The X-Men vs The New Avengers

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Malo
The X-men:

Cyclops
Colosus
Storm
Beast
Wolverine
Kitty

vs

The New Avengers:

Cap.America
Iron Man
Spider-Woman
Luke Cage
Spider-Man
Ronin

No prep. Who wins?...Fight takes place in a city.

diabloman
Originally posted by Malo
The X-men:

Cyclops
Colosus
Storm
Beast
Wolverine
Kitty

vs

The New Avengers:

Cap.America
Iron Man
Spider-Woman
Luke Cage
Spider-Man
Ronin

No prep. Who wins?...Fight takes place in a city. which city ?

riceroost
Originally posted by Malo
The X-men:

Cyclops
Colosus
Storm
Beast
Wolverine
Kitty

vs

The New Avengers:

Cap.America
Iron Man
Spider-Woman
Luke Cage
Spider-Man
Ronin

No prep. Who wins?...Fight takes place in a city.
X-Men would take this.

X-Men have the better melee fighter. (Wolverine)
X-Men have a stronger/tougher big man. (Colossus)
X-Men have a heavy hitter to combat Iron Man. (Storm)
X-Men have a character who literally can't be hurt, yet can take out Iron Man just by walking through him. (Kitty)
X-Men have the advantage in ranged attack. (Cyclops)

Adam Warlock
Are you talking about the Iron Man that held his own against Michael? Or how bout Iron Man with his Extremis Suit controlling an army of Iron Man when they battled Super Adaptoid?

Iron Man with either armors could take out most if not all of that X-men team himself.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Are you talking about the Iron Man that held his own against Michael? Or how bout Iron Man with his Extremis Suit controlling an army of Iron Man when they battled Super Adaptoid?

Iron Man with either armors could take out most if not all of that X-men team himself.

Agreed ! smile

riceroost
Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Are you talking about the Iron Man that held his own against Michael? Or how bout Iron Man with his Extremis Suit controlling an army of Iron Man when they battled Super Adaptoid?

Iron Man with either armors could take out most if not all of that X-men team himself. Unless Colossus chucks Kitty at Tony, resulting in a short out while 300 feet in the air.

Sparkz
Originally posted by riceroost
Unless Colossus chucks Kitty at Tony, resulting in a short out while 300 feet in the air.

The iron man just simply moves out the way, kitty can't fly so then she falls from 300 feet into the air...

stormfront13
storm can hold her own against iron-man and has in fact shut down his suit before. while i think that's bullshit it has still happened. also, she can hold him off long enough to get some back up. or possibly both cyke and storm can team up on him at the same time. also, iron-man has stated that he's no match for storm when it comes to combat in the sky.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Sparkz
The iron man just simply moves out the way, kitty can't fly so then she falls from 300 feet into the air... confused Kitty can sort of fly...

Wolverine2006
x-men win, the only thing the New Avengers have better is their jet thing
the main reason I said that is so I could put up this smily

tomcat

stormfront13
actually x-men more than likely definitley win this. okay, storm can take everyone except iron-man in the first minute...hell...she can probably do major damage to iron-man as well. take a look at these pics...and these are from one of her first appearances, just imagine how much her powers have grown since then.

http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm98p73xt.jpg

http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm98p84xx.jpg

also, if iron-man made it flash floods would be a huge distraction leaving him open to attack from the others

http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm95pg094xk.jpg

http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uncannyxmen116080of.jpg

as would this be

http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uncannyxmen118162fg.jpg

even vindicator who has taken down galactus has admitted that he's not a match for storm

http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uncannyxmen120158zu.jpg

Grimm22
Originally posted by riceroost
X-Men would take this.

X-Men have the better melee fighter. (Wolverine)
X-Men have a stronger/tougher big man. (Colossus)
X-Men have a heavy hitter to combat Iron Man. (Storm)
X-Men have a character who literally can't be hurt, yet can take out Iron Man just by walking through him. (Kitty)
X-Men have the advantage in ranged attack. (Cyclops)

Iron Man >> Storm no expression

Cap > Wolverine

Ronin >> Wolverine

Broly92
Storm>or<Iron Man
Wolverine>Cap
Wolverine>>>Ronin

Grimm22
Originally posted by Broly92
Storm>or<Iron Man
Wolverine>Cap
Wolverine>>>Ronin

Nope no

Ronin is on Taskmaster level no expression

She has similar powers to his. wink

stormfront13
Originally posted by Grimm22
Iron Man >> Storm no expression



nope...i'm afraid your wrong my friend...they're at least equal

Grimm22
Originally posted by stormfront13
nope...i'm afraid your wrong my friend...they're at least equal

Storm is powerful, but Iron Man's armor is way to advanced for Storm to handle wink

Broly92
No it isn't

Adam Warlock
Yep Storm could take Iron Man all right:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/scan00106nw.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/scan00197ep.jpg

I bet Storm could take out Multiple Iron Man's as well:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/newavengersannual0125267kb.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/sifu1/newavengersannual01272hp.jpg

xmarksthespot
Stalemate. I don't think they can kill Shadowcat.

stormfront13
Originally posted by Grimm22
Storm is powerful, but Iron Man's armor is way to advanced for Storm to handle wink

apparentlly it's not as storm has proved a match for iron-man...and he's admitted that she's a match for him.

Malo
Colossus could try to do a fast ball special with Kitty but if Tony is going at even half of his top speed, Colossus will still have to anticipate where Tony will be and throw ahead of time which makes him aim much more inaccurate.

Tony knows about Storm's ability and use his intelligence to bring the fight upclose for the win as Storm is not nearly as durable as Tony. Tony recently took a hit from that Micheal in New Avengers using zero point energy, I think he could take a few hits from Storm.

xmarksthespot
shifty
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/uncannyxmenannual07page182ma.jpg

Adam Warlock
That's an old armor. He has a bunch of other new armors he access too.

xmarksthespot
I know... thus the shifty... but I still don't see them harming Shadowcat.
http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/640/640853/astonishing-x-men-20050810080530460.jpg
http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/640/640853/astonishing-x-men-20050810080531288.jpg
http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/640/640853/astonishing-x-men-20050810080529757.jpg
http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/640/640853/astonishing-x-men-20050810080531960.jpg

Plus I really don't think you can say he's going to call all his other armours or that he's wearing any particularly special armour in this fight.

stormfront13
yteah, x-marks is right they have no way to harm kitty

Apolloknight
Yeah, people underestimate storm alot, she rarely ever use the full extent of her power because she so damn environmentally conscious.

Sixth_Winged
With extremis Ironman, NA's chances kinda tips the odd far more for them in this match up. He's a true superspeed now, has a healing factor, can make his armor adapt for things, has tons of other different offensive and defensive powers up his sleeve now.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by stormfront13
apparentlly it's not as storm has proved a match for iron-man...and he's admitted that she's a match for him.


He definately didn't say that with his EXTREMIS armor...

Iron Man takes everyone out by himself no sweat

All you X-fans need to start reading some IM or some NA and see what he's all about now.

If Tony ever said that it must have been when he was using his...

Sixth_Winged
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1875/exironmanvscd14iq.th.jpg

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8356/exironmanvscd21gi.th.jpg

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/48/exironmanvscd30rf.th.jpg

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5075/exironmanvscd46pb.th.jpg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7493/exironmanvscd55wn.th.jpg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9340/exironmanvscd69ju.th.jpg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1818/exironmanvscd79fm.th.jpg

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/8404/exironmanvscd84ny.th.jpg

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/6264/exironmanvscd95gi.th.jpg

an example of just how badass he has become and how fast extremis armor can react.

xmarksthespot
Never trust a man with a moustache.

Sixth_Winged
oh, and here's the page after that.
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2213/exironmanvscd105uh.th.jpg

ixie
Storm alone can take on the whole New Avengers.

Sixth_Winged
how? tony's computer targeting system is fast and accurate enought to apprehend her with a repulsor blast.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
how? tony's computer targeting system is fast and accurate enought to apprehend her with a repulsor blast. Not if she was intangible shifty

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Not if she was intangible shifty

that's assuming kitty gets to her first. Besides, the ironman armor has these new magneto EM-manipulation powers. And we know Mags has done something akin to disrupting her while phased with that.

current extremis agressive Tony, is getting written solely on efficiency and could logically figure out Storm is the biggest threat if she gets loose.

xmarksthespot
A long time ago. I've seen her take a nuclear explosion at it's epicentre.

Frankly the only thing the NA team here has going for them is Iron Man.

Sixth_Winged
Kitty? Yeah, i've seen her dipped in Magma in AXM 15 just recently too. But fact still remains she is not totally vulnerable to whatever anyone dishes out, she still got disrupted while phased by Mags and that Marauder guy on morlock massacres or something.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Kitty? Yeah, i've seen her dipped in Magma in AXM 15 just recently too. But fact still remains she is not totally vulnerable to whatever anyone dishes out, she still got disrupted while phased by Mags and that Marauder guy on morlock massacres or something. Both were before intangibility became her natural state. The former was arguably a plot device/pis moment. I recall afterwards Magneto feels really bad about hurting a child and gives up or something.

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Both were before intangibility became her natural state. The former was arguably a plot device/pis moment. I recall afterwards Magneto feels really bad about hurting a child and gives up or something.

yeah, but she ain't no child anymore and Tony would be all like:

"b1tch deserved it" laughing out loud

Seriously though, a repulsor blast coupled with the reflexes the extremis armor provides him is more than enough to shoot storm before kitty can even reach them. Look at the scans, he was relaxin himself with a fraction of a section.

she'd be better off trying to formulate a plan with colossus on getting near him to disrupt his tech. That is assuming he hasn't analized it yet like he did in NA with all those attacks being thrown around and adapt to it.

xmarksthespot
Meh... this is really just X-Men vs Iron Man. Take out Iron Man they're all dead. With Iron Man there, NA i.e. Iron Man wins but they can't kill Shadowcat and she'd probably save her lover too. The NA are a very unbalanced team.

Blink would pwn him though and that's all that matters.

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Meh... this is really just X-Men vs Iron Man. Take out Iron Man they're all dead. With Iron Man there, NA i.e. Iron Man wins but they can't kill Shadowcat and she'd probably save her lover too. The NA are a very unbalanced team.

Blink would pwn him though and that's all that matters.

laughing it's true. Spider-man also has a bit going for him. He has tony's armor's ability to adapt to an energy attack as evident with his match against Stegron. Other than that, NA is pretty much unbalanced.

Grimm22
Kitty is quickly becoming the Invisible Woman of the X-men yes

She started off with lame powers and whatnot, but she has grown to become more powerful, smarter and skilled.

Kitty is the main obstacle here wink

The rest can be beaten withen a certain amount of effort

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Sparkz
The iron man just simply moves out the way, kitty can't fly so then she falls from 300 feet into the air...

Kitty can fly. She just, well, doesn't. She's done it before. I have comic proof, just not on me since I'm work. But she does it in X-treme X-men. So really, Kitty can just fly to Iron Man and take him out. Everyone is figuring that he'll see it coming, too. Not if Storm or Cyclops are blasting away at him with lightning and optic blasts. She just flies right up behind him and bam. He's down.

Or, if I may use an old move, Cyke could pull the no-visor shot on Iron Man. He's not taking that well at all.

To be honest, besides Iron Man, I believe Iron Spider-man is the toughest foe here. He'd be the hardest one to hit and would probably prove to be quite the problem with a few of the X-men (Wolverine, Beast, Cyke), especially with his new costume. But he would eventually be taken out.

Anyway. The X-men win this fight. Far too powerful and versatile for these New Avengers.

nimbus006
People you are severely underestimating Spider-man, and Spider-Women for that matter. Spider-Women can release her phermones thing and there go all the men period. Spider-man with his new suit has the potential to take down Storm in my opinion. And if he doesnt get it done Iron Man finishes off the rest of the X-men. Spider-man takes Beast down, Wolverine and Cap stalemate for a long time, Jessica seduces Cyclops then moves to Colusses. Luke Cage holds off Colusses until Jessica gets there, although he will probably be pretty f*cked up by the time she gets there. Ironman punks storm Im sorry. He is just too powerful for her. Kitty is a problem here i guess, but IM will find a way to take her down, he's to smart not too.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by nimbus006
People you are severely underestimating Spider-man, and Spider-Women for that matter. Spider-Women can release her phermones thing and there go all the men period. Spider-man with his new suit has the potential to take down Storm in my opinion. And if he doesnt get it done Iron Man finishes off the rest of the X-men. Spider-man takes Beast down, Wolverine and Cap stalemate for a long time, Jessica seduces Cyclops then moves to Colusses. Luke Cage holds off Colusses until Jessica gets there, although he will probably be pretty f*cked up by the time she gets there. Ironman punks storm Im sorry. He is just too powerful for her. Kitty is a problem here i guess, but IM will find a way to take her down, he's to smart not too.

I didn't underestimate Spider-Man at all. I know that he actually poses quite a threat here. Beast is a non-factor, since Spidey would quickly take care of him. Cyke could hold him at bay, but most likely not hit him. Spidey could also (even easier now) take out Wolverine. Storm would be out of his league, however. As would Shadowcat.

I do agree, however, that Wolverine and Cap will pretty much stalemate for the whole match until someone else intereferes with their fight.

Luke Cage will do no such thing against Colossus. That's just crazy-talk, my friend.

Spider-Woman's pheremones will have no affect on Colossus either, since he doesn't breathe or anything like that. So, with her thinking she's got him under control, he'll calmly move to her and snap her neck or something like that. Or really, any of the others can take her down.

Storm does play a valuable part here, although I do agree that Iron Man is more powerful/versatile and would beat her. That's why I think Shadowcat can take him instead. But, Storm could lay some damage down first, especially on everyone else who's not Iron Man.

Cyclops will just be quite the nuisance to all of the New Avengers. Optic blasts will target each of them. And save for Iron Man and probably Spider-Man, could prove fatal/KOing.

The X-men just have too much power/skill/versatility here to not win. As well as teamwork and experience from years of working together. Not that I'm taking that away from the NA, but this team of X-men has been working together longer than just what their name is--the NEW Avengers.

Grimm22
Key assets for each team:

X-men

-Shadowcat

-Storm

Avengers

Iron Man

stormfront13
the x-men definitley win here. storm and shadowcat are the biggest threats here. storm does in fact have force-fields...and kitty can do the whole phase and fly stunt. kitty should be able to take out tony's armor...and storm can literally take the rest. did anyone look at the pictures i posted? all the grounded characters are taken back by flash floods..and spider-woman and spider-man will literallly get taken up in the hurricane just like the sentinal in the pic i posted.

Scarlet_Spidey
Wolverine is immortal and collossus practically invulnerable. Nuff said.
And this is quite the weird topic, friendly clans fighting each other ?

Accel
Originally posted by stormfront13
the x-men definitley win here. storm and shadowcat are the biggest threats here. storm does in fact have force-fields...and kitty can do the whole phase and fly stunt. kitty should be able to take out tony's armor...and storm can literally take the rest. did anyone look at the pictures i posted? all the grounded characters are taken back by flash floods..and spider-woman and spider-man will literallly get taken up in the hurricane just like the sentinal in the pic i posted.
Iron Man is still faster than Storm and he knows about their abilities, so he'd probably take her out first before she could do any real damage.

Scarlet_Spidey
HELLOOO-oooo .... is anyone aware of the fact that wolverine is unvulnerable and immortal ?

Soleran
he's a pimple ti IM

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Scarlet_Spidey
HELLOOO-oooo .... is anyone aware of the fact that wolverine is unvulnerable and immortal ?

No one is aware of it because what you say is incorrect. I'm just saying this now to save yourself a flaming from the other, more rabid members here.

Wolverine is neither invulnerable nor immortal. He has a healing factor and an adamantium skeleton. That's it.

Scarlet_Spidey
Yeah ... but he always heals very quickly and he never ages. He can't die unless he hasn't got oxygen.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Grimm22
Iron Man >> Storm no expression

Cap > Wolverine

Ronin >> Wolverine

Storm could easily take out Iron Man given the right situation but in a team battle he'd have the edge.

Wolverine already fought Echo. He as in the forest and she attacked him the art work in the story in really expressive and surreal so it is difficult to see what is happening but before the fighting stop it seemed like Wolverine had the edge.

Also Wolverine has not only gotten the upper hand on Cap while he was mind controlled but he also stalemated him before and effortlessly saved Caps as when he was gettting owned by ninjas.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Wolverine is neither invulnerable nor immortal. He has a healing factor and an adamantium skeleton. That's it.

Wolverine may very well be immortal. It has never be clarified in the pages of a comic BUT what has been said is that Dr. Cornelius suspected that he was. That was the very reason he was chosen for the Weapon X program and who knows more about Wolverine then Dr. Cornelius did(Pre HoM that is)? Is he immortal? Who can say. But considering the stuff he has survived the evidence supporting that he may be immortal far out weighs anything suggesting otherwise.

Scarlet_Spidey
His cells renew every second stopping him from aging. If you don't die of age, your immortal too. No one really knows how old he is.

nimbus006
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I didn't underestimate Spider-Man at all. I know that he actually poses quite a threat here. Beast is a non-factor, since Spidey would quickly take care of him. Cyke could hold him at bay, but most likely not hit him. Spidey could also (even easier now) take out Wolverine. Storm would be out of his league, however. As would Shadowcat.

I do agree, however, that Wolverine and Cap will pretty much stalemate for the whole match until someone else intereferes with their fight.

Luke Cage will do no such thing against Colossus. That's just crazy-talk, my friend.

Spider-Woman's pheremones will have no affect on Colossus either, since he doesn't breathe or anything like that. So, with her thinking she's got him under control, he'll calmly move to her and snap her neck or something like that. Or really, any of the others can take her down.

Storm does play a valuable part here, although I do agree that Iron Man is more powerful/versatile and would beat her. That's why I think Shadowcat can take him instead. But, Storm could lay some damage down first, especially on everyone else who's not Iron Man.

Cyclops will just be quite the nuisance to all of the New Avengers. Optic blasts will target each of them. And save for Iron Man and probably Spider-Man, could prove fatal/KOing.

The X-men just have too much power/skill/versatility here to not win. As well as teamwork and experience from years of working together. Not that I'm taking that away from the NA, but this team of X-men has been working together longer than just what their name is--the NEW Avengers.

I wasn't refering to your post, mostly the ones before. I know Luke Cage cannot hold down Colusses that why i said that he would be f*cked up after, but i had to do something with him. And thats a good point about Colusses not breathing. However, i do believe that Wolverine is more than capable of stalemating Cap. They both are supremely skilled fighters (whether or not you don't think Wolverine is), both are above peak human ability in alomst everything, and both have great defenses (Cap has shield, Wolverine- has Healing factor). Ironman is too much for either Kitty or Storm. Ironman stood up to the combined forces of all the mutants in the world combined (Collectivist)and wasn't even that phased. I believe he can handle Storm and Kitty. Since your right about Colusses not being phased by the phermones attack, then once Spiderman is done with Beast , he has a tough battle with Colusses which in my opinion tips in Spiderman scale at the end (He is just to versatile).Would be an interesting fight to be honest. Oh and i forgot about Echo, she can help Jessica by distracting Cyclops.

Scarlet_Spidey
Don't underestimate Beast, he's very smart and very strong as well. And i don't think anyone can take on Wolverine OR Collossus.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Scarlet_Spidey
His cells renew every second stopping him from aging. If you don't die of age, your immortal too. No one really knows how old he is.


He was born in the late 19th century.

Adam Warlock
Iron Man's pretty quick now. In NA# 20 he flew pretty fast. He's much faster than anyone on that X-Men team. Storm's reflexes aren't anything special. He'd destroy her pretty quickly.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by nimbus006
I wasn't refering to your post, mostly the ones before. I know Luke Cage cannot hold down Colusses that why i said that he would be f*cked up after, but i had to do something with him. And thats a good point about Colusses not breathing. However, i do believe that Wolverine is more than capable of stalemating Cap. They both are supremely skilled fighters (whether or not you don't think Wolverine is), both are above peak human ability in alomst everything, and both have great defenses (Cap has shield, Wolverine- has Healing factor). Ironman is too much for either Kitty or Storm. Ironman stood up to the combined forces of all the mutants in the world combined (Collectivist)and wasn't even that phased. I believe he can handle Storm and Kitty. Since your right about Colusses not being phased by the phermones attack, then once Spiderman is done with Beast which will be quick, he has a tough battle with Colusses which in my opinion tips in Spiderman scale at the end (He is just to versatile).

On thunder clap will win a fight for Collosus if he is fighting Spider-man. Spider-man can't avoid it and it would rupture every organ in his body and turn his insides into paste.

Scarlet_Spidey
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He was born in the late 19th century.

Yeah but ehm ... what yeardate wink . Still, it proves that he is immortal.

Adam Warlock
These are scans from NA #20 courtesy of Scoobless:

1. http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00196fp.jpg
2. http://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00202ii.jpg
3. http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00215jn.jpg
4. http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00223sw.jpg
5. http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00233kw.jpg

Iron Man couldn't keep up with the Sentry, but he was still able to follow him nearly all the way to the sun.

Oh, if Bob was on the team... It would be over in seconds. Man if it was just Bob VS. these X-Men... Over in seconds...

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Adam Warlock
These are scans from NA #20 courtesy of Scoobless:

1. http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00196fp.jpg
2. http://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00202ii.jpg
3. http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00215jn.jpg
4. http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00223sw.jpg
5. http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00233kw.jpg

Iron Man couldn't keep up with the Sentry, but he was still able to follow him nearly all the way to the sun.

Once again i agree

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Oh, if Bob was on the team... It would be over in seconds. Man if it was just Bob VS. these X-Men... Over in seconds...

Yesss ... he could confuse them to death, by trying to explain his powers. smile

Scarlet_Spidey
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Yesss ... he could confuse them to death, by trying to explain his powers. smile

Owned !

stormfront13
can we all agree that it would basically be the x-men VS iron-man here? good. let's not forget the fact that storm has force-fields that can protect her and cyke. cyke just keeps releasing full power optic blasts at tony, while storm creates a hurricane like the one in the pic i showed, and kitty casually sneaks up behind him and phases through his suit. yes...he knows their abilities...but they all also know what he is capable of as well.

Accel
Tony's still much faster, though. Not too mention he's very good at multitasking now. He could very well take out Storm and Cyclops at the same time.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Scarlet_Spidey
Yeah ... but he always heals very quickly and he never ages. He can't die unless he hasn't got oxygen.

He does age. Just very slowly. Again, just trying to help.

And he can die other ways as well. Like being completely incenerated. or too much damage to himself. His healing can be and has been overloaded.

But I would definitely get my facts straight first before you try and pass them off as the only authority.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by nimbus006
I wasn't refering to your post, mostly the ones before. I know Luke Cage cannot hold down Colusses that why i said that he would be f*cked up after, but i had to do something with him. And thats a good point about Colusses not breathing. However, i do believe that Wolverine is more than capable of stalemating Cap. They both are supremely skilled fighters (whether or not you don't think Wolverine is), both are above peak human ability in alomst everything, and both have great defenses (Cap has shield, Wolverine- has Healing factor). Ironman is too much for either Kitty or Storm. Ironman stood up to the combined forces of all the mutants in the world combined (Collectivist)and wasn't even that phased. I believe he can handle Storm and Kitty. Since your right about Colusses not being phased by the phermones attack, then once Spiderman is done with Beast , he has a tough battle with Colusses which in my opinion tips in Spiderman scale at the end (He is just to versatile).Would be an interesting fight to be honest. Oh and i forgot about Echo, she can help Jessica by distracting Cyclops.

I appreciate your effort there to use some logic (really, I do, since most people just tend to throw it to the wind and toss out some biased answer), but I must disagree with some things.

Iron Man has basically no offense against Kitty. She has every offense against him. I believe she alone will take him out. Iron Man did not take on every single mutant in the world. He couldn't have. He'd be dead if he did. Do you know how many mutants there are? And how powerful most of them are? He'd be a memory after that battle. Hell, there are single mutants who can completely decimate him.

And I love Spider-Man, but he's not doing a damn thing to Colossus. Try as he might and as versatile as he may be, his attacks will be completely futile against the mighty Russian. As soon as Colossus gets his hands on him (which there is a good chance, with Spidey being on the offensive as you say), it's over for Spider-Man.

Cyclops will definitely be a problem for all of the NA. He can blast pretty much all of them as fast as he can look at 'em.

Again, the X-men are just too much for this team.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Scarlet_Spidey
Yeah but ehm ... what yeardate wink . Still, it proves that he is immortal.

He's not immortal, I'm sorry. He was born in the late 19th century and is about 120-130 years old right now. He DOES age, just VERY SLOWLY. And YES, he will eventually die of old age. It will take probably another century or two, but he will eventually pass away.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I appreciate your effort there to use some logic (really, I do, since most people just tend to throw it to the wind and toss out some biased answer), but I must disagree with some things.

Iron Man has basically no offense against Kitty. She has every offense against him. I believe she alone will take him out. Iron Man did not take on every single mutant in the world. He couldn't have. He'd be dead if he did. Do you know how many mutants there are? And how powerful most of them are? He'd be a memory after that battle. Hell, there are single mutants who can completely decimate him.

No offense ? .... What if Kitty goes to attack Tony Iron mans suit. She solidifys, and another suit hits her from behind with a concussive blast. Iron man wins smile

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And I love Spider-Man, but he's not doing a damn thing to Colossus. Try as he might and as versatile as he may be, his attacks will be completely futile against the mighty Russian. As soon as Colossus gets his hands on him (which there is a good chance, with Spidey being on the offensive as you say), it's over for Spider-Man.

Cyclops will definitely be a problem for all of the NA. He can blast pretty much all of them as fast as he can look at 'em..

Agreed

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Again, the X-men are just too much for this team. ..

I disagree, Iron man can take out most of them at the same time, Spiderman, Cap and Luke Cage take ot the stragglers. smile

Metalmanx
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
No offense ? .... What if Kitty goes to attack Tony Iron mans suit. She solidifys, and another suit hits her from behind with a concussive blast. Iron man wins smile



Agreed



I disagree, Iron man can take out most of them at the same time, Spiderman, Cap and Luke Cage take ot the stragglers. smile

...Why would Kitty become tangible when she doesn't have to be? Especially considering that intangibility is her natural state. She's much smarter than that, especially considering her opponents.

Iron Man does have the ability to cause major damage to them all, but so does Storm. Just as easily as you say IM can do that, Storm can do the same to the NA.

Accel
Originally posted by Metalmanx
...Why would Kitty become tangible when she doesn't have to be? Especially considering that intangibility is her natural state. She's much smarter than that, especially considering her opponents.

Iron Man does have the ability to cause major damage to them all, but so does Storm. Just as easily as you say IM can do that, Storm can do the same to the NA.
Iron Man used an energy he called Zero Point Energy or something against the Collective. I believe it would prove useful against Kitty while she's intangible because IIRC it's based off of Magneto's powers.

Like I said before, Tony's much faster than any of them and can multitask easily. He could take out Storm and Cyclops right away and then worry about Kitty while the rest of his team handle the rest of the X-men.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Metalmanx
...Why would Kitty become tangible when she doesn't have to be? Especially considering that intangibility is her natural state. She's much smarter than that, especially considering her opponents.

How the hell is she supposed to hurt him, unless she becomes tangible. To say she can harm someone when intangible, is an Oxymoron. smile

Originally posted by Metalmanx
...Iron Man does have the ability to cause major damage to them all, but so does Storm. Just as easily as you say IM can do that, Storm can do the same to the NA..

Storm is a real powerhouse who is regularly underated, but it would take musch for someone like Cap to Speed Blitz her, Sneek up on her. smile

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Accel
Iron Man used an energy he called Zero Point Energy or something against the Collective. I believe it would prove useful against Kitty while she's intangible because IIRC it's based off of Magneto's powers.

Like I said before, Tony's much faster than any of them and can multitask easily. He could take out Storm and Cyclops right away and then worry about Kitty while the rest of his team handle the rest of the X-men.


I've been wondering something. What does IIRC mean?

And although I understand where you're coming from, at the moment it's pure speculation as to whether or not Iron Man can defend himself against Kitty. Especially if he is busy with others at the time and gets ambushed or anything like that.

And yes, he's fast. But he's not fast enough to completely catch them off guard from a complete standstill. Only super-speedsters can do that. He needs to build up speed. They would see him coming. And Cyke could even keep him at bay as long as he keeps his eyes (eye, haha) on him.

Anyone who goes for Colossus gets their ass kicked. Anyone who goes for Storm will get fried. And so on and so forth.

Can you give me a brief synopsis about this Collective I've been hearing about?

Metalmanx
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
How the hell is she supposed to hurt him, unless she becomes tangible. To say she can harm someone when intangible, is an Oxymoron. smile



Storm is a real powerhouse who is regularly underated, but it would take musch for someone like Cap to Speed Blitz her, Sneek up on her. smile

Dude. That's what Kitty does. She doesn't become tangible to hurt electronics. She phases right through them, staying intangible the whole way.

And when did Cap learn to fly or run at sub-sonic speeds? Because it'd be a cold day in Hell before Storm decided to take this fight from the ground. Besides, Cap is going to have his hands extremely full with either Beast or Wolverine, either of which can stalemate him (I actually think Beast would beat him, but that's me).

nimbus006
Metal Max the Collectvist holds the combined power of all the mutants who lost theirs in House of M, thats why i said Iron Man took a shot from the combined forces of all the mutants, b/c he did techincally. He is a mutant who absorbs energy, and was struck by a ball of energy that came from the sky and now he is believed to have the combined powers of all of them.

Accel
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I've been wondering something. What does IIRC mean?

And although I understand where you're coming from, at the moment it's pure speculation as to whether or not Iron Man can defend himself against Kitty. Especially if he is busy with others at the time and gets ambushed or anything like that.

And yes, he's fast. But he's not fast enough to completely catch them off guard from a complete standstill. Only super-speedsters can do that. He needs to build up speed. They would see him coming. And Cyke could even keep him at bay as long as he keeps his eyes (eye, haha) on him.

Anyone who goes for Colossus gets their ass kicked. Anyone who goes for Storm will get fried. And so on and so forth.

Can you give me a brief synopsis about this Collective I've been hearing about?
IIRC= If I Recall Correctly.

When The Scarlet Witch caused 99% of all mutants to lose their powers, all that mutant energy went into space. It came back down onto Earth and possessed a mutant named Micheal and, thus, became the Collective. It essentially had all the powers of the the mutants who lost their powers on M-Day (Magneto, Quicksilver, Jubilee, etc).

IM does a have a degree of super-speed, now, as his fight with Crimson Dynamo has shown...
http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im070108sz.jpg
...but I will agree that any defenses Tony has against Kitty is pretty speculation at this point.

However, against Colossus, Tony doe have the option of pulling out those magnetic repulsors he used on Hulk before to keep him in the air.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Dude. That's what Kitty does. She doesn't become tangible to hurt electronics. She phases right through them, staying intangible the whole way.

Fair enough, Cap will have prepared for this, and have her fighting against someone she'll be less dangerous against. Meanwhile Tony (While quite Sucessfully taking out numerous other X-men), has one of his other suits ready to strike whenever, she becomes tangible.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And when did Cap learn to fly or run at sub-sonic speeds? .

He's taken out airbourne targets many a time b4(With the shield), and hes currently dodging bullets in his own title.

Because it'd be a cold day in Hell before Storm decided to take this fight from the ground..

Yeah maybe, but i thought we agreed that Ironman is more than up to the task of beating her


Besides, Cap is going to have his hands extremely full with either Beast or Wolverine, either of which can stalemate him (I actually think Beast would beat him, but that's me)...

I agree that Logan is more than a match, but Henry ? Dont make me laugh. smile

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Accel
IIRC= If I Recall Correctly.

When The Scarlet Witch caused 99% of all mutants to lose their powers, all that mutant energy went into space. It came back down onto Earth and possessed a mutant named Micheal and, thus, became the Collective. It essentially had all the powers of the the mutants who lost their powers on M-Day (Magneto, Quicksilver, Jubilee, etc).

IM does a have a degree of super-speed, now, as his fight with Crimson Dynamo has shown...
http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im070108sz.jpg
...but I will agree that any defenses Tony has against Kitty is pretty speculation at this point.

However, against Colossus, Tony doe have the option of pulling out those magnetic repulsors he used on Hulk before to keep him in the air.

Ah, I see. What I want to know is how Iron Man defended himself against Magneto's powers. Unless, of course, this Micheal had no idea how to use said powers. Which still makes no sense. 99% of mutants powers in on person and he can't defeat Iron Man? No offense, but that sounds like a major case of PIS to me, and I hardly EVER say that.

And I know he has a degree of super-speed, but nothing faster than these X-men have seen before, that's all I meant.

And yes. Tony could keep Colossus at bay like that, but he will be leaving himself open to other attacks. And as soon as Kitty gets to him (I really believe she will), that's it for that. Colossus can then tear him apart.

Like I said before, this is pretty much X-men vs. Iron Man (and to a degree, Iron Spider-Man as well).

Metalmanx
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Fair enough, Cap will have prepared for this, and have her fighting against someone she'll be less dangerous against. Meanwhile Tony (While quite Sucessfully taking out numerous other X-men), has one of his other suits ready to strike whenever, she becomes tangible.



He's taken out airbourne targets many a time b4(With the shield), and hes currently dodging bullets in his own title.



Yeah maybe, but i thought we agreed that Ironman is more than up to the task of beating her




I agree that Logan is more than a match, but Henry ? Dont make me laugh. smile

I'm sorry, man. This isn't working. You can just say Cap will make Kitty fight someone else. Maybe if he asks her real nice, she'll leave Iron Man alone roll eyes (sarcastic) . Besides, who else can do a thing to her? None of them. She won't stay tangible in this fight. Why would she?

And it seems that you are underestimating Beast, like everony else does. Beast has more than what it takes to defeat Cap (stronger, faster, much smarter, brilliant tactician, resourceful as hell, more agile, better reflexes, better dexterity, superior equilibrium, better senses, a healing factor, etc.). But whatever, I'll let you think that. Doesn't change the fact that Cap is a non-factor in this fight.

Accel
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Ah, I see. What I want to know is how Iron Man defended himself against Magneto's powers. Unless, of course, this Micheal had no idea how to use said powers. Which still makes no sense. 99% of mutants powers in on person and he can't defeat Iron Man? No offense, but that sounds like a major case of PIS to me, and I hardly EVER say that.

And I know he has a degree of super-speed, but nothing faster than these X-men have seen before, that's all I meant.

And yes. Tony could keep Colossus at bay like that, but he will be leaving himself open to other attacks. And as soon as Kitty gets to him (I really believe she will), that's it for that. Colossus can then tear him apart.

Like I said before, this is pretty much X-men vs. Iron Man (and to a degree, Iron Spider-Man as well).
Well, yeah, the Collective, "Micheal", didn't know how to use his powers. Iron Man even made note of this. Iron Man managed to stand up to his magnetic attacks using some Zero Point Energy that was designed to stand up to Magneto's powers, but Micheal just came back with another power. It was obvious Micheal didn't have very good control over his abilities.

I know they have dealt with speedsters before. I just believe IM is capable of reacting fast enough to take out Storm and/or Cyke before they become real threats.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Accel
Well, yeah, the Collective, "Micheal", didn't know how to use his powers. Iron Man even made note of this. Iron Man managed to stand up to his magnetic attacks using some Zero Point Energy that was designed to stand up to Magneto's powers, but Micheal just came back with another power. It was obvious Micheal didn't have very good control over his abilities.

I know they have dealt with speedsters before. I just believe IM is capable of reacting fast enough to take out Storm and/or Cyke before they become real threats.

Yea, that makes much more sense now. Because if Micheal knew what he was doing, Iron Man wouldn't exist anymore.

Perhaps he is. I just don't believe him to be able to react faster than they're both used to. Especially Cyclops, in my opinion. If Iron Man is coming for him, Cyke can blast him. It won't damage IM much, but it will stop his attack for the time being. I'm just saying, Cyke has handled both Quicksilver and Northstar before, both of which have FAR HIGHER acceleration speeds than Iron Man.

Again though, I do agree that Iron Man is too much for Storm. And that's why Kitty's here.

Sparkz
Well lets see I don't think this is as one sided as everyone seems to think.

Cyclops and Captain America could certainly be an even fight , Cap's sheild should protect him from Cyclops optic blast's so even if Cap can't get a KO he can hold his own until some1 eles comes to his aid.

Colosus could fight Ronin, no way Ronin can win but she should have enough Speed and skill to at least distract Colossus.

Storm and Iron Man could realy go at it and this fight could go either way.

Beast and Spider-man could go at it and well, Beast would be slaughterd.

Wolverine and luke Cage could also have a good fight especialy since I'm not sure Wolverine can cut cage, or at least cages raw strength would give Logan a problem.

Kitty and Spider-Woman can then fight, and even though she's phasing wolverine has managed to beat Kitty by stabbing her in the foot because she needs to keep that solid so she dosen't phase through the floor, so Spider Woman could then just use a venom blast 9or whatever they are called) to shoot kitty in the foot then when Kitty looses concentration Spider-Woman can take her out.

And of course because Spidey takes out Beast quickly he is instatnly free to aid Cap by taking Cyclops down pretty fast now its 2 on 1, then Spidey Cap and Luke Cage can take out Wolverine, by this point Spider-Woman may have taken out Shadowcat or the others can help her, so then the rest of the team can distract collossus then depending on who wins in the Storm vs Iron Man fight wins the match....so when it all boils down to it its a fight between Iron Man and Storm.

Of course if Collosuss manages to take down Ronnin quickly then my stratagey is stuffed, but I still see Ronnin being able to stay ahead of Colloussus long enough for back up.

Persoanly I'd give this to New Avengers 5.5/10 because I think Iron Man is more likely to be a deciding factor than storm but not by much.

stormfront13
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Storm is a real powerhouse who is regularly underated, but it would take musch for someone like Cap to Speed Blitz her, Sneek up on her. smile

wrong. storm has force-fields, and could sense captain America coming her way from his very first step. also...since when would storm fight on the ground.



well your wrong. storm has been quick enough to avoid things like gunfire...lasers...and even dodged thors hammer when he threw it at he from very close range.

there is still nothing to back up that his suit won't shut-down if kitty phases through it. storm would be more than a distraction for tony...and while he';s distracted with storm, kitty can phase through him. hell...storm might even be able to affect the inside of his suit..and directly attack his body.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I'm sorry, man. This isn't working. You can just say Cap will make Kitty fight someone else. Maybe if he asks her real nice, she'll leave Iron Man alone roll eyes (sarcastic) .

Its not as if this fight is going to take part in a wrestling ring. The match takes place in the city. With Tony patched into the Survellience, Cap can ambush the X-men in any way he wants. There is no one (With exception of Bats and Slade) who can claim to be a better tactician.


Originally posted by Metalmanx
Besides, who else can do a thing to her? None of them. She won't stay tangible in this fight. Why would she?.

Can she really hurt physical beings when intangible? Thats just ridiculous !!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And it seems that you are underestimating Beast, like everony else does. Beast has more than what it takes to defeat Cap (stronger, faster, much smarter, brilliant tactician, resourceful as hell, more agile, better reflexes, better dexterity, superior equilibrium, better senses, a healing factor, etc.). But whatever, I'll let you think that. Doesn't change the fact that Cap is a non-factor in this fight. ?.

Bollocks !!!!!!! Cap has hurt and nearly beaten foes that are FAR, FAR superior to Beast. King Thor, Hyde, Thing etc ! smile

stormfront13
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman



Can she really hurt physical beings when intangible? Thats just ridiculous !!!!!!!!!!!!





actually ...she can

Metalmanx
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Its not as if this fight is going to take part in a wrestling ring. The match takes place in the city. With Tony patched into the Survellience, Cap can ambush the X-men in any way he wants. There is no one (With exception of Bats and Slade) who can claim to be a better tactician.




Can she really hurt physical beings when intangible? Thats just ridiculous !!!!!!!!!!!!



Bollocks !!!!!!! Cap has hurt and nearly beaten foes that are FAR, FAR superior to Beast. King Thor, Hyde, Thing etc ! smile

I never said it was in a wrestling ring. Work with me here, dude. By KMC rules, the fighers start off facing each other a certain distance apart unless otherwise stated by the thread-starter.

And honestly? Cap won't be sneaking up on anyone as long Wolverine is still Wolverine (super-senses and all).

And yea, that's how Shadowcat works.

Yea, I know Cap has done that. We like to call those plot devices. Are you really going to sit there and believe that Cap could've taken out King Thor without a plot device backing him up? Yea. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Both fighting to their full potential and in a well-written scenario (ie, no PIS/plot devices/CIS), Beast is too much for Cap to handle.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I never said it was in a wrestling ring. Work with me here, dude. By KMC rules, the fighers start off facing each other a certain distance apart unless otherwise stated by the thread-starter.

And honestly? Cap won't be sneaking up on anyone as long Wolverine is still Wolverine (super-senses and all).]

He did it quite easilly in Enemy of the state, on the X-men mansion. wink

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And yea, that's how Shadowcat works.).]

Then shes Officially the most powerful Marvel character below Skyfather level. How does anyone beat a character who can't be touched ? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Yea, I know Cap has done that. We like to call those plot devices. Are you really going to sit there and believe that Cap could've taken out King Thor without a plot device backing him up? Yea. roll eyes (sarcastic)

No i don't but .... Cap has had hundreds of these apparently ' plot devices' moments.( Its his specialty) smile I ask, how many times does a characters he have to perform a feat, before it becomes the norm, and not a ' plot device' ? wink

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Both fighting to their full potential and in a well-written scenario (ie, no PIS/plot devices/CIS), Beast is too much for Cap to handle.

I think you'd wish that to be the case, but just is not ! smile

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
He did it quite easilly in Enemy of the state, on the X-men mansion. wink


Cap got the drop on a barely conscious mind controlled Wolverine who had just been put through the meat grinder by a team of X-Men... should we give him a metal or something?

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Cap got the drop on a barely conscious mind controlled Wolverine who had just been put through the meat grinder by a team of X-Men... should we give him a metal or something?

Im pretty sure he had healed ! smile

Metalmanx
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
He did it quite easilly in Enemy of the state, on the X-men mansion. wink



Then shes Officially the most powerful Marvel character below Skyfather level. How does anyone beat a character who can't be touched ? roll eyes (sarcastic)



No i don't but .... Cap has had hundreds of these apparently ' plot devices' moments.( Its his specialty) smile I ask, how many times does a characters he have to perform a feat, before it becomes the norm, and not a ' plot device' ? wink



I think you'd wish that to be the case, but just is not ! smile

It sounds like you're the one wishing that Cap had the ability to take out Beast WITHOUT a plot device.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Metalmanx
It sounds like you're the one wishing that Cap had the ability to take out Beast WITHOUT a plot device.

*yawn*

If i wanted to re read my post, i would have .... re post it. smile

Blade Cutter
OK one thing every body is saying the Kitty will sneak up on Tony and take him out.That is not going to happen.I mean his suit can sense almost any thing.In the second NA comic Iron Man suit radar sense Dr. Strange astral form and like five other hero's and there powers.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Can she really hurt physical beings when intangible? Thats just ridiculous !!!!!!!!!!!!http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y116/anticryste/skrulldies.jpg

Adam Warlock
Originally posted by Blade Cutter
OK one thing every body is saying the Kitty will sneak up on Tony and take him out.That is not going to happen.I mean his suit can sense almost any thing.In the second NA comic Iron Man suit radar sense Dr. Strange astral form and like five other hero's and there powers.

Yep. His sensors will let him know who's around him at all times.

Sneak up on him? Maybe. If she could fly then it would be more probable.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Adam Warlock
If she could fly then it would be more probable. She can fly she did it a lot in Excalibur. Though not at adequate speeds to catch him if she flew up from the ground. Though she could be fastballed near enough to.

Blade Cutter
Give me a second I'm scaning were Tony's suit sense Dr. Strange astral form in another room 100 feet away.She is not sneaking up on him at all.

Blade Cutter
Here.

riceroost
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Im pretty sure he had healed ! smile
Wrong.

Wolverine was clearly and obviously not healed When Cap hit him.

If Wolverine had been healed there is no way on god's green earth a single shot from Cap's shield (let alone 30 shots) would put him out.

Wolverine says right before Cap hits him something to the effect of:

"This is the worst I've ever been hurt."

That includes the many months it took him to recover from the Reaver's torture, when his healing factor bottomed out and his strength and speed dropped to near human levels because of how badly he had been tortured. Deathbird couldn't believe how weak he had become.

That also includes when Magneto ripped out his skeleton and his healing factor dissapeared.

Wolverine was by no means healed in EOTS.

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by stormfront13
wrong. storm has force-fields, and could sense captain America coming her way from his very first step. also...since when would storm fight on the ground.

What? huh what do you mean force fields? She doesn't have any. Unless your count wind spinning around her body as force fields.

Originally posted by stormfront13
there is still nothing to back up that his suit won't shut-down if kitty phases through it. storm would be more than a distraction for tony...and while he';s distracted with storm, kitty can phase through him. hell...storm might even be able to affect the inside of his suit..and directly attack his body.

And saying Ironman would just stay there and wait till Kitty phases though him is quite unlikely. He has info on almost every superhero and considering his flight speed and can has sensors that could detect just about anyone and any energy signature. He could just avoid her long enough for him to analyze her powers like he did against the collective and how to affect her. She has never shown flight speed nearing his and fastball's quite useless now with his reflex from his extremis upgrade.

Him being distracted from fighting fighting storm is very doubtful considering how fast he can attack now and the fact that Storm is only a streetleveller in durability.

Grimm22
Originally posted by riceroost
Wrong.

Wolverine was clearly and obviously not healed When Cap hit him.

If Wolverine had been healed there is no way on god's green earth a single shot from Cap's shield (let alone 30 shots) would put him out.

Wolverine says right before Cap hits him something to the effect of:

"This is the worst I've ever been hurt."

That includes the many months it took him to recover from the Reaver's torture, when his healing factor bottomed out and his strength and speed dropped to near human levels because of how badly he had been tortured. Deathbird couldn't believe how weak he had become.

That also includes when Magneto ripped out his skeleton and his healing factor dissapeared.

Wolverine was by no means healed in EOTS.

Because it couldnt be bad writing or anything like that roll eyes (sarcastic)

Wynndar
Avengers r getting a little underestimated here.....Shadowcat taking Ironman?

xmarksthespot
It's a possibility but probably not that likely considering how !extreme! Iron Man is now.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Wynndar
Avengers r getting a little underestimated here.....Shadowcat taking Ironman?

Indeed ... I bet shes only depicted as the 'unstoppable intangible power house' by the ever so talanted Chris Claremont. roll eyes (sarcastic) How can she be im-material, and able to physically harm at the same time? Its a complete contradiction of her powers. Its like Iceman burning people to death ! smile

xmarksthespot
She can 'harm' Iron Man because her phasing disrupts electronics adn has always been depicted as such. She can drag people into objects. But she wouldn't be able to catch Iron Man. He's too extreme.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
What? huh what do you mean force fields? She doesn't have any. Unless your count wind spinning around her body as force fields.



And saying Ironman would just stay there and wait till Kitty phases though him is quite unlikely. He has info on almost every superhero and considering his flight speed and can has sensors that could detect just about anyone and any energy signature. He could just avoid her long enough for him to analyze her powers like he did against the collective and how to affect her. She has never shown flight speed nearing his and fastball's quite useless now with his reflex from his extremis upgrade.

Him being distracted from fighting fighting storm is very doubtful considering how fast he can attack now and the fact that Storm is only a streetleveller in durability.

Kitty flies at a speed of 25,000 miles/24 hours or just over 1,000 miles per hour. When she "flies" she phases with everything, so the earth spins underneath her and she flies in the opposite direction. The Earth revolves at just over 1,000 mph. It happened in X-treme X-men (don't have the issue # on me now, at work again).

She can most definitely speed-blitz/sneak up on him fast enough without any sort of help from her teammates. And she can do that from the get go. No acceleration necessary. She can just bolt right for him from the very beginning. And since Tony isn't a mind-reader, he'll be completely caught off-guard.

She will get him. And once he's down, the New Avengers go down hard.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
She can 'harm' Iron Man because her phasing disrupts electronics adn has always been depicted as such. She can drag people into objects. But she wouldn't be able to catch Iron Man. He's too extreme.

I like what you've done there; ... Extermis ..... Extreme ! Hilarious roll eyes (sarcastic)

I was referring to other characters. I pointed out to 'Metal thingy' that if she intended to hurt another avenger, Tony would be able to use one of his various suits to target her from above. I was then informed that she's is able to attack when intangible. confused Which i believe is ****ING ridiculous. Although probably true, when you considering the general crap that has been found in the X-books since the late 80's. smile

snoopdogg
Catching Tony will be too hard for Kitty cause of the exremeness of IM. But lets's say IM is fighting Storm and Colossus fastballs her up there? Kitty has shorted IM out before and she also shorted out Nimrods once before.

xmarksthespot
I know I'm hilarious I don't need you to point it out. Frankly CC may be a senile old coot these days but Iron Man flying to the sun and back is just as stupid and it's not half as ridiculous as soulvision.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
I like what you've done there; ... Extermis ..... Extreme ! Hilarious roll eyes (sarcastic)

I was referring to other characters. I pointed out to 'Metal thingy' that if she intended to hurt another avenger, Tony would be able to use one of his various suits to target her from above. I was then informed that she's is able to attack when intangible. confused Which i believe is ****ING ridiculous. Although probably true, when you considering the general crap that has been found in the X-books since the late 80's. smile

...'Metal Thingy'? My screen name really isn't all that difficult to read, is it?

Gah. Shadowcat has ALWAYS been able to do that to electronics. Of COURSE, she needs to be tangible in order to actually touch any other kind of opponent that doesn't deal with electrical components. But when it comes to electronics, she just phases through them. Her scattered atoms apparently disrupt the electrical processes and short them.

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Kitty flies at a speed of 25,000 miles/24 hours or just over 1,000 miles per hour. When she "flies" she phases with everything, so the earth spins underneath her and she flies in the opposite direction. The Earth revolves at just over 1,000 mph. It happened in X-treme X-men (don't have the issue # on me now, at work again).

She can most definitely speed-blitz/sneak up on him fast enough without any sort of help from her teammates. And she can do that from the get go. No acceleration necessary. She can just bolt right for him from the very beginning. And since Tony isn't a mind-reader, he'll be completely caught off-guard.

She will get him. And once he's down, the New Avengers go down hard.

laughing please oh please show us any scan or proof at all that 25,000 miles. I'm sorry if i don't take this "I don't remember the issue and just take your word for it" deal. 25,000 really? That certainly didn't make sense if you try looking at the battles she's been through. Heck, with that speed she wouldn't even need to be fastballed in Astonishing by Colossus since she can reach her enemy herself.

And even if it did happen, it's a one time deal we know writers in the future and the present, will and have ignored and thus unusable. It also contradicts other fight's she's been through other on that one where that speed could've been quite useful.

And once again folks, look at the scans showing his(tony's) reflex speed from the latter pages. He has speed enough steer away people flying at him in midair if they pose a threat on contact like Yelena on NA annual.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
laughing please oh please show us any scan or proof at all that 25,000 miles. I'm sorry if i don't take this "I don't remember the issue and just take your word for it" deal. 25,000 really? That certainly didn't make sense if you try looking at the battles she's been through. Heck, with that speed she wouldn't even need to be fastballed in Astonishing by Colossus since she can reach her enemy herself. And even if it did happen, it's a one time deal we know writers in the future will and have ignored and thus unusable.

Why would I make that up? I literally have the issue at home. I'm at work right now though, so I have no idea what issue number it is. If you want, I'll try to look it up for you, if it'll ease your mind and all.

And, if you read that more correctly, you'd see that I didn't say that she flies at 25,000 mph. I said she flies at just over 1,000 mph, or 25,000 miles/24 hours.

She did it in X-treme X-men. And, according to Xmarks, also more than once in Excalibur. So, it can be and has been done.

Metalmanx
X-treme X-men #27.

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Why would I make that up? I literally have the issue at home. I'm at work right now though, so I have no idea what issue number it is. If you want, I'll try to look it up for you, if it'll ease your mind and all.

And, if you read that more correctly, you'd see that I didn't say that she flies at 25,000 mph. I said she flies at just over 1,000 mph, or 25,000 miles/24 hours.

She did it in X-treme X-men. And, according to Xmarks, also more than once in Excalibur. So, it can be and has been done.

Then i guess scans would be useful right now. And i didn't say you made it up, i'm saying i don't buy people telling giving out information and lacking references to give. You could have misinterpreted it wrong or got it inaccurately or for whatever other reasons. My reasons, are those showings are questionable when it compares with Kitty performance in most battles i've seen her fight in.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Then i guess scans would be useful right now. And i didn't say you made it up, i'm saying i don't buy people telling giving out information and lacking references to give. You could have misinterpreted it wrong or got it inaccurately.

Okay, understandable. My apologies. I'm just used to people spazzing and biting my head off on this forum. I'm more surprised when a level-headed person debates with me and uses logic and such.

So basically, kudos to you. I actually do have the scans at home on my computer, since I used them as proof before. When I get home, and if I remember (I have a HORRIBLE memor), I'll post em. I think I'll remember.

Sixth_Winged
it's ok. I'll look that issue up, probably download it.

oh and btw. how does she fly in the opposite direction the earth is spinning through?

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
it's ok. I'll look that issue up, probably download it.

oh and btw. how does she fly in the opposite direction the earth is spinning through?

I'm afraid I don't follow.

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by Metalmanx
I'm afraid I don't follow.

Sorry. i said it wrong. What I meant was; how does she fly in the same direction the world is spinning? If she gains speed since the world spins and she flies of to the opposite direction thus covering more distance, what happens if she goes along on the same direction instead?

That would mean if she was going along with the flow, the opposite effect happens and while she's trying to fly at that direction, the earth does the same and makes her cover less distance. It's like walking upwards and escalator going downwards and vice versa.

That would mean she has 50/50 chance assuming her peak speed could make her speed enough to catch ironman depending on where they stand. See where i'm getting at?

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Sorry. i said it wrong. What I meant was; how does she fly in the same direction the world is spinning? If she gains speed since the world spins and she flies of to the opposite direction thus covering more distance, what happens if she goes along on the same direction instead?

That would mean if she was going along with the flow, the opposite effect happens and while she's trying to fly at that direction, the earth does the same and makes her cover less distance. It's like walking upwards and escalator going downwards and vice versa.

That would mean she has 50/50 chance assuming her peak speed could make her speed enough to catch ironman depending on where they stand. See where i'm getting at?

I do now, yes. That was structurally better, heh.

Yes, I suppose you are right though. Though, she can still fly in the same direction as the Earth is spinning. Just not NEARLY as fast. With Kitty's powers comes the ability to walk on air. That's how she's able to rise out of the ground the way she does. She can still fly on her own power, just not as fast. So, she could gain speed using the Earth-phasing technique, and then use her own ability to catch Tony.

But yes, I understand what you're saying.

stormfront13
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
What? huh what do you mean force fields? She doesn't have any. Unless your count wind spinning around her body as force fields.





no...she has two types of force-fields: electrical ones and pressure domes.



when being attacked by storm and cyclops...it's going to be hard for him to avoid kitty. he's getting attacked at all sides.



no it's not...history proves that she's more than a match for him.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by stormfront13
no...she has two types of force-fields: electrical ones and pressure domes.



when being attacked by storm and cyclops...it's going to be hard for him to avoid kitty. he's getting attacked at all sides.



no it's not...history proves that she's more than a match for him.

No offense at all, stormfront (and even though you're on my side here), current Iron Man would pretty much destory Storm if they were going all out, one-on-one. I mean, Storm could do some damage, but she's not winning this fight. He's just too powerful right now, which is exactly why he needs to be ganged up on first the way you and I are describing the scenario in order for him to be taken out.

History would be right if Iron Man hadn't been upgraded over the years. But, alas, he has.

Again, no offense. Just saying.

stormfront13
Originally posted by Metalmanx
No offense at all, stormfront (and even though you're on my side here), current Iron Man would pretty much destory Storm if they were going all out, one-on-one. I mean, Storm could do some damage, but she's not winning this fight. He's just too powerful right now, which is exactly why he needs to be ganged up on first the way you and I are describing the scenario in order for him to be taken out.

History would be right if Iron Man hadn't been upgraded over the years. But, alas, he has.

Again, no offense. Just saying.

i totally know where your coming from...because i agree. i never said iron-man would win...i was arguing the point that storm would be a distraction long enough for kitty to phase through him. i honestly think that iron-man would defeat storm also...so that point we agree on. would she be able to do damage and face a challenge? yes. would she defeat him? no. sorry for the confusion.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by stormfront13
i totally know where your coming from...because i agree. i never said iron-man would win...i was arguing the point that storm would be a distraction long enough for kitty to phase through him. i honestly think that iron-man would defeat storm also...so that point we agree on. would she be able to do damage and face a challenge? yes. would she defeat him? no. sorry for the confusion.

Okay, I think there was just a failure to communicate there. I agree with you 100% with what you've said there.

stormfront13
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Okay, I think there was just a failure to communicate there. I agree with you 100% with what you've said there.

wow...we've actually agreed on something...that's a first stick out tongue

Metalmanx
Originally posted by stormfront13
wow...we've actually agreed on something...that's a first stick out tongue

Haha, I know. It really is kind of a first. Planets must be in allignment. stick out tongue

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by stormfront13
no...she has two types of force-fields: electrical ones and pressure domes.

They electrical ones don't actually count as forcefields because they can't deflect projectiles, just hitting anyone who comes near her. Can it deflect repulsor rays or bomb explosions?

Originally posted by stormfront13
when being attacked by storm and cyclops...it's going to be hard for him to avoid kitty. he's getting attacked at all sides.

So they are going to avoid spider-man, spider-woman, captain america, luke cage just concentrating on Tony? That's going to be their downfall if they do, specially considering Spider-man could knock the bejeezus out of them with one punch save Colossus.

Originally posted by stormfront13
no it's not...history proves that she's more than a match for him.

Yes, precisely history, Ironman has what? 40+ history of upgrades. Ironman post extremis is just above that. He wasn't multitasking while fighting people before, or has a healing factor openly taunting wolverine to fight him w/o armor or has that massive speed access

I know people here think the idea of superman having these ridiculous uber powerset is stupid, but the fact that he exists like that right now can't be discounted.

Sixth_Winged
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
I know people here think the idea of superman having these ridiculous uber powerset is stupid, but the fact that he exists like that right now can't be discounted.

doh sorry i meant it as Ironman laughing out loud

UniOmni
Its about time that Ironman got a bit of juice put in his tank, no homo. The guys been pretty looked down upon for a long time.

WhiteWitchKing
Iron Man needs only direct shot at Storm to kill her. Tony's arming system should aid in that. Tony's got like what sonics, repulsor rays, bombs, missles, force fields.

The fight between Spiderman and Scott is detable in my opinion. It could go either way but Spiderman edges out Cyclops (due to his experience with guys like Electro, Shocker, Sandman, Doc Ock).

Colossus beats Luke.
Wolverine edges Cap after a long fight.
Spiderwoman and Beast, not sure how this would be.
Kitty would beat Ronin.



The Avengers would take this fight 7/10. Iron Man takes this with the aid of the others. Let's not forget Iron Man's range attacks and guidance system gives him the advantage over everyone on the field. Kitty should take him out but I would not count on her getting a chance. A tactical fighter and genius like Tony would go after both attend to Kitty, Cyclops, and Storm at the get go. Even Cap and Spidey can tell you that.

One question though, how fast is Kitty when she is flying? Would Kitty be able to catch IM with his thruster boots? If not, he might just out manuver her and took out some X-Men at the same time via guidance system.

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I know I'm hilarious I don't need you to point it out. Frankly CC may be a senile old coot these days but Iron Man flying to the sun and back is just as stupid and it's not half as ridiculous as soulvision.

I agree, a i suit powered by a fusion reactor confused reaching the sun, seems a 'leap of faith' to say the least, but the Immaterial PHYSICALLY distorting the material, is a paradox.

Soul vison maybe not be as stupid as it seems, especially when concerning Mindsips and my HYPOTHESISED theories about transcending PSI consciousness and Super powers. Read the 'intelligent thread' in the Comic book forum if you want to know more.

CC is, and always has been a Coot. Even his most celebrated work (Dark Phoenix included,) is so mediocre its untrue. smile

xmarksthespot
confused No, when she's intangible she can't physically distort the tangible. She could and does however extend her intangibility to other things and people.

Any idea who wrote this...
http://img500.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav327p097zm.jpg
it takes quite a chunk of the proverbial cake with regards to "leaps of faith".

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
confused No, when she's intangible she can't physically distort the tangible. She could and does however extend her intangibility to other things and people.

Any idea who wrote this...
http://img500.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav327p097zm.jpg
it takes quite a chunk of the proverbial cake with regards to "leaps of faith".

laughing laughing

Now that is hilarious

Ed Braubcker by any chance ? smile

Soleran
Iron Man takes out Cyclops and Storm and its all over for the X-men at that point unless Kitty can pull out some miraculous victory.

If IM can throw Kitty into the first round of missiles or repulsor shots then she's out as well and the Xmen are doomed after that.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
laughing laughing

Now that is hilarious

Ed Braubcker by any chance ? smile Dunno. Am trying to find out in order to pre-emptively avoid.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Soleran
Iron Man takes out Cyclops and Storm and its all over for the X-men at that point unless Kitty can pull out some miraculous victory.

If IM can throw Kitty into the first round of missiles or repulsor shots then she's out as well and the Xmen are doomed after that.

...Err...why would Kitty sit there any take this blast of missiles and repulsor shots when she can just EASILY phase through them. I don't get why some people think she's gonna get taken out like this.

Kitty can "fly" just over 1,000 mph using the Earth's own rotational speed to pull her along. When she's not using the Earth to move, she can "fly" still but only at the same speed with which she can run on the ground, but instead she'll be running on air (which she does all the time).

She has pretty much every chance of taking out Iron Man, especially when he's first distracted with Storm and Cyclops. She goes straight for him, and BAM. He's out of the fight. Then the X-men take this, since Iron Man was the only deciding factor here.

Soleran
I can agree with that, I am saying that IM is the winning factor for the team to get rid of the energy projectors on X-men.

Also if Kitty isn't already phased IM has much faster reactions then humans and that should smash her around abit, do sonics affect her in phased form?

R.O.T. Yahman
Originally posted by Metalmanx
...Err...why would Kitty sit there any take this blast of missiles and repulsor shots when she can just EASILY phase through them. I don't get why some people think she's gonna get taken out like this.

Kitty can "fly" just over 1,000 mph using the Earth's own rotational speed to pull her along. When she's not using the Earth to move, she can "fly" still but only at the same speed with which she can run on the ground, but instead she'll be running on air (which she does all the time).

She has pretty much every chance of taking out Iron Man, especially when he's first distracted with Storm and Cyclops. She goes straight for him, and BAM. He's out of the fight. Then the X-men take this, since Iron Man was the only deciding factor here.

I agree she probably take out one suit maybe two, but as seen from the latest Avengers Annual, Tony can literally control all his suits at the time. smile

Accel
Originally posted by Metalmanx
...Err...why would Kitty sit there any take this blast of missiles and repulsor shots when she can just EASILY phase through them. I don't get why some people think she's gonna get taken out like this.

Kitty can "fly" just over 1,000 mph using the Earth's own rotational speed to pull her along. When she's not using the Earth to move, she can "fly" still but only at the same speed with which she can run on the ground, but instead she'll be running on air (which she does all the time).

She has pretty much every chance of taking out Iron Man, especially when he's first distracted with Storm and Cyclops. She goes straight for him, and BAM. He's out of the fight. Then the X-men take this, since Iron Man was the only deciding factor here.
I know Storm and Cyclops are fast, but I doubt they're fast enough to react within the few fractions of a second that it would take Tony to take them out.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
I agree she probably take out one suit maybe two, but as seen from the latest Avengers Annual, Tony can literally control all his suits at the time. smile

True, but that means you're enabling the Avengers prep time to allow Iron Man to acquire all of these suits. You don't see that as an unfair advantage at all? confused

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Accel
I know Storm and Cyclops are fast, but I doubt they're fast enough to react within the few fractions of a second that it would take Tony to take them out.

Yea, you're pretty much right. That's why I'm not arguing too much in their favor of living long, mostly talking about Shadowcat, since she's the most important piece in this battle.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Soleran
I can agree with that, I am saying that IM is the winning factor for the team to get rid of the energy projectors on X-men.

Also if Kitty isn't already phased IM has much faster reactions then humans and that should smash her around abit, do sonics affect her in phased form?

True, I can agree with that, too. Iron Man is a bit too fast for Cyke and Storm.

Kitty is pretty much always phased, especially when she's in battle. And since the two teams square off before fighting, she'll already be ready. She trained herself to be able to turn intangible within a fraction of a second. Also, it's now her natural state. She actually has to keep her tangible form by sheer force of will now.

And I don't know about the sonics thing, haven't seen any evidence to say that they would affect her.

stormfront13
wait...the teams square off before they fight? storm will definitely have her shield up then before iron-man can take her out. she's gotten her shield up before a tk attack has even hit her. storm has the common sense to put up a shield as soon as the battle starts. so i'm not saying that storm will defeat him but she's a big enough distraction for kitty to attack.

Metalmanx
Her electrical shields block TK? That doesn't make any sense. TK should still affect Storm, even inside her bubble.

I can see them blocking other stuff, but not TK, or any form of psionic attack, for that matter.

Anyway, I'm torn on the Storm subject.

stormfront13
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Her electrical shields block TK? That doesn't make any sense. TK should still affect Storm, even inside her bubble.

I can see them blocking other stuff, but not TK, or any form of psionic attack, for that matter.

Anyway, I'm torn on the Storm subject.

i can give the issue number if you want. but here's how the scene goes.


Casandra shoots out a telekinetic assault. storm raises her force-fields and the attack is deflected.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by stormfront13
i can give the issue number if you want. but here's how the scene goes.


Casandra shoots out a telekinetic assault. storm raises her force-fields and the attack is deflected.

Ah, is it a beam? Cuz that makes more sense.

nimbus006
IM has files on every member of the X-Men he'll find a way to take out Kitty while he is fighting Storm. Another thing in Astonishing X-Men Danger was able to throw a pole/ spear thing threw Colussus and Kitty, so that tells you right there that she lets her guard down at times during battle, so IM will just wait for a choatic moment while Kitty is in her tangible state and then he'll strike. Look this fight could go either way, there are many variables, but if I had to bet on it, I would not put any amount of money on Tony, Cap, and Spiderman on the same team losing.

stormfront13
Originally posted by Metalmanx
Ah, is it a beam? Cuz that makes more sense.

it was TK but it looked like a wide-range beam. her attack took up like a whole page



you can't just say "he'll find a way" that has no impact at all.




how will he be able to tell the difference between her tangible state and her intangible state?

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