yusufali, Shakir or Pickthal certainly have not!

If you are gonna quote from Al Qur'an, please provide the verse number, so that I could remind myself when I pick up the Qur'an.

Let me demonstrate the verses from the ACTUAL Qur'an -

003.085
YUSUFALI: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).
PICKTHAL: And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.
SHAKIR: And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.


009.123

YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).
SHAKIR: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).


008.065

YUSUFALI: O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.
PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence.
SHAKIR: O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand.


025.052
YUSUFALI: Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness, with the (Qur'an).
PICKTHAL: So obey not the disbelievers, but strive against them herewith with a great endeavour.
SHAKIR: So do not follow the unbelievers, and strive against them a mighty striving with it.

066.009
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed).
PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end.
SHAKIR: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be hard against them; and their abode is hell; and evil is the resort.


002.191

YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
SHAKIR: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

047.004
YUSUFALI: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.
PICKTHAL: Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.
SHAKIR: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.


003.028

YUSUFALI: Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.
PICKTHAL: Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security. Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself. Unto Allah is the journeying.
SHAKIR: Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.


004.084
YUSUFALI: Then fight in Allah's cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.
PICKTHAL: So fight (O Muhammad) in the way of Allah Thou art not taxed (with the responsibility for anyone) except thyself - and urge on the believers. Peradventure Allah will restrain the might of those who disbelieve. Allah is stronger in might and stronger in inflicting punishment.
SHAKIR: Fight then in Allah's way; this is not imposed on you except In relation to yourself, and rouse the believers to ardor maybe Allah will restrain the fighting of those who disbelieve and Allah is strongest in prowess and strongest to give an exemplary punishment.

Etc...


I urge you to read the Al Qur'an before you make statements like yours.

Here is a link (for a millionth time in this forum) where any of you guys can look up verses from the Quran.

http://cwis.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

Not so much instructed to kill - i think the biggest danger with the Quran is that for many this is the only and non nagotiable, non translatable word of god.

Having that in mind, all verses can be, and are taken literaly.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Not so much instructed to kill - i think the biggest danger with the Quran is that for many this is the only and non nagotiable, non translatable word of god.

Having that in mind, all verses can be, and are taken literaly.
I thought there was a verse in the Qu'ran that actually instructed Muslims to kill non-believers. Maybe I was just misreading or something.

Read the post I posted before my last one - there are verses in there which instruct believers to kill unbelievers.

No, she is not.



Fight those who fight you, retake the land they drove you out of, be forgiving when they decist. Which is what I said.

Originally posted by Gregory
No, she is not.



Fight those who fight you, retake the land they drove you out of, be forgiving when they decist. Which is what I said.

...where you convininatly ignored all other verses I posted, which do not talk about ''in fight'' but rather 'kafir' infiriority.

As I already said, the danger with the Quran is that for many it is the non-nagotiable, non translatable and non metaphorical word of god.
Having that in mind, it can lead people do take the verses I posted above - literaly. Danger.

Sorry but after reading that, I still don't see anywhere where it says kill unbelievers. It does say kill them slaughter them drive them away if they have done so to you first. And don't become friends with them but instead become friends with people of the same faith, and that Allah will send them to hell.

A message christianity has spread a lot as well...

Originally posted by Fishy
Sorry but after reading that, I still don't see anywhere where it says kill unbelievers. It does say kill them slaughter them drive them away if they have done so to you first. And don't become friends with them but instead become friends with people of the same faith, and that Allah will send them to hell.

A message christianity has spread a lot as well...

Then perhaps you have not read what has been written. ''smite them above their necks'' should pretty much give out some kind of a clue.

also

''YUSUFALI: Then fight in Allah's cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.''

And this one -

''O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight.
If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred:
if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding. ''



By telling someone that unbelievers are evil and should not be taken for friends, is another mean of segregation, creating a superioirity complex, which follows many problems we have today.

you evidently think there is nothing wrong with one group of people refusing to take anyone else unlike them for friends on the grounds that they are sinners and are going to hell.

Jews are, in many Islamic countries continuously called pigs and monkeys BECAUSE they are not Muslim. Christians are persecuted in Egypt daily, and Hindus - Hindus are bombed, tortured and killed on the daily bases for being 'kafirs'. The genocide of Hindus by Muslims is an abomination - check the History of India, Pakistan...etc!

Yet, I cannot seem to recall last time I have seen a group of militant Hindus, Buddhists or Jews standing in front of an Islamic country's ambassy burning flags and threatening their lives.

There's nothing "convenient" about it; I ignored those verses because they have absolutely nothing to do with whether debbiejo's interpretation of that verse is correct. The Koran could order Muslims to commit genocide in a thousand different places, and her interpretation of that particular verse still wouldn't be correct.

Originally posted by Gregory
There's nothing "convenient" about it; I ignored those verses because they have absolutely nothing to do with whether debbiejo's interpretation of that verse is correct. The Koran could order Muslims to commit genocide in a thousand different places, and her interpretation of that particular verse still wouldn't be correct. Don't be ridiculous....This is not about me and the verse I chose considering I'm not a student of the Koran.....My original comment was on this statement:



And the point has been proven otherwise.

Of course it was about your verse; you were using it for evidence, after all.

My point was that the Koran teaches that it is ok to kill people. And with the compilation of the evidence, whether you like my verse or not...I'd say that it's true...The Koran does teach that, and that was my whole point.

Originally posted by debbiejo
My point was that the Koran teaches that it is ok to kill people. And with the compilation of the evidence, whether you like my verse or not...I'd say that it's true...The Koran does teach that, and that was my whole point.


Well, so does the bible.

Yep!!!........Sure does..........

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yep!!!........Sure does..........

Why would books supposedly written by God tell us to kill each other? That sounds more like that mythological creature Satan.

Doesn't it though!!

The reason I was making the earlier point was because it was alluded to that the Koran doesn't preach hate and yet the Bible does, which infact they both do.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why would books supposedly written by God tell us to kill each other? That sounds more like that mythological creature Satan.

Because it's not written by god and rather by humans?

BTW, to whoever posted it in the first page: atheism is NOT a religion.

Originally posted by Lana
Because it's not written by god and rather by humans?

BTW, to whoever posted it in the first page: atheism is NOT a religion.

But atheism functions as a religion in one way, as a belief. To not believe in god is just as much of a belief as believing in god.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But atheism functions as a religion in one way, as a belief. To not believe in god is just as much of a belief as believing in god.

Yes I agree. Atheism is considered disbelief in God, thus it can in a sense be a religion in its own.
Some Buddhists consider themselves atheists

They do????..........I thought it was more Spiritual in there belief?

boththe quran and bible SUCK BIGTIME. end of story.

actually almost NO1 in the world is an atheist. even if they say they are. the human mind can not function without a belief system no matter how trivial and therefore all atheists are agnostics and agnostics follow a belief system hence a relegion{in some sense}

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Yes I agree. Atheism is considered disbelief in God, thus it can in a sense be a religion in its own.
Some Buddhists consider themselves atheists

Yes and no. I am a Buddhist and I believe that the "Buddha that was enlightened in the remote passed" as spoken of in the Lotus sutra, is God. However, that is just my interpretation. So, I believe in God, but this God is only a word I used to describe something undesirable. Plus it really tweaks out the Christians.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Well, so does the bible.

And noone deined that. Besides, Bible being just as Bad as Torrah and Quran does not make those two books look any better.

My whole point is that for Old Testament, which many of you are referring to is originally Jewish scripture, and as far as many Jews I know go, they tend to look at it metaphorically - ei its not the definite and absolute word of God. Same goes for some Christians.

The fact that Christians do not follow Christ, but Paul is, another argument, ie. Their New Testament is clearly written by other ''men'' (although some Christians like to see that differently) Bible being written by other men is an open discussion.
Quran being written by other men is a topic not open for discussion - its a word of God.

Do you see the difference and the problem with both preaching hate.

As I mentioned before, I respect Jesus a lot for his preach of tolerance and turn the other cheek- very Buddhist like...very Eastern philosophy.
Like Gandhi said, ''I like your Jesus, but I don't like your Christians''

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes and no. I am a Buddhist and I believe that the "Buddha that was enlightened in the remote passed" as spoken of in the Lotus sutra, is God. However, that is just my interpretation. So, I believe in God, but this God is only a word I used to describe something undesirable. Plus it really tweaks out the Christians.

I said some Buddhists, not all Buddhists consider themselves atheists.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I said some Buddhists, not all Buddhists consider themselves atheists.

My miss read.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
The fact that Christians do not follow Christ, but Paul
Yes!...The church is Pauline!!!!........YOU GOT IT!!!....Not a follower of the words of Jesus.....This is what has killed the true message.....The message has gotten lost within the church walls, and Christians haven't caught on to the deceptions through the perversions of the church!!!!!!!!

I have no problem with what Jesus was saying, but it's the CRAPPY CHURCH....that has manipulated it to our own demise and strife, and the strife of the whole world...

And I for one really don't like stife.

just because its not ORGANISED relegion doesnt mean its not relegion. but belief is a gentler word i think.

Religions suck!!!!!!!...........They do no good to anyone!..............

Originally posted by debbiejo
Religions suck!!!!!!!...........They do no good to anyone!..............

It can keep you from cheating on your wife. It can keep you from harming yourself with drugs and alcohol. It can help you be a good parent. I'm religious and I know a lot of people who aren't. Those people have huge family problems, are always too busy getting drunk to do their homework, have been divorced because their marriages were based entirely on lust, and are generally just stupid and ignorant people. I don't mean to sound like I'm prideful, or I think I'm better than everyone else, but those are just some of the ways religion can help you.

edit

People would still be shitty to each other without religion!!they'd find an excuse, thats for sure!!

Originally posted by Ogami Itto
People would still be shitty to each other without religion!!they'd find an excuse, thats for sure!! WRONG

Religion is the cause of discrimination......not the other way around!
It hurts people who do not agree.....It destroys lives.

so before religion nobody did ANYTHING bad to each other???

Originally posted by Ogami Itto
so before religion nobody did ANYTHING bad to each other??? Of course they did, just as they do in religious groups today....no different....Only difference now is that we have a religious people who condemn others with the ways of Satan....and though satan is a myth, it is still hammered on to people that don't agree with religion...........You think we like being associated with satan?.........Why is it if a person doesn't believe we are all decieved by satan?....why can't it just be we know the truth about things....

so you are saying that if there was no religion people wouldn't be shitty to each other??

What does god have to do with a person caring about other people?

i'm not sure!!

Originally posted by Ogami Itto
i'm not sure!! I've know religious people who act like the devil themselves and nonbelievers who are saints.......so.......you figure it out yourself.......

Originally posted by debbiejo
I've know religious people who act like the devil themselves and nonbelievers who are saints.......so.......you figure it out yourself.......

NO! we want someone to tell us.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
NO! we want someone to tell us.

Yeah, that's the problem......sheep, sheep, sheep....

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yeah, that's the problem......sheep, sheep, sheep....

Why should I think for myself? I'm way too busy trying to pick between light and dark beer.beer

the poll was abit one-sided don't u think? as if pushin u to vote fr yes

dunno if it actually that way but i just felt it was

Originally posted by debbiejo
What does god have to do with a person caring about other people?
Well, specifically in the Bible, you see stuff like, "love thy neighbor" or, "love thine enemy." And has anybody ever heard of the Golden Rule?

Originally posted by apoc001
Well, specifically in the Bible, you see stuff like, "love thy neighbor" or, "love thine enemy." And has anybody ever heard of the Golden Rule? Yes said by Jesus, who wasn't a Christian.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes said by Jesus, who wasn't a Christian.
That doesn't make any sense. He's the son of God. He taught his father's gospel. That means he was teaching Christianity.

No it doesn't....The church today doesn't follow Jesus....They follow Paul.....and no Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew. More enlightened though...kinda like Buddha.

Well, my Christian church follows Christ. I just assumed the others were doing the same.

Originally posted by maham
the poll was abit one-sided don't u think? as if pushin u to vote fr yes

dunno if it actually that way but i just felt it was

As long as you don't burn your wife's face, kill your sister for being raped, blow up any buildings, or attack a bomb to yourself and hop a bus, then I'll trust your religious intentions are good.

Religion... root of all evil? XDD
I really dont understand at all what kind of religion people knows here... to say all the things people says XDD.

Humans are The Evil, actually. Humans are completely natural born evil.
Religion is here finally to control the natural evil and pervertions of the human kind.
Religion is here because of the need to fight the evil some how XD

Originally posted by Thorin
Religion... root of all evil? XDD
I really dont understand at all what kind of religion people knows here... to say all the things people says XDD.

Humans are The Evil, actually. Humans are completely natural born evil.
Religion is here finally to control the natural evil and pervertions of the human kind.
Religion is here because of the need to fight the evil some how XD



OH GREAT, another Zealot...let me guess, your 15 right ?

Originally posted by Thorin
Religion... root of all evil? XDD
I really dont understand at all what kind of religion people knows here... to say all the things people says XDD.

Humans are The Evil, actually. Humans are completely natural born evil.
Religion is here finally to control the natural evil and pervertions of the human kind.
Religion is here because of the need to fight the evil some how XD


Oh really? Then can you explain why it does such a crappy job?

whether or not religion is a force for evil or good depends on 2 things - The religion itself, and how it's adherents apply the religion.

As for the root of all evil - I'm going with Paul. The love of money is the root of evil. paraphrased to the love of things is the root of evil.

Eastern religions also teach it. Attachment leads to pain.

Attachment also leads to passion, which as we've seen is a very powerful force.

Are you advocating detachment?

Originally posted by docb77
whether or not religion is a force for evil or good depends on 2 things - The religion itself, and how it's adherents apply the religion.

As for the root of all evil - I'm going with Paul. The love of money is the root of evil. paraphrased to the love of things is the root of evil.

Eastern religions also teach it. Attachment leads to pain.

Attachment DOES lead to pain.

Of course our philosophy differes slightly to yours because, detachent should indicate the ipermanance of all things.

Nothing in this world is in its true form, because nothing is permanent.

Therefore, to attach yourself to something is to attach yourself to the falsness or illusion, as what you are attaching yourself too, is not permanent and will not last. (because as we said, nothing is in its right form, and everything changes constantly)

Such example can be applied to the money.

Don't forget that attachment to certain ideas, like religion, can be just as detrimental as attachment to money

Religion is not the root to all evil

Neither is money...

That's a load of bullsh*t....

Religion and Money can serve as justifications or motivations for evil, but if evil is truly an existant force, and not just an interpretation based on our biased perceptions, then its roots lay much deeper...within ourselves.

Where does sincere cruelty, hate, and sadism originate? How is it born ?

You guys HONESTLY think that Religion OR money can SPARK these things? They only serve as CATALYSTS, but those aspects of a person are far more internal than anything like reliigon or money.