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who wins this?

Doomsday has killed Superman

Hercules.... with full god power... is perhaps the strongest Marvel character... ever....

Originally posted by Betageuze
who wins this?
Hercules.... with full god power... is perhaps the strongest Marvel character... ever....

Really??

I dont know about that.
anyway, can Doomday evolve from magic. I'm not sure

Originally posted by Big Sexy
I dont know about that.
anyway, can Doomday evolve from magic. I'm not sure


already did... wonder woman tried to use her lasso on dd he's just took it off and tied her up in it...

Hercules punches him out..........

Then I guess herc is pretty boned if Doomsday can evolve passed his punches. What is Hercule(full God) anyway.

Originally posted by jinzin
already did... wonder woman tried to use her lasso on dd he's just took it off and tied her up in it...

Wonder how many times WW was tied with her own lasso in her comicbook life...

Originally posted by samishe
Wonder how many times WW was tied with her own lasso in her comicbook life...
very well.. another thing to consider is that darksied has a lot of majicians on apokolips... yet when dd showed up they al ran away...

so far there hasn't been anything the doomsday hasn't proven he could evolve past so....

Full good Hercules..... i heard.. that this is the strongest character in Marvel....

when the wasp said that (normal) Hercules.. is for her... the strongest Avenger EVER..... and Hulk and Thor are (were) Avengers.......


a full good...... full in rage ... Hercules..... have you seen Hercules ... in rage... in the fight against the Thunderbolts.....

oh dear...... if Hercules is in rage....... only a full in rage.. Mindless Hulk... can handle him....

Originally posted by Betageuze
Full good Hercules..... i heard.. that this is the strongest character in Marvel....

when the wasp said that (normal) Hercules.. is for her... the strongest Avenger EVER..... and Hulk and Thor are (were) Avengers.......


a full good...... full in rage ... Hercules..... have you seen Hercules ... in rage... in the fight against the Thunderbolts.....

oh dear...... if Hercules is in rage....... only a full in rage.. Mindless Hulk... can handle him....

so can Hulk Killer Humanoid

doomsday wins

Originally posted by jinzin
so far there hasn't been anything the doomsday hasn't proven he could evolve past so....
Except a punch in the face from Superman.

Originally posted by Validus
Except a punch in the face from Superman.

Originally posted by Validus
Except a punch in the face from Superman.

wow... so you've obviously missed about 99% of doomsday's showings....

Dude Doomday has lost on 2 different occasions besides the death of Superman arc

actually 3

Originally posted by jinzin
wow... so you've obviously missed about 99% of doomsday's showings....
Not at all. Just that in his last appearance he damn near got his face knocked off by a double Thorbuster and that he broke a bone claw on Kal-L's hand. Why is that when DD shows up they rely on Superman to stop him? Disregarding his more exotic powers like T-Vo, what else can Superman bring to a fight besides punches, heat vision and artic breath?

He is a symbol of the american way I guess.

well he is the symbol of the american way besides Doomsday 8.5/10

Originally posted by Validus
Not at all. Just that in his last appearance he damn near got his face knocked off by a double Thorbuster and that he broke a bone claw on Kal-L's hand. Why is that when DD shows up they rely on Superman to stop him? Disregarding his more exotic powers like T-Vo, what else can Superman bring to a fight besides punches, heat vision and artic breath?

saw that.. was that not an alternate timeline version?

he looks exactly like doomsday rex which is an indefinitely weaker version of the character.. I don't see anything on this thread that indicates we're talking about doomsday rex soooo....

Actually there is no GoG wars Doomsday. He was negated by GoG when Superman was saved. And Doomday was KOEd by Superman when returned a while after Hunter/prey took place.

again you're talking about doomsday rex...

also the appearance before doomsday rex, and doomsday's demise at the hands of imperiex showed doomsday kicking superman's ass all over again.. this is the next matchup they had following hunter prey....

Originally posted by jinzin
saw that.. was that not an alternate timeline version?

he looks exactly like doomsday rex which is an indefinitely weaker version of the character.. I don't see anything on this thread that indicates we're talking about doomsday rex soooo....
Artist interpretation. There's nothing to show it was DD Rex either.

When you say Doomsday rex what do you mean?

Originally posted by Big Sexy
When you say Doomsday rex what do you mean?

doomsday rex is a sentient version of doomsday who learned how to fear death.. he beat up on superman pretty badly but when superman had enough he laid down his pimp hand all over doomsday and "killed" him. through fear doomsday rex became weaker and weaker being pretty much ineffectual on supes by the end of the fight...

doomsday rex is pretty clearly different than regular doomsday and the version that validus is commenting on looks exactly like doomsday rex which is an inherently weaker version of the character... thus superman's strength vs. normal doomsday or any other doomsday after DOS is pretty much worthless..

against dd rex.. well that's a different story altogether.

So Doomsday is basically dead now?

Originally posted by jinzin
doomsday rex is a sentient version of doomsday who learned how to fear death.. he beat up on superman pretty badly but when superman had enough he laid down his pimp hand all over doomsday and "killed" him. through fear doomsday rex became weaker and weaker being pretty much ineffectual on supes by the end of the fight...

doomsday rex is pretty clearly different than regular doomsday and the version that validus is commenting on looks exactly like doomsday rex which is an inherently weaker version of the character... thus superman's strength vs. normal doomsday or any other doomsday after DOS is pretty much worthless..

The Doomsday that appeared in Infinite Crisis showed no signs of intelligence at all. He was his old growling self.

DD is stronger than Superman but not by a drastic degree. The only instance of that is Hunter/Prey. Still, my point stands. Doomsday hasn't evolved past a standard punch in the face.

no.. see that's the thing folowing doomsday's character after gog wars is pretty difficult to do..

here's what we know for sure...

doomsday is iradicated by imperiex.
lex luthor uses the dd bones to recreate doomsday who has now evolved into a sentient being, doomsday rex
doomsday rex fights and is "killed" by superman, his body is then given to darksied by luthor...
darksied uses doomsday rex to make DD clones but they are imperfect..
doomsday rex shows up during the apocolips now debacle and whoops up on superheroes showing signs of his former strength only to be devolved into primordial ooze...
doomsday rex's ooze at some point heals and resurrects into a full grown doomsday again (at this point his bodies alterations that he underwent as doomsday rex are now gone)
doomsday wanders through apokolips and space for years trying to track down superman, he shows up in metropolis has superman is under attack by 300 gogs, the gogs defeat doomsday and superman, dd resurrects more powerful than ever and the gogs can't defeat him anymore..
he finds gog prime and they make a deal to save superman in the past in exchange for doomsday becoming "a monster again" the true meaning of which is ambiguous to this day....

dd beats him. it would take a while maybe, but dd would be in no real danger throughout, imo.

Doomsday 10/10, saying Hercules can beat him is like saying Hercules can beat Superman, which he cant

"when the wasp said that (normal) Hercules.. is for her... the strongest Avenger EVER..... and Hulk and Thor are (were) Avengers......."


That was Immortal Hercules. You know. As an immortal God.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/9192/diw29li.jpg


- - -


"a full good...... full in rage ... Hercules..... have you seen Hercules ... in rage... in the fight against the Thunderbolts....."


That was Hercules as mortal.



- - -



"Doomsday 10/10, saying Hercules can beat him is like saying Hercules can beat Superman, which he cant"


Neither Superman and neither Doomsday are going to pull 10 out of 10. A character doesnt fight the way you want to. It fights the way they are written, and the way they are written, they always like to trade punches. They always like to get physical.

And depends with Doomsday we are talking about. The one who killed Superman? Loses the majority against Immortal herc. Rex loses as well.

Gog version, Wars versions and the other whose name escapes me would take the majority.

I don't see any version of Herc. taking DD. He may land some good shots and all but DD will end Hercs life.

And in a pure slugfest Supes will k.o. Herc. 10/10. Still no contest. Sorry Olympian.

Well, yeah, a fight between Superman and Hercules should go down like Superman vs Hulk. But in terms of physical strength, Immortal Hercules is in Superman's league.

And this fight should go to Doomsday mostly due to DD's superspeed.

"I don't see any version of Herc. taking DD. He may land some good shots and all but DD will end Hercs life."


Yeah. Like he has been doing with Superman.



- - -



And in a pure slugfest Supes will k.o. Herc. 10/10. Still no contest. Sorry Olympian."


You dont need to say sorry when your wrong, Snoop renske

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I don't see any version of Herc. taking DD. He may land some good shots and all but DD will end Hercs life.

And in a pure slugfest Supes will k.o. Herc. 10/10. Still no contest. Sorry Olympian.
immortal hercules can't be KO'd but still DD owns him

He can be ko. It just takes alot.

Mind you, Thor and Hulk have never knock him out with force only that im aware of.

Actually that im sure of. Unless theres a Thor fight i never saw before.

Originally posted by olympian
He can be ko. It just takes alot.

Mind you, Thor and Hulk have never knock him out with force only that im aware of.

Actually that im sure of. Unless theres a Thor fight i never saw before.
it is stated in hand book that immortal hercules has infinite stamina so he can't be KO'D

Im not an apologist to handbooks Jugs. He has been ko in comics even as immortal.

Even Juggernaut has. Superman has. Hulk has. And the list goes on.

classic juggernaut was never KO'd by phisical force

If you forget the Onslaught incident, no?

that was depowered juggernaut he got depowered before onslaught saga in all new exiles he lost a part of his powers and he became vulnearble

Can be. I already gave my opinion on the depowered part from a scan you once posted. At most to me it seemed an assumption, not a statement.

Then again its my opinion.

Originally posted by Validus
The Doomsday that appeared in Infinite Crisis showed no signs of intelligence at all. He was his old growling self.

DD is stronger than Superman but not by a drastic degree. The only instance of that is Hunter/Prey. Still, my point stands. Doomsday hasn't evolved past a standard punch in the face.

growling doesn't imply that he was as strong as his normal being.. he was a doomsday rex version of the creature.. it isn't suitable for doomsday... for all we know he could have been another clone...
doomsday clones look just like ddrex and show the same lack of intelligence...
there's nothing that can prove anything either way except the fact that he looked akin to rex rather than dd and that makes a SIGNIFICANT difference as superman has already prven.
so,
no your point doesn't still stand since DD did evolve past that... and the only showings you can bring to the table that contradict it are with the use of DD-rex who is for all intents and purposes entirely different than DD.


it's like trying to argue that things lack of durability makes a standing point for spikey thing's... it doesn't.

DD is comparable to Mindless Hulk. Actually I would say DD is above Mindless Hulk.

How has Immortal Herc. fared against Mindless Hulk? The answer is not very good.

have to say herc hes full god in this

"How has Immortal Herc. fared against Mindless Hulk? The answer is not very good"


One virtual stalemate and a second round that finished with someone on the floor.

Yeah, not very good at all, i agree.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
DD is comparable to Mindless Hulk. Actually I would say DD is above Mindless Hulk.

How has Immortal Herc. fared against Mindless Hulk? The answer is not very good.

DD is NOT above Mindless Hulk.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
DD is NOT above Mindless Hulk.

sure he is.. he's stronger faster more resistant to injury, pain...

and I mean that was just doomsday ward doomsday.. no telling how much more powerful gog wars dd is...

Originally posted by olympian



One virtual stalemate and a second round that finished with someone on the floor.

Yeah, not very good at all, i agree. Yea but Herc. didn't beat him THE AVENGERS DID!

Herc. got slapped around like a sally.

Originally posted by jinzin
sure he is.. he's stronger faster more resistant to injury, pain...

and I mean that was just doomsday ward doomsday.. no telling how much more powerful gog wars dd is...

Faster, sure, but not stronger and certainly not more durable. Higher base level maybe, but it wouldn't take long(probably a few seconds) for Hulk to reach his level.

Originally posted by jinzin
very well.. another thing to consider is that darksied has a lot of majicians on apokolips... yet when dd showed up they al ran away...

so far there hasn't been anything the doomsday hasn't proven he could evolve past so....

This is applicable to only Hunter Prey Doomsday, as the current version has yet to evolve past Superman punches.

Originally posted by jinzin
doomsday rex is a sentient version of doomsday who learned how to fear death.. he beat up on superman pretty badly but when superman had enough he laid down his pimp hand all over doomsday and "killed" him. through fear doomsday rex became weaker and weaker being pretty much ineffectual on supes by the end of the fight...

doomsday rex is pretty clearly different than regular doomsday and the version that validus is commenting on looks exactly like doomsday rex which is an inherently weaker version of the character... thus superman's strength vs. normal doomsday or any other doomsday after DOS is pretty much worthless..

against dd rex.. well that's a different story altogether.

Continuity wise, they are the same characters , what are you talking about ?

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Continuity wise, they are the same characters , what are you talking about ?
Exactly what I'm saying. The only proof of it being Rex is the way he was drawn in IC #7 though it's worth noting he looked like classic DD in the Villains United Special. He showed none of the intelligence which was the main characteristic of Doomsday Rex.

Point stands. S shield > Doomsday

Originally posted by Validus
Exactly what I'm saying. The only proof of it being Rex is the way he was drawn in IC #7 though it's worth noting he looked like classic DD in the Villains United Special. He showed none of the intelligence which was the main characteristic of Doomsday Rex.

Point stands. S shield > Doomsday

In fact i am have yet to see his evolutionary powers in motion .... I havn't read Hunter prey, yet as im waiting for the trade to come out in June.

hmm, "yahman" . . . you've been busy. current dd is tough to figure. i couldn't tell WHICH version was knocked out in IC, but it was handled pretty easily whichever one it was.

h/p version beats herc 10/10 and he was indeed evolving during the battle. even dos dd evolved as noted by supes. dos dd would still beat herc almost everytime imo. rex was hard to figure. i don't think he was . . . weaker per se. his intelligence seemed to have gotten in his way is all, and he wasn't sure how to deal with it or the pain or emotions. least that was my take.

gog wars version crushes herc easily.

That's another thing Leo. The vaunted Gog Wars Doomsday is the same one Superman defeated in Superman #175 (Rex). The difference was that in Gog Wars he was no longer bothered by feelings of mortality and thus performed at his optimum level.

meh depends on how strong herc is Doomsday would have to evolve beyond certain amounts of magic or whatever like when he evolved beyond a large amount of the GL power but was still effected by a gaurdian although minutly.

It looked to me like E1 Superman was going to get whooped had E2 Superman not been there. Funny, really. E2 Superman being a Pre-Crisis Supes and stalemating with Post-Crisis Superman. Then you have Doomsday fighting both of them and smacking E1 Supes while breaking his bones with E2 Supes. I wonder.

Originally posted by Validus
That's another thing Leo. The vaunted Gog Wars Doomsday is the same one Superman defeated in Superman #175 (Rex). The difference was that in Gog Wars he was no longer bothered by feelings of mortality and thus performed at his optimum level.

in the sense that there is only one dd, i understand what you're saying, v. but, he was tossing gogs around like they were you or i! at least one difference between rex and gog wars was his level of intellect. it seemed to me rex was the neanderthal version of gogwars so at least intellectually he had evolved beyond rex. physically, it is difficult to determine, but rex got the snot kicked out of him. i don't think supes was gonna kick the crap outta gogwars version, do you?

Certainly not but Superman even said the only reason he owned DD Rex was because DD was doubting himself and affecting his own performance. Not because of a low power level. Don't forget, Rex owned J'onn easier than he did during DOS.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
it is stated in hand book that immortal hercules has infinite stamina so he can't be KO'D

Immortal Hercules is an absolute beast ... he takes this. He is the only one (when he is ticked off) who can match Warrior Madness or uninhibited (King) Thor in sheer physical power. Plus he is a more skilled fighter.

Good point and in a slugfest Herc would own Superman

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Faster, sure, but not stronger and certainly not more durable. Higher base level maybe, but it wouldn't take long(probably a few seconds) for Hulk to reach his level.

bull... hulk has problems with characters like namor, thor, and herc on pure strength levels... doomsday EASILY overpowered superman in strength levels alone.. and superman lifts things in the quintillions.. he pulls freaking planets...

dd worked him and the rest of the leagues collective ass no problem whatsoever.. hulk isn't on DD's level in brute strength... and it's take him A WHILE to get worked up enough to get there...

i say herc cause hes a full powered god

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
This is applicable to only Hunter Prey Doomsday, as the current version has yet to evolve past Superman punches.
wrong...

you're reffering to DD rex...

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Continuity wise, they are the same characters , what are you talking about ?

cause it's not doomsday if you're talking about DD rex which you are...

doomsday OBVIOUSLY evolved past superman's punches.. this was apparent in every damn showing he had... UNTIL dd rex showed up...
again.. it's like comparing thing to spikey thing, or savage hulk to joe fixit and trying to pass off that they are the same characters.. they're the same body perhaps.. but completely different in terms of powersets....

if this thread said DD rex then you'd be right.. but it doesn't....

Originally posted by Validus
Exactly what I'm saying. The only proof of it being Rex is the way he was drawn in IC #7 though it's worth noting he looked like classic DD in the Villains United Special. He showed none of the intelligence which was the main characteristic of Doomsday Rex.

Point stands. S shield > Doomsday

and both the look and characteristic are BOTH signs of dd rex clones... there's no way of telling that it was dd since evidence suggests it was rex instead, or worse, a clone...

there seems to be some serious misconceptions about herc here wether full god or not,marve's herc has never shown to be stronger than normal thor or savage hulk he certainly is in their ballpark and they are virtual equals in strength but that is it and i have read every herc v thor and herc v hulk fight published since the early sixties.He is a great warrior and matches thor and hulk in strength department but that is it and doomsday will take him out.

"even dos dd evolved as noted by supes"


You mean Superman in H/P noticing that DD evolved from the previous encounter that was DOS.

If you want to pit the DOS version against Herc, then his chances arent really high. That fight proved DD was getting weared down. Byrne Superman won against him and he wasent stronger than the top tier this side of Marvel.

And considering how low the speed demostrated was, that wouldnt even be that much of an advantage.

The rest, except Rex pretty much dominate.

no oly, in h/p dd was evolving. he evolved a spike to stab supes when he was flying. didn't he adapt his ears for something as well? he was constantly evolving in dos and h/p. even though supes seemed to have been weaker then, he was still top of the dc foodchain. herc would stand a chance against dos, but no way herc does what dos did to the jla. he would have a chance, but not a good one imo.

there is a bit of an overestimation of herc's strength i think. he and thor are almost exactly equal. i give herc the very slightest of advantage, but not enough to make a difference. the difference between thor and herc lies in skill h2h where herc is a slight superior.

and your point is well taken about rex, val. i'd forgotten how easily he'd handled manhunter. still, gogwars had no such inhibition and i still think it's impossible to say whether it was only his intelligence that evolved or whether he was stronger as well. clearly he was much stronger than during dos. stronger than h/p? it seemed like it to moi, but there's really no proof one way or the other.

dd is was and remains a fascinating character to me.

"no oly, in h/p dd was evolving. he evolved a spike to stab supes when he was flying. didn't he adapt his ears for something as well? he was constantly evolving in dos and h/p. even though supes seemed to have been weaker then, he was still top of the dc foodchain"


Nah, i know he evolved past some attacks in H/P, while the match was happening. Namely the sonic attack wich he protected of. But during DOS there is no evidence he evolved of anything -during- the fight. In fact the broken spike bone only showed up, healed again in HP. Not before.



- - -



"herc would stand a chance against dos, but no way herc does what dos did to the jla. he would have a chance, but not a good one imo. "

Physically speaking, Superman -alone- did what that JLa couldnt. And what Byrne Superman has on its record that makes him better than the top tier at Marvel? Certainly not strength, IMO.

Physically speaking i can well see Herc doing the same Superman did. Especialy when no member was stronger than he is. Keep in mind they had only Superman and a MM that at at the time couldnt displayed -his- powers but of another, iirc.



- - -




"there is a bit of an overestimation of herc's strength i think. he and thor are almost exactly equal. i give herc the very slightest of advantage, but not enough to make a difference. the difference between thor and herc lies in skill h2h where herc is a slight superior."


Thats where his strenght is. No overastimation here. Byrne Superman wasent in the same league. He wasent that below either mind you, but i wouldnt get him in exact equal terms with Hulk and Thor physically either. And that Doomsday end being in a way defeated, considering he died first and Kal only later.




- - -




"clearly he was much stronger than during dos. stronger than h/p? it seemed like it to moi, but there's really no proof one way or the other."


For me the HP version and Wars remain the most powerful considering what he did there.

HP was the real beast. Superman couldnt do a thing and needed to resort a last deception trick in order to even get out of it alive. A shame the character has been losing points since Jurgens left the helm. And many.




- - -




And for some who wants enlightment due to the internet myth about how Herc was beaten during the Hulk against Bi- Coast Avengers match. I give you some scans:


http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5938/avengersih322b9ce4pd.jpg

Look how Hulk slapped everyone around. He must have knocked out a bunch of people there, right?


http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/8660/avengersih322c0am8wa.jpg

Ops. Talked too soon.


http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=avengersih322d5oz0jo.jpg

What is this? He couldnt kill Samson? (ok, hold the jokes).


http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/5818/avengersih322e2vk7yg.jpg

Despair at the amazing back hand! Herc must have feard for his life there. No? Oh, just how much a sport the match is. Ouf!


http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/4972/avengersih322f7yf6st.jpg

The second best move Hulk did against the Olympian. He must be out cold!


http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2724/herc11fe.jpg

Not really. Note how Herc is so afraid of losing to Hulk that he quickly lets She Hulk and Iron Man have its fun. "Bah, let them finish the job"


http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3333/avengersih322j4xw3ac.jpg

Everything seems lost now, doesnt it?


http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3838/herc23zh.jpg

"here i come to save the day"


http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4673/avengersih322m9na6oy.jpg

And leading the charge.


http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9333/avengersih322n4cq2nj.jpg

Hulk is ready for nap time.


http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9949/herc30en.jpg

I wonder what Betty gave to Herc, in order for him not to kill her husband.

Im done for now. Anyone wants to post the whole thing, please do so.

he did evolve in that dos fight oly. supes commented on dos's strength increasing. can't recall if anything else evolved in that fight. herc has a chance v dos, depending on how you interpret his speed which has always been open to interpretation. if he is as fast as the heroes made him out to be, he would beat herc. if he fghts a hulk-like fight without speed, herc could win a few.

"he did evolve in that dos fight oly. supes commented on dos's strength increasing"


He evolved that level in HP. After DoS.

What i recall was Superman commenting on how DD -wasent- decreasing strenght even after practically figthing after that long a time. He wasent wearing down until a certain time in the story.

Futhermore what i took as you saying was him evolving as becoming imune during the fight against some attacks. In DOS unlike HP that didnt happened.

And as final note, you also have the statement towards the end, saying DD was getting weaken/wored down.

About speed, i dont think theres much to interpretation here, What Booster claimed was -suposse- to be impressive but was overlooked and proven not to be right in the whole story. And frankly not even in just a way but many.

P.S (i forgot another leaguer who did good as well: Maxima).

Doomsday was evolving, learning and adapting in Death of Superman. For example, when Superman was trying to keep him in the air and get him out of Metropolis, he starting choose the direction his mass would move, even turning and dodging in mid air, without flight.

But yeah a lot of it had to do with him not getting weaker as Supes energy stores were draining away. And him becoming immune to attacks.

And about Booster, he's not the only one to note Doomsday's speed, Superman said several times Doomsday was faster and he was maxing it just to keep up. And Guy Gardner, with a power ring, said he was too fast to even react to... couldn't see him move at all. Gl's are no strangers to light speeds.
The deal at the end with the crowd watching was obviously for effect, and had no basis on the rest of the comic. It's just a representation of the world being there and watching "the day a Superman died.".

Originally posted by Juntai
Doomsday was evolving, learning and adapting in Death of Superman. For example, when Superman was trying to keep him in the air and get him out of Metropolis, he starting choose the direction his mass would move, even turning and dodging in mid air, without flight.

But yeah a lot of it had to do with him not getting weaker as Supes energy stores were draining away. And him becoming immune to attacks.

And about Booster, he's not the only one to note Doomsday's speed, Superman said several times Doomsday was faster and he was maxing it just to keep up. And Guy Gardner, with a power ring, said he was too fast to even react to... couldn't see him move at all. Gl's are no strangers to light speeds.
The deal at the end with the crowd watching was obviously for effect, and had no basis on the rest of the comic. It's just a representation of the world being there and watching "the day a Superman died.".

pretty much exactly what i wanted to say.

jlakmc rox!

"Doomsday was evolving, learning and adapting in Death of Superman. For example, when Superman was trying to keep him in the air and get him out of Metropolis, he starting choose the direction his mass would move, even turning and dodging in mid air, without flight."


Can be. Altho the struggling part i see anyone do as long he has the strenght level to back it up.



- - -



"And about Booster, he's not the only one to note Doomsday's speed, Superman said several times Doomsday was faster and he was maxing it just to keep up. And Guy Gardner, with a power ring, said he was too fast to even react to... couldn't see him move at all. Gl's are no strangers to light speeds."

Sure, when they -are- moving at ligh speeds. Problem is, Gardner wasent moving at high speeds at all. Booster cooment rings even wrongly when you note how he doesnt have superspeed even. Any guy faster than him is going to be labelled faster than the Flash?

The whole issue is supported in the whole story. The reports following them as they fight. Lois Lane does the whole report. Jimmy takes shots of the fight. We see people watching TV and how the fight goes.

Camus soldiers at the end while slower wer on theyr track and could see where they wer heading.

Too much details show how that comment is the one suposse to be not taken seriously. Meant only to say "Yes, for a big monster he sure is fast".

Superman itself saying he has to match his speed in the end doesnt make it faster for me. They wer both showed not to be faster than the eye could follow.

Originally posted by leonidas
he did evolve in that dos fight oly. supes commented on dos's strength increasing. can't recall if anything else evolved in that fight. herc has a chance v dos, depending on how you interpret his speed which has always been open to interpretation. if he is as fast as the heroes made him out to be, he would beat herc. if he fghts a hulk-like fight without speed, herc could win a few.

no


consistantly tags superman, tied up ww in her lasso faster than she could react.. took out flash while flash was coming up from behind...

Originally posted by jinzin
and both the look and characteristic are BOTH signs of dd rex clones... there's no way of telling that it was dd since evidence suggests it was rex instead, or worse, a clone...
Like I said before, he didn't look that way in the VU Special which just supports the artists interpretation theory.

What characteristics are you talking about? He showed up, beat some C list heroes and got KO'd by two Krytponians. I'm not seeing any Rex characteristics. Wasn't Rex casually dropped by one Superman?

Originally posted by jinzin
no


consistantly tags superman, tied up ww in her lasso faster than she could react.. took out flash while flash was coming up from behind...

i agree. earlier i said dos would win because of his speed. but several contest that speed. if he did fight a hulk-style, then herc has a chance. if he uses the speed he was creditted with, he'll beat herc everytime.

Originally posted by Validus
Like I said before, he didn't look that way in the VU Special which just supports the artists interpretation theory.

What characteristics are you talking about? He showed up, beat some C list heroes and got KO'd by two Krytponians. I'm not seeing any Rex characteristics. Wasn't Rex casually dropped by one Superman?

low end durability, lower end strength, and speed.... and he looks exactly like DD rex...

dude you know so much about dd rex you would know that ANY dd aside from rex has put supes and all his buddies on the recieving end of a pattented asskicking...

the only times that's changed are when rex was the example.. and hey look.. there he is.. looks just like rex.. hmm interesting...

There was nothing low end in there. He punched Superman(E-1), broke a claw (which he did in DOS), got a knee to face from Superman (E-2) and put down by the dual Thorbuster. The 4 panels there is better than his showing in Superman #175.

-"dude you know so much about dd rex you would know that ANY dd aside from rex has put supes and all his buddies on the recieving end of a pattented asskicking..."

Except even Rex made J'onn Jonzz his (w)itch easier than he did in DOS. And is Villains United not canon or something?

Originally posted by Validus
There was nothing low end in there. He punched Superman(E-1), broke a claw (which he did in DOS), got a knee to face from Superman (E-2) and put down by the dual Thorbuster. The 4 panels there is better than his showing in Superman #175.
first off he never broke a claw on superman in the aformentioned dos.. superman STOMPED it off.. there's a difference.. i can run someone through with an immitation sword but if they get ahold of it and break it over their knee well.... okay maybe that's not a good example but the fact still remains... the way he broke his claw is practically identical to how he did so in supes 175 and incomparible to what supes did to him in DOS.... his claws breaking wasn't the result of making initial impact with superman in dos.. with rex however it was.. the whole claw issue actually helps my debate more than yours...


no it's not... in supes 175 he at least had the upperhand on supes for a bit...and took supes primary puches with little to no effect at all.....


Originally posted by Validus
-"dude you know so much about dd rex you would know that ANY dd aside from rex has put supes and all his buddies on the recieving end of a pattented asskicking..."

Except even Rex made J'onn Jonzz his (w)itch easier than he did in DOS. And is Villains United not canon or something? he had fire breath......

batman's put martians down with fire... not really impressed...

"consistantly tags superman, tied up ww in her lasso faster than she could react.. took out flash while flash was coming up from behind... "



"Wars" version obviously wins. No one said otherwise.

Its the DOS that fails to hit the mark. Even if it was impressive against Byrne Superman.

Originally posted by jinzin
first off he never broke a claw on superman in the aformentioned dos.. superman STOMPED it off.. there's a difference.. i can run someone through with an immitation sword but if they get ahold of it and break it over their knee well.... okay maybe that's not a good example but the fact still remains... the way he broke his claw is practically identical to how he did so in supes 175 and incomparible to what supes did to him in DOS.... his claws breaking wasn't the result of making initial impact with superman in dos.. with rex however it was.. the whole claw issue actually helps my debate more than yours...


no it's not... in supes 175 he at least had the upperhand on supes for a bit...and took supes primary puches with little to no effect at all.....


he had fire breath......

batman's put martians down with fire... not really impressed...
Prior to the fire breath Rex took 3 of J'onn's best hits to no effect and then brought him to his knees. Not mention he blocked his telepathy. How is that not better than the DOS showing? J'onn was much weaker in DOS and he was hardly taken out of that fight. Not that it matters but DD never actually beat Maxima either. DD put J'onn down again in Villains United amongst a group of others. No matter what you fail to answer for that. The fact that Superman is the one who constantly beats him just proves my original point.

-"no it's not... in supes 175 he at least had the upperhand on supes for a bit...and took supes primary puches with little to no effect at all....."

Wouldn't that along with the showing against J'onn prove Rex wasn't inherently weaker than any other version? Not to mention Rex and Gog Wars are implied to be the same clone.

Originally posted by Validus
Prior to the fire breath Rex took 3 of J'onn's best hits to no effect and then brought him to his knees. Not mention he blocked his telepathy. How is that not better than the DOS showing?
the question is how IS it better? NOTHING the entirety of the JLA did to doomsday in DOS effected the guy... they stalled him (barely) and ripped his clothing.... Maxima knocked him around but that didn't last long and she didn't manage to hurt him anyways.... infact, superman states that when he breaks DD's knee bone claww that he's FINALLY managed to hurt the guy.... this implies NOTHING anyone did up to that point hurt DD.... the fact that MM's punches had no effect doesn't prove this is better showing...
as for him being on his knees. so what? he was overpowered in brute strength.. still not enough to make this a better showing than DOS... DOS dd did this with a fair amount of ease to as I recall...
and there's no telling how that fight would have ended.. to assume that he had already lost is somewhat jumping the gun on an ambiguous panal which can't be supported for your argument or mine.

Originally posted by Validus
J'onn was much weaker in DOS and he was hardly taken out of that fight. DD didn't have fire breath and he didn't stay long enough TO be taken out... still doesn't prove that rex's showing is better than DOS....

Originally posted by Validus
Not that it matters but DD never actually beat Maxima either. no but he was gaining the upperhand on both her and supes by the time she pulled that stunt at the gas station... long story short.. DD's durability>>>supes and maxima...

Originally posted by Validus
DD put J'onn down again in Villains United amongst a group of others.
did he? I don't remember that.. but scans please?

Originally posted by Validus
No matter what you fail to answer for that. The fact that Superman is the one who constantly beats him just proves my original point.

the only time aside from DOS that supes could even threaten dd was when he was fighting the rex version of the character... which proves my original point...


-"no it's not... in supes 175 he at least had the upperhand on supes for a bit...and took supes primary puches with little to no effect at all....."

Originally posted by Validus
Wouldn't that along with the showing against J'onn prove Rex wasn't inherently weaker than any other version?
no..... no it wouldn't..... all it proves was that rex could take a few punches when the fight started.. it proves that his showing against supes was SLIGHTLY better in 175 than in IC... but it doesn't prove that he isn't inherintly weaker since NO other DD with the exception of rex as been so easily put down....

Originally posted by Validus
Not to mention Rex and Gog Wars are implied to be the same clone. kinda... but you're ignoring a very important fact.. in apocolips now DD rex was vaporised into primodial ooze.... the DD that evolved from that was gog wars dd who took on the physical characteristics of his former self while retaining his intelligence and losing his "fear" of superman.... DD rex is what existed before that evolution took place...

which brings up a question.. where did this DD come from? in gog wars and the storyline thereof he's said to have traveled for some time before ever getting back to earth to fight gog and his army... but this dd shows up WELL before that ever takes place...

i dunno there's a lot of shady things in that comic... like bane.. when the hell did he get back on the venom? hell he was clean even in no man's land but he's back on the juice now?
finally I'm not sure that the DD that fought in IC WAS lacking intelligence as you said.. sure he didn't say anything.. but he was sentient enough to pick sides... I don't know... I got a lot of questions and I don't think DC's gonna be giving answers anytime soon.

I say Hercules in New York will win this HA HA HA HA

Arnold power makes it easy to win. He will just rip his shirt and show the upsart who has the real muscles.