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darth vader in 4, 5 and 6 or GG and that isnt correct about darth vader he is more human he only has his arms and legs metal

did i mention that GG has his weakneses fixed up for this battle he is complete machine aswell

Vader wins. he is completely underrated because the OT movies were made when trchnology sucked, and GL had little ambition for the characters and didn't put too much effort into the choreography.

what do people think of this new thread

If you would make threads that actually have two characters that can contest well then people would like it, also make it interesting. Vader easily takes this, quite simply read any of the comics/novels in between ROTS and ANH, it shows Vader's abilities and powers.

Done before. Anyway, depends on which GG. He would be owned against Vader if he was the ROTS version. But if he the ROTS novelization/Clone Wars version, he would put up one hell of a fight before going down to Vader.

Personally, I don't see Vader winning in a lightsabre duel, perhaps with the force, but's he ****ed if it's only a lightsabre fight. Vader simply doesn't have the mobility or speed to deal with Grievous, especially considering it took Obi-Wan Kenobi, the Soresu Master to take him down. So no, in a lightsabre fight, Grievous will win the day.

If it's not? Then I don't see Grievous being able to recover from Vader's force attacks...

Grievous from the Clone Wars might be able to beat OT Vader becuase Vader might not be fast enough to block Grievous's lightsabers. So in Purge Vader killed what? How many Jedi? Cause Grievous beat five Jedi, three which were masters, two of the masters were on the council, at once.

He kills... I believe five Jedi as well before they start turning the tables.

Still, Vader wins.

Tsui Choi was in the party that Vader killed and he was more powerful then any of the people that Grievous faced. This was also Vader still getting used to his suit.

Originally posted by skyflyer
Tsui Choi was in the party that Vader killed and he was more powerful then any of the people that Grievous faced. This was also Vader still getting used to his suit.
Yeah, and it's also total bullshit, there's no way Vader could do all that when in RODV he had trouble killing one Knight (Bol Chatak). Are we to assume that Bol Chatak, just some random Knight who managed to survive Order 66, could beat these five Jedi at once or even compete with them? And Tsui Choi was kileld by Stormtroopers, not Vader. And whether he's stronger than Mundi or Shaak Ti would be debatable. What has he ever done to be more powerful than they are?

He's in numerous comics and could possibly pose a threat to TOTS Grievous.

I believe it would be close. Grievous might be able to take Vader out before Vader can utilize his force powers. Vader CAN'T COMPETE AT ALL in a lightsaber duel, he would be slaughtered FAST.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Yeah, and it's also total bullshit, there's no way Vader could do all that when in RODV he had trouble killing one Knight (Bol Chatak). Are we to assume that Bol Chatak, just some random Knight who managed to survive Order 66, could beat these five Jedi at once or even compete with them? And Tsui Choi was kileld by Stormtroopers, not Vader. And whether he's stronger than Mundi or Shaak Ti would be debatable. What has he ever done to be more powerful than they are?

For once, I agree. You have Vader depicted very well in RoDV, struggling with his new identity and handicap, and in Purge - taking place at the same time, give or take a couple of weeks - he's wrecking Jedi Masters. With a few months or years, yeah, but Purge was queer. . .

Purge DID take place AFTER RODV, so it's not that bad. He was just getting used to the suit in RODV. By Purge, I guess he was warmed up. I mean, he was confident enough to take on a whole bunch of Jedi Masters alone.

btw, Appo was not in Purge.

Originally posted by DePWNZOR
I believe it would be close. Grievous might be able to take Vader out before Vader can utilize his force powers. Vader CAN'T COMPETE AT ALL in a lightsaber duel, he would be slaughtered FAST.

No, Vader would win in a matter of minutes, even without the Force. He's stronger than he might look.

I love how people say that the ancient sith must be quick to produce the power that they do, yet the same people claim that Vader (who is the most powerful force user (power as in strength) is as slow as ****.

But Vader lost to Luke. No matter how emotionally upset he might have been, that's still pathetic. A half trained Jedi who hasn't even dueled another force user before. I can't see Grievous losing to Luke under ANY circumstances.

If Grievous was his dad and loved Luke enough to die for him, yeah I'd see him losing.

I'd see anyone losing.

Originally posted by DePWNZOR
But Vader lost to Luke. No matter how emotionally upset he might have been, that's still pathetic. A half trained Jedi who hasn't even dueled another force user before. I can't see Grievous losing to Luke under ANY circumstances.


You must remember Luke wasn't fighting alone against Vader.
His father Anakin was fighting his battle inside Vaders head....

Grievous doesn't have petty emotions like Vader.

And anyway, Vader didn't "love Luke enough to die for him ". Obviously, since he was FIGHTING HIM he didn't love him that much.

Grievous doesn't have petty emotions like Vader.

He doesn't? We've never seen GG react to a family member before... Remember, Vader acts more hardass than GG when Luke isnt around.

And anyway, Vader didn't "love Luke enough to die for him ". Obviously, since he was FIGHTING HIM he didn't love him that much.

He was conflicted indeed, but he could have beaten Luke rather easily. Vader is 80% as powerful as ROTJ Sidious (who would be a step up from ROTS Sidious). I doubt boy with minimal training > 80% of Sidious.

Originally posted by Faunus
For once, I agree. You have Vader depicted very well in RoDV, struggling with his new identity and handicap, and in Purge - taking place at the same time, give or take a couple of weeks - he's wrecking Jedi Masters. With a few months or years, yeah, but Purge was queer. . .
Yeah, thanks Faunus. By the OT Vader might have been able to take out those Jedi, especially if he was saved my Clones like in Purge.


I heard that Appo was in Purge. Which means Purge took place before RODV as Appo died in Purge. Can someone (Faunus maybe) confirm that Appo wasn't in Purge? And either way, at the end of RODV, Vader had quite a bit of trouble with Roan Shryne, who can't be any better than Tsui Choi.

I heard that Appo was in Purge. Which means Purge took place before RODV as Appo died in Purge. Can someone (Faunus maybe) confirm that Appo wasn't in Purge? And either way, at the end of RODV, Vader had quite a bit of trouble with Roan Shryne, who can't be any better than Tsui Choi.

There was a "Commander" in the comic, but I dont remember them specifying whether it was Appo or not.

swcomics.com has the whole thing.

http://swcomics.dreamhoster.org/Purge/purge_23.jpg

Just "commander"

Yep, that has to be post-RoDV: Appo gets killed in Dark Lord, and considering he's Vader's second-hand man, I doubt his presence would be lacking after the fight of Vader's life.

Also note than Vader had to get his sorry ass saved by Clones while on Hypori it was the Jedi that the ARC troopers had to save and Grievous still emerged un injured.

Didn't Grievous take 3 Masters and 1 Knight, as apposed to 8 Masters?

Regardless, OT Vader has 25+ of Sith Training.

Eight masters? Lol, he takes one because she runs towards him like a lunatic and he takes the others because they don't seem to see that he's using a cortosis blade. The remaining three WTFpwn him...

Vader is 80 % of the Emperor in FORCE POWER. In actual lightsaber comabt, he is slow and clunky, and would be destroyed by Grievous.

Tsui Choi is pretty awesome.

Vader is 80 % of the Emperor in FORCE POWER. In actual lightsaber comabt, he is slow and clunky, and would be destroyed by Grievous.

Lucas never specified Force Powers. Stop making up facts.

Slow and clunky? He's a bit less agile, but Grievous is barely impressive in saber combat. It took Obi-Wan less than 30 seconds to cut one arm off, and a grand total of 4 minutes to pwn his ass with a force push. And unless you're going to argue Obi-Wan ROTS is 80% of Sidious in (let's do it your way) "force powers only", Grievous gets pwned.

This isn't even ROTS Sidious either. OT Sidious had 24 years to study the force and devote a large portion of his life to the Dark Side.

Barely impressive? Kenobi won because he was a Soresu master. He was the person most suited to destroying Grievous, and whilst I'd agree that Vader kills him with the force, the 80% thing is unquantifiable and nonsensical to use in a debate.

The quote was mainly there to have the audience recognize that the Emperor was superior to Vader. For a long time people thought Palpatine only had a "mental" domination on Vader.

Vader wins, he would lay a beat down on Greivous in a lightsaber match, especially if he was using the force. By the time of Purge, Vader was confident enough to take on Kenobi, and then went on to kill a few Jedi, one of which used a cortosis blade against him. He only lost the upper hand because three Jedi were throwing crap at him.

By the OT Vader has perfected his style, isn't particularly slow, and would rip Greivous' metal arms out of their sockets.

Four Masters (two were council members) and two knights. Five. Plus he killed a few ARC's and the Jedi didn'
didn't have to get his ass saved by Clones.

Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
Vader is 80 % of the Emperor in FORCE POWER. In actual lightsaber comabt, he is slow and clunky, and would be destroyed by Grievous.

Lucas never specified Force Powers. Stop making up facts.

In the special features of RotS, Lucas does state that before being maimed, Vader was twice as powerfull as the Emperor, but lost a great deal of his power once he lost his arms and legs, so is almost as strong as the Emperor.

Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
Slow and clunky? He's a bit less agile, but Grievous is barely impressive in saber combat. It took Obi-Wan less than 30 seconds to cut one arm off
In the novelization of RotS, it clarifies the point that in his duel with Grievous, Obi-Wan allowed Grievous to overpower his defences so that he would in effect, sever his own limbs and lightsabers against Obi-Wan's blade. Had Obi-Wan tried to agressively strike at Grievous, the move would have been countered. Also, lets not forget that in RotS Grievous was damaged, and not operating at the full capacity that he was in Clone Wars where he was more than capable of standing up to the five Jedi, and for the purpose of this debate, it was said that Grievous' damage/injuries would be fixed, so that would mean he was once more operating at full capacity. Given how Vader's artificial limbs are an encumberence and something he has to force to move at a normal pace (as said in RoDV) it is fair to say that he would not be able to match Grievous' pace, and even if it was Vader 20 years later, he might have adapted to the new limbs, but 20 years is still going to have taken it's toll on him physically, and Luke was only able to beat him down by using the Dark Side, without it, Vader was still the superior fighter.

No.... Grievous was not "damaged". Just hours before ROTS as in Labyrinth of Evil he was still perfectly capable of kicking ass. But when the situation is that Grievous doesn't have the element of shock and surprise, his exotic nature tends to wear thin. Notice Mace almost beat the living shit out of him in Labyrinth of Evil even despite a shock and surprise assault.

But if a force choke to his organ sack somehow effects his nonorganic body's performance in a battle, that's news to me.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
No.... Grievous was not "damaged". Just hours before ROTS as in Labyrinth of Evil he was still perfectly capable of kicking ass. But when the situation is that Grievous doesn't have the element of shock and surprise, his exotic nature tends to wear thin. Notice Mace almost beat the living shit out of him in Labyrinth of Evil even despite a shock and surprise assault.

But if a force choke to his organ sack somehow effects his nonorganic body's performance in a battle, that's news to me.
Yes, Grievous was damaged. I've not read Labyrinth of Evil, but, in the final episode of the Clone Wars, (which lead directly into the events of RotS) Mace used a Force Choke against Grievous, and that is why he developed his cough. (This is also confirmed by the director in the special features). In RotS, Grievous was coughing almost constantly as a result of that attack, and his combat skills were suitably diminished as a result. In the episode of Clone Wars where he is fighting five Jedi, he is able to do so without having to split his arms and use all his sabers. He only does that in the final episode of Clone Wars because his primary hands where occupied, and it gave him a surprize advantage. In RotS however, he had to split his arms and use all his sabers just to face off against a single Jedi, so it is clear that the damage done by the Force Choke (in Clone Wars it was possible to see the chest plates buckling, which resulted in the cough) had also affected his fighting skills in some way.

Grievous is certainly exemplary under any circumstances - Count Dooku noted him as being particularly difficult to out-spar - but yes, he excels under the said conditions, when surprise and terror are on his side. I think I remember the thread where I first posted my original statement on this matter.

Originally posted by Darth Vious
Yes, Grievous was damaged. I've not read Labyrinth of Evil, but, in the final episode of the Clone Wars, Mace used a Force Choke against Grievous, and that is why he developed his cough. (This is also confirmed by the director in the special features). In RotS, Grievous was coughing almost constantly as a result of that attack, and his combat skills were suitably diminished as a result. In the episode of Clone Wars where is is fighting five Jedi, he is able to do so without having to split his arms and use all his sabers. He only does that in the final episode of Clone Wars because his primary hands where occupied, and it gave him a surprize advantage. In RotS however, he had to split his arms and use all his sabers just to face off against a single Jedi, so it is clear that the damage done by the Force Choke (resulting in the cough) had also affected his fighting skills in some way.

That would be contradicted by LoE, in which. . . a hell of a lot of things happen way differently.

Originally posted by Faunus
That would be contradicted by LoE, in which. . . a hell of a lot of things happen way differently.
LoE was an EU novel, the Clone Wars cartoons were canon 'bridging' stories. Even though I haven't read LoE so can't comment on something I don't know about, it is safe to say that in the 'scheme of things' Clone Wars supercedes it as a more official version of events.

No, it doesn't. Clone Wars cartoon is not more canon than LoE.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
No, it doesn't. Clone Wars cartoon is not more canon than LoE.
The fact that it was licenced and approved by Lucas means that yes, it is. Lucas couldn't give two shits what authors write in their novels as long as Luke doesn't get killed, and is always the strongest. He would have had quite an issue with the Clone Wars had it not lead directly into RotS (unless it allowed a gap for further events to unfold, which it did not) Again, I haven't read LoE, but I'd be willing to bet that it doesn't tie into the beginning of RotS as accurately as Clone Wars does.

That's funny, because your lack of knowledge on the topic undoes your point- Events in the cartoon's third season are BASED on LoE with only a few subtle changes. Since both the novelisation and the cartoon are approved by Lucasfilm and neither are actually parts of the original movies, they are on equal standings according to the EU policy. When two pieces of EU contradict, and ONE of them is based on the other (In this case, the cartoons are based on LoE), then the original wins out.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
That's funny, because your lack of knowledge on the topic undoes your point- Events in the cartoon's third season are BASED on LoE with only a few subtle changes. Since both the novelisation and the cartoon are approved by Lucasfilm and neither are actually parts of the original movies, they are on equal standings according to the EU policy. When two pieces of EU contradict, and ONE of them is based on the other (In this case, the cartoons are based on LoE), then the original wins out.
Third season? That's certainly news to me. When you say it's based off LoE, is this third season set during the original period covered by the Clone Wars, somehow crammed into the seconds between the end of Season Two and RotS, or does it follow on from RotS? Just because a 3rd season might be based on LoE (which I've heard nothing about, so I'm not exactly convinced by your arguement), that does not mean that the preceding seasons (which had nothing to do with LoE and link directly into RotS) are any less official, because although the novel may have inspired them to write some new episodes, in Star Wars, it has been soudly proven that any kind of moving pictures (be it movie or cartoon) always takes precedence over written material, so even if it is similar but with differences, that Clone Wars cartoons will always be considered more canon than a novel. I'm not getting into a debate over which is or is not more official, because that was not the point of the thread. Who do you think would be victorious in the battle mentioned?

Is there a third season?