The Joker vs The Fantastic 4

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Black Adam
Joker gets a week of prep.

Team gets gets 10 minutes after jokers one week is up.



fight takes place in NYC
who wins?

Private Pion
Depends.

If Joker is trying to kill them, he knocks them out, sets up a stupid trap which is still deadly and they escape, while he runs away to Mexico.

If Joker is just being generally evil, the Four stop his plot, and he runs away to Mexico.

Caine607
Joker gets stomped 9/10 if not 10/10 cus no plans realy going to take take out all 4 of them at once and thats the only way he could win

Soljer
The four - they have FAR more firepower than Batman does, and Reed is FAR smarter than Bruce. If the Batman can consistently take down the Joker, the Fantastic Friggin Four sure as hell can.

A.J
10/10 ff

what does he ever really do with that prep that can take out the ff

batdude123
Originally posted by Soljer
The four - they have FAR more firepower than Batman does, and Reed is FAR smarter than Bruce. If the Batman can consistently take down the Joker, the Fantastic Friggin Four sure as hell can.

That's because Batman has experience with Joker and how his mind works, Reed doesn't. roll eyes (sarcastic)

TheKahn
I just have a hard time figuring out what exactly the Joker could come up with in a week that would win the fight for him. All the FF have to do is get Sue to create a force bubble in his brain or have Johnny use a nova blast to end the fight in a matter of seconds. Now maybe explosives or gas attacks would work if the FF didn't have any time to defend themselves from them, but Sue should be able to protect them from just about anything I can imagine the Joker can throw at them.

But I may be underestimating the Joker here. erm Exactly what resources does he have to work with?

Soljer
Originally posted by batdude123
That's because Batman has experience with Joker and how his mind works, Reed doesn't. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Tell me, then, are you arguing that the Joker could take this? What the f**k?

batdude123
Originally posted by Soljer
Tell me, then, are you arguing that the Joker could take this? What the f**k?

I'm not even saying that, I'm just saying Reed doesn't have ANY experience with how the Joker works like Batman does. So saying what you did about Reed isn't going to help him for the fight. no However, the FF take this 9/10.

Whittdawg92
I agree w/ what batdude123 jus said.

Soljer
Originally posted by batdude123
I'm not even saying that, I'm just saying Reed doesn't have ANY experience with how the Joker works like Batman does. So saying what you did about Reed isn't going to help him for the fight. no However, the FF take this 9/10.

I didn't say that Reed knew the way Joker's mind works. I said he is smarter than Bruce. Reed would be able to think through whatever traps the Joker has. Reed would outsmart the Joker, plain and simple. He could go through enough possibilities in enough time. Reed is pretty much the smartest man on Earth. He can definitely hang with the Joker in that class. And besides that....well...hell, you yourself said the Four took it 9/10.

That's enough.

Whittdawg92
He is not smart enough to outwit Joker, few are. Thing, HT, Invis woman, and Reed would just stomp his aaas anyways. Brains doesn't equal cunning.

Avalonofthewind
Reed and Batman are 2 totally separate types of intelligence...

Reeds is an inventor.
Bats is a detective.

Totally different uses for their brain. Just because Bats may see through a Joker trap, it does not mean that Reeds will see it as well, just as Reed can invent things that Bats couldn't dream of.

The joker is a genius with chemicals, traps, and explosions. With a week of prep, I'm sure he could come up with something.

Interesting battle.

batdude123
Originally posted by Soljer
I didn't say that Reed knew the way Joker's mind works. I said he is smarter than Bruce. Reed would be able to think through whatever traps the Joker has. Reed would outsmart the Joker, plain and simple. He could go through enough possibilities in enough time. Reed is pretty much the smartest man on Earth. He can definitely hang with the Joker in that class. And besides that....well...hell, you yourself said the Four took it 9/10.

That's enough.

Without experience, I don't think Reed would know what to expect from the Joker. The Joker is synnical, crazy, off-beat, and just an all around nut job. Batman actually knows how the Joker's mind works and Reed doesn't. With only ten minutes of prep, Reed wouldn't have any idea what the Joker was up to. (I'm sorry) To say that Reed would out think Joker's plans, especially ones that he's been cooking up for a week is a bit wierd. Now, if Reed got some inkling or idea of what the Joker was up to BEFORE the fight and had some actual time to figure some stuff out, then I would agree with you. You know, the Joker has outsmarted Lex Luthor before. wink At least we can agree that the FF take the CLEAR majority here. thumb up

Whittdawg92
FF 4 don't deal with crazy people much, and no amount of research is gonna give them the edge, but they beat him senseless when they sniff him out.

batdude123
And like Avalon just said, Reed and Batman are two TOTALLY different kinds of geniuses.

Whittdawg92
Originally posted by batdude123
And like Avalon just said, Reed and Batman are two TOTALLY different kinds of geniuses. sorry, posted too late, I'm not as fast of a typer as the rest of people I guess.

Inhuman
There have been TONS of instances in comics were a certain hero isnt used to a NEW villain that has just popped up in the scene. 90% of the time it doesnt matter. Hero wins in the end.

Superman will not be used to Mysterios antics, but that doesnt mean that mysterio will have a slight chance at all vs supes.

Whittdawg92
well duh, in comics, heros always end up winning. It's the idiotic sense of reality that makes comics so entertaining.

Inhuman
Originally posted by Whittdawg92
well duh, in comics, heros always end up winning. It's the idiotic sense of reality that makes comics so entertaining.

Just saying that if a hero is not used to an enemy, it doesnt really matter. It wont mean that the villain is going to get majority when going up against people out of his league.

batdude123
Originally posted by Inhuman
There have been TONS of instances in comics were a certain hero isnt used to a NEW villain that has just popped up in the scene. 90% of the time it doesnt matter. Hero wins in the end.

Superman will not be used to Mysterios antics, but that doesnt mean that mysterio will have a slight chance at all vs supes.

I'm talking about the fact that Reed wouldn't know what to expect from Joker mentally. Intelligence wise. wink However, in a fight of course the FF win.

Whittdawg92
FF's gonna win, but they'll need more than Reed's help. sometimes his brains are overrated and annoying.

jrodslam
If Joker gets a week of prep, his plan could already be in effect before the F.F even get their 10 min prep.

Mider
you guys always underestimate the joker if he was so dumb how did he take over half the world in like a day

Sixth_Winged
laughing out loud you guys serious or something? Someone street level individual with meager chemistry skills and random crazy drives beating the FF with prep?

People, drugs are bad for you M'kay.

Avalonofthewind
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
laughing out loud you guys serious or something? Someone street level individual with meager chemistry skills and random crazy drives beating the FF with prep?

People, drugs are bad for you M'kay.

So because people disagree with your opinion, they are on drugs? cool

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
So because people disagree with your opinion, they are on drugs? cool

Oh, because that comment screams serious, right?

Avalonofthewind
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Oh, because that comment screams serious, right?

Who knows? It's text.

Mider
that street leveler has had the chance to take over the world more then once and punked lex luthor more then once, even WW, slade, superman etc, hush he may look funny and lose to batman but that dont mean anything do you see batman using his super uber tech in gotham? i use to think what would the JLA want with batman but after you see the kinda tech the guy has you understand you also might wonder why would lex ever want to team up with joker but then you see some of his feats and understand better.

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Who knows? It's text.

Considering, it's happening in the net and not some actual knowledge about the said person, i don't see how someone who should assume it was meant to be a serious knack at the person's situation or should be assumed literally.

batdude123
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
laughing out loud you guys serious or something? Someone street level individual with meager chemistry skills and random crazy drives beating the FF with prep?

People, drugs are bad for you M'kay.

He is a street-leveler only in the physical sense. wink

Avalonofthewind
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Considering, it's happening in the net and not some actual knowledge about the said person, i don't see how someone who should assume it was meant to be a serious knack at the person's situation or should be assumed literally.

Who's assuming? That is why a question was asked...

It's wrong to assume that I assumed. cool

RogerRamjet
well i would like to have a slight change of scenario here..how about Joker making a deal with Batman, which says that if Batman provides all his technological rescources and his know-how, Joker in exchange leaves Gotham City forever.

now Joker can fall back on to Bats rescources combined with his evil genius mind, i'm quite positve that Joker and Batman can come up with a way to beat the FF...

i'd say they can snatch 4/10

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by batdude123
He is a street-leveler only in the physical sense. wink

laughing out loud and what other sense is he not?

Grimm22
Wow, can you say spite thread stick out tongue

Joker is WAY out of his leauge her.

FF 100/10

ST0RM SHAD0W
FOOLS!!!

ALL OF YOU!!!

Joker wins this more then not.

Jokers global, maybe even cosmic, not street level.

ThePittman

grey fox
Fantastic four with ease , Joker's prep suck's. If you want a evil street leveler. Go for joker.

If you want a guy who can take out a group who've taken down god-like comics call for Luthor.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by jrodslam
If Joker gets a week of prep, his plan could already be in effect before the F.F even get their 10 min prep. I don't think prep things can take effect before the battle actually starts.
Originally posted by RogerRamjet
well i would like to have a slight change of scenario here..how about Joker making a deal with Batman, which says that if Batman provides all his technological rescources and his know-how, Joker in exchange leaves Gotham City forever.

now Joker can fall back on to Bats rescources combined with his evil genius mind, i'm quite positve that Joker and Batman can come up with a way to beat the FF...

i'd say they can snatch 4/10 Meh, no outside help.. and besides... imo the FF would still win.

who?-kid
Let me see... Doom (more powerful, smarter and more dangerous than Joker) can not beat the FF. So why would Joker stand a chance ?

Of course we can all write stories in which the Joker sets up a million bombs and so, but let's try to be at least a little bit realistic : Joker is cunning, but so is Reed.

Whittdawg92
geez people, there are 2 different kinda smarts. Reed is book smart, Joker is street smart, and evil crazy genius smart.

who?-kid
Originally posted by Whittdawg92
geez people, there are 2 different kinda smarts. Reed is book smart, Joker is street smart, and evil crazy genius smart.
Reed is ALSO booksmart, but in a fight he's an extremely fast thinker.

The thing is, Joker is smart and all, but he needs prep (and knowledge of Batman and such) before he can really kick ass. Reed thinks on the fly.

Sixth_Winged
It really doesn't matter that much whatever kind of smart person Joker is. Having an almost impervious body w/ power and probably the smartest human mind in MU spells trouble to whatever brand of intelligence he is. Against bigger threats, with 10 minutes, he could just ask Thing to carry out that class four disentregrator seen from annihilation and take out a whole city. Joker is just a small fry compared to what he's packing. As if that's not enough, his fighting not only him but his other 3 teamates who can deal with him solo and acts as helpers to execute whatever tactics he might come up with on their fight.

batdude123
Originally posted by grey fox
Fantastic four with ease , Joker's prep suck's. If you want a evil street leveler. Go for joker.

If you want a guy who can take out a group who've taken down god-like comics call for Luthor.

Yes, but Joker has outsmarted Luthor before. Happy Dance

jbsuperbat
this is a joke ff is the biggest piece of $hit superheros ive ever seen joker is way to smart and crazy for them to handle ff should just do the world a favor and kill themselves

Grimm22
Originally posted by batdude123
That's because Batman has experience with Joker and how his mind works, Reed doesn't. roll eyes (sarcastic)

The FF takes on Doom no expression

Doom >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joker

Black Adam
Originally posted by jbsuperbat
this is a joke ff is the biggest piece of $hit superheros ive ever seen joker is way to smart and crazy for them to handle ff should just do the world a favor and kill themselves

wow...........

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by jbsuperbat
this is a joke ff is the biggest piece of $hit superheros ive ever seen joker is way to smart and crazy for them to handle ff should just do the world a favor and kill themselves Good job! With that comment, you just won the price of being the Dumbest Newbie of the Week!!! Better thank your parents for the price too, nobody with normal genes can be that idiotic.

batdude123
Originally posted by Grimm22
The FF takes on Doom no expression

Doom >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joker

That's not true. Besides, Reed wouldn't know what to expect. Joker is a crazy motherf*cker.

Grimm22
Originally posted by batdude123
That's not true. Besides, Reed wouldn't know what to expect. Joker is a crazy motherf*cker.

Are you f***ing kidding me What the f**k?

Joker has absolutly nothing on Reed or Doom no

Joker gets curbstomped by any member of the FF

batdude123
Originally posted by Grimm22
Are you f***ing kidding me What the f**k?

Joker has absolutly nothing on Reed or Doom no

Joker gets curbstomped by any member of the FF

Joker has outthought the best minds in the DC universe. That includes Slade, Lex Luthor, Ra's Al Guhl, and plenty more. He's been a universal threat countless amounts of times. He's crazy, he thinks on a whim, and nobody expects what he is up to. His mind is so twisted, that even the Spectre is afraid of entering it. You sir, are the one who is underrestimating the Joker. I find your lack of knowledge about him amusing. However, I am NOT saying that Joker is smarter than Reed OR Doom. You put those words in mouth. However, I don't think Doom is THAT much smarter than Joker, like you think. However, the FF would utterly rape Joker in a fight.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by batdude123
Joker has outthought the best minds in the DC universe. That includes Slade, Lex Luthor, Ra's Al Guhl, and plenty more. He's been a universal threat countless amounts of times. He's crazy, he thinks on a whim, and nobody expects what he is up to. His mind is so twisted, that even the Spectre is afraid of entering it. You sir, are the one who is underrestimating the Joker. I find your lack of knowledge about him amusing. However, I am NOT saying that Joker is smarter than Reed OR Doom. You put those words in mouth. However, I don't think Doom is THAT much smarter than Joker, like you think. However, the FF would utterly rape Joker in a fight.

Ehh...Joker isn't smart. He's crazy. He's outsmarted those people because he is insane. Not because he is smart. Doctor Doom is MUCH smarter then Joker, in both intelligence and outsmarting. Doctor Doom has outsmarted Beyonder, Silver Surfer, Memphisto (in his own realm, even) and all the heroes in the world during Emperor Doom saga. We don't probably need to even talk about his intelligence in such things as inventions and knowledge and magics.

jrodslam
^ Joker isnt smart? confused

Yea hes crazy and thats the reason for his twisted crimes, but hes also intelligent.

batdude123
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Ehh...Joker isn't smart. He's crazy. He's outsmarted those people because he is insane. Not because he is smart. Doctor Doom is MUCH smarter then Joker, in both intelligence and outsmarting. Doctor Doom has outsmarted Beyonder, Silver Surfer, Memphisto (in his own realm, even) and all the heroes in the world during Emperor Doom saga. We don't probably need to even talk about his intelligence in such things as inventions and knowledge and magics.

What? The Joker is a genius through and through. You can't just claim that he is able to do the things he does because he is "insane." I even said that Doom was smarter, however Joker is a genius as well. Btw, Me>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You big grin stick out tongue Happy Dance

DarkCrawler
Well, yeah, he is smart, but not nowhere close to Reed/Doom smartness. I don't think he would be able to do the things he does with his smarts only.

batdude123
Namor=Poopface. yes

DarkCrawler
http://www.route66-clothing.com/images2/66no.gif

jrodslam
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Well, yeah, he is smart, but not nowhere close to Reed/Doom smartness. I don't think he would be able to do the things he does with his smarts only.

I agree.

Although he wuoldnt be able to make the tings they do, hed just steal it.

batdude123
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Well, yeah, he is smart, but not nowhere close to Reed/Doom smartness. I don't think he would be able to do the things he does with his smarts only.

Yeah, even though he out thought Lex Luthor before. no expression

DarkCrawler
Memphisto/Beyonder >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(x100)Lex Luthor

And how did he outthought Lex, if I may ask...?

batdude123
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Memphisto/Beyonder >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(x100)Lex Luthor

And how did he outthought Lex, if I may ask...?

He figured out how to use the philosophy stone within minutes while it took Luthor months.

Grimm22
Originally posted by batdude123
He figured out how to use the philosophy stone within minutes while it took Luthor months.

Not because he's a genius, because he's insane no expression

Grimm22
Besides the reason that Joker is a good villan is because he's insane, twisted and unpredicitble. Not smart no

There is nothing Joker can do to the FF to hurt them. no

Ben squishes his head in.

Johnny turns him to ashes.

Reed twists around him so tight that he falls in half.

Sue puts a bubble in his brain.

End of Story no expression

batdude123
Originally posted by Grimm22
Besides the reason that Joker is a good villan is because he's insane, twisted and unpredicitble. Not smart no

There is nothing Joker can do to the FF to hurt them. no

Ben squishes his head in.

Johnny turns him to ashes.

Reed twists around him so tight that he falls in half.

Sue puts a bubble in his brain.

End of Story no expression

Are you f*ckin kidding me? If you want to call Joker "not smart," you might as well call Batman a "dumbass" as well. Serious underestimation of Joker here. Let's just drop the subject of the FF for one minute here. It's obvious they kick his ass all day long. However, are you seriously trying to tell me that Joker is not smart? Pfffft. roll eyes (sarcastic) That's like saying the Hulk isn't strong.

batdude123
Originally posted by Grimm22
Not because he's a genius, because he's insane no expression

Oh give me a f*ckin break. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Juntai
Originally posted by TheKahn
I just have a hard time figuring out what exactly the Joker could come up with in a week that would win the fight for him. All the FF have to do is get Sue to create a force bubble in his brain or have Johnny use a nova blast to end the fight in a matter of seconds. Now maybe explosives or gas attacks would work if the FF didn't have any time to defend themselves from them, but Sue should be able to protect them from just about anything I can imagine the Joker can throw at them.

But I may be underestimating the Joker here. erm Exactly what resources does he have to work with? Assuming he didn't waste away his time, in a literal handful of minutes he developed a plot and took over the western hemisphere before.

batdude123
Originally posted by Juntai
Assuming he didn't waste away his time, in a literal handful of minutes he developed a plot and took over the western hemisphere before.

And Grimm22 thinks he's not smart. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Juntai
Lets also not forget outsmarting Mxy and then using his power to temporarily take over the universe. Granted it's believable Mxy was just playing, as he typically is shown to know the future.

batdude123
Originally posted by Grimm22
Not because he's a genius, because he's insane no expression

Comments like this scare the hell outta me. fear

Grimm22
Originally posted by batdude123
And Grimm22 thinks he's not smart. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Im not saying that he isnt smart, but his smarts mainly come from his insanity no expression

I mean its obvious that he is smart, considering he is able to make all these poisin flowers and gases and whatnot.

Joker's insanity allows him to go beyond normal human levels of intelligence wink

batdude123
Originally posted by Grimm22
Im not saying that he isnt smart, but his smarts mainly come from his insanity no expression

I mean its obvious that he is smart, considering he is able to make all these poisin flowers and gases and whatnot.

Joker's insanity allows him to go beyond normal human levels of intelligence wink

You stated "Not because he's a genius, because he's insane" which implies that he is insane but not smart. no expression That's what threw me off.

Grimm22
Originally posted by batdude123
You stated "Not because he's a genius, because he's insane" which implies that he is insane but not smart. no expression That's what threw me off.

I can understand that, but im not saying he isnt smart, im just saying its a different kind of smarts. wink

Mider
it looks like the same kind of smarts he has to be both smart and genius or he wouldnt have invented the venom he did that took over half the world

Sixth_Winged
Jeez. This thread shouldn't reach 4 pages now.

I'm suprised at the amount of Joker cock-stroking happening in thise thread. Joker = batman now huh? Well if you guys say yes, then ask yourselves who'll win with batman vs. FF and you'll see clearly the clown doesn't have a friggin chance. FF has too many gadgets just lying around as old junk in the baxter building that could take care of anything joker can come up with on his own. period.

MrHeavySilence
Originally posted by Soljer
Tell me, then, are you arguing that the Joker could take this? What the f**k?

Well, Batdude is just saying that Reed doesn't know Joker particularly well. For example, in The Amazing Spiderman- Happy Birthday Arc- Reed jumped to conclusions and almost got everyone killed by reconstituting Dorammu on accident while trying to imprison the Mindless Ones. That mistake almost created an alternate future where everybody got killed by Dorammu (you can actually see Thor dead in that splash page).

Dr.Strange - "You are seeing the moments before Dorammu arrived, and the future after all were slain trying to stop him. But for the moment it still remains a possible future."

Luckily, Dr.Strange used everything he had to push Spidey back in time and stop Reed from messing up.

So, the point is, Reed doesn't know Joker that well and it is very plausible that he could screw up, and end up having a bigger fight on his hands. Batman knows how Joker thinks, thus, never gets in that kind of predicament. Also, despite Reed's scientific genius, I don't think he could calculate the moves of an insane clown. He doesn't think like 2 + 2 = 5, heck, he has trouble believing in magic. Luckily, the Fantastic Four is very, very powerful. So they win 7/10.

DarkCrawler
So...according to you...

Dormammu = Joker?

Reed could never screw up as bad with Joker that he could end up dead. ESPECIALLY with entire Fantastic Four at his side. Seriously, tell me what Joker could come up on his own that Fantastic Four couldn't counter? Especially when they have time to get whatever they want from Baxter Building?

MrHeavySilence
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
So...according to you...

Dormammu = Joker?

No, just that Reed can conceivably screw up against the unpredictable.

Reed could never screw up as bad with Joker that he could end up dead. ESPECIALLY with entire Fantastic Four at his side.

Well, he had Spidey, Cyclops, Thor, Thing, and Iron Man on his side when he was tricked into unleashing Dorammu... who then ended up killing them all in the alternate timeline where Dr.Strange didn't send Spidey back to warn Reeds, so... it is "conceivable" that the FF could at least lose (not die, I said lose).

Seriously, tell me what Joker could come up on his own that Fantastic Four couldn't counter? Especially when they have time to get whatever they want from Baxter Building?

Of course FF could counter what Joker comes up with. But it's not going to be an easy 'Wham Bam Thank You Mam"-type breeze. Joker is unpredictable; if he got his hands on some magic, then the FF could feasibly have to regroup after a loss.

Like I said though, this is all theoretical and the FF are really strong, so they still take the majority.

DarkCrawler
But when Joker doesn't have anything that the FF can't counter (I doubt that he has very powerful magic, if magic at all). I have hard time believeing that he can achive anything in a week. Maybe if he had a month.

MrHeavySilence
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
But when Joker doesn't have anything that the FF can't counter (I doubt that he has very powerful magic, if magic at all). I have hard time believeing that he can achive anything in a week. Maybe if he had a month.

Hmm..you're right. Joker could probably do it in a month or something, a week is too soon.

Up In Flames
The fight gets interrupted by Batman coming in saying to the Joker "I thought we had something?"

who?-kid
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
No, just that Reed can conceivably screw up against the unpredictable.

Dormammu is a magical powerhouse. Dr. Strange fears Dormammu.

Reed didn't know Dormammu was trying to put himself back together - he couldn't know that - but Strange, who is of course a million times more clever when talking about magic, suspected a trap and warned Richards (too late).

Richards is one of THE smartest people on Earth. Magic however isn't his forte. I really don't see how this increases Jokers chances. Not that he has chances.

Mider
who in DC can be compared to richards or doom? who is a human or from earth at least

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