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Cyclops
Emma frost
Beast
Colossus
Shadowcat
Wolverine


VS


Havok
Psylocke
Bishop
X-23
Storm
Nightcrawler


This is not a fight where it is one on one, it is EVERYONE on the Astonishing team vs EVERYONE on the uncanny team. NO prep.

they fight in the Danger room, which is constantly firing things like missiles, buzzsaws, lasers, robots etc.

who wins?

first team would win. to much muscle for the other to handle with heavy hitters like colossus and wolverine, beast to handle the upfront battle. cyclops and havoc is on par.

I've always like Emma better than psylocke, don't know why. however she's a much more powerful telepath so she could probably handle psylocke and Storm via telepathy.

wolverine can and have handed night crawler his ass before so he could probably do so again. colossus would crush x-23 while beast starts to beat up on bishop.

It would not be an easy battle but I think first team would win say 7/10

Emma forst , she shuts everyones minds off. Instant Win.

I don't she'll be able to do that to Pyslocke or X23 due to their immunity and resistance but she'll definitely take out the rest. And with the other bigger guns Astonishing has, they take this.

Originally posted by grey fox
Emma forst , she shuts everyones minds off. Instant Win.

Psylocke is currently immune to tp. She could protect her vulnerable team mates with TK shields

Storm is highly resistant so wouldnt be able to take Storm out in an instant. One flash of lightning or any other projectile from Uncanny would force Emma into diamond form at which point her tp would be a non factor anyway.

Bishop absorbs tp energy along with various other forms.

Overall Uncanny is a more powerful team and as long as theres Psylocke there to protect the vulnerable members and as long as they keep Emma on the defensive then they could win the majority.

TK protects you from Telepathy? what issue did that happen?

Uncanny win - too much raw power on their side

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
TK protects you from Telepathy? what issue did that happen?

Never said that it did. Psylocke is immune to TP, something which has nothing to with TK. I never drew a connection between the two.

Betsys TK can protect her vulnerable team mates from the physical attacks of the opposition.

Emma can only use tp when not in diamond form but then shes of normal human durability, and can be killed in an instant by nearly all of the opposition. Therefore if shes kept on the defensive she will be forced to stay in diamond form for fear of being killed and her tp will be a non factor.

Originally posted by Pepito
Uncanny win - too much raw power on their side

well rachel grey is on uncanny right now, as well as cannonball...so where are they? also storm isn't on uncanny and won't be for a while.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Never said that it did. Psylocke is immune to TP, something which has nothing to with TK. I never drew a connection between the two.

Betsys TK can protect her vulnerable team mates from the physical attacks of the opposition.

Emma can only use tp when not in diamond form but then shes of normal human durability, and can be killed in an instant by nearly all of the opposition. Therefore if shes kept on the defensive she will be forced to stay in diamond form for fear of being killed and her tp will be a non factor.

Well Tk shield is good and all but Psylocke hasn't displayed feats to indicate she has the sufficient energy to shield the entire team against an enemy who has a class 100 tonner on their side. That's too much strain taking onto account another guy who can shoot beams that can destroy a small forest.

And emma doesn't need to go into defensive all the times, if she can control bishop or havok or some other people in the uncanny's team who haven't displayed absurd amounts of willpower, she can turn the tide all by herself and wouldn't need to worry if Kitty phases herself along with her.

storm also showed the ability to deflect tk which was shown in her battle with Candra.

Candra was extremely depowered though since the gem storm destroyed contained the sum total of her power.

Anyway, are you talking about TK or TP.

Also Shadowcat would score some cheap kills against the uncanny team.

Cylops, Wolverine and Colossus have alot of battle experience together. I say Astonishing team wins.

The uncanny team has way too much firepower here.
Originally posted by Bol Gath
first team would win. to much muscle for the other to handle with heavy hitters like colossus and wolverine, beast to handle the upfront battle. cyclops and havoc is on par.

Wolverine isn't a heavy hitter for one....
You joking? Colossus, Beast, and Wolverine will be the first to get taken out. Hitting hard isn't going to matter when you are picked up by Storm's hurricane. Emma abilities will be nullified by Psylocke. Cyclops will be overwhelmed and Psylocke can protect team from his blast via shields. Shadowcat is the only problem here. Even then, she will only be a slight nuisance.

And where is Gambit?

Originally posted by StyleTime
And where is Gambit?


I didn't have everyone from the uncanny team. This thread is doing well

there have been some interesting points on both sides. I found it interesting how everyone immediately looked at the telepaths for the outcome because of there sheer speed and power, however many people overlooked the guys who can punch holes in mountains...........

Originally posted by willRules
I didn't have everyone from the uncanny team. This thread is doing well

I know, but I wanted to say how Gambit will handle Wolverine. Now Storm gets to do it.
Originally posted by willRules

there have been some interesting points on both sides. I found it interesting how everyone immediately looked at the telepaths for the outcome because of there sheer speed and power, however many people overlooked the guys who can punch holes in mountains...........
Hahaha. Didn't you know? Telepaths can apparently think so.....hard that they can amp themselves to Hulk strength and Flash speed.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Candra was extremely depowered though since the gem storm destroyed contained the sum total of her power.

Anyway, are you talking about TK or TP.

yeah...i don't know what i was thinking it was tk which wouldn't have a factor here because no one on astonishing has the ability of tk. anyway, candra wasn't depowered and the comic i'm talking about the gem wasn't destroyed.

Cyclops and havok cancel each other out
Emma frost and Psylock do the same
Beast beats Bishop
Colossus gets beat by storm
Shadowcat vs Nightcrawler= not sure....too close to call IMO
Wolverine beats X-23

but this is just one scenario. When everyone is fighting everyone, i forsee storm causing loads of problems and shadowcat causing loads of problems. Nightcrawler is a wildcard, but Beast brings intelligence to the table. its pretty even fight IMO.................

BUMP

Originally posted by willRules
Cyclops and havok cancel each other out
Emma frost and Psylock do the same
Beast beats Bishop
Colossus gets beat by storm
Shadowcat vs Nightcrawler= not sure....too close to call IMO
Wolverine beats X-23

but this is just one scenario. When everyone is fighting everyone, i forsee storm causing loads of problems and shadowcat causing loads of problems. Nightcrawler is a wildcard, but Beast brings intelligence to the table. its pretty even fight IMO.................

shadowcat is hurt by heavy based electrical attacks, and wind-based attacks. she is still affected by wind in phased form, and has been knocked out by magneto by a heavy amount of electricity. and colossus has been heavily damaged by storms lightning before. it wasn't the electricity that hurt him...but the amount of heat the lightning had.

I change my response to a draw - a similar fight occurred before and it was only Cable who survived, but there's no cable

Uncanny.

I'll handle this when i aint half drunk. The arguments for Astonishing are sh*t.

You serious? the other team doesn't even have a telepath.

The only time i've seen kitty getting hurt with electricity was what stormfront said with magneto. But that is the sole time i've seen it and we don't know exactly how it would affect her when he's not phased to someone before the voltage struck.

And IIRC colossus withstand a few minutes getting charged by Storm's lightning then got passed to Cyclops for extra fuel for his optic blast. Both Cyke and Piotr can handle it well.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Uncanny.

I'll handle this when i aint half drunk. The arguments for Astonishing are sh*t.

Ok, i'll be posting on this later then.....

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
You serious? the other team doesn't even have a telepath.

The only time i've seen kitty getting hurt with electricity was what stormfront said with magneto. But that is the sole time i've seen it and we don't know exactly how it would affect her when he's not phased to someone before the voltage struck.

And IIRC colossus withstand a few minutes getting charged by Storm's lightning then got passed to Cyclops for extra fuel for his optic blast. Both Cyke and Piotr can handle it well.

un-phased? it would still affect her, and hurt even more. and colossus can;t stand a few minutes of geting hit with something that is 50,000 degrees. he could barley stand it for the second that it hit him.

Originally posted by stormfront13
un-phased? it would still affect her, and hurt even more. and colossus can;t stand a few minutes of geting hit with something that is 50,000 degrees. he could barley stand it for the second that it hit him.

It did on one appearance. On another(that planet of Arkon arc) about another issues later, he was charged up for almost an hour. And even moreso for cyclops who withstood that total charged lightning and used it to enpower his optic blasts.

And i mean not phased into someone ala Vision's phasing to opponent trick.

Colossus could take half of that team by himself. Yeah, Astonishing takes this, easy.

Astonishing. IIRC Shadowcat has shown she can resist telekinesis while phased, and she can phase the entire Astonishing team. Phasing has also allowed her to survive at the epicentre of a nuclear explosion. Emma's telepathy can account for most of the opposite team.

Cyclops can down Storm before Storm can down Cyclops, as already exasperatingly established in another thread in which she wasn't being attacked by Emma's telepathy. Cyclops also being the better leader and the Astonishing team having the ability to coordinate via telepathy, they fair better in the teamwork department.

Besides all that. It's a far better comic, with far better characters, under the helm of a far better writer.

BTW when has Bishop shown the ability to absorb telepathy?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Astonishing. IIRC Shadowcat has shown she can resist telekinesis while phased, and she can phase the entire Astonishing team. Phasing has also allowed her to survive at the epicentre of a nuclear explosion. Emma's telepathy can account for most of the opposite team.

Cyclops can down Storm before Storm can down Cyclops, as already exasperatingly established in another thread in which she wasn't being attacked by Emma's telepathy. Cyclops also being the better leader and the Astonishing team having the ability to coordinate via telepathy, they fair better in the teamwork department.

Besides all that. It's a far better comic, with far better characters, under the helm of a far better writer.

BTW when has Bishop shown the ability to absorb telepathy?

Dont try it X. I'll handle this 2morrow.

Meh, even if they do lose this fight... it's still a far better comic, with far better characters, under the helm of a far better writer.

Case-in-point, in the same issue that Rachel says there are no alternates of her in all the omniverse, there is a male alternate from a different reality. Or Dazzler being an External and having a healing factor that surpasses even Wolverine's...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Besides all that. It's a far better comic, with far better characters, under the helm of a far better writer.

no doubt

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Meh, even if they do lose this fight... it's still a far better comic, with far better characters, under the helm of a far better writer.

Case-in-point, in the same issue that Rachel says there are no alternates of her in all the omniverse, there is a male alternate from a different reality. Or Dazzler being an External and having a healing factor that surpasses even Wolverine's...

Ok cos thats somehow relevant

Nite nite X

It's not.

Nite.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's not.

Nite.

Originally posted by stormfront13
un-phased? it would still affect her, and hurt even more. and colossus can;t stand a few minutes of geting hit with something that is 50,000 degrees. he could barley stand it for the second that it hit him. Storm summoned all of her lightning she could muster. Colossus help up rather well.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Meh, even if they do lose this fight... it's still a far better comic, with far better characters, under the helm of a far better writer.

Case-in-point, in the same issue that Rachel says there are no alternates of her in all the omniverse, there is a male alternate from a different reality. Or Dazzler being an External and having a healing factor that surpasses even Wolverine's...

SHHHHH!!

Havoks blasts are hotter than Storms lightning and Colossus has handled those on more than one occasion also.

http://www.thefreeimagehosting.com/Uploads/Images/2132115625000havok.jpg


Here is another case in which Colossus took Storms lightning once again.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Colossuslightingrod.jpg

Originally posted by stormfront13
and colossus has been heavily damaged by storms lightning before. it wasn't the electricity that hurt him...but the amount of heat the lightning had.


umm thats why I said in my scenario that Storm beats colossus

Originally posted by willRules
umm thats why I said in my scenario that Storm beats colossus

i know, i wasn't refering to your scenerio. and snoopdog, in none of those pics was storm attackig colossus...ther's a difference from trying to hurt someone, not even trying to hurt them.

Originally posted by stormfront13
i know, i wasn't refering to your scenerio. and snoopdog, in none of those pics was storm attackig colossus...ther's a difference from trying to hurt someone, not even trying to hurt them. Are you saying Storms lightning is hotter when she is attacking somebody? Please don't make me laugh.

Havok was trying to hurt Colossus and all he got was wacked upside the head.

Havoks blasts>Storms lightning

Apparantly Colossus can handle her lightning better than she can.

Too evenly matched - they both know all of their opponents' weaknesses. Astonishing seems to have more power while Uncanny seems to have more versatility and tactical oppurtunity.

No, I think it is the opposite...

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Are you saying Storms lightning is hotter when she is attacking somebody? Please don't make me laugh.

Havok was trying to hurt Colossus and all he got was wacked upside the head.

Havoks blasts>Storms lightning

yeah, when your not tryng to hurt somebody, they won't b hurt, but when you actually are...they can be as shown when the x-men battled storm. storms lightning bolts were attracted to colossus's body, and he said the pain was unbearable and couldn't go on. also, the pic you displayed, please get your facts straight. magneto took control of the lightning storm had, boosted it's power, and storm literally was unaffected for a couple minutes, and it was a power struggle, but storm was also concentrating on the hurricane/pressure inside of magnetos shield.

I think everyone has left Beast out of this. He is often underestimated even inside the MU itself. He could easily be jumping around knocking out opponents, plus he is far more intelligent than everyone else in this fight, he has worked with them before and will know their moves.

To quote Beast from astonishing X-men 12 (talking to the danger-room-robot)

"Im sure you have thousands of complex scenarios running through your head. Mines simple. I'm a cat. You're a bird, And the day I can't out-think a computer, I may as well give up."

For those of you who haven't read that issue he defeated a robot whilst protecting Xavier. This robot knew every X-man/woman's strength, weaknesses and fighting styles, and had just defeated all the astonishing X-men. Beast beat it by himself, whilst looking over Xavier.

My point is that Beast is vastly underrated for this fight considering his immense strength, speed, intellect and the fact he knows each X-man here.

Yep. Beast can tear through steel with ease.

Originally posted by stormfront13
yeah, when your not tryng to hurt somebody, they won't b hurt, but when you actually are...they can be as shown when the x-men battled storm. storms lightning bolts were attracted to colossus's body, and he said the pain was unbearable and couldn't go on. also, the pic you displayed, please get your facts straight. magneto took control of the lightning storm had, boosted it's power, and storm literally was unaffected for a couple minutes, and it was a power struggle, but storm was also concentrating on the hurricane/pressure inside of magnetos shield. Colossus wasn't hurt by Storms lighting that time either and Storm was amped up if I remember right. He said something on the lines of he can withstand their onslaught or something like that.

Can Storm alter the power of her lighting like you say? I think your making that up. It's like me practicing with .357 magnum by shooting at popcans but when I aim it at a deer and shoot it it will not have the same power.

http://www.thefreeimagehosting.com/Uploads/Images/2132217187503acolytes.jpg
(Lightning is not a good method to use agaisnt Colossus.)

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Colossus wasn't hurt by Storms lighting that time either and Storm was amped up if I remember right. He said something on the lines of he can withstand their onslaught or something like that.

Can Storm alter the power of her lighting like you say? I think your making that up. It's like me practicing with .357 magnum by shooting at popcans but when I aim it at a deer and shoot it it will not have the same power.

http://www.thefreeimagehosting.com/Uploads/Images/2132217187503acolytes.jpg
(Lightning is not a good method to use agaisnt Colossus.)

no, your thinking of a different story-line, colossus was definitley harmed by storms lightning. and yes...storm can definitley alter the power of her lightning, just like cyclops can alter the power of his optic blast. seriously, to even ask that you don't know anything about storm. also, storm, can just freeze him in a block of ice like she did in the x-men VS dracula story arc. she froze him in what the comic called "the blink of an eye"

Better writing always win. Whedon pwns Uncanny lamo

Originally posted by stormfront13
no, your thinking of a different story-line, colossus was definitley harmed by storms lightning. and yes...storm can definitley alter the power of her lightning, just like cyclops can alter the power of his optic blast. seriously, to even ask that you don't know anything about storm. also, storm, can just freeze him in a block of ice like she did in the x-men VS dracula story arc. she froze him in what the comic called "the blink of an eye" Ok prove that Strorm can change the temp. of her lightning with a scan.

What issue did Storm freeze Colossus in?

It couldn't be any hotter than Pete Wisdom melting Piotr's spine. When Colossus wents into rage, even lighting would be like raindrops to him.

Besides, isn't metal just conductors or something.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Ok prove that Strorm can change the temp. of her lightning with a scan.

What issue did Storm freeze Colossus in?

prove she can change the intensity of lightning? this is pathetic, she controls lightning...give me one reason she couldn't control the intensity, ask anyone here and they would say the same. i don't have access to my old issues, so i can't give you an issue number, but she did it in the x-men VS dracula story arc.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
It couldn't be any hotter than Pete Wisdom melting Piotr's spine. When Colossus wents into rage, even lighting would be like raindrops to him.

Besides, isn't metal just conductors or something. That's why lightning has not effect on him.

He took a magical lightning attack from Arkon with no trouble. He even took Havoks blasts' twice with no problems.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
That's why lightning has not effect on him.

He took a magical lightning attack from Arkon with no trouble. He even took Havoks blasts' twice with no problems.

and yet, storms had a painful affect on him. also, arkons lightning attack isn't even a real lightning bolt.

Originally posted by stormfront13
and yet, storms had a painful affect on him. also, arkons lightning attack isn't even a real lightning bolt. Arkons lightning put down Thor!

Anyways wich isssue did Storms lightning actually hurt Colossus? And which issue # did she freeze him in the blink of a eye like you said?

Uncanny #147 she shot him(while being amped) and he said it hurt but he can withstand their onslaught.

Uncannny #160 she hit him with it but he just stood there.

Annual #4 while Storm summoned as much lightning as she could Colossus held her in the air while the steel platform melted.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Anyways wich isssue did Storms lightning actually hurt Colossus? And which issue # did she freeze him in the blink of a eye like you said?


i told you, i don't have issue numbers. he said the ligthning was unbearable when the x-men fought doom, and she froze him in the story arc called x-men VS dracula. just go to google and search x-men VS dracula.



right here should have given away that it isn't real lightning...no amount of lightning could ever out down thor. once again...it's not real lightning, it's a form of energy.



this might be when they fought doom, but n this issue he also said that he couldn't get to storm because the pain was unbearable.



here, she isn't een attacking him, so the point is useless.

There is only one time i've seen Colossus admitting he gets hurt by lightning and that was on Rogue Storm(massive powerup from Psychological trauma). If you can provide any other issues, it's well appreciated.

I think storm can beat colossus with a ring out. Just throw him out of the battlefield. I doubt that will hurt him, but atleast thats one less member you have to worry about.I think snoop has proven with enough scans that more often than not, colossus can indeed stand up to storms lightning attacks.

I agree

BUMP

Originally posted by willRules
I think everyone has left Beast out of this. He is often underestimated even inside the MU itself. He could easily be jumping around knocking out opponents, plus he is far more intelligent than everyone else in this fight, he has worked with them before and will know their moves.

To quote Beast from astonishing X-men 12 (talking to the danger-room-robot)

"Im sure you have thousands of complex scenarios running through your head. Mines simple. I'm a cat. You're a bird, And the day I can't out-think a computer, I may as well give up."

For those of you who haven't read that issue he defeated a robot whilst protecting Xavier. This robot knew every X-man/woman's strength, weaknesses and fighting styles, and had just defeated all the astonishing X-men. Beast beat it by himself, whilst looking over Xavier.

My point is that Beast is vastly underrated for this fight considering his immense strength, speed, intellect and the fact he knows each X-man here.

Originally posted by willRules


He's only class 2 and amongst TKs, tps and high level energy manipulators hes small fry.

I read that issue will, albeit that moment was awsome the above reason's GS posted make it hard for beast to do anything on the fly...or against people who can fly....

Originally posted by snoopdogg

Can Storm alter the power of her lighting like you say? I think your making that up.

Hes talking the truth :

http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/2585/xmenclandestine2page40418oj.th.jpg

Storm can alter the properties of her lightning.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He's only class 2 and amongst TKs, tps and high level energy manipulators hes small fry.


I would have said the same thing until I read Astonishing X-men 12. He took down a robot that had defeated a telepath, a long range energy opponent, one of the world's best fighters and healers, a metal man, and the equivalent to a ghost.

He has also worked with all of them before and is unbelievably intelligent.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Colossus wasn't hurt by Storms lighting that time either and Storm was amped up if I remember right. He said something on the lines of he can withstand their onslaught or something like that.

Storm was hardly amped up as such. Its not like her powers were enhanced by an outside power source. She was however applying her power with less restraint than she otherwise normally would due to Dr Dooms actions. Would she not be doing the same in a bloodlust, battle to the death scenario?

I take it youre talking about this:

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/254/hrpage188bx.th.jpg

Storm can alter the properties of her lightning. Colossus' melting point is 9000 degress fahrenheit.

Heres a few sites referencing the temperature of lightning bolts:

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/DavidFriedman.shtml

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/wea00/wea00032.htm

http://www.abc15.com/weather/wow/tellusbellis-story.asp?did=13399

Heres a kelvin,celsius and fahrenheit converter:

http://sidney.heartland.net/courtney/java/temperature/

Imagine Storm amping up the temperature, singling him out and striking him with a focused barrage of the stuff. Colossus holding Storm as shes discharging lightning or Colossus shrugging off a single lightning bolt is totally different to her singling him out and attacking him. In the Arkon incident for example she wasnt amping up the heat.

Colossus withstanding a lightning bolt in the past is hardly impressive as humans have done the same, its down to the short lived nature of the discharge. Lightning can far exceed Colossus' melting point and Storm can alter its properties and focus it on him. She'd take him out if need be.

Just so that you can picture the possibilities heres a lil visual aid:

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/2308/xmenclandestine2page326qv.th.jpg

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/1408/xmenclandestine2page334az.th.jpg

Originally posted by willRules
I would have said the same thing until I read Astonishing X-men 12. He took down a robot that had defeated a telepath, a long range energy opponent, one of the world's best fighters and healers, a metal man, and the equivalent to a ghost.

He has also worked with all of them before and is unbelievably intelligent.

Its not as simple as that. You cant say oh he's beat him/her, who has defeated blah blah blah so that means he can beat this person and that person. It just doesnt work like that in battle.

One strong energy blast from any one of the energy manipulators in opposition will kill him quite easily.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Well Tk shield is good and all but Psylocke hasn't displayed feats to indicate she has the sufficient energy to shield the entire team against an enemy who has a class 100 tonner on their side. That's too much strain taking onto account another guy who can shoot beams that can destroy a small forest.

And emma doesn't need to go into defensive all the times, if she can control bishop or havok or some other people in the uncanny's team who haven't displayed absurd amounts of willpower, she can turn the tide all by herself and wouldn't need to worry if Kitty phases herself along with her.

Psylocke doesnt need to shield the entire team, only those most vulnerable to attack. Youre also making it out like the battles going to be some feature length epic, not necessarily. As stated on panel Psylocke possesses a greater tk output currently than Marvel Girl who has a number of great TK feats. It will hold long enough for the oppositions most dangerous members to be taken care of.

Most of the Astonishing team can have their hearts stopped or their necks snapped by Psylocke with a thought, split seconds after the start of the battle. Something she could easily do whilst protecting the vulnerable members of her team.

Emmas tp will not be given a chance to come into play. The team knows she can only Use it in normal form. With a thought her necks snapped by Psylockes tp or shes taken out by any one of the energy manipulators on the Uncanny team. Theyre just possibilities. The more likely scenario is that Emma will be forced to remain in diamond form. There are just too many people with long range powers.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

One strong energy blast from any one of the energy manipulators in opposition will kill him quite easily.

Umm...Beast...probably one of the top 5 in Marvel when it comes to dodging...and since the most accurate team member is on his side...

Psylocke's telekinesis would work, though.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Umm...Beast...probably one of the top 5 in Marvel when it comes to dodging...and since the most accurate team member is on his side...

Psylocke's telekinesis would work, though.

When Beast is proven to move at the speed of thought then i'll consider this a counter to my quoted statement.

Psylockes TK and Storms lightning both of them generated and operated psionically will do the job just fine.

They still need to get a bead on Beast, and concetrate on blasting the place he is in. I think he will be moving far faster from them to do so...

Their attacks don't appear instantly. Near-instantly. And for someone with reflexes and speed far past humans, it wouldn't be that hard to move before they can make their attacks. Beast has practiced with computer generated lasers in Danger Room since he was 15.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
There is only one time i've seen Colossus admitting he gets hurt by lightning and that was on Rogue Storm(massive powerup from Psychological trauma). If you can provide any other issues, it's well appreciated.

that's what time i was talking about, and now with her powers maturing throughout the years, she has performed similar feats to the rogue storm incident and should be able to conjure similar lightning. also, she froze colossus "in the blink of an eye" in issue 1 of x-men, volume 1. here's how the scenario went

colossus came at storm ready to fight her, she instantly froze the ground and blew him over. he was frozen in a block of ice before he could even get up. also, she performed this feat while bleeding to death.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
They still need to get a bead on Beast, and concetrate on blasting the place he is in. I think he will be moving far faster from them to do so...

Their attacks don't appear instantly. Near-instantly. And for someone with reflexes and speed far past humans, it wouldn't be that hard to move before they can make their attacks. Beast has practiced with computer generated lasers in Danger Room since he was 15.

Beast is not the Flash, Beast is not even Spiderman. Lasers in the Danger room cannot have their trajectory altered mid blast. Big difference.

Their power blasts dont have to manifest instantaneously the speed they travel at and the fact that their direction can be altered with a thought is all that matters.

Beast may be able to react faster than them, but he cannot move faster than their energy projectiles.

He'll get taken down.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
They still need to get a bead on Beast, and concetrate on blasting the place he is in. I think he will be moving far faster from them to do so...

Their attacks don't appear instantly. Near-instantly. And for someone with reflexes and speed far past humans, it wouldn't be that hard to move before they can make their attacks. Beast has practiced with computer generated lasers in Danger Room since he was 15.

lightning moves faster than the speed of thought...a lot faster. it would be very hard to dodge at least three, and don't forget storm has been training in the use of her powers before she was even 15, and has been fighting since she was 6, so she is definitely experienced enough to hit him.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Its not as simple as that. You cant say oh he's beat him/her, who has defeated blah blah blah so that means he can beat this person and that person. It just doesnt work like that in battle.

One strong energy blast from any one of the energy manipulators in opposition will kill him quite easily.

Oh I agree that we can't just judge his previous feats, but we have to look at things such as stats the environment, the opponents, allies, numerous other factors etc.

Beast's stats aren't exactly flawed either compared to the Uncanny team members stats. He is more agile, stronger, quicker and probably has better reflexes than many of the uncanny team. It really depends on who he is fighting. If it is Storm for example, she could just fly up away from him and keep on firing till she eventually hits. But if Beast were fighting, for example, Bishop, he pretty much outweighs Bishop physically in every way and Bishop has no distinct advantage over him eg. flight.

Plus I don't really agree with the statement that a strong energy blast will kill him off. I could just as easily say that Beast would dodge the attack due to the fact he has enhanced agility and the fact that (Like Darkcrawler said) the most accurate energy member is on the same team...............

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Beast is not the Flash, Beast is not even Spiderman. Lasers in the Danger room cannot have their trajectory altered mid blast. Big difference.

Their power blasts dont have to manifest instantaneously the speed they travel at and the fact that their direction can be altered with a thought is all that matters.

Beast may be able to react faster than them, but he cannot move faster than their energy projectiles.

He'll get taken down.

but he holds a huge environmental advantage with this. The teams are fighting in the danger-room. A physically enhanced Beast is much more likely to dodge a stray laser or buzzsaw than Psylocke or Storm.

Originally posted by willRules
Oh I agree that we can't just judge his previous feats, but we have to look at things such as stats the environment, the opponents, allies, numerous other factors etc.

Beast's stats aren't exactly flawed either compared to the Uncanny team members stats. He is more agile, stronger, quicker and probably has better reflexes than many of the uncanny team. It really depends on who he is fighting. If it is Storm for example, she could just fly up away from him and keep on firing till she eventually hits. But if Beast were fighting, for example, Bishop, he pretty much outweighs Bishop physically in every way and Bishop has no distinct advantage over him eg. flight.

Plus I don't really agree with the statement that a strong energy blast will kill him off. I could just as easily say that Beast would dodge the attack due to the fact he has enhanced agility and the fact that (Like Darkcrawler said) the most accurate energy member is on the same team...............

If Beast were to fight Bishop he would get fried with an energy blast. Bishop has his own personal reserves in the first place and during battle its standard procedure for his teammates to blast him during battle. Id consider Bishops ability to use said energy to enhance his speed, strength (basically his overall physical prowess to superhuman levels) quite a major advantage over an intelligent simian.

Beast isnt fast enough to dodge for any decent amount of time energy blasts from the likes of Storm and Psylocke. They travel at the speed of thought (more for Storm) and they are psionically operated.

Beast having faster reactions isnt a suitable counter for that.

Psylocke can simply snap Beasts neck with a thought, or stop his heart. He cant move at the speed of thought, he will obviously be within her sphere of influence, his reactions in those circumstances are irrelevant.

Originally posted by willRules
but he holds a huge environmental advantage with this. The teams are fighting in the danger-room. A physically enhanced Beast is much more likely to dodge a stray laser or buzzsaw than Psylocke or Storm.

Psylocke can protect herself and any vulnerable teamates depending on the duration of the battle. At the same time Beast would hardly be able to dodge a lightning assault or tk attack in such circumstances.

This is heating up. We'll continue this later. Im gone.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Most of the Astonishing team can have their hearts stopped or their necks snapped by Psylocke with a thought, split seconds after the start of the battle. Something she could easily do whilst protecting the vulnerable members of her team. She doesn't have that level of fine control.Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Storm can alter the properties of her lightning. Colossus' melting point is 9000 degress fahrenheit. Colossus is a large earthed low resistance metal conductor, he isn't heating up due to a lightning bolt.Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Beast isnt fast enough to dodge for any decent amount of time energy blasts from the likes of Storm and Psylocke.
Interesting how people with slower reactions have been able to dodge Storm's lightning in the past.

True

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Psylocke can simply snap Beasts neck with a thought, or stop his heart. He cant move at the speed of thought, he will obviously be within her sphere of influence, his reactions in those circumstances are irrelevant.

Of course. I said Psylocke's telekinesis would work.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
She doesn't have that level of fine control.

Doesnt need to. The point was that they are within her range and can be affected by her powers. Be it a snap of the neck or tk dismemberment its all the same.


Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Colossus is a large earthed low resistance metal conductor, he isn't heating up due to a lightning bolt.

Not from a single bolt as ive already said, please refer back. A barrage however will take its toll. As shown she can generate temps far in excess of his melting point. He would get slagged eventually.


Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Interesting how people with slower reactions have been able to dodge Storm's lightning in the past.

Its also interesting how Wolverine can withstand Hulks blows or Human Torch can engage an enraged Namor h2h. This is a forum where we can look past ridiculous writing and judge outcomes of battles based on a characters power set and how effectively they have shown to apply their powers overall.

As per forum rules Storm is bloodlusted and she is in a battle to the death. Were those the same circumstances for the instances youre referring to? Given her power set in those instances was she using her abilities to the max, applying them how she should be able to?

Thats why we have the versus forum.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Doesnt need to. The point was that they are within her range and can be affected by her powers. Be it a snap of the neck or tk dismemberment its all the same. Not really.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not from a single bolt as ive already said, please refer back. A barrage however will take its toll. As shown she can generate temps far in excess of his melting point. He would get slagged eventually. Based on?
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Its also interesting how Wolverine can withstand Hulks blows or Human Torch can engage an enraged Namor h2h. This is a forum where we can look past ridiculous writing and judge outcomes of battles based on a characters power set and how effectively they have shown to apply their powers overall.

As per forum rules Storm is bloodlusted and she is in a battle to the death. Were those the same circumstances for the instances youre referring to? Given her power set in those instances was she using her abilities to the max, applying them how she should be able to?

Thats why we have the versus forum. Her lightning has human-generated beginnings, it has a latency dependent upon her reactions, it is targeted to locations rather than random and so can be anticipated, it is completely plausible that someone with equal or better reaction speeds can dodge her lightning.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Not really.

They are within her range she can take the majority out with a thought.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Based on?

The fact that she can generate temperatures considerably higher than his melting point. Youre talking as if she is gonna attack with single bolt after single bolt. A bit of common sense please.

If she attacks with a continuous barrage of lightning it will eventually take its toll and Piotr will get slagged.

http://img498.imageshack.us/img498/8937/xmenclandestine2page33edited4i.jpg




Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Her lightning has human-generated beginnings, it has a latency dependent upon her reactions, it is targeted to locations rather than random and so can be anticipated, it is completely plausible that someone with equal or better reaction speeds can dodge her lightning.

Her lightnings trajectory can be altered with a thought. Its direction is not set in stone. Thats the crux of the matter. Beast is not Flash, he is not Spiderman, damn he aint even Nightcrawler. He cannot move faster than the speed of thought. Him being able to react faster than Storm is irrelevant.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm



Her lightnings trajectory can be altered with a thought. Its direction is not set in stone. Thats the crux of the matter. Beast is not Flash, he is not Spiderman, damn he aint even Nightcrawler. He cannot move faster than the speed of thought. Him being able to react faster than Storm is irrelevant.

With the lightning moving with the speed that it does, wouldn't it hit the opposite wall long before she can alter it's trajectory in time?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
With the lightning moving with the speed that it does, wouldn't it hit the opposite wall long before she can alter it's trajectory in time?

Nope not necessarily. Storm can control the speed of her lightning and alter its direction mid blast if she wants to.

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/3333/whatifv2040211md.th.jpg

I wasn't aware that she can control it's speed...ok then.

canadian
Wolverine's team would win because he's a canadian and they are an angry people

Irregardless. Astonishing trumps Uncanny in everything that counts...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Irregardless. Astonishing trumps Uncanny in everything that counts...

In your opinion. In this thread all that counts is the powerset and skills of the individuals in the featured teams. In this versus match Uncanny more than likely wins the majority. Saying oh i dont care Astonishing is a better comic and i like it better anyway is distinctly juvenile.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In your opinion. In this thread all that counts is the powerset and skills of the individuals in the featured teams. In this versus match Uncanny more than likely wins the majority. Saying oh i dont care Astonishing is a better comic and i like it better anyway is distinctly juvenile.

True but I'm sure some people have some good points for why they think Astonishing wins. it isn't just that uncanny wins end of story.

Originally posted by willRules
True but I'm sure some people have some good points for why they think Astonishing wins. it isn't just that uncanny wins end of story.

Never said it was. It just happens to be the case that noones presented a good argument as to why Astonishing wins. The Uncanny side have just put together a better case.

hay don't forget about Nightcrawler. he could take out a lot of the Astonishing team pretty easily.

Originally posted by TheKahn
hay don't forget about Nightcrawler. he could take out a lot of the Astonishing team pretty easily.

BUMP

i'd say stonishing, simply for the fact that they've all worked alot closer together as a team than the others imo...

adding the fact that half the training programs were designed by cyclops, i think he'll use that to his advantage...

x-23 is a non element imo, storms lightning wont put down colossus easily imo (he's been hit by lightning before, and he wasnt hurt as badly as some would think), he's also taken massive blasts from havok in his stride... wolverine can take bishop hand to hand, and emma can hit the rest with tp attacks... then there's shadowcat, beast and cyclops... i'll go for astonishing...

cool

Originally posted by pr1983
i'd say stonishing, simply for the fact that they've all worked alot closer together as a team than the others imo...

adding the fact that half the training programs were designed by cyclops, i think he'll use that to his advantage...

x-23 is a non element imo, storms lightning wont put down colossus easily imo (he's been hit by lightning before, and he wasnt hurt as badly as some would think), he's also taken massive blasts from havok in his stride... wolverine can take bishop hand to hand, and emma can hit the rest with tp attacks... then there's shadowcat, beast and cyclops... i'll go for astonishing...

The Uncanny team have had many years working together as a team as well. Both sides do, so much so no side has any real advantage on that point over the other. On the whole both teams have a wealth of experience working as a team.

Merely saying Colossus has hit by lightning before is not a counter for the point that Storm can take him out. Colossus has been hit by a bolt of lightning various times. Colossus has even withstood a barrage which leaked off Storm as he held her. Totally different to being attacked by a barrage of lightning which has had its temperature amped up to beyond Colossus' melting point.

He can be slowed down and via tk or winds before eventually being fatally wounded by amped up lightining.

Wolverine can take Bishop h2h eventually but Bishop can hold his own against Wolverine in terms of h2h combat :


http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9742/106gl2.th.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5899/112ol.th.jpg

On top of that Bishops mutant abilities will ensure he can deal with Wolverine. Singing the flesh off his bones will leave him out of the battle for the duration.

Emmas tp can quite easily be rendered a non factor in this battle. For the aforementioned reasons. If she dares to try to use it shes risks getting incinerated, dismembered or basically stomped be it through the opposition or the danger room. She'll be in diamond form.

Shadowcats been shown to be vulnerable to electricity, she has also never been shown to be able to walk through tk fields. Betsy can trap her until her breath runs out then crush her when she turns physical.

Beast is pretty much a non factor if we're being serious and Cyclops still has human durability. He cant hurt Betsy, Bishop or Havok, yet all of Uncanny can take him out with half the chance.

Keep in mind this is taking place in the danger room, and Cyclops is known for making bank shots. Also, still recall Colossus withstanding electricity far more often than it's been able to stop him. As for the factor of telepathy, remember that Storm demolished Emma Frost back when Emma and her switched bodies.

Originally posted by The Fake Macoy
Keep in mind this is taking place in the danger room, and Cyclops is known for making bank shots. Also, still recall Colossus withstanding electricity far more often than it's been able to stop him. As for the factor of telepathy, remember that Storm demolished Emma Frost back when Emma and her switched bodies.

Cyclops blasts can be blocked via tk and theres a number of Uncanny who wont be troubled by them i.e Havok and Bishop.

Cyclops is high risk along with the Emma. One tk snap of the neck deals with him.

Read back through the thread and you'll see why youre comment on Colossus and lightning makes no difference. Were the circumstances the same for each incident. Does Colossus withstanding a single bolt of lightning a few times on seperate occassions have any relevance?

Before you answer that please read the thread.

Whether hes stopped by Storm or he's teleported halfway through a wall by Nightcrawler he will get taken down.

The scenario is too dangerous for Emma to risk tp. She'll be in diamond form.

The rest of the team are pushovers.

Astonishing would, they got better members

Are we still asuming emma cant use telepathy in diamond form because we all know shes done it in astonishing before i think in issue 4 or 5.

Originally posted by phillipan
Are we still asuming emma cant use telepathy in diamond form because we all know shes done it in astonishing before i think in issue 4 or 5.

Shes done it once before. It doesnt become canon until the ability is supported by other writers and the handbooks. After that issue came out numerous handbooks came out reiterating that Emma could not use telepathy in diamond form, therefore its not canon. Mark it off as a slip up/bad writing.

Originally posted by Wolverine2006
Astonishing would, they got better members

Thats a good argument.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Shadowcats been shown to be vulnerable to electricity, she has also never been shown to be able to walk through tk fields. Betsy can trap her until her breath runs out then crush her when she turns physical. She's also been shown on numerous occasions to be intangible to various energy including electricity. And she has been shown to be resistant to TK. If she passed out from lack of oxygen she'd be intangible... because it's her natural state.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
She's also been shown on numerous occasions to be intangible to various energy including electricity. And she has been shown to be resistant to TK. If she passed out from lack of oxygen she'd be intangible... because it's her natural state.

No evidence to show that she can walk through tk fields. Resistance doesnt equal immunity. Whether shes tangible or intangible when she passes out is really rather irrelevant wouldnt you agree?

Psylocke alone can blow everyone away with a telekinetic wave while protected by a tk shield and she's telepathy immune.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
No evidence to show that she can walk through tk fields. Resistance doesnt equal immunity. Whether shes tangible or intangible when she passes out is really rather irrelevant wouldnt you agree? There's no evidence that Psylocke can crush her when Jean couldn't drag her... off the top of my head it was some issue of Excalibur where the team had to face off against the original X-Men.

Not really irrelevant. You're presupposing she has to breathe when intangible. It's been stated that intangible is her natural state, and that she consciously wills herself to become tangible. Tell me how does one breathe when they need to consciously become tangible but are unconscious?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
There's no evidence that Psylocke can crush her when Jean couldn't drag her... off the top of my head it was some issue of Excalibur where the team had to face off against the original X-Men.

Not really irrelevant. You're presupposing she has to breathe when intangible. It's been stated that intangible is her natural state, and that she consciously wills herself to become tangible. Tell me how does one breathe when they need to consciously become tangible but are unconscious?

Kitty however cannot just not concentrate and allow herself to be intangible all the time otherwise as stated by Reed and Dr Doom she would lose all cohesion and her molecules would be dispersed. (Really not an option im thinking. ) Hence their experiment on her which made it so that through concentration she could make herself solid again like she was originally. A process which brings about all the weaknesses of her original form as well such as the need to hold her breath in order to remain intangible. All this being well supported in her bio.

Please have a read and get back to me with your thoughts.

I thought she needed to hold her breath only when passing through objects...

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Uncanny team have had many years working together as a team as well. Both sides do, so much so no side has any real advantage on that point over the other. On the whole both teams have a wealth of experience working as a team.

i disagree... cyclops and beast have worked together since they were kids, and for a long time cyclops, colossus and wolverine were on the same team, so i do believe there is a definate advantage, the uncanny team to me looks rather splintered... adding to that, that cyclops is considered a tactical genius (nick fury said so ) and is considered one of the best leaders in marvel... sounds like an advantage to me...



we're assuming storm can find his melting point? he's taken a full power blast from havok and barely been phased... and he's used himself as a lightning rod before... he conducts electricity, which can dull storms effects on him imo...



so storm and betsy will be so free to take their time to cast such effects?



assuming bishop can hit him, and not forgetting logan will use his claws in a h2h fight won't he?



not especially... cyclops, storm, bishop and havok are all vulnerable too, and if they can stay alive why can't emma? and if she isn't in diamond form that leaves her to use her somewhat formidable tp powers...



all shadowcat has to do is phase through the floor, problem solved... she could even take logan or beast with her...



underestimating beast imo is a bad idea, he took danger down himself, and in bloodlust mode (if thats how the fight is), he can cause serious damage...

havok cant hurt cyke either, and why cant he hurt betsy? he can level a small forest, she's bound to be strained by him pelting her forcefield with blasts... and he is no less durable than you or i (unless you're a superhero in your spare time ), same goes for bishop, shadowcat, havok, emma and storm...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I thought she needed to hold her breath only when passing through objects...

She does, but if shes not phasing then shes solid and therfore still vulnerable.

Originally posted by pr1983
i disagree... cyclops and beast have worked together since they were kids, and for a long time cyclops, colossus and wolverine were on the same team, so i do believe there is a definate advantage, the uncanny team to me looks rather splintered... adding to that, that cyclops is considered a tactical genius (nick fury said so ) and is considered one of the best leaders in marvel... sounds like an advantage to me...



we're assuming storm can find his melting point? he's taken a full power blast from havok and barely been phased... and he's used himself as a lightning rod before... he conducts electricity, which can dull storms effects on him imo...



so storm and betsy will be so free to take their time to cast such effects?



assuming bishop can hit him, and not forgetting logan will use his claws in a h2h fight won't he?



not especially... cyclops, storm, bishop and havok are all vulnerable too, and if they can stay alive why can't emma? and if she isn't in diamond form that leaves her to use her somewhat formidable tp powers...



all shadowcat has to do is phase through the floor, problem solved... she could even take logan or beast with her...



underestimating beast imo is a bad idea, he took danger down himself, and in bloodlust mode (if thats how the fight is), he can cause serious damage...

havok cant hurt cyke either, and why cant he hurt betsy? he can level a small forest, she's bound to be strained by him pelting her forcefield with blasts... and he is no less durable than you or i (unless you're a superhero in your spare time ), same goes for bishop, shadowcat, havok, emma and storm...

Whoa!! I'll have to get back to this when im feeling less of a lazy b*stard.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
She does, but if shes not phasing then shes solid and therfore still vulnerable. So when she phases other people without warning do they precognitively know to hold their breath too or do they just instantly die of asphyxiation?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Kitty however cannot just not concentrate and allow herself to be intangible all the time otherwise as stated by Reed and Dr Doom she would lose all cohesion and her molecules would be dispersed. (Really not an option im thinking. ) Hence their experiment on her which made it so that through concentration she could make herself solid again like she was originally. A process which brings about all the weaknesses of her original form as well such as the need to hold her breath in order to remain intangible. All this being well supported in her bio.

Please have a read and get back to me with your thoughts. Hmm... never got a reply to my question. When Kitty is unconscious she is intangible. Pray tell how? In a battle she's just constantly holding her breath? Wow if a battle lasts more than a few minutes she's pretty much screwed. How exactly does one hold their breath when their bodies can pass through solid, liquid and gaseous matter, as well as on several occasions various forms of energy?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
How exactly does one hold their breath when their bodies can pass through solid, liquid and gaseous matter, as well as on several occasions various forms of energy?

I was thinking that as well................

I remember an issue where the X-Men are in space, and Kitty only starts to worry about his breathing when he gets outside the ship...

BUMP

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Hmm... never got a reply to my question. When Kitty is unconscious she is intangible. Pray tell how? In a battle she's just constantly holding her breath? Wow if a battle lasts more than a few minutes she's pretty much screwed. How exactly does one hold their breath when their bodies can pass through solid, liquid and gaseous matter, as well as on several occasions various forms of energy?

After her accident, Kitty is naturally intangible however she cannot just allow herself to remain in such a state or she will totally lose molecular cohesion and she will be dispersed. Through concentration Kitty reverts back to her original form, along with its original features i.e her having to hold her breath to become and remain intangible( as detailed in her bio)

How Kitty holds her breath while intangible is a question you'll have to direct at Marvel. Regardless its what happens as depicted on panel and as stated in her bio. So your point is irrelevant. Marvels bad science doesnt affect my argument or give you a leg to stand on. It is what it is. Sorry mate.

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9513/excalibur057p032ce.th.jpghttp://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9297/excalibur057p042bh.th.jpghttp://img50.imageshack.us/img50/7686/excalibur057p058uy.th.jpg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9505/excalibur057p069zr.th.jpghttp://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2007/excalibur057p074mr.th.jpghttp://img98.imageshack.us/img98/750/excalibur057p086ze.th.jpg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/931/excalibur057p096gs.th.jpghttp://img98.imageshack.us/img98/900/excalibur057p106vd.th.jpg
Eight sequential pages in which Shadowcat remains phased throughout. Note she talks quite a bit while phased. Note this is after the Morlock Massacre. If she does need to hold her breath apparently she can do it for as long as she wants.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Eight sequential pages in which Shadowcat remains phased throughout. Note she talks quite a bit while phased. Note this is after the Morlock Massacre. If she does need to hold her breath apparently she can do it for as long as she wants.

Kitty as documented on panel and in her bios is unable to breathe whilst phasing. Does that mean she is incapable of talking whilst phasing?

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7805221980.jpg&s=x11



Do panels tend to document every single bodily function of their featured characters?

Does that mean therefore that for all we know Kitty could have become solid at undocumented intervals to enable her to breathe?

With the above in mind, are X's scans inconclusive?


Never mind.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Kitty as documented on panel and in her bios is unable to breathe whilst phasing. Does that mean she is incapable of talking whilst phasing?

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7805221980.jpg&s=x11



Do panels tend to document every single bodily function of their featured characters?

Does that mean therefore that for all we know Kitty could have become solid at undocumented intervals to enable her to breathe?

With the above in mind, are X's scans inconclusive?


Never mind.


Its not really been disproved though. These scans support what Xmarksthespot said. Saying that might not be all we see of the story isn't concrete evidence against that

Originally posted by willRules
Its not really been disproved though. These scans support what Xmarksthespot said. Saying that might not be all we see of the story isn't concrete evidence against that

X is questioning a fundamental aspect of Kittys abilities. A feature that has been stated and depicted many a time on panel and was also stated in her last bio. X's opinion to the contrary are irrelevant in light of that. His scans imply his contrary opinion but given that his OPINION is flat out incorrect according to the bio and on panel accounts it really doesnt matter. Please understand that.

Originally posted by willRules
Its not really been disproved though. These scans support what Xmarksthespot said. Saying that might not be all we see of the story isn't concrete evidence against that

Really?

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7812215231.jpg&s=x11

X's opinion in light of this is irrelevant.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Kitty as documented on panel and in her bios is unable to breathe whilst phasing. Does that mean she is incapable of talking whilst phasing?

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7805221980.jpg&s=x11



Do panels tend to document every single bodily function of their featured characters?

Does that mean therefore that for all we know Kitty could have become solid at undocumented intervals to enable her to breathe?

With the above in mind, are X's scans inconclusive?


Never mind. I'm pretty sure your scan is from Kitty Pryde and Wolverine, i.e. from before the Morlock Massacre when her solid state is still default. You probably know this but are showing it anyway as if it proves something? I can show multiple images of her knocked out and default phased, without her molecules dispersing into the air. She only had trouble staying solid for a period after she was reconstituted by Reed and Doom, I'm quite certain she's overcome this by now and she's been depicted as so. Although worded badly the bio implies she cannot breathe when she is phased into solid objects, not that she cannot breathe at all. Multiple depictions of her show that she can maintain a phased state for prolonged periods of time.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm pretty sure your scan is from Kitty Pryde and Wolverine, i.e. from before the Morlock Massacre when her solid state is still default. You probably know this but are showing it anyway as if it proves something? I can show multiple images of her knocked out and default phased, without her molecules dispersing into the air. She only had trouble staying solid for a period after she was reconstituted by Reed and Doom, I'm quite certain she's overcome this by now and she's been depicted as so. Although worded badly the bio implies she cannot breathe when she is phased into solid objects, not that she cannot breathe at all. Multiple depictions of her show that she can maintain a phased state for prolonged periods of time.

So you've changed it up slightly and now believe that she is unable to breathe only whilst phasing through solid objects as opposed to your previous stance which dismissed all notion of Kitty being unable to breathe in a phased state at all. You've progressed. I wondered how long it would take for you to figure that out. Its cool. I'll accept that.

Backup plan. Psylocke will just tk slam Wolverine into her:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7906370638.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7906374633.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7906384473.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7906392833.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7906400586.jpg&s=x11

With her laid out in pain and quite usefully solid, TK snap, lightning bolt, plasma blast you name it either one will suffice. Bye bye Ms Pryde.

I knew Wolvie would come in handy somewhere down the line.

SLASH!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Backup plan. Psylocke will just tk slam Wolverine into her:


thats assuming Kitty isn't already phased underground..........

Originally posted by willRules
thats assuming Kitty isn't already phased underground..........

Forgive me if im wrong but I dont believe you specified prep time for Ms Pryde.

On top of that Kitty can only phase through objects at the rate of speed she was moving prior. She would have to dive underground. Im sure Psylocke could tag Ms Pryde from the get go if it was her intent to do so.

On top of that X has yet to provide evidence of Kitty walking through tk shields.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
With her laid out in pain and quite usefully solid, TK snap, lightning bolt, plasma blast you name it either one will suffice. Bye bye Ms Pryde. Wonder how long it takes to get across that her default state isn't solid. Why would she become solid out of pain? If that happened she'd fuse the claws when they passed through her.

What exactly happens next in your series of scans? Kitty Pryde is alive right now as far as I know.

And i never said she walked through TK shields.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Wonder how long it takes to get across that her default state isn't solid. Why would she become solid out of pain? If that happened she'd fuse the claws when they passed through her.

What exactly happens next in your series of scans? Kitty Pryde is alive right now as far as I know.

And i never said she walked through TK shields.

Oh dear

If you were to re-read the scans you would see that as Kitty phased through Sabretooths adamantium body, her power was temporarily disrupted. Which is the reason why he was subsequently able to slash her very physical body. Sabretooth then comments on this saying that he knows adamantium causes her intangible form pain as standard and that after passing through his entire body she must be in agony and unable to phase since he was able to "tag" her. He then approaches her for the kill and Kitty confirms his comments by remaining helpless on the ground and commenting on how her sacrifice was her choice and that Logan would avenge her. That was the last panel of the title. (Wolverine v2 #126)

For the sake of denial i'll post the second page of #127:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/8006442532.jpg&s=x11

I'll also cater for stubborness by posting a summary of said issue from Uncanny x-men.net:

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=2776

I believe that puts an end to this issue.


With all that in mind your snobby comments with regards to my realisation of her defeault state are embarassingly redundant. As for your comment on the fusing of Sabretooths claws, mere unsupported and therefore worthless speculation. Or could it be poor observation?

She passed through his body prior to his assault with the claws, leaving her solid and in front of Sabretooth. Please for the sake of this debate read the scans again.