Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Four members of the Avengers vs Super Girl & Boy

Avengers
Iron-Man- http://www.marveldirectory.com/misc/ironmanmarkvi.htm

Wonder Man- http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/w/wonderman.htm

Hercules- http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/h/hercules.htm

Sub Mariner/Fully Drenched- http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/s/submariner.htm

vs

Superman- http://www.dcdatabaseproject.com/wiki/index.php/Superman

Captain Marvel- http://www.dcdatabaseproject.com/wiki/index.php/Captain_Marvel

avengers

ooops

Avengers.

I say the duo 7/10. Speed and surprisingly variety is on their side.

I say that Immortal Hercules & Sub Mariner beats Superman easy and that leaves Iron Man and Wonder Man going against and if you want to talk about versatility Iron Man has cool weapon he is pretty fast and very smart.

Weapon Sub-Systems:
Offensive:
Primary: Repulsor Rays
Description: Pulsed, laser-path guided, medium-density plasma projectors.
Range: 40 feet
Limits: The suit palm blasters are able to fire for very short periods of time. The duty cycle allows for a 25% cooling period.
Secondary: Disruptor Beam
Description: Wide spectrum electromagnetic and gravitic beam which are swept and pulsed within certain frequency ranges in order to disrupt as many functions of as many types of electromechanical devices as possible
Range: About 25 to 100 feet
Limits: Little effect on shielded devices.
Note: Some effect on living things possible through low frequency gravitic pulsing which can upset equilibrium, thalamic rate, nervous system and cardiovascular system, depending on range

Supes and Marvel are highly invulnerable, can fly, have energy attacks (Heat Vision and Magic Electric Bolts), uber fast and, at the very least, stronger than 3 of the 4 Avengers. The Avengers may not know what hit them until it was over. Supes and Marvel 8/10.

Immortal hercules would be able to take that and Iron Man with his Genius was able to beat Terrax who Durability & Stamina rival if not surpass Superman & Captain marvels. Godlike for both Stamina and Reflexes. and he was able to fly at near lightspeed.

Originally posted by golem370
Immortal hercules would be able to take that and Iron Man with his Genius was able to beat Terrax who Durability & Stamina rival if not surpass Superman & Captain marvels. Godlike for both Stamina and Reflexes. and he was able to fly at near lightspeed.
Immortal Hercules "taking anything" is your opinion. Marvel has Immortal Herc's attributes and much more. You never stated which armor Stark would be using and, again, that's your opinion. Superman has enough feats under his belt to trump anything Stark, Herc or Wonderman have done and Marvel had been shown to be Superman's equal on many occasions.
Superman and Marvel would keep this fight in the air and take down Ironman and Wonderman with superior speed, strength and their energy attacks. Herc and Namor would not be able to touch the DC team.

Difficult to say, the Marvel heavys(Herc and Namor) are both landlocked, but would give Supes or Marvel a good fight in a brawl
Ill go with Supes and Marvel 6/10

Since Marvel and Supes have a huge speed advantage, I say that they take this one.

Superman and Marvel win at least 8/10, if not, 9/10.

Originally posted by The Fake Macoy
Since Marvel and Supes have a huge speed advantage, I say that they take this one.

Same here. Once again the speed discrepancy that exists between the top tier DC and Marvel characters was not addressed and thus I see this as another victory for DC.

Originally posted by badabing
Supes and Marvel are highly invulnerable, can fly, have energy attacks (Heat Vision and Magic Electric Bolts), uber fast and, at the very least, stronger than 3 of the 4 Avengers. The Avengers may not know what hit them until it was over. Supes and Marvel 8/10.

What he said.

Originally posted by badabing
Immortal Hercules "taking anything" is your opinion. Marvel has Immortal Herc's attributes and much more. You never stated which armor Stark would be using and, again, that's your opinion. Superman has enough feats under his belt to trump anything Stark, Herc or Wonderman have done and Marvel had been shown to be Superman's equal on many occasions.
Superman and Marvel would keep this fight in the air and take down Ironman and Wonderman with superior speed, strength and their energy attacks. Herc and Namor would not be able to touch the DC team.


I believe it was his one

Golem, I don't have the energy for this now because I'm worn out from the Thor vs Hulk thread. You have brought some good points but so did I. I'll stick with my original opinion but concede it would be team DC 7/10 because of your valid points.

All I am saying is that Hercules has the strength stamina and Durability and fighting ability to beat Superman or Captain Marvel. He does have superhuman agility and reflexes.

I said Namor was fully drenched thought

Namor feats http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Feat_List_of_the_Sub-Mariner

Superman and Marvel would keep this fight in the air and take down Ironman and Wonderman with superior speed, strength and their energy attacks. Herc and Namor would not be able to touch the DC team.

Maybe but Hercules has beat Godzilla

Originally posted by golem370
Maybe but Hercules has beat Godzilla
That's true. I forgot about that.

Cap Marvel and Supes take this majority of the time.

Didn't he even beat Terminus

"Superman has enough feats under his belt to trump anything Stark, Herc or Wonderman have done and Marvel had been shown to be Superman's equal on many occasions"


To thrump -anything- all the others have done?

Bullocks. Herc has help shut down a dimensional gateway with fists only. Wman together with IM and two others have embraced a milion(s) worth of an island that was trown at them. IM has put down Herc and Hulk on separate ocassions by pulling a powerup stunt. And thats classic IM. Not the current extremis version that defeated guys that had superspeed iirc.

Heck both Herc and Wman had confrontations where it was stated they wer doing planetary level force.

Saying Superman and Marvel feats thrump anything these guys have done is wrong in all accounts.



_ _ _




"Superman and Marvel would keep this fight in the air and take down Ironman and Wonderman with superior speed, strength and their energy attacks. Herc and Namor would not be able to touch the DC team"


The way i see in comics, the characters always want to trade punches. That makes any speedster or flyer vulnerable to some tag or attacks from the opponent.



_ _ _




" Superman and Marvel win at least 8/10, if not, 9/10."


Dont see it. Speed or no speed they will have to work hard to knock out at least Wman and Herc. Namor does have exploited weakness so hes more vulnerable but they dont have the strenght to be easy on him.

It will come down to fists and things will complicate there.

superman and captain marvel dont have the strength? are you high, these two in strength are nearly limitless, or limitless, man stop talking bla bla bla

To knock out a top tier character easily?

I must be really high. Sorry, you are absolutly right. I mean just look at his record against WW who physically speaking isent on his tier. How many times has she been knocked out by the man?

dots

How many times, again?

And in case your wondering, im eloquentily showing how good your reading ability is:

"Namor does have exploited weakness so hes more vulnerable but they dont have the strenght to be -easy- on him"

Key word : e a s y

Originally posted by olympian
"Superman has enough feats under his belt to trump anything Stark, Herc or Wonderman have done and Marvel had been shown to be Superman's equal on many occasions"


To thrump -anything- all the others have done?

Bullocks. Herc has help shut down a dimensional gateway with fists only. Wman together with IM and two others have embraced a milion(s) worth of an island that was trown at them. IM has put down Herc and Hulk on separate ocassions by pulling a powerup stunt. And thats classic IM. Not the current extremis version that defeated guys that had superspeed iirc.

Heck both Herc and Wman had confrontations where it was stated they wer doing planetary level force.

Saying Superman and Marvel feats thrump anything these guys have done is wrong in all accounts.



_ _ _




"Superman and Marvel would keep this fight in the air and take down Ironman and Wonderman with superior speed, strength and their energy attacks. Herc and Namor would not be able to touch the DC team"


The way i see in comics, the characters always want to trade punches. That makes any speedster or flyer vulnerable to some tag or attacks from the opponent.



_ _ _




" Superman and Marvel win at least 8/10, if not, 9/10."


Dont see it. Speed or no speed they will have to work hard to knock out at least Wman and Herc. Namor does have exploited weakness so hes more vulnerable but they dont have the strenght to be easy on him.

It will come down to fists and things will complicate there.
The rules of the forum state that all characters will be fighting with the best of their abilities. That means a lot of speed, flying and energy attacks on the Marvel team. If you want to know the reason Herc can't beat Supes or Marvel, check the Hulk vs Supes thread. I said "trump" not "thrump".

Originally posted by olympian
"Superman has enough feats under his belt to trump anything Stark, Herc or Wonderman have done and Marvel had been shown to be Superman's equal on many occasions"


To thrump -anything- all the others have done?

Bullocks. Herc has help shut down a dimensional gateway with fists only. Wman together with IM and two others have embraced a milion(s) worth of an island that was trown at them. IM has put down Herc and Hulk on separate ocassions by pulling a powerup stunt. And thats classic IM. Not the current extremis version that defeated guys that had superspeed iirc.

Heck both Herc and Wman had confrontations where it was stated they wer doing planetary level force.

Saying Superman and Marvel feats thrump anything these guys have done is wrong in all accounts.



_ _ _




"Superman and Marvel would keep this fight in the air and take down Ironman and Wonderman with superior speed, strength and their energy attacks. Herc and Namor would not be able to touch the DC team"


The way i see in comics, the characters always want to trade punches. That makes any speedster or flyer vulnerable to some tag or attacks from the opponent.



_ _ _




" Superman and Marvel win at least 8/10, if not, 9/10."


Dont see it. Speed or no speed they will have to work hard to knock out at least Wman and Herc. Namor does have exploited weakness so hes more vulnerable but they dont have the strenght to be easy on him.

It will come down to fists and things will complicate there.

Yes, I understand all of that. Hercules, Wonder Man, and Namor are all very strong and very durable. However they lack the necessary speed and versatility to compete with these guys. Wonder Man can fly, but has nothing on Supes and Marvel's speed level. They fly at the speed of light, I haven't ever seen Wonder Man do that. Hercules's powers are virtually useless here because all he has are super strength and durability. Cap Marvel and Superman have delt with their fare share of brutes before. I doubt Hercules would present a problem to them. Namor is the weaklink here. He's nowhere near as strong and is fast, granted, but isn't any where near as fast as they are. One good shazam lightning bolt would put him down. Now, Ironman is basically the only problem presented to the two. His suit grants him amazing versatility and strength. There is still one major problem that he's going to have with them, just like everybody else and that is their SPEED! Ironman is just as versatile as CM and SM, but he's extremely slow when in comparrison to the two. Besides, his energy projection isn't as strong as theirs is. Hercules, Namor, and Wonder Man are basically non-factors in this fight because of their lack of versatility. Ironman isn't strong or fast enough. So as I was saying before, you can't compare two of the most versatile, strong, and fast characters to these guys. Captain Marvel and Superman win this fight 8-9/10.

When superman goes insane every once in a while (the writers love for him to go insane or have somone take control of his mind, esp as of late) he doesn't have to much of a problem almost KILLING wonder woman on two or three occasions. Iron Man doesn't impress me much in this fight vs. Supes AND Capt. Marvel. As others have stated the other two are landlocked and I think you guys are understimating supes and Marvels energy beams. Also, Superman holds back alot, we only see his true power on very rare occasions. But this is just my opinion. Supes and Marvel 8/10

"The rules of the forum state that all characters will be fighting with the best of their abilities. That means a lot of speed, flying and energy attacks on the Marvel team. If you want to know the reason Herc can't beat Supes or Marvel, check the Hulk vs Supes thread."


So even considering Superman hardly uses speedblitz attacks and skill moves we have to pretend that they are going to?

Why in the same manner we dont consider that Herc has tagged speedsters then and that strength by strength none of the DC team is really above?



- - -



" Yes, I understand all of that. Hercules, Wonder Man, and Namor are all very strong and very durable. However they lack the necessary speed and versatility to compete with these guys. Wonder Man can fly, but has nothing on Supes and Marvel's speed level. They fly at the speed of light, I haven't ever seen Wonder Man do "


Three of the Avengers can fly. IM has the versability. WMan is the most durable here outside of Marvel. Wman during his solo series showed speed on the level of stating that everything to him moved at slow motion.

And Superman as well as Marvel hardly use ftls. How is consistence applying an ability they hardly use as " theyll just fly faster than ligth and the figth is over " even when we know they never do that at first.

Isent that almost as saying " flier x gets ground based character y into the sun and the figth is over"? They can do that after all, cant they.



- - -



"Hercules's powers are virtually useless here because all he has are super strength and durability. Cap Marvel and Superman have delt with their fare share of brutes before. I doubt Hercules would present a problem to them"


And Herc has dealt with fliers before and put them down. So has Hulk. Theres a reason why it isent considered an instant win just because you happen to fly. An advantage isent a victory.

Now logically Herc one on one with either of this DC crew will lose the majority. Why? Because he isent versatible enough to take most of the figths. But as you notice i dont say hes going to lose all, even if its all powers used. No top tier does.

That being said you most all been asking to yourselfs " but thats what we are saying! He wont be able to beat either alone for the majoriy, let alone two! Then why are you going over this Olympian!"

The answer is: backup. Top tier backup. They wont give the same attention to all at the same time. That leaves them with the guard down.

And in that case if it gets h2h theres no way i give either of the DC team the majority over this guy.



- - -



"Namor is the weaklink here. He's nowhere near as strong and is fast, granted, but isn't any where near as fast as they are"


Exactly what i described with a post above. It isent possible that a top tier character is "nowhere near as strong" as another top tier in relation. No way.

And never one that has beaten Hulk and put BRB down. This misconception needs to be cleared out. Even Rhino who is below with considerable leap of the top tier range has punched someone out of orbit.



- - -



"One good shazam lightning bolt would put him down"


Namor is obviously the most vulnerable here because of the heat. However DarkCrawler can tell if he has taken these kind of attacks or not. I need to do another check to his respect thread.



- - -



"Ironman is just as versatile as CM and SM, but he's extremely slow when in comparrison to the two. Besides, his energy projection isn't as strong as theirs is."


IM nowadays has the speed issue covered for the most part.



- - -



"Hercules, Namor, and Wonder Man are basically non-factors in this fight because of their lack of versatility"



What an exageration of monumental proportions.




- - -




"When superman goes insane every once in a while (the writers love for him to go insane or have somone take control of his mind, esp as of late) he doesn't have to much of a problem almost KILLING wonder woman on two or three occasions."


And yet on those two ocassions he was out to kill her, he failed. Cleary failed.

And Superman isent the only who is allowed to get insane. Every character is more battle savy when its not holding back.



- - -



"two are landlocked and I think you guys are understimating supes and Marvels energy beams"


The only landlock here its Herc. And he doesnt have that much problems with fliers. At least from his record.

Underestimating Supes energy beams? Not really. Thor took it at close range without having Mjolnir to deflect it. Herc is on his range of durabilty. In some extreme cases, above.

WMan is more durable than either on average. Namor would be the only one with problems. IM probably can take it too, the man has gone against SS in the past after all.

Magic ligthing? Not an instant ko either save for Namor. Herc has taken a magic ligthing attack from a Thor that was on to kill him and was still up. In fact the attack itself was boosted by Christal in order to also hit Thor itself, and save him from the mind control.

If i belived this was easy just because the others are more versatible than at least one Avenger here, id go with it.

But i dont.

*sigh* I didn't want to do this, but i have to.

Superman spins the earth Backwards killing the entire Avenger teams parents.

Herc helds the Earth and stops the spinning.

What? You didnt see that one coming?

Originally posted by olympian
"The rules of the forum state that all characters will be fighting with the best of their abilities. That means a lot of speed, flying and energy attacks on the Marvel team. If you want to know the reason Herc can't beat Supes or Marvel, check the Hulk vs Supes thread."


So even considering Superman hardly uses speedblitz attacks and skill moves we have to pretend that they are going to?

Why in the same manner we dont consider that Herc has tagged speedsters then and that strength by strength none of the DC team is really above?



- - -



" Yes, I understand all of that. Hercules, Wonder Man, and Namor are all very strong and very durable. However they lack the necessary speed and versatility to compete with these guys. Wonder Man can fly, but has nothing on Supes and Marvel's speed level. They fly at the speed of light, I haven't ever seen Wonder Man do "


Three of the Avengers can fly. IM has the versability. WMan is the most durable here outside of Marvel. Wman during his solo series showed speed on the level of stating that everything to him moved at slow motion.

And Superman as well as Marvel hardly use ftls. How is consistence applying an ability they hardly use as " theyll just fly faster than ligth and the figth is over " even when we know they never do that at first.

Isent that almost as saying " flier x gets ground based character y into the sun and the figth is over"? They can do that after all, cant they.



- - -



"Hercules's powers are virtually useless here because all he has are super strength and durability. Cap Marvel and Superman have delt with their fare share of brutes before. I doubt Hercules would present a problem to them"


And Herc has dealt with fliers before and put them down. So has Hulk. Theres a reason why it isent considered an instant win just because you happen to fly. An advantage isent a victory.

Now logically Herc one on one with either of this DC crew will lose the majority. Why? Because he isent versatible enough to take most of the figths. But as you notice i dont say hes going to lose all, even if its all powers used. No top tier does.

That being said you most all been asking to yourselfs " but thats what we are saying! He wont be able to beat either alone for the majoriy, let alone two! Then why are you going over this Olympian!"

The answer is: backup. Top tier backup. They wont give the same attention to all at the same time. That leaves them with the guard down.

And in that case if it gets h2h theres no way i give either of the DC team the majority over this guy.



- - -



"Namor is the weaklink here. He's nowhere near as strong and is fast, granted, but isn't any where near as fast as they are"


Exactly what i described with a post above. It isent possible that a top tier character is "nowhere near as strong" as another top tier in relation. No way.

And never one that has beaten Hulk and put BRB down. This misconception needs to be cleared out. Even Rhino who is below with considerable leap of the top tier range has punched someone out of orbit.



- - -



"One good shazam lightning bolt would put him down"


Namor is obviously the most vulnerable here because of the heat. However DarkCrawler can tell if he has taken these kind of attacks or not. I need to do another check to his respect thread.



- - -



"Ironman is just as versatile as CM and SM, but he's extremely slow when in comparrison to the two. Besides, his energy projection isn't as strong as theirs is."


IM nowadays has the speed issue covered for the most part.



- - -



"Hercules, Namor, and Wonder Man are basically non-factors in this fight because of their lack of versatility"



What an exageration of monumental proportions.




- - -




"When superman goes insane every once in a while (the writers love for him to go insane or have somone take control of his mind, esp as of late) he doesn't have to much of a problem almost KILLING wonder woman on two or three occasions."


And yet on those two ocassions he was out to kill her, he failed. Cleary failed.

And Superman isent the only who is allowed to get insane. Every character is more battle savy when its not holding back.



- - -



"two are landlocked and I think you guys are understimating supes and Marvels energy beams"


The only landlock here its Herc. And he doesnt have that much problems with fliers. At least from his record.

Underestimating Supes energy beams? Not really. Thor took it at close range without having Mjolnir to deflect it. Herc is on his range of durabilty. In some extreme cases, above.

WMan is more durable than either on average. Namor would be the only one with problems. IM probably can take it too, the man has gone against SS in the past after all.

Magic ligthing? Not an instant ko either save for Namor. Herc has taken a magic ligthing attack from a Thor that was on to kill him and was still up. In fact the attack itself was boosted by Christal in order to also hit Thor itself, and save him from the mind control.

Take my word on it. If i belived this was easy just because the others are more versatible than at least one Avenger here, id go with it.

But i dont belive.

Yeah, if these guys go hand to hand against Hercules, they would probably lose. However, if Superman utilizes his fighting speed, Hercules would lose horribly. Like this:

http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanfightingathighspeeds7l.jpg

I think you are severly underestimating Superman's speed advantage over other opponents. It's really incredible. Here he is owning a bunch of powerful characters that are more powerful than the line-up in the thread.

http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermangoingallout6pd.jpg
http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermangoingallout29qk.jpg

And here:

http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermangoingallout32ft.jpg

He's too versatile for this team to handle. Same goes for Captain Marvel.

Here's Superman vibrating his body invisible.

http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermangoininvisible6iv.jpg

Here he is vibrating through Doomsday's lightning/fire breath.

http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanintangible8wa.jpg

So as I was saying, Hercules, Namor, and Wonder Man mean absolutely nothing in this fight. Superman and CM are more versatile than these guys could ever dream of being. And you comparing WM's speed to these two is laughable.

You're also underestimating Superman's fighting ability. Here he is taking Mongul to school with nothing but pure h2h.

http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanfightingmongul5tx.jpg
http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanfightingmongul24sr.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanfightingmongul33lm.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanfightingmongul43lk.jpg

So as I hope you can see, Wonder Man, Namor, and Hercules are WAY too uni-dimensional to ever hope to compete with Supes and Captain Marvel. Ironman would be the biggest threat against SM and CM, but he would get taken down. Superman and Captain Marvel win this 8-9/10.

WOW...great post. I agree.

Can someone explain to me how Woder Man is considered more durable than Superman?

People are forgetting that Namor can fly too.


That said, Superman and Captain Marvel still stomp them, for reasons that have already been stated.

"Yeah, if these guys go hand to hand against Hercules, they would probably lose. However, if Superman utilizes his fighting speed, Hercules would lose horribly. Like this:"


The same Imperiex Probes that BL has destroyed. Theyr record isent that high all things considered. Hypollita did well too, rigth? Like other heroes off panel.



- - -




"Can someone explain to me how Woder Man is considered more durable than Superman?"


He is made of energy. Ionic energy now. He doesnt need to breath for example. Durability its his greatest asset.




- - -




"I think you are severly underestimating Superman's speed advantage over other opponents. It's really incredible. Here he is owning a bunch of powerful characters that are more powerful than the line-up in the thread."


If those wer the only scans of the whole figth id migth get -that-impressed. As things went down, im not. None of them wer knocked out or beaten despise the speed advantage.

Its an advantage, not a victory mark.

About more powerful, you have at least three guys that arent above or equal with this team. Starfire, BL and Katana. In fact they are below.




- - -




" as I was saying, Hercules, Namor, and Wonder Man mean absolutely nothing in this fight. Superman and CM are more versatile than these guys could ever dream of being. And you comparing WM's speed to these two is laughable."


Rigth. Its not like at least two of the Avengers dont have actually superspeed now.

Lets see what its the view of IM powerset now:

http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?rpl=060526141724

and more:

http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?trd=060501140157&q=iron%20man

Now scroll below the page and see his recent figth with Graviton:

http://www.superherochat.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=110717&highlight=extremis+iron+man

The way IM is using his powers as of late its insane. About speed his reaction time has improved heaps. You have Wman also who is of course fast and pretty much sees stuff in slow motion due to that same speed. That was during his late solo series.

You act like Superman can speedblitz faster than ligth or being the only one here who can pull that one up.




- - -




"You're also underestimating Superman's fighting ability. Here he is taking Mongul to school with nothing but pure h2h."


What h2h skill did he showed there? Grabbing Monguls punch? H2h is what he did when he was empersonating Hercules during the "exile" period against Monguls father.

And while hes good, hes not the skillest of the uber fellas. WW is above. Herc is above. Thor is above. Black Bolt is above. Warlock is above.




- - -




"Superman and Captain Marvel win this 8-9/10"


You know my opinion. No way they take these four as much as that. And neither easily.

Originally posted by olympian
"Yeah, if these guys go hand to hand against Hercules, they would probably lose. However, if Superman utilizes his fighting speed, Hercules would lose horribly. Like this:"


The same Imperiex Probes that BL has destroyed. Theyr record isent that high all things considered. Hypollita did well too, rigth?


- - -


"Can someone explain to me how Woder Man is considered more durable than Superman?"


Hes made of energy. Ionic energy now. He doesnt need to breath or other stuff like that.


- - -



"I think you are severly underestimating Superman's speed advantage over other opponents. It's really incredible. Here he is owning a bunch of powerful characters that are more powerful than the line-up in the thread."


If those wer the only scans of the whole figth id migth get -that-impressed. As things went down, im not. None of them wer knocked out or beaten despise the speed advantage.

Its an advantage, not a victory mark.

About more powerful, you have at least three guys that arent above or equal with this team. Starfire, BL and Katana. In fact they are below.


- - -


" as I was saying, Hercules, Namor, and Wonder Man mean absolutely nothing in this fight. Superman and CM are more versatile than these guys could ever dream of being. And you comparing WM's speed to these two is laughable."


Rigth. Its not like at least two of the Avengers have actually superspeed now.

Lets see what its the view of IM powerset now:

http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?rpl=060526141724

and more:

http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?trd=060501140157&q=iron%20man

Now scroll below the page and see his recent figth with Graviton:

http://www.superherochat.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=110717&highlight=extremis+iron+man

The way IM is using his powers as of late its insane. About speed his reaction time has improved heaps. You have Wman also who is of course fast and pretty much sees stuff in slow motion due to that same speed. That was before he became ionic.

You act like Superman can speedblitz faster than ligth or being the only one here who can pull that one up.



- - -



"You're also underestimating Superman's fighting ability. Here he is taking Mongul to school with nothing but pure h2h."


What h2h skill did he showed there? Grabbing Monguls punch? H2h is what he did when he was empersonating Hercules during the "exile" period against Monguls father.



- - -



"Superman and Captain Marvel win this 8-9/10"



You know my opinion. No way they take these four as much as that. And neither easily.

Yeah, maybe I was a bit overzealous with the 8-9/10, but they would still take the majority. I have acknowledged that Ironman would be the biggest threat, but he would still go down. And don't give me the whole "the fight wasn't very impressive" speach. Batman and Superman straight up BEAT all those guys convincingly. These guys don't have the necessary abilities to take these two down, at least not for the majority. Superman's senses would mean that he would never get touched. This pic demonstrates his senses as well as his speed.

http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ssenses3vq.jpg

You still haven't told me how the Marvel four could deal with Superman vibrating his molecules intangible or invisible. This would mean that he would never get touched. Face it, the team is severly lacking in the versatility department save Ironman. The Marvel team would lose 7/10.

"And don't give me the whole "the fight wasn't very impressive" speach. Batman and Superman straight up BEAT all those guys convincingly."


I have to give that speech because they werent neither beaten or out. What more you want me to say? What defeats you saw there exactly when everyone after the bleezing attack by Superman still got up without severe injuries save Katana whos merely human.



- - -



"You still haven't told me how the Marvel four could deal with Superman vibrating his molecules intangible or invisible"


Heat residual trace, maybe.

Nonetheless they will know hes around when he starts punching. and bideness will start to pick up.

Originally posted by olympian
"And don't give me the whole "the fight wasn't very impressive" speach. Batman and Superman straight up BEAT all those guys convincingly."


I have to give that speech because they werent neither beaten or out. What more you want me to say? What defeats you saw there exactly when everyone after the bleezing attack by Superman still got up without severe injuries save Katana whos merely human.



- - -



"You still haven't told me how the Marvel four could deal with Superman vibrating his molecules intangible or invisible"


How about heat residual trace.

For Ironman, that's fine, but what about everybody else? And that would only be affective for Superman's invisibilty. What about his intangibility? He could easily walk right through any of their attacks.

add thor on to the list and avengers knock there asses out

"For Ironman, that's fine, but what about everybody else?"


They are working as a team here. They only need one that can tell where he is.

As less versatible as they are they have options to attack the area where the opponent albeigh invisible is. Thunderclaps and energy attacks being two.



- - -



"And that would only be affective for Superman's invisibilty. What about his intangibility? He could easily walk right through any of their attacks."


Wouldnt he need to go tangible in order to try to take them out.

But enligth me. How about examples of his intagibility?



- - -



"add thor on to the list and avengers knock there asses out"


That would be a mismatch.

Originally posted by olympian
"For Ironman, that's fine, but what about everybody else?"


They are working as a team here. They only need one that can tell where he is.

As as less versatible they are they have options to attack the area where the opponent albeigh invisible is. Thunderclaps and energy attacks being two.


- - -


"And that would only be affective for Superman's invisibilty. What about his intangibility? He could easily walk right through any of their attacks."


Wouldnt he need to go tangible in order to try to take them out.

But enligth me. How about examples of his intagibility?

Here he is vibrating his body through Doomsday's lightning/fire breath.

bump

"Here he is vibrating his body through Doomsday's lightning/fire breath"


The way i see that scan only shows him moving faster in order to not get hit.

When i think of intangibility, i think of MM|Vision type...

Since theres the ideia that Herc will be extremely innefectual here, ill trow some fire to the debate:

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6908/08630tiorny19jl.jpg

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1199/08692tiorny30lb.jpg

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2552/08951whil41ss.jpg

(The vortex was created by a gent called Beyonder btw).


And some more:

http://www.superherochat.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=107090

Originally posted by olympian
"Here he is vibrating his body through Doomsday's lightning/fire breath"


The way i see that scan only shows him moving faster in order to not get hit.

When i think of intangibility, i think of MM|Vision type...

Since theres the ideia that Herc will be extremely innefectual here, ill trow some fire to the debate:

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6908/08630tiorny19jl.jpg

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1199/08692tiorny30lb.jpg

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2552/08951whil41ss.jpg

(The vortex was created by a gent called Beyonder btw).


And some more:

http://www.superherochat.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=107090

Nice, Avengers still win this one.

Originally posted by olympian
"Here he is vibrating his body through Doomsday's lightning/fire breath"


The way i see that scan only shows him moving faster in order to not get hit.

When i think of intangibility, i think of MM|Vision type...

Since theres the ideia that Herc will be extremely innefectual here, ill trow some fire to the debate:

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6908/08630tiorny19jl.jpg

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1199/08692tiorny30lb.jpg

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2552/08951whil41ss.jpg

(The vortex was created by a gent called Beyonder btw).


And some more:

http://www.superherochat.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=107090

Your point is? Actually, Superman is in effect intangible due to him vibrating his molecules just like Flash. Besides, other than Ironman these Avengers aren't even close to being versatile enough to compete with Supes and Captain Marvel.

I don't think the Marvel line up is going to take it to Team DC..............MAYBE IM can pull something out to slow them down but not win, in my opinion.

"Your point is?"

They can be effective even if some are less versatible. As the scans cleary show. Example: Hurricane move? Herc alone can stop it.




- - -




"Superman is in effect intangible due to him vibrating his molecules just like Flash"


intangible
adj

1. Not able to be felt or perceived by touch.

Thesaurus: impalpable, immaterial, airy; Antonym: material.
2. Difficult to understand or for the mind to grasp.

Thesaurus: uncertain, indefinite, unsure, vague, hypothetical.
3. Said of part of a business, eg an asset: not having a solid physical existence, but having some value or worth.

noun

1. Something intangible.


Does it look with what Superman was doing there? Or rather it looks like he was vibrating faster than the opponent to not get hit.

MM or Vison being intangible wouldnt need to "speedblitz" in order to not get hit. The attack would get thro with no effect, rigth?

Originally posted by olympian
"Your point is?"

They can be effective even if some are less versatible. As the scans cleary show. Example: Hurricane move? Herc alone can stop it.




- - -




"Superman is in effect intangible due to him vibrating his molecules just like Flash"


intangible
adj

1. Not able to be felt or perceived by touch.

Thesaurus: impalpable, immaterial, airy; Antonym: material.
2. Difficult to understand or for the mind to grasp.

Thesaurus: uncertain, indefinite, unsure, vague, hypothetical.
3. Said of part of a business, eg an asset: not having a solid physical existence, but having some value or worth.

noun

1. Something intangible.


Does it look with what Superman was doing there? Or rather it looks like he was vibrating faster than the opponent to not get hit.

MM or Vison being intangible wouldnt need to "speedblitz" in order to not get hit. The attack would get thro with no effect, rigth?

I ment that the effect Superman gets out of vibrating his molecules is that he cannot be touched. You can see that when he vibrated his body right through DD's blast. He also vibrated his hand into DD's body. So it might not be called intangible formally, but he gets the same effect out of it. It's a neat trick. Anyways, super strength and super durability ain't gonna do sh*t to these two guys. It's the same reasons why Hulk could never beat Superman. Hulk is too uni-dimensional while Superman is too fast and too versatile. Same situation here.

Originally posted by batdude123
I ment that the effect Superman gets out of vibrating his molecules is that he cannot be touched. You can see that when he vibrated his body right through DD's blast. He also vibrated his hand into DD's body. So it might not be called intangible formally, but he gets the same effect out of it. It's a neat trick. Anyways, super strength and super durability ain't gonna do sh*t to these two guys. It's the same reasons why Hulk could never beat Superman. Hulk is too uni-dimensional while Superman is too fast and too versatile. Same situation here.
Amen brother. It seems that people are just nitpicking now. There is nothing wrong with losing to people that are the caliber of Superman and Captain Marvel. I have also cited the Hulk reference and it didn't help.

Originally posted by olympian
"Your point is?"

They can be effective even if some are less versatible. As the scans cleary show. Example: Hurricane move? Herc alone can stop it.




- - -




"Superman is in effect intangible due to him vibrating his molecules just like Flash"


intangible
adj

1. Not able to be felt or perceived by touch.

Thesaurus: impalpable, immaterial, airy; Antonym: material.
2. Difficult to understand or for the mind to grasp.

Thesaurus: uncertain, indefinite, unsure, vague, hypothetical.
3. Said of part of a business, eg an asset: not having a solid physical existence, but having some value or worth.

noun

1. Something intangible.


Does it look with what Superman was doing there? Or rather it looks like he was vibrating faster than the opponent to not get hit.

MM or Vison being intangible wouldnt need to "speedblitz" in order to not get hit. The attack would get thro with no effect, rigth?

Amen brother.

Techno-organic Extremis fused Iron Man is a bad ass, and he has reflexes of about half the speed of light (speed of an electron,) which is at least equal to Superman's.

Extremis Iron Man vs Superman is a good fight.

Drenched or not, Namor simply cannot comete with supes. Heat Vision, anyone?

Iron Man is the deciding factor in this fight. I'm not sure what he has in his arsenal, but if it's Extremis Iron Man, at least he doesn't have to worry about getting speedblitzed.

"So it might not be called intangible formally, but he gets the same effect out of it. It's a neat trick."


The effect migth look the same. I just want to make clear its not the actual stuff that MM and Vision do. Its sligthy different and less effecient.



- - -



"Anyways, super strength and super durability ain't gonna do sh*t to these two guys."


I just disagree. They can be battered, hurt, stunned, you name it.

Note that i said it "can" not that it will. Some Avengers sure have the durability to wisthand the duo range attacks making them able to continue theyr attacks.



- - -



"It's the same reasons why Hulk could never beat Superman. Hulk is too uni-dimensional while Superman is too fast and too versatile. Same situation here"


Thats not totally correct. Lets be honest, we have examples of both figthing and in all those hes not just trading punches.

Hulk losing a majority when Superman is using the whole of his abilities is certain. Losing every battle out of 10? No.

Example? Superman used some of his powerset against DOS DD. But it turned out to be mainly a slugfest. Even with the powers he used, Supes more often than not will lose the majority in this kind of match against Hulk.

Figthing with everything hes got and being smart about it he takes the majority.

I am a firm beliver that no one of the top tier takes full 10 out of 10 against others of the same group. By the very same reason that circunstances of battles change from one to another.

Now about your comparation, this is how it doesnt exactly work. You have people here in Hulks range of strenght and regular durability, some with more versability and speed and with backup.

Thats why i dont see it as easy and neither as dominating as 8 out of 10.

And thats my two cents.

no one cares about your two cents, you poor b@stard.

I dont care what you have to say and you dont even have two cents.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Now that is poor!

what? your gay? yea thought so

superman and captain marvel win (fact)

Crisis, thats the lamest comeback i have ever seen.

kwasny

You are officially off the game now.

And THAT is a fact.

Originally posted by olympian
"So it might not be called intangible formally, but he gets the same effect out of it. It's a neat trick."


The effect migth look the same. I just want to make clear its not the actual stuff that MM and Vision do. Its sligthy different and less effecient.



- - -



"Anyways, super strength and super durability ain't gonna do sh*t to these two guys."


I just disagree. They can be battered, hurt, stunned, you name it.

Note that i said it "can" not that it will. Some Avengers sure have the durability to wisthand the duo range attacks making them able to continue theyr attacks.



- - -



"It's the same reasons why Hulk could never beat Superman. Hulk is too uni-dimensional while Superman is too fast and too versatile. Same situation here"


Thats not totally correct. Lets be honest, we have examples of both figthing and in all those hes not just trading punches.

Hulk losing a majority when Superman is using the whole of his abilities is certain. Losing every battle out of 10? No.

Example? Superman used some of his powerset against DOS DD. But it turned out to be mainly a slugfest. Even with the powers he used, Supes more often than not will lose the majority in this kind of match against Hulk.

Figthing with everything hes got and being smart about it he takes the majority.

I am a firm beliver that no one of the top tier takes full 10 out of 10 against others of the same group. By the very same reason that circunstances of battles change from one to another.

Now about your comparation, this is how it doesnt exactly work. You have people here in Hulks range of strenght and regular durability, some with more versability and speed and with backup.

Thats why i dont see it as easy and neither as dominating as 8 out of 10.

And thats my two cents.

Are you actually putting Hulk on the same level as Superman? Well good luck to you sir, where ever you may end up in life.

Actually, all in all Superman fought like a dumbass against DD. That's right it did turn into a slugfest. If Superman would've used all his powers to the greatest degree, then he would've won that fight straight out. He did after all take down an entire army of DD clones with just his heat vision.

Hulk would LOSE to Superman straight out. Let's see: Superman is smarter, more versatile, and faster.... yeah he wins 10/10. If you don't see it that way, then you must not know much about Superman.

Superman could easily take down Namor, Wonder Man, and Hercules with his ice breath in the first few seconds of the fight. While he's doing that, Cap Marvel would be handeling Ironman. Here's Superman freezing Wonder Woman with his ice breath, so yes, it would be effective on those three and don't freakin' tell me otherwise:

http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanfreezingwonderwoman3qt.jpg

Supes could also take out the three non-versatile characters with his heat vision. His heat vision is hotter than any scientific measurements can guage. It's off the charts hot and nobody can measure the vastness of the heat.

If you think that these guys could dish out more punishment than Superman could handle, you are wrong. Superman has flown out of a double black hole before for God's sake!

He's just plain and simple way too fast for WM, Namor, and Hercules to handle. They litterally wouldn't be able to think before he swoops in and flash freezes them or burns them alive.

Captain Marvel would eventually take down Ironman too. So yes, Superman and Captain Marvel would win 8-9/10.

Supes and Marvel take this one without much trouble really.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Supes and Marvel take this one without much trouble really.
Agreed. Both have beaten better teams.

Originally posted by batdude123
Are you actually putting Hulk on the same level as Superman? Well good luck to you sir, where ever you may end up in life.

Actually, all in all Superman fought like a dumbass against DD. That's right it did turn into a slugfest. If Superman would've used all his powers to the greatest degree, then he would've won that fight straight out. He did after all take down an entire army of DD clones with just his heat vision.

Hulk would LOSE to Superman straight out. Let's see: Superman is smarter, more versatile, and faster.... yeah he wins 10/10. If you don't see it that way, then you must not know much about Superman.

Superman could easily take down Namor, Wonder Man, and Hercules with his ice breath in the first few seconds of the fight. While he's doing that, Cap Marvel would be handeling Ironman. Here's Superman freezing Wonder Woman with his ice breath, so yes, it would be effective on those three and don't freakin' tell me otherwise:

http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanfreezingwonderwoman3qt.jpg

Supes could also take out the three non-versatile characters with his heat vision. His heat vision is hotter than any scientific measurements can guage. It's off the charts hot and nobody can measure the vastness of the heat.

If you think that these guys could dish out more punishment than Superman could handle, you are wrong. Superman has flown out of a double black hole before for God's sake!

He's just plain and simple way too fast for WM, Namor, and Hercules to handle. They litterally wouldn't be able to think before he swoops in and flash freezes them or burns them alive.

Captain Marvel would eventually take down Ironman too. So yes, Superman and Captain Marvel would win 8-9/10.


Didn't help Gladiator or Hyperion being faster smarter and more versitle. They went down and so could Superman..

Originally posted by golem370
Didn't help Gladiator or Hyperion being faster smarter and more versitle. They went down and so could Superman..

And that's called jobbing my friend. It seems that when an opponent SEVERLY outclasses Hulk, they always have to have their powers dumbed down a lot in order to fight him.

Originally posted by Validus
Agreed. Both have beaten better teams. Now if Thor and Sentry was in the mix it would be a different story.

Originally posted by golem370
Didn't help Gladiator or Hyperion being faster smarter and more versitle. They went down and so could Superman.. Those characters Gladiator in particular are jobber characters at best.

Superman and Marvel are not.

Well Hulk has defeated people just as powerful as superman and Marvel he could beat them and if you think he needs there powers dump down then that makes me laugh

Originally posted by golem370
Well Hulk has defeated people just as powerful as superman and Marvel he could beat them and if you think he needs there powers dump down then that makes me laugh Well if Hulk defeated these characters they could not have been as powerful as Superman. Cause Superman and Marvel would destroy Hulk if they were written to their full power.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Well if Hulk defeated these characters they could not have been as powerful as Superman. Cause Superman and Marvel would destroy Hulk if they were written to their full power.

Agreed. It's not even a question that Superman would defeat Hulk.

No they wouldn't there isn't any thing they could do to him that he has survived.He went toe to toe with Gods wrap your mind around that Stranger,Galaxy Master and he has faced Shaper to and was able to keep him from controlling him. Go to Hulk respect thread and Marvel

Originally posted by golem370
No they wouldn't there isn't any thing they could do to him that he has survived.He went toe to toe with Gods wrap your mind around that Stranger,Galaxy Master and he has faced Shaper to and was able to keep him from controlling him. Go to Hulk respect thread and Marvel

It's called JOBBING!

The Hulk does not have the same kind of verstilaty but he has others like seeing things on a paranormal level and he has become to Xemnu's telepath and he has shown he can adapt after a while from different attacks

Thats your opinion period

Originally posted by golem370
The Hulk does not have the same kind of verstilaty but he has others like seeing things on a paranormal level and he has become to Xemnu's telepath and he has shown he can adapt after a while from different attacks
Is this a Hulk vs Superman thread or Avengers vs Superman and Captain Marvel?

Originally posted by batdude123
Superman could easily take down Namor, Wonder Man, and Hercules with his ice breath in the first few seconds of the fight. While he's doing that, Cap Marvel would be handeling Ironman. Here's Superman freezing Wonder Woman with his ice breath, so yes, it would be effective on those three and don't freakin' tell me otherwise:

http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanfreezingwonderwoman3qt.jpg
Otherwise...
Actually, WW broke out of that ice in an instant. I do believe Namor, Wonder Man, and Hercules could also break out of it with little difficulty (i think cold temperatures actually make Namor stronger).

Also, current Iron Man *might* be able to go toe-to-toe with either of these guys, but he doesn't have enough showing to confirm that just yet.

Team Marvel would still lose though. I just wanted to add in my two cents about that as well.

I originally posted this on the Superman vs. Hulk thread, so read it:

Seriously, there's no way Hulk could beat Superman. The Hulk fanboys are having trouble realizing that while Hulk is fast, yes, he only goes about 400mph when he's SUPER pissed. Superman on the other hand, can fly at 186,000 miles per second (speed of light) which is 669,600,000 miles per hour! That means that Superman is litterally 1,674,000 times faster than Hulk! Give me that advantage alone over Hulk, and I'd destroy him.

There is also the thing about Hulk being stronger than Superman. Well, yes, he has the POTENTIAL to be stronger, but it would probably take him litterally hours to get to that point. I mean, even Post-Crisis Superman is holding black holes IN THE PALM OF HIS HAND! He also is still pulling the moon out of its gravitational force. Hulk fans keep saying that when he lifted that 150 billion ton mountain, it was so cool. Well, let's compare: holding a black hole in the palm of one's hand and pulling the moon out of its gravitational force>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>lifting a 150 billion ton mountain. Superman has also taken down guys much tougher than Hulk before anyways (Darkseid, Lobo, Mongol, etc...).

Superman at full blood lusted should have little to no problems with Hulk because that would mean he would utilize his abilities to the FULLEST POTENTIAL. In bloodlusted state, I don't see the reason as to why this fight would last any longer than a couple of seconds. Superman is a guy who does not like to kill and will hold himself back in damn near every encounter. He only likes to test foe's fighting skills out before he could run the risk of killing them by going all out. Well written and with Superman using his powers to the fullest degree, he would utterly destroy Hulk with no problems at all.

Superman is also more versatile with his powers by a mile and a half. He could blast Hulk's skin off using laser vision which is incalcuably hot. While Hulk's skin I believe can withstand temperatures of up to 4000 degrees Celsius (Forgot if it was Celsius or Fahrenheit. Correct me if I'm wrong.), Superman can make his heat vision litterally go hotter than any means of scientific measurement can calculate. His heat vision has also bean shown to be able to blow up planets as well. He's also got ice breath which people usually seem to forget that he has. His ice breath is powerful enough to freeze entire oceans with ease. He even demonstrated one time when he did not even want to deal with fighting Wonder Woman, that he just froze that crap outta her and was done with it. Superman has also got a nifty little trick called vibrating his molecules. He can vibrate his molecules to become intangible or invisible. So he could just walk right through any attack that Hulk ever threw at him.

So, as any rational person can see, Superman should litterally win an encounter with Hulk every single damn time. Even two Hulks shouldn't present a problem to him. To say otherwise is just picking favorites and not being logical. From the above reasons, Superman wins this encounter 10/10.

"Are you actually putting Hulk on the same level as Superman? Well good luck to you sir, where ever you may end up in life."


You probably wanted to crack some joke here? And sure i put him on the same level. Physically. You have to be dumb not to, considering that physically speaking he has better feats under his belts.

As powerful? No. As strong and durable? Yes and sometimes even moreso.



- - -



"Actually, all in all Superman fought like a dumbass against DD. That's right it did turn into a slugfest. If Superman would've used all his powers to the greatest degree, then he would've won that fight straight out"

So every comic character figths like a dumbass then. Lets be clear, he didnt just traded punches in that one. He used the speed he had at the time, heat vison, durability and tried battle field removal. Thats the usual powerset he normally uses.

And here remains the exact point. If he figths like he normally does, he doesnt do well against beasts like Hulk or Doomsday. If he figths even better using his full abilities then he gets the majority.


- - -

"He did after all take down an entire army of DD clones with just his heat vision"

The same that Batman was choping left and rigth with an axe. Bad example. Those wer nothing compared with the real deal.


- - -


"Superman could easily take down Namor, Wonder Man, and Hercules with his ice breath in the first few seconds of the fight"




- - -


"Here's Superman freezing Wonder Woman with his ice breath, so yes, it would be effective on those three and don't freakin' tell me otherwise"


Want a more clear indication your losing ground now? We all know the figth didnt stopped there. Cmon man.


- - -


"Supes could also take out the three non-versatile characters with his heat vision. His heat vision is hotter than any scientific measurements can guage. It's off the charts hot and nobody can measure the vastness of the heat"


Sure. And yet, Thor took it close range and was still attacking Superman. Good example there.


- - -


"Captain Marvel would eventually take down Ironman too. So yes, Superman and Captain Marvel would win 8-9/10."

Your ignoring everything the other characters have done. They sure never went against the likes of Beyonder, Stellaris, Heralds and more right? And in the same token, the DC never had low showings either to average what they can do.


- - -


"And that's called jobbing my friend. It seems that when an opponent SEVERLY outclasses Hulk, they always have to have their powers dumbed down a lot in order to fight him."

Like Superman and the likes of Darkseid, Green Lanterns, New Gods and such? Are we using the same standarts for both?

Dont see it.


- - -


"No they wouldn't there isn't any thing they could do to him that he has survived.He went toe to toe with Gods wrap your mind around that Stranger,Galaxy Master and he has faced Shaper to and was able to keep him from controlling him. Go to Hulk respect thread and Marvel


It's called JOBBING!"


Leave the bullshit outside Batdude. Its no more jobbing that what Superman has done or any other. Its called having high feats.

Big double standart here.


- - -

"Actually, WW broke out of that ice in an instant. I do believe Namor, Wonder Man, and Hercules could also break out of it with little difficulty (i think cold temperatures actually make Namor stronger"


Yes, he somehow forgot to mention that. This debate has gone on the desperation row now.


- - -


"I mean, even Post-Crisis Superman is holding black holes IN THE PALM OF HIS HAND! "


He never held A black hole in the palm of his hand. Thats an internet myth. Post the scans for all to see. Especially since he did it with the point of not letting it release outside.



- - -



"Superman at full blood lusted should have little to no problems with Hulk because that would mean he would utilize his abilities to the FULLEST POTENTIAL"


And other characters cant go bloodlust like.......The Hulk? Odd.


- - -


"that he just froze that crap outta her and was done with it"


You wer already adressed on this point. This is the third time. The figth didnt stopped there so your point is moot.


- - -



"He can vibrate his molecules to become intangible or invisible"


Invisible yes. Intangible no. Hes not MM. You wer also adressed on this.

A little edit:


"And in the same token, the DC DUO never had low showings either to average what they can do."

Originally posted by olympian
"Are you actually putting Hulk on the same level as Superman? Well good luck to you sir, where ever you may end up in life."


You probably wanted to crack some joke here? And sure i put him on the same level. Physically. You have to be dumb not to, considering that physically speaking he has better feats under his belts.

As powerful? No. As strong and durable? Yes and sometimes even moreso.



- - -



"Actually, all in all Superman fought like a dumbass against DD. That's right it did turn into a slugfest. If Superman would've used all his powers to the greatest degree, then he would've won that fight straight out"

So every comic character figths like a dumbass then. Lets be clear, he didnt just traded punches in that one. He used the speed he had at the time, heat vison, durability and tried battle field removal. Thats the usual powerset he normally uses.

And here remains the exact point. If he figths like he normally does, he doesnt do well against beasts like Hulk or Doomsday. If he figths even better using his full abilities then he gets the majority.


- - -

"He did after all take down an entire army of DD clones with just his heat vision"

The same that Batman was choping left and rigth with an axe. Bad example. Those wer nothing compared with the real deal.


- - -


"Superman could easily take down Namor, Wonder Man, and Hercules with his ice breath in the first few seconds of the fight"




- - -


"Here's Superman freezing Wonder Woman with his ice breath, so yes, it would be effective on those three and don't freakin' tell me otherwise"


Want a more clear indication your losing ground now? We all know the figth didnt stopped there. Cmon man.


- - -


"Supes could also take out the three non-versatile characters with his heat vision. His heat vision is hotter than any scientific measurements can guage. It's off the charts hot and nobody can measure the vastness of the heat"


Sure. And yet, Thor took it close range and was still attacking Superman. Good example there.


- - -


"Captain Marvel would eventually take down Ironman too. So yes, Superman and Captain Marvel would win 8-9/10."

Your ignoring everything the other characters have done. They sure never went against the likes of Beyonder, Stellaris, Heralds and more right? And in the same token, the DC never had low showings either to average what they can do.


- - -


"And that's called jobbing my friend. It seems that when an opponent SEVERLY outclasses Hulk, they always have to have their powers dumbed down a lot in order to fight him."

All you're trying to do is disprove how they would defeat the Marvel line-up. You haven't once mentioned how in the hell the Marvel team would defeat Superman and Captain Marvel. How would Namor or any of the uni-dimensional guys cope with Superman's speed? They don't have the reflexes to. Superman would just dance circles around them while punching the sh*t out of them before they knew what to do. Like you've stated before, Namor is a non-factor here so that just leaves Ironman, Wonder Man, and Hercules to dish some out. Ironman would hold off CM for awhile, granted, but he would still go down eventually. Wonder Man and Hercules would be taken down by Superman. How would Hercules and Wonder Man take down what they couldn't see? Now if Superman does the old "I'm just gonna go hand to hand on these punks," then yes, Wonder Man and Hercules together would take down Superman. However, if Supes utilized his fighting speeds as well as his other abilities, then he would take down those three easily. He's taken down stronger teams before.

I'M losing ground huh? You haven't onced explained to me how in the hell this team would defeat Superman and Captain Marvel. Ironman aside, having three brutes against a couple of the most versatile characters around is a joke. Durability and strength I would even give to Superman vs. Hercules or Wonder Man.

"Thor took it close range and was still attacking Superman."

Yeah, and? Cross overs have never been observed as being cannonical, let alone being used as evidence. Besides, if you want to use cross-overs, in a fight Superman smacked Thor through a wall and knocked him out. Regardless of being non-cannonical, they are also riddled with PIS.

"And sure I put him on the same level. Physically."

Fair enough. I thought you ment someone like Hulk would take the majority of the wins on Superman.

And I'm not ignoring WM, Hercules, and Namor's low showings. It's just that they don't have the powerset to compete against somebody like Superman. He'd fly in faster than they can process a thought and burn them to death with his heat vision. They wouldn't be able to handle Superman's superior speed. Anyways, Ironman would give Captain Marvel a good fight, but he'd still lose in the end. Cap Marvel and Superman win 8-9/10. Why don't you tell me who would win next time and how?

Originally posted by batdude123
Why don't you tell me who would win next time and how? That how Olympian works. He has too much pride in Marvel to say that they can loose.

Originally posted by olympian
He never held A black hole in the palm of his hand. Thats an internet myth. Post the scans for all to see. Especially since he did it with the point of not letting it release outside.
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/9199/supermanblackhole0015ak.jpg

"He never held a black hole in the palm of his hand." Oh yes he did.

Originally posted by batdude123
"He never held a black hole in the palm of his hand." Oh yes he did.
Beat you to it.

Originally posted by Accel
Beat you to it. Which JLA issue was that? I forgot.

Originally posted by Accel
Beat you to it.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Which JLA issue was that? I forgot.
I don't know. i just got it out of his respect thread. It didn't give the issue.

Originally posted by Accel
I don't know. i just got it out of his respect thread. It didn't give the issue. Yea that's one of my older scans. But I don't remember which issue it was.

"All you're trying to do is disprove how they would defeat the Marvel line-up."


Anyone can see im disaproving your "logic" that they take this with ease.



- - -



"How would Namor or any of the uni-dimensional guys cope with Superman's speed? They don't have the reflexes to"


Of course. After all they NEVER tagged way faster opponents than themselves, right? Its totally impossible and never happened.



- - -



"Like you've stated before, Namor is a non-factor here so that just leaves Ironman, Wonder Man, and Hercules to dish some out. Ironman would hold off CM for awhile"


Wrong. I stated hes the most vulnerable to the HV. Not that hes innefective.



- - -



"How would Hercules and Wonder Man take down what they couldn't see?"


Teaming together. WMan does have superspeed and so does IM currently. Granted if Superman pulls i - am - invisible trick, IM is on the job.

Be clear that im not saying they will surely take it. Im saying its possible, and not a catewalk, wich seems the stance of some posts. Not when we see what the Avengers have taken in the past as well.



- - -



"I'M losing ground huh? You haven't onced explained to me how in the hell this team would defeat Superman and Captain Marvel. Ironman aside, having three brutes against a couple of the most versatile characters around is a joke. Durability and strength I would even give to Superman vs. Hercules or Wonder Man."


Using examples like DD clones that Batman could take, WW being frozen when we know she continued the fight and a black hole feat that always comes exagerated to what exactly happened, gives that impression yes.

How to explain? They have durability, strength, speed, versability and most important the team work. The only real brute here its Herc and even he has more than just raw strenght.

And the fact they are phsyically around the same level than the DC duo, some less and others the same, makes it already not easy for any to go down. Freezing wont work. Hurricane move wont work, unless every single one forgets what they can do. HV wont work the same in everyone.

This is no: lets speedblitz, punch and thats it. Not when at least three have a good time reaction set and at least two now, have actual superspeed.



- - -



"Yeah, and? Cross overs have never been observed as being cannonical, let alone being used as evidence. Besides, if you want to use cross-overs, in a fight Superman smacked Thor through a wall and knocked him out. Regardless of being non-cannonical, they are also riddled with PIS."


There was no wall.

Second, there is evidence of being cannonical, but its for someone to either accept it or not, i think.

Ive seen so many say it like you and then when it was convinient for them using that "evidence" on another debate. You arent probably one, and will accept then that for you, that figth never happened.

That still leaves guys like Herc taking attacks probably worse than the HV. High end feat for sure, but since we are using Superman at his very best, its not to expect less from the others.



- - -




"Fair enough. I thought you ment someone like Hulk would take the majority of the wins on Superman."


Only in pure slugfests or normal powerset like in DOS. Otherwise Hulk loses, not because hes less physically capable but because hes less versatible.

I just dont think this as the same thing when you have four on his range more or less. Its tought.



- - -



And I'm not ignoring WM, Hercules, and Namor's low showings"


High showings you mean.



- - -



"It's just that they don't have the powerset to compete against somebody like Superman"


And thats where all your logic simply crumbles. The way the characters fight its not exclusive to their powersets. If that was the case, Hulk and Hercules wouldnt be able to have the high end showings they have. Its the -use- they make of the powerset. Its how efficient they make it to be. Are we ignoring now, what they have all accomplished in the comics and only looking at this as trading cards stats? Of course not.



- - -



"Cap Marvel and Superman win 8-9/10. Why don't you tell me who would win next time and how?"


I already gave my opinion.

All of them at theyr best doesnt reach the 8-9 out of 10 range.

"http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/...khole0015ak.jpg"


*Aham*

Where its saying it was fully released?

Can someone explain the -wonder- of holding something thats -not yet- released. I didnt get this one.

Internet myth.



- - -



"That how Olympian works. He has too much pride in Marvel to say that they can loose."


Hearing that from someone who brings entries of characters to have evidence for debates hypocrite

Originally posted by olympian
"http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/...khole0015ak.jpg"


*Aham*

Where its saying it was fully released?

Can someone explain the -wonder- of holding something thats -not yet- released. I didnt get this one.

Internet myth.



- - -



"That how Olympian works. He has too much pride in Marvel to say that they can loose."


Hearing that from someone who brings entries of characters to have evidence for debates hypocrite These four avengers greatest feats still do not stack up the Supes and CMs low showings.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
These four avengers greatest feats still do not stack up the Supes and CMs low showings.
Co-signed.

Originally posted by olympian


Can someone explain the -wonder- of holding something thats -not yet- released. I didnt get this one.





" Are you being serious? It's not released yet cause SUPERMAN IS HOLDING IT FROM RELEASING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"These four avengers greatest feats still do not stack up the Supes and CMs low showings"


Oh yes. Post crisis Superman has sure punched dimensional gateways and time storms. So has Captain Marvel.

How silly of me.



- - -



"Are you being serious? It's not released yet cause SUPERMAN IS HOLDING IT FROM RELEASING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


I didnt knew you couldnt read Snoop. Here let me help.

Superman who btw did the feat says:

"Got it, BEFORE it was fully released"

The question mantains. HOW did he held a black hole that wasent released yet from its magnetic field when he got the hand of it.

Im sure you will answer to this, wont you.

Originally posted by olympian


How silly of me . Well atleast you admitt it.




Originally posted by olympian



I didnt knew you couldnt read Snoop. Here let me help.

It's not that I can't read. I just can't understand your poor English skills.

Maybe if you understood English better you would understand the comics better.

"It's not that I can't read. I just can't understand your poor English skills.

Maybe if you understood English better you would understand the comics better."





What a lame way of not conceading you just got owned.

The writer probably doesnt know how to write. After all he wrote that the mini black hole wasent out of the field yet when Superman got a hand of it.

That Superman struggled with the pressure in order to stop the BH from being released from the magnetic field its accurate.

That he held a BH in his hand its not, considering it didnt happened.

Was it in good enought English for you now, Snoop?

Originally posted by olympian
"It's not that I can't read. I just can't understand your poor English skills.

Maybe if you understood English better you would understand the comics better."





What a lame way of not conceading you just got owned.

The writer probably doesnt know how to write. After all he wrote that the mini black hole wasent out of the field yet when Superman got a hand of it.

That Superman struggled with the pressure in order to stop the BH from being released from the magnetic field its accurate.

That he held a BH in his hand its not, considering it didnt happened.

Was it in good enought English for you now, Snoop? You like thinking you own people. That's fine.

And yea your English was a little better.

And oh yea Don't try and apply real science into comics. You should know this.

"You like thinking you own people. That's fine.

And yea your English was a little better.

And oh yea Don't try and apply real science into comics. You should know this."



hypocrite


It has nothing to do with application of real science or not. The point of this comic book feat was that either a BH was released and he held it or it wasent and he didnt.

The story showed cleary that he didnt. You dont need to make a save of it. The feat was something else. Not what you claimed.

Originally posted by olympian



This is not an application of real science or not. Either it was released and he held it or it wasent and he didnt.

The story showed cleary that he didnt. You dont need to make a save of it. The feat was something else. Not what you claimed. In your own intelligent words what exactly happened in that pic?

BTW it wasn't my claim in the first place. Somebody else brought it up.

Originally posted by olympian
"All you're trying to do is disprove how they would defeat the Marvel line-up."


Anyone can see im disaproving your "logic" that they take this with ease.



- - -



"How would Namor or any of the uni-dimensional guys cope with Superman's speed? They don't have the reflexes to"


Of course. After all they NEVER tagged way faster opponents than themselves, right? Its totally impossible and never happened.



- - -



"Like you've stated before, Namor is a non-factor here so that just leaves Ironman, Wonder Man, and Hercules to dish some out. Ironman would hold off CM for awhile"


Wrong. I stated hes the most vulnerable to the HV. Not that hes innefective.



- - -



"How would Hercules and Wonder Man take down what they couldn't see?"


Teaming together. WMan does have superspeed and so does IM currently. Granted if Superman pulls i - am - invisible trick, IM is on the job.

Be clear that im not saying they will surely take it. Im saying its possible, and not a catewalk, wich seems the stance of some posts. Not when we see what the Avengers have taken in the past as well.



- - -



"I'M losing ground huh? You haven't onced explained to me how in the hell this team would defeat Superman and Captain Marvel. Ironman aside, having three brutes against a couple of the most versatile characters around is a joke. Durability and strength I would even give to Superman vs. Hercules or Wonder Man."


Using examples like DD clones that Batman could take, WW being frozen when we know she continued the fight and a black hole feat that always comes exagerated to what exactly happened, gives that impression yes.

How to explain? They have durability, strength, speed, versability and most important the team work. The only real brute here its Herc and even he has more than just raw strenght.

Thing, would fit more in that category.

And the fact they are phsyically around the same level than the DC duo, some less and others the same, makes it already not easy for any to go down. Freezing wont work. Hurricane move wont work, unless every single one forgets what they can do. HV wont work the same in everyone.

This is no: lets speedblitz, punch and thats it. Not when at least three have a good time reaction set and at least two now, have actual superspeed.



- - -



"Yeah, and? Cross overs have never been observed as being cannonical, let alone being used as evidence. Besides, if you want to use cross-overs, in a fight Superman smacked Thor through a wall and knocked him out. Regardless of being non-cannonical, they are also riddled with PIS."


There was no wall.

Second, there is evidence of being cannonical, but its for someone to either accept it or not, i think.

Ive seen so many say it like you and then when it was convinient for them using that "evidence" on another debate. You arent probably one, and will accept then that for you, that figth never happened.

That still leaves guys like Herc taking attacks probably worse than the HV. High end feat for sure, but since we are using Superman at his very best, its not to expect less from the others.



- - -



"Fair enough. I thought you ment someone like Hulk would take the majority of the wins on Superman."


Only in pure slugfests or normal powerset like in DOS. Otherwise Hulk loses, not because hes less physically capable but because hes less versatible.

I just dont think this as the same thing when you have four on his range more or less. Its tought.


- - -



And I'm not ignoring WM, Hercules, and Namor's low showings"


High showings you mean.



- - -



"It's just that they don't have the powerset to compete against somebody like Superman"


And thats where all your logic simply crumbles. The way the characters figth its not exclusive to their powersets. If that was the case, Hulk and Hercules wouldnt be able to have the high end showings they have. Its the -use- they make of the powerset. Its how efficient they make it to be. Are we ignoring now, what they have all accomplished in the comics and only looking at this as trading cards stats? Of course not.



- - -



"Cap Marvel and Superman win 8-9/10. Why don't you tell me who would win next time and how?"


I already gave my opinion.

All of them at theyr best doesnt reach the 8-9 out of 10 range.

"Of course. After all they NEVER tagged way faster opponents than themselves, right? It's totally impossible and never happened."

Have they demonstrated (Herc, Wonder Man, Namor) the ability to have reflexes fast enough to hit opponents at or faster than light? If they have, I would like to see the scans. The only way I see them tagging Superman who is using his speed advantage to the fullest, is if he let's them tag him. His super speed, his super senses, his superior thinking speed, and his invisibility trick combined with his ability to vibrate his molecules in order to PHASE through objects (is that a better word to use?) would make it nearly impossible for them to hit him without him going hand to hand against them.

"Wrong. I stated he's the most vulnerable to the HV. Not that hes inneffective."

He might as well not even be in this fight. He can fly, yes, he has a degree of super speed, yes, but he's no where near the level of Supes or CM.

"Teaming together. WMan does have superspeed and so does IM currently. Granted if Superman pulls i - am - invisible trick, IM is on the job."

Yeah, and how fast does WM go? Last I checked he can't go near the speed of light so his super speed means nothing here. If IM takes his eye off of CM for one second, it's "SHAZAM" time and he gets fried with CM's magical lightning. You're still thinking that CM would just wait in the stands for IM to detect Superman when he's invisible when that wouldn't be the case at all.

"How to explain? The have durability, strength, versatility and most important team work."

Alright I'll give you that they have strength and durability, but aside from Ironman, their versatility and speed is zilch in comparison to Superman and CM.

"This is no: let's speedblitz, punch and that's it. Not when at least three have a good time reaction set and at least two now, have actual superspeed."

They're reaction time means crap because Superman would be moving around them faster than they could possibly think.

"High showings you mean."

Yes, I did mean high showings.

"And thats where all your logic simply crumbles. The way the characters figth its not exclusive to their powersets. If that was the case, Hulk and Hercules wouldnt be able to have the high end showings they have. Its the -use- they make of the powerset. Its how efficient they make it to be. Are we ignoring now, what they have all accomplished in the comics and only looking at this as trading cards stats? Of course not."

What I ment to say, was that these guys don't have the powerset to take the majority against somebody like Superman. Anyways, yes, granted Hercules and these guys have done a lot with their power set, but it is still very very limited compared to the likes of Superman. Granted, their versatility with their power sets are impressive, but Superman has accomplished things that these guys could only dream about.

"I already gave my opinion.

All of them at theyr best doesnt reach the 8-9 out of 10 range."

Alright, fine... Cap Marvel and Superman win 6-7/10. Make you feel better?

Originally posted by golem370
No they wouldn't there isn't any thing they could do to him that he has survived.He went toe to toe with Gods wrap your mind around that Stranger,Galaxy Master and he has faced Shaper to and was able to keep him from controlling him. Go to Hulk respect thread and Marvel

Didn't Superman beat four gods at the same time?

"In your own intelligent words what exactly happened in that pic?


Exactly what is written and showed Snoop. I already said it and its rigth there. The BH wasent out ergo he didnt held on his hand a BH.



- - -



BTW it wasn't my claim in the first place. Somebody else brought it up."


And yet:


"Originally posted by olympian


Can someone explain the -wonder- of holding something thats -not yet- released. I didnt get this one.





"
Are you being serious? It's not released yet cause SUPERMAN IS HOLDING IT FROM RELEASING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


...here you promply defended the stance that he had a BH feat.



- - -



"Have they demonstrated (Herc, Wonder Man, Namor) the ability to have reflexes fast enough to hit opponents at or faster than light"


I dont recall how the IM and Surfer fight went, but more than likely not.

Not that it goes alot against them, Superman doesnt speedblitz faster than light that ive seen.



- - -



"His super speed, his super senses, his superior thinking speed, and his invisibility trick combined with his ability to vibrate his molecules in order to PHASE through objects (is that a better word to use?) "


Yeah. As long you realize what MM and Vison pull off its a different trick.



- - -



"He might as well not even be in this fight. He can fly, yes, he has a degree of super speed, yes, but he's no where near the level of Supes or CM."


Thats not rigth Batdude. The guys has:

> Broken the crimson bands of Cyttorak

> Stalemated the Hulk more than once

> Beaten Hulk twice

> Fought Hercules more than once to stalemates, on some he had the advantage and on others the opponent did

> Punched down BRB

> Fought Thor pretty well before, altho i dont recall if Thor won using Mjolnir or it was inconclusive

> Has dodged and grabbed missils. Herc has done the same. So the reaction time is at least good

Theres no way that physically hes nowhere that level. Hes top tier. Not exactly equal to Supes and Herc but akin to WMan he belongs to the next set. Thats more than enought to make it a fight.



- - -



"What I ment to say, was that these guys don't have the powerset to take the majority against somebody like Superman. Anyways, yes, granted Hercules and these guys have done a lot with their power set, but it is still very very limited compared to the likes of Superman. Granted, their versatility with their power sets are impressive, but Superman has accomplished things that these guys could only dream about"


My answer remains the same.

And for the record, the last sentence is wrong. Post crisis superman has a high degree of strenght like Herc and Hulk and yet he doesnt have:

> punching a celestial object bigger than Earth to dust

> shutting down with a punch a dimensional gateway

> punching a time storm

> resisting the antimatter and matter forces

> generating pressure to knock Earth out of orbit with a simple armwrestling match.

Clear what i mean? The character makes the powerset, not the other way around. You have guys on Spiderman powerset and yet he has feats the others dont. Same for the Captain America lite.


Im contesting btw the dominating majority. Not that they cant pull it off. Of course they can. On the other hand i see the first group having good chances as well playing as a team and being at theyr bests.

How did this thread get to this point?

By making it sound like only the duo can go bloodlust and have high levels, unlike the team.





It was fun, but now im out

Originally posted by olympian
"In your own intelligent words what exactly happened in that pic?


Exactly what is written and showed. He struggled to stop the BH from being released from the field.

Hence, he cant held something on his hand thats not even out.


- - -


BTW it wasn't my claim in the first place. Somebody else brought it up."


And yet:


"Originally posted by olympian


Can someone explain the -wonder- of holding something thats -not yet- released. I didnt get this one.





"
Are you being serious? It's not released yet cause SUPERMAN IS HOLDING IT FROM RELEASING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


...here you promply defended the stance that he had a BH feat.



- - -



"Have they demonstrated (Herc, Wonder Man, Namor) the ability to have reflexes fast enough to hit opponents at or faster than light"


I dont recall how the IM and Surfer fight went, but probably not.

Not that it goes alot against them, Superman doesnt speedblitz faster than light that ive seen.



- - -



"His super speed, his super senses, his superior thinking speed, and his invisibility trick combined with his ability to vibrate his molecules in order to PHASE through objects (is that a better word to use?) "


Yeah. As long you realize what MM and Vison pull off its a different trick.



- - -



"He might as well not even be in this fight. He can fly, yes, he has a degree of super speed, yes, but he's no where near the level of Supes or CM."


Thats not rigth Batdude. The guys has:

> Broken the crimson bands of Cyttorak

> Stalemated the Hulk more than once

> Beaten Hulk twice

> Fought Hercules more than once to stalemates, some he had advantage and others the opponent did

> Punched down BRB

> Fought Thor pretty well before, altho i dont recall if Thor won using Mjolnir or it was inconclusive

> Has dodged and grabed missils. Herc has done the same. So the reaction time is at least good

Theres no way that physically hes nowhere that level. Hes top tier. Not exactly equal to Supes and Herc but akin to WMan he belongs to the next set. Thats more than enought to make it a fight.



- - -



"What I ment to say, was that these guys don't have the powerset to take the majority against somebody like Superman. Anyways, yes, granted Hercules and these guys have done a lot with their power set, but it is still very very limited compared to the likes of Superman. Granted, their versatility with their power sets are impressive, but Superman has accomplished things that these guys could only dream about"


My answer remains the same.

And for the record, the last sentence is wrong. Post crisis superman has a high degree of strenght like Herc and Hulk and yet he doesnt have:

> punching a celestial object bigger than Earth to dust

> shutting down with a punch a dimensional gateway

> punching a time storm

> resisting the antimatter and matter forces

> generating pressure to knock Earth out of orbit with a simple armwrestling match.

Clear what i mean? The character makes the powerset, not the other way around. You have guys on Spiderman powerset and yet he has feats the others dont. Same for the Captain America lite.


Im contesting btw the dominating majority. Not that they cant pull it off. Of course they can. On the other hand i see the first group having good chances as well playing as a team and being at theyr bests.

"My answer remains the same.

And for the record, the last sentence is wrong. Post crisis superman has a high degree of strenght like Herc and Hulk and yet he doesnt have:

> punching a celestial object bigger than Earth to dust

> shutting down with a punch a dimensional gateway

> punching a time storm

> resisting the antimatter and matter forces

> generating pressure to knock Earth out of orbit with a simple armwrestling match.

Clear what i mean? The character makes the powerset, not the other way around. You have guys on Spiderman powerset and yet he has feats the others dont. Same for the Captain America lite."

You make it seem like the Marvel team's strength feats are the be all to end all against Superman and that's not correct. But Superman does has his impressive strength feats as well.

Superman and G. Zod blows are so devastating that they are creating earthquakes and the planet is falling apart. And he was still holding back while fighting under a red sun.


http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9351/08302005032341pm7oo.jpg

Superman taking a blast equal to a million nuclear blasts.

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/850/0822346hj.jpg
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/3932/08222005121910pm8yp.jpg
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/6301/089054127na.jpg

Here's Superman escaping a double black hole.

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/4198/untitled128qt3bk.jpg
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/5858/untitled138wy8fy.jpg
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/5207/untitled140kt3ew.jpg
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/938/untitled152oe8eq.jpg
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/8946/untitled166ov4wo.jpg

Supes catching a moon sized ship in travel and tossing it casually...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/moonmover.jpg

Anyways, Superman and Captain Marvel take this 6-7/10.

Here is a description from a web-site of what actually happened in JLA #77.

"Atom shrinks down as tiny as he can, because he can still remember to shrink, and tells Superman to use his heat vision to break Mnemon and force it to release all the memories it's been storing. But the black hole inside is going critical and it's all Superman can do to contain the gravitational forces between his hands. With intense struggle Superman manages to fly the device out into space and dispose of it through the same special anomaly that it arrived"

Superman contained the gravitation forces between his hands.

The duo takes this.

Namor, Ironman, Wonderman and Herc can be as bloodlusted as they want, but there isn't much they can do to Superman and Marvel. The only advantage that they have is numbers. While Supes and Marvel take care of Ironman and Wonderman with superior speed, strength, invulnerability and energy attacks, Herc and Namor are stuck on the ground. Herc and Namor lose on the ground with speed attacks and energy attacks. The only way the Marvel group will have a chance is if team DC slugs it out with them without using any of their other abilities. Since there is no CIS in this forum, that won't happen. Nobody has shown a viable scenario where team Marvel can win.

Originally posted by badabing
Namor, Ironman, Wonderman and Herc can be as bloodlusted as they want, but there isn't much they can do to Superman and Marvel. The only advantage that they have is numbers. While Supes and Marvel take care of Ironman and Wonderman with superior speed, strength, invulnerability and energy attacks, Herc and Namor are stuck on the ground. Herc and Namor lose on the ground with speed attacks and energy attacks. The only way the Marvel group will have a chance is if team DC slugs it out with them without using any of their other abilities. Since there is no CIS in this forum, that won't happen. Nobody has shown a viable scenario where team Marvel can win.

No kidding except for one thing, Namor can fly.

Originally posted by batdude123
No kidding except for one thing, Namor can fly.
His flight speed isn't that great which is the reason left him out.

Originally posted by badabing
His flight speed isn't that great which is the reason left him out.

I'm just saying that he wouldn't be landlocked like Hercules would. And actually, he can fly at super sonic speeds but he still isn't any where near as fast as Supermans and Marvel.

"You make it seem like the Marvel team's strength feats are the be all to end all against Superman and that's not correct. But Superman does has his impressive strength feats as well."


Not at all. Just to illustrate further the point, Batdude. Here we have two guys who have a less versatible powerset. Or as you can say a weaker one. And yet, what have they done with it? Stuff that Superman for example hasent. And vice versa. How then, can the ideia of them not being able to do anything show up?



- - -



"Namor, Ironman, Wonderman and Herc can be as bloodlusted as they want, but there isn't much they can do to Superman and Marvel."


-Your making it sound like only the duo can go bloodlust and have high levels, unlike the team-

Theyr high ends include surviving blasts from guys more powerful than Odin, going against Beyonder and fliers - more versatible people. Yet you say they CANT do much?

Your opinion is to be respected but i see very little basis for it.

Supes and Marvel win.

People like Batdude and other Superman fanboys are funny as hell Hulk beating a a better version of Superman is canon but him holding a black hole isn't Superman has been beat before by people like Lex Luthor a man he been took to his limit by Solomon Grundy a weak version of the Incredible Hulk. If Batman has a chance in a million of beating Superman then Hulk has 500,000 times that chance. He is just as powerful just as tough and just as much willpower and durability. Hulk has just as much chance of beating Superman as Superman has of beating him he fought muityple people with One being every bit as strong as Superman in Immortal Hercules. and Iron Man Wonder Man & Sub-Mariner who stronger tougher and more durable then Captain Marvel could ever dream to be bottom line Marvel always has a good chance against anybody..........

Originally posted by golem370
People like Batdude and other Superman fanboys are funny as hell Hulk beating a a better version of Superman is canon but him holding a black hole isn't Superman has been beat before by people like Lex Luthor a man he been took to his limit by Solomon Grundy a weak version of the Incredible Hulk. If Batman has a chance in a million of beating Superman then Hulk has 500,000 times that chance. He is just as powerful just as tough and just as much willpower and durability. Hulk has just as much chance of beating Superman as Superman has of beating him he fought muityple people with One being every bit as strong as Superman in Immortal Hercules. and Iron Man Wonder Man & Sub-Mariner who stronger tougher and more durable then Captain Marvel could ever dream to be bottom line Marvel always has a good chance against anybody.......... In your world, Gambit has a chance against Ganthet, though.

Don't put my words in my mouth. He beat Hyperion didn't he.

" In your world, Gambit has a chance against Ganthet, though."


Well, he did served Gladiator renske

Furter proof that its not the powerset that makes the character. Its what the character does with it.

Originally posted by golem370
People like Batdude and other Superman fanboys are funny as hell Hulk beating a a better version of Superman is canon but him holding a black hole isn't Superman has been beat before by people like Lex Luthor a man he been took to his limit by Solomon Grundy a weak version of the Incredible Hulk. If Batman has a chance in a million of beating Superman then Hulk has 500,000 times that chance. He is just as powerful just as tough and just as much willpower and durability. Hulk has just as much chance of beating Superman as Superman has of beating him he fought muityple people with One being every bit as strong as Superman in Immortal Hercules. and Iron Man Wonder Man & Sub-Mariner who stronger tougher and more durable then Captain Marvel could ever dream to be bottom line Marvel always has a good chance against anybody..........
You honestly think Namor, Iron Man, and Wonder Man are stronger than Captain Marvel?

Well enough to beat him yes I would say close Namor has lifted thousands of tons and Wonder Man is class 100 and Iron Man is now class 100 I would call it equal and Iron Man is more versatile

Golems right. Iron man has realy become uber lately

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Golems right. Iron man has realy become uber lately
So you mean to tell me those 3 could equal CM's showing against Superman, Black Adam, a mind controlled JLA, and a 5D Thunderbolt?

The most quoted "feat" on these boards for Wonder Man is getting curbstomped by Hyperion.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Golems right. Iron man has realy become uber lately Nothing to stop Superman from flying over and dismantling the armor and flying into space with it like he does when fights people like that..., then raining down heat vision and incinerating Namor. 2 down, minimal effort.
Herc and Wonder Man against The Big Blue Boy Scout and The Big Red Cheese? No contest.

For those that didn't get the memo...:

Originally posted by Tron
People are forgetting that Namor can fly too.


That said, Superman and Captain Marvel still stomp them, for reasons that have already been stated.

Iron Man Wonder Man & Sub-Mariner who stronger tougher and more durable then Captain Marvel could ever dream to be

Are you crazy? Well if you believe that you are. There is no way that any of them are stronger,tougher or more durable than CM.

this isn't really much of a fight if people are truly using their full potential.

Superman and CM take this faster than you can say "Miller Time".

Let's see... Hercules got beaten by Wonder Woman in Avengers/JLA, right?

Superman is faster and stronger and more durable than Wonser Woman, to say nothing of his other powers. He would freeze Sub-Mariner in 0000.2 seconds and then shatter his body.

Iron Man would have his armour melted by Heat Vision before he knew what happened.

Hercules would get beaten by either Superman OR Captain Marvel (who possesses the strength of DC Hercules, btw... AND he's immortal so you can't kill him).

Who did that leave? I forget but it doesn't matter. Supes and CM are too powerful for these guys.

They take it 9/10, with one going to Marvel because of CIS.

Yeah, Wonder Man... Superman beat him with one punch.

"Nothing to stop Superman from flying over and dismantling the armor and flying into space with it like he does when fights people like that..., then raining down heat vision and incinerating Namor. 2 down, minimal effort.
Herc and Wonder Man against The Big Blue Boy Scout and The Big Red Cheese? No contest"


From what ive gathered IM currently has:

> Superspeed

> Can mind control his own armour and other versions at the same time iirc. (He used something like a bunch of them against an opponent recently. Probably his equivelent from Russia whose name escapes me...Crimson Dinamo?).

> Has a healing ability factor that recently showed to a certain kanuck:

http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/639/ironimg0170ym5xr.jpg


No contest? The guy currently makes a fight with either alone.



- - -



"this isn't really much of a fight if people are truly using their full potential."


The only problem being, some posters here arent using ALL at full potential. Only the Duo.



- - -



"Let's see... Hercules got beaten by Wonder Woman in Avengers/JLA, right?

Superman is faster and stronger and more durable than Wonser Woman, to say nothing of his other powers. He would freeze Sub-Mariner in 0000.2 seconds and then shatter his body."


See what i meant sly

Here is where you are wrong:

Hercules didnt got beaten no. Beaten means utterly defeated. WW had one panel of advantage against him and Hercules did the same later. In the end it was a tie, since they both managed to overpower the other. Heres a nice example that shows you can punch and tag pll faster than you, huh.

The second thing that you are wrong about its that as faster, more durable and stronger that superman is in relation to WW (wich btw isent a big gap) he lost two times already against her.



- - -



"Iron Man would have his armour melted by Heat Vision before he knew what happened"

http://www.superherochat.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=94726



- - -



"Hercules would get beaten by either Superman OR Captain Marvel (who possesses the strength of DC Hercules, btw... AND he's immortal so you can't kill him)."


He would lose a majority against either if all powers are used. If he manages to turn it into a slug or better in h2h either of the two wont do good. But since hes not alone here, the result is very probably another.



- - -



"Yeah, Wonder Man... Superman beat him with one punch."


It was a trow. And we just know for sure that he was down.

Nothing wrong with that. Every top tier has one shot guys of the same group. Herc and Abom and Namor and BrB being two examples. Then on another ocassions they stalemate or get inconclusive.

We know Wman isent stronger than Supes or exactly as strong. But like in relation with others he is in the next set. He can well give a fight.

Edit:


"Hercules would get beaten by either Superman OR Captain Marvel (who possesses the strength of DC Hercules, btw... AND he's immortal so you can't kill him)."


"He would lose a majority against either if all powers are used. But since hes not alone here, the result is very probably another. If he manages to turn it into a slug or even better in a h2h match, neither of the two will do good.

Anyways, Superman and Captain Marvel win this 7-8/10. Neither Olympian or Golem have posted conceivable ways for the four to beat CM and Superman. I guess the majority of people would agree with me as well. Sorry Olympian, you're grasping at straws because you don't want to see the Marvel team go down and that's exactly what would happen. You've got three guys here who aren't even in the same league as CM and SM, and then you've got one guy who would put up a good fight for awhile, but in the end he'd lose as well. I really don't see a way for SM or CM to lose to any one of these guys unless they come into the fight retarded or in a wheel chair.

Olympian's not saying the four would win though. He's just saying Team DC wouldn't win as easily as people are making it seem.

Originally posted by Accel
Olympian's not saying the four would win though. He's just saying Team DC wouldn't win as easily as people are making it seem.

He hasn't made one conceivable way for them to win. Not at all. I understand that Wonder Man, Hercules, and Namor's high feats have been impressive but come on, they have no business being up against somebody like Superman or Captain Marvel. The only way they have a shot against Superman is if he goes down to their level and just fights them while ignoring all of the other uber powers he has, and even then it's questionable. Supes and Captain Marvel win 7-8/10.

thats like saying who would win the riche kids or the school bullys superr and marvel 9/10

Originally posted by batdude123
He hasn't made one conceivable way for them to win. Not at all. I understand that Wonder Man, Hercules, and Namor's high feats have been impressive but come on, they have no business being up against somebody like Superman or Captain Marvel. The only way they have a shot against Superman is if he goes down to their level and just fights them while ignoring all of the other uber powers he has, and even then it's questionable. Supes and Captain Marvel win 7-8/10.
He hasn't come up with a way for them to win because he's not saying they will win. He's just saying they won't go down without putting up a good fight.

"He hasn't made one conceivable way for them to win. Not at all. I understand that Wonder Man, Hercules, and Namor's high feats have been impressive but come on, they have no business being up against somebody like Superman or Captain Marvel. The only way they have a shot against Superman is if he goes down to their level and just fights them while ignoring all of the other uber powers he has, and even then it's questionable. Supes and Captain Marvel win 7-8/10."


Crisis man, you still continue with the same thing? You know by now very well that this isent only about powersets. Comics show this all the time. Whats the matter in understanding the simple fact.

Moreso this understatement is the one of the year weep:

"they have no business being up against somebody like Superman or Captain Marvel"

What the heck. I mean what. the. heck. No bussiness against? Most of the comic fiction is based on characters going against people they have no bussiness with. Superhero fiction even more. Spiderman doesnt have bussiness with the Hulk. Neither Cap. Neither Superman with Green Lanterns and heralds. Neither Hercules with guys that have put down Zeus. Neither Hulk with heralds.

And yet they have those feats. And yet they fight and sometimes even win. Weve seem them. Your quickly disregarding what some have managed to do even if they are less versatible and yet in the ones Superman, had no bussiness with, you use them.

I mean this isent even about streeth levelers against top tiers. Its top tiers against other top tiers.

As for any conceavable way. I already said those. I dont need to do a resume of tactics about it. You see what the characters are able like IM "stealing" power from Surfer even at his classic days and you get an ideia what they can do.


Its called common sense.



- - -



"Olympian's not saying the four would win though. He's just saying Team DC wouldn't win as easily as people are making it seem."


Im not claiming they will win and period. Im saying they can. They have the teamwork, skill, numbers, versability, some speed and definatly the muscle to do it.

Im especially against the whole notion that its a catewalk, that the high feats the Avengers have even against pll more versatible than them and more powerful somehow dont count because " they have no bussiness to, its the powerset". Even with comics and comics showing that ideia is wrong.

My last three cents.

Originally posted by olympian
"He hasn't made one conceivable way for them to win. Not at all. I understand that Wonder Man, Hercules, and Namor's high feats have been impressive but come on, they have no business being up against somebody like Superman or Captain Marvel. The only way they have a shot against Superman is if he goes down to their level and just fights them while ignoring all of the other uber powers he has, and even then it's questionable. Supes and Captain Marvel win 7-8/10."


Crisis man, you still continue with the same thing? You know by now very well that this isent only about powersets. Comics show this all the time. Whats the matter in understanding the simple fact.

Moreso this understatement is the one of the year weep:

"they have no business being up against somebody like Superman or Captain Marvel"

What the heck. I mean what. the. heck. No bussiness against? Most of the comic fiction is based on characters going against people they have no bussiness with. Superhero fiction even more. Spiderman doesnt have bussiness with the Hulk. Neither Cap. Neither Superman with Green Lanterns and heralds. Neither Hercules with guys that have put down Zeus. Neither Hulk with heralds.

And yet they have those feats. And yet they fight and sometimes even win. Weve seem them. Your quickly disregarding what some have managed to do even if they are less versatible and yet in the ones Superman, had no bussiness with, you use them.

I mean this isent even about streeth levelers against top tiers. Its top tiers against other top tiers.

As for any conceavable way. I already said those. I dont need to do a resume of tactics about it. You see what the characters are able like IM "stealing" power from Surfer even at his classic days and you get an ideia what they can do.


Its called common sense.



- - -



"Olympian's not saying the four would win though. He's just saying Team DC wouldn't win as easily as people are making it seem."


Im not claiming they will win and period. Im saying they can. They have the teamwork, skill, numbers, versability, some speed and definatly the muscle to do it.

Im especially against the whole notion that its a catewalk, that the high feats the Avengers have even against pll more versatible than them and more powerful somehow dont count because " they have no bussiness to, its the powerset". Even with comics and comics showing that ideia is wrong.

My last three cents.

Common sense would tell you that Superman's high showings far outweigh those of these three (excluding Ironman). Yeah they have experience with their powerset and have their high feats but so what? Superman's high showings>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Namor's, Hercules's, and Wonder Man's high showings. The fact that you are comparing these three guy's high showings against a man who has taken down the entire JLA singlehandedly more than once is stardling. Pfffft. Give me a break. Versatility with their powersets means jack sh*t compared to Superman. He eats people like Hercules, Wonder Man, and Namor for breakfasts in damn near every comic. Please stop comparing those three's high feats against Superman's because their is NO comparison. And Captain Marvel is every bit Superman's equal so I really don't see how they could take this without them doing something totally miraculous that they've never done before and Superman and Captain Marvel fight like dumbasses. Cap Marvel and Superman win 7-8/10

Originally posted by Juntai
Nothing to stop Superman from flying over and dismantling the armor and flying into space with it like he does when fights people like that..., then raining down heat vision and incinerating Namor. 2 down, minimal effort.
Herc and Wonder Man against The Big Blue Boy Scout and The Big Red Cheese? No contest. No doubt.

Originally posted by olympian



Exactly what is written and showed Snoop. I already said it and its rigth there. The BH wasent out ergo he didnt held on his hand a BH.



So what was he holding in his hand?


Does anybody else have any thoughts on this?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
So what was he holding in his hand?


Does anybody else have any thoughts on this?


My thoughts? Comic universe black holes do the job.

Either way it gets 5 stars on the "Holy ****!" scale.

" Common sense would tell you that Superman's high showings far outweigh those of these three (excluding Ironman). "


Nope. And not in all departments either. Durability sure. Strenght for example? Definatly not. Hulk alone has better feats. Herc alone has some better ones. I kind of ask again, where does the definite proof comes from?



- - -



"Superman's high showings>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Namor's, Hercules's, and Wonder Man's high showings."


No. Even Namor broke a restraining force that Galactus didnt.




- - -




"So what was he holding in his hand?


Does anybody else have any thoughts on this?"



What was the "machine" that was keeping the BH, called?




- - -




"The fact that you are comparing these three guy's high showings against a man who has taken down the entire JLA singlehandedly more than once is stardling"


And each one of these have done pretty well alone against a being whos done the same in theyr universe....so?

Herc defeated a Terminus and look what he did to the Jla. Ok i kid, you dont use the crossover.

Btw. The fight your mentioning is the one Supes wet mad? And Orion stalemated him, or another.




- - -




"Versatility with their powersets means jack sh*t compared to Superman. He eats people like Hercules, Wonder Man, and Namor for breakfasts in damn near every comic. Please stop comparing those three's high feats against Superman's because their is NO comparison"


weep


Why do you even read comics then. They dont write the characters like you WANT to. Whats the point of you doing it.

Your crossing the fanboysm line there.




- - -




"And Captain Marvel is every bit Superman's equal so I really don't see how they could take this without them doing something totally miraculous that they've never done before and Superman and Captain Marvel fight like dumbasses."


But "miracles do happen". Look at Korvac, Ultron, Terminus, Hulk, Typhon,...renske

Edit:

"Nope. And not in all departments either. Durability sure. Strenght for example? Definatly not. Herc alone has -some- better ones. I kind of ask again, where does the definite proof comes from? Just because " hes Superman ?"

Originally posted by olympian
" Common sense would tell you that Superman's high showings far outweigh those of these three (excluding Ironman). "


Nope. And not in all departments either. Durability sure. Strenght for example? Definatly not. Hulk alone has better feats. Herc alone has some better ones. I kind of ask again, where does the definite proof comes from?



- - -



"Superman's high showings>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Namor's, Hercules's, and Wonder Man's high showings."


No. Even Namor broke a restraining force that Galactus didnt.




- - -




"So what was he holding in his hand?


Does anybody else have any thoughts on this?"



What was the "machine" that was keeping the BH, called?




- - -




"The fact that you are comparing these three guy's high showings against a man who has taken down the entire JLA singlehandedly more than once is stardling"


And each one of these have done pretty well alone against a being whos done the same in theyr universe....so?

Herc defeated a Terminus and look what he did to the Jla. Ok i kid, you dont use the crossover.

Btw. The fight your mentioning is the one Supes wet mad? And Orion stalemated him, or another.




- - -




"Versatility with their powersets means jack sh*t compared to Superman. He eats people like Hercules, Wonder Man, and Namor for breakfasts in damn near every comic. Please stop comparing those three's high feats against Superman's because their is NO comparison"


weep


Why do you even read comics then. They dont write the characters like you WANT to. Whats the point of you doing it.

Your crossing the fanboysm line there.




- - -




"And Captain Marvel is every bit Superman's equal so I really don't see how they could take this without them doing something totally miraculous that they've never done before and Superman and Captain Marvel fight like dumbasses."


But "miracles do happen". Look at Korvac, Ultron, Terminus, Hulk, Typhon,...renske

"Nope. And not in all departments either. Durability sure. Strenght for example? Definatly not. Hulk alone has better feats. Herc alone has some better ones. I kind of ask again, where does the definite proof comes from?"

Uh... flying out of a double black hole requires an incalcuably amount of strength behind it. Also, if you are going to continue to compare Namor's, Hercules's, and Wonder Man's feats at their highest level, then why not use Superman's at his highest? Superman has defeated four gods before he has gone so fast that he created a boomtube and teleported himself.

C'mon, you're comparing Superman, Superman my God to three powerhouses that while yes they have impressive feats, granted, but Superman has feats that would make their heads spin.

"No. Even Namor broke a restraining force that Galactus didnt."

And with that, don't you think there comes a little bit of PIS as well? Or are you litterally trying to compare Namor to Galactus? Btw, Dr. Strange was hardly even concentrating on holding Namor in the Cytorrak bands.

"Why do you even read comics then. They dont write the characters like you WANT to. Whats the point of you doing it.

Your crossing the fanboysm line there."

You may call me a fan-boy, but everybody here knows that Superman would pwn those three while CM took care of IM. Who's crossing the lines of fanboyism now? They are ABSOLUTELY nothing Superman hasn't delt with before.

"Uh... flying out of a double black hole requires an incalcuably amount of strength behind it"


Flying off a black hole isent a strenght feat. Its speed and mostly durability.



- - -



"Also, if you are going to continue to compare Namor's, Hercules's, and Wonder Man's feats at their highest level, then why not use Superman's at his highest? Superman has defeated four gods before he has gone so fast that he created a boomtube and teleported himself."

And i am comparing. Im not the one saying the Avengers will definatly win or have it easy despise the high showings pll in the group have.

That fight with the four Gods. Didnt Iron ended up weakening them? In his human form, Ball was stalemating Superman in an armwrestle.

Even so its a high end, just like the Avengers doing also against the Olympian Gods and guys even more powerful.



- - -



"And with that, don't you think there comes a little bit of PIS as well? Or are you litterally trying to compare Namor to Galactus? Btw, Dr. Strange was hardly even concentrating on holding Namor in the Cytorrak bands."


Thats what high end showings are. Its not different than Superman literally punking Darkseid, or standing against Angels like Asmodel that even the Presence noticed about them when they went against Heaven.

Are you comparing Superman to high Angels too?



- - -



"You may call me a fan-boy, but everybody here knows that Superman would pwn those three while CM took care of IM. Who's crossing the lines of fanboyism now? They are ABSOLUTELY nothing Superman hasn't delt with before."

And your doing it again. The simple fact Comics dont show Superman -owning- his fellow top tiers not EVEN when hes amped up or berserk shows that you are w-r-o-n-g.

Ergo, your using a version of the character that is your own and not the one regulary written.

Otherwise youd have common sense, at least a bit of it and realize that the Avengers also have encountered things, that Superman never dealt with. Like Uber Korvac and pre retcon Beyonder.

Team DC wins. Super speed, flight, super strength, invulnerability, heat vision and magic lightning take it for them.

Yeah i knew i saw it somewhere:


http://img18.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=75b_supesarmgod1a.jpg

http://img127.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=056_supesarmgod1b.jpg

http://img126.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=6ee_supesgods1.jpg

http://img20.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=ffd_supesgods2.jpg

http://img111.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=10b_supesgods4.jpg

http://img17.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=b3f_supesgods5.jpg

http://img21.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=b24_supesgods6.jpg

http://img105.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=a43_supesgods7.jpg

http://img127.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=f1c_supesgods8.jpg

http://img19.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=417_supesgods9.jpg

http://img109.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=5ee_supesgods10.jpg

Originally posted by olympian
"Uh... flying out of a double black hole requires an incalcuably amount of strength behind it"


Flying off a black hole isent a strenght feat. Its speed and mostly durability.



- - -



"Also, if you are going to continue to compare Namor's, Hercules's, and Wonder Man's feats at their highest level, then why not use Superman's at his highest? Superman has defeated four gods before he has gone so fast that he created a boomtube and teleported himself."

And i am comparing. Im not the one saying the Avengers will definatly win or have it easy despise the high showings pll in the group have.

That fight with the four Gods. Didnt Iron ended up weakening them? In his human form, Ball was stalemating Superman in an armwrestle.

Even so its a high end, just like the Avengers doing also against the Olympian Gods and guys even more powerful.



- - -



"And with that, don't you think there comes a little bit of PIS as well? Or are you litterally trying to compare Namor to Galactus? Btw, Dr. Strange was hardly even concentrating on holding Namor in the Cytorrak bands."


Thats what high end showings are. Its not different than Superman literally punking Darkseid, or standing against Angels like Asmodel that even the Presence noticed about them when they went against Heaven.

Are you comparing Superman to high Angels too?



- - -



"You may call me a fan-boy, but everybody here knows that Superman would pwn those three while CM took care of IM. Who's crossing the lines of fanboyism now? They are ABSOLUTELY nothing Superman hasn't delt with before."

And your doing it again. The simple fact Comics dont show Superman -owning- his fellow top tiers not EVEN when hes amped up or berserk shows that you are w-r-o-n-g.

Ergo, your using a version of the character that is your own and not the one regulary written.

Otherwise youd have common sense, at least a bit of it and realize that the Avengers also have encountered things, that Superman never dealt with. Like Uber Korvac and pre retcon Beyonder.

Once again all of Superman's top feats beat out the Avengers. Superman by himself has taken down universal level beings. Because people here either really hate his character, or what he's all about they sorely underestimate him.

And yes, as a giant team have done well in the past, but these are only four of that team and four managable ones for Supes and Marvel. IM might give CM some trouble, especially with his new extremis armor, but he'd still go down in the end. That leaves Superman with three other ones that have almost no versatility when compared to him. Yes, they have had their feats in the past, but they should not be beating Superman.

The super speed, flight, heat vision hotter than anyone can measure as well as all of the other forms of his visions, ice breath, durability, strength, super senses, and vibrating tricks of Superman would clinch the match against the other three. Yes, they have shown some versatility with their powersets in the past, but I don't see Hercules pulling heat vision or super speed OR ice breath out of his ass every fight. I see him a guy who's best shot at beating Superman would be if Superman were to just go h2h against him, and even then it's iffy. If Superman utilizes his attack speed, then the three are dead. Combined with the fact that he can think and react MUCH faster than them, they're f*cked.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/4214/superman20speed20vs20mongul202.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9558/supermanandmongul8pr.jpg


Marvel team goes down 7-8/10.

Here's a present :

http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanpwnage5nn.jpg
http://img343.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlaclassified015page033rv.jpg
http://img460.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlaclassified015page048eg.jpg
http://img460.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlaclassified015page057ku.jpg