The End of the Jedi Order & the Fall of The Republic is Mace Windu's Fault!

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FistOfThe North
He didn't let Anakin fulfill the prophesy.

Anakin: I must go with you

Mace: No! Stay here. I sense much confusion in you Skywalker. If what you say is true, then you will have gained my trust.

Mace disrupted the prophesy and so she pulled the rug right out from under Mace, The Jedi Order and the Republic's feet.

Mace tempted fate, and it cost everyone everything, to the point where fate had to rea

FistOfThe North
to the point that fate had to start all over and involve his son.

Sith Master X
True, but I think Mace believed that what he was doing was right. He sensed that there was much confusion in Anakin, and that his relationship with Palpatine could lead him into making a poor decision.

Even if Anakin had went with Mace, he still probably would have bought into Palpatine's seduction.

PVS
you have a point, but an inconsequential one. anakin would have never killed palpatine, because he was already seduced by the darkside. it still would have ended up with anakin as a sith because he was already seduced by talks of saving his wife.

:edit: shit...didnt realise smx got it

Mushi
Originally posted by Sith Master X
True, but I think Mace believed that what he was doing was right. He sensed that there was much confusion in Anakin, and that his relationship with Palpatine could lead him into making a poor decision.

Even if Anakin had went with Mace, he still probably would have bought into Palpatine's seduction.

Agreed. Although Mace did play a part in the downfall, but that was because he took such SHIT Jedi to confront Palpatine. xD

chinabing
Mace HAD Palpatine beaten, but Anakin walked in and cut off Mace's hand.

When I took my 12-year-old niece to see Revenge of the Sith, she said "Mace Windu was too mean to Anakin."

I kind of chuckled, but hey she might have a point.

As long as we're Monday-morning-quarterbacking, if I were Mace, I would have asked Anakin in the hanger, "What's troubling you, young Skywalker?"

Then Mace shoulda called a message to every single Jedi warning of Palpatine. Then he should have called a Senator and asked for a special session of the Senate to inform the galaxy.

overlord
Mace was skeptical and was one of the most powerful council members, you could probably accuse him of a bit of arrogance but that doesn't matter.
But to blame him for the fall of the jedi order.. As if everything depends on him or something. He might have come across as a sort of representative of the jedi order but he is just one of them, not the top boss or something.
Who the hell cares, these blame game threads are so pointless..

FistOfThe North
But that's not what I'm talking about. Mace messed around with and disrupted the prophesy (or time continuum). Anakin would'nt of have fell, fate would've saw to that, even though it may've seemed like Anakin would've gave in but he wouldn't of. Hell Anakin was bleeding to kill Palpatine right then and there at his office even after Palps tried to convince him, but he did it the Jedi way and reported him.

Mace pissed fate off. And because of that, because of him, everyone involved paid the price. Simple as that.

PVS
the prophesy was already disrupted from the time palpatine met anakin as a child.

chinabing
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
But that's not what I'm talking about. Mace messed around with and disrupted the prophesy (or time continuum). Anakin would'nt of have fell, fate would've saw to that, even though it may've seemed like Anakin would've gave in but he wouldn't of. Hell Anakin was bleeding to kill Palpatine right then and there at his office even after Palps tried to convince him, but he did it the Jedi way and reported him.

Mace pissed fate off. And because of that, because of him, everyone involved paid the price. Simple as that. I don't know about your point. The prophesy does not run on a timeline or continuum. We don't know that Mace disrupted anything.

We simply don't know that Anakin would not have fallen if he had joined Mace to arrest the chancellor.

(Next time you watch the revelation scene, watch Palpatine's hands as he and Anakin circle each other. Palpatine's hands are twitching... he's half-ready to ignite his own lightsaber against Anakin, but he doesn't.)

Mace did not anger fate or the force or whatever you call it. There is no proof. All we know of the prophesy is what was said on screen, and it is not so clear as to say Mace messed it up.

FistOfThe North
Originally posted by chinabing
I don't know about your point. The prophesy does not run on a timeline or continuum. We don't know that Mace disrupted anything.

We simply don't know that Anakin would not have fallen if he had joined Mace to arrest the chancellor.

(Next time you watch the revelation scene, watch Palpatine's hands as he and Anakin circle each other. Palpatine's hands are twitching... he's half-ready to ignite his own lightsaber against Anakin, but he doesn't.)

Mace did not anger fate or the force or whatever you call it. There is no proof. All we know of the prophesy is what was said on screen, and it is not so clear as to say Mace messed it up.

Well we know Anakin's previous reaction to Palpatine's revelation when Palpatine said:

Palpatine: You want to kill me, don't you.

Anakin: (pissed) I would certainly like to!

I think if Anakin didn't tell anyone in the Order, returning without Mace, deciding to be the hero and kill Palpatine and fulfill the prophesy, everything would've been fine. Mace would've been upset momentarily but he would've realized that Anakin was the chosen one. and praise Anakin later on.

RogerRamjet
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
He didn't let Anakin fulfill the prophesy.

Anakin: I must go with you

Mace: No! Stay here. I sense much confusion in you Skywalker. If what you say is true, then you will have gained my trust.

Mace disrupted the prophesy and so she pulled the rug right out from under Mace, The Jedi Order and the Republic's feet.

Mace tempted fate, and it cost everyone everything, to the point where fate had to rea

that's not true...Anakin did fulfill the prophescy..only 20 years later as Darth Vader when he sacrificed his own life and killed the Emperor to save his son...
Mace only did what he thought was best...he sensed the turmoil in Anakins feelings and he knew that he would pose a problem when he was about to deal with Palpatine...and as we all know he was right...

PVS
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Well we know Anakin's previous reaction to Palpatine's revelation when Palpatine said:

Palpatine: You want to kill me, don't you.

Anakin: (pissed) I would certainly like to!

I think if Anakin didn't tell anyone in the Order, returning without Mace, deciding to be the hero and kill Palpatine and fulfill the prophesy, everything would've been fine. Mace would've been upset momentarily but he would've realized that Anakin was the chosen one. and praise Anakin later on.

you still dont get it.
anakin was not going to kill palpatine anyway.
he wanted him alive to find out how to stop padme from dying.
this is made painfully clear by showing his complete hatred for him,
but refusal to strike him down.

MC_GG
Either way Anakin became Vader, but also fulfilled the prophecy.

Blue_Hefner
The only person at fault here is Palpatine so don't place the blame on anyone but him.

Council#13
There were several reasons why Mace didn't allow Anakin to come along, all of them valid.

1. Mace knew about Anakin's feelings about Palpatine; Palpatine was like a second Master, or like his father. Mace never intended to "arrest" Palpatine, but instead kill him. He knew that Anakin would try to prevent this.
2. In Shatterpoint, Mace said in one of his journal entries that if Anakin was the Chosen One, then as long as he was alive there was hope for the Jedi, and that every Jedi would sacrafice his or her life in order to protect the Order. He didn't want to run the risk of loosing Anakin, as Sith don't feel attachments. Even if Anakin was killed, Palpatine would have executed Order 66, and send the 501st Legion to destroy the Jedi Temple.
3. Mace knew about Anakin's raging emotions, and something like choosing between the Jedi and the man was like his father could easily push him to the Dark Side, as could be seen in ROTS. He knew how powerful Anakin already was, and with the Dark Side, few Jedi, if any (according to Mace's thinking) would be able to stop him.
4. Mace probably would have taken the minimum number of Jedi Masters nessecary to take down the Sith. He would have wanted to keep as many Jedi as possible in the Temple in case he and the Masters were killed.

JaehSkywalker
maybe if anakin died Palpy'd get his son *luke* and take him as his apprentice...

guess... and i don't think its good at all...

Caden_Amor
Holy frickin crap

Okay firstly, let me please explain what balance means

That means all things equal, in harmony. Nothing stronger or more overpowering than anything else.

So when you take something like... say... the Force, and you say that its going to be 'balanced' one would say that it must be influenced, wielded, observed, whatever by equally dark and light forces. Which means, in turn... that if there are a buncha hecka jedi in the galaxy, and only 2 sith... well thats not balanced at all.

What no one here seems to realize is that the Jedi, in their infinite arrogance and false wisdom, misinterpreted the prophecy, or at least its meaning. Anakin Skywalker did bring balance to the Force. At the end of RotS, how many sith were there? And how many Jedi were there? Hmm... lemme think... 2!

Obi-wan and Yoda

Darth Vader and Palpatine

Balanced. Balanced. End of discussion. What you gotta realize is that Mace Windu neither messed up nor affirmed Anakin's destiny. He was just there. Had Mace not done anything, Anakin still would have brought balance to the Force. So its no one's fault, its destiny.

I would have thought more people would have realized this... I mean, in RotS, Yoda even says, "A prophecy misread, could have been."

How much more obvious do you need it?

Darth Vious
I'd say Anakin did bring balance to the Force. By the end of RotS, there were two powerfull Jedi (Obi-Wan and Yoda) and two powerfull Sith (Palpatine and Vader) with a handfull of Force users on either side under them. That is balance. Balance doesn't mean Good beating Evil, because that is not balance. Balance is Good and Evil existing in equal amounts.

PVS
Originally posted by Caden_Amor
Holy frickin crap

Okay firstly, let me please explain what balance means

That means all things equal, in harmony. Nothing stronger or more overpowering than anything else.

So when you take something like... say... the Force, and you say that its going to be 'balanced' one would say that it must be influenced, wielded, observed, whatever by equally dark and light forces. Which means, in turn... that if there are a buncha hecka jedi in the galaxy, and only 2 sith... well thats not balanced at all.

What no one here seems to realize is that the Jedi, in their infinite arrogance and false wisdom, misinterpreted the prophecy, or at least its meaning. Anakin Skywalker did bring balance to the Force. At the end of RotS, how many sith were there? And how many Jedi were there? Hmm... lemme think... 2!

Obi-wan and Yoda

Darth Vader and Palpatine

Balanced. Balanced. End of discussion. What you gotta realize is that Mace Windu neither messed up nor affirmed Anakin's destiny. He was just there. Had Mace not done anything, Anakin still would have brought balance to the Force. So its no one's fault, its destiny.

I would have thought more people would have realized this... I mean, in RotS, Yoda even says, "A prophecy misread, could have been."

How much more obvious do you need it?

not again. george lucas already confirmed that the above concept of balance meaning 2-jedi and 2-sith is utter horseshit.

Captain REX
Indeed. Any and all discussion pertaining to Balance being 2 Jedi and 2 Sith can die a horrible, painful, flaming death.

Legion_of_Maul
mace was doing what any black person who participated in shaft would do, steal the glory for himself.

PVS
Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
mace was doing what any black person who participated in shaft would do, steal the glory for himself.

bad connection. if anything, by playing shaft he's paying homage and even standing in richard roundtree's shadow.

Captain REX
Word. raver

Council#13
Stealing glory, like Kofi Annan raver

Caden_Amor
Originally posted by PVS
not again. george lucas already confirmed that the above concept of balance meaning 2-jedi and 2-sith is utter horseshit.

can you provide the link to said information? When/where/why did he say that? I've never heard of any of that before. Besides, theres no way to simply dissuade a discussion by cursing and commanding me to die by flames. This is ridiculous. This is exactly why I left the last time. No one here has any real points or purpose to anyone's arguements, its all just flaming.

Ah, pointlesseness.

overlord
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
But that's not what I'm talking about. Mace messed around with and disrupted the prophesy (or time continuum). Anakin would'nt of have fell, fate would've saw to that, even though it may've seemed like Anakin would've gave in but he wouldn't of. Hell Anakin was bleeding to kill Palpatine right then and there at his office even after Palps tried to convince him, but he did it the Jedi way and reported him.

Mace pissed fate off. And because of that, because of him, everyone involved paid the price. Simple as that. OMG he messed with the time continuum!! You watch too much Star Trek. He didn't mess with anything just because he was cautious and skeptical and who are you to tell as a fact that if Anakin would have also come that he would've killed Sidious.
He just didn't want him harmed as he believed that there was a chance Padme could be saved by him.

PVS
Originally posted by Caden_Amor
can you provide the link to said information? When/where/why did he say that? I've never heard of any of that before. Besides, theres no way to simply dissuade a discussion by cursing and commanding me to die by flames. This is ridiculous. This is exactly why I left the last time. No one here has any real points or purpose to anyone's arguements, its all just flaming.

Ah, pointlesseness.

i never commanded you to die in flames. i only said it was horseshit. horseshit is defined as a mistruth which is genuinely believed by the naive....which is exactly what you posted. and coming from someone who posted paragraphs of belittling and condescending ranting, i would call you a bit hypocritical for then turning around and showing soft thin skin when confronted with the word "horseshit".

anyway, with baseless accusations of flaming toward me aside, here is the quote you requested:



as for a link, they are all over the place. just google the quote.

FistOfThe North
Originally posted by overlord
OMG he messed with the time continuum!! You watch too much Star Trek. He didn't mess with anything just because he was cautious and skeptical and who are you to tell as a fact that if Anakin would have also come that he would've killed Sidious.
He just didn't want him harmed as he believed that there was a chance Padme could be saved by him.

I, watch Star Trek? Die slow!, lol (i actually got that phrase from "Back to the Future"wink Fcuk Roddenberry!!!

cool

But Mace seemingly knew what the prophesy foretold (how it would happen and by whom.) Now would'nt getting involve complicate things? its how i see it.

OB1-adobe
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
He didn't let Anakin fulfill the prophesy.

Anakin: I must go with you

Mace: No! Stay here. I sense much confusion in you Skywalker. If what you say is true, then you will have gained my trust.

Mace disrupted the prophesy and so she pulled the rug right out from under Mace, The Jedi Order and the Republic's feet.

Mace tempted fate, and it cost everyone everything, to the point where fate had to rea


Anikan could have fulfilled it a few minutes before when he had Palps at bay with his saber.

Actually its Lucas's fault, the Jedi Order died cuz Lucas wrote it that way.

Its a movie, Its over, Move on.... Nerds

overlord
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I, watch Star Trek? Die slow!, lol (i actually got that phrase from "Back to the Future"wink Fcuk Roddenberry!!!

cool

But Mace seemingly knew what the prophesy foretold (how it would happen and by whom.) Now would'nt getting involve complicate things? its how i see it. You've got a scary way of spelling.. pirate

FistOfThe North
Originally posted by overlord
You've got a scary way of spelling.. pirate

And you've got a scary way of making sense. In an entertaining kinda way.

Ganner Rhysode
If Anakin came along, odds are Palpatine would have tricked him into helping him kill Mace. Mace stood a better chance by himself.

JediRobin23
I dont see how Mace can ignore the confusion in Anakin, and let Anakin go along with him.

fritzyboy2
Originally posted by MC_GG
Either way Anakin became Vader, but also fulfilled the prophecy.
But if you ask me, Obiwan shauld have killed anakin and kick him so hard he fell into the lava, and then look for yoda and kick palpatines butt 2, then everything would be fine

Archangelysses
but then no 4 5 6

coolmovies
Ya its part of the story ^ i agree i blame anakin for all this

l.saratn
i really don't think that Master Windu is to blame O_O

Forcewielder
Originally posted by JediRobin23
I dont see how Mace can ignore the confusion in Anakin, and let Anakin go along with him.

Because if Palpatine still attacks them, the confusion will be erased and Anakin will realise that Palps was never going to help him save Padme's life. As it is, Mace jumpstarted the end of the Jedi Order and the Republic by leaving Anakin behind.

Lighthammer
It is not Maces fault. If anything(beside Palpatines and Anakins) it's a combination of Qui Gon, ad Padme. Here's why. Despite the council's warnings, Qui Gon insisted on training the boy, thereby giving him access to learn how to use his power, even though he was too old to begin training. Padme is at fault because once she noticed Anakin getting too close, and as a high ranking member of the Republic politics, she would know the Jedi Order Rules, and should have rebuffed him. This would have been hard for him to take at first, but he would have most likely gotten over it, thereby he wouldn't have sex with Padme, thereby not risking Padme's life with the birth of the baby, thereby Palpatine has nothing to entice Anakin with.Second about rebuffing Anakin to steal glory for himself makes no sense because if that's true why did he bring three other Jedi Masters with him(Fisto, Kolar, and Tinn).

exanda kane
Nope, its just the most dramamtic way Lucas thought he could put things.

Captain REX
What happened is nobody's fault. If you want to blame SOMEONE, blame Palpatine.

pr1983
Originally posted by Captain REX
What happened is nobody's fault. If you want to blame SOMEONE, blame Palpatine.

Pretty much... Palpatine manipulated Padme, the Senate, the Jedi, and he even offered Anakin the only bait he knew Ani would never resist...

Mace had nothing to do with it... in fact, had Anakin been a minute too late Palps would be dead and Mace would have saved the Republic from becoming the Empire...

Alliance
Mace was hyopcritical and that convinced anakin to turn against the jedi.

He had SOMETHING to do with it.

Lighthammer
How was Mace hypocritical?

Kaos sebaceous
Originally posted by Captain REX
What happened is nobody's fault. If you want to blame SOMEONE, blame Palpatine. yea palps is a fruitcake mad

Alliance
Originally posted by Lighthammer
How was Mace hypocritical?

SO anakin has the whole spiel about killing an unarmed prisoner right? He feels guilty for doing it. Its against the Jedi code.

Then he sees Mace, who treats him like an ass, and who is supposed to be better than him, go and attempt to kill an unarmed prisoner.

You don't think Anakin would have felt the slightest trace of hypocrisy?

Lighthammer
First off difference. Dooku posed no threat he did not control the senates, or the courts, he also did not command the clones, and most likely did not know the code(though he probably knew the plan) Order 66.However, Palpatine controlled all of those things and posed a threat. Plus he wasn't unarmed, cause he used force lighting. Also Anakin killed Dooku just because the chancellor said so, with no knowledge of why he was asked to do that, whereas Mace, who was originally going to put him on trial, saw three fellow Masters fall by Palpatine in short battle, this allowed Mace to realize that he posed too much of a threat to be left alive, as he would just get out of it by manipulating the government.And with how easily he decided to kill Dooku, he probably would have let Mace do it, if Palpatine had nothing to offer, which because of him breaking the Jedi code, and the risk of Padme dying in child birth, gave Palpatine the way to persuade Anakin. And the reason Anakin attacked Mace was not because of the socalled hypocrasy, but because if Mace killed Palpatine, then Padme would suposedly not be able to saved, if she would actually have needed to be if Anakin hadn't killed Mace.

Darth Subjekt
actually, eveything that happened, was meant to happen that way. That WAS the prophecy. You cant alter fate. If youre destined to die, then you will die. The jedi order had to fall in order to save Anakin. I dont think the events of Luke's life would have played out the same had the order not fallen.

Captain REX
The Prophecy was that the Chosen One would bring balance to the Force. It doesn't specify how things are supposed to happen. wink

Originally posted by Alliance
SO anakin has the whole spiel about killing an unarmed prisoner right? He feels guilty for doing it. Its against the Jedi code.

Then he sees Mace, who treats him like an ass, and who is supposed to be better than him, go and attempt to kill an unarmed prisoner.

You don't think Anakin would have felt the slightest trace of hypocrisy?

Mace is not being hypocritical, he's being reasonable. Palpatine controls the Republic, the courts, the army, etc. The Senate, corrupt and needing the leadership Palpy provides, would most likely not vote to jail Palpy or have him executed. And most likely Palpy would escape jail anyways. The list of stuff that would happen if Palpy was just arrested goes on and on and on.

Palpatine is pure evil, Mace wanted to extricate the evil before it got to be a bigger problem than it already was.

Enter Anakin. Anakin was, what, 22? It wasn't just Windu that felt Anakin shouldn't be granted Master, though they put him on the Council. ESPECIALLY since they could all feel his emotional confusion.

Plus, Anakin's view of the Jedi was twisted by Palpy, so if he had seen hypocrisy, it would have been because Palpy made it so.

On top of that, Anakin only wanted Palpatine to live so he could save Padme, as we all know...

Anakin hated the Jedi because of Palpatine, not because of Mace.

pr1983
Originally posted by Alliance
SO anakin has the whole spiel about killing an unarmed prisoner right? He feels guilty for doing it. Its against the Jedi code.

Then he sees Mace, who treats him like an ass, and who is supposed to be better than him, go and attempt to kill an unarmed prisoner.

You don't think Anakin would have felt the slightest trace of hypocrisy?

mace treats him the way he deserves to be treated... anakin constantly disobeys orders and questions the jedi way of life... when he was put on the council but not made a master he behaved like a five year old in a supermarket, he showed no respect towards the council or mace...

and palps is a SITH LORD... mace was spot on when he said "he's too dangerous to be kept alive," and imo at least, mace was right in wanting to kill palpatine...

not forgetting the fact that palpatine killed three jedi already...

mace wasnt hypocritical whatsoever... he needed to kill palpatine to preserve the jedi order... sometimes an act of evil is required to protect the greater good... erm

anakin's gullability in believing palpatine's baseless claims is what led to him betraying the jedi, not mace windu's actions...

Forcewielder
But Mace Windu destroyed the last shred of faith Anakin had left in the Jedi by telling him to stay behind. Anakin had just found out that Palpatine is a Sith Lord so he tells Mace about it and wants to come with him but instead of bringing Anakin along, Mace tells him to stay and that "If what you say is true, then you would have gained my trust". Now why would Mace say that? It's as if he thinks that Anakin made up the stuff he said just to protect Palpatine and he also senses confusion within Anakin but if Mace had brought him along and Palpatine still attacks them, the confusion will be erased as Anakin will realize that PalpSidious was never going to help him save Padme.

As it is, by telling Anakin to stay behind, Mace unwittingly caused him to believe PalpSidious's baseless claims thus leading him to turn traitor against the Jedi.

Alliance
Originally posted by Captain REX
Mace is not being hypocritical, he's being reasonable. Palpatine controls the Republic, the courts, the army, etc. The Senate, corrupt and needing the leadership Palpy provides, would most likely not vote to jail Palpy or have him executed. And most likely Palpy would escape jail anyways. The list of stuff that would happen if Palpy was just arrested goes on and on and on.

No.

The Jedi complain about Palpatine amedning the consitution repeatedly to give himself more power, but the Jedi can amend the Jedi code to give themselves more power?

Is that not hipocrasy?

That aside...Anakin stuggles, fails the Jedi and kills Dooku. Then he sees Mace, the icon of the Jedi order, do the same thing. Is his not to question?

queeq
MAce's action reminds me of that wonderful quote by Eli Wallch from The Good, The Bad and the Ugly: if you're gonna shoot, shoot... don't talk. Or in SW terms: if you're gonna strike, strike.. don't talk endlessly to that whining brat and squealy old man.

Alliance
Yes, that might have solved the Anakin vs Hand issue, but not the hypocrisy.

pr1983
Originally posted by Forcewielder
But Mace Windu destroyed the last shred of faith Anakin had left in the Jedi by telling him to stay behind. Anakin had just found out that Palpatine is a Sith Lord so he tells Mace about it and wants to come with him but instead of bringing Anakin along, Mace tells him to stay and that "If what you say is true, then you would have gained my trust". Now why would Mace say that?

Because anakin knew that the council needed anakin to prove himself, and that they were also worried that anakin was too close to palpatine, which he was...



I don't agree, i think it was done to remove anakin from being exposed to someone as manuipulative as palps, which while being a tad late, i could understand...



I don't think so... i think palpatine could twist it any way he saw fit... if anakin had gone palpatine probably would have been arrested, and would he have ever gone to prison or been removed from the senate? i honestly dont think so...



i dont agree... mace knew anakin was close to palpatine and was conflicted, the last thing he could do was put anakin in a position where he'd be forced to betray either of them...

Originally posted by Alliance
No.

The Jedi complain about Palpatine amedning the consitution repeatedly to give himself more power, but the Jedi can amend the Jedi code to give themselves more power?

Is that not hipocrasy?

Amend the jedi code how? to take over the senate? it was only gong to be short term, and their plans were made with the republics interests at heart... the senate was nothing bit a bunch of politicians who dont really do much... and they were never going to turn on palpatine, they're practically sheep...

the jedi would always return any power to the senate... at their core they are the good guys... getting rid of palpatine was really their main concern...



No... Palpatine was the supreme chancellor, and had just murdered 3 jedi and attempted to do the same to mace... hell, anakin must have saw the jedi bodies, and he saw palpatine try to fry mace...

mace would have been an idiot to allow palpatine to walk away...

he's a friggin SITH LORD... stick out tongue

Originally posted by Alliance
Yes, that might have solved the Anakin vs Hand issue, but not the hypocrisy.

I think the only person really jealous of hypocrisy is palpatine, but he's evil and its to be expected imo...

to be honest, if i were mace, i wouldnt have done much differently...


except maybe bring more jedi... shifty


sorry for the length of the post... embarrasment

Spartan ll

Tangible God

queeq
Too long.

Alliance

ADarksideJedi
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
He didn't let Anakin fulfill the prophesy.

Anakin: I must go with you

Mace: No! Stay here. I sense much confusion in you Skywalker. If what you say is true, then you will have gained my trust.

Mace disrupted the prophesy and so she pulled the rug right out from under Mace, The Jedi Order and the Republic's feet.

Mace tempted fate, and it cost everyone everything, to the point where fate had to rea

I can see what you mean by being his fault.He should had let ankin go with him and he would had not dead.Or try to arrest him just trick him or something.jm cool

queeq
Hmmm dunno...

Council#13
The Fall of the Republic is far from Mace's fault. He knew that the only way to bring peace would be to kill Palpatine, just as the ancient Jedi thought. He knew that Anakin would try to save Palpatine. If anything, it's Anakin's fault that the Republic ended. He killed incapacitated one of the only people capable of taking down Palpatine, then led the attack on the Jedi Temple. As Palpatine said, "If the Jedi learn of what has traspired here, it will be civil war without end." Of course, we know what happens later, but Anakin then removes the only group of people who actually have the power and courage to stand against Palpatine and the Clone Army.

queeq
OKay, we know that. How does that answer teh question about Mace?

Council#13
There was a question about Mace? blink

queeq
No, there wasn't. Go back to sleep...

Council#13
*nods solemnly*

queeq
What's that snoring?

Council#13
It's Ush, pay no mind dodgy

queeq
laughing out loud

pr1983
Originally posted by Alliance
Long, but I like the first sentance...so thumb up

(Dont forget that Mace is one of the leaders for the Jedi order, therfore he bears a lot of the blame)

you really don't like mace do you... stick out tongue

queeq
I liked him better as Jules.

Tangible God
"What does Master Yoda look like?"

Alliance
Originally posted by pr1983
you really don't like mace do you... stick out tongue

I like the character...he's jsut wrong. I think he meant well, but he really f*cked things over imo.

queeq
Explain.

Council#13
Maybe Alliance feels Mace should have simply slashed out Palaptine's throat instead of taking a 10 minute swing in the attempt to behead him

queeq
In which he is right of course... stick out tongue

Council#13
yes

queeq
Party time

Council#13
woot

Alliance
costume party? ninja

queeq
Bondage first, now a costume party??? What the heck is happening to this forum?





























wink

Council#13
It's become a place for bondage ermm Fortunately, I have some experiance in that area. leftright


hmm I think you'd better forget that last part

queeq
I doubt we will... rope-man.

Alliance
Leather is better.

queeq
Ooops, another fetish-dude

Council#13
Diseased, eh? Not to worry!

I am the cure!
http://www.livejournal.com/userpic/42631289/1675316

queeq
I knew you'd like it. wink

Alliance
Waht?

Council#13
Oh, you'd like that, wouldn't you Alliance. mhm But I won't stand for it!

queeq
Yes, you will . Hehehehehe

Alliance
Hah. I have a mod on my side.

pr1983
Originally posted by queeq
I liked him better as Jules.

laughing

Originally posted by Alliance
I like the character...he's jsut wrong. I think he meant well, but he really f*cked things over imo.

well i dont think he was wrong... stick out tongue

Originally posted by queeq
In which he is right of course... stick out tongue

wait... alliance is a guy... shit... my apologies... messed

Alliance
Originally posted by pr1983
wait... alliance is a guy... shit... my apologies... messed

Yes. smile when in doubt. I have my pasic stats in my profile...because I'm not a n00b.

pr1983
Originally posted by Alliance
Yes. smile when in doubt. I have my pasic stats in my profile...because I'm not a n00b.

I don't tend to make a habit of reading profiles unless someone asks me to... so again, my bad...

Alliance
We'll I'm not really offended. smile

I think I come off as pretty masculine though...but oh well.

pr1983
Originally posted by Alliance
We'll I'm not really offended. smile

I think I come off as pretty masculine though...but oh well.

laughing

nah, i just suck at guessing stuff like that...

so yeah, mace...

Alliance

queeq
Wow, you went on a tantrum there. You actually wrote that yourself?

But you're right of course. Too bad we didn't see Anakin slice him up in a good fight. After all that shit from TPM and ROTS he had to take from ole Windu....

pr1983
Originally posted by Alliance
This brings us to Mace Windu. What an arrogant, power-mad, overblown ass. Sith always come in pairs, a master and an apprentice. Jedi always come in pairs too, a don and a bald goomba with a bad attitude and a purple murder stick. It's not enough that Mace decapitated Jango Fett, the blueprint of the clone army under Yoda's croaking command, but he did this right in front of Jango's own beloved son, following the typical Jedi tactic of intimidation and terror. Like all the Jedi, Mace was a bad seed, a powder keg of wanton violence.

I sincerely hope that's sarcasm... are you saying he shouldnt have killed jango?



The sith and the jedi can't share the same galaxy, only one can survive, so mace was (imo), acting to save the jedi...



The senate would never let half of what you just mentioned happen, because their totally (bar a select few) under the emperor's spell...



No he doesn't, he's a jedi, they've been the protectors of the republic for generations, and palpatine was a threat to the republic and the jedi...



I don't think so... mace brought them as a deterrent (admittedly it didnt work), but if palps had come quietly i think mace would have taken him in, not out, as it were...



Wow... seriously... do you actually like any jedi at all? stick out tongue

mace had minutes to make a decision, and time was of the essence...



I think he genuinely wanted to arrest palpatine, but believed palps wouldn't come quietly...



A jedi master and a protector of the republic, not to mention an enemy of the sith (who are EVIL, remember :P)



I honestly think thats way off...



Mace wouldn't need to confer, as i said, time was of the essence, and to be honest, if it was me, i'd want to get my hands on the sith lord asap... erm



Ok... messed



I still think he was right, and i don't believe he was a traitor...

You and i are never going to agree... stick out tongue

sorry for the length of the post, truly i am... embarrasment

queeq
I can't believe you answered that sincerely. laughing out loud

Alliance
Originally posted by queeq
I can't believe you answered that sincerely. laughing out loud

Me neither laughing

I don't sympathise with the sith, but I don't sympathize with the jedi either.

I was glad to see my clones cut them down smile

I like Sam L and Mace, but his character's idoelogy is so twisted it confuses the hell out of me.

pr1983, if you really want me to continue, thats fine, but half of that post was just intended to be humor stick out tongue

queeq
More! More!

Alliance
Originally posted by pr1983
I sincerely hope that's sarcasm... are you saying he shouldnt have killed jango?
Yes. Jagno clearly had depth as a character. "They grow up loyal to the Republic or they don't grow up at all." Hardly a comment from a man who hates the republic and fathered their entire army. How to you think the ARCs liked that Mace killed thier father? I'm sure this helped them go 66. What happened to free trials? Or is it when a Jedi thinks you've done somehting wrong...its just a simple execution.
Originally posted by pr1983
The sith and the jedi can't share the same galaxy, only one can survive, so mace was (imo), acting to save the jedi...
Why? Didn't the Jedi go to kindergarten and lean how to share? The Chancellor was elected. And again, what happened to arrest? Does Mace have a death fetish?
Originally posted by pr1983
The senate would never let half of what you just mentioned happen, because their totally (bar a select few) under the emperor's spell...
The Empror has spells now? Um...ok. I must have missed my witchcraft lessons. Tell me, does Palpatine have a cauldron too? Ever heard of the Petition of the 2000? Clearly all the senators weren't under the Chancellors thumb.
Originally posted by pr1983
No he doesn't, he's a jedi, they've been the protectors of the republic for generations, and palpatine was a threat to the republic and the jedi...
Exactly. Palpatine was a threat to the Jedi. Mace doesn't even think about what's best for the Republic. He just hears the word "Sith" and goes into a bloodthirsty rage. What laws did the Chancellor break that warrants his arrest? Much less his spontaneous execution? Huh?
Originally posted by pr1983
I don't think so... mace brought them as a deterrent (admittedly it didnt work), but if palps had come quietly i think mace would have taken him in, not out, as it were...
If a rabid jedi has a saber at your throat, are you going to go quietly. Palpatine was very right to think that Mace was there to kill him (he was right). He acted in self defence.
Originally posted by pr1983
Wow... seriously... do you actually like any jedi at all? stick out tongue

mace had minutes to make a decision, and time was of the essence...
Yes to the first part. I'm arguing from a more one sided point of view. You'll have to read my fanfic when I finish it.

Mace doesn't think at all, he just kills. Several minutes are plenty of time to think...and he had the whole larty ride over.
Originally posted by pr1983
I think he genuinely wanted to arrest palpatine, but believed palps wouldn't come quietly...
Then having four Jedi draw their sabers on Palpatine is a real funny way of asking "Please come with us."
Originally posted by pr1983
A jedi master and a protector of the republic, not to mention an enemy of the sith (who are EVIL, remember :P)
Umm...where did you read that...FOX News?
Originally posted by pr1983
I honestly think thats way off...
He was certainly very eager to get rid of a democratically elected leader.
Originally posted by pr1983
Mace wouldn't need to confer, as i said, time was of the essence, and to be honest, if it was me, i'd want to get my hands on the sith lord asap... erm
Yes, and what would have happened if Palpatine ran away? The "evil" Sith would have been removed from office and a new chancellor had been elected.

Are you saying law enforcers don't have to know laws before they enforce them?
Originally posted by pr1983
Ok... messed
Seriously.
Originally posted by pr1983
I still think he was right, and i don't believe he was a traitor...You and i are never going to agree... stick out tongue
We might in actuality, but I'm trying to make a point.

Originally posted by pr1983
sorry for the length of the post, truly i am... embarrasment
Next time...make it shorter. My original post was short, cant you at least give me the same courtesy??? :confused" Or are you an @ss like Mace?? stick out tongue

Revan Souer
Ive read alot of what been said and have to say that Mace acting too eagerly to confront Palp. Why not take Ana, he was trusted by Palp which would of made the whole process much easier. However he goes alone and takes an aggressive course of acting, and what crime did Plap comment?

This was brought up in a previous post, but its a very good question. So he's a Sith. Yet thats just a Religion and if the PM or the Pres suddenly turn, I dont know Catholic over night. It wouldnt be a reason to have him arrested. Im sure we can all think of other reasons to do that big grin

I seems a bit of a piss take that the Jedi deside what Faith everyone should have and if THEY deem it as wrong or like people keep saying EVIL they'll kill you for it.

queeq
Hehehe... I love it. Good debate. Clealry Lucas did not think these things through very well.

But I doubt the Clones would hold Jango's death against Mace. They prolly didn't even know he was their DNA-donor.

Alliance
I think they very much did.

queeq
Why do you think that? They're not supposed to think, only DO.

Alliance
Thats clearly not the case. Lucas may try to present it that way....

"Clones can think creatively..." If they can do so in combat, why not in other aspects?

queeq
Because they are made for combat. All other thinking would be... unnecessesary.

Revan Souer
I could be wrong but wasnt Pad's body guard a clone? Why didnt he go all Rambo if they had a vendeta against MACE FOR Fetts beheading?

darth_fidelis
i think jar jar binks was the fault of the fall of the republic.
he took padmes place in episode II while she travelled to naboo.
then he proposed to the senate that they give palpatine emergency powers that eventually led to the creation of the empire at the end of episode III

Revan Souer
Originally posted by darth_fidelis
i think jar jar binks was the fault of the fall of the republic.
he took padmes place in episode II while she travelled to naboo.
then he proposed to the senate that they give palpatine emergency powers that eventually led to the creation of the empire at the end of episode III Good call, but I dont wanna talki about Jar jar as when I do blood runs out my eyes as I try to contain the anger big grin

darth_fidelis
Originally posted by Revan Souer
Good call, but I dont wanna talki about Jar jar as when I do blood runs out my eyes as I try to contain the anger big grin

haha yea i hate jar jar.

darth_fidelis
but then again if jar jar binks hadnt handed over power to paplatine nearly every jedi excluding yoda and the younglings wouldve died on geonosis

Revan Souer
Originally posted by darth_fidelis
haha yea i hate jar jar. I think it goes further than hate to be honest.

On the MACE issue I wonder why didnt Mace take any Troopers with him if he thoigh Palp was such a big threat and they wanted to take him alive?

darth_fidelis
well maybe because the troops genetics had been altered to obey any orders....mainly from palpatine.
so if if palpatine ordered the jedi as traitors, which he eventually did, they would not side with mace but would instead fire on him and the other jedis he brought along.
but i really think it was anakins destiny to join the dark side.
he is the chosen one so maybe he is the one to shose his destiny.

queeq
It was Jedi business I guess.

Alliance
Yeah. The clones are my heroes, but even the commanders wouldn't have understood the Jedi assassination of Palpatine.

I don't think the higher troopers would have cared.

Then again...Mace is an idot and the Order needed to be shreaded anyway.

queeq
We know that, hahaha.

pr1983
Originally posted by queeq
I can't believe you answered that sincerely. laughing out loud

pfft... i (insert badass retort here)

Originally posted by Alliance
Me neither laughing

I don't sympathise with the sith, but I don't sympathize with the jedi either.

I was glad to see my clones cut them down smile

I like Sam L and Mace, but his character's idoelogy is so twisted it confuses the hell out of me.

pr1983, if you really want me to continue, thats fine, but half of that post was just intended to be humor stick out tongue

i couldnt help it, i honestly couldnt... though yeah, there was a hint of ott'ness...

ok i'll stop then... *tries... to... resist... posting...reply...*

so i didnt read your big post... unless you want me to...

queeq
No, I'd rather read your bad a$$ retort.

Alliance
Originally posted by pr1983
pfft... i (insert badass retort here)



i couldnt help it, i honestly couldnt... though yeah, there was a hint of ott'ness...

ok i'll stop then... *tries... to... resist... posting...reply...*

so i didnt read your big post... unless you want me to...

I don't care. stick out tongue

queeq
Uh-oh...

Alliance
orly?

queeq
Orly?

Alliance
RLY.

queeq
???????????????????

Alliance
??????????????????

queeq
In that case: closing.

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