Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Happens in NYC.

Jesus, are you SERIOUS!?

Starfire is a match for Wonder Woman. I don't think Spideys got much of a chance...

I say we rename it Spidey vs Storm. Then he has a goddamn chance. Hell, a good one, at that.

Starfire isn't a match for Wonderwoman. Not at all.

Wonderwoman gave her the "eye", and Starfire remembered her place. Wondy would maim SF.

I think she's slightly above Spiderman, but since the fight is in Spiderman's home terr', he could win.

Originally posted by long pig
Starfire isn't a match for Wonderwoman. Not at all.

Wonderwoman gave her the "eye", and Starfire remembered her place. Wondy would maim SF.

I think she's slightly above Spiderman, but since the fight is in Spiderman's home terr', he could win.

Even in the show SF is way stronger. There is no way Spidey could win this, really.


And I am a HUGE Spidey fan.

Starfire isn't a "match" for Wonder Woman. She can trade blows briefly with Diana, though. I say Spidey has a decnt chance, since SF does't ahve the blatant superspeed that Supes or WW have.

To use a phrase coined by Black Adam:
Spiderman is going to asplode.

Starfire would eventually burn Spidey alive. Kory 7/10. 3/10 reserves for those stingers.

Are we talking about current Spidey with the new powers and costume?
If so then he has very good chances for the win.

I agree with arahan. If you read the Other, Spidey got a hardcore upgrade. He's one HELL of a lot quicker than he used to be, and he used to be able to dodge hits from Quicksilver. I dunno, Spidey I think would toy with her for a good while, then knock her out. However, he'd have Aunt May make her cookies later.

I don't think his added agility and new suit would really help him in this fight (IIRC it is only bullet proof against small caliber guns). She has the advantage of flight which takes her out of the range of most of Spidey's and her energy attacks can cause a lot of destruction. She could just fly out of his range and rain down starbolts until she hits him.

If they get in close, his stingers might be able to put her down. But Starfire should take the majority.

Originally posted by TheKahn
To use a phrase coined by Black Adam:
Spiderman is going to asplode.


You are correct sir!!


Spider-man dies 10/10 times......

Originally posted by Black Adam
You are correct sir!!


Spider-man dies 10/10 times......



blowup blowup

This fight is so lopsided.

Even Nightwing(or robin) has gone up against a rogue starfire in the past. That spider sense upgrade he got in the other would have him webswinging circles around starfire, without ever once being hit. Not only that, but he got a strength upgrade and agility upgrade as well. He just has too many ways of staying 5 steps ahead of her, while reading the daily bugle.

Starfire isn't even in the web heads league. This would have been a good fight back in the old days, but she'd be no match against the current Spiderman.

Spiderman 9/10(and that's if he ditches MJ, and decides to hook up with her instead by purposely losing the fight).

Spider-Man gets roasted via nova flame.

Nah man, Spider-Man takes this, hes got the a Ironman made suit now.

I bet that puts him in class 100 with that on.

Originally posted by Murda Mase
Nah man, Spider-Man takes this, hes got the a Ironman made suit now.

I bet that puts him in class 100 with that on.
Ironman himself isn't class 100 he would need to charge up for that...............

I wouldnt say he is class 100. He is stronger but it wasnt stated how strong he
is now.

Ironman is a Low Class 100.

Yep. Iron Man and War Machine are about 95-100, but Spidey's new suit doesn't amp his strength. However, I still say he can stay ahead of Starfire pretty easily.

I refered the increase of strength on the
die and rebirth thing. But I admit
that I am not really sure about a
strength boost.

He did have one.

Hes class 15 with no suit.

I think that's a 3 ton increase from before. He used to be a class 12. Now he's a bit more of a physical match for Venom, who's a 20 when he's not increasing his mass.

Starfire has (like practically all dc heroes) flight, energy bolts and strength. Spiderman avoids energy bolts with spidersense, combines webs, agility and his own strength to attack her (he's fought far stronger beings with ease due to superior speed) and he's beat many flying beings too.

Originally posted by Murda Mase
He did have one.

Hes class 15 with no suit.

yes I know that but after the Other he had a second upgrade but i am not sure about that.

The hell? Spider-Man dies. Period.

Strength? Spidey's Class 15. Starfire's Class 100.
Durablity? Spidey gets his eye ripped out. Starfire withstood the Astro-Force.
Speed? Spidey can dodge bullets. Starfire can travel through space FTL.

Spider-Man dies 10/10. His ONLY hope is that his teammates can come in and help his ass.

Originally posted by Draco69
The hell? Spider-Man dies. Period.

Strength? Spidey's Class 15. Starfire's Class 100.
Durablity? Spidey gets his eye ripped out. Starfire withstood the Astro-Force.
Speed? Spidey can dodge bullets. Starfire can travel through space FTL.

Spider-Man dies 10/10. His ONLY hope is that his teammates can come in and help his ass.

so would you also say spidey goes Asplode?

Aye. Or he gets disintegrated...

I would go for disintegrated myself or 3rd degree burns all over..

Originally posted by long pig
Happens in NYC. Starfire 10/10

Starfire class 100? Way off!!! Nowhere close. Not even Class 70 or 60.

As for Spiderman's strength increase, you have to remember that his powers were midgitated, due to the illness explained in the other. All during his fights with Norman Osbournes two sons, the new molten man, and his fights against the avenger's clones. This was explained during the other. Which is the main reason Morlun decided to attack him then.
During the Molten Man storyline, he swung two cars and molten across the city with one hand. This all took place while he was weakened. Morlun was at least class 50, during his rematch with Spidey. In the hospital, "The other" killed him with ease. So Spiderman is no doubt as strong as the submariner is above water.

Starfire has the advantage of strength, but Spiderman's improved spider sense, and his improved agility would be too much for her to handle. Even if she was giving him trouble, he could just fire a web line in the air, and keep track of all her movements from the vibration on the web.

During one of the Teen Titans storylines, Nightwing(or robin) took on starfire while she was rogue. Nightwing, whose strength class is far below 1, should have been obliterated, according to your logic. So her having 100 class strength is impossible. She is not even that fast, in comparison to the web head. Now I'm not sure about this next point, since I have not read all of the teen titans comics, but I'm pretty sure Deathstroke has beaten the titans many times, including Starfire, considering he was one of their main villains. Deathstroke doesn't come close to Spiderman, in terms of powers.

Another thing, the Hulk and Juggernaut are class 100(far above that), yet Spiderman has taken them on as well. The fight with Juggernaut was a stalemate, but the fight against the hulk wasn't. Sure, he won by causing him to revert back to bruce banner, but this proves that he can more than easily take on chracters above the class 100 level.

Also, during a recent storyline, Spiderman took on four avengers clones single handedly.

Captain America, Thor, Iron-Man, and Hawk-eye. And he was winning too, up until the point to where the fake avengers realized that they would need team work, to stand a chance. Of course, we don't know who would have won that fight, since the real avengers showed up the second the fake avengers figured that out.

Last, but certainly not least.....Spidey rulz!!!!!

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Lastly, during one of the Teen Titans storylines, Nightwing(or robin) took on starfire while she was rogue.
Nightwing/Robins are by extension Batman and thus they can do anything.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Starfire class 100? Way off!!! Nowhere close. Not even Class 70 or 60.

Starfire is most certainly Class 100. Stop watching the cartoon. She's like Superman. She's a solar battery. She's seen lifting air carrier over her head.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
As for Spiderman's strength increase, you have to remember that his powers were midgitated, due to the illness explained in the other. All during his fights with Norman Osbournes two sons, the new molten man, and his fights against the avenger's clones. This was explained during the other. Which is the main reason Morlun decided to attack him then.
During the Molten Man storyline, he swung two cars and molten across the city with one hand. This all took place while he was weakened. Morlun was at least class 50, during his rematch with Spidey. In the hospital, "The other" killed him with ease. So Spiderman is no doubt as strong as the submariner is above water.

Spider-Man STRONGER than Namor? Please. Morlun isn't Class 50 either. He's at most as strong as Luke Cage.

Spider-Man blindsided Morlun by sticking his stingers through his hands and "devouring" him.

Jesus. You actually think Spider-Man is now stronger than Namor? Darkcrawler would go nuts.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Starfire has the advantage of strength, but Spiderman's improved spider sense, and his improved agility would be too much for her to handle.

How? Agility vs. FTL speed. Hmm. Guess who wins? She doesn't even have to use her starbolts. She can just trap him in a forcefield or superheat the area around them by thousands of degrees. Or she simply go NOVA.

Take into account she's a pre-cog...

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Even if she was giving him trouble, he could just fire a web line in the air, and keep track of all her movements from the vibration on the web.

How is he going to keep "track" of an opponent zipping around faster than sound and if she chooses light? She'll rip through any webline he makes. Or more easily just burn them.


Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Lastly, during one of the Teen Titans storylines, Nightwing(or robin) took on starfire while she was rogue. Nightwing, whose strength class is far below 1, should have been obliterated, according to your logic. So her having 100 class strength is impossible. She is not even that fast, in comparison to the web head..

Again. Stop using the cartoon as a medium for the comic which is completely different. It's like using movie Rogue as a medium for the comic version.

Now Spider-Man would most certainly curbstomp TV Starfire...


Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Now I'm not sure about this next point, since I have not read all of the teen titans comics, but I'm pretty sure Deathstroke has beaten the titans many times, including Starfire, considering he was one of their main villains. Deathstroke doesn't come close to Spiderman, in terms of powers.

Deathstroke as also beaten the entire JLA AND held his own against Wonder Woman. He has a massive jobber aura worthy of Batman.


Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Another thing, the Hulk and Juggernaut are class 100(far above that), yet Spiderman has taken them on as well. The fight with Juggernaut was a stalemate, but the fight against the hulk wasn't. Sure, he won by causing him to revert back to bruce banner, but this proves that he can more than easily take on chracters above the class 100 level.

Hulk and Juggernaut are massive, slow, powerful lummoxes that have little prayer of hitting Spider-Man.

Starfire is a FTL, Class 100 foe with centuries of combat experience and several solar manipulation powers.

Bad analogy.

omg i cant believe it

Hold the phone, who said he was stronger than Namor? I'm referring to him being stronger than Namor without being powered up by submerging in water. He is as strong as Namor is at his weakest. Morlun's senses are uncanny. Merely blindsiding him wasn't what took place. It was Parker's unused agility that was in use here, and his other upgrades. Morlun was outmaneuvered by Spiderman's blinding speed.

I've just got to say I'm shocked. Are they really aiming for making all their characters like Superman. How droll.

Anyway, the Human torch can do most of those things you listed above(minus the speed of light and pre-cog), and can go to the intensity of a Super nova. Him and Spiderman have fought each other on multiple occassions. So Starfires powers would be nothing new to the web head. Now I would use the Fire Lord argument, but people seem to be so offended by that, that it's against forum rules. So I digress on this point.

However, that vibration trick, combined with his uncanny agility, and his spider sense, it would most certainly work, if she were moving at the speed of sound.

Again. Stop using the cartoon as a medium for the comic which is completely different. It's like using movie Rogue as a medium for the comic version.

Now Spider-Man would most certainly curbstomp TV Starfire...I wasn't using the cartoon(have they even fought each other in the cartoon?). That has happened in the comics. I don't even watch the cartoon. It's a disgrace to the original comics.

Deathstroke as also beaten the entire JLA AND held his own against Wonder Woman. He has a massive jobber aura worthy of Batman.

As I recall, he fought 7 JLA members simaltaneously, and lost. Besides, I listed Spiderman taking on the strongest members of the avengers.

I just don't understand the justifacation for Batman here. Like Batman, Spiderman takes out people he is not supposed to beat all the time. The only difference here is that they occassionally have Spiderman lose to people weaker than him. I'm guessing that's where the confusion falls.

Now if what you say is true, and that they really have given Starfire Superman's powers, then yeah, I agree Spiderman would lose in a straight up fight. Though if there were a rematch, Starfire wouldn't stand a chance, no matter what she did. She would lose any fight afterwards. Like Batman, Spidey relies on preparation as well. I'm sure he'd find a way to limit her powers(heck, I've already thought of one), after using Tony Stark's resources to develop a plan.

Now if this is the traditional versus thread matchup, where rules state that both characters get a limited amount of prep time from the get go, Spidey hands down.

Kenshin seems to be Spidey's lone supporter here....but he's kinda going off the deep end occasionally. Lemme see if I can't find some middle ground.

First off, screw the Iron Spider costume...by all accounts, he won't have it long anyway. Let's just take this fight old school.

Starfire can fly at FTL speeds, but travel speed and fight speed are very, very different. I've never seen her fight fast enough to assume that she's anything beyond "good reflexes and fighting skill". If someone can tell me otherwise, I'd be happy to reconsider this fight.

That said, the list of people Spider-Man has successfully dodged completely is long as hell....and it includes people far more skilled than Starfire. Everyone who is saying she'd have an easy win is assuming she'd get a solid number of hits in on Spidey....and that's much less likely than people think. He's been punched by the likes of an enraged Hulk and only had broken ribs, so it wouldn't be a one-hit kill. Far from it.

And that assumes she can hit him at all. The hard part comes with Spidey getting in a mega amount of hits without taking too many himself. Again, entirely possible (though it could go either way) and Starfire's durability isn't beyond Spidey's ability to hurt. It would take a while, no doubt, but it's possible.

If anyone hasn't read it, go to my respect thread and read the FL fight (and there's no way that should be "banned" by the rules...I think I'll be looking into that). Seriously though. The only attack FL doesn't use is the one that could destroy a city. Other than that, he's going all out, and could disintegrate Spidey with one shot. But he can't, and Spidey punks him by hitting him a sick number of times without getting hit in return. It's not as much PIS as people seem to think. No one would argue that Starfire is beyond FL in terms of power, durability, or skill...and she doesn't have a city-block destroying attack either.

...

So where does that leave us?? It leaves us with a conundrum over whether or not you think SF would hit him a few times before Spidey walloped her enough to win. Either way is entirely possible, as I see it.

Again, if there's something I'm not considering about Starfire, please let me know...because I'm not an authority on her character by any means. But I think I've given her the credit she deserves, and pointed out that Spidey is no stranger to people in her power class.

I think LP knew what he doing when he made this thread. It's a decent fight. I'll shy away from a "This person wins X/10" because I realize I'm biased....but I just wanted to get my opinion out there.

-DM

The armor would make it a lot easier

im some wat a ironman fan, im not sure if this is true, but dosent his strenght depend on the suit he's wearing, im sure his first suit he wore wasent a class 100, but the thor or hulk buster is deffinalty mid 100class range.

DigiMark007 brings up a good point with the Firelord vs Spiderman fight. Was that PIS or could Spidey really take down a character of that level? IMO, no he could not. The reason isn't that Spiderman couldn't take advantage of a potential weakness (the stick), it is that given Firelord's power set Spidey should never have gotten close to him.

All Firelord would have to do is raise the temperature around his body (say a radius of 3 or 4 feet) up to a few thousand degrees Fahrenheit. Spiderman then could not even get close enought to attack him without getting severly burned.

Its this lack of using a basic power (raising temperature) by Firelord that discredits the fight in my mind.
-------

Now with Starfire I just think Spidey is out classed. First off, lifting an aircraft carrier is no small feat. It is comparable to Namor lifing a tanker and Ult. Colossus lifting that submarine. This puts her very high in the strength rankings in Marvel or DC (I would assume that would easily put her into the hundred ton range)

Now as to Spidey's durability, I realize that Marvel isn't too good at realisticly showing the relationship between durability and strenght. For example Hulk hitting Spidey (who only has perhaps slightly inhanced human durability) and only breaking a few ribs.

We can look at the Hulk/Wolverine fight: when the hulk his Wolverine in the face the force should be enough to turn all of the tissue between his fist and Wolverine's skull to mush. But that doesn't happen. A person in a high strength class should have no trouble punching through a human body with little effort.

In this fight, Starfire could simply wait for Spidey to get close and then launch a starbolt at the ground beneath her for a quick win. Or going hand to hand she still stands a good chance. All she has to do is get a single hand on Spidey and she can criple him easily. However, I'm not sure Spidey can really take her down. His new upgrades would help but I'm not sure it would be enough.

His speed would help but she has had combat training from WW and has had expericence with individual with much greater speed than Spiderman in DC.

I have doubts that Spiderman can aviod everyone of her attacks and still manage to inflict enough one-sided damage to beat her.

she's like ten times his durability speed and strength, and can shoot starbolts, plus she knows martial arts from all around the universe.
Spidey really has no chance here, get over it.

draco, could you post all of starfires powers?

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Hold the phone, who said he was stronger than Namor? I'm referring to him being stronger than Namor without being powered up by submerging in water. He is as strong as Namor is at his weakest.

If you mean that Spider-Man is on par with Namor on land, then you are wrong.
http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/7325/namorfeat393lr.gif
He packs a wallop on land too. He doesn't instantly get weaker on land...even on land, he is hundreds, if not thousands of times stronger then Spidey.

If you mean this as Namor on his weakest, as in completely dried out (Spent hours in a sauna) and hallucinating:
http://i1.tinypic.com/mj4fup.gif

Then you might be right.

----

Oh yeah, and Starfire wins.

Kahn addressed many of my points with good one's of his own. Let's take this a piece at a time.



The "temperature rise" trick is a good argument. But he's not fighting FL in this fight. He's fighting Starfire....who can't do anything like that anyway. Saying that beating Firelord was PIS is probably true, but it doesn't negate many of the things he accomplished in that fight....namely, inflicting tons of one-sided damage while dodging any attacks Firelord hurled at him (including building-crumbling fire blasts). Starfire doesn't have a One-Hit Kill attack for Spidey....or else I wouldn't be arguing for him.



None of which helps her hit him. Keep in mind, he's repeatedly dodged Hulk effortlessly, who's much stronger than SF. I'm not arguing that she isn't much stronger (because she is), but her durability isn't so high that Spidey can't hurt her. A class 15 smacking you around and smasheing you with really hard objects will get to almost anyone eventually.



He's as strong as roughly 100 strong human beings (give or take) and yet you only want to put him at "enhanced human durability"?? He's well beyond that. Enhanced human durability would get his arms ripped out every time he tries to swing from buildings.



Again, we're talking about Spidey, not Logan (who IS around enhanced human durability + the skeleton and healing). This argument doesn't really mean much....it makes a point, but not one that readily applies to Spidey.



As I stated, it's a question of whether or not she could get those 4-5 hits in before he pummels her. Spidey has taken blows from people in her power class, and also completely dodged people as fast as her. She's far from the fastest and most skilled he's ever fought.



Spider-Man has as many appearences as anyone....against very skilled foes, at that. Training doesn't help against someone who can dodge everything you do....including energy blasts (Spidey has dodged numerous blasts at the same time many time before). And I've never seen her do anything tht suggests she has faster fighting reflexes than your average brawler.



And your entitled to those doubts. I said earlier that it could easily go either way, and don't believe Spidey would win every time. But it's possible.

-DM

Starfire is class 100? Dumb. Just dumb. If anyone agrees with me on that, hopefully you'll understand why I don't read DC. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Can Spider-Man beat Firelord? Well, he sure as hell did TWICE! What is it with people overestimating DC and underestimating Marvel! Someone yesterday told me that Superman is smarter than Iron Man. Arrrrgh!


Spidey wins.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Kahn addressed many of my points with good one's of his own. Let's take this a piece at a time.



The "temperature rise" trick is a good argument. But he's not fighting FL in this fight. He's fighting Starfire....who can't do anything like that anyway. Saying that beating Firelord was PIS is probably true, but it doesn't negate many of the things he accomplished in that fight....namely, inflicting tons of one-sided damage while dodging any attacks Firelord hurled at him (including building-crumbling fire blasts). Starfire doesn't have a One-Hit Kill attack for Spidey....or else I wouldn't be arguing for him.-DM

I was not suggesting that Starfire could use that temperature trick, just stating why I think FL vs SP is a case of PIS to me. In that fight Spidey had to avoid EVERY attack from Firelord or else he would be dead. Which is either a good show of Spidey's agility or a forced consequence of him fighting a herald level character and living through it.

Originally posted by DigiMark007

None of which helps her hit him. Keep in mind, he's repeatedly dodged Hulk effortlessly, who's much stronger than SF. I'm not arguing that she isn't much stronger (because she is), but her durability isn't so high that Spidey can't hurt her. A class 15 smacking you around and smasheing you with really hard objects will get to almost anyone eventually.-DM

The problem is that Spidey does get hit in fights. He does have good agility (the level of which does vairy with writers) but he isn't untouchable. The fight with the Hulk is a similar situation to Firelord, Spidey actually says "I can't let the Hulk get one hit or it'll kill me" or something like that. Writers have Spidey avoid every punch when the opponent has the strength to instantly kill him and let him get hit when the opponent is weaker. Her durability I'm not sure about and hopefully someone knows for sure. She can however survive in space without aid so that has to count for something.

Originally posted by DigiMark007

He's as strong as roughly 100 strong human beings (give or take) and yet you only want to put him at "enhanced human durability"?? He's well beyond that. Enhanced human durability would get his arms ripped out every time he tries to swing from buildings.-DM

Strength and druability do not nessarly go together (see the mutant sunspot). Now Spiderman does have some added durability but it isn't that much compared to even other "street-level" characters like Luke Cage and the extent of it isn't that clear.

Originally posted by DigiMark007

Again, we're talking about Spidey, not Logan (who IS around enhanced human durability + the skeleton and healing). This argument doesn't really mean much....it makes a point, but not one that readily applies to Spidey.-DM

My point was that a punch from a character like the Hulk is often not portrayed accuratly. He can punch through solid steel but can only give Pete broken ribs and Wolverine's skin isn't even damaged by it.

Originally posted by DigiMark007

As I stated, it's a question of whether or not she could get those 4-5 hits in before he pummels her. Spidey has taken blows from people in her power class, and also completely dodged people as fast as her. She's far from the fastest and most skilled he's ever fought.-DM

Imo, Spidey taking what I would say were Namor level punches is a bit of a streach. His body isn't that durable (he still can be shot and have his bones broken). And while Spiderman can be written to a point where he is impossible to hit, slower characters have done it before.

Originally posted by DigiMark007

Spider-Man has as many appearences as anyone....against very skilled foes, at that. Training doesn't help against someone who can dodge everything you do....including energy blasts (Spidey has dodged numerous blasts at the same time many time before). And I've never seen her do anything tht suggests she has faster fighting reflexes than your average brawler.-DM

Again his ability to dodge EVERYTHING is a bit suspect to me in this fight. Also like in the fight with the Hulk, the force from even a near hit of one of her explotions could be enough to stun Spidey. Add to that the fact that she can fly (at faster than light speed no less) and I have a hard time seeing Spidey even getting that close.

Originally posted by DigiMark007

And your entitled to those doubts. I said earlier that it could easily go either way, and don't believe Spidey would win every time. But it's possible.-DM

I don't want to come off as bashing Spidey (his was the first comic I ever read and he does kick a lot of ass) and I can see him wining a few rounds. But all she has to do is fly above the buildings and she is effectivly out his his range while he remains in hers.

Besides Spidey would be distracted during the fight. He has a thing for redheadsdiva




drool

All Firelord would have to do is raise the temperature around his body (say a radius of 3 or 4 feet) up to a few thousand degrees Fahrenheit. Spiderman then could not even get close enought to attack him without getting severly burned.

Its this lack of using a basic power (raising temperature) by Firelord that discredits the fight in my mind.

He is bound to his honor. He had said that he could have destroyed Spidey and the city in an instant, but wanted to win in single combat. I think the ability to raise temperature takes into account here. So that leaves Firelord with strength, speed, projectiles, and durability. Which was what he was defeated in, despite being a former herald of galactucus.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
He is bound to his honor. He had said that he could have destroyed Spidey and the city in an instant, but wanted to win in single combat. I think the ability to raise temperature takes into account here. So that leaves Firelord with strength, speed, projectiles, and durability. Which was what he was defeated in, despite being a former herald of galactucus.

That would still be single combat and wouldn't destroy the city. Just heat the air immedately around him and Spidey wouldn't be able to get near him. It would be like a passive armor and not nearly as destructive as projectiles.

Again that is why to me its classic PIS. He "limits" himself so Spidey has a chance to win. Remember that Firelord controls energies that encompass the entire electromagnetic spectrum possessed by a star: heat, light, gravity, radio waves, and charged particles and yet he couldn't beat Spiderman

1000 times stronger than Spidey? Definately 10 or more, if we are considering him in water, but certainly not 100-1000 out of water. Just check out that fight in DigiMark007's respect thread. The Submariner hadn't been out of water long, and Spiderman still put up a good fight against him. It certainly didn't look like the Submariner was packing blows 100x better than Spidey's.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
1000 times stronger than Spidey? Definately 10 or more, if we are considering him in water, but certainly not 100-1000 out of water. Just check out that fight in DigiMark007's respect thread. The Submariner hadn't been out of water long, and Spiderman still put up a good fight against him. It certainly didn't look like the Submariner was packing blows 100x better than Spidey's.


Namor lifts an 50 ton tank with one hand and throws it hard enough to hit a flying Boeing 747 that Iron Man is on. Namor is a beast in or out of water. He is way more than 10x stronger than Pete
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8104/namorfeat393lr8bn.th.gif

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
1000 times stronger than Spidey? Definately 10 or more, if we are considering him in water, but certainly not 100-1000 out of water. Just check out that fight in DigiMark007's respect thread. The Submariner hadn't been out of water long, and Spiderman still put up a good fight against him. It certainly didn't look like the Submariner was packing blows 100x better than Spidey's.

Majorly pissed off Hulk has hit Spider-Man who survived no bad injuries. Hulk is probably hundreds of thousands times stronger then Spider-Man.

It's all for the sake of the fight. It wouldn't be nice if Spider-Man's head would explode when he fights people like Namore and Hulk, would it?

Namor's strength does not diminish on land immediately. And while on land, he is at least few hundred times stronger then Spider-Man.

Yeah, I agreed to him being 10 or more times stronger than Peter. I just don't agree with him being 100 or 1000 times stronger.

Originally posted by Marcus4600
Starfire is class 100? Dumb. Just dumb. If anyone agrees with me on that, hopefully you'll understand why I don't read DC. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Because DC takes more of a Greek Mythology/Gods among men approach whereas Marvel takes a slightly more down-to-earth approach and shows them as humans with powers as opposed to powers acting human?


Even then he's wrong. Starfire in the cartoon is stronger than Cyborg. Unless Cyborg is class 40(highly doubt it), Starfires WAY stronger than class 50.


Morlun only FEELS like he's stronger than Thor because he's draining energy the entire time.

Spidey vs. Firelord has good, plausible feats, but it DOES come with a LOT of CIS, and a little PIS as well. It's definitely not good to say that "Spidey beat Firelord, therefore he beats Starfire", but dodging fire blasts is still dodging fire blasts. It's a valid feat, any way you look at it.

That said, Starfire is a beast. She definitely is class 100, as she brawled with WW for a little bit. Her durability is also pretty high. I'm not going to say she wins 10/10 with no problems, but she should get most, if not every fight fairly solidly. Spiderman is simply outclassed, and without CIS, it WOULD be a curbstomp. Disregarding a wide angled nova style attack, (saying Spidey defeated HT isn't valid either, as Johnny hasn't USED it on him) Starfire's much too good a fighter to get beat by simple dodging ability. Spiderman will get some hits if he avoids her, but even human martial artists have given him a lot of trouble. Starfire is a very good in h2h, and if she gets a finger on Spidey, he's done. And she can take plenty of what he can bring, so I see her taking advantage of his relatively low strength, allowing him a free shot, and grabbing or blowing off his arm, while taking the hit. Quite honestly, the combination of physical advantages is stacked way too heavily against him for me to give Parker much of a chance. It would be an interesting fight, but ultimately, Starfire should win 9/10 or so, factoring in CIS.

Also keep in mind that most of the time Spidey gets hit anymore, it's because of some plot device or it's because he's distracted somehow (i.e. "Had to save that women from falling...couldn't jump out of the way of Scorpion's stinger in time" Stuff like that. I can't remember the last time he legitimately got hit by someone that didn't involve some outside influence. The "fanboy Spidey" that can't get hit ever is a bit too far...but the truth is closer to it than lots of people think.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Yeah, I agreed to him being 10 or more times stronger than Peter. I just don't agree with him being 100 or 1000 times stronger.

He's like Class 200,000 on water.

Him being 100 times stronger would be about Class 1500, 1000 times would be about Class 15,000.

I don't see him weakening THAT much on land. Especially if fresh from water.

Originally posted by MuffinmanMike
Because DC takes more of a Greek Mythology/Gods among men approach whereas Marvel takes a slightly more down-to-earth approach and shows them as humans with powers as opposed to powers acting human?

Yup. I prefer the humanity part. It adds much more depth to a character in my opinion.

I was just going to sit out, but this is beginning to annoy me. You can mock me as much as you want, or call me a fanboy. You can even compare me to Wolverine1888. I don't care.

You people always make it a big deal, when Spiderman beats a character you don't think he should have beaten. I can understand, if it's out of canon, but in this case, it isn't. Spiderman defeated fire lord, and whether you like it or not, the company accepted it, and so did the authors. So what you say about PIS doesn't make any difference. It happened.

Most of you have completely misunderstood the purpose of that storyline, or any storyline more to the point. The point of the story was not show off how great Spiderman was(no, this wasn't a DC storyline). The point was to show that powers, rather feats, mean nothing. That it's all about will.

In the words of Goku from DragonballZ- "Even a loser can surpass an elite"

And in this case, Spiderman was the loser. Sure, Firelord can level a city, can raise his temperature to levels supernatural, can move faster than a speeding bullet, can yadda yadda yadda. I don't care if he can bench press 50x the national debt. None of that can compare to an underdog's determination.

Just take a look at the Revolutionary War for example. America was completely outclassed, in terms of military power, experience, and sheer numbers, you name it. They had all of the disadvantages in the world. But who won in the end? America. So what's so hard to comprehend about Spiderman defeating fire lord?

This point about PIS is irrelevant. A good example of PIS would be Superman accidentally sneezing out a whole universe on one event, yet on countless(and I do mean countless) other times, having trouble stopping a free falling airplane. We don't ever see anyone complaining about that. We hardly even see anyone having a problem with Batman taking down Superman or Amazo.

If it's a comparison of powers, then Sure, Starfire would win 10/10. But this thread is not titled Spiderman's powers vs Starfire's powers, now is it? No. It's Spiderman vs Starfire. Would Parker win?
I don't know. But one things for sure: Win or lose, he would give her a fight that she would remember for the rest of her life. Guarenteed.

Engage.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
You people always make it a big deal, when Spiderman beats a character you don't think he should have beaten. I can understand, if it's out of canon, but in this case, it isn't. Spiderman defeated fire lord, and whether you like it or not, the company accepted it, and so did the authors. So what you say about PIS doesn't make any difference. It happened.

That's what PIS is... Stuff that HAPPENED that shouldn't have. Batman has punched out Solomon Grundy twice.



Last I checked, the purpose of storylines is to tell a story, actually. And when talking about the adventures of superheroes... Powers mean a hell of a lot. And even if the sole purpose of most comics isn't to create feats for a character, discussion of feats IS what this forum is for.



Depends on the degree of the loser and the elite. As I recall, Goku typically defeats opponents by making himself stronger than them and blasting them into oblivion. So I don't know how much water this quote holds.



Exactly. Spiderman's victory means relatively little because Firelord did NONE of that, when it's clearly within his power to do so. The mystical "power of heart" isn't all that it's cracked up to be. If it was, Thing would be friggin TOAA.



Actually, America "won" the Revolutionary War because England was on the verge of war in Europe, and didn't want to commit the troops necessary to achieve victory. Guess what happened in the War of 1812, when England decided to prove that they COULD have killed us all? Correct, they kicked our asses. They really didn't want us back as colonies, so they contented themselves with burning down Washington and leaving, but we DID lose.



That was Pre-Crisis Superman... the same one that chased down specific rays of light across the universe and captured them on film. Then turned around and got spanked by a monkey. And people DO have a problem with Batman beating Supes. It's NEVER used in Batman debates as seriosu evidence, because batman talks through most of one of their fights about how the entire thing is heavy CIS.



Yup.



I dunno, 3 second fights aren't typically that memorable...

The thing is, this essentially IS Starfire's powers vs. Spiderman's powers. What else is there? His charming personality? Plot devices? Crappy writing? The "it factor"? HEART!? Have you read the forum rules? If not, DO IT NOW! If so, DO IT AGAIN. (and read for a general comprehension this time)

Originally posted by Dizzle
That's what PIS is... Stuff that HAPPENED that shouldn't have. Batman has punched out Solomon Grundy twice.



Last I checked, the purpose of storylines is to tell a story, actually. And when talking about the adventures of superheroes... Powers mean a hell of a lot. And even if the sole purpose of most comics isn't to create feats for a character, discussion of feats IS what this forum is for.



Depends on the degree of the loser and the elite. As I recall, Goku typically defeats opponents by making himself stronger than them and blasting them into oblivion. So I don't know how much water this quote holds.



Exactly. Spiderman's victory means relatively little because Firelord did NONE of that, when it's clearly within his power to do so. The mystical "power of heart" isn't all that it's cracked up to be. If it was, Thing would be friggin TOAA.



Actually, America "won" the Revolutionary War because England was on the verge of war in Europe, and didn't want to commit the troops necessary to achieve victory. Guess what happened in the War of 1812, when England decided to prove that they COULD have killed us all? Correct, they kicked our asses. They really didn't want us back as colonies, so they contented themselves with burning down Washington and leaving, but we DID lose.



That was Pre-Crisis Superman... the same one that chased down specific rays of light across the universe and captured them on film. Then turned around and got spanked by a monkey. And people DO have a problem with Batman beating Supes. It's NEVER used in Batman debates as seriosu evidence, because batman talks through most of one of their fights about how the entire thing is heavy CIS.



Yup.



I dunno, 3 second fights aren't typically that memorable...

The thing is, this essentially IS Starfire's powers vs. Spiderman's powers. What else is there? His charming personality? Plot devices? Crappy writing? The "it factor"? HEART!? Have you read the forum rules? If not, DO IT NOW! If so, DO IT AGAIN. (and read for a general comprehension this time)


I couldn't have said it better myself Dizzle.

Originally posted by TheKahn
I couldn't have said it better myself Dizzle.

Always a fan of that, thanks.

That's what PIS is... Stuff that HAPPENED that shouldn't have. Batman has punched out Solomon Grundy twice.

I respect your opinion, but............ it's not your comic book; you didn't create it, so you, nor anyone else has no say in what should not have happened. Fact is, it happened to be in a fully canonical storyline.

Last I checked, the purpose of storylines is to tell a story, actually. And when talking about the adventures of superheroes... Powers mean a hell of a lot. And even if the sole purpose of most comics isn't to create feats for a character, discussion of feats IS what this forum is for.

Fair enough, however, strories usually have multiple purposes, and the one I had mentioned was also the purpose. Discussion of characters IS what this forum is for, otherwise, threads wouldn't last long, considering that it would be so easy to determine the winner, after merely comparing a laudary list of super powers.

Depends on the degree of the loser and the elite. As I recall, Goku typically defeats opponents by making himself stronger than them and blasting them into oblivion. So I don't know how much water this quote holds.

This was way back when DBZ was actually good. It was during his first fight with Vegeta, in which Vegeta outlclassed him in every way.


Exactly. Spiderman's victory means relatively little because Firelord did NONE of that, when it's clearly within his power to do so. The mystical "power of heart" isn't all that it's cracked up to be. If it was, Thing would be friggin TOAA.

That's not really my point, however, Firelord did have his endurance, his precision, strength, and powers to be used in single combat. The writer made it quite clear why Fire lord wouldn't use all of his powers. Spiderman's powers don't compare to even those, yet he won. Call it whatever you like, but it won't change the fact that it's canon, and that Spiderman has beaten characters that he 'should not have beaten' more times than just this event.

Actually, America "won" the Revolutionary War because England was on the verge of war in Europe, and didn't want to commit the troops necessary to achieve victory. Guess what happened in the War of 1812, when England decided to prove that they COULD have killed us all? Correct, they kicked our asses. They really didn't want us back as colonies, so they contented themselves with burning down Washington and leaving, but we DID lose.

Check up on your history. America fought Britain to a standstil. America had its naval victories, and britain had its wins against napoleon and america Over all though, America's only fault was being ill-prepared towards the end. However, America gained more out of this war. I thought everyone knew this. As for the Revolutionary war, a majority of the battles involved the americans being outnumbered, and led by commanders with no experience whatsoever. Read up on the battle of bunker hill, if you don't believe me. By the way, we officially started the fight again Britain for 1812. Britain didn't just decide to prove who would win.

This should clear everything up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812


The thing is, this essentially IS Starfire's powers vs. Spiderman's powers. What else is there? His charming personality? Plot devices? Crappy writing? The "it factor"? HEART!? Have you read the forum rules? If not, DO IT NOW! If so, DO IT AGAIN. (and read for a general comprehension this time)

What else is there? Who controls the powers of course. The one who controls the powers makes all the difference. With that, we can compare the wielders train of thought, experience, etc. What kind of gambit is this? Of course you discuss the characters and the powers here. I've seen it myself. Otherwise, there is no argument, since you'll always be able to determine the winner from merely 'comparing' powers side by side. As far as plot devices and crappy writing, that's the weakest counter argument I've heard. Not only is it subjective, but we find those quite constantly within both titles.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin

I respect your opinion, but............ it's not your comic book; you didn't create it, so you, nor anyone else has no say in what should not have happened. Fact is, it happened to be in a fully canonical storyline.



Okay.

Let's assume that Batman would be fighting etc. Blockbuster in some issue. He has to dodge Blockbuster constantly, and when Blockbuster punches him, he's put down.

Next issue, pissed of Superman punches him as hard as he can, and Batman survives alive.

Superman is millions of times stronger then Blockbuster. If Blockbuster's punches hurt Batman, Superman's should outright kill him.

But he survives alive. Is it good to use this as example in Versus forums? No.



Actually, this forum is for discussion of characters:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/

Versus forum is about discussion of powers, skills and feats.

Not about how could their battle spirit is. Because it's not going to help you when your enemy can finish you before you have even a chance to start fighting. That's why the rules say this:

No Mentioning Events of PIS

Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman.

If we would take the character's mind itself on consideration, then we wouldn't have Flash and Superman speedblitzing people.

And that's why you can't say that Spider-Man would beat Firelord in rematch if they both used their powers to their fullest extent. Because Spider-Man would simply get vaporized in 0.03 seconds.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Nightwing/Robins are by extension Batman and thus they can do anything.
Originally posted by Dizzle
That's what PIS is... Stuff that HAPPENED that shouldn't have. Batman has punched out Solomon Grundy twice.

Last I checked, the purpose of storylines is to tell a story, actually. And when talking about the adventures of superheroes... Powers mean a hell of a lot. And even if the sole purpose of most comics isn't to create feats for a character, discussion of feats IS what this forum is for.

Depends on the degree of the loser and the elite. As I recall, Goku typically defeats opponents by making himself stronger than them and blasting them into oblivion. So I don't know how much water this quote holds.

Exactly. Spiderman's victory means relatively little because Firelord did NONE of that, when it's clearly within his power to do so. The mystical "power of heart" isn't all that it's cracked up to be. If it was, Thing would be friggin TOAA.

Actually, America "won" the Revolutionary War because England was on the verge of war in Europe, and didn't want to commit the troops necessary to achieve victory. Guess what happened in the War of 1812, when England decided to prove that they COULD have killed us all? Correct, they kicked our asses. They really didn't want us back as colonies, so they contented themselves with burning down Washington and leaving, but we DID lose.

That was Pre-Crisis Superman... the same one that chased down specific rays of light across the universe and captured them on film. Then turned around and got spanked by a monkey. And people DO have a problem with Batman beating Supes. It's NEVER used in Batman debates as seriosu evidence, because batman talks through most of one of their fights about how the entire thing is heavy CIS.

Yup.

I dunno, 3 second fights aren't typically that memorable...

The thing is, this essentially IS Starfire's powers vs. Spiderman's powers. What else is there? His charming personality? Plot devices? Crappy writing? The "it factor"? HEART!? Have you read the forum rules? If not, DO IT NOW! If so, DO IT AGAIN. (and read for a general comprehension this time) droolio You complete me...

Starfire wins.

http://unf-unf.de/show1081.html

this should make you feel better

BTW:

Classic Spidey cant really win against Starfire. Use Iron Spidey that would be a better match up.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Okay.

Let's assume that Batman would be fighting etc. Blockbuster in some issue. He has to dodge Blockbuster constantly, and when Blockbuster punches him, he's put down.

Next issue, pissed of Superman punches him as hard as he can, and Batman survives alive.

Superman is millions of times stronger then Blockbuster. If Blockbuster's punches hurt Batman, Superman's should outright kill him.

But he survives alive. Is it good to use this as example in Versus forums? No.



Actually, this forum is for discussion of characters:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/

Versus forum is about discussion of powers, skills and feats.

Not about how could their battle spirit is. Because it's not going to help you when your enemy can finish you before you have even a chance to start fighting. That's why the rules say this:

No Mentioning Events of PIS

Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman.

If we would take the character's mind itself on consideration, then we wouldn't have Flash and Superman speedblitzing people.

And that's why you can't say that Spider-Man would beat Firelord in rematch if they both used their powers to their fullest extent. Because Spider-Man would simply get vaporized in 0.03 seconds.

Your example is a little extreme(by the way, toy man was only a match for superman because of careful planning, and Superman's moral code). Not only that, but again, it was constantly explained why Spiderman was a match for Firelord.

Now if the rematch were as you say, and that it was basically two androids given the powers of both character's, Fire lord's powers would win. But really, there's hardly any fun in just doing that. Pointless, since it's too easy to determine a winner by merely comparing super powers. It's like comparing the numbers 5 to 10. I'm surprised there are actually Batman versus threads here. Alas, I've ranted on long enough. Ciao.

Gah....I see no one has the heart to challenge my position on the subject. You're content attacking Kenshin (who's not doing terrible but made the egregious error of using a DBZ quote in this forum, which single-handedly ruins anything else he said... ).

I stand by my guns....but don't feel like posting any of it again (I have a couple lengthy posts a page or two back). And thanks to whoever bumped this....this is a good thread.

You can't bash me that much. Nearly everyone used to like dbz at one point. Not that I still like it, but I can't forget one of the best lines from when the story was actually good.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Gah....I see no one has the heart to challenge my position on the subject. You're content attacking Kenshin (who's not doing terrible but made the egregious error of using a DBZ quote in this forum, which single-handedly ruins anything else he said... ).

I stand by my guns....but don't feel like posting any of it again (I have a couple lengthy posts a page or two back). And thanks to whoever bumped this....this is a good thread.

Digi , Digi, Digi

I knew your were a big spiderman fan but I did not know you were this biased


Starfire can go head to head withpeople like Orion as seen in JLA/Titans The Technis Imperative, and Wonder Woman (in Teen Titans #6 I beleive)

So Digi use common sense
While Spidey may be able to doge slower heavy hitters like Jugernaut and Hulk he won't have a chance to doge Starfires blasts or nova attacks.

Now I bet you'll come after this with the spiderman has spidey sense and can dodge anythng argument (JK)

Originally posted by dman2008
Digi , Digi, Digi

I knew your were a big spiderman fan but I did not know you were this biased


Starfire can go head to head withpeople like Orion as seen in JLA/Titans The Technis Imperative, and Wonder Woman (in Teen Titans #6 I beleive)

So Digi use common sense
While Spidey may be able to doge slower heavy hitters like Jugernaut and Hulk he won't have a chance to doge Starfires blasts or nova attacks.

Now I bet you'll come after this with the spiderman has spidey sense and can dodge anythng argument (JK)

Actually, I'm pretty sure I used intelligent points my friend....

Oh, and that's Johnny that has the Nova blast....you're confusing your characters now. I've never seen Starfire do anything except regular-sized eneergy attacks....which Spidey dodges all the time without even thinking about it. She's also not so durable that Spidey can't hurt her. It would just take quite a pounding.

My conclusion earlier is that the fight could go either way. I'd even go so far as to say SF would probably take the majority. But a Spidey win is definitely a possibility.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Actually, I'm pretty sure I used intelligent points my friend....

Oh, and that's Johnny that has the Nova blast....you're confusing your characters now. I've never seen Starfire do anything except regular-sized eneergy attacks....which Spidey dodges all the time without even thinking about it.

My conclusion earlier is that the fight could go either way. I'd even go so far as to say SF would probably take the majority. But a Spidey win is definitely a possibility.

She used one in Outsiders 25 and one of the recent issues when Jade Shift and Her are Helping Donna Troy in space. It's an attack comparable to Human Torches beleive me.

My main problem with Spidey winning is his disadvantage with flyers (although writers rarely seem to exploit this). His main method of locomotion is web-swinging. This limits the altitude he can reach to the height of the tallest nearby buildings. Anything above that, Spidey would have great difficulty in sucessfully attacking.

What is to prevent Starfire from simply flying above the tallest building and simply hurling starbolts at Spiderman until she hits him? The would mean that she would be on the offensive and experience no threat of an attack by Spidey. While his speed and agility would enable him to avoid most of the attacks, but eventually the fact that he is constantly having to dodge and keep on the move would tire him (as opposed to Starfire who is simply hovering in place). A starbolt would eventually get close enough to Spidey to stun him and then the fight would be over.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin


Now if the rematch were as you say, and that it was basically two androids given the powers of both character's, Fire lord's powers would win. But really, there's hardly any fun in just doing that. Pointless, since it's too easy to determine a winner by merely comparing super powers. It's like comparing the numbers 5 to 10. I'm surprised there are actually Batman versus threads here. Alas, I've ranted on long enough. Ciao.

As long as it is within someone's power to do something, he/she can do so.

It is within Firelords power to fly up the air and fry Spider-Man.

It doesn't matter if it isn't fun. He can do so, and therefore it is a plausible strategy.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

droolio You complete me...

Starfire wins.

droolio

ATTACKING DIGI'S POINTS!!!

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Starfire can fly at FTL speeds, but travel speed and fight speed are very, very different. I've never seen her fight fast enough to assume that she's anything beyond "good reflexes and fighting skill". If someone can tell me otherwise, I'd be happy to reconsider this fight.

I'd agree that Spiderman would do a lot of dodging in this fight. THe "3 second fight" thing was sarcasm, I really do believe that it would take longer than that.



Who has he dodged consistantly who is comparable to Starfire in both skill and speed? She's just about as fast and almost as skilled as Namor, though not as strong. I don't remember Spidey ever taking down Namor, becasue he is a good mix of physical power, speed, and skill, just as Starfire is. (When compared to Parker... I'd personally vote Namor in a fight between the two, but it'd be close as hell)



It's possible, if she both tones down her speed, skills, and intelligence, AND fails to use any of her better energy attacks. Which, for me, would be the very definition of a PIS win,, which is why I still regard Spidey vs. Firelord as PIS. Spidey didn't fight Firelord, Spidey fought some moderately fast guy with no skills, mediocre durability, and some simple fire blasts. That isn't even close to what Firelord can do, even going for minimal area destruction.



Again, Firelord had amny many things that he could have done to kill Spidey, while still minimizing damage to the surrounding area. I agree, the feats done by Spiderman in the fight are good, but Firelord is written well below almost every single one of his capabilities. Except possibly for the size of his ego.



I just simply don't see him getting in that many hits before she realizes she needs to use a bit more energy. The simply fact that she HAS an omnidirectional attack, coupled with the fact that it would take a LOT of hits to put her down, makes a non-PIS/CIS victory for Spiderman nearly impossible.



I think you're underestimating Starfire a tad, mostly because of her starbolts. What's to stop her from blasting the ground from under them while Spidey tries to hit her? She can take it, Spiderman probably can't. If she's seriously in trouble, she can blast in all directions at once, which WOULD be impossible for Spidey to dodge. She's simply too durable and versatile for Spiderman to put down before she takes the appropriate actions to all but guarantee a victory.



That or it's a spite thread gone wrong. Whatevah.

Respectable Dizzle....well said.

I've never actually seen her do one of those "energy in every direction" attacks but if she can, then things change a bit. But in, say, a city environment in would still be possible as all heck for Spidey to not get hit by it.

Oh, and you wanted people he's dodged and/or fought. He fought Namor without getting hit for quite a while, though there wasn't an actual winner. He's fought the Hulk several times, and pretty much the only thing that's ever hit him has been a thunderclap. Not to bring this up again, but FL was taking down buildings with some of his blasts...so they were hardly his tiniest shots. Hell, he beat Superboy in a crossover, though I realize the massive PIS involved with that. He's dodged similarly building-destroying blasts from Surfer (when he was wearing the symbiote). He's webbed Quicksilver and repeatedly dodged Speed Demon, so that has to count for a ton. And the ridiculous amount of times he's dodged multiple blasts at the same time, whether it's bullet fire or energy blasts, also is a credit to his dodging skill.

Also keep in mind he recently beat Hulk in a canon comic (the one where Electro is watching on TV). Hulk's in rage mode, so he probably forgets about his thunderclap, but Spidey's whups the crap out of him with fire hydrants, busses, etc. Again, some CIS, but it shows what he's capable of with some motivation.

In any case, I've still always stated that SF would win the majority here. I've simply been trying to show that it wouldn't be impossible for Spidey to take her down.

"Originally posted by DigiMark007
Starfire can fly at FTL speeds, but travel speed and fight speed are very, very different. I've never seen her fight fast enough to assume that she's anything beyond "good reflexes and fighting skill". If someone can tell me otherwise, I'd be happy to reconsider this fight."


If Starfire can fly at faster than light speed, why can't she simply accelerate through Spiderman's body? All she would have to do is to be able to see Spiderman and then jump to FTL speed with a path that would go through where Spidey is standing.

She may not be able to fight at that speed, but I'd imagine that in order to fly faster than light her acceleration should be resonably faster than Spiderman can react to. Now her durability isn't that of Superman so whatever part of her body that contacts Spidey at that speed would be damaged, but I'd think he would come off the worst from it.

Originally posted by TheKahn
"Originally posted by DigiMark007
Starfire can fly at FTL speeds, but travel speed and fight speed are very, very different. I've never seen her fight fast enough to assume that she's anything beyond "good reflexes and fighting skill". If someone can tell me otherwise, I'd be happy to reconsider this fight."


If Starfire can fly at faster than light speed, why can't she simply accelerate through Spiderman's body? All she would have to do is to be able to see Spiderman and then jump to FTL speed with a path that would go through where Spidey is standing.

She may not be able to fight at that speed, but I'd imagine that in order to fly faster than light her acceleration should be resonably faster than Spiderman can react to. Now her durability isn't that of Superman so whatever part of her body that contacts Spidey at that speed would be damaged, but I'd think he would come off the worst from it.

Meh...when is that sort of attack ever used? Ever?

Besides, if he knows she's attacking, he'll just jump aside...even if it's fast he'll still have a second or two notice before she strikes. The idea behind differentiating between flight and combat speeds is that she has less control over the flight speed. If she misses, she can't turn on a dime and smack Spidey at 500 mph or something like that.

You guys are still missing the point. I've always been willing to give SF the majority....I just don't see it as a curbstomp like you do.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Meh...when is that sort of attack ever used? Ever?

Besides, if he knows she's attacking, he'll just jump aside...even if it's fast he'll still have a second or two notice before she strikes. The idea behind differentiating between flight and combat speeds is that she has less control over the flight speed. If she misses, she can't turn on a dime and smack Spidey at 500 mph or something like that.

You guys are still missing the point. I've always been willing to give SF the majority....I just don't see it as a curbstomp like you do.

I think ti really would be a good fight, but I don't think Spiderman's offense will EVER be good enough to put down Starfire. He could EVENTUALLY but it would take a hell of a lot, where she is both fast, strong, and versatile. He would give her a run, but his chances for actual victory would be very very small. So while I agree that it wouldn't be a curbstomp, per se, (he would get a lot of hits, but usually not nearly enough to put her down) Starfire would get a very solid majority, something like 9/10.