Originally posted by Dizzle
(most coherent pro JLA argument so far, I'll refute this one)
Meh, I'd personally doubt the prep time thing. Surfer can sundip himself as well, possibly to even greater effect than Superman. (I'm assuming we ignore the Godwave... It puts her at abstract level, she'd take out every single guy here times a billion at the same time if she used it) Reed and Tony far outclass Batman's intelligence, and Surfer is at least as fast, if not faster, than Flash, with a MASSIVE power advantage. Any blitzing Flash might do will be countered with a beam that turns him into a sandwich.
Yea, the Godwave would end things rather quick but so would Thor's Godblast.
Personally, I would put the Flash and Surfer in the same league in terms of speed as both have done some pretty amazing things (although the Flash does have far more combat speed feats). The key for either side to win (and either side certainly could win) is in matching up properly with their opponents. Flash vs Surfer would be a very bad match up.
Originally posted by Dizzle
Hulk can jump. Amazingly accurately. The ones that count are immune/resistant to telepathy. The thing is, Thor, Surfer, Reed, Hulk, and Iron Man is more than enough to take down the JLA team as is.
As most of the JLA has not only flight but also super speed (even without alteration by the Flash) so I doubt the hulk jumping in the air will be a effective attack. And those without telepathic resistance/immunity face the possibility of being turned against their own team.
Originally posted by Dizzle
Hulk won't go down that fast, though I agree he can be taken down by quite a few JLAers. Reed was given buttloads of prep, he isn't going down without taking a couple with him. Tony also prepared, I'd imagine his armor would be a bit tougher than normal. He's no slouch, powered up or not.
The problem with the Hulk, Reed, and Tony is that they only have about human reaction times and reflexes. And given their opponents, that is a major disadvantage to overcome. I mean I don't think many of the Marvel team can take too many infinite mass punches by the Flash or the Manhunter's intangibility.
Originally posted by Dizzle
The Marvel team has several options here, which is why I think they'd win. Firstly, as has been mentioned, Surfer can endow power cosmic. He can basically give superpowers, as seen by his enchantment of Shalla Bal's soul. What he can do with it, I don't know. Tony Stark can also get Iron man suits for everyone if need be. Imagine Hulk with armor, flight, and lasers. Again, giving prep is risky, because being specific is really really hard, as guys like Reed and Batman can pull out ANYTHING if ou give them 2 weeks.
To be honest, I don't know the details of the Surfer sharing the power cosmic with others
and it very well could turn this fight into a curbstomp in his favor. But if his team only gets a fraction of his power or it some how diminishes him to do this, then I think the JLA still has the advantage (if anyone does know the details please share them)
Tony handing out armors would be a very good tactic but with the speed discrepancy I still not sure if that would really make that much of a difference. (Again depending on the details of the Surfer sharing the Power Cosmic with the others)
Originally posted by Dizzle
Unprepped, Surfer kills Flash and Superman very very quickly. (solar energy drain or knite) After that, he probably should square off with Martian Manhunter to minimize losses, as he's an extremely powerful telepath himself. Honestly, I see it taking all of 30 seconds. Thor and GL can fight, which would itself be an epic struggle. Tony can at the LEAST distract Wonderwoman until Surfer finishes with Manhunter and kills him. Hulk can jump at her and help, if need be. From there, thjey gangrape GL, since either Thor or SS can match him very evenly in power. (Surfer dominates him in speed and is almost exactly the same in terms of powers) The rest of the JLA don't matter a lot.
If the JLA are going to win they have to be very careful with how they match themselves up with the marvel team. The only one who can really stand against the Surfer is the Green Lantern (which he should be able to do thanks to the speed increase by the Flash). Trying to have Superman fight the Surfer is a damn good way to get the boy scout killed. So I would have speed enhanced Batman, Plastic Man, and Flash take on everybody except Thor and Surfer (honestly I think the Flash could do it by himself, you gotta love the infinite mass punches
).
That leaves Thor And Surfer against Sundipped Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, & Hawkman (all with enhanced speed). I would pit the GL, MM, & Wonder Woman against Surfer and Superman & Hawkman against Thor. Even then it would be a hard fight but I think the JLA could take it with their superior numbers.
Originally posted by Dizzle
The real problem with the JLA offense is that Surfer is too damn powerful. I, in all honesty, see him doing very well against the entire team minus GL. He just has EVERYTHING. Truly a cosmic force.
I agree that the Surfer is by far the biggest challenge and if they don't fight smart then he very well could be the reason they lose. However I think that if you match his energy manipulation powers with the GL and add two extremely fast, strong, and skilled fighters then you could take him down.
