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Sinc surfer has no blood or internal organs how would each other fair against each other.

Hmmm, I would think surfer would manage to take this 10/10. The surfer has iceman's powers....but so much more on top of it.

cosign

Yea, assuming that he coul just control matter. But no one woul either kill the other.

Bobby aint dumb. He's a big enough dude to take out a telepath like Xavier. He'd go for Surfer's Power Cosmic and rid him of his awareness first. Then He'd prob. just sink Norrin in a lot of water where he would be lost forever till the power he had left ran out.

Wait, I'm confused. How exactly would Bobby take out Norrin's cosmic awareness. Especially without Norrin being aware of it beforehand?

Bobby's conciousness appears to be his power not molecules or ice.
He could just about knock anyone out with a absolute zero attack on their awareness.
theirs a diff. between concious control and awareness and bobby

Iceman loses. BADLY.

Let me spell that out for you: B-A-D-L-Y

Dude, SS is a cosmic entity Iceman is a mutant ( omega level ) but he still human, this is not even a match.

Originally posted by Rols
Dude, SS is a cosmic entity Iceman is a mutant ( omega level ) but he still human, this is not even a match.


You know omega-level unlimited and ultimate potential right?

Ok, I didn't say anything for the Iceman VS. Black Bolt thread, but this one is kinda pushing it. Iceman has no chance whatsoever in winning a battle against SS let alone hurt him.

Silver Surfer 10 times out of 10.

Yes, i know that but cosmic is beyond human comprehension.

Surfer wins 10/10. Being a space traveler the Surfer would routinely be exposed to temperatures near to or at absolute zero. Being that he is an alien who has been transformed by Galactus with the power cosmic, I highly doubt it can be said for certain that he even has water molecules in his body or that Iceman's control over them would be greater than his own.

Now exactly how the Surfer will beat Iceman is a good question given Iceman's ability to transfer his consciousness. The obvious answer to me is for the Surfer to transmute all of the nearby water vapor into other elements. The reason he could pull this off while other characters might not be able to is that his powers would prevent Iceman from actually harming him. Lacking some form of a telepathic attack, the best way to counter Iceman's powers, imo, is to have some form of resistance to low temperature + control over their own molecules. Since the Surfer has both of these, it is only a matter of time before he eventually takes out Iceman.

Originally posted by Rols
Yes, i know that but cosmic is beyond human comprehension.


If someone has ultimate and unlimited potential the descend human comprehension and go into abstract territory.


In the Cable Vs Surfer fight Cable could have killed Surfer.

I don't see why Iceman can't either.

sufer takes this (wat happened to the old cartoon of ss i use to watch it all the time)

So what you are saying is that Bobby is a cosmic entity now since he is of omega level. I had thought that omega level designate mutant are mutants on their ultimate or close potential not unlimited. I dont know about Franklin Richard dough, he is considered a mutant but both his parent were blessed with cosmic energy that gave them their power.



How about Surfer blows up the planet their fighting on, exposing Bobby in space, i dont think he could survived in space let alone fighting SS.




I dont see how Cable or Iceman could kill SS.
Even teamed together they still do not have enough power to beat him.
Just my 2 cents

Surfer can do what Iceman can do and more besides. He vapourizes Iceman. Nuff said.

transmutes iceman's oxygen molecules into sulfur....then he dies

People here were claiming that Iceman froze Stranger....

Isn't stranger far higher on the cosmic scale than SS?

Originally posted by TheKahn
Surfer wins 10/10. Being a space traveler the Surfer would routinely be exposed to temperatures near to or at absolute zero. Being that he is an alien who has been transformed by Galactus with the power cosmic, I highly doubt it can be said for certain that he even has water molecules in his body or that Iceman's control over them would be greater than his own.

Now exactly how the Surfer will beat Iceman is a good question given Iceman's ability to transfer his consciousness. The obvious answer to me is for the Surfer to transmute all of the nearby water vapor into other elements. The reason he could pull this off while other characters might not be able to is that his powers would prevent Iceman from actually harming him. Lacking some form of a telepathic attack, the best way to counter Iceman's powers, imo, is to have some form of resistance to low temperature + control over their own molecules. Since the Surfer has both of these, it is only a matter of time before he eventually takes out Iceman.

I agree with kahn.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
People here were claiming that Iceman froze Stranger....

Isn't stranger far higher on the cosmic scale than SS?

That's a good question.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
That's a good question.

Here's another good question: If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy all her friends?

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Originally posted by Psyquis52
Here's another good question: If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy all her friends?

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

It tasted badly.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
People here were claiming that Iceman froze Stranger....

Isn't stranger far higher on the cosmic scale than SS?


you beat me to it!



i wonder about that scene with stranger though. i've seen the scan where he freezes, but . . . what followed? was that the end? bobby froze him and beat him? or did stranger smash out a moment later? it only stands to reason that bobby could freeze stranger, imo. he just froze the air around him. i suspect supes could do the same thing to the stranger. thing is, did he STAY frozen? bobby could likley dreeze ss as well - if he could hit him -- but again, that wouldn't end the fight because ss could smash out.

so . . . what DID happen AFTER stranger was frozen? did he stay froze or did he blast out?

oh, and how would ss kill him? he'd transmute him then scatter the individual atoms across the universe or banish some o this dimension and others to that dimension preventing his consciousness from reforming.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Surfer wins 10/10. Being a space traveler the Surfer would routinely be exposed to temperatures near to or at absolute zero. Being that he is an alien who has been transformed by Galactus with the power cosmic, I highly doubt it can be said for certain that he even has water molecules in his body or that Iceman's control over them would be greater than his own.

Now exactly how the Surfer will beat Iceman is a good question given Iceman's ability to transfer his consciousness. The obvious answer to me is for the Surfer to transmute all of the nearby water vapor into other elements. The reason he could pull this off while other characters might not be able to is that his powers would prevent Iceman from actually harming him. Lacking some form of a telepathic attack, the best way to counter Iceman's powers, imo, is to have some form of resistance to low temperature + control over their own molecules. Since the Surfer has both of these, it is only a matter of time before he eventually takes out Iceman. First off. Absolute Zero is a THEORY, IT DOES NOT AND CANNOT EXIST, the natural radiation of the universe itself forces a temperature of at least 3 degrees above absolute zero anywhere. Absolute Zero would require the absense of this. Lots of characters can survive this. LOTS of them. Characters like Superman and Thor fly through the void of space like this on the regular, 3 degrees off of absolute zero, the coldest it gets in the known universe.


Next, I believe Surfer would just as easily trap or disperse his consciousness if he needed to and had the will to do so.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Surfer wins 10/10. Being a space traveler the Surfer would routinely be exposed to temperatures near to or at absolute zero. Being that he is an alien who has been transformed by Galactus with the power cosmic, I highly doubt it can be said for certain that he even has water molecules in his body or that Iceman's control over them would be greater than his own.


Surfer has blood.

The silver coating is what protects him on the outside.

Originally posted by leonidas


you beat me to it!



i wonder about that scene with stranger though. i've seen the scan where he freezes, but . . . what followed? was that the end? bobby froze him and beat him? or did stranger smash out a moment later? it only stands to reason that bobby could freeze stranger, imo. he just froze the air around him. i suspect supes could do the same thing to the stranger. thing is, did he STAY frozen? bobby could likley dreeze ss as well - if he could hit him -- but again, that wouldn't end the fight because ss could smash out.

so . . . what DID happen AFTER stranger was frozen? did he stay froze or did he blast out?

oh, and how would ss kill him? he'd transmute him then scatter the individual atoms across the universe or banish some o this dimension and others to that dimension preventing his consciousness from reforming.

Agreed. I'm still not in agreement with this "uber" bobby anyway. If he's a disembodied conscience, then he can't be a mutant. Being a mutant entails that one has DNA. If one has DNA, then he can be hurt physically somehow. While I agree bobby has excellent potential, I doubt he's anywhere near the god level they have been trying to portray him as.

SS wins. He uses power pis to turn off Bobbys mutant gene.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Agreed. I'm still not in agreement with this "uber" bobby anyway. If he's a disembodied conscience, then he can't be a mutant. Being a mutant entails that one has DNA. If one has DNA, then he can be hurt physically somehow.

Quentin Quire

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Agreed. I'm still not in agreement with this "uber" bobby anyway. If he's a disembodied conscience, then he can't be a mutant. Being a mutant entails that one has DNA. If one has DNA, then he can be hurt physically somehow. While I agree bobby has excellent potential, I doubt he's anywhere near the god level they have been trying to portray him as.

SS wins. He uses power pis to turn off Bobbys mutant gene. I think a lot of his power, is used out of context on the forum. When was the last time Bobby anything remotely close to the stuff people have claimed he can do over the last year?

Originally posted by leonidas
i wonder about that scene with stranger though. i've seen the scan where he freezes, but . . . what followed? was that the end? bobby froze him and beat him? or did stranger smash out a moment later? it only stands to reason that bobby could freeze stranger, imo. he just froze the air around him. i suspect supes could do the same thing to the stranger. thing is, did he STAY frozen? bobby could likley dreeze ss as well - if he could hit him -- but again, that wouldn't end the fight because ss could smash out.

so . . . what DID happen AFTER stranger was frozen? did he stay froze or did he blast out?

oh, and how would ss kill him? he'd transmute him then scatter the individual atoms across the universe or banish some o this dimension and others to that dimension preventing his consciousness from reforming.

The first time Iceman froze Stranger, he made him brittle and Juggy smashed him. As Stranger's bottom half was in pieces as he lay on the ground, he said..... "Matter is random, anarrangement of parts. Rearrange the pieces." "Create a new puzzle." Stranger then turned himself into flames/fire and took Juggy and Jean into space.

Second time, Stranger was hit by Juggs, but when he went to use fire/heat beams on Cain, Bobby froze his heat/fire beam. I assume Stranger was in some sort of pain by the "AAAGH!". While Stranger tried to break the ice from his eyes, Bobby Flash froze his body completely(unlike the first time). As Jean, Toad, Juggy and Mystique escaped the ship as it crumbled, Bobby remained in the ship to make sure Stranger remained immobile.

So in answer to your question leo, Stranger was unable to break out and Bobby saw to that as the others escaped. Thing is however, such a being as Stranger may have broken out within seconds if Bobby had not stayed there. With Iceman there to make sure it didnt happen while the others left allows me to believe Iceman pretty much had him beat. Or would it be called a stalemate because Stranger wasnt killed or badly injured?

Originally posted by Juntai
First off. Absolute Zero is a THEORY, IT DOES NOT AND CANNOT EXIST, the natural radiation of the universe itself forces a temperature of at least 3 degrees above absolute zero anywhere. Absolute Zero would require the absense of this. Lots of characters can survive this. LOTS of them. Characters like Superman and Thor fly through the void of space like this on the regular, 3 degrees off of absolute zero, the coldest it gets in the known universe.


Next, I believe Surfer would just as easily trap or disperse his consciousness if he needed to and had the will to do so.



Very true. I must apologize as I was apparently too lazy to look up if temperatures at absolute zero actually occur in nature (although I did put near in my other post just to cover my ass). I only meant that post to convey my thoughts on whether Iceman could actually harm the Surfer in any way. As I think Iceman cannot, it is only a matter of time before the Surfer pulls out one of his more exotic powers and wins the fight such as imprisoning Iceman in his board:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1996_122_17.jpg

Originally posted by Juntai
I think a lot of his power, is used out of context on the forum. When was the last time Bobby anything remotely close to the stuff people have claimed he can do over the last year?

I do think that sometimes Icemans powers are used a bit out of context. When was the last time he did those things? Years maybe. Would i say he cant do it anymore? Naw. Would i say its much harder for him to now? Yes. I think thats only due to his lack of storyline and character usage. Over the years however(about 10 or so) he HAS been shown to do things close to waht he did to Stranger. He just hasnt done it to people/beings on that level of Strnager if thats what you mean. I do still think hes still well capable of doing those feats, but like i said nowe it may be a bit harder for him due to the recent power situtatioins going on with him lately.

Edit: Be back later. Going to go see X3.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I do think that sometimes Icemans powers are used a bit out of context. When was the last time he did those things? Years maybe. Would i say he cant do it anymore? Naw. Would i say its much harder for him to now? Yes. I think thats only due to his lack of storyline and character usage. Over the years however(about 10 or so) he HAS been shown to do things close to waht he did to Stranger. He just hasnt done it to people/beings on that level of Strnager if thats what you mean. I do still think hes still well capable of doing those feats, but like i said nowe it may be a bit harder for him due to the recent power situtatioins going on with him lately.

Edit: Be back later. Going to go see X3.
This early.......shock

Originally posted by Skeets
This early.......shock

Hehe. Me and my fiance have a appointment first(baby oln the way). THEN X3.

Originally posted by TheKahn


Very true. I must apologize as I was apparently too lazy to look up if temperatures at absolute zero actually occur in nature (although I did put near in my other post just to cover my ass). I only meant that post to convey my thoughts on whether Iceman could actually harm the Surfer in any way. As I think Iceman cannot, it is only a matter of time before the Surfer pulls out one of his more exotic powers and wins the fight such as imprisoning Iceman in his board:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1996_122_17.jpg I was just clearing up the confusion, not trying to be scathing or anything.


And yeah, like the board, once he lets loose, Ice man would have no chance.
Look at his showing in the latest annihilation for example. He was attacked by those guys with the negative version of the power cosmic, and then was like "YOU CANT COMPREHEND THE POWER I WIELD!!" and it showed a panoramic of Surfer just created a massive bubble of energy, looked maybe about city sized... then just floated out.

However, a few pages earlier, some dog like alien creatures knocked him off his board and were kicking his ass.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Hehe. Me and my fiance have a appointment first(baby oln the way). THEN X3.
Cool man,Congrats..........clap

Originally posted by Skeets
Cool man,Congrats..........clap Ditto.

Originally posted by Juntai
I was just clearing up the confusion, not trying to be scathing or anything.


And yeah, like the board, once he lets loose, Ice man would have no chance.
Look at his showing in the latest annihilation for example. He was attacked by those guys with the negative version of the power cosmic, and then was like "YOU CANT COMPREHEND THE POWER I WIELD!!" and it showed a panoramic of Surfer just created a massive bubble of energy, looked maybe about city sized... then just floated out.

However, a few pages earlier, some dog like alien creatures knocked him off his board and were kicking his ass.
What when he made the black hole? and of course the dogs knocked him on his ass when he wasn't even trying to fight.

Originally posted by Skeets
What when he made the black hole? and of course the dogs knocked him on his ass when he wasn't even trying to fight. No, it wasn't a black hole. He just bubbled up energy and flew off.

Originally posted by Juntai
No, it wasn't a black hole. He just bubbled up energy and flew off.

It indeed was a Black hole here's the word straight from Thanos.

Thanos-
"It is a Singularity Blackhole--Brought about by the Silver Surfer's Energy Dischange".
"Do not say "Hungry hole" again if you value your continued Existence".

Skreet was reffering to it as a hungry hole until Thanos corrected her with the above Quote........
Here's the scan I just found in the respect thread.
http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annihilationsilversurfer10196y.jpg

Originally posted by Juntai
I was just clearing up the confusion, not trying to be scathing or anything.


And yeah, like the board, once he lets loose, Ice man would have no chance.
Look at his showing in the latest annihilation for example. He was attacked by those guys with the negative version of the power cosmic, and then was like "YOU CANT COMPREHEND THE POWER I WIELD!!" and it showed a panoramic of Surfer just created a massive bubble of energy, looked maybe about city sized... then just floated out.

However, a few pages earlier, some dog like alien creatures knocked him off his board and were kicking his ass.

It's cool. It was my fault for being careless with my reasoning, and all you did was just clear it up . And if the Surfer can now create black holes then Iceman is even more screwed. Surfer 100000000000/10.

But could Iceman's consciousness be sucked within a black hole ?

Originally posted by Skeets
It indeed was a Black hole here's the word straight from Thanos.

Thanos-
"It is a Singularity Blackhole--Brought about by the Silver Surfer's Energy Dischange".
"Do not say "Hungry hole" again if you value your continued Existence".

Skreet was reffering to it as a hungry hole until Thanos corrected her with the above Quote........
Here's the scan I just found in the respect thread.
http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annihilationsilversurfer10196y.jpg Ooh, I forgot about that.

Funny, now I've pulled it out.

On the page after that, Skreet says she beat up Surfer before. lol. "Surferer! Knows THAT one, Skreet does. Laid a clobberin on that one a good ways back. HATES Him!"

Funny how it seems to take off right after the Thanos 12 issues ended off.

Originally posted by grey fox
But could Iceman's consciousness be sucked within a black hole ? The moisture could.

Originally posted by Juntai
The moisture could.

I know that , what I'm asking though is would Bobby's consciousness . Because if it doesn't then he could just float back to another piece of moisture.

Originally posted by grey fox
I know that , what I'm asking though is would Bobby's consciousness . Because if it doesn't then he could just float back to another piece of moisture. Effectively though, that may or not be a vast distance. For example, what if this happened in the void of empty space? Lould he teleport a great distance, like 70 thousand miles to Earth and appear if it was the nearest moisture he could accomplish this with? How about 700 million? Can Bobby teleport anywhere anytime he wants, basically?|
If he can't? Probably wouldn't live through such an attack.

Originally posted by TheKahn
It's cool. It was my fault for being careless with my reasoning, and all you did was just clear it up . And if the Surfer can now create black holes then Iceman is even more screwed. Surfer 100000000000/10.

i'm gonna disagree with you jun. i think bobby could achieve absolute zero -- the cessation of molecular activity. the space example is not great because that is an OUTSIDE temperature. bobby attacks an INDIVIDUAL'S molecular structure. it's just his 'power'. has nothing to do with real life or real life science. i don't think it would help him much in this case though . . .

oh and jrod -- CONGRATS! and thanks for filling in the blanks for me re: the stranger. if he DID keep him frozen that is impressive. the fact that he had to remain behind is a bit telling. more say he can cast his consciousness into any moisture. were that so completely the case he would not have had to remain there but could have controlled the ice from wherever he was.

Oh my. People actually believe Iceman can beat Silver Surfer. This can only happen on killermovies.com

I guess, after the Iceman vs Thor and Iceman vs Superman threads, this thread was inevitable. So, for the third time...

"If one can take a single-power person, like Iceman, to the Nth degree, such that he defeats the Stranger (and, btw, could he consistently beat the Stranger? doubtful, unless the Stranger is an idiot to the Nth degree), then imagine taking a multi-power individual, like the Silver Surfer, to the Nth degree.

"All else being equal, Iceman--while having the potential to defeat the Silver Surfer--is Not the Surfer's superior."

Surfer 8/10 (and that's being kind).

so basically bobby's power is revealed to be "inhabiting ice with his consciousness thereby being able to control and create ice."

when was this revealed?

Originally posted by Mindship
I guess, after the Iceman vs Thor and Iceman vs Superman threads, this thread was inevitable. So, for the third time...

"If one can take a single-power person, like Iceman, to the Nth degree, such that he defeats the Stranger (and, btw, could he consistently beat the Stranger? doubtful, unless the Stranger is an idiot to the Nth degree), then imagine taking a multi-power individual, like the Silver Surfer, to the Nth degree.

"All else being equal, Iceman--while having the potential to defeat the Silver Surfer--is Not the Surfer's superior."

Surfer 8/10 (and that's being kind).

only prob with this argument is bobby has been shown REACHING the nth (near nth) degree on several occasions . . . the others have their high showings of course, but are not consistently depicted at their . . . nth, er, degree-ness . . .

Originally posted by Juntai
First off. Absolute Zero is a THEORY, IT DOES NOT AND CANNOT EXIST, the natural radiation of the universe itself forces a temperature of at least 3 degrees above absolute zero anywhere.

I'd like to take this one step further, if I may.
Even if you could eliminate the cosmic background radiation of space, you still could not achieve absolute zero because of the Uncertainty Principle. The Uncertainty Principle--a basic foundation of quantum mechanics--states that one can not know (for example) both the momentum of a given particle and its position, which the complete cessation of all atomic/subatomic activity would allow one to do.

Furthermore, whether one is talking about "outer space" or the space within an atom (and atoms are mostly empty space), you still could not get absolute zero because the Uncertainty Principle also allows for quantum-vacuum fluctuations, also known as zero-point energy (that's why it is called "zero-point," a reference to absolute zero).

Originally posted by Mindship
I'd like to take this one step further, if I may.
Even if you could eliminate the cosmic background radiation of space, you still could not achieve absolute zero because of the Uncertainty Principle. The Uncertainty Principle--a basic foundation of quantum mechanics--states that one can not know (for example) both the momentum of a given particle and its position, which the complete cessation of all atomic/subatomic activity would allow one to do.

Furthermore, whether one is talking about "outer space" or the space within an atom (and atoms are mostly empty space), you still could not get absolute zero because the Uncertainty Principle also allows for quantum-vacuum fluctuations, also known as zero-point energy (that's why it is called "zero-point," a reference to absolute zero).

an outstanding point -- in the real world . . .



on a side note -- scientists have come ENORMOUSLY close to achieving absolute zero and matter alters at those temperatures. bose-einstein condensates, anyone . . .

Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
In the Cable Vs Surfer fight Cable could have killed Surfer.
Whaaa?! Did you not see the last page when Surfer was tired of fighting and brushed Cable off with his eyebeams?

Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Surfer has blood.

The silver coating is what protects him on the outside.
Has it ever been shown what's inside Surfer? The only time I can recall him having his innards exposed is in Marvel Zombies where it was shown that Silver Surfer had the insides made of energy and marshmallow bones.

Originally posted by jrodslam
With Iceman there to make sure it didnt happen while the others left allows me to believe Iceman pretty much had him beat. Or would it be called a stalemate because Stranger wasnt killed or badly injured?
I would call it a thwart.

this is getting ridiculous.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Has it ever been shown what's inside Surfer?

actually it has. he's been stabbed with a magic dagger and something LIKE blood came from him. what it's actual makeup is is completely unknown of course, and there is absolutely no reason to think he has water in a body that has essentially been completely remade into a cosmic energy generator. does NOVA have water in her system? firelord?

can't say for certain, but i would feel safe in guessing the answer is no . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
an outstanding point -- in the real world . . .


And we all know how closely comics parallel the real world

on a side note -- scientists have come ENORMOUSLY close to achieving absolute zero and matter alters at those temperatures. bose-einstein condensates, anyone . . .

Quite true, and my guess is, as the science of hypercold matures, it will open up a whole new world of materials, technologies and expand the boundaries of human capability.

Now, if I could just remember to make ice cubes...

Originally posted by leonidas
oh and jrod -- CONGRATS! and thanks for filling in the blanks for me re: the stranger. if he DID keep him frozen that is impressive. the fact that he had to remain behind is a bit telling. more say he can cast his consciousness into any moisture. were that so completely the case he would not have had to remain there but could have controlled the ice from wherever he was.

Thanks man and all those who replied.

Iceman could have kept Stranger frozen in place and exited the ship with the others i believe. Why do i say that? Because earlier on that ship, Iceman mentioned that when the Sentinels evaporated him, he could still feel himself as a part of everything. When he froze the entire ship, his consciousness was also spread through trhe entire ship. Jean asked if he was still there and Bobby replied "Jean, im kind of everywhere!"

Thus i think him staying on the ship was seemingly just to ensure things. Plus he was able to teleport out of it at will in which he did after the ship vanished and created a vaccum.

where did he teleport to? and perhaps he stayed behind because the distance would have been too great to stretch his consciousness over had he NOT remained behind?

fyi for anyone interested -- The coldest temperature that scientists have have generated is one ten thousandth of one millionth of a degree above Absolute Zero!! damn, and i thought my wife could be cold at times . . .



(ahh, just kiddin' sweetheart. )

I have the scans....just a a min

here:
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p268ua.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p274yb.jpg
http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p287nj.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p299vn.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p306bc.jpg
http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p317lr.jpg


more of his showings. Apperantly he is physically in two places at once:
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever5p087lm.jpg
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever5p093pq.jpg


explained later that he can become a part of...everything. Heres the scans:
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever5p192kj.jpg
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever5p208wl.jpg
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever5p217vf.jpg
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever5p227kd.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p328ro.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p332jg.jpg

the star design looks like the same one as when the ship goes kabloowie and Iceman comes back:
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p231pp.jpg

Isn't the Stranger just a genius...

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Whaaa?! Did you not see the last page when Surfer was tired of fighting and brushed Cable off with his eyebeams?

Did you see how Cable the entire time they where fighting was trying to convince him to go along with him rather then kill him telepathically?

He could've mind raped him if he wanted to.

Did you see how Cable broke his board like it was nothing?

He could've done that easy to him.

Or teleportred Surfer off some where.

Cable wasn't trying to fight him to kill him.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Has it ever been shown what's inside Surfer? The only time I can recall him having his innards exposed is in Marvel Zombies where it was shown that Silver Surfer had the insides made of energy and marshmallow bones.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Isn't the Stranger just a genius...


Cosmic Being....

since when can iceman do those things!

Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Did you see how Cable the entire time they where fighting was trying to convince him to go along with him rather then kill him telepathically?

He could've mind raped him if he wanted to.

Did you see how Cable broke his board like it was nothing?

He could've done that easy to him.

Or teleportred Surfer off some where.

Cable wasn't trying to fight him to kill him.
Yeah, Cable was going to do what Moondragon with the soul gem failed to do and he broke an object that in of itself was below Surfer then teleport a teleporter away. He was sure going to butter his bean then serve it to him cold.

And there's no way telling if what's in that scan is blood as we know it. It looks like metallic or something.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Cosmic Being....
His wiki suggests he was a scientist too but he looks like a doofus. Why didn't he shoot more fire out of his eyes to melt the ice? Or radiate energy?

Unless it's not in his powerset then that's understandable.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Yeah, Cable was going to do what Moondragon with the soul gem failed to do and he broke an object that in of itself was below Surfer then teleport a teleporter away. He was sure going to butter his bean then serve it to him cold.

He broke his borke his board, his board is made up of the same thing as him.....

I know he can teleport....that doesn't mean teleporting him away for a moment wouldn't buy him time to be prepaired when he returns....I mean its not like he'd need to though anyways....

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
And there's no way telling if what's in that scan is blood as we know it. It looks like metallic or something.

Nah...it looks like blood, they say its blood...

Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
He broke his borke his board, his board is made up of the same thing as him.....
But doesn't have the ability to brace itself in defense. It doesn't create shields and it doesn't conciously draw power from the power cosmic to make itself stronger. But if it is true that Surfer has a flat durability akin to his board then he repair his body as simply as he reformed his board.


That sounds like way more trouble than it's worth.


It's "blood" in the sense of its his body juices but that's either a guess on the attacker's part or they just don't care. You'd have to be pretty silly to think the people of Zenn-La have the same stuff flowing within them as humans.

Not that Iceman can do any of this.

That's odd. In the Enslavers story arc Mrrungo Mu cracked Silver Surfer open and he seaped energy with no blood whatsoever.

Maybe it was the Power Cosmic/Magic combo that was stated in the scan that did it to him. In all of his other depictions he's inorganic.

As badass as Iceman is I gotta give surfer the majority.Surfer is one of the few people with the power set and physical abilities to beat bobby.Bobby can beat alot of powerful people not just by the amount of power he has but the nature of his power.I mean if your water based your screwed.Surfer isn't though.Now I've never seen Surfer use TP offensivly before but that's not to say he can't.The only offensive weapon that would be uesful is his ability to make an absolute zero envirement to stop surfers offense.Bobby could probable pick up the first 2 fights but would lose the next 6 or 7 and tie one or two.

Originally posted by illadelph12
That's odd. In the Enslavers story arc Mrrungo Mu cracked Silver Surfer open and he seaped energy with no blood whatsoever.

Maybe it was the Power Cosmic/Magic combo that was stated in the scan that did it to him. In all of his other depictions he's inorganic.
Was the Enslaver arc more recent than the scan posted? Because it might be that his insides fermented in the power cosmic for so long that his insides became composed of it.

Cable was trying to reason with him because he knows he cant stop him, if he could he probably would have done it already.

Cable did not broke SS board like it was nothing, he put a lot into it, look at the comic panel again. A few villain broke his board but none of them manage to do desame to his body.

SS survived a mind blast from moondragon with the mind gem, i dont see Cable mind raping him.

SS was also holding back, but look at the way he stopped him and quite easily at that.



I think the Enslaver story arc is older than scan posted. I quess it all depends on the writer.

Originally posted by Rols
Cable was trying to reason with him because he knows he cant stop him, if he could he probably would have done it already.

Cable did not broke SS board like it was nothing, he put a lot into it, look at the comic panel again. A few villain broke his board but none of them manage to do desame to his body.

SS survived a mind blast from moondragon with the mind gem, i dont see Cable mind raping him.

SS was also holding back, but look at the way he stopped him and quite easily at that.



I think the Enslaver story arc is older than scan posted. I quess it all depends on the writer. Agreed. Cable was no match for Surfer. Not on any level. And I don't see Bobby messing with Surfer's insides if Surfer doesn't allow it.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
But doesn't have the ability to brace itself in defense. It doesn't create shields and it doesn't conciously draw power from the power cosmic to make itself stronger. But if it is true that Surfer has a flat durability akin to his board then he repair his body as simply as he reformed his board.

I've never seen if he's completely shatered that he can rebuild himself.

I know once somethings dead Surfer can't give it life again.

If he can't to other things, then I shouldnn't be able to to himself.

Alot of good those shields were when Cable blasted him around...

Surfer got one shoot at him in the end.

It was obvious he could've killed him if he wanted to.

Did you know he was holding up an entire ship telepathically among other things well fighting him?

He put Surfer on his ass and Cable wasn't even directing his full power.

The facts are, they weren't gonna have Cable kill Surfer off because they had plans for Surfer in the mini hes in now, plus the appearances in planet Hulk.

This same thing happend to Taskmaster right befor his mini came out.

The writer of bloodsport was going to have Mister X kill off Taskmaster in that issue, but Marvel didn't ok it because they had plans for him in the Taskmaster mini.


Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
It's "blood" in the sense of its his body juices but that's either a guess on the attacker's part or they just don't care. You'd have to be pretty silly to think the people of Zenn-La have the same stuff flowing within them as humans.

They were a humanoid race...

Originally posted by Rols
Cable was trying to reason with him because he knows he cant stop him, if he could he probably would have done it already.

No, he was reasoning with Cyclops and he could've beat him easy too.

Originally posted by Rols
Cable did not broke SS board like it was nothing, he put a lot into it, look at the comic panel again.


Yeah it was like nothing it took one shot....



Originally posted by Rols
SS survived a mind blast from moondragon with the mind gem, i dont see Cable mind raping him.

I don't really remeber that so i'm not gonna comment.


Originally posted by Rols
SS was also holding back, but look at the way he stopped him and quite easily at that.

Buddy the fight took nearly the whole issue....

Dude, the surfer holds back as bad as Superman.

Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
No, he was reasoning with Cyclops and he could've beat him easy too.




Yeah it was like nothing it took one shot....





I don't really remeber that so i'm not gonna comment.




Buddy the fight took nearly the whole issue.... And it ended as soon as Surfer wanted it to end; and in one shot. Cable put up a good showing -he got in a decent attack or so- but he was clearly no match for the Surfer.

iceman freezes surfers board till it breaks.

Originally posted by diabloman
iceman freezes surfers board till it breaks. How will that happen? The Surfer's board is completely unaffected by the extreme, sub-zero temperatures of deep space.

This thread is so lame. Ive lost all respect for people who actually believe iceman can beat silver surfer.....all respect.

thats.....great. He has however beaten someone of a higher caliber than Surfer, so people can take that into consideration. Omega level mutants are those who have no limits to their powers, and are the evolutionary tool that humans go on to become greater than the cosmic forces (all according to X-men forever)

Originally posted by Acrosurge
How will that happen? The Surfer's board is completely unaffected by the extreme, sub-zero temperatures of deep space.

Space is 3 degrees above absolute zero. At absolute zero NOTHING moves. All molecules all...everything is frozen. Not as in ICE frozen, but frozen as in it just doesnt move at all. Ice is a byproduct. Iceman can freeze at that level.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
How will that happen? The Surfer's board is completely unaffected by the extreme, sub-zero temperatures of deep space. iceman can freeze just about anything.

Originally posted by Mordum
This thread is so lame. Ive lost all respect for people who actually believe iceman can beat silver surfer.....all respect.
I personally think it's great an Iceman/Surfer thread could go 5 pages with legit points on Bobby's side. The snowball throwing kid has come a long way.

Next up, Iceman Vs Thanos.

Originally posted by diabloman
iceman can freeze just about anything. Guess Mephisto better keep his eye on Hell, huh?

I don't believe this is happening.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
And it ended as soon as Surfer wanted it to end; and in one shot. Cable put up a good showing -he got in a decent attack or so- but he was clearly no match for the Surfer.


No it didn't...

I'm positive he wouldn't have wanted it to go on as long as it did.

How is he no match?

Because he said he can't keep repairing the damage that their fight was causing?

His powers were directed in a number of diffrent places well handing Surfer his ass...

to late

Originally posted by Validus
I personally think it's great an Iceman/Surfer thread could go 5 pages with legit points on Bobby's side. The snowball throwing kid has come a long way.

Next up, Iceman Vs Thanos.

not a bad idea...


I think it is more a comment on how individual may or may not pass judgement on a fight based on their preconceived notions instead of an objective analysis of the combatants powers.

Originally posted by Validus
I personally think it's great an Iceman/Surfer thread could go 5 pages with legit points on Bobby's side. The snowball throwing kid has come a long way.

Next up, Iceman Vs Thanos. Originally posted by TheKahn
not a bad idea...


I think it is more a comment on how individual may or may not pass judgement on a fight based on their preconceived notions instead of an objective analysis of the combatants powers. Originally posted by Skeets
to late

Originally posted by Skeets
to late

Damn you....

So who's next on Iceman's hit list?

Originally posted by Validus
So who's next on Iceman's hit list?

Super girl? SBP?

You gotta see that show Iceman was atleast Rune Thor level.......

Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
No it didn't...

I'm positive he wouldn't have wanted it to go on as long as it did.

How is he no match?

Because he said he can't keep repairing the damage that their fight was causing?

His powers were directed in a number of diffrent places well handing Surfer his ass... Cable states, "I can't last much longer." He was ailing. Surfer was forcing Cable to burn out his powers; therefore wrecking Cable's entire plan. This was Surfer's plan from the beginning. It was the safest way to incapacitate Cable, rather than risking the planet from a Cable-explosion.

Odd, Cable landed two shots on Surfer and you suggest that Cable dominated the battle. Who was being forcibly driven through cities, fleets, and oceans? Cable. Who was completely wrecked by a single blast? Cable. At the end, who was on his back with a nearly flatlined power signature? Um, Cable.

But apparently, Nathan is nothing compared with the monumental majesty that is Icegod. *sarcasm* Yes, the Galactus reference was on purpose. Heck, Bobby should be able to knock off a fullpower Galactus on Tuesday. Twice on Thursday.

Originally posted by Black Adam
Super girl? SBP?
Those would just be repeats of the Superman thread. How about non jobbing Darkseid?

Originally posted by Validus
Those would just be repeats of the Superman thread. How about non jobbing Darkseid?
Iceman's connected to the Source haven't you heard...........

Iceman vs the Spectre

Originally posted by Skeets
Iceman's connected to the Source haven't you heard...........
Iceman Vs Zero Hour Parallax

1234

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Was the Enslaver arc more recent than the scan posted? Because it might be that his insides fermented in the power cosmic for so long that his insides became composed of it.

The Enslavers story was from 1990.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
Cable states, "I can't last much longer." He was ailing. Surfer was forcing Cable to burn out his powers; therefore wrecking Cable's entire plan. This was Surfer's plan from the beginning. It was the safest way to incapacitate Cable, rather than risking the planet from a Cable-explosion.

Okay...

It was cleary Surfer plan to have his board busted well he was on it(well hes on it is when its indestructable) blasted around and what not...nice plan...

Originally posted by Acrosurge
Odd, Cable landed two shots on Surfer and you suggest that Cable dominated the battle. Who was being forcibly driven through cities, fleets, and oceans? Cable. Who was completely wrecked by a single blast? Cable. At the end, who was on his back with a nearly flatlined power signature? Um, Cable.



You're acting like his powers were being totally directed at Surfer...

More shots then Surfer landed and it could've easily been Surfer himself that got destroyed like his board...

Whats the point in arguing the Surfer/Cable fight?we all saw what happend you cant argue the fact that Cable got layed out when Surfer got serious for that split second.

Delirious mutha****as.

Originally posted by Skeets
Whats the point in arguing the Surfer/Cable fight?we all saw what happend you cant argue the fact that Cable got layed out when Surfer got serious for that split second.


I'm arguing events that could've happend if Cable got serious for that split second rather then Surfer.

Which could've just as easily happend.

Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
I'm arguing events that could've happend if Cable got serious for that split second rather then Surfer.

Which could've just as easily happend.
That's just Speculation by a Cable fan............

Originally posted by Skeets
That's just Speculation by a Cable fan............


Verse speculation by Surfer fans.

So?

Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Verse speculation by Surfer fans.

So? Dude, your speculating what would ah, could ah, while others are showing what happened. And surfer holds back as well for most of his fights so you can't argue cable will put him down especially since given Norrins character, he would hold back against a guy he thought had nobility.

Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Verse speculation by Surfer fans.

So?
It's not speculation as Surfer did own Cable.........

Originally posted by Skeets
It's not speculation as Surfer did own Cable.........


I'm talking about the speculation that Cable couldn't do what I said....

Not the outcome of the fight...

Buddy, read some of SS comics. Then compare that to this Cable deapools issue, you probably understand what we are talking about in terms SS totally outclassing Cable in terms of power.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Sinc surfer has no blood or internal organs how would each other fair against each other.

Is this thread meant to be funny?

Originally posted by Blair Wind
here:
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p268ua.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p274yb.jpg
http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p287nj.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p299vn.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p306bc.jpg
http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p317lr.jpg


more of his showings. Apperantly he is physically in two places at once:
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever5p087lm.jpg
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever5p093pq.jpg


explained later that he can become a part of...everything. Heres the scans:
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever5p192kj.jpg
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever5p208wl.jpg
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever5p217vf.jpg
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever5p227kd.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p328ro.jpg
http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p332jg.jpg

the star design looks like the same one as when the ship goes kabloowie and Iceman comes back:
http://img347.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever6p231pp.jpg

the scans of him freezing stranger i've seen and said are pretty impressive. not sure about the whole 'freezing eyebeams' thing though . . . and i'm still not convinced he could have kept him frozen without being present. what's the greatest range bobby has extended his powers over?

as for the 2 places at once -- i'm not sure about that either. why couldn't jean have simply brought him -- or a 'telepathic version' of him -- to the location? the appearance of that little phoenix really throws that scene out of whack and makes me think it was jean's doing, rather than bobby's. unless i've missed something altogether . . .

about his 'being part of everything'. he does seem to be able to perceive things through the extension of his power but that's different than some of what i've heard proposed. being able to control something, or having a sense of extended perception THROUGH/VIA something is different from being able to cast your full consciousness into it. at least it seems that way to me. i'll try and explain:

let's assume ss DOES have a form of blood that contains water, and let's assume for the purpose of this example that bobby can control it. so ss attacks with a blast, sees bobby is 'destroyed' and thinks the battle is over. he doesn't know (though likely would due to cosmic awareness) that bobby is still 'alive', so using ss's pause, he attacks ss's blood and starts to freeze it.

now, he could do this in 1 of 2 ways -- he could attack and freeze itwhile maintaining a vapor form or by re-solidifying into his more natural, hard-ice shape, OR, by the reasoning of some, he could simply inhabit the ss's body, casting his consciousness straight into the ss. now i see the former being an option, but the latter . . . i've never seen him do something like that.

let's carry the example a bit further -- bobby has reformed OUTSIDE the ss to keep up the attack (which seems the more natural and realistic option to me). now even though he has water in his blood, ss could likely resist the pain long enough to blast into space at multiples of c. could bobby STILL control from inter-planetary distances? i'd say no, because i've never seen that range from him. so ss would be freeze of his influence, attack again at multiples of c, transuting him this time then casting the tranmuted molecules all over the universe or through multiple dimensions. i doubt bobby could reform from that and ss wins. (i actually put forth a similar tactic for superman in that thread.)

NOW . . . (sorry, this is a bit gs-like . . . ) IF bobby COULD cast his consciousness into ss, then even IF ss blasted away at multiples of light it wouldn't save him because bobby would actually be residing WITHIN ss, in his blood so he could conceiveably continue the attack and freeze ss and effectively beat him. (yes, i know ss would have options here -- PLAY ALONG! ) of course THEN what would bobby do? in space, no water readily available unless he can again cast his consciousness at interplanetary distances. but this situation seems . . . very unlikely to me because i've not seen him do anything like this.

i guess that's what i was trying to say when i said perceiving things in an extended maner through use of his powers is one thing. doing something of the sort that i described above is, imo, something else.

I'm a big time Iceman advocate (see the Iceman vs. Superman thread), but I really see no conclusive, or conceivable, manner for him to defeat the Surfer, unlike Supes. It's the nuanced matter/energy capabilities Surfer brings to the table in combination with his speed and cosmic awareness that makes this a completely different ballgame.

Total mismatch. The do look alike, though.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Total mismatch. The do look alike, though. Iceman has become a god around here CC.

Long time no see.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Iceman has become a god around here CC.

Long time no see.
Did ya miss me?

I know. All X-Men are gods.

Hes come pretty far from snowball throwing joker.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Hes come pretty far from snowball throwing joker.





Are you Juggernaut74?

I guess Ill throw in my 2 cents$. Not even a match. Surfer would take him apart in no time.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Did ya miss me?

I know. All X-Men are gods.
no but the omega level mutants are god like but i say silversurfer wins

surefr would blast him back to iceland.

Originally posted by branhole
surefr would blast him back to iceland.
yep but its hard to kill iceman since he can exist as any frm f water imean ice fog water and even as pure energy

Dont you mean Greenland.

im just saying about the name. but its backwards. greeneland should be iceland and vise versa

Iceman at his full potential could even surpass G-A-L-A-C-T-U-SSSSSSS
and T-Y-R-A-N-T combined.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
yep but its hard to kill iceman since he can exist as any frm f water imean ice fog water and even as pure energy

Surfer can easily electrolyze every water molecule on earth.

Originally posted by Rols
Iceman at his full potential could even surpass G-A-L-A-C-T-U-SSSSSSS
and T-Y-R-A-N-T combined.
Probably so.

not if galactus destroyes the planet hes on

SS can do these, take the out dna that make Bobby a mutant.http://www.silver-surfer.us/Origina...-31_h66pony.jpg http://http://www.silver-surfer.us/Origina...-31_h66pony.jpg

Originally posted by Rols
SS can do these, take the out dna that make Bobby a mutant.http://www.silver-surfer.us/Origina...-31_h66pony.jpg
When Bobby is in ice form he doesn't have DNA though.

Originally posted by superbatman86
When Bobby is in ice form he doesn't have DNA though.

True.

His still a human isnt he. Even in ice form hes still got molecules which SS can manipulate.

Being Sarcastic Buddy.

Originally posted by Rols
His still a human isnt he. Even in ice form hes still got molecules which SS can manipulate.
He never was a human.

From what Ive read on several forums people are gonna start saying the x-men can start taking out eternity or the beyonder

Im talkin about Bobby when transformed into iceman, still contains human organs, dna's, cells, molecules that SS can manipulate with the used of PC.

Originally posted by Rols
Im talkin about Bobby when transformed into iceman, still contains human organs, dna's, cells, molecules that SS can manipulate with the used of PC.

Actually he has mutant organs, but I see what you're getting at.

Bobby doesn't have any internal organs when he is solid ice.

It doesn't matter though. Surfer could manipulate his water molecules.

Iceman is an elemental is he not? So he doesn't have any organs in ice form.

Originally posted by Validus
Iceman is an elemental is he not? So he doesn't have any organs in ice form.
Regardless, Surfer could rearrange his very atomic structure.

Can Iceman exist as OH + H? How about Neon gas?

When will the madness stop?

I remember an issue of Uncanny X-men, when Iceman had a hole in his stomach and couldnt turn back to plain old Bobby fearing what would happen to his human body. Is he able to heal serious wound now when reverting back to his normal body? Does he revert back to his normal body when is hit unconsious?

Originally posted by superbatman86
When Bobby is in ice form he doesn't have DNA though.

are you stating a fact, or an opinion here. i was wondering about that myself. if he DOES have dna in his moisture forms (why wouldn't he -- his powers DO stem from his mutant dna . . .) then superman's microscopic vision would perceive him even in the form of moisture.

seriously -- i don't know if he DOES retain his dna. is this a proven fact?

oh, and ill, did you read the post i submited in the supes/iceman thread? be curious (since you battled so long and hard on that thread) to hear what you thought.

Iceman is not beating Superman, and he certainly isnt beating SS.

Mutants get their special abilities from excess dna, So even in ice form Bobby should still retain his dna cause that is where there powers is base from witout it there ordinary human.

Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
If someone has ultimate and unlimited potential the descend human comprehension and go into abstract territory.


In the Cable Vs Surfer fight Cable could have killed Surfer.

I don't see why Iceman can't either.

Well thats just silly

Originally posted by Mr. Universe
Iceman is not beating Superman, and he certainly isnt beating SS.
omega level iceman could easily beat superman

Originally posted by Rols
Mutants get their special abilities from excess dna, So even in ice form Bobby should still retain his dna cause that is where there powers is base from witout it there ordinary human.

that's what i was thinking . . .

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
omega level iceman could easily beat superman ice man is that powerful now?

wow lol X-men they won't stop

I kinda doubt that Iceman has dna while in ice form. Its just regular water/ice. If you were to take off a chunk of Iceman then wait for it to melt, it would be plain h2o.

In his early Iceman stages where he only had the ice covering, you would be able to get some of his dna by drilling into his body and reaching his skin. Since hes been able to transform completely into ice, thats exactly what he is. Frozen water.