Originally posted by spetznaz
First of all good work in going against my plan (and for that matter Batdude was correct in giving you an extra point for that).
There are some parts that are not quite correct (well, 'correct' since after all I am the one who is talking about solar genesis on earth!!!!!) and let me address them before I go to your plan.
First of all you said that Magneto would freeze.
Actually in my post I said that he would have extended one of his strongest fields beneath him in a semicircle, where Jean and Bobby would stand facing each other.
Magneto is outside this bubble, and thus when Bobby drops the temperature within the encapsulation to a level where no molecule is moving (0K) Magz is not within it but outside.
Thus he is not flash frozen.
Oh, sorry I must have misunderstood you.
Originally posted by spetznaz
The second thing you said was that Magneto would 'burn out' due to the forces generated if my plan works.
Now that is a very strong point, and this is why I thought that the only survivor would most likely be Superman (option one had Magneto surviving, but it would be a stretch for him to do so. Although if he did the powers that he would be wielding would make him into a walking singularity, and once you consider that there are mutants that wield ridiculous powers .....like Franklin for example .....or are taken over by fantastical beings with powers that should make them explode ....like Jean as the Phoenix ......then there is some history to act as a foundation of a human, IN COMICS, surviving this. LOL. IF this was a legal case I could make it stick ...trust me. There is sufficient preponderance of evidence to make this stick).
Yea, that could very easily be argued based on other examples. My point was only that nothing in his power set would explain him transcending his physical body (as opposed to Franklin who can manipulate reality and Jean who is connected to the fundamental creative force of the MU). I.e. if you turn the earth into a star he would still die from a lack of oxygen no matter how powerful he became.
Originally posted by spetznaz
Another point you made was that the speed at which Superman would be moving at would suck out all of the oxygen from his lungs.
This is another reason why Magneto MAY not survive this, and a very good reason at that.
However the VERY reason that would kill Magneto (Kal El moving at such high speeds that he creates a vacuum that not only extracts all the air out of Magneto but should also literally rip his body apart) is the same reason why my plan would work. When Superman is going at near-light speed, he'd only have to go around Magneto 2-4 times for it to work. He could even go far more times than that and he would still achieve the required effect. Now, Magneto will be dead, but the generation I am after will have occurred.
Thus even if Magneto goes my main plan (the Superman effect) still exists.
Fair enough.
Originally posted by spetznaz
The other point you made was the lack of sufficient hydrogen for my plan to work.
You are indeed correct .....to a point (as I shall explain).
Even though the Earth has a whole lot of hydrogen, most of it is untappable and even then it is locked away.
However my plan does not entail unlocking these reserves. It doesn't need to.
That is the reason why it had to get as hot as I intended it to ......at the temperatures listed funny things start to happen to the weak force, the strong force, the electromagnetic force, and gravity.
In the example I listed, at CERN in Geneva they managed to create temperatures that were present only a few fractions of a second after the creation of the universe, and when they did that they noticed the creation of 'W' and 'Z' particles that had the same precise principles as stated by Unified theory (as an aside if my plan works the above is what would make Magneto into a major threat ....anyways moving on).
Thus at this temperatures the strong force is behaving differently, and is much weaker. The only things they can hold together are a proton and a neutron.
No more complex atomic and molecule structures ....all that can be held together is a proton and a neutron in the nucleus, and that is equal to one thing: Hydrogen.
An entire planet of it.
Very interesting. Well my first question would be who on your team is a nuclear physicist? Such a think might be possible but how would your team know how to do it?
Also what would protect Superman from having his body affected by either the temperature (ie turn into hydrogen) or dieing from the massive explosion that would result from your plan, as we are talking about an explosion far greater than a nuclear bomb. From what I know of his bio-aura, the reason he is able to approach the sun is that as he gets closer his body absorbs more yellow sunlight. This increases the strength of his aura which in turn enables him to get even close in a loop-type effect. However, the aura can be overloaded with either high level energy or kinetic attacks and what you are proposing could safely be called both. His aura wouldn't have the time it needs to strengthen itself to the necessary level.
Originally posted by spetznaz
This brings me to the 900 pound gorilla in your counter-argument. Namely that even if all of the above works, there is not sufficient mass to ensure a yellow sun.
Now, that was a good one ....and apparently well researched since you included some Spectroscopy of stars. For instance you listed that at Earth mass, the only type of star that could be produced would be one that was red- (red-orange). Basically an 'M' star, and being a red star it would be as good to Superman as salt is to a slug.
Knockout blow?
Well, not really.
For one consider several things.
Such stars have various properties .....for one they are almost out of hydrogen (actually they are out of hydrogen), and they also have relatively 'cool' temperatures ('only' at 3000-6000 F).
My 'star' on the other hand will have 100% H, and its temperature will be several thousand trillion degrees.
Major difference.
Good point. So perhaps the composition and temperature of the Earth/star would wield greater influence over the type of star as opposed to mass? That is certainly possible (in the confines of this debate it may not be possible to know for sure either way).
If we assume that your plan would work, two problems still remain. One is that the Earth/star would still not have enough gravitational pull to hold itself together. The thermonuclear reaction would reach a point where the force it produces would exceed the ability of the planet to hold it's mass in. The second is that you are not starting your reaction at the core of the planet. So gravity (or any other force for that matter) would not be forcing hydrogen gas into your makeshift reactor to fuel it as it does in a star. The initial explosion would actually force hydrogen away from you instead of to you.
Originally posted by spetznaz
However I still have that monkey on my back ......how to deal with the lack of Mass.
No matter what I have, the lack of mass (even if all the above happens) will just mean that all I have is an immense globe of hydrogen that will explode like some huge bomb but have no other effect. While that might be enough to get rid of any team, it is not what I want.
What to do about the mass?
Well, simple (in comic books though ludicrous in real life).
Compress the stuff!
Have a look at the following gif (the GIF is in the bottom half of the page):
Bottle City of Kandor (go near the middle)
That is a picture of the miniature city of Kandor, which Superman keeps in a bottle in the Fortress of Solitude after it was shrunk by some villain.
Look above it ......that is a miniature red sun.
Look at its size.
Thus in comicdom some miniaturization is possible, and in my case it doesn't need to get anywhere near that small. Let's say the size of North America.
Although all that is moot, because at the temperatures that will be created once the whole process begins (not the 'sun' creation, but once Superman goes around Magneto several times) the opposing team (and all but one of my team) either dies or has to leave the planet.
According to the KMC rules, leaving a planet is an automatic loss. So they either stay and perish, or leave and lose.
You forgot to explain in there exactly how you are going to compress the mass of the Earth/star
. It might be possible but I don't think your team is up to matter manipulation (either being physically able to or knowing how) when all except Superman are going to die very shorty in your plan.
And the rules say that I can't leave the "field of combat". Going into space above the planet isn't leaving the field of combat as your team could easily follow and continue the fight thereby making it a field where we are engaged in combat
(it's not like my team would be trying to excape). Besides Hal would be able to easily protect my team if they decide to stay on the planet.