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SO who wins
dicuss

Mary Marvel....

A lot of that would depend on what Ol' Billy's up to. If he's Captain Marvel during this fight, then Mary's got no shot. However if he's not, I'd still give Supergirl an edge, either 6-7/10.

Originally posted by superman41082
A lot of that would depend on what Ol' Billy's up to. If he's Captain Marvel during this fight, then Mary's got no shot. However if he's not, I'd still give Supergirl an edge, either 6-7/10.

You over-rate supergirl , a single blast of SHAZAM and she goes down.

Mary Marvel

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/7/74/Supergirl-68.jpg

I heard that the power sharing is not there anymore. They all have about the same, plus Mary is way too smart for Supergirl

Originally posted by Milkie
Mary Marvel

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/7/74/Supergirl-68.jpg

I heard that the power sharing is not there anymore. They all have about the same, plus Mary is way too smart for Supergirl

I agree she's smarter, but the thing that would be difficult for Mary would be Supergirl's speed. I'm also just assuming that Supergirl's not 19 here, and about 24ish. By this time Supergirl would wisen up. Mary's fast, but I see Supergirl as much faster.

Am I wrong in that????

Yup , typically the marvels are on the same level as their super-counterparts in most of their stat's .

I hope you guys realize Supergirl beat Mary's ass in that issue. Then she beat Freddy's ass when he showed up. Linda was a much weaker Supergirl than Kara to boot.

Quite frankly, Mary is screwed.

Originally posted by superman41082
I agree she's smarter, but the thing that would be difficult for Mary would be Supergirl's speed. I'm also just assuming that Supergirl's not 19 here, and about 24ish. By this time Supergirl would wisen up. Mary's fast, but I see Supergirl as much faster.

Am I wrong in that????

Supergirl being 24 does in no way shape or form compare to Minerva (The goddess of wisdom) Her Super-Speed is just as good as Supergirl's

Originally posted by Validus
I hope you guys realize Supergirl beat Mary's ass in that issue. Then she beat Freddy's ass when he showed up. Linda was a much weaker Supergirl than Kara to boot.

Quite frankly, Mary is screwed.


NO!

These days. She will Win.

Originally posted by Validus
I hope you guys realize Supergirl beat Mary's ass in that issue. Then she beat Freddy's ass when he showed up. Linda was a much weaker Supergirl than Kara to boot.

Quite frankly, Mary is screwed.

I know that Captain Marvel is fast, but I've always been under that impression that Superman is significantly faster. I didn't see CM being able to go near 99% speed of light. I assumed the same went for Mary and Kara.

Ok, so just how fast is the speed of Mercury????? Anyone have a link or something???

If they really are as fast as the Kryptonians, then I would give it to Mary proooooolly 8/10, but can someone show me a link?

Originally posted by Milkie
Supergirl being 24 does in no way shape or form compare to Minerva (The goddess of wisdom) Her Super-Speed is just as good as Supergirl's

So wait wait. Are you guys also going to tell me Captain Marvel beats Superman??????

Originally posted by Milkie
NO!

These days. She will Win.
How? Linda Danvers choked her out and put her in a hospital bed. What hope does she have against Kara, a girl who we know is in the top tier?

Originally posted by Validus
How? Linda Danvers choked her out and put her in a hospital bed. What hope does she have against Kara, a girl who we know is in the top tier?

She has a Gundam

Originally posted by superman41082
So wait wait. Are you guys also going to tell me Captain Marvel beats Superman??????

Yes. He can and has

I've just researched and found, like I thought, the Marvel's can only move at supersonic speeds. That means faster than the speed of sound which is 761 mph. Now if it was much closer to the speed of light, as in Superman's case, then they would have used another word it seems like. Now I don't see Kara being nearly as fast as Clark, but I see her being at least 1/4 of Superman's everything. This would be considerably faster than supersonic speed.

Can someone please give me a link, because I would really like to know.......

Originally posted by superman41082
I know that Captain Marvel is fast, but I've always been under that impression that Superman is significantly faster. I didn't see CM being able to go near 99% speed of light. I assumed the same went for Mary and Kara.

Ok, so just how fast is the speed of Mercury????? Anyone have a link or something???

If they really are as fast as the Kryptonians, then I would give it to Mary proooooolly 8/10, but can someone show me a link?

Black Adam was able to keep up with Jay Garrick and Jay had to borrow Adams speed in order to get to light speed. Adam and Billy are about the same in speed

Originally posted by Milkie
Yes. He can and has

Booooooooooo........... Supes takes him down!!!!!! Any time that he "has" are circumstantial, and were definately not in the realm of a clear victory. Supes dominates CM...... and from what I'm reading, Supergirl dominates Mary....

Originally posted by superman41082
I've just researched and found, like I thought, the Marvel's can only move at supersonic speeds. That means faster than the speed of sound which is 761 mph. Now if it was much closer to the speed of light, as in Superman's case, then they would have used another word it seems like. Now I don't see Kara being nearly as fast as Clark, but I see her being at least 1/4 of Superman's everything. This would be considerably faster than supersonic speed.

Can someone please give me a link, because I would really like to know.......

http://themot.org/gallery/d/1992-1/Incorrect.jpg

Originally posted by superman41082
Booooooooooo........... Supes takes him down!!!!!! Any time that he "has" are circumstantial, and were definately not in the realm of a clear victory. Supes dominates CM...... and from what I'm reading, Supergirl dominates Mary....

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1124/billyvsclarki5vr.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3572/billyvsclarkii2hl.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2906/billyvsclarkiii6tc.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5811/billyvsclarkiv7le.jpg

Originally posted by Milkie
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1124/billyvsclarki5vr.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3572/billyvsclarkii2hl.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2906/billyvsclarkiii6tc.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5811/billyvsclarkiv7le.jpg
'
Wow, thank you. You have just shown me a fight that was broken up by a giant green hand.

Originally posted by superman41082
I've just researched and found, like I thought, the Marvel's can only move at supersonic speeds. That means faster than the speed of sound which is 761 mph. Now if it was much closer to the speed of light, as in Superman's case, then they would have used another word it seems like. Now I don't see Kara being nearly as fast as Clark, but I see her being at least 1/4 of Superman's everything. This would be considerably faster than supersonic speed.

Can someone please give me a link, because I would really like to know.......
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t390886.html

Kara is way more than 1/4 Clark. Her strength is at least Wonder Woman level. Speed is around 99% of light. She's probably 90% of Superman's typical non-uber jobber aura enhanced showings.

Originally posted by superman41082
'
Wow, thank you. You have just shown me a fight that was broken up by a giant green hand.

Superman is on the ground stunned. That was the end of him.

Originally posted by Validus
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t390886.html

Kara is way more than 1/4 Clark. Her strength is at least Wonder Woman level. Speed is around 99% of light. She's probably 90% of Superman's typical non-uber jobber aura enhanced showings.

That's why I said, "at least 1/4 of Clark's everything". What I'm saying is, she's much faster than 'supersonic', which is what I keep reading is the Marvel family's speed.

The Marvel Family is also way faster then Supersonic where did you get that info.

Originally posted by Milkie
Superman is on the ground stunned. That was the end of him.

No..... you obviously don't know anything about Superman. Whan he gets knocked down, he stands up even harder. If they ever had CM get the best of Supes, it would just be a flat out mistake. I don't care what some idiot writers opinions are. Superman is Superman, and Captain Marvel would be levels below, despite being ridiculously powerful himself.

Originally posted by superman41082
That's why I said, "at least 1/4 of Clark's everything". What I'm saying is, she's much faster than 'supersonic', which is what I keep reading is the Marvel family's speed.
They are much faster than that. Captain Marvel once moved so fast Flash was wondering if he was tapping the speed force. Superman has said he moves like lightning.

Mary is fast enough to keep up but she isn't strong enough to keep from getting her skull crushed.

Originally posted by Validus
They are much faster than that. Captain Marvel once moved so fast Flash was wondering if he was tapping the speed force. Superman has said he moves like lightning.

Mary is fast enough to keep up but she isn't strong enough to keep from getting her skull crushed.

Ok, I buy that. I'm not saying that you guys are lying, but I'd just like to read that for myself. No where have I found that it says he can go that fast. 'Supersonic' is what I keep reading, which is pittiably insufficient in comparison to the Kryptonians.

Originally posted by superman41082
No..... you obviously don't know anything about Superman. Whan he gets knocked down, he stands up even harder. If they ever had CM get the best of Supes, it would just be a flat out mistake. I don't care what some idiot writers opinions are. Superman is Superman, and Captain Marvel would be levels below, despite being ridiculously powerful himself.

STFU Superman is a jackass

Black Adam was about to hand him his Kryptonian Ass

Originally posted by superman41082
Ok, I buy that. I'm not saying that you guys are lying, but I'd just like to read that for myself. No where have I found that it says he can go that fast. 'Supersonic' is what I keep reading, which is pittiably insufficient in comparison to the Kryptonians.
Well here is Cap matching Flash who says he's staying just shy of light speed.
http://img109.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=e35b8_capflash1.jpg
http://img140.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=a8c37_capflash2.jpg

Black Adam and Jay moving like lightning
http://img106.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=13d5c_justice7.jpg

Originally posted by Milkie
STFU Superman is a jackass

Black Adam was about to hand him his Kryptonian Ass

Dude, don't be a jerk! Without Superman, there probably wouldn't even be this forum, and there definately would be no Captain or Mary Marvel. Supes started it all, and he's the quentessential hero. Don't be a jerk!!!

Originally posted by Validus
Well here is Cap matching Flash who says he's staying just shy of light speed.
http://img109.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=e35b8_capflash1.jpg
http://img140.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=a8c37_capflash2.jpg

Black Adam and Jay moving like lightning
http://img106.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=13d5c_justice7.jpg

Ok sure, but that's only one writer's opinion. I see your point though.

Originally posted by superman41082
Ok sure, but that's only one writer's opinion. I see your point though.
Two writers actually, one of them an editor for the entire company and they're certainly more valuable than a fan made handbook site.

Where did you get that supersonic thing anyway?

Originally posted by superman41082
Dude, don't be a jerk! Without Superman, there probably wouldn't even be this forum, and there definately would be no Captain or Mary Marvel. Supes started it all, and he's the quentessential hero. Don't be a jerk!!!

Stop Crying
http://gifdepot.com/albums/GIFsAthruL/jackclowncry.gif

Originally posted by Milkie
Stop Crying
http://gifdepot.com/albums/GIFsAthruL/jackclowncry.gif

The clowns pretty funny, but I still don't see the need to piss all over Superman like that. The Superman franchise deserves any comic fans respect. Anyways, I don't care if you want to be a jerk.....

Validus, wiki said that, and a few other random things that I've been checking out on the internet under yahoo. Just looked up Captain Marvel's speed.

Screw Superman hes not getting my respect. Captain Marvel outsold him until DC started to get jealous and sued.

Not cause they were jealous, because it's a cop......... And so what if he outsold him for a while. Something will be the new in thing for a while, and then it'll go out. Supes beats CM in the end every time.........

Whatever

Your a Superman Fanboy in the end

Originally posted by superman41082
Not cause they were jealous, because it's a cop......... And so what if he outsold him for a while. Something will be the new in thing for a while, and then it'll go out. Supes beats CM in the end every time.........

LOL or probably not, just because you have respect for a comic character that CERTAINLY doesn't mean everyone has to as well. Seriously get over it, BA wasn't getting stopped by SM either.

As far as Marvel girl and Supergirl whatever, at least Supergirl doesn't wear a frumpy costume lol.

Originally posted by Soleran
LOL or probably not, just because you have respect for a comic character that CERTAINLY doesn't mean everyone has to as well. Seriously get over it, BA wasn't getting stopped by SM either.

As far as Marvel girl and Supergirl whatever, at least Supergirl doesn't wear a frumpy costume lol.

Yeah but Kara looks like a whore , and Sup41 stop with the Superman fanboyism it's annoying and makes you look like an idiot. Supes can and has been defeated by captain marvel before .

Originally posted by grey fox
Yeah but Kara looks like a whore , and Sup41 stop with the Superman fanboyism it's annoying and makes you look like an idiot. Supes can and has been defeated by captain marvel before .

I'm not being a fanboy. I realize that there are people that can beat Superman, and I actually like that. However, I really don't see Captain Marvel beating him. I just don't see CM as being that fast, or resourceful enough to do so......... And back in the 40's, CM was a cop of Superman. They could have made a character with any powers, but they chose to have him basically the same way as Superman.........

Also, I was not the one who started this. Someone told me to STFU and that Superman was a gay character, which is ridiculous. I love lots of characters, and Superman is my favorite for all that he represents. If you think he's stupid, then you should look at more than just the powers........... I'm not being a fanboy just because I honestly don't think Captain Marvel can beat Supes...........

Oh yeah, and just so you know, I do think Captain Marvel is a pretty cool character. A young good-hearted kid with the power of the gods is intriguing, but I objectively don't think he could beat Superman.

Mary Marvel should win. She has the exact same power as Captain Marvel, whereas Supergirl is less powerful than Superman.

Superman41082 - I appreciate the fact that you really love Superman - I love him just as much, he's easily my favourite superhero.

But please do a bit more research than simply looking on the net - you'll earn more respect if you quote actual comic events rather than speculation or fanfic from the net.

-----------

In one of my Supes comics from the 70's, Marvel is hypnotised into being a criminal.

In order to stop him, Supes get him in a neck lock from behind.

Marvel struggles with all his might, but Superman says:

"Struggle all you like - it won't do you any good. If either one of us is stronger than the other, it's by such a tiny degree as to be immeasurable."

------------

The Marvels are as strong and fast as Kryptonians.

They are NOT as Durable, as Kryptonians are inherently invulnerable...

BUT - in a fight AGAINST a Kryptonian, the Marvels are more than a match for durability because the Marvel families magically derived powers enable them to:

A) Recieve less damage from a Kryptonians attacks - Kryptonians punches have much less effect on a magically imbued being.

B) Deal more damage to a Kryptonian - as a Kryptonian's invulnerability is negated to an extent by magical fields.

-----------------

The above reason outlined explains why people such as Wonder Woman, Thor, Captain Marvel and other Magically Imbued warriors, are able to both recieve less damage from Superman (where a normal person would be pulped by one punch)and deal physical damage to him (whereas to most things he is invulnerable).

Superman has more feats at his disposable. He is arguably - in fact most POSSIBLY - faster, stronger and more durable than anyone I named above.

But in a physical fight, the fighting skill and magical nature of each of the people above named makes each of them a worthy match for Supes in a fight.

-------------

In a brawl, a Captain Marvel vs Superman fight should always be about 5/10 if both are going all out.

Following the same logic, Mary Marvel vs Supergirl (who are both very nearly as powerful as their male relations), should be about the same.

Therefore a pitched battle between these two - with each being in full control and realisation of their powers - should result in BOTH combatants being utterly exhausted and battered, with the luck of the day determining which young lady falls to the ground unconcious first.

------------------

Peace.

I sure liked your post, Zephro. No there's no need for me to do a gigantic post.

JohnR, does thinking that Superman beats Captain Marvel make you a fanboy? I was only commenting on someone's claim that Superman is a jackass, which is bologna. If you guys want to think I'm a fanboy, go ahead. I'm not going to let it bother me. Anyways, my unbias thoughts are that Superman would take CM every time, not that that's even an important issue. If Superman were less powerful than CM, I would think that CM would win. It doesn't do something for me to think that Superman would win. In my mind, it's just a fact because he's more powerful.

Originally posted by Tshern
I sure liked your post, Zephro. No there's no need for me to do a gigantic post.

Cheers mate.

Just my two pence.

I'm a fan of Big Blue and the Cheese. I don't like to see either being disrespected lol.

Zephro, I like your post. Just so you know where I'm coming from, while I think most comics are stupid now and don't read much of them anymore, I used to be addicted. My posts are a culmination of an entire childhood of reading comics and discussing them with my friends, so I'm not completely lost in this arena. Also, I still frequent the comic joint to get Superman paperbacks to keep up. We've thought about this long and hard, and we all agree that Supes is just too much for CM, despite the magic factor, and arguably, because of it. I'll explain.

Say for argument sake, they're equal in speed. It looks like Supes is in trouble because of the magic factor, but there's something else to consider. While magic disrupts his normal abilities, there's always a point in big fights where Supes will cut-loose. Many writers think that Superman has a mental block on his powers because of his "mild-manner", which makes more than perfect sense. It's hard to believe that a being as powerful as him, who has regular contact with mere mortal humans every day, wouldn't develop an extremely careful personality, which could mentally have an effect on his powers, like in Spiderman 2. Superman is not a Wolverine or a Hulk who is always locked and loaded, but at a certain point, when his adrenalin goes up, and there are no people he has to worry about hurting, he will be. Basically, when you know what hits the fan, Superman is at his best. Against someone like CM, especially because of the Magic factor, Superman, at a point, would stop holding back. In this fight, you'd see a better Superman than you normally would. When he cuts loose like this, he takes in more radiation(like when you see him get mad and his eyes light up), and makes use of an exponentially greater amount of the power he already has, which would dwindle his vulnerability to magic, along with increasing his invulnerability. Also, there's no quit in Supes.

We also have to look at the circumstances. I don't see Clark or Billy putting anyone in danger, and a fight between these two would endanger lots of people. When I think about these 2 fighting, I have to assume it's completely mindless, because otherwise, it wouldn't make sense. A mindless Superman is too much for CM.

The kryptonians invincibility isn't 'negated to an extent' it's ignored. Thats why Mary wins. Magic treats Kryptonians the same way it treats humans. And if a lightening bolt hit's a human then the human will most certainly die.

I still think superman41082 is overatting these Aliens. It doesn't matter how angry he is Magic will STILL be an achilles heel for him. Did you read that when Captain Marvel went up against Superman possessed by Eclipso? If it was not for Eclipso and Spectre, Superman would probably be dead.

Originally posted by grey fox
The kryptonians invincibility isn't 'negated to an extent' it's ignored. Thats why Mary wins. Magic treats Kryptonians the same way it treats humans. And if a lightening bolt hit's a human then the human will most certainly die.

It's not ignored by any sense of the word.

If it was, then Captain Marvel - who could crack a planet in half with his punches - would splatter Superman in one punch. Ignored is far too extreme a word.

The punches will have the same effect that a punch from a normal person would have on another normal person. For both of them.

And Supes has been hit by Marvel's magic lightning more than once before - it makes him bleed from the ears, but it doesn't take him down straight outright.

-------------

And as for Superman41082:

Yes, Superman is IMMEMSELY powerful when he cuts loose. But also, when he cuts loose he has less control over his powers - remember, he went absolutely beserk against Wonder Woman when Max took him over, but she still held her own amazingly well.

Superman IS more powerful than Captain Marvel. He has way more feats of strength, speed etc etc and so forth.

But in a fight between the two, they are equal.

This has been shown time and time and time again in the comics.

--------

It's just one of those facts that people don't seem to want to accept. Just because it's Superman, people think it's automatically DC's inherent bias towards him that means he is so powerful in various matchups.

He has been shown MULTIPLE times to be on equal fighting with Captain Marvel in a fight. It's not Marvel jobbing to make Supes look good, it's the fact that they are an equal match.

Likewise with the Flash races - I have EVERY Flash/Superman race. In each one, Flash is given equal coverage and respect as Superman. They're not Superman biased in the stories, so it's NOT Flash jobbing when Superman is only a few steps behind at the end of the races.

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Kara Zor-el and Mary Marvel would beat the living daylights out of eachother.

I think that Mary's greater experience and the wisdom of Solomon would win out over Kara's zealousness, giving Mary perhaps a 6/10 win.

It seems that on this thread, people are backing up their opinion with Supes and CM. I know that they are supposed equals, but would that equality continue in MM and SG?

I should imagine so, mate, as basically they're just scaled down versions of the same lol.

If anything though, Kara has shown herself to possess speed and power even greater than some of Superman's feats!

But like I said, wisdom of Solomon, plus Mary's experience takes the slight majority I think.

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
I should imagine so, mate, as basically they're just scaled down versions of the same lol.

If anything though, Kara has shown herself to possess speed and power even greater than some of Superman's feats!

But like I said, wisdom of Solomon, plus Mary's experience takes the slight majority I think.
That seems fair.

Originally posted by superman41082
JohnR, does thinking that Superman beats Captain Marvel make you a fanboy? I was only commenting on someone's claim that Superman is a jackass, which is bologna. If you guys want to think I'm a fanboy, go ahead. I'm not going to let it bother me. Anyways, my unbias thoughts are that Superman would take CM every time, not that that's even an important issue. If Superman were less powerful than CM, I would think that CM would win. It doesn't do something for me to think that Superman would win. In my mind, it's just a fact because he's more powerful.

You have my post confused with someone else's. This was my post:

Originally posted by JohnR
Mary Marvel should win. She has the exact same power as Captain Marvel, whereas Supergirl is less powerful than Superman.

I've read a few of their fights, and I've never seen Captain Marvel coclusively win. He has had the upper hand at times, but has never just put Superman down, which is damn hard. In a knock-down-drag-out fight, that goes until one of them is down and out, Superman will come out on top 10/10. Supes cutting loose will be too much for Captain Marvel. The effect that his magic has will become less and less a factor as the fight progresses. Just think about how the fight would ensue logically. Superman would end up on top, even if Cap would beat him up for most of it.

I'm assuming we're not judging like a Karate Kid point system, which could be an entirely different story. Pending on what you consider winning the fight, it could go either way, but in a fight is one where neither will back down until one is down and out, Supes takes it.

Dude just chill. This isn't even a Superman vs Captain Marvel thread.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Dude just chill. This isn't even a Superman vs Captain Marvel thread.

It kind of turned into one, and I'm not the one calling characters names or calling people fanboys. I think all this childish name-calling was unwarranted.

Superman41082, the whole problem with your "when superman stops holding back, Marvel goes down10/10" thing is that both characters hold back alot of their power. That goes without saying. So when Superman lets it all hang out, i guarantee you that Marvel will as well. Superman isn't the first hero to show restraint. Its flawed thinking to believe so. Anyways, i've never seen teams job to Mary as they do to Kara, so that combined with her own powerful powerset, should get he at least 5.5/10.

To Zephro, i will call the j word as i see it, but you're right. Superman/flash races aren't jobbing. Thats the thing about DC that gets me. Superman would still be super to me if he was the most well rounded hero character in DC, rather than the most powerful one. Rather than maxing all his stats out in comparison, give him the most balanced statpage. Flash CAN"T be the fastest in DC by a large margin for some reason. And i can't see how superman didn't cease to exist long ago. When going the speed of light, objects lose all their mass. The flash's are protected by the speedforce. Superman has no such protection, unless Barry Allen hit him with lighting as well.
And the difference in the jobbing of Wolverine and Superman is simple.
Wolverine still loses when he should. He may get a outrageous feat in before he goes down, but he will go down. Superman beats those who job to him. It wouldn't be AS bad if he put in a good showing and still lost. When he beat Dominus, jobbing. Darkseid jobbing. Manhunter? Jobbing. Gog??jobbing. Imperiex? Jobbing. If wolverine was switched in the place of Clark, he would've have lost. Thats what makes Wolverines aura slightly more digestable. Off topic as hell, but its been on my mind.

In response to Uni when he said that Cap would cut loose, too. This will be my last post on this thread, because I'm not seeing the help that this discussion is bringing. We all know that Cap Marvel will do the same, but it won't be the same. Cap Marvel gets to be a little boy most of the time, and doesn't have to worry about sneezing too hard and knocking someon out. When he's needed, he goes into battle, and usually gets to release as much tension as he needs to, while Supes keeps himself cooped up all year until there's a need for him to cut loose. Captain Marvel doesn't hold back like Supes, and while he would be more powerful, it would be nothing like when Supes cuts loose. I'm sure that we see Cap near the top of his game most of the time, and we rarely ever see Supes. With both of them cutting loose, Supes will still be significantly more powerful than Cap and has an edge, simply because he's Superman. He's more resourceful, more powerful, and his vulnerability to magic will become almost a nill factor............

Alright i'm done. But lemme say this. Everything you just said about Captain Marvel being not as dangerous not holding back as superman is pure speculation thats not backed up anywhere in comics. Its opinion, and while valid on this forum, it has no standing in comics. The only thing Superman has on Marvel is energy projection, ie heat vision. The fact that you validate your opinions by saying" simply because he's superman" tells me everything. I won't say fanboy, but blind to all other reasoning would fit the bill.
And for the record, we hardly EVER see Cap Marvel cut loose. Count all the times in the past decade, we've seen stories where Superman is bloodlusted in comparison to cap and a sentence in your post is rendered false. Truth.
And lastly. Supermans vulnerability to magic doesn't exist. His aura, which grants him his invulnerability is bypassed by it. It makes sense imo, seeing as how he comes from a planet dominant in science. Magic confusing and disrupting those with the analytical view of the world that science often gives makes perfect sense.
Magic simply hits his natural flesh. No aura to guard against it. He isn't rendered vulnerable by it, but normal. Thats why they say it affects him as it does us. No solar intake will guard him against that. Its ingrained in the genes that make such solar intake possible. There goes your "and his vulnerability to magic will become almost a nill factor............ " theory. Read more comics.

Alright i'm done. But lemme say this. Everything you just said about Captain Marvel being not as dangerous not holding back as superman is pure speculation thats not backed up anywhere in comics. Its opinion, and while valid on this forum, it has no standing in comics. The only thing Superman has on Marvel is energy projection, ie heat vision. The fact that you validate your opinions by saying" simply because he's superman" tells me everything. I won't say fanboy, but blind to all other reasoning would fit the bill.
And for the record, we hardly EVER see Cap Marvel cut loose. Count all the times in the past decade, we've seen stories where Superman is bloodlusted in comparison to cap and a sentence in your post is rendered false. Truth.
And lastly. Supermans vulnerability to magic doesn't exist. His aura, which grants him his invulnerability is bypassed by it. It makes sense imo, seeing as how he comes from a planet dominant in science. Magic confusing and disrupting those with the analytical view of the world that science often gives makes perfect sense.
Magic simply hits his natural flesh. No aura to guard against it. He isn't rendered vulnerable by it, but normal. Thats why they say it affects him as it does us. No solar intake will guard him against that. Its ingrained in the genes that make such solar intake possible. There goes your "and his vulnerability to magic will become almost a nill factor............ " theory. Read more comics.

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Errrrrrrrr. Ok, one more. Normal for Superman is vulnerable, because he is otherwise invulnerable. It's a weakness if you're going to argue semantics. Secondly, we don't see Marvel cut loose because he's not in as many stories as Supes. The reason Superman always seems to win, are because of my points that I have listed, and they are not 'pure' speculation. Many writers believe this to be true, and it makes absolutely perfect sense to me. Also, Superman's aura is not all that makes him invulnerable. He's got tough skin, a more dense body, and a million other things that we don't know about. Another thing is, that even when Supes gets hurt, he heals superfast, and Cap's doesn't. I'm not being blind to anything. I really don't care if Superman would win or not. I wouldn't think differently one way or the other, and the only reason that I'm responding is because you think that somewhere you earned the right to just criticize other people's thoughts just because it's new information to you. I'll let you know that I'm a huuuuuuuuuuuuge Superman fan, and this is all stuff that I have read in interviews and whatnot, and what I'm saying here is just me adding it all up. If I felt like aquiring your sense of self-righteousness, I'd criticize pretty much everything anyone said that I hadn't heard. If you post something else about how much of a genius you are, and how full of crap I am, I'm not reading it.

He's just Stubborn. I'm no longer going to try to prove anything to him. Let him be.

Originally posted by Milkie
He's just Stubborn. I'm no longer going to try to prove anything to him. Let him be.

Sure. Whatever you say pal.

Why did you change your post?

Originally posted by Milkie
Why did you change your post?

I reexamined everything and thought you were probably talking about me............. Was I wrong???

No, You are right you are always right you know why? Because hes Superman that's why!

Originally posted by Milkie
No, You are right you are always right you know why? Because hes Superman that's why!

A round about answer, but I guess I was right to change my post. Look, my quote "because he's Superman" is actually a pretty decent argument. I shouldn't have to say more, but here's a translation for you sarcastics out there:

"Because he's Superman" = Superman is very resourceful. If I'm being stubborn, it's just because I won't agree with something that's wrong. You guys need to grow up. Man you guys are pissing me off. If you think my argument about Superman having a mental block is wrong, search it on the net or something. You'll get all sorts of stuff. You guys are simply being immature jerks.

http://lolzing.com/albums/GIFsMthruZ/shutupseizure.gif

Originally posted by Milkie
http://lolzing.com/albums/GIFsMthruZ/shutupseizure.gif

Point in case about being an immature jerk........... Dude, really. There's no need for a pissing match. I shall have no more of this.......

Normal for superman is him under Planet Kryptons conditions. Which would have him at a regular human, strengthwise. He is reinforced due to being under a yellow sun, which changed his biology. Normal means what you're born as. He was born with no powers, but with the capacity to gain them, under the right circumstances.
Superman is in more stories than Cap. All i did was refute the claim YOU made. Not me. I didn't say why we always see superman gone crazy. Just that we did. All i did was point out the flaw in your claim.

And for the record, in pure physical traits, they could be identical twins. Strength equal, as is speed and durability. The only true advantages are the hv and expanded senses. Freeze breath is a hinderance at best. Cap could just charge his punches to make Superman feel them that much more.

And all Billy has to do, is transform back into his kidself, and then wait a minute and transform back and he's good to go. And superman only heals fast when he's under the yellow sun. Put him in a red sun envoirnnment and the rate he heals at will be like a snails march. Its all about the area with Superman's "advantages".
And i apologize if i came across as a self righteous prick. Not my intent. But when people give sound, logical reasons and they seem to be ignored, it gets my goat.

Dude i'm just messin around with you. Lighten up.

Originally posted by UniOmni
The only true advantages are the hv and expanded senses. Freeze breath is a hinderance at best. Cap could just charge his punches to make Superman feel them that much more.

They have extra senses. Smell, Hearing, Seeing, etc. Nothing for the eyes though, seeing through walls they can't do but they can see far and wide. and MAYBE Freeze Breath.

Originally posted by Milkie
Dude i'm just messin around with you. Lighten up.

LOL.......... Ok..........

Originally posted by superman41082
LOL.......... Ok..........

http://lolzing.com/albums/GIFsMthruZ/retard.gif

Originally posted by Milkie
http://lolzing.com/albums/GIFsMthruZ/retard.gif

LOL........... Ahhhhhh Leo and his antics...........

What the hell is going on with this board latetly? stop with the bashing.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
What the hell is going on with this board latetly? stop with the bashing.

Alright Alright

I'll be nice for the rest of the week to the new guys

Originally posted by King_Mungi
What the hell is going on with this board latetly? stop with the bashing.

I don't know. Maybe it's that time of the month, but whatever.

Originally posted by Milkie
Alright Alright

I'll be nice for the rest of the week to the new guys

Ummmm....you have 212 posts and he has 195, just ease up fellas.

Hey man I got banned... no but i know my stuff...

http://lolzing.com/albums/GIFsMthruZ/mind.gif

Originally posted by Milkie
Hey man I got banned... no but i know my stuff...

http://lolzing.com/albums/GIFsMthruZ/mind.gif

Alright I'll take your word for it, and you probally do but bashing people does hurt your arguement though.

Cool I'll chill out...

Originally posted by Milkie
Hey man I got banned... no but i know my stuff...

http://lolzing.com/albums/GIFsMthruZ/mind.gif

Sure........... just like you don't poop your bed at night........

Originally posted by superman41082
Sure........... just like you don't poop your bed at night........

Whatever Mr. "The Marvel Family only is supersonic speed"

Originally posted by Milkie
Whatever Mr. "The Marvel Family only is supersonic speed"

I thougth I was supposed to be the sensative one that needed to lighten up? Anyways, when I was younger and read comics all the time, I never got the impression that they were more than really fast, and I guess that really depends on the writer. They're supposed to have the speed of the god Mercury, who wasn't really all that fast, no where near as fast as Superman. The fastst god Hermes wasn't nearly 1/10ths Supes speed...... Anyways............ ahhhhhh well.

Originally posted by superman41082
I thougth I was supposed to be the sensative one that needed to lighten up? Anyways, when I was younger and read comics all the time, I never got the impression that they were more than really fast, and I guess that really depends on the writer. They're supposed to have the speed of the god Mercury, who wasn't really all that fast, no where near as fast as Superman. The fastst god Hermes wasn't nearly 1/10ths Supes speed...... Anyways............ ahhhhhh well.

Black Adam has been clocked at Mach 500... Running... that's near the speed of light buddie

Originally posted by Milkie
Black Adam has been clocked at Mach 500... Running... that's near the speed of light buddie
Not even close.

Mach 500 - 170,145 m/s
Lightspeed - 299,792,458 m/s

Lightspeed is 186,000 m/s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightspeed

Originally posted by jrodslam
Lightspeed is 186,000 m/s
I know that. Miles per second.

Originally posted by Validus
I know that. Miles per second.

Yea, but in your post you said that Lightspeed is 299,792,458 m/s. Thats false.

Mach 500 is very close to lightspeed indeed.

Originally posted by Validus
Not even close.

Mach 500 - 170,145 m/s
Lightspeed - 299,792,458 m/s

http://themot.org/gallery/d/1992-1/Incorrect.jpg

Originally posted by Milkie
http://themot.org/gallery/d/1992-1/Incorrect.jpg

No, you're wrong. You're thinking kilometers..... Light speed is roughly 186,000/mps

Originally posted by superman41082
No, you're wrong. You're thinking kilometers..... Light speed is roughly 186,000/mps

DUDE!!! LOOK!!!! LEARN!!!!

http://img146.imagevenue.com/img.ph...7697_flash1.jpg
http://img14.imagevenue.com/img.php...cd15_flash3.jpg
http://img7.imagevenue.com/img.php?...b1fd_flash4.jpg
http://img144.imagevenue.com/img.ph...fd2f_flash5.jpg
http://img136.imagevenue.com/img.ph...53b7_flash6.jpg

With the Marvel powerset it's kinda of embaressing to see them beat by Superman thousands of years of wisdom and fighting abilities and beat by a relatively new kid on the block...................Mary Marvel takes it to Supergirl.

Originally posted by Milkie
DUDE!!! LOOK!!!! LEARN!!!!



No............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_speed

http://img146.imagevenue.com/img.ph...7697_flash1.jpg
http://img14.imagevenue.com/img.php...cd15_flash3.jpg
http://img7.imagevenue.com/img.php?...b1fd_flash4.jpg
http://img144.imagevenue.com/img.ph...fd2f_flash5.jpg
http://img136.imagevenue.com/img.ph...53b7_flash6.jpg

Originally posted by superman41082
No, you're wrong. You're thinking kilometers..... Light speed is roughly 186,000/mps

Lightspeed is about 186,000 miles per second.

Mach 1 is around 340 miles per second at sea level.

340 multiplied by 500 is 170,000 miles per second.

Lightspeed is roughly 300,000 kilometers per second or roughly 186,000 miles per second.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light

That was those were bad links come here

http://img146.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=b7697_flash1.jpg
http://img14.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=7cd15_flash3.jpg
http://img7.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=eb1fd_flash4.jpg
http://img144.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=cfd2f_flash5.jpg
http://img136.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=953b7_flash6.jpg

Originally posted by Milkie
That was those were bad links come here

http://img146.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=b7697_flash1.jpg
http://img14.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=7cd15_flash3.jpg
http://img7.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=eb1fd_flash4.jpg
http://img144.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=cfd2f_flash5.jpg
http://img136.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=953b7_flash6.jpg
What's that prove?

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6282/e35b8capflash10bs.th.jpg
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/2572/a8c37capflash20lf.th.jpg
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1019/bebcecapflash34xh.th.jpg

Flash even wondered if Cap was connected to the speed force.

Originally posted by Validus
What's that prove?

What doesn't it prove?

superman41082 didn't think the they were that fast.

What about you? What do you have to bring to the table?

Originally posted by superman41082
So wait wait. Are you guys also going to tell me Captain Marvel beats Superman?????? yes kingdom come superman was under the sun for 100+ years captain marvel still put up a great fight. now if captain marvel went all out on the superman we have these days. superman would lose bad.

Originally posted by Milkie
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1124/billyvsclarki5vr.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3572/billyvsclarkii2hl.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2906/billyvsclarkiii6tc.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5811/billyvsclarkiv7le.jpg yup and thats pc supes lol.

Originally posted by mighty adam
yes kingdom come superman was under the sun for 100+ years captain marvel still put up a great fight. now if captain marvel went all out on the superman we have these days. superman would lose bad.
Supes even admitted that CM could stop him.

Originally posted by superman41082
No..... you obviously don't know anything about Superman. Whan he gets knocked down, he stands up even harder. If they ever had CM get the best of Supes, it would just be a flat out mistake. I don't care what some idiot writers opinions are. Superman is Superman, and Captain Marvel would be levels below, despite being ridiculously powerful himself. a god blast from thor supes not getting up. supes is great but not unbeatable

Check it out. If Captain didn't get too in over his head The Big Blue would have been gone.

http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/3526/marvel1a25qp.gif
http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/183/marvel3a49fs.gif
http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/2466/marvel5a65do.gif
http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/313/marvel7a83mt.gif
http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/4310/marvel9a109gm.gif

Originally posted by superman41082
Dude, don't be a jerk! Without Superman, there probably wouldn't even be this forum, and there definately would be no Captain or Mary Marvel. Supes started it all, and he's the quentessential hero. Don't be a jerk!!! yea yea see i like supes but when people talk like he can't be beat. it makes you wanna see him die again.

Originally posted by Milkie
Screw Superman hes not getting my respect. Captain Marvel outsold him until DC started to get jealous and sued. yes so true.

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
It's not ignored by any sense of the word.

If it was, then Captain Marvel - who could crack a planet in half with his punches - would splatter Superman in one punch. Ignored is far too extreme a word.

The punches will have the same effect that a punch from a normal person would have on another normal person. For both of them.

And Supes has been hit by Marvel's magic lightning more than once before - it makes him bleed from the ears, but it doesn't take him down straight outright.

-------------

And as for Superman41082:

Yes, Superman is IMMEMSELY powerful when he cuts loose. But also, when he cuts loose he has less control over his powers - remember, he went absolutely beserk against Wonder Woman when Max took him over, but she still held her own amazingly well.

Superman IS more powerful than Captain Marvel. He has way more feats of strength, speed etc etc and so forth.

But in a fight between the two, they are equal.

This has been shown time and time and time again in the comics.

--------

It's just one of those facts that people don't seem to want to accept. Just because it's Superman, people think it's automatically DC's inherent bias towards him that means he is so powerful in various matchups.

He has been shown MULTIPLE times to be on equal fighting with Captain Marvel in a fight. It's not Marvel jobbing to make Supes look good, it's the fact that they are an equal match.

Likewise with the Flash races - I have EVERY Flash/Superman race. In each one, Flash is given equal coverage and respect as Superman. They're not Superman biased in the stories, so it's NOT Flash jobbing when Superman is only a few steps behind at the end of the races.

----------

Kara Zor-el and Mary Marvel would beat the living daylights out of eachother.

I think that Mary's greater experience and the wisdom of Solomon would win out over Kara's zealousness, giving Mary perhaps a 6/10 win. superman said when flash and zoom was fighting that he could not see them. when superman is a few steps behind flash when flash is really trying is pis and jobbing.

mary marvel would beat her. supergirl is super but mary has shazam on her side.

Originally posted by superman41082
In response to Uni when he said that Cap would cut loose, too. This will be my last post on this thread, because I'm not seeing the help that this discussion is bringing. We all know that Cap Marvel will do the same, but it won't be the same. Cap Marvel gets to be a little boy most of the time, and doesn't have to worry about sneezing too hard and knocking someon out. When he's needed, he goes into battle, and usually gets to release as much tension as he needs to, while Supes keeps himself cooped up all year until there's a need for him to cut loose. Captain Marvel doesn't hold back like Supes, and while he would be more powerful, it would be nothing like when Supes cuts loose. I'm sure that we see Cap near the top of his game most of the time, and we rarely ever see Supes. With both of them cutting loose, Supes will still be significantly more powerful than Cap and has an edge, simply because he's Superman. He's more resourceful, more powerful, and his vulnerability to magic will become almost a nill factor............ ......OK OK YOU WANT TO KEEP HYPEING SUPES HOW ABOUT THIS FANBOY. SUPERMAN CAN DO THIS HE CAN DO THAT BUT SUPERMAN WILL ALWAYS JOB TO BATMAN HOW YOU LIKE THAT. BATMAN BEATS SUPES MOST OF THE TIMES THEY FIGHT. YEA IT'S PIS BUT IT HAPPENS ALOT. SO PLEASE SHUT UP SUPERMAN CAN AND WILL LOSE.

Originally posted by superman41082
Dude, don't be a jerk! Without Superman, there probably wouldn't even be this forum, and there definately would be no Captain or Mary Marvel. Supes started it all, and he's the quentessential hero. Don't be a jerk!!!

Did you know originally Superman could not fly. But after a current Hero came along that could (Marvel) The Big Blue bagan to start flyig... yeah...

Originally posted by Milkie
Did you know originally Superman could not fly. But after a current Hero came along that could (Marvel) The Big Blue bagan to start flyig... yeah... yup but he wouldn't know that. dam dude you really know your stuff

I thought that Mary Marvel had power that was equal to Captain Marvel. Besides, she usually isn't drawn as being anorexic.

Originally posted by mighty adam
yea yea see i like supes but when people talk like he can't be beat. it makes you wanna see him die again.

yea yea, look at the context of why I said that. The guy told me to "stfu and Superman was a jackass". Hence, what I said............. I didn't say he couldn't be beat. I said that Captain Marvel would not be the one to do it, if it's a serious fight. Hey, if he's as fast as Supes, and it's just a little skirmish, I'm not some kind of fanboy that would say that Cap would never get the upper hand. What I'm saying, is that in my opinion, and you guys can complain all you want because it doesn't bother me, that if it's a knock down drag out fight, Superman wins. He's got the experience, and he becomes way more powerful when he cuts loose. He has a mental block on his true power, which when he releases it, he becomes more like pre-crisis Superman, and would toast CM.......... So, whatever guys. Complain all you want. Some of you sound like jerks just opposing me, while I know some of you really think it would be very close, or give an edge to Cap.

But you. You're just being a jerk, and the fact that you "wish superman would die again" doesn't have any bearing on this conversation. You're simply being a jerk, and I'm sure you'd like a date with a woman at some point, too, but that won't happen either. My opinion, and especially from all the research I've done leads me to believe that Supes takes CM every time in a serious fight. A little skirmish is different story, and I do believe that could go either way.

Originally posted by mighty adam
......OK OK YOU WANT TO KEEP HYPEING SUPES HOW ABOUT THIS FANBOY. SUPERMAN CAN DO THIS HE CAN DO THAT BUT SUPERMAN WILL ALWAYS JOB TO BATMAN HOW YOU LIKE THAT. BATMAN BEATS SUPES MOST OF THE TIMES THEY FIGHT. YEA IT'S PIS BUT IT HAPPENS ALOT. SO PLEASE SHUT UP SUPERMAN CAN AND WILL LOSE.

Dude, I love Batman, and it's only natural that they would have Superman lose in those situations. Look, anyone, pretty much, takes Supes if they have Kryptonite, and it'd be pointless to put Batman under mind control, because he's useless without his own mind. What point would there be to having him attack Gotham???? Supes is the ridiculously powerful one, and so they use him as the Devil's Advocate in these cases, and not Batman. Batman would have to take him down or there would be no Batman. I mean, one punch from Supes turns Batman into mush. What would be the point of having them fight if that was going to happen. Oh yeah, and Batman doesn't "beat" Supes, he stops him. It's a bit different.

Look, I'm not sure what you guys are used to. I'm no fanboy protecting my guy or anything. Superman is Superman, and him losing a fight does not change him in my mind. Objectively, I just think he'd win. It's as simple as that, and if you guys are going to be jerks and put things in my mouth, then there's nothing I can do about that. It seems for some reason, you're anti Supermanfanboy's than I am a fanboy. You guys just like to say that Supes would go down, even when he obviously has at least a very good chance. If you guys can't see the metaphor in the characters, and simply look at what they can do instead, you need to grow up!!!!

Mary wins and Superman41082 Cap can beat supes. No matter if supes goes all out when he turns it up Cap will do the same and really tap into the power of Zeus. That means gameover for supes

The Marvel family is as powerful as the Superman family. The fight should come down to the most experienced.

I think the Marvel's at least Cap and Mary are superior

Hmmm