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The classic teams.

Alpha Flight - Guardian, Vindicator, Shaman, Marrina, Snowbird, Northstar, Aurora, Puck, Sasquatch

Hellfire Club - Sebastian Shaw, Emma Frost, Selene, Mastermind (Jason Wyngarde), Donald Pierce, Sage


Who wins?

toss-up............

Shaw has the ability to absorb Kinetic energy, and I know Frost's powers, but what about the rest of the hellfire club?

AS for alphaflight, they are one of the best and most well rounded teams around (unfortunately they are never written like that).

Team members like Guardian, Vindicator, Shaman and Marrina are pretty powerful and Diverse.

Snowbird, Northstar, Aurora, Puck and Sasquatch by themselves are formadable, with the top ranking Alphans I see this team hard to beat. I will however reserve my judgement until I know more about the Hellfire club's membership.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellfire_Club_%28comics%29

Donald Pierce is a cyborg, strong and highly resistant to damage. He's similar to Collossus but much weaker, maybe Class 10. He's a lot faster and more agile than Collossus though.

Mastermind can project telepathic illusions. He's very good at it. He's manipulated Phoenix for a while, and Sentry.

Selene has too many powers for me to be bothered to explain, here's her wiki file http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selene_%28comics%29 ......go look

Sage is a like a living computer. Very skilled fighter too.

Thanks Golem, you beat me to it!

Alpha Flight has several members that block telepathy, and with Aurora and Northstar the Hellfire is up to get speedblitz. Shaman could always release the Void, Marrina transforms into her ultimate form that took on the Avengers.

Since it's classic teams, is it classic powers as well?

Yeah, we'll go with classic powers for now.

Would you see the fight going differently with current powers?

Alpha Flight - Guardian, Vindicator, Shaman, Marrina, Snowbird, Northstar, Aurora, Puck, Sasquatch

Hellfire Club - Sebastian Shaw, Emma Frost, Selene, Mastermind (Jason Wyngarde), Donald Pierce, Sage

Guardian and vidicator take care of the telepaths.

Shaman (I would think) is far more powerful that Selene.

Sasquatch Crushes Pierce.

Leaving Marrina, Snowbird, Northstar, Aurora and Puck to deal with Shaw and Sage.

I'm leaning towards alpha flight on this one. Hellfire's powers seem to crossover quite a bit. A good team should have more diversity.

Selene seems like the biggest threat for the Alpha flight, the rest should get speed blitzed. So if the AF find a way to take out Selene without her stealing their life-force then they win.

The HC is not so much a team it's more about power, money and bureaucracy.

If Selene is truly Immortal and can teleport with ease she could transport Sasquatch Puck and Snowbird into the sun and maybe even Marrina to. Since Guardian is completely robtic now couldn't Sage Cyberpathy is mind?

Cyberpathy (also called cyberkinetics) is a fictional psionic ability to psychically interact with computers and/or electronic equipment (this excludes non-electric machinery, such as guns and the average car). This is usually accomplished by psionically "reading" the computer's electronic impulses, or converting their own thoughts into electronic signals which they mentally transmit into the computer, or psychokinetically controlling the computer's circuitry. Often used in science fiction, cyberpathy (cyber referring to computers, and pathy meaning "feeling" enables a person (called a cyberpath) to control computers, or read data files from a computer system without being in the immediate vicinity of a computer, or control technology such as robots or security systems, or have a mind which functions like a computer.

Originally posted by golem370
If Selene is truly Immortal and can teleport with ease she could transport Sasquatch Puck and Snowbird into the sun and maybe even Marrina to. Since Guardian is completely robtic now couldn't Sage Cyberpathy is mind?

Cyberpathy (also called cyberkinetics) is a fictional psionic ability to psychically interact with computers and/or electronic equipment (this excludes non-electric machinery, such as guns and the average car). This is usually accomplished by psionically "reading" the computer's electronic impulses, or converting their own thoughts into electronic signals which they mentally transmit into the computer, or psychokinetically controlling the computer's circuitry. Often used in science fiction, cyberpathy (cyber referring to computers, and pathy meaning "feeling" enables a person (called a cyberpath) to control computers, or read data files from a computer system without being in the immediate vicinity of a computer, or control technology such as robots or security systems, or have a mind which functions like a computer.

Tanaraq/Sasquatch and Snowbird are truely immortal and you can't teleport her against her will. Plus they have Shaman who can do the exact same thing and more. No this is classic powers, meaning he isn't a cyborg in this fight,

Snowbird:
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Snowbird

edit: Prove to me she even has that sort of skill with teleporting anyways.

Then he gets mind raped and so does Vindicator and this is truly classic Alpha then Tanaraq hadn't met Sasquatch so he is not Immortal.Face it there boned

What would happen If Selene drained him of his life Shaman I mean and Sasquatch and Puck and the others.

http://www.selene71.coolfreepages.com/

Originally posted by golem370
Then he gets mind raped and so does Vindicator and this is truly classic Alpha then Tanaraq hadn't met Sasquatch so he is not Immortal.Face it there boned

Gaurdian has always been able to shut down the minds of others.

I think you are heavily underestimating Shaman.

And Tanaraq has ALWAYS been a part of the Sasquatch character.

You are placing all your eggs in Selene's basket. I think there are more than enough powers on alphaflight to deal with her.

Originally posted by golem370
Then he gets mind raped and so does Vindicator and this is truly classic Alpha then Tanaraq hadn't met Sasquatch so he is not Immortal.Face it there boned

No, he has electromangetic telepathy blocks in place, same as Vindicator. No again, Sasquatch is using Tanaraq's body, they meet in a flashback in AF#8. So maybe you should actually learn before you speak.

Originally posted by golem370
What would happen If Selene drained him of his life Shaman I mean and Sasquatch and Puck and the others.

If she tried to do that to Sasquatch, Tanaraq would be released as he is part of the classic AF. Puck's dead as he is just a dwarf and she wouldn't against Shaman as he is on a higher level than her

Originally posted by golem370
http://www.selene71.coolfreepages.com/

and?...where does it state she can teleport them to the sun?

Selene slaughtered the Externals(Who are suppose to be immortal) with her Life draining powers, wouldn't that mean ALL immortals will turn to dust.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Gaurdian has always been able to shut down the minds of others.

I think you are heavily underestimating Shaman.

And Tanaraq has ALWAYS been a part of the Sasquatch character.


Yep, same with Vindicator with the E-M suit just cyborg Guardian could do it to a higher degree.

Shaman can always suck her into the Void or do what he did to Shaw
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/WhatIf_v2_59_WhatifWolverineleadAlp.jpg

Correct.
============

Shaman spells:
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Shaman

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Selene slaughtered the Externals(Who are suppose to be immortal) with her Life draining powers, wouldn't that mean ALL immortals will turn to dust.

No, because Snowbird is a demi-god not just any immortal and Tanaraq is a god older than the Earth itself. They are on a higher level than Gideon

One could argue that Selene could pull out her vast psionic and magical abilities, to battle Shaman, however there are very few feats of this. The extent of her magical abilities are unknown, so I guess the AF win this.(After all it is 9 vs 6)

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
One could argue that Selene could pull out her vast psionic and magical abilities, to battle Shaman, however there are very few feats of this. The extent of her magical abilities are unknown, so I guess the AF win this.(After all it is 9 vs 6)

Shaman has psionic, and a higher level of magic. He's been doing this a lot longer. Now if this was current Alpha Flight, Hellfire is destroyed

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Shaman vs. Atomic Bomb
Avengers #323-324-After the Avengers set off a nuclear bomb that Russian terrorists hijacked, all the heroes and Newfoundland are about to be killed. However, Shaman's quick thinking saves everyone by inverting his poutch sucking everyone and even the land into it. He was already getting exhausted transporting people from Newfoundland far away from the possible blast area and then performed this feat. He held the dimensions for over 2 hours, what a beast. Problem is he couldn't release them earlier due to they all became poisoned by the radiation so he couldn't bring them through. He probally could have cleanzed them himself, but at this point he was already exhausted. They eventually get cleanzed and Shaman saves the day. Now that's a badass feat.

1. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_01_rougher.jpg
2. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_02_rougher.jpg
3. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_03_rougher.jpg
4. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_04_rougher.jpg
5. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_05_rougher.jpg
6. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_323_06_rougher.jpg
7. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_324_07_rougher.jpg
8. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_324_13_rougher.jpg
9. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/avengers_v1_324_17_rougher.jpg

Well Selene is very old(Older then Apocalypse), and the extent of her powers are unknown so I don't think it's fair to say that.
If it's current Hellfire then Cassandra Nova should be a major problem with her DNA Duplication ability. And well little is known about Perfection so it's really unfair to say that. (Anyway if it's Current HC it'll still be 5 vs 9)

Teleportation: Selene can teleport all over the world in but a thought

Selene's origin is as yet unrevealed, but she is known to have lived for several millennia, and to have been a foe of the ancient sorcerer, Kulan Gath. In past ages, she was renowned as a sorceress whose power was feared and respected by other magic users. She eventually came to live in the ancient Roman Republic. At some point, Selene established herself as a goddess to those who would worship her. Over the millennia, her worshippers grew into a worldwide cult.
For unknown reasons, Selene led many to believe she had accompanied a large number of Roman citizens who fled the first century B.C. Italy and sailed to the New World, where they founded Nova Roma in a hidden section of the Amazon jungle in present-day Brazil. These Nova Romans supposedly lived there for roughly two thousand years, and was supposedly where Selene first founded her Cult of Fire as its Black Priestess. However, it has been since revealed that Nova Roma was a massive illusion maintained by Selene and her minion, the mutant known as Empath, to hold its citizens (in reality, kidnapped British and American tourists, including the mutant known as Magma) captive. This deception was eventually revealed by the mutant heroes of the New Warriors and X-force.
Prior to this revelation, however, Selene posed as the wife to Nova Roma Senator Marcus Domitius Gallo, whose plot to abolish the republican Nova Roman government led to her first encounter with the mutant teens of the New Mutants.
Selene soon after travelled to New York, where members of her worldwide cult had a church. The leader of the cult, Friedrich von Roehm, was also a member of the Hellfire Club, an elite group secretly dedicated to achieving world domination. With Von Roehm's help, Selene entered the Inner Circle of the Club and rapidly rose to the high rank of Black Queen.

Originally posted by golem370
Teleportation: Selene can teleport all over the world in but a thought


How does that prove she can send them to the sun?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Well Selene is very old(Older then Apocalypse), and the extent of her powers are unknown so I don't think it's fair to say that.
If it's current Hellfire then Cassandra Nova should be a major problem with her DNA Duplication ability. And well little is known about Perfection so it's really unfair to say that. (Anyway if it's Current HC it'll still be 5 vs 9)

but she is not a magical creature as Shaman, who is said to rival even Dr.Strange. I highly doubt she is even in his league in magic. Even Shaman has saved all realities from Carcass, the disciple of Choas. If Shaman really wants to be a dick, he just freezes time

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/scan0014.jpg

Well the list posted isn't even the strongest members of Alpha Flight. Such others are Talisman, Windshear, Pathway, Feedback, Witchfire, etc.

Well to be fair, niether is the Hellfire Club. The Phoenix and Magneto were once members. And it's still unfair to count Selene out in the Magic Department. As we haven't seen her demonstrate any limits.

Alpha Flight should take this one

Seriously their only disadvantage here is that they are from Canada.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Well to be fair, niether is the Hellfire Club. The Phoenix and Magneto were once members. And it's still unfair to count Selene out in the Magic Department. As we haven't seen her demonstrate any limits.

Only one they would have to worry about is Dark Phoenix, as they can take Magneto. So? just because we havn't seen her do anything magical wise doesn't mean she can stand next to the big dogs of magic.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Alpha Flight should take this one

Seriously their only disadvantage here is that they are from Canada.

Bad form.

And I was just beginning to like you

Yeah, the real disadvantage is that some of them are from Quebec...
Just kidding!
Anyways, it sounds to me like Alpha Flight would win this.

Here's Alpha Flight bios:

Guardian
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Guardian_I

Vindicator (Same powers with E-M suit, but this is her Geothermal)
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Vindicator_II

Shaman
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Shaman

Marrina
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Marrina

Snowbird
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Snowbird

Northstar
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Northstar

Aurora
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Aurora

Puck
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Puck_I

Sasquatch
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Sasquatch_I

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Bad form.

And I was just beginning to like you

Hey bub I was just kidding

I got nothing against you cannucks.

except quebeck

and universal healthcare, but im not getting into that now

Originally posted by Grimm22
Hey bub I was just kidding

No problems, I kinds knew it

We've seen what Wyngarde and Emma can do together. Combined they were able to manipulate the Dark Phoenix. I give the win to the Hellfire Club.

They would win anyway via Sebastian Shaw's coolness factor.

Most of Hellfire would be taken out via speedblitz by the twins.