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who wins ?

torch and iceman 10/10


torch goes supernova and flays hulk, while iceman freezes his skeleton.

has Torch the heat .... to do damage against hulk ?

and what can Ice Man really do against hulk... can the ice hurt him ?

Hulk has been in space without gear (well, he had respirator), that's pretty damn good resistance to cold considering that he showed no ill effects. Also, Torch can't keep nova up forever. Maybe he has enough time to destroy Hulk, maybe not.

Originally posted by Betageuze
has Torch the heat .... to do damage against hulk ?

and what can Ice Man really do against hulk... can the ice hurt him ?

Yes, he has the heat to damage Hulk.

Read my words closely...

Human Torch goes Supernova and flays Hulk, down to his bones. Before he can heal himself, Iceman flash freezes his skeleton. Hulk is dead.

Originally posted by Tshern
Hulk has been in space without gear that's pretty damn good resistance to cold

I'll pretend I didn't just see that.

He has a damn good resistance to cold. Iceman's power level has changed so much during the years and there definitely are some versions that couldn't even scratch the Hulk, don't you think?

Originally posted by Tshern
He has a damn good resistance to cold. Iceman's power level has changed so much during the years and there definitely are some versions that couldn't even scratch the Hulk, don't you think?

I've already given a scenario where they beat him though. Read above.

i think hulk would take this 5.5/10, i dont think the nova wouldent damage the hulk to much for the whole ice man freezin him while he regenerates. he takes nukes in the face without being damaged.
also ice man would want to be any where around while toruch does the super nova.
http://www.incrediblehulk.com/nukeresistance.html
http://www.incrediblehulk.com/finfangfoomresistance.html

Your scenario depends on various factors. Firstly, Human Torch would be burning Iceman too while doing his nova flame and I'm pretty sure that Hulk resists heat better than Iceman.

Secondly, Hulk has proven to have huge resistance to cold and a healing factor that's along the best in the Marvel Universe. Really, Hulk could deal with the punishment that Iceman deals. I might be wrong since I don't know Iceman's current power level. It's one of my problems, can't afford to buy every comic.

Thirdly, if Torch cannot destroy Hulk with one try he's gone. And since he has to watch out for Iceman in your scenario he will have serious troubles damaging Hulk without burning Iceman a new one.

Originally posted by Tshern
Your scenario depends on various factors. Firstly, Human Torch would be burning Iceman too while doing his nova flame and I'm pretty sure that Hulk resists heat better than Iceman.

Secondly, Hulk has proven to have huge resistance to cold and a healing factor that's along the best in the Marvel Universe. Really, Hulk could deal with the punishment that Iceman deals. I might be wrong since I don't know Iceman's current power level. It's one of my problems, can't afford to buy every comic.

Thirdly, if Torch cannot destroy Hulk with one try he's gone. And since he has to watch out for Iceman in your scenario he will have serious troubles damaging Hulk without burning Iceman a new one.

^cosigned

Can Hulk be turned back to Banner?

Thanks a lot. I, however, don't know who really takes the majority hear, but with that tactics Hulk has the advantage.

Originally posted by spideycarnage
i think hulk would take this 5.5/10, i dont think the nova wouldent damage the hulk to much for the whole ice man freezin him while he regenerates. he takes nukes in the face without being damaged.
also ice man would want to be any where around while toruch does the super nova.
http://www.incrediblehulk.com/nukeresistance.html
http://www.incrediblehulk.com/finfangfoomresistance.html

Johnny goes hotter than a Nuclear Explosion. And its not a matter of whether he survives it, but he will be flayed to his skeleton. And iceman can exist as water molecules.

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Johnny goes hotter than a Nuclear Explosion. And its not a matter of whether he survives it, but he will be flayed to his skeleton. And iceman can exist as water molecules.

can iceman reform himself before hulk regenerates?

That's his current power level? He's way better than he used to be then.

Originally posted by spideycarnage
can iceman reform himself before hulk regenerates?

Hulk regenerates pretty damn fast, so I dont know. But really Hulk should really be turned into the dust in the event of a supernova.

I dont see how bones are meant to survive 1000000 centigrade heat.

Originally posted by spideycarnage
can iceman reform himself before hulk regenerates?

Hulks body has to go through the process of growth such as muscles, viens, tissue etc. Iceman takes the moisture from the air and forms. He cuts out all the other stuff cause hes just ice.

Back when X-Factor fought Hulk, Iceman froze him so cold that he wasnt able to get angry enough to break out. Although it was grey Hulk, it was still ice-coated Iceman, and the same "get madder, get stronger" rule applied.

Iceman could just freeze the bloodflow to the brain and revert him back to Banner.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Back when X-Factor fought Hulk, Iceman froze him so cold that he wasnt able to get angry enough to break out. Although it was grey Hulk, it was still ice-coated Iceman, and the same "get madder, get stronger" rule applied.

Iceman could just freeze the bloodflow to the brain and revert him back to Banner.

that would work also. then they kill banner for fun.

Within seconds, the Hulk recovers from a near-skeletal state.
http://img130.exs.cx/img130/3038/Healing.jpg
if his skelton remains, he has a chance agianst the super nova

If he has moisture in his body, then Ice Man would be able to freeze him to the point where he can't move, basically putting him in suspended animation.

Remember that Hulk doesn't have to kill Iceman, punching him to smithereens is enough. Current Iceman seems very powerful, though. I'm ready to give the team a majority.

Originally posted by Tshern
Remember that Hulk doesn't have to kill Iceman, punching him to smithereens is enough.

Thats false. Iceman has been broken into pieces and has reformed in seconds.

But there's no stipulation stating that he should be completely killed. Just throwing options here, incapacitating both is enough. Whether it is possible or not is a different issue.

Originally posted by Tshern
But there's no stipulation stating that he should be completely killed. Just throwing options here, incapacitating both is enough. Whether it is possible or not is a different issue.

it isn't. he has existed as conciousness in a pond before.

But if he doesn't have a body and cannot fight he's out of the game. So, if he's beaten up real bad and he can't recover soon he's out of the game. It's like a knock out, even if he's still alive he isn't in the match.

Edit: An example of same kind of a situation is reverting Hulk back to Banner. Hulk loses the match if that happens. Right? Not trying to be offensive though, you've made it clear that the team has a very good chance at taking the majority.

Originally posted by Tshern
But if he doesn't have a body and cannot fight he's out of the game. So, if he's beaten up real bad and he can't recover soon he's out of the game. It's like a knock out, even if he's still alive he isn't in the match.

Not so. Hed still have a consiousness and would still be able to operate to effectiveness. There was a time when he didnt have a body and still gathered all the moisture from the opponents body to reform himself thus dehydrating the enemy and killing them.

=-)

Can he drain it out of the Hulk? This guy's for example walked on antimatter. Does he have any range limit in his moisture sucking? Well anyhow, it would be a nice match where Torch and Iceman would take a majority.

Originally posted by Tshern
Can he drain it out of the Hulk? This guy's for example walked on antimatter. Does he have any range limit in his moisture sucking? Well anyhow, it would be a nice match where Torch and Iceman would take a majority.

I personally think Torch and Bobby take all. But in answer to your question, yes. Iceman would be able to drain the moisture out of the Hulk. Nothing is stopping him from doing so. Banner does have blood and water inside his body when in Hulk form, so i dont think thats a problem. Hmmm, range limit? Im sure he does, but it hasnt been established i reckon. I wont go and say he can do it from 100 yards, but ill say its possible from 15-20 feet.

It's hard to say anything for sure as Marvel is so inconsistent.


Hulk also is matter. So everything would depend on the writer since real world physics has never been a problem to Marvel.


I'm pretty sure we're never going to agree on this because I believe that Hulk has a chance to pick a few victories. It's probably not worth it to continue the debate. But thanks for all the new information you gave me, it's nice to learn new things.

Originally posted by Tshern
It's hard to say anything for sure as Marvel is so inconsistent.

True.


Originally posted by Tshern
Hulk also is matter. So everything would depend on the writer since real world physics has never been a problem to Marvel.

Everyone is matter technically. Either way, Hulk still contains water inside his body.

Originally posted by Tshern
I'm pretty sure we're never going to agree on this because I believe that Hulk has a chance to pick a few victories. It's probably not worth it to continue the debate. But thanks for all the new information you gave me, it's nice to learn new things.

np.

True. Thus, Hulk should have reacted with antimatter. Well, antimatter really (if there's such thing) is just matter that reacts with every other form of matter. What I mean is that if the match really happened in comics Iceman probably wasn't able to suck the moisture. Maybe one day we'll see.

Who knows. Id still put my money on Iceman.

He's the coolest of these three, that's for sure. Right there before Hulk.

I'd go with the team. Their first and most obvious avenue of attack would be a Nova flame from Johnny. Now the effectiveness of this would be in question as the Hulk has withstood point blank nuclear detonations before. If Johnny had a little more stamina I might be inclined to say he could kill the Hulk, but as it stands I see him only as a secondary player (which is fine as he can fly and act to at least distract the Hulk).

The real reason I see the team winning is Iceman. As any damage to his body can be repaired with moisture from the air and the fact that he can exist without a physical body the Hulk really has no way to actually defeat him. While Iceman does have a large range of attacks that might be able to beat the Hulk. Freezing of the blood and/or other internal organs or drawing moisture out of Hulk's body might work.

However I think the distinction needs to be made between what Iceman can potentially do and the level of "cold" the Hulk has experience before. At his most powerful Iceman could stop the motion of the molecules in the Hulk's body, an attack which the Hulk really has no defense of. Why is this important as Iceman isn't at that level yet? Well as I said the Hulk really can't kill Iceman so I see this fight taking a long time. If Iceman ever wants for it to be over he'd better start practicing his abilities until they get to a high enough level to put the Hulk down. So I see the team winning in a year or two long fight.

The Hulk could thunderclap and cool off the torch. If Ice man is anywhere un the vicinity he is likely to be knocked unconscious as well.

http://www.incrediblehulk.com/torchthunderclap.html

Hulk definitely has ways to win. When Iceman comes close enough the aforementioned thunderclap would put him down for a moment and that's just what Hulk needs to hurl him to the orbit. No moisture, no Iceman.

Yes with one well timed thunderclap both HT and IM are out whereas HT and IM would need to work together to take Hulk out. I see an easier win for Hulk.

Originally posted by TheKahn
At his most powerful Iceman could stop the motion of the molecules in the Hulk's body, an attack which the Hulk really has no defense of. Why is this important as Iceman isn't at that level yet?

Iceman is at that level and has been so since the mid 90's.

Or a standing ovation? Hehe, I'd like to see that.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Iceman is at that level and has been so since the mid 90's.

If Ice man reacts that quickly than I'd give the team the nod for the majority. Would he though?

I see no reason why Torch would even get close enough to Hulk for him to deliver a thunderclap. Hes much faster than Hulk and has a ton of range on his side. If he gets thunderclapped, his ass deserved it. Like stated before, Bobby is well capable of executing moves while not intact. I doubt Hulk would pick up every bit of ice and hurl it into orbit. All that would be needed is once piece of ice. Iceman would/should be able to gather moisture from the air, reform himself and stop the velocity before entering orbit.

Originally posted by meep-meep
If Ice man reacts that quickly than I'd give the team the nod for the majority. Would he though?

Iceman controlling the water in ones body is pretty effortless and instantaneous. It takes much less for him to do that than for Torch to go nova. Much much less.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Iceman is at that level and has been so since the mid 90's.

I was always under the impression that that was just his potential and because of his attitude he only scratched the surface of what he was capable of (like when the White Queen took over his body and was able to use his power much more effectively). I mean at his top level all he would have to do is think and everything around him would stop moving instantly. I was unaware he had reached that level.

HULK SMASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Poor Bobby and Johnny really have NO CHANCE! Regardless of what anyone says, they are both screwed...there is really nothing Iceman or Human Torch can do to stop the Hulk or put him down for long or for good...but Hulk on the other hand.....

First of all, Human Torch is sincerely f**ked...especially if he's tangeling with the savage Hulk...there is not one damn thing Torch could do that's taking down the Hulk. Now, I know what everyone's gonna say..."..but what if he goes nova..?" Well, if you pick up the recent issue of Fantastic Four (Issue #535), the Torch does in fact go nova and it doesn't even bother Hulk...the only hope the Torch has is to fly away, fly far far away and don't look back. Hulk thunderclaps him, snuffs out his flame, and then snaps him like a toothpick. The Hulk can take being frozen solid and survive. Not only does the Hulk get stronger the madder he gets, but his body's resistance becomes more and more powerful and it's almost impossible to hurt him. In Hulk issue #372, Hulk is frozen solid, but is able to break out of it because of his intense rage. Sure Iceman could probably do something extreme, but that will take time. And Hulk's not going to be standing around long enough or be in one place long enough for Iceman to do anything drastic like that. Hulk can move up to 400 mph and he will have his big green hands around Bobby's neck before Iceman can hope to do anything. Hulk either knocks him out or just grabs him and throws him into orbit around the earth...like I said...."HULK SMASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

If HT and IM do what they should they got this in the bag 10/10.

^ Yup.

khan look at me and jrods respect thread. At his top level (that he has reached so far) he froze the freakin stranger. He became a part of "everything". He can simply freeze the molecules in the Hulks body, simple as that. Space is three degrees above absolute zero, but iceman can get it colder than that. If hulk catches him and throws him he can "teleport" through the water molcules back, or just fight him while in water vapor form (meaning that the one trick pony can do NOTHING to him) while iceman flash freezes his ass.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
khan look at me and jrods respect thread. At his top level (that he has reached so far) he froze the freakin stranger. He became a part of "everything". He can simply freeze the molecules in the Hulks body, simple as that. Space is three degrees above absolute zero, but iceman can get it colder than that. If hulk catches him and throws him he can "teleport" through the water molcules back, or just fight him while in water vapor form (meaning that the one trick pony can do NOTHING to him) while iceman flash freezes his ass.

surprise


Damn. Iceman is badass.

yes he is......

I think Hulk eats ice man like a popcicle and spits or human torch and puts him out like a candle.

Space is three degrees above absolute zero?

Hell, Namor has survived in space without even noticing it...didn't know that his superhuman ability to adjust to cold went that far. Thanks for the info.