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No prep. Bloodlust on. Both are in energy/matter forms.

This is a tough one . I'ma say Iceman becaust he could form his ice into somthing that could deflect or diffuse Ray's energy.

The Ray can turn into a energy being of light, for those who don't know. Poor Dr. Light schooled his ass...

Reading Young Justice would also help improve knowledge about him.

Or visit wikipedia.

as usual I like your thread matches. I know very little about the ray however other than history and backstory. So I cant really say at the moment

I cannot say myself since this requires the knowledge of science geek. Which I am not.

It's basically light vs. water.

something that throws into question the actual 'science' is the fact that iceman apparently froze the stranger's eyesbeams, which were also energy and subject to all the oddities that entails. he basically froze a stream of cosmic radiation. that would be like freezing cyke's optic blast, or a bolt of lightning. light is just one more form of energy. i tend to find the feat . . . difficult to accept let alone explain. does that mean he could freeze magneto's shields? thor's godforce? what about juggernaut's force field? is he simply freezing the medium through which the energy is channeled? light is still an unknown -- wave or particle? if a particle, theoretically bobby could stop it's movement and 'freeze' light. if a wave, well . . . uhg. makes my head hurt! he'd essentially need to freeze the medium i think.

of course, applying real science is pointless. heisenberg says he shouldn't be able to actually 'stop' atomic motion because of uncertainty. but . . . what does he know.

he couldn't even hurt the ray since when using his power to his full extent he is pure energy with no physically body which is how he survived a shot gun to the head and lobo punching him in the head. He could also make himself invisible and hit iceman from behind. Iceman is powerful but against someone like the Ray he would lose

iceman has already frozen pure energy . . .

and even if he goes invisible, i see no way for ray to actually beat iceman.

Originally posted by leonidas
something that throws into question the actual 'science' is the fact that iceman apparently froze the stranger's eyesbeams, which were also energy and subject to all the oddities that entails. he basically froze a stream of cosmic radiation. that would be like freezing cyke's optic blast, or a bolt of lightning. light is just one more form of energy. i tend to find the feat . . . difficult to accept let alone explain.


He might be able to implant water molecules around other molecules.

If he can do that, then that would prove how fast he is when he does to those things.

it's an interesting theory, but they wouldn't even be molecules. in theory, they may be subatomic particles -- infinitely smaller than molecules.

Energy cannot be "frozen". If energy were frozen, the universe would implode. It's not possible and is PIS.

Especially against the Stranger....

Originally posted by Draco69
Energy cannot be "frozen". If energy were frozen, the universe would implode. It's not possible and is PIS.

Especially against the Stranger....

i'm not arguing that it's not pis -- i said that from the get-go -- but the idea was to somehow try and explain away how it MIGHT have been possible.

Originally posted by Draco69
Energy cannot be "frozen". If energy were frozen, the universe would implode. It's not possible and is PIS.

Especially against the Stranger....

Call it what you like , it still happened. All of us regret it , and if we find the writer you can have a piece of him .....

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not arguing that it's not pis -- i said that from the get-go -- but the idea was to somehow try and explain away how it MIGHT have been possible.

Well everyone seems to not understand that the Iceman vs. the Stranger incident is not even in continuity anymore due to House of M/Deadly Genesis AND it's clearly a Spider-Man vs. Firelord feat.

Originally posted by Draco69
Well everyone seems to not understand that the Iceman vs. the Stranger incident is not even in continuity anymore due to House of M/Deadly Genesis AND it's clearly a Spider-Man vs. Firelord feat.

that may well be the case, but it has opened up some interesting interpretations of his power. and i thought that bobby still retained that pre-house of m level of power? no?

what does house of m have to do with?? He has all the same powers, except the second mutation.


and spider man vs firelord is much different. Spiderman has essentially (even though I guess you could say of late he is adapting more) reached the apex of his potential powers. Bobby has not. He is an Omega class level mutant, and has always been portrayed to be more powerful then even he understood. Therefore it is in the realm of possibility that Iceman really IS that powerful, hes just too much of an idiot to realize it. Sort of like your Vixen explaination......

Originally posted by leonidas
that may well be the case, but it has opened up some interesting interpretations of his power. and i thought that bobby still retained that pre-house of m level of power? no?

Supposedly. He hasn't really demostrated as such since Apoc knocked him out with a punch....

People need to understand that Iceman is only capable of moisture control.

Which is why I doubt that Iceman can induce absolute zero. Physics says that doing so would require an immense amount of energy and could also cause quantum shifts in the universe. In fact there's no real recorded instance of absolute zero since it flys in the face of quantum physics.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
what does house of m have to do with?? He has all the same powers, except the second mutation.


and spider man vs firelord is much different. Spiderman has essentially (even though I guess you could say of late he is adapting more) reached the apex of his potential powers. Bobby has not. He is an Omega class level mutant, and has always been portrayed to be more powerful then even he understood. Therefore it is in the realm of possibility that Iceman really IS that powerful, hes just too much of an idiot to realize it. Sort of like your Vixen explaination......

No, it can be defined as Spider-Man vs. Firelord feat since

A) He only did it once (anyone notice that 99% of the Iceman evidence comes from the X-Men special...which isn't even continuity anymore.)

B) It was against an opponent that could erase his ass from existence with a thought.

C) It doesn't make sense

How isnt it in continuity anymore??? Thats the question I am having.

Of course alot of the material there is shown for Iceman evidence, but I can show him beating Mangeto too, flash freezing legion, ect, ect.

No other character that I know of, has been his WHOLE career told that he sucks in using his powers. So every now and then when he finally does something impressive, Im inclined to believe that he was too stupid to do it before. Considering that he is an Omega Mutant, and everyone and their mother has helped him realize that.

Originally posted by Draco69
Supposedly. He hasn't really demostrated as such since Apoc knocked him out with a punch....

People need to understand that Iceman is only capable of moisture control.

Which is why I doubt that Iceman can induce absolute zero. Physics says that doing so would require an immense amount of energy and could also cause quantum shifts in the universe. In fact there's no real recorded instance of absolute zero since it flys in the face of quantum physics.

i agree with what yor're saying. we've discussed the impossibility of absolute zero in the real world in a different thread. but you know as well as anyone that real world science flies in the face of comic book science.

the most interesting bit of info you offered was about apocalypse. did he actually ko bobby with a punch?