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Fight takes place in the deep blackness of space.


Who wins? Kill or be killed.

Gonna be tough, considering I doubt Surfer will know of his weakness to fire. Given that's not a physical weakness that can be learned, but rather a psychological one.

Originally posted by Juntai
Gonna be tough, considering I doubt Surfer will know of his weakness to fire. Given that's not a physical weakness that can be learned, but rather a psychological one.

Surfer would scan his mind.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Surfer would scan his mind. I'm sure he's going to enter Martian Manhunter's mind to find his weakness.

Umm Silver Surfer wins via Speedblitz?

Surfer's Cosmic awareness will allow him to find the weakness to fire. This isn't even a matchup. Surfer 10/10

Originally posted by tdawg14
Surfer's Cosmic awareness will allow him to find the weakness to fire. This isn't even a matchup. Surfer 10/10 It's a psychological weakness of fire used in specific manners. Not a physical weakness. I doubt he's just going to figure it out with ease.

Got some scans of him doing it to someone?

Its not just plain fire MM has a weakness to. Its the suffering and death that goes with it. I remember him talking with Superman at one time. He was saying something like plain fire doesnt bother him. Something like that.

Plus how would Surfer know the weakness due to cosmic awareness? Its not a weakness he can exploit due to genetic makeup like Superman, Gladiator or Hulk.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Its not just plain fire MM has a weakness to. Its the suffering and death that goes with it. I remember him talking with Superman at one time. He was saying something like plain fire doesnt bother him. Something like that.

Plus how would Surfer know the weakness due to cosmic awareness? Its not a weakness he can exploit due to genetic makeup like Superman, Gladiator or Hulk. exactly.

I don't have any scans but there is a comic that the Surfer tells Gladiator how easily he can take him cause he knew his weakness to radiation. It's in the Surfer respect thread.

Originally posted by Juntai
I'm sure he's going to enter Martian Manhunter's mind to find his weakness.



No, but being a telepath he can read his mind to find his weakness. What's so unbelievable about that?

lol

Originally posted by tdawg14
I don't have any scans but there is a comic that the Surfer tells Gladiator how easily he can take him cause he knew his weakness to radiation. It's in the Surfer respect thread.

Its a physical weakness due to Gladiators genetics.

MM's "fire weakness" is mental.

Originally posted by tdawg14
I don't have any scans but there is a comic that the Surfer tells Gladiator how easily he can take him cause he knew his weakness to radiation. It's in the Surfer respect thread. That's a physical weakness though. Martian Manhunter is NOT weak to fire physically. That's what we're trying to tell you.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
No, but being a telepath he can read his mind to find his weakness. What's so unbelievable about that?

lol Maybe the fact that Martian Manhunter is probably way out of his league telepathy-wise.

Originally posted by Juntai
Maybe the fact that Martian Manhunter is probably way out of his league telepathy-wise.

But what could MM do to Silver Surfer? I don't actually know too much about Martian Manhunter, but according to my limited knowledge his powerset is way less versatile and powerful than Surfer's.

Silver surfer wins.

Originally posted by Juntai
Maybe the fact that Martian Manhunter is probably way out of his league telepathy-wise.

Way out of his league? I think not.

Martian Manhunter poses no threat to SS in a telepathic battle.

http://www.geocities.com/bruno_nojunk/type-telepathy-8.html

And SS would be able to probe his mind and find his weakness.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Martian Manhunter poses no threat to SS in a telepathic battle.

http://www.geocities.com/bruno_nojunk/type-telepathy-8.html

And SS would be able to probe his mind and find his weakness. None of those feats show him probing or telepathically battling anyones mind on the level of Martian Manhunter.

Originally posted by Juntai
None of those feats show him probing or telepathically battling anyones mind on the level of Martian Manhunter.

apare from the being of pure psionic energy right?

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
apare from the being of pure psionic energy right? Nothing shows them being more powerful than Martian Manhunter.
Hulk is a being of strength, and there's tons of characters stronger than him.

Silver Surfer doesn't have to use his telepathy, he could just disperse MM's molecules around the galaxy.

Originally posted by Tshern
Silver Surfer doesn't have to use his telepathy, he could just disperse MM's molecules around the galaxy. Martian Manhunter has control of his own molecules. Either way, he can simply keep on inside of the Astral.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
apare from the being of pure psionic energy right?

Looks like Surfer wouldve been finished if it werent for the girl. Plus we dont even know how powerful they are. They had the opportunity to hit Sufer but didnt. Something MM would surely take advantage of.

Surfer probably would win most encounters, just not in the faulty ways you guys are coming up with. He'll have his hands full with Jonn though, especially since Jonn is like Xavier+ and Superman and Plastic Man wrapped into one, and has no weakness Surfer will be able to discern. Meanwhile Surfer in those screens shown earlier is decently succeptible to telepathic attacks, which is just basics for MM. Not to mention people on MM's strength level have knocked Surfer around from time to time.

Originally posted by Juntai
Surfer probably would win most encounters, just not in the faulty ways you guys are coming up with. He'll have his hands full with Jonn though, especially since Jonn is like Xavier+ and Superman and Plastic Man wrapped into one, and has no weakness Surfer will be able to discern.

Xavier?

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Xavier? Plus.
He just has morals against using his telepathic powers.

I believe you, as I told I have very limited knowledge of MM's powers and such. It's nice to learn every once in a while.

Originally posted by Tshern
I believe you, as I told I have very limited knowledge of MM's powers and such. It's nice to learn every once in a while. He's a shape-shifter, and can do invisible, and intangible, very vast mental powers.. He has strenth, speed, flight, and pretty much every vision power Superman has as well and nearly as good at all of them. He has 11 senses, and is one of the smartest heros there is. I'm sure I'm also forgetting some. This guy is insane powerful.

yes I cannot wait for the day enough people come to realize that Juntai and actually sau he can beat SM Until then SS wins majority without much difficulty

Surfer 7/10 and yes I'm being generous towards MM.

I pretty much knew his basic powers, but not how he uses them. I own only one JLA story. The one where Lex Luthor has a satellite on Earth's orbit and he tries (with other enemies of JLA) destroy JLA by using evil clones and Worlogog. Gosh, Joker and Plastic Man rocked in that story arc.

Originally posted by Tshern
I pretty much knew his basic powers, but not how he uses them. I own only one JLA story. The one where Lex Luthor has a satellite on Earth's orbit and he tries (with other enemies of JLA) destroy JLA by using evil clones and Worlogog. Gosh, Joker and Plastic Man rocked in that story arc. It's a shame he couldn't even win with the worlogog, given that it can rewrite time/space at a whim.

That's nothing, but Joker didn't win with Worlogog, that was wrong! Martian Manhuter's telepathy wasn't too impressive in that story, though. He was only able to rearrange for a very limited period of time. I'm sure he has way better feats than that, but that particular story made me doubt his telepathic powers.

what story arc was that?

I think Juntai knows the name in English, my version is in Finnish.

surfer, but MM would definately give him a good fight.{better than superman}

Surfer 9/10. IIRC Martian Manhunter can only keep up Superman level strength for a short time. Even if Manhunter had the stamina to keep up his strength, it isn't enough to beat Surfer. All of MM's abilities just aren't enough to win this fight. He just doesn't have a way to win, imo.

actually its more like surfer 6-7/10 the only thing that gives him an edge over MM is the power cosmic's wide application and use in matter/energy manipulation which MIGHT work against manhunter's intabgibility, however surfer is going to have a HARD time trying not to succumb to manhunter's telepathic attacks.

Hard time? It sure took almost two seconds to get up when Moondragon, naturally wielding Mind Gem, blasted him with a mental bolt.

why does anyone use him in any battles according to everyone on here he is practiacally invincible. Some people actually thought he could beat swamp thing

The Surfer is extremely powerful. If you can find someone that could take him like Thanos for example, I would agree but Martian Manhunter poses no threat at all. The only thing that holds SS back is his pacifist nature.

Here is some telepathic powers and some Telekinetic powers from Silver Surfer.

Telepathy- http://www.geocities.com/bruno_nojunk/type-telepathy-8.html

&

Telekinetic powers- http://www.geocities.com/bruno_nojunk/type-telekinesis-7.html

and you have what proof that MM is not as strong or stronger then thanos have you seen thanos pushing moons around or stuff?

basically surfer has RESISTANCE{not immunity} against telepathy. he isnt a telepath himself, he cant hold off ultra high level telepaths and his telepathic showings are only a product of bein around too long and the writers running out of things to do with his power cosmic.

and just for the record surfer should NOT have been able to easily survive an attack from moondragon any more than he can withstand an attack from warrior madness king thor with the power gem{and the mind gem was even stronger, being second only to the soul gem}

I like J'onn, a lot, and I feel he is vastly underated on this board as well as within DC, but Surfer's out of his league. Surfer's out of 95% of comicdom's league.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
and just for the record surfer should NOT have been able to easily survive an attack from moondragon any more than he can withstand an attack from warrior madness king thor with the power gem{and the mind gem was even stronger, being second only to the soul gem}


I guess practical immunity to high level telepathic attacks is just another perk of being Galactus' herald. If you don't like it, take it up with him. The Surfer doesn't even have to fight MM. He could transmute his body into lead or anything else he wanted, or he could simply tie MM's life force to a certain area where MM would die if he left (as he did to Lunitik), or he could trap MM within his board (as he did to Quasar).

Surfer is just too versatile. He would win in a straight fight and he could win without throwing a punch.

Originally posted by TheKahn
I guess practical immunity to high level telepathic attacks is just another perk of being Galactus' herald. If you don't like it, take it up with him. The Surfer doesn't even have to fight MM. He could transmute his body into lead or anything else he wanted, or he could simply tie MM's life force to a certain area where MM would die if he left (as he did to Lunitik), or he could trap MM within his board (as he did to Quasar).

Surfer is just too versatile. He would win in a straight fight and he could win without throwing a punch.


just a reminder but xavier telepathically destroyed GALACTUS'S mental barriers to telepathy and acccesed his mind via the astral plane, goin head to head with the DEVOURER OF WORLDS. {see most people only mention PART of the picture and conviniently forget the wrest to help their character win} now even you would agree with me that surfer does NOT even have 5% of galactus's normal power/telepathic protection. and since MM is not unbelieveably weaker than xavier, id give him fair odds against trying to penetrate a galactus's HERALD'S mental barriers.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
just a reminder but xavier telepathically destroyed GALACTUS'S mental barriers to telepathy and acccesed his mind via the astral plane, goin head to head with the DEVOURER OF WORLDS. {see most people only mention PART of the picture and conviniently forget the wrest to help their character win} now even you would agree with me that surfer does NOT even have 5% of galactus's normal power/telepathic protection. and since MM is not unbelieveably weaker than xavier, id give him fair odds against trying to penetrate a galactus's HERALD'S mental barriers.

IIRC wasn't that on the astral plane and wasn't Xavier getting help from someone (was it Magneto?). I think there are more details to that fight than you are mentioning. And it would also depend on how hungry Galactus was. Does anyone know the full details of the fight?

And in my mind it would make perfect sense for Galactus to make the Surfer immune to telepathic attacks given the number of races or beings in the Marvel universe who are telepathic. He wouldn't want anyone possible re-programmnig his herald. And the fact remains that SS took a blast from Moondragon with the mind gem, so I doubt Manhunter's telepathy is going to win him this fight. In the same issue where she put Xavier in a coma with the same attack ( Infinity Crusade #03)

yes he was getting help from magneto but magneto is only a MINOR telepath. it was mostly xavier. and how can galactus give surfer immunity when he HIMSELF cant have IMMUNITY, just a high level of resistance{and the extent of which we have seen} i say any1 at exodus/MM telepathic level can break surfer's mental barriers with lill difficulty.

and as i have explained before, surfer taking a psi bolt from moondragon with mind gem without harm is BULLSHIT.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
and as i have explained before, surfer taking a psi bolt from moondragon with mind gem without harm is BULLSHIT.

Obviously Galactus does have some resistance to telepathy or why else would Xavier have to go to the Astral Plane in order to get to him? And if he couldn't do it without Magneto, I say that makes Magneto more than just of minor importance.

And why is SS taking the psi bolt from Moondragon that unbelievable? It isn't like it is contradicting any past events only defining the level of Surfer's telepathic resistance. Why else have the bolt take out Xavier unless you wanted to demonstrate the resistance of the Surfer when the same attack didn't get knocked down?

And back to the fight at hand, there is still nothing MM can do to Surfer. He is outclassed in strength, speed, and energy/matter manipulation, and his telepathy isn't going to help. Surfer could kill him at will.

1. he ISNT outclassed in strength
2. martian vision WILL hurt surfer{not as much as heat vision but still}
3. manhunter CAN resist matter manipulation because his control over his own molecules is greater than norrin's control over foriegn molecules
4. intangibility WILL give him practical immunity from force blasts and speed blitzing
5. manhunter IS almost as fast as superman and wonderwoman and has just as fast reflexes which means he CAN harm surfer without surfer being always able to outrun him or react too quickly to his moves
6. his telepathy CAN most definately do major harm to surfer
7.manhunter's is also EXTREMELY durable able to take punishment from omega affect etc in the past which means that surfer wont be easily anle to KO him , not even close


the only real advantage surfer has is off the ABSTRACT power cosmic which he can use to probably pull a prank like creating a black hole out of his ass which manhunter cant resist against. and this is exactly how surfer has won in the past speed blitz/ abstract power cosmic which gives writers the possibility of making him do ANYTHING to beat the hardest and most resistant of foes. so there surfer wins, but not easily.

Intangibility won't save MM. Superman can hit a phased being....Why shouldn't the Surfer be able to??
MM isn't as fast, nor almost. MM at best i believe is speed of sound. Superman is in multiples of light!
MM telepathy won't bother Surfer. He has a natural resistance to it. If he resisted the mind gem, what will MM do??
And you can call bs all day, but that won't help your case. I can call bs on Superman suddenly punching through time(WTF?!), or Surfer ever losing against another hero, or WonderWoman hitting Zoom while blind. Heck, i can call it on a precrisis character being shown as roughly equal to a post crisis character.... Kal-L vs Kal El.
Doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
1. he ISNT outclassed in strength
2. martian vision WILL hurt surfer{not as much as heat vision but still}
3. manhunter CAN resist matter manipulation because his control over his own molecules is greater than norrin's control over foriegn molecules
4. intangibility WILL give him practical immunity from force blasts and speed blitzing
5. manhunter IS almost as fast as superman and wonderwoman and has just as fast reflexes which means he CAN harm surfer without surfer being always able to outrun him or react too quickly to his moves
6. his telepathy CAN most definately do major harm to surfer
7.manhunter's is also EXTREMELY durable able to take punishment from omega affect etc in the past which means that surfer wont be easily anle to KO him , not even close


1. PC allows Surfer to increase his strength past his base level.

Knocks back Orion
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Darkseid_vs_Galactus33.jpg

Able to make Krosakis, an energy vampire that absorbed the power of Gladiator (Superman knock-off) and Uni-Power (Captain Universe), bleed
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-15.jpg

2. He can fly through a sun. Martian Vision isn't going to hurt him.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_v3_134p05.jpg

3. How will he still have "mental" control over his body when his mind gets transmuted at the same time PC allows him to transmute matter into anything he wants (which if done to MM would kill him instantly.

rock to air
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_v3_096_09.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_v3_096_10.jpg

Napkin dispenser to gold because he thought it was funny
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1997_129_16.jpg

4. Surfer can phase through matter as well.
http://www.geocities.com/bruno_nojunk/type-intangibility-5.html

5. Orion, Champion, and Krosakis (with Gladiator's and Cap. Universe's powers) couldn't put him down. Neither could MM.

6. Once again Moondragon with Mind gem couldn't, unless you can offer proof that MM is more powerful than her, then MM's telepathy isn't going to put him down
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Infinity_Crusade03-34.jpg

7. When did MM take the Omega Beams (and can't the effects of them vary depending on what Darksied wants them to do?). Besides Surfer is tougher (see the sun pic) and has ko'ed an Elder of the Universe (Champion) before.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/silver_surfer_1987_001_15.jpg

Hardly feels She-Hulk's punch
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_036-03.jpg



And again Surfer doesn't even have to thow a punch to win:
Imprisions Genis in his board
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1996_122_17.jpg
traps Lunatik to a planet, if he leaves he dies
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/MCP175-p15.jpg

Originally posted by TheKahn
1. PC allows Surfer to increase his strength past his base level.

Knocks back Orion
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Darkseid_vs_Galactus33.jpg

Able to make Krosakis, an energy vampire that absorbed the power of Gladiator (Superman knock-off) and Uni-Power (Captain Universe), bleed
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-15.jpg

2. He can fly through a sun. Martian Vision isn't going to hurt him.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_v3_134p05.jpg

3. How will he still have "mental" control over his body when his mind gets transmuted at the same time PC allows him to transmute matter into anything he wants (which if done to MM would kill him instantly.

rock to air
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_v3_096_09.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_v3_096_10.jpg

Napkin dispenser to gold because he thought it was funny
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1997_129_16.jpg

4. Surfer can phase through matter as well.
http://www.geocities.com/bruno_nojunk/type-intangibility-5.html

5. Orion, Champion, and Krosakis (with Gladiator's and Cap. Universe's powers) couldn't put him down. Neither could MM.

6. Once again Moondragon with Mind gem couldn't, unless you can offer proof that MM is more powerful than her, then MM's telepathy isn't going to put him down
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Infinity_Crusade03-34.jpg

7. When did MM take the Omega Beams (and can't the effects of them vary depending on what Darksied wants them to do?). Besides Surfer is tougher (see the sun pic) and has ko'ed an Elder of the Universe (Champion) before.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/silver_surfer_1987_001_15.jpg

Hardly feels She-Hulk's punch
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_036-03.jpg



And again Surfer doesn't even have to thow a punch to win:
Imprisions Genis in his board
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1996_122_17.jpg
traps Lunatik to a planet, if he leaves he dies
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/MCP175-p15.jpg


great post

Originally posted by TheKahn
1. PC allows Surfer to increase his strength past his base level.

Knocks back Orion
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Darkseid_vs_Galactus33.jpg

Able to make Krosakis, an energy vampire that absorbed the power of Gladiator (Superman knock-off) and Uni-Power (Captain Universe), bleed
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-15.jpg

2. He can fly through a sun. Martian Vision isn't going to hurt him.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_v3_134p05.jpg

3. How will he still have "mental" control over his body when his mind gets transmuted at the same time PC allows him to transmute matter into anything he wants (which if done to MM would kill him instantly.

rock to air
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_v3_096_09.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_v3_096_10.jpg

Napkin dispenser to gold because he thought it was funny
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1997_129_16.jpg

4. Surfer can phase through matter as well.
http://www.geocities.com/bruno_nojunk/type-intangibility-5.html

5. Orion, Champion, and Krosakis (with Gladiator's and Cap. Universe's powers) couldn't put him down. Neither could MM.

6. Once again Moondragon with Mind gem couldn't, unless you can offer proof that MM is more powerful than her, then MM's telepathy isn't going to put him down
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Infinity_Crusade03-34.jpg

7. When did MM take the Omega Beams (and can't the effects of them vary depending on what Darksied wants them to do?). Besides Surfer is tougher (see the sun pic) and has ko'ed an Elder of the Universe (Champion) before.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/silver_surfer_1987_001_15.jpg

Hardly feels She-Hulk's punch
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_036-03.jpg



And again Surfer doesn't even have to thow a punch to win:
Imprisions Genis in his board
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1996_122_17.jpg
traps Lunatik to a planet, if he leaves he dies
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/MCP175-p15.jpg A:The Hunger crossover feats don't count at all.
B:Everyone beats Champion, regardless of how powerful he SHOULD be.
C:In Paradise Lost, I believe it was, Martian Manhunter's body even reconfigured itself from death. So your molocule rearangement still doesn't work. Needless to say, I still don't think it works on someone with control of their own being, unless you've got scans to back it.
D: OK, he took a She hulk punch, but we've also seen sufficient physical force knock him out.

I already said I think SS would win more encounters than not, but MM will give him problems, and he's going to use a little more creativity than people are coming up with.

Originally posted by tdawg14
I don't have any scans but there is a comic that the Surfer tells Gladiator how easily he can take him cause he knew his weakness to radiation. It's in the Surfer respect thread.

One of the stupidest, least thought out character trait ever given.
The stinkin guy flies around in outer space!
Space is FILLED with radiation!
He wouldn't even be able to fly to the moon without dying.
these writers are idiots!

Originally posted by Juntai
A:The Hunter crossover feats don't count at all.
B:Everyone beats Champion, regardless of how powerful he SHOULD be.
C:In Paradise Lost, I believe it was, Martian Manhunter's body even reconfigured itself from death. So your molocule rearangement still doesn't work. Needless to say, I still don't think it works on someone with control of their own being, unless you've got scans to back it.
D: OK, he took a She hulk punch, but we've also seen sufficient physical force knock him out.

A) Yeah I know, but I just couldn't resist

B) I tend to think that is because he is such an auxiliary character. What other purpose would he serve if not to allow Marvel to showcase their more popular characters against? I mean nobody is demanding a Champion monthly. Still, he is an Elder and beating him should count for something, imo.

C) Well, as a pacifist, Surfer really doesn't use his matter manipulation on living beings as it would instantly kill them. However I think it would work against Manhunter.

This is the best site I've found to explain just what MM's powers are and how they work (if its wrong I'd have to reconsider, but for now...)
http://www.starnet-database.com/dbase_deo/profiles/mmanhunter/manhunter.html

He doesn't really alter the matter in his body (ie he can't transmute the elements that make up his body into different elements as Surfer could). Instead he controls the molecular structure of his body's bio-polymer to make it resemble anything he wants. The polymers remain the same, they just change their shape, color, and density. I think a good analogy would be how a chameleon can alter the color of its body. It really isn't matter manipulation just a physiological ability.

If you turn his arm to gold, he wouldn't be able to turn it back as it would no longer be made of his bio-polymers but inorganic gold.

D) Yes, he could get knocked out by physical force but I would think, given the examples we have, it would take more than MM could produce.

Originally posted by Horrificus
One of the stupidest, least thought out character trait ever given.
The stinkin guy flies around in outer space!
Space is FILLED with radiation!
He wouldn't even be able to fly to the moon without dying.
these writers are idiots! What do you expect? He's a Superman ripoff. He's got the same weakness. His Kryptonite.

Originally posted by Horrificus
One of the stupidest, least thought out character trait ever given.
The stinkin guy flies around in outer space!
Space is FILLED with radiation!
He wouldn't even be able to fly to the moon without dying.
these writers are idiots!

It's a certain type of radiation, not particularly UV rays or anything.

Overview: The Martian Manhunter is possibly the most powerful extra-terrestrial living on the Earth today with the exceptions of Superman and "Orion" of New Genesis. His array of powers and abilities equals and in some cases exceeds even the Man from Krypton's powers. His physical powers are not quite the equal of Superman's but he makes up with mental abilities, invisibility, and shapeshifing abilities, making him a much more capable operative in covert operations.
Physical Powers

Super Strength: The Martian's superhuman strength comes from his plasmorphic structure formed from immensely long and complex molecular chains, augmented with his psionic and telekinetic abilities allowing him to lift incredible weights without these weights crumbling under the stress. The Martian has been seen lifting small tankers out of the ocean for short distances. By modifing the density of these bio-polymers, the Manhunter can make himself stronger by forcing the polymers into tighter bundles. At a rest state, the Manhunter can lift approximately 20 tons. Given a few minutes to reconfigure, he could match Superman pound for pound for about a minute. Then the bio-polymer would begin to suffer under the strain and begin to unravel.

1) The Silver Surfer beat Orion with little effort.
2) The Silver Surfers base strength is well over class 100 Jonn's base strength is class 20, even though he can bring it up to near Superman Levels he burns out really fast returning to his base strength... I don't see how he could win, plus no one knows whether Jonn can beat Xavier on the Psychic Plane they are just guessing... I know that the Infinity gem of the mind is way out of Jonns league unless Jonns telepathic power are Godlike (which has never been shown) I mean the Infinity Gems are just way bigger than these little guys.
considering the stats of both contenders, The Surfer appears to be superior in every physical aspect. I just don't know how if Jonn can push a moon if he can only lift 20 tonnes.
Silver Surfer 10/10 IMO.

Oh and the Surfer can increase his Strength as well but doesn't burn out.

Galactus did good with the Surfer. Too bad Dr. Doom realized the same thing. After reading the entire thread, I say Surfer 9/10. I'm giving the MM one just cause I like him.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Overview: The Martian Manhunter is possibly the most powerful extra-terrestrial living on the Earth today with the exceptions of Superman and "Orion" of New Genesis. His array of powers and abilities equals and in some cases exceeds even the Man from Krypton's powers. His physical powers are not quite the equal of Superman's but he makes up with mental abilities, invisibility, and shapeshifing abilities, making him a much more capable operative in covert operations.
Physical Powers

Super Strength: The Martian's superhuman strength comes from his plasmorphic structure formed from immensely long and complex molecular chains, augmented with his psionic and telekinetic abilities allowing him to lift incredible weights without these weights crumbling under the stress. The Martian has been seen lifting small tankers out of the ocean for short distances. By modifing the density of these bio-polymers, the Manhunter can make himself stronger by forcing the polymers into tighter bundles. At a rest state, the Manhunter can lift approximately 20 tons. Given a few minutes to reconfigure, he could match Superman pound for pound for about a minute. Then the bio-polymer would begin to suffer under the strain and begin to unravel.

1) The Silver Surfer beat Orion with little effort.
2) The Silver Surfers base strength is well over class 100 Jonn's base strength is class 20, even though he can bring it up to near Superman Levels he burns out really fast returning to his base strength... I don't see how he could win, plus no one knows whether Jonn can beat Xavier on the Psychic Plane they are just guessing... I know that the Infinity gem of the mind is way out of Jonns league unless Jonns telepathic power are Godlike (which has never been shown) I mean the Infinity Gems are just way bigger than these little guys.
considering the stats of both contenders, The Surfer appears to be superior in every physical aspect. I just don't know how if Jonn can push a moon if he can only lift 20 tonnes.
Silver Surfer 10/10 IMO. He's not class 20, wherever you got that is crap. And he doesn't have to amp, and thus doesn't burn out. He is simply in Superman's range, period. And yes, his telepathy IS near godlike.
And Surfer beating Orion in a crossover doesn't mean anything on the forum. I said that already.

Originally posted by Juntai
And Surfer beating Orion in a crossover doesn't mean anything on the forum. I said that already.
And Superman beating Thor does?

How does MM intend to harm Surfer? He might try and steal his board to gain some leverage.

Originally posted by Hit and Run
And Superman beating Thor does?


only when they need it for a debate .

The Hunger isn't canon, JLA/Avengers continued into and affected continuity, making it valid. So no it's not only when needed.

Originally posted by Juntai
The Hunger isn't canon, JLA/Avengers continued into and affected continuity, making it valid. So no it's not only when needed.
It's still a crossover. Being canon doesn't make it that much different from the Hunger.

Originally posted by Hit and Run
It's still a crossover. Being canon doesn't make it that much different from the Hunger. Being actual continuity is vastly different than a random one shot crossover. It is considered the ONLY crossover ever acknowledged as actually happening, given that it's events continued into continuity..

It's funny how Superman can nearly die from a couple enchanted Diablo bullets, but stand up from Mjolnir thrown at full force in the next panel.

Crossovers are bullshit to appease fans.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
just a reminder but xavier telepathically destroyed GALACTUS'S mental barriers to telepathy and acccesed his mind via the astral plane, goin head to head with the DEVOURER OF WORLDS. {see most people only mention PART

I didn't know that. Than Xavier should have the powers to defaet SS. With that, MM also and God-Like Cable should have crushed SS in their battle, but he was holding back too much.
Anyway, SS should win this.

The Orion and Surfer fight was not canon and holds no weight on these forums.Now the Superman and Thor fight as much as you Marvel kids don't wanna believe it it is canon.
Now to the fight Surfer still wins with ease........

I'm not disputing the canonicity of it, but obviously his tolerance to magical objects fluctuate stupidly.

Originally posted by thesilverspider
The Orion and Surfer fight was not canon and holds no weight on these forums.Now the Superman and Thor fight as much as you Marvel kids don't wanna believe it it is canon.
Now to the fight Surfer still wins with ease........

Now, tell me, how could Superman Vs. Thor be a canon.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Now, tell me, how could Superman Vs. Thor be a canon. Because events in JLA/Avengers affected continuity. Small examples include: The Crime Syndicate, died in JLA/Avengers, and were dead in continuity because of it. Also, the egg Krona was trapped in, was found later in a JLA issue. He was still in it.


It also helps that the writer of JLA/Avengers was writing both JLA and Avengers titles.
lol.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
I'm not disputing the canonicity of it, but obviously his tolerance to magical objects fluctuate stupidly.
You misunderstand the magic weakness of superman.
Now it's not like the Hammer throw is that powerful anyway many have taken shots from it before.Nefaria takes Thor's hammer throws and laughs at him Namor has taken a shot right to the face aswell.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Now, tell me, how could Superman Vs. Thor be a canon.
What Juntai said plus Marvel has put the event in there Handbook......

Originally posted by thesilverspider

Now it's not like the Hammer throw is that powerful anyway many have taken shots from it before.Nefaria takes Thor's hammer throws and laughs at him Namor has taken a shot right to the face aswell.

TOLERANCE TO MAGICAL OBJECTS.. hello? anyone there?

Anyway, explain the magical weakness of Superman so I can fully understand. Because like I said I have a comic were a few enchanted bullets with Diablo's signature nearly killed him.

Originally posted by thesilverspider
What Juntai said plus Marvel has put the event in there Handbook......

OK, than it is canon.
Still SS wins this.

Originally posted by Xplosive
OK, than it is canon.
Still SS wins this. Oh, I said already way back in the thread pages ago that Surfer would win most encounters, just people can't seem to come up with HOW, but I have faith in the character. Jonn WILL get his licks in though, and a couple of wins likely... but it'll be tough.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
TOLERANCE TO MAGICAL OBJECTS.. hello? anyone there?

Anyway, explain the magical weakness of Superman so I can fully understand. Because like I said I have a comic were a few enchanted bullets with Diablo's signature nearly killed him.
All right, I didn't mean for this to stray so far from the topic. I was really just fooling around with Juntai saying one crossover means something while the other doesn't (yeah, yeah, I know it's canon).

Back to the fight here. I'd say telepathy is MM's best bet, but Norrin has shown he's no slouch in that department, so I'd say the Manhunter doesn't have very good odds of winning.

Originally posted by Hit and Run
All right, I didn't mean for this to stray so far from the topic. I was really just fooling around with Juntai saying one crossover means something while the other doesn't (yeah, yeah, I know it's canon).

Back to the fight here. I'd say telepathy is MM's best bet, but Norrin has shown he's no slouch in that department, so I'd say the Manhunter doesn't have very good odds of winning. Ah. Testing me, eh?

Originally posted by Hit and Run
All right, I didn't mean for this to stray so far from the topic. I was really just fooling around with Juntai saying one crossover means something while the other doesn't (yeah, yeah, I know it's canon).

Back to the fight here. I'd say telepathy is MM's best bet, but Norrin has shown he's no slouch in that department, so I'd say the Manhunter doesn't have very good odds of winning.

He wont be able to harm SS telepathically. Like I said, he needs to steal his board to gain some leverage.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
He wont be able to harm SS telepathically. Like I said, he needs to steal his board to gain some leverage.
That would only happen do to P.I.S Surfer is way to fast for MM to take his board.

Originally posted by Juntai
Ah. Testing me, eh?
You know it!

I know it too!!

bump!

How in the hell could MM conceivably beat the Surfer?

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
How in the hell could MM conceivably beat the Surfer?

Surfer starts laughing hysterically cuz he can't believe someone would actually wear that kind of Village People outfit. MM gets pissed, phases, reaches inside SS's shorts and rips his willie off.

Other than that, SS wins 9/10.

Wow, that's a good one. Kill or be killed, I guess I'll go with the Surfer, just because, he's said he's immortal. I don't think John could kill him, although, John matches up perfectly with him because of his telepathy. That's something that has hurt the Surfer on many occasions. I think that John could make him comatose for a while, but killing the Surfer is an entirely different matter.

Q: Can Surfer obsorb the Manhunter's matter and eat if if he's phasing???

Moondragon with the Sould Gem didn't succeed. Martian Manhunter is also known of the fact that he arranged Joker's thoughts for a few seconds. Do the maths.

Originally posted by Tshern
Moondragon with the Sould Gem didn't succeed. Martian Manhunter is also known of the fact that he arranged Joker's thoughts for a few seconds. Do the maths.

Ok, I think you're saying pretty much what I said. Manhunter can not kill him. Kill or be killed is a difficult fight for anyone when you're up against the Surfer. Can Surfer die? Aren't Galactus and his Heralds going to be the start of the next universe? They somehow transition the matter or something????

Just thought to remind that MM is not putting SS to comatose.

My 20 Bucks On JLA/Avengers being canon.

On DC:
Yes. If WW fans want to show that WW> a GL by showing that Diana broke Quasars shield then yes they could use it. Wouldnt carry much weight though . . .

On Marvel: No.
The crossover is out of continuity. The only Marvel JLA/Avengers reference that i saw in the Handbook is the one listing ALL the appearance of the Cosmic Cube and thats what it is, a SUMMARY listing of all the appearances of the CC for the benefit of the reader. The handbook entry is not even trying to connect it into the main line 616 continuity. Unless we see the Avengers acknowledging the events of JLA/Avengers (like what happened in JLA's Syndicate rules) in a printed comic book, with editorial confirmation no less, then JLA/Avengers IS NOT CANON.

Oh this also means that using feats in JLA/Avengers are moot in cross company fight threads.

SSFTW!!

Surfer.... owns him 10/10

Surfer 7/10.

This is one of the most unfair threads for MM ever...

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
This is one of the most unfair threads for MM ever...

Imagine an MM vs. Firelord thread. Now that would be UNFAIR.

Surfer yawns, then simply disassembles MM at the subatomic level, encases his molecules in whisps of adamantium and drops the whole lot down a blackhole.

Surfer 10/10.
you'd have to hire Dr. Doom and Reed Richards to come up with a semi-plausible way in which Surfer could lose even 1/10 to MM.

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer yawns, then simply disassembles MM at the subatomic level, encases his molecules in whisps of adamantium and drops the whole lot down a blackhole.
I don't think that would work. MM has too much control over his own Molecular structure for it to go down like that.

Surfer can attack on the sub-atomic level. and has change dna world-wide without any effort, if he even marginally exerted himself he could do that to almost anyone of Herald levels and below.

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer can attack on the sub-atomic level. and has change dna world-wide without any effort, if he even marginally exerted himself he could do that to almost anyone of Herald levels and below.

Shoulda coulda woulda. He hasn't. And I dont' think he can do it to MM. For one, MM has too much control over his own body. For two, MM would be mucking with Surfer's mind. Surfer wouldn't be able to concentrate on the more exotic of his abilities. He'd have to go for str8 over powering.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Imagine an MM vs. Firelord thread. Now that would be UNFAIR. Perhaps... but at least Firelord can be mindraped...

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Shoulda coulda woulda. He hasn't. And I dont' think he can do it to MM. For one, MM has too much control over his own body. For two, MM would be mucking with Surfer's mind. Surfer wouldn't be able to concentrate on the more exotic of his abilities. He'd have to go for str8 over powering.
rofl

you think MM's gonna even have time to form a thought?
and even if MM was given the luxury of a second's life (which is highly improbable), Surfer's got telepathic abilities and considerable resistance.

MM's dead in a billion ways before Surfer's even mildly challenged by him .

think of this, Surfer could just change the electrons around MM and leave him struggling to retain physical coherence. or make a million illusory "Surfers" and bewilder MM with them, then slip into microverse and inside MM's head and then pop back to full-size...

Originally posted by janus77
rofl

you think MM's gonna even have time to form a thought?
and even if MM was given the luxury of a second's life (which is highly improbable), Surfer's got telepathic abilities and considerable resistance.

MM's dead in a billion ways before Surfer's even mildly challenged by him .

think of this, Surfer could just change the electrons around MM and leave him struggling to retain physical coherence. or make a million illusory "Surfers" and bewilder MM with them, then slip into microverse and inside MM's head and then pop back to full-size...
LOL. So MM, one of the most powerful and best telepaths in all of comics history would be fooled by illusionory Surfers? LMAO how contrived. YOu think Surfer's resistance is goign to completely block out MM's powers? NO. Hinder, yes. NOt block out. He'd have to put some effort into it. You actually think Surfer can make MM struggle to maintain his physical composure? Um, how many Comics with MM do you own? MM IS Self molecular control at it's best. IT's where most of his Physical powers derive from.

If Superman can resist Martian ManHunter, Surfer can, easily.
Surfer 10/10

Originally posted by Priest
If Superman can resist Martian ManHunter, Surfer can, easily.
Surfer 10/10

Um, Since when have Superman and surfer been on the same lvl when it came to will power, and telepathic resistance? Superman has uber T-Vo type power. That takes a strong mind to do that. Surfer and Superman aren't even comparible in that area. Surfer 7/10. MM has far too many powers and TP for surfer to get every single win out of 10.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um, Since when have Superman and surfer been on the same lvl when it came to will power, and telepathic resistance? Superman has uber T-Vo type power. That takes a strong mind to do that. Surfer and Superman aren't even comparible in that area. Surfer 7/10. MM has far too many powers and TP for surfer to get every single win out of 10. I bet you believe the hyperbole of T-Vo...

Also, Surfer resisted an attack that put Prof X in a coma.

Not saying they are on the same level... but I doubt MM's TP is doing much at all.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
I bet you believe the hyperbole of T-Vo...

Also, Surfer resisted an attack that put Prof X in a coma.

Not saying they are on the same level... but I doubt MM's TP is doing much at all.
MM>>>>>>>>>>>Prof X. So I dont' see that as really any kind of proof. Also, who says the attack that put prof in the COma was the same strength? Was prof caught unaware? Was surfer ready for the same attack. These things make all the difference. I remember something like that in Ifinity Crusade. The details evade me right now tho. And T-Vo is what it is. I hate it. I hate superman. But it is what it is. MM's Tp would do something. I"m not saying it would do enough on it's own to get him a win, but It in conjuction with other attacks can get MM some wins.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Superman has uber T-Vo type power.

El oh el.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
MM>>>>>>>>>>>Prof X. So I dont' see that as really any kind of proof. Also, who says the attack that put prof in the COma was the same strength? Was prof caught unaware? Was surfer ready for the same attack. These things make all the difference. I remember something like that in Ifinity Crusade. The details evade me right now tho. And T-Vo is what it is. I hate it. I hate superman. But it is what it is. MM's Tp would do something. I"m not saying it would do enough on it's own to get him a win, but It in conjuction with other attacks can get MM some wins. Perhaps... but it's still a good feat.

Same type of attack, same 'madness', same writer, same comic, same look, indicates it was the same strength.

Both were caught unaware... Surfer got up. Surfer was also under Goddess's control at the time... he broke that too.

What is it? Overrated? I agree. Can you even tell me what T-Vo can do?

Surfer's got amazing resistance... whether MM let's out a blast, or is in his mind. I can't see him doing much, even combined...
And as much fun as I poke at MM, I really do like him, and I do read a lot of comics featuring him, but if that has to overidding to bug Martian_Mind...

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um, Since when have Superman and surfer been on the same lvl when it came to will power, and telepathic resistance? Superman has uber T-Vo type power. That takes a strong mind to do that. Surfer and Superman aren't even comparible in that area. Surfer 7/10. MM has far too many powers and TP for surfer to get every single win out of 10.

Surfer has resisted Professor X and Moon Dragon w/ Mind Gem TP, both of whom has global TP feats.

Oh Surfer himself has a global TP feat under his belt
"Blanketing every every man, woman, child on the face of the earth"
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/143/silversurfer199713318ml1.jpg

Martian Man Hunter in no way is not messing with Surfer's head.

He has a SHIT LOAD of TP feats that makes it convincing enough that MM cant harm him.

bump

I think Surfer wins....

SS 10/10

SS wins.

spite. Surfer owns this.

He's Back.

Bump

Surfer 6/10. And lulz @ saying Surfer can't be mindraped.

Tell that to Carnage symbiote.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Surfer 6/10. And lulz @ saying Surfer can't be mindraped.

Tell that to Carnage symbiote.

Lol, you might not want to play the low showings game with MM in the thread...

J'onn wins, 10/10.


Run at me bitches.

Surfer burns MM to crisp

Surfer

Jobber vs Jobber?

I'll do with the dude with pretty much unlimited powers that could potential one shot John.

I think this would be an interesting matchup. Sure MM has a glaring weakness to fire but I'm really not sure a cosmic blast could be classified as heat. Honestly I don't know what to classify it as.

Surfer has boiled an entire ocean before

Surfer has also incinerated an entire planet before too.

http://i.imgur.com/jeoKWPx.jpg

Well. That answers that then. Thanks for the clarification!

Originally posted by One-Punch
Surfer has also incinerated an entire planet before too.

http://i.imgur.com/jeoKWPx.jpg
Well, J'onn can go intangible of course.