Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Ok , now most of the public today consider that the devil is in fact , satan,Lucifer etc etc etc.

But aren't these separate demons ?

Lucifer is from what I understand a fallen angel , having been cast out by god for trying to rebel (also for the sin of pride)

Belair ether spurned him or sired him and was apparently thrown out of heaven before his son.friend

Satan is a creation by/of god to test man's piety and how well they react to temptation.

Beelzebub is ether another name of the devil or a lesser demon.

Mephistopheles is (again) another name which most associate the devil , when in fact it is apparently a chief devil/demon and the first to fall after Lucifer ?

Anyone else want to help out ?

Beelzebub came from the Canaanites as "Lord of the High house"..Canaanite chief god Baal....It was similar to other names and could also be a title for King Solomon, so the Jews changed it to Beelzebub...It really means "Lord of the flies."

http://www.occultopedia.com/b/beelzebub.htm

Satan really only means "Accuser"....Never a demon...The unbelieving Jews were said to be satan also. It is rarely mention in the OT at all...So, it could be taken as more metaphorical in stories...

As far as Lucifer goes, people have taken it out of context when in the OT it is talking about the king of Babylon.

How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, who laid the nations low!

13 You said in your heart, "I will ascend into heaven! I will exalt my throne above the stars of God! I will sit on the mountain of assembly, in the far north!

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds! I will make myself like the Most High!"

And also taken from an earlier source which was edited in Isaiah at a later date.
Pagan scriptures of the 7th century BC is a dirge for the fallen Morning Star"

How hast thou fallen from heaven, Helel's son Shaher? Though didst say in thy heart, I will ascend to heaven, abover the circumpolar stars I will raise my throne, and I will dwell on the Mount of Council in the back of the north; I will mount on the back of a cloud, Iwill be like unto Elyon...

Jewish scribes copied this Canannite scripture into the Bible and pretended it was written by Isaiah.

Though Lucifer means "light bearer" the name for the planet Venus as the Morning Star"..

http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/skepticism/origin_lucifer.html

Originally posted by debbiejo
Beelzebub came from the Canaanites as "Lord of the High house"..Canaanite chief god Baal....It was similar to other names and could also be a title for King Solomon, so the Jews changed it to Beelzebub...It really means "Lord of the flies."

http://www.occultopedia.com/b/beelzebub.htm

Satan really only means "Accuser"....Never a demon...The unbelieving Jews were said to be Satan also. It is rarely mention in the OT at all...So, it could be taken as more metaphorical in stories...

As far as Lucifer goes, people have taken it out of context when in the OT it is talking about the king of Babylon.

How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, who laid the nations low!

13 You said in your heart, "I will ascend into heaven! I will exalt my throne above the stars of God! I will sit on the mountain of assembly, in the far north!

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds! I will make myself like the Most High!"

And also taken from an earlier source which was edited in Isaiah at a later date.
Pagan scriptures of the 7th century BC is a dirge for the fallen Morning Star"

How hast thou fallen from heaven, Helel's son Shaher? Though didst say in thy heart, I will ascend to heaven, abover the circumpolar stars I will raise my throne, and I will dwell on the Mount of Council in the back of the north; I will mount on the back of a cloud, Iwill be like unto Elyon...

Jewish scribes copied this Canannite scripture into the Bible and pretended it was written by Isaiah.

Though Lucifer means "light bearer" the name for the planet Venus as the Morning Star"..

http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/skepticism/origin_lucifer.html

I understood the Lord Of The flies connection.

I also knew of Lucifer's alias (Morning-star) although I didn't know it was connected to his other title (Lightbrigner)

So who really does lord over hell , because if (as you say) Satan is a metaphor (a 'boogeyman' in the closet if you will) then some demonic entity mentioned within a holy text must reside over the nine pit's ?

Nine Pits???........

I don't believe scripture talks about 9 pits. And scripture doesnt say that anyone is ruling over hell/Sheol/Pit...ie death...., if that's what you mean....

In the Bible along with older myths it is taught that satan will be thrown INTO the lake of fire.....

Satan (Greek: Satan or Satanas) as used in the New Testament is a word of Hebrew origin. It means the accuser, the adversary, the opponent, the prosecution (in a legal case). In the Greek New Testament the Hebrew word Satan is often translated into the Greek word diabolos, which most commonly is translated into English as Devil. Diabolos means the accuser, slanderer, calumniator, backbiter, enemy, one who separates.


Satan is a Lawyer....lol

Originally posted by debbiejo
Nine Pits???........

I don't believe scripture talks about 9 pits. And scripture doesnt say that anyone is ruling over hell/Sheol/Pit...ie death...., if that's what you mean....

In the Bible along with older myths it is taught that satan will be thrown INTO the lake of fire.....

Satan (Greek: Satan or Satanas) as used in the New Testament is a word of Hebrew origin. It means the accuser, the adversary, the opponent, the prosecution (in a legal case). In the Greek New Testament the Hebrew word Satan is often translated into the Greek word diabolos, which most commonly is translated into English as Devil. Diabolos means the accuser, slanderer, calumniator, backbiter, enemy, one who separates.


Satan is a Lawyer....lol

I always knew laywers were evil....

I though their were nine pit's were within hell ?

All is One and One is all.

These names are just associations, like in Egypt Amon-Ra, just a compellation of two qualities. The devil doesnt exist as humanity knows it, you cannot personalize this entity for it is an energy, not a person. However, only humanity brings such idiot ideas as to name things and to say that evil is bad. There is no good or evil in this universe, no universal law will punish for sins. Nor is there a heaven, nor there is a hell; there is only darkness in the Empty Space. Satan was created by the Christian Church, and Lucifer or whatever name is just another manifestation of that energy.

Originally posted by AbyssNL
All is One and One is all.

These names are just associations, like in Egypt Amon-Ra, just a compellation of two qualities. The devil doesnt exist as humanity knows it, you cannot personalize this entity for it is an energy, not a person. However, only humanity brings such idiot ideas as to name things and to say that evil is bad. There is no good or evil in this universe, no universal law will punish for sins. Nor is there a heaven, nor there is a hell; there is only darkness in the Empty Space. Satan was created by the Christian Church, and Lucifer or whatever name is just another manifestation of that energy.

I understand the various aspects of one being thing.

I also understand a large amount of the confusion is caused by the varying translations of the bibles and the fact that (If a piece didn't confirm with a certain countries views) it was deemed a lie and heretical.

Belair I'm pretty sure isn't 'The Devil' . But ether his father/friend.

Lucifer is an angel thrown out for the sin of pride and rebellion , this does link in with 'Satan' (the entity which i mentioned earlier) as this quotation so describes.



The morning star references are iffy , because they could be referring to the Babylonian king , or the angel lucifer as he was a 'light bringer. Ergo a 'morning star' .

Beelzebub could be a demonic entity on equal footing or slightly lower then 'Satan/devil/lucifer himself.

The Morning Star is really Venus....Have you looked out into your sky??

Do a search on Beelzebub origins.......you'll see where it came from.......


There are NO DEMONS

So Satan and Lucifer are not the same person ?

Originally posted by debbiejo
The Morning Star is really Venus....Have you looked out into your sky??

Do a search on Beelzebub origins.......you'll see where it came from.......


There are NO DEMONS

I understand their are no ACTUAL demons. But it's interesting trying to separate what actually IS the devil and what isn't.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So Satan and Lucifer are not the same person ?

He very well could be , hes the highest on my 'possiby' list currently next to Mephistopheles.

Oh boy. Demonology.

Alright so Dis is the great betrayer and fallen angel in judeochristianity. The term lucifer comes from a misinterpretation of Roman translation but has since become adapted as Dis' name before his fall. Satan mean accuser or adversary and comes from ha'sataan, the angel who challenged god to test job but has since also been identified with Dis. Beelzebub is a separate demon as identifed previously and is a main figure in Paradise Lost. Mephistopheles is a trickster demon from Goethe's Faust. Sin is Lucifer's daughter as identified in Paradise Lost. Death is a demon representing death through war, famine, pestillence, plauge, etc., separating him from God's angel of death Azrael. Death is identified in Paradise Lost as the incestuous product of a union between Lucifer and Sin and is depicted as a transparent shadow though is commonly identified as the grim reaper. There are other demons identified in the inferno which are taken from other religions/mythologies such as the erenys and the gorgons or historical figures. Others, mainly Hell's leutenants in the sixth or seventh round (i forget) of Malebolge are demons who's names are derived from word play-Scarmiglione (the snatcher), Rubicante (red man), Barbariccia (curley beard), Calcabrina (brine walker), Cagnazzo (dog face), etc.

So if there aren't any demons then explain to me which is Pazuzu, who is actually the son of Satan, they still define it as a demon. Both beelzebub and Pazuzu are called the Lord of Flies. Or coincidence?

Pazuzu is an assyrian deity, I believe

How would you know this???......

Pazuzu a winged demon, feared by the people of ancient Mesopotamia. It is a creature with a deformed head, the wings of an eagle, the sharp claws of a lion on its hands and feet, and the tail of a scorpion. This demon is the personification of the south-east storm wind, which brings diseases. Just like Beelzebub.

Yep like "Lord of the flys"

"Flies"

wasnt there one called Zim Zum??

Originally posted by Alliance
"Flies" .......Pick pick pick..............

i know...sorry. Just a reflex. I am clearly not the patron god of grammar.

Satan is the scapegoat used to give someone else blame when a person does something that someone considers evil. The names are just the ones that went with the Gods the people the Christians thought were evil at that time were worshipping (e.g. Pan as Satan is a rather common, and blatant one.) Catholoscism has always incorporated the beliefs of the people they were trying to convert. They didn't pray to saints either until they came across people that worshipped their ancestors.

I do believe in an entity that is in opposition to God though

Originally posted by AbyssNL
There is no good or evil in this universe.

Good is whatever leads to existence in the better of two environments. Evil it's opposite. Not to say there isn't gray. But good would be the actions that lead to the best possible final outcome evil would be actions that lead to the worst possible outcome. Variations on these statements could possible lead to a median area somewhere. No matter your belief you could agree with this definition. So given this, bullet to the head would be evil in my estimation, unless it just sends me to heaven, in which case perhaps it was good j/k, it would be defined by the outcome for the individual that shot the gun.

I agree with the scapegoat theory. They blamed Satan for everything, for the storm, for the plague. Ppl dont seem to understand that Satan is a necesarry energy. As one might understand this very well, are the Egyptians. This is one of my favo songs about Seth:

Comes the desert storm.
Comes the desert rain.
Comes the Lord of all whose time is at an end.
When the storm has passed.
The tempral will be gone.
Only the eternal will remain in its wake.

FACE IT! WITHOUT SATAN YOU WOULD NOT EVEN BE ABLE TO LIVE! WITHOUT THE DEVIL NO BIRTH.

Originally posted by AbyssNL
I agree with the scapegoat theory. They blamed Satan for everything, for the storm, for the plague. Ppl dont seem to understand that Satan is a necesarry energy. As one might understand this very well, are the Egyptians. This is one of my favo songs about Seth:

Comes the desert storm.
Comes the desert rain.
Comes the Lord of all whose time is at an end.
When the storm has passed.
The tempral will be gone.
Only the eternal will remain in its wake.

FACE IT! WITHOUT SATAN YOU WOULD NOT EVEN BE ABLE TO LIVE! WITHOUT THE DEVIL NO BIRTH.

There is no Satan, it is just a myth. Good and evil are part of all things.

Abraxas.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is no Satan, it is just a myth. Good and evil are part of all things. Yes, it is what we label it........but really it's just consequences for actions.........cause = effect = reality........

That's all.........not a big thing, just a smart thing to know....

there is no good without evil....

None of them exist, there just stories to scare the little people into doing what the leaders want.