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IMO this should be close. In Obsession, which takes place five months before ROTS, Anakin took on Durge and won, though not before taking a serious beating himself. I have no doubt in my mind that ROTS Anakin could take Grievous. Obsession Anakin isn't that far behind ROTS Anakin, though, him vs. Greivous would be close. I'll give it to Grievous, though, cause Grievous is stronger than Durge, who nearly killed Anakin.

Ok.

Certain circumstances led to Anakins difficulty in defeating Durge... mainly being his enemies defenses. Grievous does not possess that form of defence. Anakin DID defeat Dooku... Dooku was far superiour a duelist than Grievous, so I would say Anakin takes this victory home. The difference between Anakin's skill in Obsession and ROTS was never that great. I for one am not aware of any great revelations in Anakin's dueling style between the two periods.

Anakin wins this, though he wont take it easily. Other then Obi-Wan, Yoda, Windu and Anakin I think GG would kill most any other Jedi. And since Anakin form tries to physically overpower the opponent, I think he'd have a harder time with GG then Kenobi, because Anakin isnt going to physically overpower GG by any means. Where Kenobi's style works perfectly against people trying to break your defence through power, thats why he pWned GG. I think that Kenobi was the best suited of ALL the Jedi Masters to kill GG, even more so then Yoda or Windu, simply because his mastery of Form III mirrored GG's style perfectly.

So though Anakin wins, he wins with a good fight. There is also the issue of Anakin having the force, and being quite powerful with it. And we saw what a simple force push (by someone somewhat near Anakin's level of power) did to GG, so Anakin has the advantage of the force as well.

Luminara would probably stand a chance as well as Cin Drallig.

If RotS Anakin would be able to pwn Grievous, I'd say Obsession Anakin would be able to at least defeat him.

Yes, but he got five more omenths of hardcore practice to get stronger between Obsession and ROTS, when he beat Dooku. Labyrinth of Evil states that Grievous isn't far behind Dooku (without using the Force, anyways).

I disagree. He grew alot intellectually during that five months and he was getting stronger all the time.

((The_Anomaly)), we disagree for once, but at least you think it'd be close.



For once, I agree with Numan, Luminara could do it for sure and, according to Dooku, so could Cin.

And Dooku was still a much better duelist than Anakin, so that point is null.... but still, the conclusion is correct. Anakin wins.

Well anakin did push Dooku's lightsaber into back into his shoulder. He soloed, Dooku without Obi Wan, and I am reluctant to say that Dooku wasn't giving his all.

You're right, he probably wasn't.

Not according to Lucas

I think it'd be silly to think that a verified Form II master lost against a twenty some year old Form V user from anything other than being careless or not taking the fight seriously. If he HAD been taking the fight seriously, he would have force choked Anakin, since Obi-Wan wasn't a threat to his fighting style. Also, he would have used force lightning like it was his job. He didn't. Hence, he wasn't going balls to the wall against either of them.

And again:

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2119/000obithrow9wk1wy7gs.gif

Does this appear to be someone who would have trouble with a mere boy if giving his all? Sounds like either Lucas is being taken out of context or he's trying to fluff up Anakin's feat more than it really was presented.

As far as the EU goes, Dooku was ordered to lose as of LOE. And only in one source is that contradicted, and that's the ROTS Novelization. However, one must consider that the ROTS Novelization has many inconsitancies with the movies and previous concepts already established in EU (eg, Kit becoming an ornament, Obi-Wan doging 1000 blaster bolts, Sidious being the uberest darkest sithest mostest powerefulest sithiest lordiest sith lord ever, etc.).

It's N-Canon as far as I'm concerned. And it's not hard to believe Dooku DID fake the fight.

The movies are unclear about Anakin >=< Dooku... but even there it's logical to assume Dooku toned it down a little and just slipped up.

And I believe Lucas commentated on Dooku not knowing Sidious' plans of turning Anakin. That's it. Hell (I hate to bring this source up), but in the ROTS novel (or was it LOE?), Dooku wanted Anakin to join *him*(IIRC). Notice how he was goading him throughout the entire fight...

And plus Dooku himself would give Sidious hell, if not even defeat him. I doubt Anakin was the most powerful being in the galaxy, save Yoda, at this point.

Lucas tends to try to be ambiguous so people can make their own answers for things. Lately, the focus on the "correct" answer has led to a lot of problems with determining this for this subforum.

Honestly, it could have just been Dooku having a bad day.

The only real purpose for elaborating that scene at all is for us at the versus forum, otherwise it's a pretty moot topic.

Agreed. Anakin won, it perpetuates the prequel and validifies this "Chosen One" BS, therefore it is okay.

Originally posted by Wesker
I think it'd be silly to think that a verified Form II master lost against a twenty some year old Form V user from anything other than being careless or not taking the fight seriously. If he HAD been taking the fight seriously, he would have force choked Anakin, since Obi-Wan wasn't a threat to his fighting style. Also, he would have used force lightning like it was his job. He didn't. Hence, he wasn't going balls to the wall against either of them.

And again:

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2119/000obithrow9wk1wy7gs.gif

Does this appear to be someone who would have trouble with a mere boy if giving his all? Sounds like either Lucas is being taken out of context or he's trying to fluff up Anakin's feat more than it really was presented.

Hey Wesker, wern't you the one who created the make-fun-of-Glentract for saying the movies are more canon than Lucas thread? And now your taking what happened in the first 1/2 of the Dooku vs. Obi-Wan and Anakin duel as more official than Lucas? After all the shit you gave Glentract?

Originally posted by darthsith19
Hey Wesker, wern't you the one who created the make-fun-of-Glentract for saying the movies are more canon than Lucas thread? And now your taking what happened in the first 1/2 of the Dooku vs. Obi-Wan and Anakin duel as more official than Lucas? After all the shit you gave Glentract?

No, I'm telling you that from where I'm standing, this hearsay doesn't wash. I have the ROTS DVD finally, so I intend to fully review the fight again AND finally hear the comment with my own ears. As it stands, it sounds like bullshit, looks like bullshit...

Hm, must be bullshit.

If Obi-Wan could handle Grievous with little difficulty in ROTS, I daresay Anakin would smash the bastard.

I understand that not alot of people like Anakin, and thats fine, everyone has their own opinions and the rights to them. But the fact is, and i sincerely don't mean this in an argumentative way, Anakin IS the chosen one, and meant to be more powerful than almost anyone. I know that when he gets burnt up, he hasnt reached that point yet, but he would have. I think the Dooku fight was just a poor example of both fighter's power. They didn't want Dooku to look like a slouch since he was a badass, but they still had to convey how powerful Anakin truly was at that point. I think they got some things mixed up in there. And I may be wrong, but wasn't LOE written after ROTS? If so, that gives that particular author the freedom to play with the story as he sees fit, within reason of course, hence why its not canon.

I think that OB1 getting tossed aside was sorta symbolic with what Anakin had been saying all along, and thats that OB1 was holding him back. Being as Anakin did nothing impressive while OB1 was by his side, but when he was out of the way, and he had the opportunity to give in to some of his anger, he couldn't be stopped. Being as GL said Dooku thought he was just going to fight him, doesn't give any indication that Dooku knew to lose or go easy on him. But i will also say that it leaves room for speculation, to suspect that he may have been.

I think they made Anakin win seemingly "easy" just to demonstrate his raw power, but did i tin a way inconsistent of previous trends. Never before have we seen him demonstrate a skill level of that magnitude. And that could very well also have been why they did it, to show his immense growth since we last saw him. I just don't see the benefit to the Emperor of telling Dooku to lose or hold back if he wants to see where Anakin truly is power wise. He even told GG that his new apprentice was more powerful (via hologram).

I think Anakin would take this with moderate difficulty. I think he would be forced to revise his game plan seeing as he cant match physical strength with GG, so it would result in him having to use his mind to ultimately destroy him. Which I think Anakin is smarter than people give him credit for. He obviously doesn't always show it, but I think he's extremely intelligent given his abilities as a young boy. So if Anakin was calm and thinking clearly, he would take it, and I see no reason why he would feel flustered.

Point is, Dooku's better than them both.

Uh, darth Subject, when did Chosen One = uber badass over all?

I understand that not alot of people like Anakin, and thats fine, everyone has their own opinions and the rights to them. But the fact is, and i sincerely don't mean this in an argumentative way, Anakin IS the chosen one, and meant to be more powerful than almost anyone. I know that when he gets burnt up, he hasnt reached that point yet, but he would have. I think the Dooku fight was just a poor example of both fighter's power. They didn't want Dooku to look like a slouch since he was a badass, but they still had to convey how powerful Anakin truly was at that point. I think they got some things mixed up in there. And I may be wrong, but wasn't LOE written after ROTS? If so, that gives that particular author the freedom to play with the story as he sees fit, within reason of course, hence why its not canon.

I think that OB1 getting tossed aside was sorta symbolic with what Anakin had been saying all along, and thats that OB1 was holding him back. Being as Anakin did nothing impressive while OB1 was by his side, but when he was out of the way, and he had the opportunity to give in to some of his anger, he couldn't be stopped. Being as GL said Dooku thought he was just going to fight him, doesn't give any indication that Dooku knew to lose or go easy on him. But i will also say that it leaves room for speculation, to suspect that he may have been.

I think they made Anakin win seemingly "easy" just to demonstrate his raw power, but did i tin a way inconsistent of previous trends. Never before have we seen him demonstrate a skill level of that magnitude. And that could very well also have been why they did it, to show his immense growth since we last saw him. I just don't see the benefit to the Emperor of telling Dooku to lose or hold back if he wants to see where Anakin truly is power wise. He even told GG that his new apprentice was more powerful (via hologram).

I think Anakin would take this with moderate difficulty. I think he would be forced to revise his game plan seeing as he cant match physical strength with GG, so it would result in him having to use his mind to ultimately destroy him. Which I think Anakin is smarter than people give him credit for. He obviously doesn't always show it, but I think he's extremely intelligent given his abilities as a young boy. So if Anakin was calm and thinking clearly, he would take it, and I see no reason why he would feel flustered.

That was a pretty good read...

Originally posted by Wesker
No, I'm telling you that from where I'm standing, this hearsay doesn't wash. I have the ROTS DVD finally, so I intend to fully review the fight again AND finally hear the comment with my own ears. As it stands, it sounds like bullshit, looks like bullshit...

Hm, must be bullshit.
Well, go listen to it already so then you can shut up with your movies > GL bullshit.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Well, go listen to it already so then you can shut up with your movies > GL bullshit.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1622/8f30f8f55758e4f929ee2c45e26313.jpg

Read my posts slower next time, dumbass.

Lol.

Originally posted by Wesker
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1622/8f30f8f55758e4f929ee2c45e26313.jpg

Read my posts slower next time, dumbass.
Okay, dumbass, I read it slower. You said what GL said in the AC must be bullshit. Just cause you disagree with him you think it's bullshit.

Obi1s style countered Grievous's though. Anakin would have a lot more trouble than Obi countering the Generals attacks. Also, Anakin doesn't utilize the force much when he fights, so I believe Grievous might be able to take this.

No, it wasn't his form that defeated Grievous, it was his skill. Notice how he cut down Grievous in seconds? Anakin would've done the same thing. In fact, if the fight was based on form, Anakin would destroy Grievous even faster because of his form, and Obi-Wan would've been a long fight. Anakin is on par with Obi-Wan, so he shouldn't have much trouble.

Form III was stated to be effective against Greivous' "saber from all directions" style.

No arker, his form was ideal against Grievous.

Part of the reason they chose him.

Again, the form only sets them in a direction. It was Kenobi's skill that did it.

But you just stated that Anakin would deal with him quicker because he utilises schien. Seeing as Kenobi and Anakin are pretty much level in terms of dueling skill, you are basically implying that schien was better suited against Grievous then soresu.

Read my post more carefully. I said:

"In fact, if the fight was based on form..."

I'm telling him that you can't base the outcome of a fight on form alone.

"In fact, if the fight was based on form, Anakin would destroy Grievous even faster because of his form, and Obi-Wan would've been a long fight. Anakin is on par with Obi-Wan, so he shouldn't have much trouble."



This is what you said. You are implying that schien would be more effective against Grievous then soresu.

Soresu is the direct counter to Grievous's fighting style. Anakin's style is far more aggressive, and Grievous's style is EVEN more agressive. Grievous just beats Anny at his own game.

I've gotta say something about the dooku vs anakin battle. Dooku was trying to encourage anakin's anger and he succeeded in it, more than he would have thought. He really didn't expect Anakin's skill to increase that much and the hand severing trick came as a total surprise.
I'm sure that if Dooku knew Anakin's power he would have been more cautious and would have pwned him just like Obi...

Obsession Anakin would have a very hard time against Grievous. And I think he wouldn't disarm him like Obi did, but he would try to kill him with a strike to the head or something. Even if he manages to do that, I still think 1 of the 4 swinging sabers hits him and takes him down....

Originally posted by darthsith19
Okay, dumbass, I read it slower. You said what GL said in the AC must be bullshit. Just cause you disagree with him you think it's bullshit.

You know, I thought I was pretty clear, but let me break it down into sublaymen's terms so you can understand it (And confuse it for something else, most likely):

- Anomaly says that GL says that Dooku wasn't holding back. He did not give a direct quote, nor did I hear the quote myself yet.

- I don't think that explanation washes given the on-screen situation. I suspect that either GL's being taken out of context, OR he's just talking out of his ass.

- If GL's being taken out of context, then what I'm seeing on screen is affirmed.

- If GL was heard correctly, then his word's canon; I just don't agree with his stance on the fight.

- Just in case you didn't read in between the lines, nowhere am I challenging GL's decision IF it's indeed saying Dooku didn't hold back, nor am I throwing around terms like "GL is not canon".

Reading comprehension is your friend, DS.

Originally posted by skyflyer
"In fact, if the fight was based on form, Anakin would destroy Grievous even faster because of his form, and Obi-Wan would've been a long fight. Anakin is on par with Obi-Wan, so he shouldn't have much trouble."



This is what you said. You are implying that schien would be more effective against Grievous then soresu.

Can you not extract my point? READ IT CAREFULLY. The fact that I said "even if the fight was based on form" means that if the fight was set up in a scenario in which form decides the outcome, then that would've happened.

Originally posted by Wesker
You know, I thought I was pretty clear, but let me break it down into sublaymen's terms so you can understand it (And confuse it for something else, most likely):

- Anomaly says that GL says that Dooku wasn't holding back. He did not give a direct quote, nor did I hear the quote myself yet.

- I don't think that explanation washes given the on-screen situation. I suspect that either GL's being taken out of context, OR he's just talking out of his ass.

- If GL's being taken out of context, then what I'm seeing on screen is affirmed.

- If GL was heard correctly, then his word's canon; I just don't agree with his stance on the fight.

- Just in case you didn't read in between the lines, nowhere am I challenging GL's decision IF it's indeed saying Dooku didn't hold back, nor am I throwing around terms like "GL is not canon".

Reading comprehension is your friend, DS.
You must have missed me posting the quote. I posted it about three times but you must have missed it.

"In this particular case Palpatine's testing Anakin to see if he's strong enough to become his apprentice and he and he doesn't actually tell Dooku what he's up to so Dooku thinks he's just going to fight him but the whole thing was a set up by the Emperor to test Anakin's strength and when Anakin's strong enough, which he proves to be by killing Dooku, then the Emperor's ready to convert him over to the Dark Side to become his new apprentice." - George Lucas