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For those who don't know him, he played Bastian in the second Neverending Story.

He's a much better actor than Hayden and would have done a terrific job.

Too bad he committed suicide in 2003.

For God sakes!IT WAS NOT HAYDENS FAULT!It was GL's!He was the one directing!

I agree, Hayden's acting would have been better with a different director, but Jonathan could have done much better even with a bad director.

Hmmm....
bad direction+hottible stilted dialogue=horrible acting

but this topic has really been beaten to death

I am a director. Not a hollywood director, but I direct my own films, and study film at school.

I've grown tired of people on here acting as though they know everything about directing, and about Lucas. It's not true.

Let me explain to you guys the role of a director. He is the head creative force behind a film and oversee's all aspects, yes, even the acting. However, bad acting is not always a result of the directors fault. The director tells the actor what he needs to do. However, it's the actors responsibilty to transform themeself into their character and feel that emotion inside of them.

From my own experience working with other actors, there was a scene I wanted done a certain way. I even acted the part out myself to the other person so I could show them exactly the way I wanted it done. The actor that I was working with, did a good job, but didn't match what I was looking for. I went over it again, and he still couldn't nail it dead on. At this point, the director has a few options. Go out and hire another actor, or make do with what you have. Lucas was smart, and made do with what he had. That's something any bold director would do.
Plus, Lucas made it work.


Let me give you an example of this. Why was Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiarmid's acting so good, because Lucas directed them better? No. It's because Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiarmid know how to transform themselves into their character. They understand how to control the pitch of their voice to make their dialouge sound believeable. Some actors have greater sense of emotion than others. It's just the way it works.

I'm also tired of people trashing on Lucas' script writing. Lucas can write, however, if the dialogue is not delivered properly, it destroys the script writing. Take for example Ewan McGregor's "NOOOO!" from Episode I. Everybody liked it. Why, because McGregor screamed it out right. However, everyone came on here and complained about Darth Vader's cheesy sounding "NOOOO!" in Episode 3. It's the same exact word Ewan shouted, but it was just delivered differently, and if it was delivered wrong, it certainly doesn't help out the writing any.

I'm not mad at anyone inparticular here. I've just seen it time and time again, people thinking they know everything about directing, and from a director's standpoint, I thought I should throw my 2 cents in.

Excellent post SMX. I happened to like all the "No's" even Vaders.

Besides, why are people complaining about Hayden's "NO!" even though it was voiced by James Earl Jones?

Hayden was good for Anakin. You don't know how hard a role Hayden had. He had to be evil but think he's doing good. He couldn't just be good or evil (expect at the end of ROTS) because Anakin was suppose to be struggling within. A conflict between good and evil within him.

I think Hayden filled the role well. There were some parts where he couldn't get into character very well, but when he had to be the angry Vader, he did a pretty good job of acting pissed.

And Jonathan Brandis? No...just...no.

Indeed.


Hayden did a perfect job.

In ep2, he is petulant, a whiny teen.

Ian Mcdiarmid said so, Rick McCallum said so, and George said so.

Hayden gets shit for doing his job right.

Its the CHARACTER that you don't like, not Hayden's acting.

All he does is what he's told.

Same for ep3.

Watch the Doc. "the chosen one".

GL gives him very specific ways to speak, stand, move,.....etc...




And while we are re-casting.....

Let's have Haley Joel Osmond as young ani in EP1, and the guy wno played Rufio in HOOK for young Bobba.

Originally posted by Sith Master X
I've grown tired of people on here acting as though they know everything about directing, and about Lucas. It's not true.

Let me explain to you guys the role of a director. He is the head creative force behind a film and oversee's all aspects, yes, even the acting. However, bad acting is not always a result of the directors fault. The director tells the actor what he needs to do. However, it's the actors responsibilty to transform themeself into their character and feel that emotion inside of them.
Usually, I'd agree with you... But here, I really think the 'fault' lies mostly with Lucas. I use the term 'fault' lightly because in his eyes, I'm sure there wasn't any. He's said time and again that his movies are soap operas in space... and that's where the acting's coming from. The dialogue too. I have no doubt that the acting he coached out of his cast was purposeful...

Just look at Portman. There's no way you can go from giving an Oscar-nominated performance in Closer to giving the performance she did in Sith without being told to...

Sorry, I'm not trying to undermine your clear knowledge from being in the industry... (I'm probably one of the people who annoy you ). Just saying how it looks from my perspective...

Lucas apparently chose Hayden for his presence of the Dark side.

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
Usually, I'd agree with you... But here, I really think the 'fault' lies mostly with Lucas. I use the term 'fault' lightly because in his eyes, I'm sure there wasn't any. He's said time and again that his movies are soap operas in space... and that's where the acting's coming from. The dialogue too. I have no doubt that the acting he coached out of his cast was purposeful...

Just look at Portman. There's no way you can go from giving an Oscar-nominated performance in Closer to giving the performance she did in Sith without being told to...

Sorry, I'm not trying to undermine your clear knowledge from being in the industry... (I'm probably one of the people who annoy you ). Just saying how it looks from my perspective...

No, you're not annoying me at all. lol I respect your opinion entirely.

Director's are responsible for actor's performances to an extent. The thing is, it's just not "always" their fault for bad acting, is my key point. It helps to have a director who can give the actor a good insight on what exactly it is they need to do, rather than a director who's just like "ahh, do whatever you want."

You did make an excellent point about Portman though. I won't argue there.

One last thing too for everyone.
Keep in mind how difficult it is to act in an environment where everything you see is either blue or green. Again, this is from my own experience. I mean you literally have to envision everything that's going on in this futuristic like atmosphere, and you're not even really there, just blue or green all around you. Even Ewan McGregor said this was difficult.

I'm in the process of doing a Star Wars fan film, most of which is done in front of a green screen. I'll tell you, it's really cool to think about some of the stuff you're doing. Filming upstairs in a hallway in front a green screen, then going onto the editing system and creating a magnificant illusion to the audience by adding background environments.
It's a wonderful experience. I know it was for Lucas too. He had alot of fun with what he doing, creating that illusion, just as I have. Basically, that's why I'm able to relate to him so much.
Anyone interested in seeing screenshots of my film, with greenscreen, and then the same shot again with the background environment added later, send me a PM. I'll be happy to show you how the proccess works.

Originally posted by Fox5
For God sakes!IT WAS NOT HAYDENS FAULT!It was GL's!He was the one directing!
thanks you!!!

James Franco also could have been a cool anakin

Originally posted by rubinator
James Franco also could have been a cool anakin

Did everyone else just jump to a scary visual place?

Originally posted by Sith Master X

Director's are responsible for actor's performances to an extent. The thing is, it's just not "always" their fault for bad acting, is my key point. It helps to have a director who can give the actor a good insight on what exactly it is they need to do, rather than a director who's just like "ahh, do whatever you want."
.
Keep in mind how difficult it is to act in an environment where everything you see is either blue or green. Again, this is from my own experience. I mean you literally have to envision everything that's going on in this futuristic like atmosphere, and you're not even really there, just blue or green all around you. Even Ewan McGregor said this was difficult.

But surely thats Lucas' fault?

I get what your saying, but like Devil Dodo said, most of the fault lies with Lucas. He's the grand visionary, where he's the boss and has full control. Everyone has to like what he likes and everyone has to follow him. He says when a performance is "good enough" so it's his fault.

The dialog, although intentionally "bad", just wasn't as charming, likable or as entertaining as the Original Trilogy, and thats what hurt it the most.

The acting seems to be a giant grey area though. Alec Guiness in the originals was absolutely brilliant, as were Frank Oz's Yoda and Palpatine.

Sure Palpatine was good in Sith, but don't you think he came across as a caracature of the ROTJ Emperor? Like Lucas was basing the character off of ROTJ, rather than making McDairmid BECOME him again? Same goes for Yoda, who seemed to be a bad impression of classic OT Yoda.

Originally posted by Darth Nepulis
For those who don't know him, he played Bastian in the second Neverending Story.

I'm cringing
James Franco would look like James Dean in a Jedi robe

Sith Master X is right.

Hayden's did well in RotS. Better than most people would've done. But he just couldn't completely become Anakin. I'm not saying he didn't act like him, but he didn't become him, like a perfect actor. I don't blame him, though. Anakin's shifting emotions are very difficult to play out.

Originally posted by rubinator
James Franco also could have been a cool anakin

Yeah I thought that too when Spiderman 2 came out...he played the 'bad' side nicely..

Johnathan Brandis.....shoulda coulda woulda....BUT DIDNT. End of story.

I think Hayden did really well. I was pleased with him. James Franco did do a good job being bad. I could see him being bad more often.

People keep dissing Portman's performance too, but I thought she was wonderful. I think a lot of people expected the ROTS Padme to play G.I. Jane and start taking out battle droids. But the character's pregnant! She HAD to stand around and stay out of the fighting this time. So because the character sat on sofas a lot in the film, (that's what pregnant women do, they get a LOT of rest... especially ones carrying twins!) they think she was dull dull dull.

But I think a pregnant character has a greater responsibility than blasting droids, she's got to stay safe. Plus all the events unfolding around her make her almost the central character of the movie, as everyone seems to go to her to check things out. Anakin tells her his nightmares, Anakin lies to her on the veranda before he goes to Mustafar, Obi-wan tells her about Anakin going to the dark side. And finally on the lava planet, Portman's performance was awesome. I choked up with tears the most at that scene, and most of it was due to Portman's performance, and Lucas's writing and directing. Mock Lucas if you want but that scene was unbelievably powerful and I give him credit when it's due.

(To paraphrase a famous play review), Portman is a buzzsaw of an actress and Star Wars is mostly a toothpick of a movie. But the times when both are on, oh man it's a wonder to behold. That's what I love about it.

I can't see anyone BUT Hayden as Anakin. At first I was like, oh here we go, picking some little teen idol pretty boy type, but after seeing him, I was throughly pleased. And in ROTS, I connected with him...I don't mean to sound gay or anything, but I could feel what he felt, I understood his thought process even when he wasn't speaking. The only part I thought he looked uncomfortable in was the part on the couch,"you know i think this war is.." when talking to Padme. Other than that, I don't think anyone could do a better job.

Brandis? C'mon man...have you SEEN Sidekicks? That other little show he was on with water and shit...I don't know the name of it...

He prolly committed suicide because someone made him watch NES2...no, that was mean, sorry.
But no.

And i thought that the guy from Spider-Man looked like him, but would NEVER do as good of a job as Hayden.

And I swear to God, if anyone says Paul Walker, Ill f*ckin scream.

haha..Billy Bob Thorton..."hey bub, I'm the F*ckin darkside now, get me a beer and a sith b!tch with nice t!ts!"

I thought I read somewhere that Brandis committed suicide about a year ago? Wasn't he the actor that starred in "Sidekicks" with Chuck Norris? Please corect me if I'm wrong.

Yup. And it's three years ago, I heard.

who this guy?? he looks like a ***!

Originally posted by spekdah
who this guy?? he looks like a ***! looks like a DEUSCH BAG

That's hilarious!

Originally posted by Darth Nepulis
For those who don't know him, he played Bastian in the second Neverending Story.

He's a much better actor than Hayden and would have done a terrific job.

Too bad he committed suicide in 2003.


That kid is like 30 something now. Are you Fuking-A-Stupid?

Oh wait the kid from sidekicks? puke

Originally posted by OB1-adobe
That kid is like 30 something now. Are you Fuking-A-Stupid?

Oh wait the kid from sidekicks? puke



Look him up on Google. He committed suicide 3 years ago, unless you know of a different actor with the same name.

well that could have worked out quite well for ROTS, he could have just allowed himself to REALLY get killed for the film at the end instead of comitting suicide

Don't ****en joke about suicide furious

Enough with that shit. Grow up!

Look who's talking...

People say that they couldn't picture anyone BUT Hayden as Anakin.

Thing is... if say, Mark Whalberg played him... everyone would say they couldn't picture anyone but MARK playing Anakin.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Look who's talking...

Mind pointing out where I've said something that cold-hearted? rolleyes1

Hmm, wasn't talking about that...

Originally posted by Darth Nepulis
Grow up!

Originally posted by Sith Master X
I am a director. Not a hollywood director, but I direct my own films, and study film at school.

I've grown tired of people on here acting as though they know everything about directing, and about Lucas. It's not true.

Let me explain to you guys the role of a director. He is the head creative force behind a film and oversee's all aspects, yes, even the acting. However, bad acting is not always a result of the directors fault. The director tells the actor what he needs to do. However, it's the actors responsibilty to transform themeself into their character and feel that emotion inside of them.

From my own experience working with other actors, there was a scene I wanted done a certain way. I even acted the part out myself to the other person so I could show them exactly the way I wanted it done. The actor that I was working with, did a good job, but didn't match what I was looking for. I went over it again, and he still couldn't nail it dead on. At this point, the director has a few options. Go out and hire another actor, or make do with what you have. Lucas was smart, and made do with what he had. That's something any bold director would do.
Plus, Lucas made it work.


Let me give you an example of this. Why was Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiarmid's acting so good, because Lucas directed them better? No. It's because Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiarmid know how to transform themselves into their character. They understand how to control the pitch of their voice to make their dialouge sound believeable. Some actors have greater sense of emotion than others. It's just the way it works.

I'm also tired of people trashing on Lucas' script writing. Lucas can write, however, if the dialogue is not delivered properly, it destroys the script writing. Take for example Ewan McGregor's "NOOOO!" from Episode I. Everybody liked it. Why, because McGregor screamed it out right. However, everyone came on here and complained about Darth Vader's cheesy sounding "NOOOO!" in Episode 3. It's the same exact word Ewan shouted, but it was just delivered differently, and if it was delivered wrong, it certainly doesn't help out the writing any.

I'm not mad at anyone inparticular here. I've just seen it time and time again, people thinking they know everything about directing, and from a director's standpoint, I thought I should throw my 2 cents in.

I completely agree with you. As an actor myself I know how important it is that the actor meld himself into his role.

People bash Lucas like it was his fault which is was not. Hayden simply is not the best actor around, but he was all Lucas had.

Originally posted by Rayvann
I completely agree with you. As an actor myself I know how important it is that the actor meld himself into his role.

People bash Lucas like it was his fault which is was not. Hayden simply is not the best actor around, but he was all Lucas had.

No sir.

As posted before, GL, RM, Ian, Ewan, and everybody involved said Hayden did his job perfectly.

He played the character EXACTLY as George wanted teenage/young adult Vader to be.


You just didn't like the creative decision George made.

You hate the CHARACTER, not the perfomance of it, which was spot on.

Originally posted by Darth Nepulis
Don't ****en joke about suicide furious

Enough with that shit. Grow up!


maybe he shouldve 'grown up' and asked for help?

Hayden did what he was told and played Anakin the way that George told him to. As I've said before, he wanted to play Anakin differently, but this is what George wanted.

And that was a pretty old picture of Jonathan Brandis that someone posted. He was about 27 when he died.

I dont see why people should question Haydens performance, its not like we're all expecting an Oscar award , at the end of the day its really up to the Director to bring out and guide the actor to his/her best performance or , at least, to the directors expectations of fufilling the story telling.
Its hard is this case cos well all knew the story ( relativly) before we saw it on screen therefore the expectation was always gonna be big, take into account the expectations of ANY Starwars movie also the fact that we all think money is no object and the unlimited possibilties of Digital movie-making, hell , I think we all over expected he greatest movies ever and got good ones none-the-less.
Its didnt help that GL cant direct for sh*t. He's well known as being a 'Directors director' , not an ' Actors director".

Actors to Lucas might as well have a word balloon over their heads. The whole Star Wars vibe is that it's basically a living, breathing SCI-FI comic book.

The visual element and music carry the Star Wars experience, and the characters are secondary according to Lucas. This is the Star Wars style, sometimes done more than at other times (AOTC as one extreme, Empire as the other).

Having said that...this dialogue together with some of the acting still manages to strike false notes, and at the end of the day, only McDairmid, Ford, and Lee are the ones who REALLY shine with the material they're given.

...hard to blame the actors.

Or the director.



Again, its the CHARACTER that you have a problem with. (I'm assuming that we are still talking about Hayden in EP2 and 3?)


George perfectly directed Hayden to play the character the way that George wanted him to be,....

and Hayden perfectly portrayed him the way that George wanted him to be.


You just wanted Anakin/Vader to be someone else than George says he is.