Dan Wallace considering coming to KMC:

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Lightsnake
During my email with my Dan, he said this: What material is being retconned? If it's a reference in Golden Age of the Sith to Marka Ragnos being the most powerful, that's not a contradiction. It just means he was the most powerful of that era.

If there's a message board or something where this conversation is taking place, let me know and I'd be happy to drop by.

He also mentioned that, in the Guide to characters, his statement over the Sith Empire being 25,000 years old was later retconned by LFL and the Hundred Year Darkness began in 7100 BBY

Would anyone object to him being invited?

hord06
Is he really coming? How will we know whether it is him? What's his e-mail.

Lightsnake
I'll check with him first, he said he's considering it. You can contact him through his blog at SW.com

Antediluvian
I feel some major pwnage coming on here.

zephiel7
This'll be interesting.

I will make Mr. Wallace see my way roll eyes (sarcastic)

Janus Marius
The author of NEC has the time to trade emails with you and consider coming to KMC? Or is this going to be a carefully constructed sock/best friend's account impersonating him? I don't trust this idea at all. I'm sure if Mister Dan Wallace wants to address canon issues, he can post it somewhere official, like SW.com. I still find it ridiculous that he has traded more than three emails with you in the past day and wants to now come to KMC. And considering how underhanded you've been in the past, I suspect this is another ploy by you to present Sidious as "teh uber".

Lightsnake
You know, other people on this site have emailed him and'd be more than happy to back me up, I'm certain. I really doubt he's working every second of the day, either. He's an extremely nice guy and takes time to answer most of the mail he gets.

And considering he doesn't have any projects on his plate right now...seriously, Janus, your skepticism is just reaching incredible boundaries. If you won't believe it's him anyways, email him through his blog, post on TFN, check with him on SW.com. Seriously, do you thinkI came back out of the blue, scanned this quote, found the quotes and links I did, convinced someone to fake email responses and then post a link to said email responses and am now preparing a Dan Wallace impersonator or taking nhis identity to come to this site? That'd get a nailing from a mod in a moment and I'm pretty sure it's illegal.

Janus Marius
If you're asking whether or not I trust you, I'd say no. You've been found to flat out lie when it suits your purpose anyways. The default position of receiving an unsubstantiated claim is skepticism. You come out of the blue, power spam every thread with "Sidious" or "Ragnos" in it, and based on one sentence from reference material proclaim Sidious the greatest thing since sliced bread. Yet I pointed out to you that Veitch and Anderson both signed off on TOTJ, and after DE, so that makes that claim irrelevant. Golden Age of the Sith Empire comes along and suddenly EU has even stronger Sith Lords. They're even stronger in context, as we've argued successfully before- they had more knowledge, more expertise, more raw force power and so on. You've gone with every single hyperbolic statement to support yourself, like when you claimed that Sidious knew every fighting style known and thousands of years of lore (Which is IMPOSSIBLE unless he were thousands of years old- he's not). Seriously... And again, Dan's not in a position to make that decision. He is not the author of DE or TOTJ- he's written a compilation. Nothing more. He cannot create canon, only parrot it.

Now, you are the one who poisoned the well for yourself last time you were here. Even now, people attack you on sight because of how you conducted yourself last time, with underhanded tactics and flat out lies in many cases. Suddenly you come back with friends and emails and the words of Dan "OMfg I maed teh compilashun" Wallace and it's binding? No. You need to PROVE that that's a real email, then PROVE that Dan Wallace suddenly has full rights and authority over the creator of the characters. Hell, at least you could do is get something from KJA himself- I'd at least accept that.

Lightsnake
Oh, you're taking IKC's word on the issue when I admitted I was mistaken on the issues. Would you say your side flat out lied when I asked for that 'God among Gods' quote.

And no, you haven't succesfully argued it before, Janus. You gave your opinion and interpretation. Veitch wasn't involved with Golden Age of the Sith. I've provided quotes from the damn SW material showing he DID learn said abilities and techniques and I don't see you complaining shooting lightning from your fingers or raising star ships with your mind is impossible, this is SW and the impossible happens every day.

And for the last damn time: Styles posted the email and a link to it. AND I PUT A LINK TO THE GODDAMN OFFICIAL SITE SAYING DIRECTLY the NEC was creating new canon and when pressed for information, you've failed completely to show a link that SBKs and compilations can't create canon when I've shown you everything proving they are on the same levels as books and comics.

And you know something, I'll be glad to find a way to contact KJA. If I get that email though, what're my assurances, even if I scan and post it you'll still try to tear it down like with this? This hasn't created canon, it clarified canon and went against your opinion so it's suddenly wrong. Want me to provide that link about C-canona nd to the SW site again? Hell, LFL had him change that 25,000 years to 7 thou thing. What part of 'Any author can retcon something with the backing of LFL only, creations do not belong to the authors." do you refuse to accept? Venificus told you that in another thread

Just emailed Mr. Anderson.

hord06
Hey lightsnake does pwned61 still go on these forums.

Antediluvian
One button, Lightsnake:

Prt Scrn/Sys Rq


That'll take a screenshot of the entire monitor screen and you can paste it in a simple program such as paint, save it, post it on Photobucket or Imageshack and throw IMG tags on it and show us.


It's that simple! Then you can prove yourself!

Revolver Ocelot
Got my response. Scan coming up soon. I'll make a new thread or post it here?

Lightsnake
here's fine. What'd he say?

Revolver Ocelot
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/4295/danwallace3kr.jpg


Interesting eh?

Lightsnake
Aha, so looks like I'll be waiting to see what Anderson says. Still, keep in mind though, if it's only his opinion, it's still in the source

Janus Marius
That's not really the point. The ball is in Anderson's court. I applaud Dan being honest in his email, and specifically getting at the source of the discrepancy here- yes, his opinion may be that Sidious is the better Sith Lord, and that's well and good, but for our purposes his opinion's not really gonna do it. I'd like to see Anderson make this final.

Lightsnake
Alright, well, sent him the email...I'll get SOME official word on this eventually

NineCoronas
Originally posted by Lightsnake
During my email with my Dan, he said this: What material is being retconned? If it's a reference in Golden Age of the Sith to Marka Ragnos being the most powerful, that's not a contradiction. It just means he was the most powerful of that era.

If there's a message board or something where this conversation is taking place, let me know and I'd be happy to drop by.

He also mentioned that, in the Guide to characters, his statement over the Sith Empire being 25,000 years old was later retconned by LFL and the Hundred Year Darkness began in 7100 BBY

Would anyone object to him being invited? You might wish to have him photograph himself with a picture saying "I am Dan Wallace and I am coming to KMC".

IKC
Originally posted by Janus Marius
If you're asking whether or not I trust you, I'd say no. You've been found to flat out lie when it suits your purpose anyways.

Now, you are the one who poisoned the well for yourself last time you were here. Even now, people attack you on sight because of how you conducted yourself last time, with underhanded tactics and flat out lies in many cases.

Haha, yes.

Mysterious Man
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Alright, well, sent him the email...I'll get SOME official word on this eventually Looks like your theory about Sids being the most powerful is at a standstill,,but neither is Ragno's is being stated as being the most powerful(except for TOTJ),so we're screwed until LFL says which one is more powerful.Man, EU is really f*cked up.

zephiel7
What I want, instead of just hearing "Palpatine is the strongest," is HOW he outpowers Ragnos. If they jus say "Palpatine is the strongest", then it is just plain bias.

Illustrious
Originally posted by zephiel7
What I want, instead of just hearing "Palpatine is the strongest," is HOW he outpowers Ragnos. If they jus say "Palpatine is the strongest", then it is just plain bias.

Indeed, I too would like to see this.

In the end though, the EU has enough discrepancy and is so broad, it does become an issue of judgment, instead of black and white.

Deception
Sidious never impressed me enough to be the Most Powerful of the Most Powerful, he seemed more of a Powerful Politician and a powerful force user, yes.

Well his Force Storm seems pretty unique, unless that technique also originated from the Ancient Sith, that might be the only way Sidious can defeat the Ancient Sith.

Lightsnake
I fail to see when or how the force originated from the Ancient Sith, Palpatine discusses how he discovered it himself...and he's gpt about a million very effective kills.

One could also turn that around, Illustrious, and ask how Ragnos overpowers Sidious. There's never been any true source saying he was the mightiest Sith of all time. Yes, he rulled the Ancient Sith empire for a century, but what do we know about him? What did he really DO? Naga felt he was a stagnant fool, but Naga clearly lacked any true political support until Gav and Jori arrived.

Can we really just say Ragnos is the best ever for some vague legends and hearsay? The Ancient Emprie never truly impressed me. We saw they had impressive amplifiers and weapons, too...but Simus's death, Dor Gal-Ram too...they didn't really have any excuse and we've seen...quite a bit of what they've done duplicated. In KJA's Young Jedi Knights series, we see the villain Brakiss toy with solar flares to teach Zekk, we see a Fallanasi create a fleet of ships out of illusions...

Captain REX
We also see me yawning as the EU becomes more and more ridiculous.

Jonathan Mark
Originally posted by Captain REX
We also see me yawning as the EU becomes more and more ridiculous.

Janus offically refused to admit that anything after the Thawn Trilogy ever happened...

Now that they have a Vong Sith Lord coming out in the Legacy Comics.

IKC
How is a definitive statement by an omniscient narrator a "vague legend" and "hearsay?" It's nice that the Ancient Sith didn't impress you. Fortunate that Star Wars canon does not hinge on whether or not it impresses Lightsnake Almighty, God of Unsupported Assumptions, Irrelevant Misdirections, and Secondary Sources.

Captain REX
Vong...Sith...Lord?!

How did we find THAT out? Because it's dreadful.

Revolver Ocelot
Yes. Anything Post JA / Pre Stark is sticky.

kingkman
The Pt era rules.

Revolver Ocelot
The PT sucked. Some of the EU was decent, but the whole era paled in comparison to the OT era.

kingkman
Metal gear solid sucks

Revolver Ocelot
Nah. MGS >>>> j00.

Janus Marius
j00? zomG teh rashuL!111

Lightsnake
Originally posted by IKC
How is a definitive statement by an omniscient narrator a "vague legend" and "hearsay?" It's nice that the Ancient Sith didn't impress you. Fortunate that Star Wars canon does not hinge on whether or not it impresses Lightsnake Almighty, God of Unsupported Assumptions, Irrelevant Misdirections, and Secondary Sources.

What ;definitive statement?' A comic summary? I'd like to see this god among gods comment, myself...just combed from GAotS and FotSE and there's nothing about Marka's so called supreme power. And apparently, Marka was the strongest of that era, 5000 years prior. Thankfully, nothing in the star wars canon hinges on IKC...thank the gods in fact. Now, what was this definitive statement? "Most powerful of the power" Over a thousand years before men like Kun are born? Or Sidious and the sith of the thousand year darkness? Dan's remark:

"What material is being retconned? If it's a reference in Golden Age of the Sith to Marka Ragnos being the most powerful, that's not a contradiction. It just means he was the most powerful of that era. "

IT may be his opinion, but that opinion is in print...kind of like Thrawn being one of the best tacticians who ever lived

IKC
Irrelevant misdirections, logical fallacy.

You claimed his power (and that of the Ancients) to be established through "vague legend" and "hearsay." That is bunk. Your post doesn't even address this (and doesn't address what I said about it).

Also you made the ridiculous comment in your post that nothing about the Ancient Sith impressed you, to which part of my reply was aimed. To phrase it another way, we don't care that it doesn't impress you. You're not the arbiter of "impressiveness."

Lightsnake
and neither are you judging what is impressive. Come on, now, where's that definitive statement applying to the entirety of Star Wars?

Janus Marius
Lightsnake, I thought we agreed no arguing until KJA settled this? Why are you still bickering over this?

IKC
Originally posted by Lightsnake
and neither are you judging what is impressive. Come on, now, where's that definitive statement applying to the entirety of Star Wars?

The:
Used before an absolute adjective: the best we can offer.

The most powerful of the most powerful. Two definite articles in the same sentence uttered by an omniscient narrator.

That's the very definition of definitive.

DiamondBullets
Originally posted by Jonathan Mark
Janus offically refused to admit that anything after the Thawn Trilogy ever happened...

Now that they have a Vong Sith Lord coming out in the Legacy Comics.

What the f**k? That's ridiculous for the fact that the Vong are invisible to the Force.

Lightsnake
Simple Janus: Because IKC won't drop it.

And IKC, it's been clarified that applied to five thousand years before Sidious was even born. Also, I have Dan on IM right now, I'll keep you guys posted

TheOnes2
Who's Dan Wallace?

danwall88
Hi guys,

First, thanks to Lightsnake for the invite. I wanted to clear up the "Palpatine is the most powerful Sith Lord in history" line I put into the NEC. Here's the facts on the issue:

1) Yes, I wrote that line, and in my opinion Palpatine is the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived. In my opinion he could beat Marka Ragnos in a fight.

2) It doesn't really matter what my opinion is. Lucasfilm approves all canon, not me, and there's plenty of wiggle-room in my statement where you can go one way or another. For example, if Lucasfilm later publishes a story in which Marka Ragnos's ghost kicks the ass of Palpatine ghost, I'd happily accept one of the following explanations:

a) As it turns out, Palpatine was only the "most powerful" when it came to political maneuvering, not ghost-ass-kicking

b) As it turns out, the in-universe author of the NEC (Voren Na'al, if you're a geek like me) was injecting a bit of bias into his text when he came up with that whole "most powerful" line

c) The "Any Given Sunday" rule.

I don't think Lucasfilm is ever going to publish "power charts" or something like that indicating who could beat who, because such things are dependent on the rules of story. It's like arguing who would win -- Batman or Superman? I could happily argue that point all day long (the answer is Superman, by the way), but it's just imaginary arguing. There's no right answer, because the winner in any matchup between the two characters will always be determined by the writer of that story.

Dan

Janus Marius
Supes would destroy Batman, I agree there.

Well, we can kinda compare ghost ass kicking skills.

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/3815/ragnosrule5sd4oa.jpg

Here he's so powerful he made both Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh search for their contact lenses.

henniestevens
thx Dan that was the aswer every1 was waiting for smile

Admiral Akbar
lol

Lightsnake
I wouldn't say 'powerful'...'revered' is another story. Kressh's devotion was just scary while Naga just did it for show

Janus Marius
Originally posted by Lightsnake
I wouldn't say 'powerful'...'revered' is another story. Kressh's devotion was just scary while Naga just did it for show

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8846/oldrepublic03180gj.jpg

Really, I don't see Naga Sadow back talking Ragnos in this case. Certainly, he isn't ignoring the spectre. And Kressh seems to think that Ragnos could crush Sadow if he would. A spectre literally destroy someone on Sadow's level.

Lightsnake
Kressh is a sycophant and Naga's certainly being pretty fresh with Ragnos...I wouldn't think Ragnos would allow Naga to back talk him life that or get away with ruining the empire...or say things like "It takes more than the pronouncement of a ghost etc etc."

Janus Marius
Yeah, I guess Sadow and Ludo bowed before a ghost that had no power over them at all.

And this is amusing, considering that with just one of Sadow's amulets, an inexperienced Exar Kun could destroy Freedan Nadd's ghost, but two sith lords couldn't hope to do the same to Ragnos.

But I'm sure if this was Sidious and not Ragnos, you'd be agreeing with me. Let's face it, Lightsnake- you have a love for Sidious that won't quit.

Ushgarak
Right then, folks, that sorts that out. Nothing is 100% nailed down, so it all down to opinion. No-one can actually claim to be definitvely correct when it comes to EU continuity, instead people can only have reached a conclusion based on factors which are open to interpretation.

Thanks, Dan.

Lightsnake
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Yeah, I guess Sadow and Ludo bowed before a ghost that had no power over them at all.

And this is amusing, considering that with just one of Sadow's amulets, an inexperienced Exar Kun could destroy Freedan Nadd's ghost, but two sith lords couldn't hope to do the same to Ragnos.

But I'm sure if this was Sidious and not Ragnos, you'd be agreeing with me. Let's face it, Lightsnake- you have a love for Sidious that won't quit.

Because Nadd was a member of the Ancient Sith and why Ragnos's ghost was capable of destroying Jaden Korr...once more, Naga's giving Ragnos a lot of lip and going against his direct orders.

Ushgarak
These are points better argued in other threads.

Illustrious
Thanks for clarifying Dan, glad to see that you've come and sorted out the babble.



Honestly, I don't think this is a good example. Without plot-induced stupidity, I can't see Batman beating Superman, especially if he doesn't walk around with Kryptonite wink.

So basically you're saying the entire issue has room for interpretation, and there is one one way to the matter, correct? I personally like this view better, as I don't feel single lines in narration without any logical support or on-panel evidence should be binding.

Lightsnake
Originally posted by Illustrious
Thanks for clarifying Dan, glad to see that you've come and sorted out the babble.



Honestly, I don't think this is a good example. Without plot-induced stupidity, I can't see Batman beating Superman, especially if he doesn't walk around with Kryptonite wink.

So basically you're saying the entire issue has room for interpretation, and there is one one way to the matter, correct? I personally like this view better, as I don't feel single lines in narration without any logical support or on-panel evidence should be binding.

Agreed. Also Batman is ALWAYS prepared....that damn utility belt

Revolver Ocelot
Too many Batman PIS nowadays. We have his "super brain" inventing cheap ways to take down cosmic beings... I think it's ridiculous. Hell, one time Batman made a freaking portal to a planet with a Red Sun, lured Superman there, and kicked his ass.

The hell? What happened to Batman detecting a good murder mystery... or bringing down a Mafia chain in Gotham.

Janus Marius
Fanboys. They're the reason why Wolverine could beat Galactus.

general-pain
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Fanboys. They're the reason why Wolverine could beat Galactus.


Quoted for ******* truth

danwall88
Originally posted by Illustrious
Honestly, I don't think this is a good example. Without plot-induced stupidity, I can't see Batman beating Superman, especially if he doesn't walk around with Kryptonite wink
Don't tell Frank Miller.

Dan

zephiel7
Thanks Dan, things make sense now stick out tongue

Captain REX
They do, actually, Zeph. *thwap*

Thanks for the insight, Dan. smile

Faunus
Yes, thank you.

Belegūr
Originally posted by danwall88
Don't tell Frank Miller.

Dan

laughing out loud

DarthMaul9123
i shouldnt say anything...WHo the hell is dan wallace

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