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According to Baron Zemo in Thunderbolts 100. "I drew matter from the Big Bang that both began and ends our universe!"

Hmmm read this issue - Its a retconn if your a Phoenix believer lots which contadicts your world view here Trust me!

Uhh Ohh.

If anyone shall end the Marvel Universe it shall be Doom!

Or Bird Flu, whichever happens first..

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
According to Baron Zemo in Thunderbolts 100. "I drew matter from the Big Bang that both began and ends our universe!"

Hmmm read this issue - Its a retconn if your a Phoenix believer lots which contadicts your world view here Trust me!

That says that he drew matter from the thing that began and ends the Marvel universe. Sorry if im being slow but how does that change the notion portrayed in this lovely scan below :

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=2/3909345924.jpg&s=x7

Dont believe it does.

Still references the Big Bang as being the beginning of Marvels universe and we all know what the Big Bang is:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509292924.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509330349.jpg&s=x11

Cool.

As an additional point. Something ending the Marvel universe prematurely doesnt equate to a retcon. In the natural scheme of things the Phoenix Force brings about the end.

However im glad the Big Bang was referenced as the thing that both begins and ends Marvel

This what u were on about?:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7716271233.jpg&s=x11

Retcon?

None of thats from 100 GS Read it and see. Genis is gone anyway at least for now. It's funny how when characters get stupidly powerful they vanish.

GS you really need to read 100 to be able to comment on it.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
None of thats from 100 GS Read it and see. Genis is gone anyway at least for now. It's funny how when characters get stupidly powerful they vanish.

GS you really need to read 100 to be able to comment on it.

You sure you've actually read Thunderbolts 100 cos thats page 26 from said issue.

Read it. Commented. Awaiting your reply.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
None of thats from 100 GS Read it and see. Genis is gone anyway at least for now. It's funny how when characters get stupidly powerful they vanish.
Yeah but Genis was actually a great character.

Originally posted by Validus
Yeah but Genis was actually a great character.

I liked him initially but he got ridiculous. Even the "new" Doctor in Authority is less powerful, however Jenny is being described as the most powerful being in the Universe in Captain Atom at the moment.

Actually folks, Galactus is the one who ends it.

Originally posted by Marcus4600
Actually folks, Galactus is the one who ends it.

Thats an outdated idea that got retconned yeeeeeeeaaaars ago.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
However im glad the Big Bang was referenced as the thing that both begins and ends Marvel

This what u were on about?:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7716271233.jpg&s=x11

Retcon?

Yes it is page 26 and yes it is a retconn you've been telling everyone the marvel universe won't end. hmmmmmmm............... continuity conflict.

hmmm Genis was the past presnt and future energy of the Universe. I thought you told me Phoenix was that!

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Yes it is page 26 and yes it is a retconn you've been telling everyone the marvel universe won't end. hmmmmmmm............... continuity conflict.

hmmm Genis was the past presnt and future energy of the Universe. I thought you told me Phoenix was that!

Ive been telling everyone the Marvel universe wont end?

Well thats a lie and also somewhat odd given the numerous times ive declared Phoenix to be the beginning and end of the universe.

As for Genis, the reason he was in that state is because he was imbued with matter from the Big Bang by Baron Zemo as explained by Baron Zemo in that very same scan. Get it together geezer.

If anything that title provides more support for my Phoenix interpretation. So basically tapping into the energies of the Big Bang makes you one with the past, present and future of reality. Hmmm

why does shi'ar theology count as omniversal mandate, GS?

Originally posted by Disappear
why does shi'ar theology count as omniversal mandate, GS?

It doesnt in and of itself, but Eternitys account in X-men Forever does just fine.

That one scan isnt the be all and end all of the evidence ive presented. Ive been in many debates with Whirly and as such i believed it would suffice. You had no prior knowledge of this i assume but no worries.

Isn't Entropy suppose to destroy the Marvel Universe someday or again (he already did 1 time didn't he?)????.

i know about the contention between you and whirly regarding the phoenix's importance in anything and everything, yes. i don't really care for the back and forth you two get into, so i typically avoid it. i just don't see how an account that has no true basis in fact, the shi'ar religion, can suffice as evidence; regardless of whether it agrees with actual, unconnected fact or not.

what i dont get is why didnt zemp just umbue himself, with energies from the big bang...then again if you go by recent issues of FF, you'll see that Reed and that Alien dude are the ones responsible for creating the freaking universe, and its beucz of comments he made about his famili'ys personality that cuased those rays to empower them.. sonwhen when they were going on about..." gee we are one with everything and it feeels great" and they basically re-lived billions of years of universal existence how come they never detected at any point zemo sucking energies, or phoeneix, or galactus being in that egg...better yet why doesnt marel leave all the broad band cosmic outer spacey stuff to DC?

Originally posted by Disappear
i know about the contention between you and whirly regarding the phoenix's importance in anything and everything, yes. i don't really care for the back and forth you two get into, so i typically avoid it. i just don't see how an account that has no true basis in fact, the shi'ar religion, can suffice as evidence; regardless of whether it agrees with actual, unconnected fact or not.

The thread was created by Whirly, my post was in response to Whirly. You have been told that my post was basically a follow on of other stuff i have provided, in various other debates ive had with Whirly. That is all you need to know.

If you were to refer back to my post and re-read you'd see that the scan was posted to display the notion, said notion was then backed up by evidence. Misinterpretation? Dont worry about it.

Ouch. Someone got OWNED pretty bad. And it's not GS.

Originally posted by manjaro
what i dont get is why didnt zemp just umbue himself, with energies from the big bang...then again if you go by recent issues of FF, you'll see that Reed and that Alien dude are the ones responsible for creating the freaking universe, and its beucz of comments he made about his famili'ys personality that cuased those rays to empower them.. sonwhen when they were going on about..." gee we are one with everything and it feeels great" and they basically re-lived billions of years of universal existence how come they never detected at any point zemo sucking energies, or phoeneix, or galactus being in that egg...better yet why doesnt marel leave all the broad band cosmic outer spacey stuff to DC?

Agreed.

Originally posted by Disappear
i know about the contention between you and whirly regarding the phoenix's importance in anything and everything, yes. i don't really care for the back and forth you two get into, so i typically avoid it. i just don't see how an account that has no true basis in fact, the shi'ar religion, can suffice as evidence; regardless of whether it agrees with actual, unconnected fact or not.

Agreed

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Ouch. Someone got OWNED pretty bad. And it's not GS.



Umm Yes right, someone got "owned" and now posts in threads following me around.

GS has a poor imitation of Creshosk here, except Creshosk never resorted to this level of cheerleading and actually made good points.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If anything that title provides more support for my Phoenix interpretation. So basically tapping into the energies of the Big Bang makes you one with the past, present and future of reality. Hmmm

Not really and energy was taken from the begining and end of time by Zemo to heal Genis. Read it again.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ive been telling everyone the Marvel universe wont end?

Well thats a lie

No it isn't and anyone on these forums for any time knows that.

You have told us numerous times Phoenix replaces all other abstracts and the universal cycle is then stopped.

As for the old geezer comments, it's just a bit sad that you have to resort to them to draw attention away from the lie.

whirly, is this energy you're talking about described in any way? is it simply referred to as the energy of the big bang?

oh, and nice cresh crack!

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Agreed.



Agreed





Umm Yes right, someone got "owned" and now posts in threads following me around.

GS has a poor imitation of Creshosk here, except Creshosk never resorted to this level of cheerleading and actually made good points.

No bearing on my argument or this thread. Irrelevant. Disappears comments stem from poor observation. He commented on something i never did as such your agreement too is not only naive but also irrelevant.


Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Not really and energy was taken from the begining and end of time by Zemo to heal Genis. Read it again.

Whirly come on. Despite your previous comments suggesting otherwise im going to assume that we've both read the issue. Baron Zemo states that he was the responsible for Genis' present state and therefore for any potential destruction he might cause.

The reason being?

He healed Genis with matter from the Big Bang:

"My experience wielding the Moonstones was your undoing. I drew matter from the Big Bang that both began and ends our universe. It is that anomaly which created our predicament"

I believe that says it all.

Heres that scan again:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7716271233.jpg&s=x11

This also adds additional support to Galactus comments from Excalibur 61:



According to both Galactus and Baron Zemo the Big Bang is the be all and end all of creation. Its power births it, maintains it and ends it. There is no new energy introduced to this closed system, just the power of the Big Bang. By using the matter from the Big Bang Genis was made one with the past and the present and the future as stated by Zemo. He was collapsing photonic activity in all of those eras via this connection.

Retcon? Nah!

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
No it isn't and anyone on these forums for any time knows that.

You have told us numerous times Phoenix replaces all other abstracts and the universal cycle is then stopped.

I have said no such thing. Phoenix brings about the end of the universe and co-ordinates the replacement of the abstracts at the end of the universe, but then she is also the Big Bang which births a new universe. While a universe may come to an end the creation cycle is a constant. A constant through a certain firebird

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/741443489.jpg&s=x11

Regardless this accusation is either a lie resultant from the collapse of your dead end argument or a most horrible misinterpretation.

Either way quote me and post a link to the appropriate thread or SHHHHH!!! You have nothing. But isnt that always the case?

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
As for the old geezer comments, it's just a bit sad that you have to resort to them to draw attention away from the lie.

Its quite obvious that the only lies to be found around here stem from yourself. Until you support your OPINION with sufficient evidence i need do no more but and

Bye bye.

Originally posted by leonidas
whirly, is this energy you're talking about described in any way? is it simply referred to as the energy of the big bang?


Baron Zemo just drew power direct from the Big Bang

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7716271233.jpg&s=x11

Thats the only mention of it in the title.

it was more a coy jab at you for having picked a non-factual example as your evidence, not poor observation. all in good fun.

Interstingly it's stated that the Marvel Universe begins and ends through the big bang and the energy is taken from this and it is this paradox that causes the problem in Genis.

It's also stated in the same comic Photons are the building blocks of the Marvel Universe.

Its not as big though as the Ultimate Universe civilisations simply trapping the Phoenix itself in the Earth - Multiversal (maybe), All powerful Nah, A few Aliens in Spaceships caught the Phoenix force itself.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Interstingly it's stated that the Marvel Universe begins and ends through the big bang and the energy is taken from this and it is this paradox that causes the problem in Genis.

It's also stated in the same comic Photons are the building blocks of the Marvel Universe.

Its not as big though as the Ultimate Universe civilisations simply trapping the Phoenix itself in the Earth - Multiversal (maybe), All powerful Nah, A few Aliens in Spaceships caught the Phoenix force itself.

So what? It was still stated to be the most powerful force in Ultimate creation and just like in 616 it was stated to be the power that drives evolution. Sounds alot like the theories thrown around in X-men Forever.

I like the change of subject. I'll take that as a sign of concession. No worries.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So what? It was still stated to be the most powerful force in Ultimate creation and just like in 616 it was stated to be the power that drives evolution.

No it wasn't it was said it "may" have sparked life. The believer Lilandra the "Scientologist" then said one of it's creations tried controlling it It did not drive evolution it got trapped in the middle of the Earth by a few spaceships.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
No it wasn't it was said it "may" have sparked life. The believer Lilandra the "Scientologist" then said one of it's creations tried controlling it It did not drive evolution it got trapped in the middle of the Earth by a few spaceships.

It was stated to be the most powerful force in the Ultimate universe and on a number of occassions characters have linked it to the Big Bang. It was never said one of its creations tried controlling it. It said its greatest creation tried controlling it. Referring to life. Hopefully everything will be clarified in the Phoenix Saga and in Ultimate Extinction.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It was stated to be the most powerful force in the Ultimate universe and on a number of occassions characters have linked it to the Big Bang. It was never said one of its creations tried controlling it. It said its greatest creation tried controlling it. Referring to life. Hopefully everything will be clarified in the Phoenix Saga and in Ultimate Extinction.

Funny check out page 8 The "scientologist" Lilandra last speech bubble "It is said the Phoenix may well have been the spark that brought life to the universe". Page 9 "The Phoenix's greatest creation became her undoing, the life she created sopught to control her", last caption "in the end she was defeated", real tough . Page 10 They have the Phoenix trapped "So they constructed a special prison aroound the Phoenix a cage mighty enough to contain this one mighty prisoner, it remains to this day unchanged housing her at it's center, it was a prison we would eventually call Earth". No mention of the greatest power in the Universe.

Sorry GS please post these scans make em big

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Funny check out page 8 The "scientologist" Lilandra last speech bubble "It is said the Phoenix may well have been the spark that brought life to the universe". Page 9 "The Phoenix's greatest creation became her undoing, the life she created sopught to control her", last caption "in the end she was defeated", real tough . Page 10 They have the Phoenix trapped "So they constructed a special prison aroound the Phoenix a cage mighty enough to contain this one mighty prisoner, it remains to this day unchanged housing her at it's center, it was a prison we would eventually call Earth". No mention of the greatest power in the Universe.

Sorry GS please post these scans make em big

Who said anything about in the same issue?

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/569/ultimatexmen25p22234io.th.jpg

That big enough?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Who said anything about in the same issue?

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/569/ultimatexmen25p22234io.th.jpg

That big enough?

Ahh the old Phoenix blows its own trumpet to the hellfire club I'd rather trust the present plotline where its been trapped by a bunch of aliens. Yup big enough to prove my point about your evidence.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Ahh the old Phoenix blows its own trumpet to the hellfire club I'd rather trust the present plotline where its been trapped by a bunch of aliens. Yup big enough to prove my point about your evidence.

Present storyline doesnt contradict what Phoenix said in the slightest. You asked for evidence where Phoenix was said to be the greatest power in the Ultimate universe and i have provided exactly that.

Anyone reading this thread knows to disregard your comments regarding the present story arc. You've already demonstrated quite perfectly your inability to accurately analyse and relate on panel evidence in this very thread.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Present storyline doesnt contradict what Phoenix said in the slightest.

Yes it does if it can be trapped it's not the greatest power in the Universe the space ships trapping it combined are greater (logic is your friend GS - think about it)

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You asked for evidence where Phoenix was said to be the greatest power in the Ultimate universe and i have provided exactly that.


It's called Hyperbole if someone claims something without proof happens in comics and real life all the time. Usually when you are claiming something on here

It's no biggie we all know your Hyperbole is just that

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Yes it does if it can be trapped it's not the greatest power in the Universe the space ships trapping it combined are greater (logic is your friend GS - think about it)

Being trapped after a thousand year war against hundreds of star faring civilisations does not contradict that statement in the slightest. You know nothing of the cosmology of the Ultimate universe and nothing of the circumstances of the war so it would be illogical to dismiss the statement based on a dislike for the character and an envy of its supporters.



Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
It's called Hyperbole if someone claims something without proof happens in comics and real life all the time. Usually when you are claiming something on here

It's no biggie we all know your Hyperbole is just that

Keep the faith

Stay Whirly

We'll wait and see if its hyperbole. In fact issue 69 is out today. I'll let you know the details!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Being trapped after a thousand year war against hundreds of star faring civilisations does not contradict that statement in the slightest. You know nothing of the cosmology of the Ultimate universe and nothing of the circumstances of the war so it would be illogical to dismiss the statement based on a dislike for the character and an envy of its supporters.




We'll wait and see if its hyperbole. In fact issue 69 is out today. I'll let you know the details!! The greatest power in the UnivErse needs a host. hmmmm always amusing to me that part of your theory. Yup I will be "buying" it Saturday or Sunday. You do know about "buying" comics old pal.

Envy me! My comics are on paper

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
The greatest power in the UnivErse needs a host. hmmmm always amusing to me that part of your theory. Yup I will be "buying" it Saturday or Sunday. You do know about "buying" comics old pal.

Ultimates Phoenix didnt need a host previously, it was only after it was trapped according to Lilandras religion. Like i said lets wait and see.

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Envy me! My comics are on paper

And so are mine!! I download comics for debating purposes, not instead of buying them.

Its good to hear youre actually reading the relevant comics these days as opposed to relying on fansites. Im proud of ya mate.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ultimates Phoenix didnt need a host previously, it was only after it was trapped according to Lilandras religion. Like i said lets wait and see.



And so are mine!! I download comics for debating purposes, not instead of buying them.

Its good to hear youre actually reading the relevant comics these days as opposed to relying on fansites. Im proud of ya mate.

Yes it needs a host to get out from the centre of the Earth. hmmmm Ultimate G?alactus is going to eat the Earth can you say continuity cock up.

You download comics because they are expensive you have told me this many times, tell the truth GS


The X men a relevant comic in any form perhaps when I was reading it before you were born - point made.