River Tam vs. Buffy the Vampire Slayer

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Draco69
River Tam is the psychic girl from Firefly and the movie Serenity (GODDAMN YOU FOX NETWORKS! YOU AND YOUR F***ING REALITY SHOWS!!)

1st Battle: Pure hand to hand combat

2nd Battle: Double Blade battle

grey fox
Don't originate from comics.

Closing.....

Sea King
Originally posted by Draco69
River Tam is the psychic girl from Firefly and the movie Serenity (GODDAMN YOU FOX NETWORKS! YOU AND YOUR F***ING REALITY SHOWS!!)

1st Battle: Pure hand to hand combat

2nd Battle: Double Blade battle

i give it to river (i like fire fly big grin )

Draco69
Originally posted by grey fox
Don't originate from comics.

Closing.....


Er...ah....They both do have comics! And er....Serenity started out as a one-shot comic....

Sea King
Originally posted by Draco69
Er...ah....They both do have comics! And er....Serenity started out as a one-shot comic....

yep so they should be allowed

grey fox
Originally posted by Draco69
Er...ah....They both do have comics! And er....Serenity started out as a one-shot comic....

Sure , and Bruce Campbell has a chin of jelly.

Scoobless
River Tam is below peak human with low level psychic abilities (that she doesn't really control) and fight enhancements (which are NOT comparable to Midnighter's.... before anyone mentions it)

Buffy is superhuman in every physical regard, is trained in the use of all bladed, blunt and projectile weaponry and has been fighting for her life since she was 15 years old

River is good but she's totally outmatched against an experienced Slayer

Soljer
Originally posted by Scoobless
River Tam is below peak human with low level psychic abilities (that she doesn't really control) and fight enhancements (which are NOT comparable to Midnighter's.... before anyone mentions it)

Buffy is superhuman in every physical regard, is trained in the use of all bladed, blunt and projectile weaponry and has been fighting for her life since she was 15 years old

River is good but she's totally outmatched against an experienced Slayer

True, but you forget that Buffy is a really shitty show, whereas Firefly and Serenity were entertaining. Therefore, River takes this without a problem.

Tron
Originally posted by Draco69
River Tam is the psychic girl from Firefly and the movie Serenity (GODDAMN YOU FOX NETWORKS! YOU AND YOUR F***ING REALITY SHOWS!!)

1st Battle: Pure hand to hand combat

2nd Battle: Double Blade battle

Co-signed (and just got the season on dvd, Fox f*cked on that one)

Originally posted by grey fox
Don't originate from comics.

Closing.....

They're both under Dark Horse, so they're good. And Joss Whedon writes them both, how can you deny that? roll eyes (sarcastic)

The Pict
Buffy rips River apart. There is NO way River Tam can beat Ms Summers. She is way too strong for her. i would enjoy watching this cat-fight by the way.

Arahan
River takes this. She is a bloody killing machine who has much better fighting techs than buffy.

Firefly is one of the best shows i ve ever seen.
Serenity was also great. Pitty that there is no second season.
May be a second movie? who knows.....

The Pict
buffy knows more fighting styles my man, she killed demons who formerly had to be killed by an entire army. she has saved the entire world, many times. river tam cannot compare.

Scoobless
Originally posted by Arahan
River takes this. She is a bloody killing machine who has much better fighting techs than buffy.

Firefly is one of the best shows i ve ever seen.
Serenity was also great. Pitty that there is no second season.
May be a second movie? who knows.....

There aren't going to be any more films (according to Whedon) the film didin't take in enough money to justify sequals.... i think the only future for the crew of Serenity will be in comic or novel format

........... And Buffy would kick River's arse all over the place

_____________

Hey, Pict.... good to see another Edinburgh based poster on these boards

srankmissingnin
Buffy has some insane blunt damage soak and while not in realms of superhuman she is increadibly strong so she gets the h2h fight. River wins the sword fight though.

The Pict
buffy beats river in a sword fight as well. super human reflexes, she is a slayer, designed to take out vampires. buffy's strength = river blocks a sword thrust and gets a broken arm.

MrHeavySilence
You guys don't know what the hell you're talking about man. River has PRECOG. And she never even got hit in Serenity. Not even once! She slaughtered more people than Buffy did in her entire sixth season. AND UNLIKE Buffy, she can use guns! Guns + Fast As Buffy + Precog + Non-Getting-Ass-Kicked-Consistency.

ST0RM SHAD0W
Yeah, shes psychic and can read peoples minds.

I think she'll take this.

Sea King
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Yeah, shes psychic and can read peoples minds.

I think she'll take this.

yeah being phychic would help when it comes to knowing what move ur opponent is going to do

ST0RM SHAD0W
Thats probably one of the reasons she killed the Reavers so easy.

Sea King
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Thats probably one of the reasons she killed the Reavers so easy.

man thos things are messed up

Scoobless
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Thats probably one of the reasons she killed the Reavers so easy.

Reavers are desperate morons with a bloodlust level so high that they run into gunfire... as far as villains go they fall into the special needs group

Buffy is faster than River, stronger, far more durable, better trained and she's been fighting and killing superhuman foes (including telepathic demons) since she was 15 years old

ST0RM SHAD0W
Originally posted by Scoobless
Reavers are desperate morons with a bloodlust level so high that they run into gunfire... as far as villains go they fall into the special needs group

Buffy is faster than River, stronger, far more durable, better trained and she's been fighting and killing superhuman foes (including telepathic demons) since she was 15 years old


Yeah they may seem stupid, but they use spaceships and set highly technological traps.

So they are smart, but they're so savage and animalistic they come off as being stupid at times.

They were all armed and had a level of intelligence to where they still knew how to use advanced tech.

River jumped into a pack of them and killed them all without being hurt.

River is also a psychic which also helps in the fight alot.

In a episode of Firefly she shoot and killed three soldiers with her eyes closed.

River is also a genius.

She was correcting her brother on his spelling when she was 3 years old.

Also in a scene edited from the final cut of the film Serenity, River calculates the most efficient escape vector and launch window for the ship to leave the planet Miranda… entirely in her head, apparently without paying attention to the intensely complicated mathematics.

So shes a telepathic, psychic, genius that is also highly trained to be the perfect assassin.

All these factors would help her chances to beat Buffy.

thisredbox
bruce campbell has two brains...

Sea King
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
Yeah they may seem stupid, but they use spaceships and set highly technological traps.

So they are smart, but they're so savage and animalistic they come off as being stupid at times.

They were all armed and had a level of intelligence to where they still knew how to use advanced tech.

River jumped into a pack of them and killed them all without being hurt.

River is also a psychic which also helps in the fight alot.

In a episode of Firefly she shoot and killed three soldiers with her eyes closed.

River is also a genius.

She was correcting her brother on his spelling when she was 3 years old.

Also in a scene edited from the final cut of the film Serenity, River calculates the most efficient escape vector and launch window for the ship to leave the planet Miranda… entirely in her head, apparently without paying attention to the intensely complicated mathematics.

So shes a telepathic, psychic, genius that is also highly trained to be the perfect assassin.

All these factors would help her chances to beat Buffy.

yeah buffy has strength and speed and exp but not gonna help if river knows what she gonna do before she does it and caculates the beast way to take "CARE" of buffy

by care i mean kill

srankmissingnin
When has Buffy ever shown any degree of superhuman speed? Heck her strength isn't even that impressive. What is her most impressive feat? Lifting an i-beam, I think. I took Angel, two other vampires, a demon and Gun to carry around a one ton casket... and they were having a hell of a time with it. Now Buffy is stronger then Angel but not by that much. Whedon-verse protagonists, like their main villains and cannon fodder are really not THAT impressive.

And River is more skilled then Buffy, you can chalk it up to a better choreographicer and a higher budget but she is still a better fighter. Buffy's huge blunt trauma soak will allow her to win out in h2h hand but with weaponry she gets chopped up good.

Soljer
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
When has Buffy ever shown any degree of superhuman speed? Heck her strength isn't even that impressive. What is her most impressive feat? Lifting an i-beam, I think. I took Angel, two other vampires, a demon and Gun to carry around a one ton casket... and they were having a hell of a time with it. Now Buffy is stronger then Angel but not by that much. Whedon-verse protagonists, like their main villains and cannon fodder are really not THAT impressive.

And River is more skilled then Buffy, you can chalk it up to a better choreographicer and a higher budget but she is still a better fighter. Buffy's huge blunt trauma soak will allow her to win out in h2h hand but with weaponry she gets chopped up good.

Wow, only 400 pounds a piece? Go watch some "Strongest man in the world" competitions on ESPN, those guys carry around something like 900 pounds down a 20 meter course. Yeah, not impressive by comic book standards, but considering its a REAL human carrying NINE HUNDRED pounds? Them carrying 400 a piece doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Soljer
Wow, only 400 pounds a piece? Go watch some "Strongest man in the world" competitions on ESPN, those guys carry around something like 900 pounds down a 20 meter course. Yeah, not impressive by comic book standards, but considering its a REAL human carrying NINE HUNDRED pounds? Them carrying 400 a piece doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.

... What? I never said it was a stretch, I was saying how unimpressive their strength is.

LordKaos
Buffy is the only slayer to have ESP she has precognitive as well as telepathic (with Angel and Faith) dreams, she has an intuitive ability to fight (because of the slayer memory) that is enhanced through training. Buffy is superhumanly fast, she can catch arrows and run fast enough to momentarily evade a hellgod who has obvious super speed. He strength is considerable she hit and knocked a super powered Warren across a half way across a parking lot with the door he ripped of an armored truck. She knew that she could get to willow quicker than Zander and his car could before he knew Willow trashed it.

The Pict
buffy can hit flies buzzing around a room with a pin, thats how accurate she is (she did this in her first comic)
she kicked a couch across a room.
been hit by a car in LA and got up straight away. also in LA she beat all those underground demons which equals river fighting a group of reavers.
this is no contest. river can't predict what buffy is gonna do because buffy is too fast.

Arahan
Dont underestimate the River Sense^^

Buffy sucks. First 2 seasons were okay but then it get worse.
Willow a lesbian witch, Oz breaking up and leaving the cast.
Werewolves are cool, no one needed another ***** ehm witch like
Tara. The only good thing about Buffy was the Angel spin off.
That was really funny.

The Pict
gee buffy must have sucked, its not like sarah michelle gellar had to play the character for like 9 years or anything...........oh wait a sec.
buffy knocks river out with one punch. job done.

Arahan
dude it just got that long because of guys like you who watch that crap.

Scoobless
Originally posted by Arahan
dude it just got that long because of guys like you who watch that crap.

It got that long because the writing was first class, it was one of the best TV series in the last ten years

As for superstrength showings on the show, she:

Bent a shotgun barrel in her hands without exerting herself
Kicked a 200+ lb guy 30 feet across a room in a training session while holding back
Tore the door off of an armoured car
Destroyed a building (with Spike) while..... being intimate
Lifted steel girders with complete ease on a building site

.... there are many, many more, but they aren't plastered around every single episode

The Pict
Originally posted by Scoobless
It got that long because the writing was first class, it was one of the best TV series in the last ten years

As for superstrength showings on the show, she:

Bent a shotgun barrel in her hands without exerting herself
Kicked a 200+ lb guy 30 feet across a room in a training session while holding back
Tore the door off of an armoured car
Destroyed a building (with Spike) while..... being intimate
Lifted steel girders with complete ease on a building site

.... there are many, many more, but they aren't plastered around every single episode

you won't get a disagreement from me, about the show's writing or buffy's feats of strength.

Sea King
Originally posted by Arahan
Dont underestimate the River Sense^^

Buffy sucks. First 2 seasons were okay but then it get worse.
Willow a lesbian witch, Oz breaking up and leaving the cast.
Werewolves are cool, no one needed another ***** ehm witch like
Tara. The only good thing about Buffy was the Angel spin off.
That was really funny.

ah yes angel spin off was the best part of buffy

as for river loesing nope cant happen buffys dreams maybe telapathic but she cant fight while shes asleep river has two things that make her win this her compleat and otter genius and she is telapathic witch makes her know every singal move buffy will make before she makes it trust me buffy cant win this even if she dreamed the whole fight then remembered it, she went into the fight then she trys to do diffrent moves witch river could pridict and contuer with her smarts working im beating she figuars out the most buffy can do in strength,speed & endurance and could find away to over exzert her

Scoobless
Nope, Buffy wins.... as stated previously, she's already fought and killed telepathic/psychic beings before

Arahan
no Buffy loses. She didnt do anything that really impressed me.

Thanks to rivers intelligence she could make master plan.
She is like Batman combined with psi powers.

Prep time baby even without it she would win less easy but she would.

Sea King
Originally posted by Scoobless
Nope, Buffy wins.... as stated previously, she's already fought and killed telepathic/psychic beings before

and u know and so does every one else that those telepathic beings were not as fast as river or any were near as good a fighter as her so sure buffy killed one then she was all bed rest for most of the ep and it was angel who killed the other one to safe buffys life

but ok lets take that fact sure in this fight well river is still a genius so whats to stop her from calculating buffys moves and how to kill her in the best way thinkable

The Pict
Buffy has taken huge demons apart, a slightly telepathic girl isn't going to be a problem. river tam isn't gonna predict EVERY single move Buffy makes. Buffy is too fast, guys. River can barely control her ability, she'll probably have a "glimpse" or whatever into Buff's past, see all the violence and faint.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Tron
They're both under Dark Horse, so they're good. And Joss Whedon writes them both, how can you deny that? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Tron just saved you, fellas. I was coming in here to close this. wink

The Pict
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Tron just saved you, fellas. I was coming in here to close this. wink


thats OK we all agreed Buffy was better anyway wink

Arahan
in what is buffy better? bitching around with vampires, army psychos and ******* students, then yes wink

Scoobless
How about at keeping a TV show on the air ... stick out tongue

Black Adam
Originally posted by Scoobless
How about at keeping a TV show on the air ... stick out tongue

sad

Arahan
Originally posted by Scoobless
How about at keeping a TV show on the air ... stick out tongue

Like I said, thats because of the people who has a bad taste in TV shows. Firefly was better but it didnt get the quotes.

The Pict
cos it wasn't better than Buffy. Buffy had the better leading lady.

Decay
id say river. buffy is stronger, and possibly slightly faster reflex wise, but river is slighty psychic which would give her an edge. plus shes far more intelligent, and that intelligence transfers over to combat as we have seen in eps of firefly. one glance and she knows exactly how many soldiers are where and can shoot them without looking.

buffy never really seemed to be a really great figher, shes good against things that fight like animals with little defencive abilities or stratigy like vampires and demons, but i dont think she has all that much experience in taking someone as skilled as river. river tam all the way.

willRules
Originally posted by Arahan
Like I said, thats because of the people who has a bad taste in TV shows. Firefly was better but it didnt get the quotes.


sooooo much better that it was good enough to get cancelled???


Buffy wins this, River is too outclassed here............

Arahan
gosh you didnt read my posts. whatever.

River wins big grin

Scoobless
River couldn't even kil Jane in that bar fight, Buffy would kick her arse

Arahan
River didnt want to kill Jane.
If she really wanted she could kill him easily.

By the way Jane may be a dumbass but he is good fighter.

The Pict
Originally posted by Decay
id say river. buffy is stronger, and possibly slightly faster reflex wise, but river is slighty psychic which would give her an edge. plus shes far more intelligent, and that intelligence transfers over to combat as we have seen in eps of firefly. one glance and she knows exactly how many soldiers are where and can shoot them without looking.

buffy never really seemed to be a really great figher, shes good against things that fight like animals with little defencive abilities or stratigy like vampires and demons, but i dont think she has all that much experience in taking someone as skilled as river. river tam all the way.

not a great fighter? buffy know loads of fighting styles, she has been training since she was 14 with her first watcher. but your right about reflexes though, when angel was about to stab her in the show she caught the sword between her hands with her eyes closed!! river couldn't do this, if she tried she'd lose her hands about a quarter second before she died. Go Buffy!!!!!!!!!!

MrHeavySilence
Angel would take all of them out. lol

The Pict
except for buffy, cos' shes already beat him before.

MrHeavySilence
Originally posted by The Pict
except for buffy, cos' shes already beat him before.

But Angel's so much cooler.

The Pict
hes not cooler than Buffy (i hope arahan doesn't read this) nobody on a Whedon show is.

chrisdabeard
I think River would easily take Buffy. She held her own against an entire army of Reavers for God's sake!!! Demons are scarey, but the entire 'verse was terrified of Reavers, even Jayne (and he was pretty bad arse).

I love Joss Whedon's work, but Buffy would get her arse handed to her on a plate.

Bring back Firefly.

Incendax
Buffy has incredible strength, but she cannot hit River Tam due to precognition and equivalent reflexes. This inability to hit River Tam really skews the results in favor of River.

In Hand to Hand combat, Buffy should win because River cannot do any significant damage to Buffy. Unless River manages to get Buffy into some kind of jujitsu lock, River will become exhausted and eventually lose to Buffy.

In Weapon combat, River should win because she now has the ability to damage Buffy. Buffy will continue to be unable to hit River with any attack she makes. More curiously, in spite of being trained with weapons since she was a teenager, Buffy never actually manages to use them with any serious degree of skill.

redhotrash
Reavers are human in every sense except for their mental condition. Buffy would have destroyed them too. Shes fought a LOT of demons at once, who are in every way superior to reavers. And no, reavers cant control advanced technology. The show is set in the future, its just plain old technology for them. Flying a spaceship there would be the equivilant to driving a car here. Also, Buffy easily lifted with 1 hand a giant hammer that Spike couldnt even budge (and again remember vampires are stronger than humans.) Also River doesnt really know how to fight exactly, she just does. Buffy has been training for years and has a host of impressive showings. Also her telepathy didnt prevent Jane from grabbing her in the first place. Buffy wouldve broken every rib in her body given the same chance.

Incendax
Originally posted by redhotrash
Buffy has been training for years and has a host of impressive showings. Also her telepathy didnt prevent Jane from grabbing her in the first place. Buffy wouldve broken every rib in her body given the same chance. I will argue two things.

1) Buffy has never had an impressive showing. Her actual level of skill is easily eclipsed by hundreds of mortal practitioners.

2) River Tam would not have let Jane grab her if she felt actually threatened by Jane. As a precog, she was aware of exactly how little danger she was in. While Buffy would certainly shatter every rib in her body, she would never be given the opportunity to do so.

redhotrash
Buffy has caught and avoided arrows, defeated multiple armed attackers, and reguarly (at least 3+ times a season) has defeated global threats. Not to mention she has a low to mid level healing ability.
Buffy has like 9 seasons of showings, plus whats going on in her comic. River had like half of 1 movie, and spent her entire show freaking out and had maybe 1 half showing (shooting people with her eyes closed)

Silent Master
Buffy was only on for 7 seasons.

redhotrash
Doh, my bad, as I was saying, she has 7 seasons of showings vs River's 1 movie. Not to mention the telepathy was never really stated and everyone is just assuming she had full control over it.

Incendax
Originally posted by redhotrash
Buffy has caught and avoided arrows, defeated multiple armed attackers, and reguarly (at least 3+ times a season) has defeated global threats. Not to mention she has a low to mid level healing ability.
Buffy has like 9 seasons of showings, plus whats going on in her comic. River had like half of 1 movie, and spent her entire show freaking out and had maybe 1 half showing (shooting people with her eyes closed) The vast majority of those 'showings' include her brawling with very little actual martial arts skill. What scenes showed her using weapons included even less martial arts skill. Buffy takes frequent hits and relies on her great strength to carry her through battles involving people who also take frequent hits in return. This tactic does not work against River Tam.

Unfortunately, as Mythbusters has shown us, catching an arrow in flight is not an act of great agility but an act of great strength and thus tells us nothing more than we already know: Buffy is incredibly strong.

Buffy's ability to defeat global threats is not relevant to this discussion. We are not asking River Tam to defeat a global threat, or save countless millions, only to defeat Buffy.

redhotrash
And the majority of River's very appearances are her hiding, screaming, and overall acting like the typical damsel in distress. Im really not sure how dodging or catching arrows is not a sign of agility, but if myth busters says so, it must be true.
Lets ignore her fighting blindfolded. Or her latent healing ability. Or her uncanny ability at throwing various weapons. Why not also disregard that in a couple of weeks she was able to train a large group of completely inexperienced teenaged girls into slayers capable of fighting demons in a hell dimension. Yeah screw all that. Instead lets focus on basically 2 fights of River's. One in which she beat up a bunch of people in a bar, many of which were trying to avoid the fight altogether, and the other where she took out mindless savages, some of which were unarmed.

-Pr-
good ol joss whedon: making his women strong when they're really not.

Incendax
Originally posted by redhotrash
And the majority of River's very appearances are her hiding, screaming, and overall acting like the typical damsel in distress. Im really not sure how dodging or catching arrows is not a sign of agility, but if myth busters says so, it must be true.
Lets ignore her fighting blindfolded. Or her latent healing ability. Or her uncanny ability at throwing various weapons. Why not also disregard that in a couple of weeks she was able to train a large group of completely inexperienced teenaged girls into slayers capable of fighting demons in a hell dimension. Yeah screw all that. Instead lets focus on basically 2 fights of River's. One in which she beat up a bunch of people in a bar, many of which were trying to avoid the fight altogether, and the other where she took out mindless savages, some of which were unarmed.

Fighting Blindfolded is a useful ability, matched and exceeded by precognition which requires no sight to function. The latent healing ability is sufficient to give Buffy the edge against Tam in Hand to Hand combat, but insufficient in Weapon combat. Throwing various weapons is not relevant when Buffy cannot hit River Tam. Training large groups of people is not relevant to combat skills at all, and only relevant to leadership and the ability to effectively convey useful information.

We can gladly focus on each of River's fights, where she never took a single blow that threatened her, demonstrated actual martial arts capability (the same as the choreographer, specifically) and only became grabbed in situations where she was quite aware she would be unharmed.

Juk3n
Tam smashes, No Russian!

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