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So yeah who do u think would win...

DD and Wolverine

Realy?

Well...if Night Crawler takes Wolverine and teleports himself and wolvie into space, they'll both die. Than Spider-Man can whoop DD's ass.

NC and SP win.

Originally posted by BlaxicanTroller
Realy?

Well...if Night Crawler takes Wolverine and teleports himself and wolvie into space, they'll both die. Than Spider-Man can whoop DD's ass.

NC and SP win.

i ay spidy and night cralwer win but a diffrent way night cralwer tps wolve to thea volcano were wolve falls in and dies because he tps him to a point were wolve cant reach to put his claws in anything to save himself and night cralwer just tps himself back to help spidy and dd wont beat them both by himself their is to mainy ways for them to beat dd

nightcrawler can't teleport that far 3 miles is the furthest.

Kurt and Spidey win this

Spidey > Wolverine

DD > Nightcrawler

Spidey > DD

As I said...


NC teleports Wolverine up to the maximum height, tahn dropps him. Wolverines flesh splatters off, killing him, than Spider-man takes out DD.

Originally posted by BlaxicanTroller
As I said...


NC teleports Wolverine up to the maximum height, tahn dropps him. Wolverines flesh splatters off, killing him, than Spider-man takes out DD.

ah, of course wolverine just allows nightcrawler to drop him. no nightcrawler telports but when he appears wolverine slices his head off.

Originally posted by The Pict
ah, of course wolverine just allows nightcrawler to drop him. no nightcrawler telports but when he appears wolverine slices his head off.

Because Nightcrawler has the speed/agility/reflexes of newborn child.

Spidey and Nightcrawler win.

Originally posted by The Pict
ah, of course wolverine just allows nightcrawler to drop him. no nightcrawler telports but when he appears wolverine slices his head off.

Ok then, Spider-man and Nightcralwer go in for Wolverine first to fast for DD to react Nightcrawler distracts Wolverine and Spidey webs him up then Spidey goes to fight DD while Nightcrawler starts Teleporting wolverine from great heights.

Alright so first it was Spiderma against DD, Wolvie and Cap. America, now it's Spidey againts DD and Wolvie WITHOUT Cap. America.......And WITH the help of NC?!

Overkill. Team Spidey takes this with the greatest ease.

Nightcrawler distracts wolverine for a while if he doesn't want to risk beating him himself so then spider takes on DD and if he is fighting to his potential that means he can beat DD without as much effort as people think, he KOs him then continues to team wolverine and beat him.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Because Nightcrawler has the speed/agility/reflexes of newborn child. Except for the fact that Wolverine embarrasses Nightcrawler nearly every time they spar. Nightcrawler has admitted in his own series that he could do nothing against Wolverine.

Wolverine's reflexes and speed are also better than Nightcrawler's. Kurt is more agile, that is it.

Every time Kurt teleports at Wolverine he gets put on his ass. He can't compensate for Wolverine's reflexes.

also if nc does fight dd its not much differnt from when hes fights wolverine. dd can jsut smell where he is going to tetlport next.

Nightcrawler can teleport either one (probably Wolverine) away from the fight. Then it becomes Daredevil against Spidey and Nightcrawler, in which Daredevil gets stomped to the ground.

every time NC tries to do something to WOlverrine it never works. it ends up with NC on his BLue ass.

Originally posted by riceroost
Except for the fact that Wolverine embarrasses Nightcrawler nearly every time they spar. Nightcrawler has admitted in his own series that he could do nothing against Wolverine.

Wolverine's reflexes and speed are also better than Nightcrawler's. Kurt is more agile, that is it.

Every time Kurt teleports at Wolverine he gets put on his ass. He can't compensate for Wolverine's reflexes.

Okay. X-23, ya know her? Pretty much a female equivalent of Wolverine?

Yea. She was completely embarassed by Nightcrawler. She has all the same senses and whatnot as Wolverine. If she couldn't sense where he was going, Wolverine is going to have trouble with that as well.

Wolvie beats Nightcrawler because of his Jobber aura. Everyone he fights can't fight to their full potential because they're afraid they'll defeat Wolvie.

Anyway, I digress. Spider-Man and Nightcrawler win.

Originally posted by Anthony$Billy
every time NC tries to do something to WOlverrine it never works. it ends up with NC on his BLue ass.

Which is PIS.

With Nightcrawler's agility, he could simply teleport multiple times around Wolverine. There's no way Wolverine's going to stop him, with both at full potential (including Nightcrawler).

Spider-Man and Nightcrawler have too much agility and versatility.

night crawler can go and drink some lemonade while spiderman beats the crap out of dd and wolverine

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Okay. X-23, ya know her? Pretty much a female equivalent of Wolverine? X-23 is a friggin embarassment. She is not the female equivalent of Wolverine. She is a massive mistake and a blight upon comicdom.

She has also not fought and trained with Nightcrawler for YEARS. Wolverine has and every time NC tries to teleport at Wolverine he gets stopped real fast.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Wolvie beats Nightcrawler because of his Jobber aura.
What a cop-out. You ignore several examples of Wolverine punking Nightcrawler, as well as Nightcrawler's admission that he couldn't beat Wolverine.

Originally posted by FujiFuu
night crawler can go and drink some lemonade while spiderman beats the crap out of dd and wolverine And then Nighcrawler returns to find DD lecturing Wolverine for decapitating Spider-Man.

DD: We're not killers Logan!! We have to be better than that!!
Wolverine: Are you high Matt?

Originally posted by riceroost
X-23 is a friggin embarassment. She is not the female equivalent of Wolverine. She is a massive mistake and a blight upon comicdom.

She has also not fought and trained with Nightcrawler for YEARS. Wolverine has and every time NC tries to teleport at Wolverine he gets stopped real fast.


What a cop-out. You ignore several examples of Wolverine punking Nightcrawler, as well as Nightcrawler's admission that he couldn't beat Wolverine.

No no, I'm ignoring several "examples" of Wolverine punking Nightcrawler because it's pure and utter crap.

Nightcrawler can teleport so many times in an instant that Wolverine would not be able to keep up with him. Wolvie has no precog, and his senses can only alert him after the teleportation has happened. Nightcrawler can port far too fast in multiple successions that Wolvie could not even begin to keep up with him

I am wondering where Jinzin is.....

Originally posted by Metalmanx
No no, I'm ignoring several "examples" of Wolverine punking Nightcrawler because it's pure and utter crap. They are crap in your personal opinion because you dont like Wolverine. In my opinion they have happened far, far too many times to discount them.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Nightcrawler can teleport so many times in an instant that Wolverine would not be able to keep up with him. Wolvie has no precog, and his senses can only alert him after the teleportation has happened. Nightcrawler can port far too fast in multiple successions that Wolvie could not even begin to keep up with him
If Nightcrawler teleports too many times in a quick succession he tires himself out. His endurance is higher than it used to be, but such a feat would still weaken him.

Wolverine's senses appear to be very near to precog on many occasions. Like using his senses to dodge optic blasts from behind without looking, and using them to sense and dodge living lightning. Both of which are much faster than Kurt.

The "BAMF!!" is loud as hell and it happens as soon as Kurt starts teleportation. This obviously alerts Wolverine to what Kurt is doing, therefor he will always be ready for Kurt. Once Kurt comes out of the teleport he Bamfs again and Wolverine's reflexes take care of the rest.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Okay. X-23, ya know her? Pretty much a female equivalent of Wolverine?

Yea. She was completely embarassed by Nightcrawler. She has all the same senses and whatnot as Wolverine. If she couldn't sense where he was going, Wolverine is going to have trouble with that as well.

Wolvie beats Nightcrawler because of his Jobber aura. Everyone he fights can't fight to their full potential because they're afraid they'll defeat Wolvie.

Anyway, I digress. Spider-Man and Nightcrawler win.


X-23 is not the equivalent of wolverine. i like her but she has got nothing on logan.

Nightcrawler got the shaft with powers because everyone can sense it. Daredevil can even say "I sense an atmospheric disturbance nearby." before Nightcrawler's teleport can complete.

Okay I see it this way. NC distracts Wolverine, teleporting around just out of reach of Wolvie, while Spiderman quickly takes out DD. After DD is gone Spiderman encases Wolverine in a web cocoon. Wolverine can break out of the cocoon in about three seconds, but NC only needs two seconds to teleport Wolverine about three miles into the air then teleport back.


NC and SM win.

would that fall be enough to kill wolvey? cause if his skeleton helps protect his vital organs, wouldnt it absorb a lot of the force of hitting the ground? couple with the regen hes got..

His bones wouldn't shatter, but his organs would still be moving at like 80-100 miles an hour. They would spill out of his rib cage and spill out his skin itself, as the skin would burst on contact with the round. Also, all of his blood vessels and arteries would burst spontaneously, and his heart and brain would probably splatter when they ran into the adamantium bones at 80-100 miles an hour. I'm sorry for being so graphic, but what I'm trying to prove is that Wolverine would be dead before his body could regenerate.

well daredevil, being a well...daredevil, could surely find one of those fluffy things they rescue outta building with when they have to jump. wolvey could land on that

Lol.DD would be dead already. Read meh earlier post

oops oh well...he could um...wear a differnt costume so spidey wouldnt recognize him, then he could initiate plan "catch a falling star." and...proceed to being beaten by spiderman http://images.killermovies.com/forums/smilies/cartoon/cool.gif

That...COULD WORK!!! YOUR A GENIUS!!! !!111!!! !!!!11!!

wolverines has had his whole body burnt up by sentinels, including vital organs. this is more than equivalent to falling from great height. i say he'd survive.

Originally posted by Redatom65
nightcrawler can't teleport that far 3 miles is the furthest.Hmm...

Originally posted by riceroost
If Nightcrawler teleports too many times in a quick succession he tires himself out.Hmmmmm...

Originally posted by riceroost
They are crap in your personal opinion because you dont like Wolverine. In my opinion they have happened far, far too many times to discount them.


If Nightcrawler teleports too many times in a quick succession he tires himself out. His endurance is higher than it used to be, but such a feat would still weaken him.

Wolverine's senses appear to be very near to precog on many occasions. Like using his senses to dodge optic blasts from behind without looking, and using them to sense and dodge living lightning. Both of which are much faster than Kurt.

The "BAMF!!" is loud as hell and it happens as soon as Kurt starts teleportation. This obviously alerts Wolverine to what Kurt is doing, therefor he will always be ready for Kurt. Once Kurt comes out of the teleport he Bamfs again and Wolverine's reflexes take care of the rest.

See, there you go just judging me by what I believe. I like Wolverine. I think he's a great character when written correctly. When he's written to be defeatable by certain means. Not God-verine.

Looking at the speed and efficiency with which Nightcrawler teleports, it would be clear to see that quick ports would not only confuse Wolverine but could also dampen his senses, especially his sense of smell (being overpowered by Kurt's sulfur and brimstone stench and Logan's senses as sensitive as they are) and sight, since the large amount of smoke would be sure to be quite the hinderance on Wolvie's vision.

And it's not like Nightcrawler can't react in time. He's seen just as fast or probably even faster opponents before. I mean, Wolvie is not the only one that trains in the Danger Room for one. Nightcrawler has spent just as much time in there, perfecting his skills.

But you know, I digress. None of this really matters since the Spidey/Nightcrawler team win anyway.

Originally posted by riceroost
She has also not fought and trained with Nightcrawler for YEARS. Wolverine has and every time NC tries to teleport at Wolverine he gets stopped real fast.

Prove it, then. Give an example of Wolvie stopping Nightcrawler from teleporting during a sparring match in acceptable circumstances. Because xmarksthespot is doing a good job disproving what you're saying...

Talk is cheap.

Originally posted by H. S. 6
Prove it, then. Give an example of Wolvie stopping Nightcrawler from teleporting during a sparring match in acceptable circumstances. Because xmarksthespot is doing a good job disproving what you're saying...

Talk is cheap.

I agree. That would be the tell of the tale and the end of this debate. I dont think Wolvie would die from a 3 mile drop, but 50 miles may do the trick or maybe even knock him out for a while. What comic was that done where NC ported 50 miles, xmarks?
Either way, if we can get the showings of Wolvie owning or beating NC in matches, ill have to give him and DD the win. If not, Wolvie gets ko'd and leaves DD to fend for himself vs Spidey and NC.

Why are we assuming that Nightcrawler fights Wolverine?

I mean, NC can just as easily take out DD while Spidey takes out Wolverine.

I'm just saying. Either way, Spidey and NC win.

True, if NC teleports DD three miles..he'll DEFINANTLY be dead. He has no superhuman stamina or nothing. Then, they just double team wolverine.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Why are we assuming that Nightcrawler fights Wolverine?

I mean, NC can just as easily take out DD while Spidey takes out Wolverine.

I'm just saying. Either way, Spidey and NC win.

We know for a fact that Daredevil can sense when Nightcrawler is about to port in somewhere. Hed always be ready and can nail NC and take him out of the fight.

Were not sure if Wolverine can do that. Thats why most people are putting NC aganst Wolvie.

Originally posted by jrodslam
What comic was that done where NC ported 50 miles, xmarks? A recent Uncanny can't remember the number off top of my head, but can find out later.

Team Agile wins.

NC can simply Tp Wolvies head off and Spidey can kill DD with a single punch.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Why are we assuming that Nightcrawler fights Wolverine?

I mean, NC can just as easily take out DD while Spidey takes out Wolverine.

I'm just saying. Either way, Spidey and NC win. Wolverine will kill NC or Spidey in one hit, doesn't matter who he fights.

Originally posted by H. S. 6
Prove it, then. Give an example of Wolvie stopping Nightcrawler from teleporting during a sparring match in acceptable circumstances. Because xmarksthespot is doing a good job disproving what you're saying...

Talk is cheap. If you had read the X-Men when those two were on the same team I wouldn't need to hunt down page numbers and find a scanner. You would just know that Wolverine repeatedly punks NC. But that's fine too. I'll go find the comics over the next few days. You wont get scans out of me, but you will get issue numbers.

Originally posted by jrodslam
We know for a fact that Daredevil can sense when Nightcrawler is about to port in somewhere. Hed always be ready and can nail NC and take him out of the fight.I have no idea how DD would manage to sense NC if he were to multiport all around him either. The sulfurous gases would cloud the air f*cking up the radar sense and the pungent smell would render his olfactory sense pretty crap.

This is a really close battle. Wolverine has been shown to be able to sense where Nightcrawler is going to end up when he teleports. He's used that advatage to exploit Nightcrawler and knock him out cold. DD and Spider-man have had some epic battles, however Spider-man would probably get the better of him. Then it would be Wolverine vs. Spider-man, and that has been shown to go either way...

Really though, NC and Spidey beat Wolvie and DD 8/10.

The big weak link for Wolverines team is DD. Even the wasp would be a better allie...

Even if Wolverine survives the 3 mile fall. I remember someone(a flyer, maybe rogue) throw wolverine from way up high with great force to the ground. Wolverine was messed up BUT he survived. It was in the Brood series.
The thing is that he could survive BUT he will be in real bad shape. Spiderman and NC could finish him off.(wolvie being a handicaped mess on the ground and all)
Thats if Wolverine doesnt sense NC. The cocoon thing could work though.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I have no idea how DD would manage to sense NC if he were to multiport all around him either. The sulfurous gases would cloud the air f*cking up the radar sense and the pungent smell would render his olfactory sense pretty crap.

Why would NC multiport all around DD without attacking? Secondly, if they are fighting outside, the gases would spread out pretty rapidly inbetween "BAMFS" thus probably not messing with his senses at all. Plus its a change in the atmosphere that DD senses, so it may not even be his sense of smell he uses, but merely his sense of touch.

Rogue threw Wolverine to the ground and the narrative says that meterors hit the earth with less force... and IIRC he wasn't even koed. He has also jumped out planes saying "the landing is no worse then a punch from the Hulk" and his skydive from the SHIELD Helicarrier didn't mess him up too badly.

Daredevil and Wolverine could win if they don't even bother with NC at the start and concentrate fully on Spider-man. One on one Spider-man would beat Wolverine because he has webbing as ranged option but with an additional traget, Daredevil can by Wolverine the time he needs to get in close... and Wolverine beats Spider-man in melee as fast as Spider-man owns him in ranged. Then it is a webbed up DD and Wolverine vs. Nightcrawler.

One punch from Spider-Man should kill DD or at least KO him.

Just warning you guys....this'll turn into a Spidey/Wolverine thread before long.

Spiderine wins.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin


Daredevil and Wolverine could win if they don't even bother with NC at the start and concentrate fully on Spider-man.

What if Nightcrawler teleports Spiderman away?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
One punch from Spider-Man should kill DD or at least KO him.

Thats true. If he ever lands a good dead-on hit.

Originally posted by jrodslam
We know for a fact that Daredevil can sense when Nightcrawler is about to port in somewhere. Hed always be ready and can nail NC and take him out of the fight.

Were not sure if Wolverine can do that. Thats why most people are putting NC aganst Wolvie.

Again, assumption. Why does NC necessarily have to teleport within arms reach of DD? He can just port around him confusing him, and hindering his hyper-sensitive senses. He honestly doesn't even have to lay a finger on him. He can just be a distraction if he wants. Spidey takes out Wolverine and then DD. Or he just socks DD real quick, and then it's both NC and Spidey vs. Wolverine.

DD and Wolvie cannot win this fight. Spidey and Nightcrawler for the win.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Again, assumption. Why does NC necessarily have to teleport within arms reach of DD? He can just port around him confusing him, and hindering his hyper-sensitive senses. He honestly doesn't even have to lay a finger on him. He can just be a distraction if he wants. Spidey takes out Wolverine and then DD. Or he just socks DD real quick, and then it's both NC and Spidey vs. Wolverine.

DD and Wolvie cannot win this fight. Spidey and Nightcrawler for the win.

Its an assumption on your part my friend. When NC fights an opponent, how many times does he just teleport around them without any sort of attack? You forget that DD has his billy club so his range is increased over 10 feet now.

NC wont get the chance to tp multiple times around DD. Like i said before, DD KNOWS when NC is going to port in BEFORE he does. As soon as NC ports in, he gets a club to his temple. Its not an assumption on my part in saying DD knows when NC is going to port in, its a FACT.

Youre saying Spidey is going to beat Wolvie like its some easy task, but thats surely not the case. Then you say Spidey is just going to sock DD? Yea, like thats gonna happen so easily. Youre the one who is making the big assumptions.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Its an assumption on your part my friend. When NC fights an opponent, how many times does he just teleport around them without any sort of attack? You forget that DD has his billy club so his range is increased over 10 feet now.

NC wont get the chance to tp multiple times around DD. Like i said before, DD KNOWS when NC is going to port in BEFORE he does. As soon as NC ports in, he gets a club to his temple. Its not an assumption on my part in saying DD knows when NC is going to port in, its a FACT.

Youre saying Spidey is going to beat Wolvie like its some easy task, but thats surely not the case. Then you say Spidey is just going to sock DD? Yea, like thats gonna happen so easily. Youre the one who is making the big assumptions.

I'm making no such assumptions.

All I'm saying is that NC can or doesn't have to actually attack DD straightforwardly. The brimstone and sulfur smell play bloody havoc on his senses, too.

What I don't get is how DD can know where he's gonna be, since NC's teleports are almost insantanous. That issue where DD predicts NC's teleport, he was able to say a whole, complete sentence in the amount of the time "atmosphere was changing" to alert him. He shouldn't have been able to know it before it came. I mean, NC must not have even teleported yet, and DD still knew what to do.

If Spidey really wanted to and was under his own control (as in NOT when he's mind controlled or enraged over something else, fighting to the best of his ability), he could just deck DD and end it quickly. DD wouldn't have a prayer if if SM really wanted him down.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I'm making no such assumptions.

All I'm saying is that NC can or doesn't have to actually attack DD straightforwardly. The brimstone and sulfur smell play bloody havoc on his senses, too.

What I don't get is how DD can know where he's gonna be, since NC's teleports are almost insantanous. That issue where DD predicts NC's teleport, he was able to say a whole, complete sentence in the amount of the time "atmosphere was changing" to alert him. He shouldn't have been able to know it before it came. I mean, NC must not have even teleported yet, and DD still knew what to do.

If Spidey really wanted to and was under his own control (as in NOT when he's mind controlled or enraged over something else, fighting to the best of his ability), he could just deck DD and end it quickly. DD wouldn't have a prayer if if SM really wanted him down.

You make the assumption that NC would "BAMF" around DD without striking. Especially considering how thats rare in a NC fight.

If DD didnt know when NC was porting in, that may just work. But he does. As son as NC "BAMF'S" in, hes hit.

DD's senses can pick up the slightest change in weather. NC BAMF'ing in is almost instant like you said, so that gives DD a chance to know its coming. DD can sense when the temp charges in degree. Thats pretty instant itself.

In Spidey and DD's first 2 battles agasint each other, Spidey was in his right mind and wanted to beat DD actually. He wasnt mind controlled or enraged at all. He was mad yes, but not to the point where he wasnt thinking straight. Spidey really wanted him down as you say and still couldnt down him as easily as youd hope.

Originally posted by jrodslam
You make the assumption that NC would "BAMF" around DD without striking. Especially considering how thats rare in a NC fight.

If DD didnt know when NC was porting in, that may just work. But he does. As son as NC "BAMF'S" in, hes hit.

DD's senses can pick up the slightest change in weather. NC BAMF'ing in is almost instant like you said, so that gives DD a chance to know its coming. DD can sense when the temp charges in degree. Thats pretty instant itself.

In Spidey and DD's first 2 battles agasint each other, Spidey was in his right mind and wanted to beat DD actually. He wasnt mind controlled or enraged at all. He was mad yes, but not to the point where he wasnt thinking straight. Spidey really wanted him down as you say and still couldnt down him as easily as youd hope.

When were these first two battles? Like, what year(s)? I'm just curious.

And yes, I know all about DD's senses and what they're capable of. But I don't believe he should be able to know when Nightcrawler is coming BEFORE he gets there. I'm all for him knowing when NC is there AS SOON AS HE ports in, but NOT BEFORE.

NC ports to DD. DD strikes. NC ports away again. DD misses. That can happen a lot. NC ports in and strikes the off-balance DD. DD tries to strike back. NC ports.

Notice a trend? If he wanted to, he could just keep porting, hitting sometimes, or just dodging the rest of the time.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
When were these first two battles? Like, what year(s)? I'm just curious.

And yes, I know all about DD's senses and what they're capable of. But I don't believe he should be able to know when Nightcrawler is coming BEFORE he gets there. I'm all for him knowing when NC is there AS SOON AS HE ports in, but NOT BEFORE.

NC ports to DD. DD strikes. NC ports away again. DD misses. That can happen a lot. NC ports in and strikes the off-balance DD. DD tries to strike back. NC ports.

Notice a trend? If he wanted to, he could just keep porting, hitting sometimes, or just dodging the rest of the time.

The first 2 battles happened eary in their careers. Actually, it wasnt the first one exactly. It was actually the 2nd and 3rd fights im reffering to. 60's.

Its NC who gives himself away. Its the dam brimstone from the dimension changing the atmosphere that aletrts DD. That opens juuust before NC actually appears, so DD has the warning.

More like NC ports out. DD throws the club. NC ports in and gets the club to the temple. DD doesnt miss much.

Your version of the fight would work if DD didnt know where and when NC appears. DD's club would already be in air before NC actually ports in lol.

Originally posted by jrodslam
The first 2 battles happened eary in their careers. Actually, it wasnt the first one exactly. It was actually the 2nd and 3rd fights im reffering to. 60's.

Its NC who gives himself away. Its the dam brimstone from the dimension changing the atmosphere that aletrts DD. That opens juuust before NC actually appears, so DD has the warning.

More like NC ports out. DD throws the club. NC ports in and gets the club to the temple. DD doesnt miss much.

Your version of the fight would work if DD didnt know where and when NC appears. DD's club would already be in air before NC actually ports in lol.

That's what I figured. Not to bash DD or anything, but I could beat up 60s Spider-Man. Current Spider-Man (pre-Iron suit) would destroy current DD, even with both well-written.

So, DD throws the club at the exact moment NC ports away, already knowing where he will appear? His radar sense is not precog.

Besides, DD throws his billy club, NC ports away again. The guy dodges bullets this way (which are must faster than a thrown billy club). He ports as the trigger is pulled, even from a pretty close distance. He'd see the club, port away again. DD's just lost his club. There's nothing stopping him from porting around constantly. Hell, NC could probably catch the damn thing. Then port it into DD's head or something.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
That's what I figured. Not to bash DD or anything, but I could beat up 60s Spider-Man. Current Spider-Man (pre-Iron suit) would destroy current DD, even with both well-written.

So, DD throws the club at the exact moment NC ports away, already knowing where he will appear? His radar sense is not precog.

Besides, DD throws his billy club, NC ports away again. The guy dodges bullets this way (which are must faster than a thrown billy club). He ports as the trigger is pulled, even from a pretty close distance. He'd see the club, port away again. DD's just lost his club. There's nothing stopping him from porting around constantly. Hell, NC could probably catch the damn thing. Then port it into DD's head or something.

You make it seem as if 60's DD hasnt changed either. Current Spidey (pre-iron suit) would destroy current DD is all speculation. Both when well written? You highly underestimate DD. Funny how you say hed destroy DD when hes never came close before. Well there was one time where he was close. One out of many.

Because NC's tp is almost instant, when he ports away, hes already in patch to port in. The atmosphere changes and DD knows instnatly where. He throws the club and when NC appears, hes hit the moment he shows up. DD's radar sense is highly close to precog. Highly. Hell, hed know NC was about to port by his heart beat alone.

DD throws his club before NC ports in. How is NC gonna port out again when hes hit immediately hit as he ports in the first time? Yes he dodges bullets that are faster than DD's thrown billy club. HOWEVER the huge difference in that is that Daredevil KNOWS when and where Nightcrawler will appear. Those people fireing bullets at NC cant say the same. You simply cant compare DD's aim to people who dont have senses to be as accurate.

From what I remember Wolverine and Nightcrawler spar all the time in the Danger Room because they are closely matched verses speed and skill.

Originally posted by ThePittman
From what I remember Wolverine and Nightcrawler spar all the time in the Danger Room because they are closely matched verses speed and skill.

What we need is someone to provide us with scans of their fights or sparring matches.

If Iron Fist is doing this to Nightcrawler, Daredevil would wipe the floor with him.

Notice how the brimstone gives Nightcrawler's position away.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8736/ironfist15enterthexmen117hf.th.jpg

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1269/ironfist15enterthexmen131xp.th.jpg

Originally posted by jrodslam
You make it seem as if 60's DD hasnt changed either. Current Spidey (pre-iron suit) would destroy current DD is all speculation. Both when well written? You highly underestimate DD. Funny how you say hed destroy DD when hes never came close before. Well there was one time where he was close. One out of many.

Because NC's tp is almost instant, when he ports away, hes already in patch to port in. The atmosphere changes and DD knows instnatly where. He throws the club and when NC appears, hes hit the moment he shows up. DD's radar sense is highly close to precog. Highly. Hell, hed know NC was about to port by his heart beat alone.

DD throws his club before NC ports in. How is NC gonna port out again when hes hit immediately hit as he ports in the first time? Yes he dodges bullets that are faster than DD's thrown billy club. HOWEVER the huge difference in that is that Daredevil KNOWS when and where Nightcrawler will appear. Those people fireing bullets at NC cant say the same. You simply cant compare DD's aim to people who dont have senses to be as accurate.

Okay, I think there may have been a failure to communicate here. I didn't mean to make it sound like current DD has nothing. Because he does. Hell, I say he beats a lot of street levelers. But current Spidey is really just too much for him.

I'm leaving work now, but I'll continue this tomorrow all day long, haha. Later, jrod.

Originally posted by jrodslam
What we need is someone to provide us with scans of their fights or sparring matches.
I dont have scanns how ever I have titles and such

"the big Dare" was a little match night crawler and wolverine first had that ended in wolverine elbowing a teleporting night crawler in the stomack and night crawler saying if he did not hold back I be dead.

there also the recent issue that is supose to be a past event back when they first started as a team. The issue is giant-sized x-men #4 were night crawler says with out his ability to teleport he could easiliy still hold his own and he makes a bet with wolverine and then wolverine moves his hand so fast that wolverine has two claws around night crawler throte before ngith crawler can react.

there also night crawler 11 were night crawler fights a possesed wolverine and states that if this was non possesed wolverine he would not be able to do any thing, but becuase the demons possesing wolverine don't know how to use his body properly that he is able defeat the possesed wolverine.

There is also night crawler issue I think it either 12 or 13 or possably 15 were night cralwer spar vs Logan and states that he only able to hold his own becuase wolverine is holding back.

There are more matches I just have to look them up

Originally posted by jrodslam
What we need is someone to provide us with scans of their fights or sparring matches.

I think someone posted a fight between the two awhile ago. It was where the entire X-Men line-up was after Wolverine and NC teleported right next to Wolverine. Wolvie sensed it and then knocked NC's ass out.

Originally posted by jrodslam
More like NC ports out. DD throws the club. NC ports in and gets the club to the temple. DD doesnt miss much.Alternatively he teleports out... to the mansion. Daredevil throws his club, misses because there's nothing to hit. Then a few minutes later he teleports back in with a sword and stabs DD.Originally posted by jrodslam
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8736/ironfist15enterthexmen117hf.th.jpg

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1269/ironfist15enterthexmen131xp.th.jpg Hmm the words in my scan contradict the words in yours.http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/anticryste/uv.jpg

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Alternatively he teleports out... to the mansion. Daredevil throws his club, misses because there's nothing to hit. Then a few minutes later he teleports back in with a sword and stabs DD.Hmm the words in my scan contradict the words in yours.http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/anticryste/uv.jpg

Either way, if NC did go to the mansion and grab a weapon, DD would still know when he was about to show up xmarks.

You scan doesnt really contradict my scans. Why? Cause NC didnt appear to be fighting a foe with Iron Fist's or Daredevil's skills. And secondly, all he appeared to have done was BAMF once and grab someone to safety. Those are 2 totally different instances it seems.

i think DD & Wolverine take this in a long battle. DD pretty much owned Spiderman at least twice i believe and Wolverine beat the Silver Samurai who possesses teleportation abilities. so i think Wolverine would kill Nightcrawler as well. and besides, Spiderman & Nightcrawler never fight to the death anyway.....

Originally posted by Logan's the man
i think DD & Wolverine take this in a long battle. DD pretty much owned Spiderman at least twice i believe and Wolverine beat the Silver Samurai who possesses teleportation abilities. so i think Wolverine would kill Nightcrawler as well. and besides, Spiderman & Nightcrawler never fight to the death anyway.....

This is a hypothetical match. Spidey and NC aren't worried about killing, they're just fightint to the best of their abilities and doing whatever it takes to win.

DD has never beaten Spider-Man without a major plot device in his favor. Either Spidey was mind-controlled, or just enraged to the point of retardation. He wasn't even listening to his spider-sense throughout the fights. DD even admits that he's no match for Spider-Man when he's in his right mind.

I still think it's pretty easy for Nightcrawler to at least keep Wolverine distracted. And by distracted, I mean dropped from several miles high. A few times.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Either way, if NC did go to the mansion and grab a weapon, DD would still know when he was about to show up xmarks.

You scan doesnt really contradict my scans. Why? Cause NC didnt appear to be fighting a foe with Iron Fist's or Daredevil's skills. And secondly, all he appeared to have done was BAMF once and grab someone to safety. Those are 2 totally different instances it seems.

But Nightcrawler had 0.5 seconds to teleport out, teleport in, grab the girl, teleport away again, and teleport in back at a safe distance, and he still had time to spare. You're telling me Wolverine can stop Nightcrawler when he's teleporting this fast? (Remember that Nightcrawler is at his full potential.)

Originally posted by Metalmanx
This is a hypothetical match. Spidey and NC aren't worried about killing, they're just fightint to the best of their abilities and doing whatever it takes to win.

DD has never beaten Spider-Man without a major plot device in his favor. Either Spidey was mind-controlled, or just enraged to the point of retardation. He wasn't even listening to his spider-sense throughout the fights. DD even admits that he's no match for Spider-Man when he's in his right mind. ...and below is the quote.

I don't see much hope for Matt and Logan here. Pete and Kurt have too much going for them, not the least of which is Peter's recent enhancements. I'd have given pre-Other Spidey 7/10 odds over Wolverine. Now, I give him 8-9/10. Even if it somehow became Wolverine and Daredevil vs Spider-Man, I'd still give it to Spidey. DD isn't fast enough to evade SM and one punch is all it will take to lay Horn-Head out. Spidey can easily multi-task that blow with his new Spider-Sense with plenty of attack and evasion game to deal with Wolverine.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
...and below is the quote.

I don't see much hope for Matt and Logan here. Pete and Kurt have too much going for them, not the least of which is Peter's recent enhancements. I'd have given pre-Other Spidey 7/10 odds over Wolverine. Now, I give him 8-9/10. Even if it somehow became Wolverine and Daredevil vs Spider-Man, I'd still give it to Spidey. DD isn't fast enough to evade SM and one punch is all it will take to lay Horn-Head out. Spidey can easily multi-task that blow with his new Spider-Sense with plenty of attack and evasion game to deal with Wolverine.

Exactly. I really couldn't have put that better if I wanted to. Thanks for the scan, I don't have it with me on my work computer.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I still think it's pretty easy for Nightcrawler to at least keep Wolverine distracted. And by distracted, I mean dropped from several miles high. A few times.
To bad Night crawler would never be able to do that. Not only has Wolverine caught NC is mid teleport before, but NC has admitted him self that he can't take Logan.

.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
...and below is the quote.

I don't see much hope for Matt and Logan here. Pete and Kurt have too much going for them, not the least of which is Peter's recent enhancements. I'd have given pre-Other Spidey 7/10 odds over Wolverine. Now, I give him 8-9/10. Even if it somehow became Wolverine and Daredevil vs Spider-Man, I'd still give it to Spidey. DD isn't fast enough to evade SM and one punch is all it will take to lay Horn-Head out. Spidey can easily multi-task that blow with his new Spider-Sense with plenty of attack and evasion game to deal with Wolverine.

Why is it that that scan is always shown? It doesnt prove a point at all. Please stop posting half battles. Post the scan after that where Daredevil still wasnt knocked out and proceded to dodge the rest of Spidermans punches with relative ease. If you dont have the rest of that scirmish, youre misled and your misleading others.

Originally posted by capt it up
To bad Night crawler would never be able to do that. Not only has Wolverine caught NC is mid teleport before, but NC has admitted him self that he can't take Logan.

.

Youre right capt. I dont know how many times it has to be said. Nightcrawlers BAMF'ing gives him away. Logan has got the best of him and so had Iron Fist. Daredevil knows when Nightcrawler is about to port in. These are all against NC's favor. I dont know what else is there to prove really.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Youre right capt. I dont know how many times it has to be said. Nightcrawlers BAMF'ing gives him away. Logan has got the best of him and so had Iron Fist. Daredevil knows when Nightcrawler is about to port in. These are all against NC's favor. I dont know what else is there to prove really. He can't know when he's about to port in. That would be precognition. He could only know as he's in the process of porting in. A process that takes less than a tenth of a second.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
He can't know when he's about to port in. That would be precognition. He could only know as he's in the process of porting in. A process that takes less than a tenth of a second.

Exactly.

Daredevil might be able to know when is bought to port but he will not be able to do shit about it.If he ports behind him can grab him and port away before DD can would be able to throw a punch.The only person that has precog and the reflex's to stop NC is on his team.

Originally posted by Blade Cutter
Daredevil might be able to know when is bought to port but he will not be able to do shit about it.If he ports behind him can grab him and port away before DD can would be able to throw a punch.The only person that has precog and the reflex's to stop NC is on his team.
Wolverine has hit NC in mid teleport on more then one occassion. NC has also admitted he not match for wolverine on more then one occassion.

Originally posted by capt it up
Wolverine has hit NC in mid teleport on more then one occassion. NC has also admitted he not match for wolverine on more then one occassion.

Mid-teleport? You mean while he was in the OTHER DIMENSION that he traverses through in order to teleport? Now this I've gotta see.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
He can't know when he's about to port in. That would be precognition. He could only know as he's in the process of porting in. A process that takes less than a tenth of a second.

Not so. Wouldnt the brimstone be the process of Nightcrawler porting in before he himself is actually present? Iron Fist saw the brimstone just before NC actually appeared. Daredevil on the other hand knew Nightcrawler was about to port in BEFORE the brimstone even appeared.

Originally posted by Blade Cutter
Daredevil might be able to know when is bought to port but he will not be able to do shit about it.If he ports behind him can grab him and port away before DD can would be able to throw a punch.The only person that has precog and the reflex's to stop NC is on his team.

DD wont be able to do anything about it? Why not? As soon as hes in, hes hit. Thats been shown already. DD definately has the reflexes to do so. Especially when hes already ready for him to appear. If hes gonna appear behind DD, Daredevil would know the atmospheric change is behind him. Thus already be turned around or have his position moved.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Not so. Wouldnt the brimstone be the process of Nightcrawler porting in before he himself is actually present? Iron Fist saw the brimstone just before NC actually appeared. Daredevil on the other hand knew Nightcrawler was about to port in BEFORE the brimstone even appeared. Both of which make no sense. The brimstone accompanies him as he teleports back in, it's his power to teleport not the brimstone's the brimstone can't come without him. It takes a tenth of a second or less. If one were sensing "atmospheric disturbances" then they would be present both at the point of entry and the point of exit so one would have to distinguish between the two as well.

He wouldn't be ready for him to appear if Nightcrawler disappears somewhere else for a period first.

"If hes gonna appear behind DD, Daredevil would know the atmospheric change is behind him. Thus already be turned around or have his position moved."

All in the space of .1-.2 seconds and DD's going to manage to hit him too before he disappears again. I can't see it happening. Seems even less plausible if one takes into account he can multiport all around.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Both of which make no sense. The brimstone accompanies him as he teleports back in, it's his power to teleport not the brimstone's the brimstone can't come without him. It takes a tenth of a second or less. If one were sensing "atmospheric disturbances" then they would be present both at the point of entry and the point of exit so one would have to distinguish between the two as well.

He wouldn't be ready for him to appear if Nightcrawler disappears somewhere else for a period first.

"If hes gonna appear behind DD, Daredevil would know the atmospheric change is behind him. Thus already be turned around or have his position moved."

All in the space of .1-.2 seconds and DD's going to manage to hit him too before he disappears again. I can't see it happening. Seems even less plausible if one takes into account he can multiport all around.

Which part makes no sence? True the brimstone accompanies him as he teleports back in, however it does appear slightly before him. It almost seems instant. The atmospheric disturbance and the brimstone werent present at the same time. Daredevils senses are off the chars, so im sure it would be highly easy for him to distinguish the difference.

If Nightcrawler dissapears somewhere else for a period first, Dearedevil would know hes not gonna appear right away because of no change in the atmosphere. Same like knowing he would leave due to the change.

I do believe in 1-2 seconds DD would be able to hit him. Iron Fist noticed after 2 hits from NC then caught him as he ported in for the 3rd hit. This is one who doesnt have the ability to sence changes in the atmosphere.

I don't see how the brimstone can appear before him if he is the one teleporting.

Not 1-2 seconds 0.1-0.2 seconds.

I believe the brimstone is from the dimension hes going to or coming from. If hes porting in, youd see the brimstone first due to him coming out of the dimension. Yes hes the one porting, but isnt he somewhere when hes inbetween ports? Which the brimstone is evidence of that.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Why is it that that scan is always shown? It doesnt prove a point at all. Please stop posting half battles. Post the scan after that where Daredevil still wasnt knocked out and proceded to dodge the rest of Spidermans punches with relative ease. If you dont have the rest of that scirmish, youre misled and your misleading others. Misled? Daredevil admits that he knew Spidey's blow was coming and was not fast enough to do anything about it. Please explain how that is misleading. Would you debate that Daredevil is Spider-Man's physical better?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Why is it that that scan is always shown? It doesnt prove a point at all. Please stop posting half battles. Post the scan after that where Daredevil still wasnt knocked out and proceded to dodge the rest of Spidermans punches with relative ease. If you dont have the rest of that scirmish, youre misled and your misleading others.

Did you read that fight?, while he was dodging he said that because Spider-man's mind was clouded by hypnosis he wasn't operating at peak effeiency and under normal circumstances he would never be able to out fight him, so either DD is just plain lieing or he's stating the obviouse, I'm ok with stating the obviouse.

And we don't even know if DD was dodging with ease he never said that it could have been taking all he had to dodge.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
Misled? Daredevil admits that he knew Spidey's blow was coming and was not fast enough to do anything about it. Please explain how that is misleading. Would you debate that Daredevil is Spider-Man's physical better?

Its misleading because the one hit out of dozens Spidey has thrown, DD failed to completely dodge in time(although he still was able to roll with it), people use it as some sort of evidence that hes not fast enough to dodge Spidey. Daredevil wasnt fast enought to completely dodge the hit. He was fast enough to roll with it and not get knocked out. In the very next page, Spidey threw another 3-4 punches and completely missed all. If im not mistaken, that was the one time Daredevil ever mentioned not being able to move out of the way to dodge a Spiderman punch. 1 time out of about 6 or 7 fights. I dont know about you, but im sticking to whats more consistant and Daredevil dodging Spiderman is much more consistant than 1 hit.

Would i debate that Daredevil is physically better? Ofcourse not. However, in their battles against each other, although hes physically outclassed, its not apparent in the fights. Spiderman is physically faster, but due to DD's senses he can hardly land punches. Spidey is physically stronger, but due to DD's fighting ability and senses, he cant even land strong enough hits(if he lands one) to be effective right away. Do you disagree with that?

Originally posted by Sparkz
Did you read that fight?, while he was dodging he said that because Spider-man's mind was clouded by hypnosis he wasn't operating at peak effeiency and under normal circumstances he would never be able to out fight him, so either DD is just plain lieing or he's stating the obviouse, I'm ok with stating the obviouse.

And we don't even know if DD was dodging with ease he never said that it could have been taking all he had to dodge.

I read the fight. Spiderman landing the first hit in that fight is constantly used in debates on this forum, but when the next page shows DD doding all other punches completely, someone comes along and mentions Spidey not being in his right mind(like you just did) and discredits what DD did after the initial hit. Yet uses the first hit as validation in saying Spideys much to fast for DD when 95% of their fights say otherwise. DD said that under normal circumstances that hed never be able to outfight him, but he could out think him. You seemed not mentiont that part. Was he lying when he was basically sayig that he out thinks Spidey under normal conditions or just stating the obvious?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Which part makes no sence? True the brimstone accompanies him as he teleports back in, however it does appear slightly before him. It almost seems instant. The atmospheric disturbance and the brimstone werent present at the same time. Daredevils senses are off the chars, so im sure it would be highly easy for him to distinguish the difference.

If Nightcrawler dissapears somewhere else for a period first, Dearedevil would know hes not gonna appear right away because of no change in the atmosphere. Same like knowing he would leave due to the change.

I do believe in 1-2 seconds DD would be able to hit him. Iron Fist noticed after 2 hits from NC then caught him as he ported in for the 3rd hit. This is one who doesnt have the ability to sence changes in the atmosphere.

First of all, it's 0.1-0.2 seconds. We, as humans, can barely fathom how fast that is. Daredevil may have good reflexes, but not that good. He would definitely not land a hit.

Here are the facts.



Spiderman can lift 25 tons , ergo he can quite easily ram his fist through a humans body.
Spiderman has reflexes forty times a normal humans .
Spiderman has a precognitive power which kicks in when ever he is in any form of danger


These three things alone mean Daredevil is screwed. Sure he may be a great fighter. But how can someone react to reflexes 39 times better then his own ? Also even IF Murdock can block a punch (Which I can't see happening unless some Major PIS is involved) the appendage would end up useless , if not rendered permanently inert.

Daredevil has zero chance of surviving this encounter with Spidey.

I'm going to try to post some scans.


Here's one that shows Spidey lands a hit on him. This is after they've only been battling, maybe thirty seconds. (By the way, this was in the Daredevil respect thread.)

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2508/21lb.jpg (Another scan of this fight. DD is able to dodge some of his attacks, but Spidey is able to land some, as well.)

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4692/36mq1.jpg

And Spidey is pulling his punches.


EDIT: And let's not forget Spidey's recent upgrades. His advanced Spider-Sense, advanced speed, and new suit.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I read the fight. Spiderman landing the first hit in that fight is constantly used in debates on this forum, but when the next page shows DD doding all other punches completely, someone comes along and mentions Spidey not being in his right mind(like you just did) and discredits what DD did after the initial hit. Yet uses the first hit as validation in saying Spideys much to fast for DD when 95% of their fights say otherwise. DD said that under normal circumstances that hed never be able to outfight him, but he could out think him. You seemed not mentiont that part. Was he lying when he was basically sayig that he out thinks Spidey under normal conditions or just stating the obvious?
Like you said, DD could out think Spider-Man.

I'm not so sure. Spider-Man has more experience than DD ever will have and is a lot smarter too.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Like you said, DD could out think Spider-Man.

I'm not so sure. Spider-Man has more experience than DD ever will have and is a lot smarter too.

Originally posted by grey fox
Here are the facts.



Spiderman can lift 25 tons , ergo he can quite easily ram his fist through a humans body.
Spiderman has reflexes forty times a normal humans .
Spiderman has a precognitive power which kicks in when ever he is in any form of danger


These three things alone mean Daredevil is screwed. Sure he may be a great fighter. But how can someone react to reflexes 39 times better then his own ? Also even IF Murdock can block a punch (Which I can't see happening unless some Major PIS is involved) the appendage would end up useless , if not rendered permanently inert.

Daredevil has zero chance of surviving this encounter with Spidey.
Spidey lifts 15 Tons, still enough to punch through someone but still.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Like you said, DD could out think Spider-Man.

I'm not so sure. Spider-Man has more experience than DD ever will have and is a lot smarter too.

I wouldn't say he has more experience they have both been hero's for roughly the same amount of time, but Spidey is definatly smarter.

Originally posted by Sparkz
I wouldn't say he has more experience they have both been hero's for roughly the same amount of time, but Spidey is definatly smarter.
Spider-Man has appeared (and fought) in much much more comics than DD. That has to count for something.

Originally posted by Sparkz
Spidey lifts 15 Tons, still enough to punch through someone but still.

Meh , as you said someone is still going to get a hole punched out of them

Originally posted by Sparkz
Spidey lifts 15 Tons, still enough to punch through someone but still.

Spidey has lifted much, much more than 15 tons on numerous occasions.

Originally posted by H. S. 6
Spidey has lifted much, much more than 15 tons on numerous occasions.
I always think that Spidey has class 25 strength

Would you agree ?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I still think it's pretty easy for Nightcrawler to at least keep Wolverine distracted. And by distracted, I mean dropped from several miles high. A few times. Any senario that involves Nightcrawler grabbing and teleporting Wolverine ends with Nightcrawler being stabbed to death.

Originally posted by grey fox
I always think that Spidey has class 25 strength

Would you agree ?

Well, I guess your right there.

Originally posted by Sparkz
Spidey lifts 15 Tons, still enough to punch through someone but still.

As of late, it's around 15-20 tons of strength. Though that increases with adrenaline rushes.

Originally posted by H. S. 6
I'm going to try to post some scans.


Here's one that shows Spidey lands a hit on him. This is after they've only been battling, maybe thirty seconds. (By the way, this was in the Daredevil respect thread.)

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2508/21lb.jpg (Another scan of this fight. DD is able to dodge some of his attacks, but Spidey is able to land some, as well.)

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4692/36mq1.jpg

And Spidey is pulling his punches.


EDIT: And let's not forget Spidey's recent upgrades. His advanced Spider-Sense, advanced speed, and new suit.

What are those scans showing? If you notice in the first scan, Spidey landed the hit on DD, but Daredevil rolled with the hit, so Spidey's hit wasnt effective.

In the fight you posted scans of, Spidey landed 1 hit that DD rolled with and the second hit he landed was beacuse Daredevil LET hit get that one.

Spidey have have been pulling his punches in the strength department, but not in the speed department.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Like you said, DD could out think Spider-Man.

I'm not so sure. Spider-Man has more experience than DD ever will have and is a lot smarter too.

DD said he believes he CAN out thik him.

Spiderman has more experience than Daredevil will ever have? In what, fighting? Use of their powers? Not so.

Daredevil is 5+ years older than Spidey and has had his powers since he was 13-15. His fighting skills > Spidermans as well. Spiderman is smarter than him naturally like science, but thats about it.

Originally posted by jrodslam
What are those scans showing? If you notice in the first scan, Spidey landed the hit on DD, but Daredevil rolled with the hit, so Spidey's hit wasnt effective.

In the fight you posted scans of, Spidey landed 1 hit that DD rolled with and the second hit he landed was beacuse Daredevil LET hit get that one.

Spidey have have been pulling his punches in the strength department, but not in the speed department.

Now think about what you said there. "Spidey have have been pulling his punches in the strength department, but not in the speed department."

In order for him to pull his punches (decrease the strength of his attack), he would have to pull his speed as well (decrease his speed). Think about it, it's a very simple concet. The faster you punch something, the harder you hit it.

Originally posted by jrodslam
DD said he believes he CAN out thik him.

Spiderman has more experience than Daredevil will ever have? In what, fighting? Use of their powers? Not so.

Daredevil is 5+ years older than Spidey and has had his powers since he was 13-15. His fighting skills > Spidermans as well. Spiderman is smarter than him naturally like science, but thats about it.

DD may be a smarter martial artist, but Spidey is the smarter FIGHTER. Definitely much more resourceful during his fights as well.

Age-wise, they received their powers at about the same time in their lives. Spidey, however, has had so many more fights over the years than DD has.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Now think about what you said there. "Spidey have have been pulling his punches in the strength department, but not in the speed department."

In order for him to pull his punches (decrease the strength of his attack), he would have to pull his speed as well (decrease his speed). Think about it, it's a very simple concet. The faster you punch something, the harder you hit it.

Not true at all. You dont have to use all your speed in order to land your most powerful hit. It may be a little more apparent if it were just one hit, but in a series of attacks, thats not the case usually.

Try punching something with all your speed for 10 seconds. Then try punching something withh all your strength for 10 seconds. Youll lack the speed of the first set, but gain the strength.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Not true at all. You dont have to use all your speed in order to land your most powerful hit. It may be a little more apparent if it were just one hit, but in a series of attacks, thats not the case usually.

Try punching something with all your speed for 10 seconds. Then try punching something withh all your strength for 10 seconds. Youll lack the speed of the first set, but gain the strength.

Dude. You missed what I meant. Read it again.

In one punch, the faster you punch something, the harder you hit it. Would you dare disagree with this simple concept?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
DD may be a smarter martial artist, but Spidey is the smarter FIGHTER. Definitely much more resourceful during his fights as well.

Age-wise, they received their powers at about the same time in their lives. Spidey, however, has had so many more fights over the years than DD has.

Again i disagree. Because Daredevil is just peak human, he has to find ways to be more resourceful much more than Spidey does. He relies on technique and smarts.

Age-wise, i think Spidey was in high-school when he got his powers. Is that correct? Matt wasnt in hight-school when he got his. Obviousy comic wise Spidey has been in more fights. However Matt uses his skills much more on a everyday basis.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Again i disagree. Because Daredevil is just peak human, he has to find ways to be more resourceful much more than Spidey does. He relies on technique and smarts.

Age-wise, i think Spidey was in high-school when he got his powers. Is that correct? Matt wasnt in hight-school when he got his. Obviousy comic wise Spidey has been in more fights. However Matt uses his skills much more on a everyday basis.

Peter has been Spider-man since he was 15.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Dude. You missed what I meant. Read it again.

In one punch, the faster you punch something, the harder you hit it. Would you dare disagree with this simple concept?

I read what you wrote.

Yes i disagree. In one punch, the harder you hit something, isnt the fastest you throw it.

I can stand and cock my fist all the way back(like im throwing a pitch) to land my strongest hit.

I can stand and throw a punch with ALL my speed and have it not be as strong as the cocked punch.

Originally posted by Sparkz
Peter has been Spider-man since he was 15.

Yea, thats high-school.

Matt wasnt in hs when he got his powers. He started his fighting training even before that.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I read what you wrote.

Yes i disagree. In one punch, the harder you hit something, isnt the fastest you throw it.

I can stand and cock my fist all the way back(like im throwing a pitch) to land my strongest hit.

I can stand and throw a punch with ALL my speed and have it not be as strong as the cocked punch.

I don't get that, can you simplify that for us dumber people...namely me.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Again i disagree. Because Daredevil is just peak human, he has to find ways to be more resourceful much more than Spidey does. He relies on technique and smarts.

Age-wise, i think Spidey was in high-school when he got his powers. Is that correct? Matt wasnt in hight-school when he got his. Obviousy comic wise Spidey has been in more fights. However Matt uses his skills much more on a everyday basis.

And I disagree with this. DD fights mostly peak-human opponents. Mostly.

However, even though Spidey is super-powered, 99% of his opponents are also super-powered. That's how Spidey wins, relying on his techniques, honed skills/abilities, and his vast intelligence. So really, I'd say that's more impressive.

Spidey got his powers at 15. Isn't that the same time-period that Matt got his powers?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And I disagree with this. DD fights mostly peak-human opponents. Mostly.

However, even though Spidey is super-powered, 99% of his opponents are also super-powered. That's how Spidey wins, relying on his techniques, honed skills/abilities, and his vast intelligence. So really, I'd say that's more impressive.

Spidey got his powers at 15. Isn't that the same time-period that Matt got his powers?

DD got them a little younger, but didn't start fighting as DD untill like 5 or 10 years later.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I read what you wrote.

Yes i disagree. In one punch, the harder you hit something, isnt the fastest you throw it.

I can stand and cock my fist all the way back(like im throwing a pitch) to land my strongest hit.

I can stand and throw a punch with ALL my speed and have it not be as strong as the cocked punch.

You are really trying to twist what I'm saying, aren't you?

Of course if you're just standing there all awkward-like your punch is not gonna be powerful.

Stand and cock your fist all the way back (like you're throwing a pitch) and then punch as fast as you can. That speed = harder punch.

If you do the same thing and punch at half the speed, the damage will be cut in half. Easily.

Come on, man. Work with me here.

Originally posted by Sparkz
DD got them a little younger, but didn't start fighting as DD untill like 5 or 10 years later.

That's pretty much what I meant. Didn't mean to cause confusion earlier.

Originally posted by Sparkz
I don't get that, can you simplify that for us dumber people...namely me.

If you were to cock you arm back (like you were throwing a pitch) and punch with all your strength, it would be much harder than throwing a punch with all your speed.

Prime examples would be in boxing. You have your jab which is your fastest attack. Then you have your slower more powerful ones such as uppercuts, hooks and haymakers.

Originally posted by jrodslam
If you were to cock you arm back (like you were throwing a pitch) and punch with all your strength, it would be much harder than throwing a punch with all your speed.

Prime examples would be in boxing. You have your jab which is your fastest attack. Then you have your slower more powerful ones such as uppercuts, hooks and haymakers.

Ah I see, but those punches are still fast.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And I disagree with this. DD fights mostly peak-human opponents. Mostly.

However, even though Spidey is super-powered, 99% of his opponents are also super-powered. That's how Spidey wins, relying on his techniques, honed skills/abilities, and his vast intelligence. So really, I'd say that's more impressive.

Spidey got his powers at 15. Isn't that the same time-period that Matt got his powers?

True DD fights peak humans most of the time. However, he does crossover to the superhuman side and finds ways to hold his own. Some even beat. Keep in mind that DD is only peak human. He cant afford to get hit or he bites the dust. Spidey can get into a slugfest with some of his foes. You say Spidey relies on his techniques, honed skills/abilities, and his vast intelligence. So does DD. Difference is DD cant take too many hits so he has to be extra careful. Id say that more impressive imo.

Those are the same ages roughly, but you have to remember that Matt is about 5-8 years older than Peter.

Originally posted by jrodslam
If you were to cock you arm back (like you were throwing a pitch) and punch with all your strength, it would be much harder than throwing a punch with all your speed.

Prime examples would be in boxing. You have your jab which is your fastest attack. Then you have your slower more powerful ones such as uppercuts, hooks and haymakers. Newton's Second Law of Motion: Force = mass x acceleration.

Originally posted by jrodslam
If you were to cock you arm back (like you were throwing a pitch) and punch with all your strength, it would be much harder than throwing a punch with all your speed.

Prime examples would be in boxing. You have your jab which is your fastest attack. Then you have your slower more powerful ones such as uppercuts, hooks and haymakers.

Again, you're taking my example out of context.

The jab is the fastest-to-hit punch. But I'm not talking about the kind of punch. I'm saying if you were trying to hit something as hard as you could, you punch it as FAST as you can.

I'm applying this to the haymaker for example. If you pull back for a haymaker and then just casually, very slowly punch someone, they may not even feel it. Seriously, picture that in your mind.

Now picture the same haymaker, but throwing it as fast as you can. IT HITS HARDER. Why is this so hard to understand?

Oh, and by the way. The haymakers and hooks are probably even faster (fist-speed-wise) than the jab. The jab just looks faster because it connects quicker than the other punches.

The faster your fist speed, the harder the punch.

Originally posted by Sparkz
Ah I see, but those punches are still fast.

True true. However throwing a punch with all your speed doesnt grant you the same strength as throwing one with all your might. Youll lack the strength for speed and lack the speed for strength.

Plus throwing a bunch of punches with all your might tires you more. Thus it slows you down even moreso.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Newton's Second Law of Motion: Force = mass x acceleration.

Thanks, xmarks. I don't know my physics equations well enough to accurately apply them here. That's why I depend on you for those, haha.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Newton's Second Law of Motion: Force = mass x acceleration.

Too bad comic physics really dont apply.

I dont think that applies in punches either. Planes, trains and automobiles yea.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Too bad comic physics really dont apply.

I dont think that applies in punches either. Planes, trains and automobiles yea.

Err...why don't physics applied to punches now?

Originally posted by jrodslam
What are those scans showing? If you notice in the first scan, Spidey landed the hit on DD, but Daredevil rolled with the hit, so Spidey's hit wasnt effective.

In the fight you posted scans of, Spidey landed 1 hit that DD rolled with and the second hit he landed was beacuse Daredevil LET hit get that one.

Spider-Man was dominating the fight. He underestimated DD, true, but let's be realistic : DD couldn't keep up, he admitted it more than once, and at the end of the fight, he was too tired to even dodge his attack (almost his own words).

Spider-Man could have EASILY killed DD.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Too bad comic physics really dont apply.

I dont think that applies in punches either. Planes, trains and automobiles yea. The past page or so has been trying to compare what boxers do to what would happen in comics. Simple physics of what boxers do? Force = mass x acceleration.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Again, you're taking my example out of context.

The jab is the fastest-to-hit punch. But I'm not talking about the kind of punch. I'm saying if you were trying to hit something as hard as you could, you punch it as FAST as you can.

I'm applying this to the haymaker for example. If you pull back for a haymaker and then just casually, very slowly punch someone, they may not even feel it. Seriously, picture that in your mind.

Now picture the same haymaker, but throwing it as fast as you can. IT HITS HARDER. Why is this so hard to understand?

Oh, and by the way. The haymakers and hooks are probably even faster (fist-speed-wise) than the jab. The jab just looks faster because it connects quicker than the other punches.

The faster your fist speed, the harder the punch.

I can throw my fastest punch and break your nose and losen some teeth.

I can throw my hardest punch (which isnt as fast as my fastest punch) and break your nose, knock a couple of teeth back and dislocate your jaw.

Maybe i can do that due to baxing and martial arts training though.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The past page or so has been trying to compare what boxers do to what would happen in comics. Simple physics of what boxers do? Force = mass x acceleration.

I wouldnt say that xmarks. Ever hear of George Foreman? Hes one of the slower heavyweights ever, but is easily one of the strongest.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I wouldnt say that xmarks. Ever hear of George Foreman? Hes one of the slower heavyweights ever, but is easily one of the strongest. The same action performed slower generates less force, and conversely the same action performed faster generates more force.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Spider-Man was dominating the fight. He underestimated DD, true, but let's be realistic : DD couldn't keep up, he admitted it more than once, and at the end of the fight, he was too tired to even dodge his attack (almost his own words).

Spider-Man could have EASILY killed DD.

What fight was this? I believe we're on their 3rd fight who?-kid. Spidey underestimated DD in the second fight. I think thats the one youre referring to. Secondly, Spidey was not dominating. Too tired to dodge the attack completely yes. What did he do? He ALLOWED Spidey to get they hit and yet he still was able to roll with the punch.

Spidey easily killing DD if false.

Originally posted by jrodslam
What fight was this? I believe we're on their 3rd fight who?-kid. Spidey underestimated DD in the second fight. I think thats the one youre referring to. Secondly, Spidey was not dominating. Too tired to dodge the attack completely yes. What did he do? He ALLOWED Spidey to get they hit and yet he still was able to roll with the punch.

Spidey easily killing DD if false.
I was talking about the old one, when they were fighting on the rooftops, when Spider-Man shouted GERONIMO when he knocked down DD.

If you were talking about another fight, my apologies.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The same action performed slower generates less force, and conversely the same action performed faster generates more force.

Depends on the person. Faster may cause less efficiancy and lack of power.

Originally posted by who?-kid
I was talking about the old one, when they were fighting on the rooftops, when Spider-Man shouted GERONIMO when he knocked down DD.

If you were talking about another fight, my apologies.

Spiderman was not dominating that fight at all. Spiderman knocked down DD on the "GERONIMO!" hit cause DD allowed him to do so. Immediately after that hit, Daredevil was ready to go at it again.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I can throw my fastest punch and break your nose and losen some teeth.

I can throw my hardest punch (which isnt as fast as my fastest punch) and break your nose, knock a couple of teeth back and dislocate your jaw.

Maybe i can do that due to baxing and martial arts training though.

ARG! This isn't that hard to understand!

Your hardest punch IS your fastest punch!

Originally posted by Metalmanx
ARG! This isn't that hard to understand!

Your hardest punch IS your fastest punch!
Depending on momentum as a jab is faster then a hook but less powerful.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Spiderman was not dominating that fight at all. Spiderman knocked down DD on the "GERONIMO!" hit cause DD allowed him to do so. Immediately after that hit, Daredevil was ready to go at it again. He did not allow him to hit DD has not planing that.DD was just to tired to dodge the punch all the way.QUOTE(I was to tired to dodge it all the way but this may be just what I need to catch my breath for a second)DD tried to dodge it then after getting hit used it to catch his breath.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
ARG! This isn't that hard to understand!

Your hardest punch IS your fastest punch!

Originally posted by jrodslam
I can throw my fastest punch and break your nose and losen some teeth.

I can throw my hardest punch (which isnt as fast as my fastest punch) and break your nose, knock a couple of teeth back and dislocate your jaw.

Maybe i can do that due to boxing and martial arts training though.

That doesnt apply for everyone.

DD a pussy i mean he cant even see i know he gots that hearing shit down but spider-man can see and got spider-sense shit and stronger,faster, better costume