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Okay, these two fight to the death... Superman fights without superspeed (like in the Justice League cartoon) and the Juggernaut fights without his force field... who wins?

Even without super speed, Superman is agile as hell. He could very well pull Juggernaut's helmet off and use T-Vo for the win.

No superspeed, and no shield,

Juggernaut 5-6/10 depending on the writer.


Superman could never dish out any physical damage to Juggernaut even without Juggernauts Shield, and his only chance is T-vo, but with even his agility it should be enough to get his helmet off a few times.

Juggernaut gets his wins because he doesn't have to much trouble grabbing or tagging agile people up close, witch is where superman needs to be to take his helmet off.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
No superspeed, and no shield,

Juggernaut 5-6/10 depending on the writer.


Superman could never dish out any physical damage to Juggernaut even without Juggernauts Shield, and his only chance is T-vo, but with even his agility it should be enough to get his helmet off a few times.

Juggernaut gets his wins because he doesn't have to much trouble grabbing or tagging agile people up close, witch is where superman needs to be to take his helmet off.

Superman still has the advantage of flight, don't forget that.

Originally posted by batdude123
Superman still has the advantage of flight, don't forget that.


How? Because of T-vo, he has to get his helmet off first. Superman not just gonna take it off, usually it takes a pretty good force to get it off. Im not saying superman couldn't get it off with one solid yank, but with no Superspeed, hes is acutally at a huge disadvantage, because he has to get close, a place where no heavy hitter wants to be when the place is Juggernaut.

hey wait, does supes get his heat vision?
juggs 6/10

Originally posted by Apolloknight
How? Because of T-vo, he has to get his helmet off first. Superman not just gonna take it off, usually it takes a pretty good force to get it off. Im not saying superman couldn't get it off with one solid yank, but with no Superspeed, hes is acutally at a huge disadvantage, because he has to get close, a place where no heavy hitter wants to be when the place is Juggernaut.

I'm saying, he still has the advantage of flight, and I've actually seen Wolverine pull off Juggernaut's helmet before.

Superman Vrs a guy that cannot go throw a solid wall in the movie obusly Juggernaut just kidding Superman wins

hand down superman. super could easliy stop juggernaut. all he would grab him throw hi into space or across ocean or sometime.

Omg. first off, in the movie Juggernaut slammed into the wall because when he got within 5 feet of that kid his powers went away. I hope you knew that.. didn't you??? So it was a normal human running full speed, head first into a wall.

Second Subsonic speeds, heat vision, flying... Current Juggs, Superman Wins. Classic jugs.. Superman can't hurt him. It would be a tie. In any case superman is in a no lose situation.

Originally posted by rotiart
Omg. first off, in the movie Juggernaut slammed into the wall because when he got within 5 feet of that kid his powers went away. I hope you knew that.. didn't you??? So it was a normal human running full speed, head first into a wall.

Second Subsonic speeds, heat vision, flying... Current Juggs, Superman Wins. Classic jugs.. Superman can't hurt him. It would be a tie. In any case superman is in a no lose situation.

Superman can find a way to take Juggs' helmet off, hell, Wolverine did it. From there, T-Vo for the win.

Originally posted by batdude123
Superman can find a way to take Juggs' helmet off, hell, Wolverine did it. From there, T-Vo for the win. Wolverine also has the backing of a team to help distract Juggs most of the time.

Superman without speed is in a loosing battle here as he won't be able to get close to Juggs he may still be agile but trying to grab a helmet yank it off is something really hard to do unless the guy is standing still or being distracted.

Supes will get the beat down of his life once Juggs gets a hold of him.

Originally posted by newjak86
Wolverine also has the backing of a team to help distract Juggs most of the time.

Superman without speed is in a loosing battle here as he won't be able to get close to Juggs he may still be agile but trying to grab a helmet yank it off is something really hard to do unless the guy is standing still or being distracted.

Supes will get the beat down of his life once Juggs gets a hold of him.


Thats what im saying, Juggernaut is not slow at all either, he pretty quick for a heavy hitter when he needs to be.

Oh and a well written Juggernaut takes down the X-men with a single sonic clap.

If Jugges gets ahold of Superman, its over with. period.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Thats what im saying, Juggernaut is not slow at all either, he pretty quick for a heavy hitter when he needs to be.

Oh and a well written Juggernaut takes down the X-men with a single sonic clap.

If Jugges gets ahold of Superman, its over with. period. Pretty much. Juggs once lept pretty much effortlessly 50 feet into the air because he wanted to hit Stranger in the face.

Without Superspeed Superman is a slower thor without the hammer and fighting ability and we all know how well Thor stands up to Juggs.

Originally posted by newjak86
Pretty much. Juggs once lept pretty much effortlessly 50 feet into the air because he wanted to hit Stranger in the face.

Without Superspeed Superman is a slower thor without the hammer and fighting ability and we all know how well Thor stands up to Juggs.

However, does Thor have the advantage of a telepathic asault???

Originally posted by batdude123
However, does Thor have the advantage of a telepathic asault??? Helmet has to come off first and what Thor lacks in Telepathic assualt he makes up for in mystical power

By the way how does Superman get Cain's Helmet off before Cain Grabs him and sqeeuzes the life out of him like he did to Thor?

Originally posted by batdude123
However, does Thor have the advantage of a telepathic asault???


But see that where your wrong, you think thats an advantage when its not, Superman has to get his Helmet off first, thats going to be a problem in itself, and if you think Juggs is just gonna stand there and let him then you got some major issues, On top of that, Juggernaut, with common knowledge of superman, knows he has T-vo and that he will be going for his helmet. Think about it.

Superman has to get close to him, nobody wants to be close to the Juggernaut, Thor needed odins help to escape his grip, Juggernaut is the Same Guy that Downs Thing in 2 or 3 punches. Whips the floor with the X-men in one panel, punched Stranger in the nose, and so much more.

Even with all this, this fight is still 50/50, because supes does have flight, and he is still fairly agile and I do believe he could get his helmet off a few times.

Originally posted by newjak86
Helmet has to come off first and what Thor lacks in Telepathic assualt he makes up for in mystical power

By the way how does Superman get Cain's Helmet off before Cain Grabs him and sqeeuzes the life out of him like he did to Thor?

Unless Juggernaut actually is running for him in which case Superman probably couldn't stop him, then he's not going to "overpower" Superman. Juggernaut's strength level isn't what Superman's is, his durability is off the charts though, and he is unstoppable when gaining forward momentum. It's not that big of a stretch to consider the fact that Superman can get Juggernaut's helmet off. He still does have the advantage of flight. Besides, "no superspeed" is kind of a loose term to use. Under the speed of an airplane??? Under the speed of sound??? When was the last time a PERSON could fly at superHUMAN speeds??? However, once he has his helmet off of him, it's T-Vo time. Ask Dominus what he thought of T-Vo, he didn't seem to like it too much.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
But see that where your wrong, you think thats an advantage when its not, Superman has to get his Helmet off first, thats going to be a problem in itself, and if you think Juggs is just gonna stand there and let him then you got some major issues, On top of that, Juggernaut, with common knowledge of superman, knows he has T-vo and that he will be going for his helmet. Think about it.

Superman has to get close to him, nobody wants to be close to the Juggernaut, Thor needed odins help to escape his grip, Juggernaut is the Same Guy that Downs Thing in 2 or 3 punches. Whips the floor with the X-men in one panel, punched Stranger in the nose, and so much more.

Even with all this, this fight is still 50/50, because supes does have flight, and he is still fairly agile and I do believe he could get his helmet off a few times.

No, it's really not common knowledge that he has T-Vo. He rarely uses it, it's one of his more exotic powers.

Originally posted by batdude123
No, it's really not common knowledge that he has T-Vo. He rarely uses it, it's one of his more exotic powers. he does have knowledge of him, and if hee rarely uses t-vo, why would he use it in this fight.

Originally posted by batdude123
No, it's really not common knowledge that he has T-Vo. He rarely uses it, it's one of his more exotic powers.


Well then define common knowledge, alot of people don't understand that Juggernaut cant be hurt physically no matter what, Superman might just try the "old fashioned way" and get killed.........again.

Originally posted by bigbran
he does have knowledge of him, and if hee rarely uses t-vo, why would he use it in this fight.

*sigh* Because he is polling all of his might (save superspeed), and using whatever means necesarry in order to get the job done. Superman is fighting to the best of his ability. Btw, the other people get BASIC knowledge, it's not like "here's a list of the other person's powers, now go get 'em!!!"

Originally posted by batdude123
Unless Juggernaut actually is running for him in which case Superman probably couldn't stop him, then he's not going to "overpower" Superman. Juggernaut's strength level isn't what Superman's is, his durability is off the charts though, and he is unstoppable when gaining forward momentum. It's not that big of a stretch to consider the fact that Superman can get Juggernaut's helmet off. He still does have the advantage of flight. Besides, "no superspeed" is kind of a loose term to use. Under the speed of an airplane??? Under the speed of sound??? When was the last time a PERSON could fly at superHUMAN speeds??? However, once he has his helmet off of him, it's T-Vo time. Ask Dominus what he thought of T-Vo, he didn't seem to like it too much. Actually in a fight with thor cain once tried to pick up Thor's Hammer and even though he couldn't he was vexed because he said so himself he was AT LEAST as strong as Thor meaning he actually thought he was probably stronger but at the least was equal and Superman isn't leaps and bound above Thor.

Plus everytime thor seems to go H2H with Juggs he can't beat him and is often thrown around Supes would pretty much be the same. And by no Spuerspeed it probably means that he would have the normal human speed of someone pretty athletic which would actually put him below Thor in Speed. Supes has flight but to beat him he has to get close still and Juggs would tear him a new one if he did. Not saying Supes can't win but the fact is Supes has to remove a helmet then use T-Vo and all Juggs has to do is get a hand on him.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Well then define common knowledge, alot of people don't understand that Juggernaut cant be hurt physically no matter what, Superman might just try the "old fashioned way" and get killed.........again.

From forum rules:

Basic knowledge

Each side receives basic knowledge of the other. A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows. For example, that Superman has a weakness to Kryptonite is general knowledge, but that he's Clark Kent is not.

Originally posted by newjak86
Actually in a fight with thor cain once tried to pick up Thor's Hammer and even though he couldn't he was vexed because he said so himself he was AT LEAST as strong as Thor meaning he actually thought he was probably stronger but at the least was equal and Superman isn't leaps and bound above Thor.

Plus everytime thor seems to go H2H with Juggs he can't beat him and is often thrown around Supes would pretty much be the same. And by no Spuerspeed it probably means that he would have the normal human speed of someone pretty athletic which would actually put him below Thor in Speed. Supes has flight but to beat him he has to get close still and Juggs would tear him a new one if he did. Not saying Supes can't win but the fact is Supes has to remove a helmet then use T-Vo and all Juggs has to do is get a hand on him.

Good post, I'm not arguing here. However, I think Superman can possibly remove his helmet 6/10. The other four times he would get caught by Jugg head.

Btw, Superman isn't LEAPS AND BOUNDS above Thor in terms of strength, but he is above him.

Originally posted by batdude123
Good post, I'm not arguing here. However, I think Superman can possibly remove his helmet 6/10. The other four times he would get caught by Jugg head.

Btw, Superman isn't LEAPS AND BOUNDS above Thor in terms of strength, but he is above him. I'm thinking it will be harder for Supes to get Jugg's helmet off then it will be for Juggs to get a hold of him. Because to yank the helmet off he is going to have to grab it and yank all Juggs has to do is grab.

And beileve it or not there are feats that put him in Supes level of strength and possibly equal. Like removing the midgard Serpent from Earth.

Originally posted by newjak86
I'm thinking it will be harder for Supes to get Jugg's helmet off then it will be for Juggs to get a hold of him. Because to yank the helmet off he is going to have to grab it and yank all Juggs has to do is grab.

And beileve it or not there are feats that put him in Supes level of strength and possibly equal. Like removing the midgard Serpent from Earth.

And Juggernaut grabbed a Thor would didnt have enough strength to escape his grip.

That speaks of Juggernauts Strength right There.

Originally posted by newjak86
I'm thinking it will be harder for Supes to get Jugg's helmet off then it will be for Juggs to get a hold of him. Because to yank the helmet off he is going to have to grab it and yank all Juggs has to do is grab.

And beileve it or not there are feats that put him in Supes level of strength and possibly equal. Like removing the midgard Serpent from Earth.

Possibly, but I figure, if Wolverine can actually remove the helmet, than Superman can too with the littlest of efforts. Superman could freeze parts of Juggernaut, and that would at least hold him for the duration it takes for him to remove the helmet. However, does Superman still have the intangibility trick (probably not considering his speed is gone)?

I would reply with another Superman feat, however I really REALLY don't want to turn this into another Superman vs. Thor thread.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
And Juggernaut grabbed a Thor would didnt have enough strength to escape his grip.

That speaks of Juggernauts Strength right There.

In terms of strength, Superman>Thor.

Originally posted by batdude123
Possibly, but I figure, if Wolverine can actually remove the helmet, than Superman can too with the littlest of efforts. Superman could freeze parts of Juggernaut, and that would at least hold him for the duration it takes for him to remove the helmet. However, does Superman still have the intangibility trick (probably not considering his speed is gone)?

I would reply with another Superman feat, however I really REALLY don't want to turn this into another Superman vs. Thor thread. That isn't the question the question is will Juggs let him remove the helmet even with flight advantage. I think he will have a harder time then Wolverine because Juggs won't be distracted by other people so his full attention will be on Supes.

Supeman is possibly stronger then Thor but not by much. Let's just say if they got into an arm wrestling match it would take along time for supes to put Thor down a long time.

Originally posted by newjak86
That isn't the question the question is will Juggs let him remove the helmet even with flight advantage. I think he will have a harder time then Wolverine because Juggs won't be distracted by other people so his full attention will be on Supes.

Supeman is possibly stronger then Thor but not by much. Let's just say if they got into an arm wrestling match it would take along time for supes to put Thor down a long time.

However, Superman could still keep him in place with his ice breath. That would keep him in check for AT THE MOST a few seconds. That's really all Superman would need to pull the helmet off.

I have no qualms about that. It would take Superman quite awhile to put Thor down in an arm wrestling contest.

Originally posted by batdude123
However, Superman could still keep him in place with his ice breath. That would keep him in check for AT THE MOST a few seconds. That's really all Superman would need to pull the helmet off.

I have no qualms about that. It would take Superman quite awhile to put Thor down in an arm wrestling contest. Iceman has tried similar things but to no effect Juggs truely is a physical beast with few people who can even hope to go toe to toe with him. And seconds is longer than you think when Supes is now at peak human speed.

And to end the Thor thing everyone pretty much agrees that eitehr he is Supes equal or a little below that being said though Juggs is stronger than thor and probably alot more then Supes.
Edit: Just reread my statement I'm not saying Juggs is alot stronger than Supes I'm saying he seems to be stronger than Thor than what supes would be to Thor.

Originally posted by newjak86
Iceman has tried similar things but to no effect Juggs truely is a physical beast with few people who can even hope to go toe to toe with him. And seconds is longer than you think when Supes is now at peak human speed.

And to end the Thor thing everyone pretty much agrees that eitehr he is Supes equal or a little below that being said though Juggs is stronger than thor and probably alot more then Supes.

Yes. He has contained WW in his ice breath for a bit, he could hope to contain Juggs like I said AT THE MOST a few seconds. Yeah, a few seconds is enough considering Wolvie did it.

Debatable. In terms of pure strength, Superman is top of the class, no question about that one. Strength: Superman=Juggernaut(maybe SLIGHTLY in Superman's favor)>Thor; Durability: Juggernaut>Superman>Thor

Originally posted by batdude123
Yes. He has contained WW in his ice breath for a bit, he could hope to contain Juggs like I said AT THE MOST a few seconds. Yeah, a few seconds is enough considering Wolvie did it.

Debatable. In terms of pure strength, Superman is top of the class, no question about that one. Strength: Superman=Juggernaut(maybe SLIGHTLY in Superman's favor)>Thor; Durability: Juggernaut>Superman>Thor But WW is no Juggs and probably isn't comparable seeing as Jugg's being would suffer no ill effects from the Ice Breath like WW would. As soon as Supes stops blowing Juggs would bust out then, if the ice breath stopped him at all.

I think your strength analogy is correct.

Originally posted by newjak86
But WW is no Juggs and probably isn't comparable seeing as Jugg's being would suffer no ill effects from the Ice Breath like WW would. As soon as Supes stops blowing Juggs would bust out then, if the ice breath stopped him at all.

I think your strength analogy is correct.

Possibly, but can you at least buy that it would pose as a distraction?

Thanks.

Originally posted by batdude123
Possibly, but can you at least buy that it would pose as a distraction?

Thanks. Possibly but without Superspeed to take advantage of it I don't see what the point would be we haven't even gotten into the idea if Juggs has forward momentum Supes is pretty much toast either way.

Originally posted by newjak86
Possibly but without Superspeed to take advantage of it I don't see what the point would be we haven't even gotten into the idea if Juggs has forward momentum Supes is pretty much toast either way.

Forward momentum, yes. However, that really is nulled by the fact that Superman has the advantage of flight. Btw, is his flight speed limited to around something like 30mph? Besides, he could distract him with a barrage of heat vision and ice breath. Not saying it would hurt him, just be a distraction while he takes off his helmet. Btw, who's to say that Superman used a full ice blow on WW?? ( ) He can freeze entire oceans with his ice breath.

Originally posted by batdude123
Forward momentum, yes. However, that really is nulled by the fact that Superman has the advantage of flight. Btw, is his flight speed limited to around something like 30mph? Besides, he could distract him with a barrage of heat vision and ice breath. Not saying it would hurt him, just be a distraction while he takes off his helmet. Btw, who's to say that Superman used a full ice blow on WW?? ( ) He can freeze entire oceans with his ice breath. I don't see where the area of effect would change it could be as cols as Supes would want it won't effect Juggs

Flight is an advantage so long as flight mixed with something can put the oppenent down, point is no matter what Supes has to get close to fight Juggs if he wants to beat him. And he has to remove his helmet so instead of trying to come up with a million different scenarios of supes doing the same thing for a win let us realize that all Juggs has to do for a win is get a hold of Supes and beat the snot out of him. Yes Supes can win but it will take a lot of what if compared to Juggs getting his hands on him and in this match so bad for Supes in order to win he has to take Cain on at what he does best.

Originally posted by batdude123
However, Superman could still keep him in place with his ice breath. That would keep him in check for AT THE MOST a few seconds. That's really all Superman would need to pull the helmet off.

I have no qualms about that. It would take Superman quite awhile to put Thor down in an arm wrestling contest. superman cant freeze like ice man.

Originally posted by bigbran
superman cant freeze like ice man.

Well obviously not HOM Iceman, but I don't think it's a stretch to compare the potency of his ice breath to retarded Iceman of before HOM.

Originally posted by newjak86
I don't see where the area of effect would change it could be as cols as Supes would want it won't effect Juggs

Flight is an advantage so long as flight mixed with something can put the oppenent down, point is no matter what Supes has to get close to fight Juggs if he wants to beat him. And he has to remove his helmet so instead of trying to come up with a million different scenarios of supes doing the same thing for a win let us realize that all Juggs has to do for a win is get a hold of Supes and beat the snot out of him. Yes Supes can win but it will take a lot of what if compared to Juggs getting his hands on him and in this match so bad for Supes in order to win he has to take Cain on at what he does best.

He could flash freeze him. I'm not saying that it would physically hurt him, just limit his motions for a bit in order for him to grab the helmet off his head. DAMNIT this is really testing my patience. I just want to say SPEEDBLITZ so bad right now!!!! furious

Originally posted by batdude123
He could flash freeze him. I'm not saying that it would physically hurt him, just limit his motions for a bit in order for him to grab the helmet off his head. DAMNIT this is really testing my patience. I just want to say SPEEDBLITZ so bad right now!!!! furious His body won't feel the effects of freezing is the point. Supes can blow his breath as hard as he wants the point is as soon as he stops so does anything it would do against Juggs just like what Iceman does. even still if he is walking forward the attack should have no effect on him at all.

I know what you I just want to say Jugg's shield is up.

Originally posted by newjak86
His body won't feel the effects of freezing is the point. Supes can blow his breath as hard as he wants the point is as soon as he stops so does anything it would do against Juggs just like what Iceman does. even still if he is walking forward the attack should have no effect on him at all.

I know what you I just want to say Jugg's shield is up.

Well, then is smells like poop for both of us. However, the agility of Superman is great. I see him being able to take his cap off 4-5/10 (I was overzealous before with the 6/10).

Originally posted by batdude123
Well, then is smells like poop for both of us. However, the agility of Superman is great. I see him being able to take his cap off 4-5/10 (I was overzealous before with the 6/10). Yeah.

That sounds about right

yeah right supes will fight h2h, and get crushed!!!!

All i have to say in this thread..............is that i hate T-vo with an unholy passion, and would beat up the guy who created it. As well as the guy who decided it would be incharacter for Superman to have played football in highschool.

As much as I want to say it would be a tie, I know that Superman would always find a way to win, therefore he would win even without super speed. Superman has fought really strong guys before and won without using super speed. Superman is considered the father of superhero comic books and is always going to be favored to win no matter what, unless you take away the majority of his abilities.

yea which negates that its superman

Originally posted by gflash
As much as I want to say it would be a tie, I know that Superman would always find a way to win, therefore he would win even without super speed. Superman has fought really strong guys before and won without using super speed. Superman is considered the father of superhero comic books and is always going to be favored to win no matter what, unless you take away the majority of his abilities.


"Superman wold find a way to win"

"Superman has fought really strong guys before"

"Superman will always be favored to win"


First off, the first comment doesn't belong in this forum, watch yourself because you will get ate up for that.

Second, You must not know who the Juggernaut is? He just not some really strong guy, he makes 99% of "really" strong guys look like pre-schoolers. I suggest you check out the Juggernaut Respect Thread, and think about his classic powers before you call him just another "Really Strong Guy".

Third, that also doesn't belong here, I wont bother going into specifics with you, just go check out the forum rules.

Have a good day.

that bullshit above this aside, i don't care about them sayings on here, that doesn't hold any weight, superman has always been rated above juggernaught in strength, no matter how you look about it, taking his speed away just slows down the inedible ending - superman wins hands down

hmm, and how is supes stronger than juggs, pretell???
and what is this incredible ending? where he finnally manages to get his helmut off, and then juggs wins 7/10 or maybe 6/10.

Originally posted by MattDay
that bullshit above this aside, i don't care about them sayings on here, that doesn't hold any weight, superman has always been rated above juggernaught in strength, no matter how you look about it, taking his speed away just slows down the inedible ending - superman wins hands down


Your not so smart, how is Supermans Strength, gonna help him hmm? You also must not know classic Juggs? And since when has Juggernaut Always been below superman in strength, in you own mind maybe?

Well in you own mind you can have superman winning this all you like, but the fact is, Superman gets beat 5-6/10 against an unstoppable, Juggernaut, whose strength level just happens to be, "Incalculable".

Originally posted by newjak86
Iceman has tried similar things but to no effect Juggs truely is a physical beast with few people who can even hope to go toe to toe with him. And seconds is longer than you think when Supes is now at peak human speed.


Not really , Captain America is peak human and he's ran a mile in a minuite (i think)

but caps not a peak human really, just on the juice.

Originally posted by bigbran
but caps not a peak human really, just on the juice.

The 'juice' as you put it placed him at peak human.

juggs would crush supes, its not like hes hulk or anything. nobody knows how strong juggs is, but we do know his minimun is thors level, and his max, could be anything really.
not everybody lifts things all the time like supes, to have strength feats, hell, tyrant doesnt have any strength feats, are we going to put him as weaker than superman?!?!?!?!
if supes can do more than odin, then by all means, hes stronger than juggs. strange could do shit all to juggs, and we all know how ****ing tough strange is. hell the guy withstood a godblast to no effect, supes gets hit by the hammer and screams in anguish.
h2h hand is definately not an option for supes, and with his massive speed reduction, a speed blitz is not an option either.
and supes is just going to be hit by juggs, but still manage to pull his helmut off??!?!?!
hmm, ice breath would work right, wrong!!! first of all, if it could blow juggs back, and if it could actully freez him w/o juggs fighting back. you really think juggs is going to stand there for a min while he gets blown( ) and frozen.(well maybe) hmm and if juggs is moving, NO EFFECT!!!
and another point, if juggs is moving, do you really think supes is going to fly away, no hell try and stopp juggs, and when he realizes its futile, it will be too late!!!
strength- in feats - supes, ya def, in feats supes is a beast, hell hes got the most feats out of anyone.
in reality- prob juggs, hell there is nothing he cant move when he gets mad.
duribilty- completely one sided in juggs favor, when supes gets all his skin melted off, full blasts from thor, shots from odin, massive hits by hulk, full blasts by cyke....etc all to absolutely, no ABSOLUTELY no effect, give me a ring, otherwise deal with it!!!
hmm will flying be an issue... maybe, but it will be a standstill then, or juggs could throw stuff at him, sure supes can use his ice breath and heat vision, or no juggs can jump, wrong idea to fly supes...
heat vision.. hmm, no effect, sure he can move juggs....if he was standing still!!! hell the only effect this will do is to help take off the helmut... if supes is smart enough to do so!!!
bfr- when supes gets desperate, but how will he grab him and do this w/o superspeed. hell thor had to resort to this to juggs, but one prob, thor used his hammer to teleport juggs... one thing supes doesnt have...
agility- no prob, juggs doesnt excactly have the slowest reflexes, he could catch him, of couse.
and of course t-vo- when supes finnaly plays it smart, uses all his powers to get the helmut off, ya supes will get it, but it wont be easy.
stamina- hell if it cums to it, juggs can easily out last supes....

so with all of supes powers, i can see him gets 2 or 3 wins.

Juggernaut is much weaker than Superman, also slower. Yes, even without super speed, Superman is faster. Also, Juggernaut can still feel pain(as evidenced by the fact that D'spayre(SP?) poured liquid metal on him, which "actually hurt" . I'm figuring that his heat vision can do the same to him, which, while Juggernaut is still indestructble, would definitely make this fight a living hell for him. Juggernaut, on the other hand, is not nearly strong enough to overcome Superman's aura. So he would be a punching bag until the fights ends because of some external factor.

when you put juggernaught against superman, you automatically think he aint no match superman... trying to get detailed just slowly goes back to that first idea... dont feel bad, superman is one hard opponent to be vs. with

hey wtf is T-vo

Juggernaut must have the first forcefield. That is what makes him the Juggernaut.

I suppose you meant the one he can charge up the second one.

Than Juggernaut can beat Supes. Since Juggernaut cannot be beaten physically...And being unstoppable is huge advantage.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Juggernaut is much weaker than Superman, also slower. Yes, even without super speed, Superman is faster. Also, Juggernaut can still feel pain(as evidenced by the fact that D'spayre(SP?) poured liquid metal on him, which "actually hurt" . I'm figuring that his heat vision can do the same to him, which, while Juggernaut is still indestructble, would definitely make this fight a living hell for him. Juggernaut, on the other hand, is not nearly strong enough to overcome Superman's aura. So he would be a punching bag until the fights ends because of some external factor. Juggy got normal speed. Juggy got healing factor too. Juggernaut can only feel pain due magic but he can overcome the pain due to his mystical powers.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Juggy got normal speed. Juggy got healing factor too. Juggernaut can only feel pain due magic but he can overcome the pain due to his mystical powers.

Liquid metal = not magic.

I'm not saying Superman can injure him, ofcourse. But he's a weakling compared to Supes. And he's also FAR from unstoppable.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Liquid metal = not magic.

I'm not saying Superman can injure him, ofcourse. But he's a weakling compared to Supes. And he's also FAR from unstoppable.

Originally posted by bigbran
juggs would crush supes, its not like hes hulk or anything. nobody knows how strong juggs is, but we do know his minimun is thors level, and his max, could be anything really.
not everybody lifts things all the time like supes, to have strength feats, hell, tyrant doesnt have any strength feats, are we going to put him as weaker than superman?!?!?!?!
if supes can do more than odin, then by all means, hes stronger than juggs. strange could do shit all to juggs, and we all know how ****ing tough strange is. hell the guy withstood a godblast to no effect, supes gets hit by the hammer and screams in anguish.
h2h hand is definately not an option for supes, and with his massive speed reduction, a speed blitz is not an option either.
and supes is just going to be hit by juggs, but still manage to pull his helmut off??!?!?!
hmm, ice breath would work right, wrong!!! first of all, if it could blow juggs back, and if it could actully freez him w/o juggs fighting back. you really think juggs is going to stand there for a min while he gets blown( ) and frozen.(well maybe) hmm and if juggs is moving, NO EFFECT!!!
and another point, if juggs is moving, do you really think supes is going to fly away, no hell try and stopp juggs, and when he realizes its futile, it will be too late!!!
strength- in feats - supes, ya def, in feats supes is a beast, hell hes got the most feats out of anyone.
in reality- prob juggs, hell there is nothing he cant move when he gets mad.
duribilty- completely one sided in juggs favor, when supes gets all his skin melted off, full blasts from thor, shots from odin, massive hits by hulk, full blasts by cyke....etc all to absolutely, no ABSOLUTELY no effect, give me a ring, otherwise deal with it!!!
hmm will flying be an issue... maybe, but it will be a standstill then, or juggs could throw stuff at him, sure supes can use his ice breath and heat vision, or no juggs can jump, wrong idea to fly supes...
heat vision.. hmm, no effect, sure he can move juggs....if he was standing still!!! hell the only effect this will do is to help take off the helmut... if supes is smart enough to do so!!!
bfr- when supes gets desperate, but how will he grab him and do this w/o superspeed. hell thor had to resort to this to juggs, but one prob, thor used his hammer to teleport juggs... one thing supes doesnt have...
agility- no prob, juggs doesnt excactly have the slowest reflexes, he could catch him, of couse.
and of course t-vo- when supes finnaly plays it smart, uses all his powers to get the helmut off, ya supes will get it, but it wont be easy.
stamina- hell if it cums to it, juggs can easily out last supes....

so with all of supes powers, i can see him gets 2 or 3 wins. read you sobs, and dinaflos(or whatever) arent you a hulk fan??
anyway, so everybody has to lift something to be strong!!!
oo liquid metal, even though he got all his skin melted off, w/o even a grunt, your reaching.
ooo heat vision is much worse than a godblast, or odin.
this battle went from t-vo to superman can hurt juggs!?!?!?!?! god you must hate juggs!!
anyway his only hope is t-vo and bfr, make sence.

Originally posted by bigbran
read you sobs, and dinaflos(or whatever) arent you a hulk fan??
anyway, so everybody has to lift something to be strong!!!
oo liquid metal, even though he got all his skin melted off, w/o even a grunt, your reaching.
ooo heat vision is much worse than a godblast, or odin.
this battle went from t-vo to superman can hurt juggs!?!?!?!?! god you must hate juggs!!
anyway his only hope is t-vo and bfr, make sence.

Well, why don't you start writing coherently? It might get people to read your posts for once.

And no, I don't hate Juggs. I'm just trying to reflect your own "debating" techniques.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Well, why don't you start writing coherently? It might get people to read your posts for once.

And no, I don't hate Juggs. I'm just trying to reflect your own "debating" techniques.

Originally posted by Apolloknight


Hello.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Well, why don't you start writing coherently? It might get people to read your posts for once.

And no, I don't hate Juggs. I'm just trying to reflect your own "debating" techniques. just because you dont want to read them, its not my fault.
ok what is supes going to do, besides bfr, and t-vo?

Originally posted by bigbran
just because you dont want to read them, its not my fault.
ok what is supes going to do, besides bfr, and t-vo?

He's not going to take him down, just pummel him.....Until Cyttorak becomes so bored with Juggy's performance that he decides to take away all his power

Originally posted by Dinalfos
He's not going to take him down, just pummel him.....Until Cyttorak becomes so bored with Juggy's performance that he decides to take away all his power

Originally posted by Apolloknight


http://freak666.uw.hu/kepek/strucc.jpg

Originally posted by Dinalfos
http://freak666.uw.hu/kepek/strucc.jpg



Get Dalak here, I would rather debate with him, at least he makes logical points instead of spewing hate all over Juggernaut Threads.



Grow up son, Juggernauts just a comic book character.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Get Dalak here, I would rather debate with him, at least he makes logical points instead of spewing hate all over Juggernaut Threads.



Grow up son, Juggernauts just a comic book character.

Why don't you say this to Soujaboy? He's the biggest spiter on the whole board.

Anyway, you still can't seem to read. I said it was very well possible that if liquid steel pains him, Superman's eye laser might hurt too. I never said anything about defeat. Anyway, you of all people should be very fond of presenting theory as fact, because that's all you ever do. I don't hate Juggernaut. Hating a comic book character because of fanboy ignorance is quite pathetic.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
But see that where your wrong, you think thats an advantage when its not, Superman has to get his Helmet off first, thats going to be a problem in itself, and if you think Juggs is just gonna stand there and let him then you got some major issues, On top of that, Juggernaut, with common knowledge of superman, knows he has T-vo and that he will be going for his helmet. Think about it.

Superman has to get close to him, nobody wants to be close to the Juggernaut, Thor needed odins help to escape his grip, Juggernaut is the Same Guy that Downs Thing in 2 or 3 punches. Wipes the floor with the X-men in one panel, punched Stranger in the nose, and so much more.

Even with all this, this fight is still 50/50, because supes does have flight, and he is still fairly agile and I do believe he could get his helmet off a few times.



You see, this is how you debate, stop attacking other people on this board for no reason. Do you have some personal issues against me and Souja because we debate with logic?

Remember how I said if Juggernaut where to lose, he would lose, Take a look at my post again, I least I don't go around Screaming "Hulk is the strongest one there is, he can heal from anything!!!!111!" without proof, it took ya boy Dalak to provide that, state his claims as to why he could, and you know what, It made sense when he said it, so i had no choice but to agree that hulk should be able to heal from nearly anything, even if Thor>>>Hulk.

I could go back and quote your last few post on this Thread that Scream Juggernaut hate, but I wont, your a big boy and you know what you said.

So I will say again, stop spewing your juggernaut hate on these boards, and you may become a decent debater.

odin cant hurt juggs, but metal can, your evidence means nothing.

Originally posted by bigbran
odin cant hurt juggs, but metal can, your evidence means nothing.


Thats the thing, It DIDNT hurt him..........

Originally posted by Apolloknight
You see, this is how you debate, stop attacking other people on this board for no reason. Do you have some personal issues against me and Souja because we debate with logic?

Remember how I said if Juggernaut where to lose, he would lose, Take a look at my post again, I least I don't go around Screaming "Hulk is the strongest one there is, he can heal from anything!!!!111!" without proof, it took ya boy Dalak to provide that, state his claims as to why he could, and you know what, It made sense when he said it, so i had no choice but to agree that hulk should be able to heal from nearly anything, even if Thor>>>Hulk.

I could go back and quote your last few post on this Thread that Scream Juggernaut hate, but I wont, your a big boy and you know what you said.

So I will say again, stop spewing your juggernaut hate on these boards, and you may become a decent debater.

Please. Stop trying to spin this. You know full well that you and Soujaboy have been very petty. But the funny thing is, eventhough I don't have a scanner, I was right about everything I said. I've been saying the exact same things as Dalak. And hell, you even refused to accept the scans I DID post. You either "read over" them or ignored them purposely so that you could distort my opinions some more. It's pathetic.

I know you're a Juggernaut fan, but stay reasonable.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Thats the thing, It DIDNT hurt him..........

It did pain him.

Originally posted by bigbran
odin cant hurt juggs, but metal can, your evidence means nothing.

So now, we're going by the high showings? Hypocrite.

so its called pis, when odin, godblasts, skin melted off, couldnt??!?!?!?

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Please. Stop trying to spin this. You know full well that you and Soujaboy have been very petty. But the funny thing is, eventhough I don't have a scanner, I was right about everything I said. I've been saying the exact same things as Dalak. And hell, you even refused to accept the scans I DID post. You either "read over" them or ignored them purposely so that you could distort my opinions some more. It's pathetic.

I know you're a Juggernaut fan, but stay reasonable.


Whatever son, I stayed away from the Hulk threads for this reason, I wont go back down that path.

Anyway, Superman vs. Juggernaut (No Superspeed and No Shield)

State your opinion.

Originally posted by bigbran
superman cant freeze like ice man.

You are right. Superman (post crisis) has frozen an entire planet instantly.
Juggs won't be a problem.

he will if hes moving.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
You are right. Superman (post crisis) has frozen an entire planet instantly.


Cool ... When did this happen ?

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Whatever son, I stayed away from the Hulk threads for this reason, I wont go back down that path.

Anyway, Superman vs. Juggernaut (No Superspeed and No Shield)

State your opinion.

You know what, I've been staying away from hostile threads as well. I'm still in the Hulk threads, but no longer to really debate, but just to give my opinion on the battle.

I believe Superman is, say, slightly stronger than regular classic Juggernaut(35% power), on a very bad day. And much stronger on a good day. However, since the Juggernaut is virtually invurnerable, Superman isn't going to harm him. But since Superman's superior speed(non-super), strength and agility(can Juggernaut actually leap?) can move the Juggernaut without the momentum stealing force shield hindering him, I say the actual fight goes to supes, TKO wise. Also because Juggernaut is going to need a lot of power to break through Superman's aura. And then there's also the heat vision. Who knows what would happen if Superman didn't hold back? Would it kill him? No. Would it pain him? That may be.

Now, since the topic started didn't say anything about sunlight, I'm assuming this doesn't take place in an "adamantium cage" or something stupid. That means supes can continuously charge himself. Now, without Superspeed, Supes is less likely to remove his helmet, but I'm sure he can succeed at least a couple of times. So my guess is that Supes wins a slight majority, loses once or twice and stalemates the rest of the time.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Whatever son, I stayed away from the Hulk threads for this reason, I wont go back down that path.

Anyway, Superman vs. Juggernaut (No Superspeed and No Shield)

State your opinion.


Lifting feats wise, Juggernaut has yet to prove he's on the same level as Namor .... let alone Thor, Hulk, Hercules. And with the exception of Hulk, none of these are as strong as Supes Currently.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
You know what, I've been staying away from hostile threads as well. I'm still in the Hulk threads, but no longer to really debate, but just to give my opinion on the battle.

I believe Superman is, say, slightly stronger than regular classic Juggernaut(35% power), on a very bad day. And much stronger on a good day. when does supes ever have a bad day!?!!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????!!?!?!!??!

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Cool ... When did this happen ?

When cannibal planet was devouring the sun. Superman flew up to it and froze its insides.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
You know what, I've been staying away from hostile threads as well. I'm still in the Hulk threads, but no longer to really debate, but just to give my opinion on the battle.

I believe Superman is, say, slightly stronger than regular classic Juggernaut(35% power), on a very bad day. And much stronger on a good day. However, since the Juggernaut is virtually invurnerable, Superman isn't going to harm him. But since Superman's superior speed(non-super), strength and agility(can Juggernaut actually leap?) can move the Juggernaut without the momentum stealing force shield hindering him, I say the actual fight goes to supes, TKO wise. Also because Juggernaut is going to need a lot of power to break through Superman's aura. And then there's also the heat vision. Who knows what would happen if Superman didn't hold back? Would it kill him? No. Would it pain him? That may be.

OK I'm going to be opened minded about this, because you seem, quite reasonable .... How much do you think Juggernaut can lift ?

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Now, since the topic started didn't say anything about sunlight, I'm assuming this doesn't take place in an "adamantium cage" or something stupid. That means supes can continuously charge himself. Now, without Superspeed, Supes is less likely to remove his helmet, but I'm sure he can succeed at least a couple of times. So my guess is that Supes wins a slight majority, loses once or twice and stalemates the rest of the time.

How durable do you think Juggernaut is ... Are you aware that Thor and Colossus have caused him physical harm, when he has been without his shield ?

Originally posted by bigbran
when does supes ever have a bad day!?!!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????!!?!?!!??!

Figure - speach.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
OK I'm going to be opened minded about this, because you seem, quite reasonable .... How much do you think Juggernaut can lift ?

A lot. But depending on the superman we're talking about, it's not nearly enough. Superman is designed in such a way(well, pre-crisis anyway) that he can accomplish every strength feat. A bit like Hulk, but with less nuance.




Oh Juggernaut is extremely durable with the forece shield on. Without it, not so much, but he still has an insane resistance to injury. But yes, he's been injured(albeit rather briefly) and even knocked out with physical force(Onslaught).

Can you show me some scans?

it is not the force field that makes him invulnerable

Leaping 50ft to KO stranger

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6230569


Strength, Holding Thor, a Thor who lifted the Midgard Serpent

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4018/8thdaythor67sj.jpg

Originally posted by Dinalfos
A lot. But depending on the superman we're talking about, it's not nearly enough. Superman is designed in such a way(well, pre-crisis anyway) that he can accomplish every strength feat. A bit like Hulk, but with less nuance.




Oh Juggernaut is extremely durable with the forece shield on. Without it, not so much, but he still has an insane resistance to injury. But yes, he's been injured(albeit rather briefly) and even knocked out with physical force(Onslaught).

Can you show me some scans?

He is just as invulnerable with or without his forcefield, His force field is just for when he doesn't want anybody to touch him, IE, if he were fighting, Wolverine and Psylock, he would put his forcefield up to remove the chance of them taking off his helmet.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
He is just as invulnerable with or without his forcefield, His force field is just for when he doesn't want anybody to touch him, IE, if he were fighting, Wolverine and Psylock, he would put his forcefield up to remove the chance of them taking off his helmet.

Then explain the Colossus and Thor ocurrences(I'd still like to see some scans)?

Also, doesn't the forceshield what causes his semi-unstoppability?

yes collosus, why dont you show it if you want it so bad!!! and, are you saying, that collosus is over odin? and i dont ever remember thor hurting him. its called pis.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Then explain the Colossus and Thor ocurrences(I'd still like to see some scans)?

Also, doesn't the forceshield what causes his semi-unstoppability?

I did post some scans, a leaping one, and him taking a shot for Thors hammer, and shrugging it off like it was nothing. without his shield.

And No, juggernaut is unstoppable because the gem makes him so, his shield has nothing to do with in durability or his not being stopped.

Nothing has completely stopped Juggernaut, besides the PIS of onslaught and Celestial Tech.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
I did post some scans, a leaping one, and him taking a shot for Thors hammer, and shrugging it off like it was nothing. without his shield.

And No, juggernaut is unstoppable because the gem makes him so, his shield has nothing to do with in durability or his not being stopped.

Nothing has completely stopped Juggernaut, besides the PIS of onslaught and Celestial Tech.

The Character Ownage thread has some pics of a stopped Juggernaut. But yes, I agree that he's never been stopped permanently with physical force. I really don't want to bring this up again, but Savage Hulk, War Hulk among some others HAVE stopped a charging Juggernaut in his tracks. Temporarily, yes.


So now the Onslaught and Celestial Tech debacle was PIS? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but it did happen.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
A lot. But depending on the superman we're talking about, it's not nearly enough. Superman is designed in such a way(well, pre-crisis anyway) that he can accomplish every strength feat. A bit like Hulk, but with less nuance.




Oh Juggernaut is extremely durable with the forece shield on. Without it, not so much, but he still has an insane resistance to injury. But yes, he's been injured(albeit rather briefly) and even knocked out with physical force(Onslaught).

Can you show me some scans?

Cool i knew, u sounded reasonable. I agree with the notion that Supes is one of those characters, who can be unofficially be as strong as they need to be. IMO, there are very few characters with this strength level, anymore(E.G. Hercules, Thor, Gladiator all used to be on this level, but probably due to inconsistency, very few writers depict them as such ). I also reckon that Juggernaut has never really been associated with this category, his lack of lifting feats have yet to suggest he can lift mountains and above. And this is why, i think that he is no real physical match for Superman.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
The Character Ownage thread has some pics of a stopped Juggernaut. But yes, I agree that he's never been stopped permanently with physical force. I really don't want to bring this up again, but Savage Hulk, War Hulk among some others HAVE stopped a charging Juggernaut in his tracks. Temporarily, yes.


So now the Onslaught and Celestial Tech debacle was PIS? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but it did happen.


No the Celestial Tech was not PIS, its freaking Celestial Tech.

But Onslaught was, Physically punching Juggernaut a few states away, lets be serious for a minute, Juggernaut has withstood much worse then that.

And on top of that, he was tired and weakened, yeah.........

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Cool i knew, u sounded reasonable. I agree with the notion that Supes is one of those characters, who can be unofficially be as strong as they need to be. IMO, there are very few characters with this strength level, anymore(E.G. Hercules, Thor, Gladiator all used to be on this level, but probably due to inconsistency, very few writers depict them as such ). I also reckon that Juggernaut has never really been associated with this category, his lack of lifting feats have yet to suggest he can lift mountains and above. And this is why, i think that he is no real physical match for Superman.

I agree, he's no physical match for Superman. Besides, Supes has an aura himself that cannot be penetrated easily.

god you fanboys are terrible, what makes you think hes not a match physically?
and anyway, how strong is stranger, wasnt he like tribunals 4th face?

Originally posted by Apolloknight
No the Celestial Tech was not PIS, its freaking Celestial Tech.

But Onslaught was, Physically punching Juggernaut a few states away, lets be serious for a minute, Juggernaut has withstood much worse then that.

And on top of that, he was tired and weakened, yeah.........

Alright, but do you see what I mean? Juggernaut is limited to guest appearances and yet he was already deemed ready for low showings. Do you see what that means for characters like Hulk or Spiderman? Like it or not, the Onslaught thing happened, just as Hulk's Namor debacle or the snake bite happened.

or was that korvac?

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Cool i knew, u sounded reasonable. I agree with the notion that Supes is one of those characters, who can be unofficially be as strong as they need to be. IMO, there are very few characters with this strength level, anymore(E.G. Hercules, Thor, Gladiator all used to be on this level, but probably due to inconsistency, very few writers depict them as such ). I also reckon that Juggernaut has never really been associated with this category, his lack of lifting feats have yet to suggest he can lift mountains and above. And this is why, i think that he is no real physical match for Superman.


Just because someone lacks feats does that mean they are not strong.

Galactus has Immeasurable strength, but can you tell? Juggernauts Fights speak for themselves, he has overpowered people with Unbelievable Strength feats.

Juggernaut was a villain, your not gonna see him saving the world form a falling asteroid, or lifting a serpent, or lifting a mountain to save everyone.

But you will see him physically overpower these people am i correct?

Originally posted by bigbran
god you fanboys are terrible, what makes you think hes not a match physically?
and anyway, how strong is stranger, wasnt he like tribunals 4th face?

Debate. Normally.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
I agree, he's no physical match for Superman. Besides, Supes has an aura himself that cannot be penetrated easily.

Does he still have the Aura ?, i thought that was a long forgotten Byrne retcon ?

isnt thor on supes level of strength? and isnt a godblasts more than supes can dish out?

superman's invulnerability is a piece of shit he gets wounded by the spikey bones of doomsday

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Does he still have the Aura ?, i thought that was a long forgotten Byrne retcon ?

I don't know for sure, I'm not a Superman fan at all

I'm just telling what I know of classic Superman/men.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Debate. Normally. like you, without proof??!?!? not everyone has to follow you!!

Originally posted by bigbran
juggs would crush supes, its not like hes hulk or anything. nobody knows how strong juggs is, but we do know his minimun is thors level, and his max, could be anything really.
not everybody lifts things all the time like supes, to have strength feats, hell, tyrant doesnt have any strength feats, are we going to put him as weaker than superman?!?!?!?!
if supes can do more than odin, then by all means, hes stronger than juggs. strange could do shit all to juggs, and we all know how ****ing tough strange is. hell the guy withstood a godblast to no effect, supes gets hit by the hammer and screams in anguish.
h2h hand is definately not an option for supes, and with his massive speed reduction, a speed blitz is not an option either.
and supes is just going to be hit by juggs, but still manage to pull his helmut off??!?!?!
hmm, ice breath would work right, wrong!!! first of all, if it could blow juggs back, and if it could actully freez him w/o juggs fighting back. you really think juggs is going to stand there for a min while he gets blown( ) and frozen.(well maybe) hmm and if juggs is moving, NO EFFECT!!!
and another point, if juggs is moving, do you really think supes is going to fly away, no hell try and stopp juggs, and when he realizes its futile, it will be too late!!!
strength- in feats - supes, ya def, in feats supes is a beast, hell hes got the most feats out of anyone.
in reality- prob juggs, hell there is nothing he cant move when he gets mad.
duribilty- completely one sided in juggs favor, when supes gets all his skin melted off, full blasts from thor, shots from odin, massive hits by hulk, full blasts by cyke....etc all to absolutely, no ABSOLUTELY no effect, give me a ring, otherwise deal with it!!!
hmm will flying be an issue... maybe, but it will be a standstill then, or juggs could throw stuff at him, sure supes can use his ice breath and heat vision, or no juggs can jump, wrong idea to fly supes...
heat vision.. hmm, no effect, sure he can move juggs....if he was standing still!!! hell the only effect this will do is to help take off the helmut... if supes is smart enough to do so!!!
bfr- when supes gets desperate, but how will he grab him and do this w/o superspeed. hell thor had to resort to this to juggs, but one prob, thor used his hammer to teleport juggs... one thing supes doesnt have...
agility- no prob, juggs doesnt excactly have the slowest reflexes, he could catch him, of couse.
and of course t-vo- when supes finnaly plays it smart, uses all his powers to get the helmut off, ya supes will get it, but it wont be easy.
stamina- hell if it cums to it, juggs can easily out last supes....

so with all of supes powers, i can see him gets 2 or 3 wins. theres my debate, wheres yours dinalfos?

Originally posted by bigbran
like you, without proof??!?!? not everyone has to follow you!!

Without proof? You mean like this:

Originally posted by bigbran
probably the stronger hulks going to get is when he fought onslaught, because jean brought out all his anger and hows he going to get stronger than that, he didnt even have a brain, how is he going to become strongerwhen he only knows anger. how is he going to become angrier, its impossible and anger does have a limit, the limit would probably be mindless hulk because he didnt know any thing except that he was angry at onslaught, so i dont see how his strenght is infinate.
if i was mindlessly crazy, could i become moe crazy. the name explains it all "MINDLESS".
im not saying juggs is stronger but hulks not going to become mindless, he needed help and to do it on his own he would need time, something he doesnt have against onslaught. if he were mindless at the start he might be able to put him down. but he starts at his normal strenght ,so 4 now juggs wins.
does that make wonder man have infinate strength because he gets stronger when he gets mad, hell no, so y should hulk they both get stronger when mad so i guess that puts wonder man over thor.u know y wms not stronger than thor becuse strength is limited.




that is one of my old post, to prove hulk doesnt have unlimited strength.

Originally posted by bigbran
theres my debate, wheres yours dinalfos?

Yes, that's your illiterate, incoherent rant disguised as debate, but where's the proof ?

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Without proof? You mean like this: im stating, hulks limit, i have also showed that hulk indeed does have a limit, and your just mad because i stepped on your fav character, you on the other hand have shown(no wait said) juggs low showings..

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Just because someone lacks feats does that mean they are not strong.

Galactus has Immeasurable strength, but can you tell? Juggernauts Fights speak for themselves, he has overpowered people with Unbelievable Strength feats.

The word immeasurable gets thrown around a lot in comics, but in answer to you're question ; the guy eats planets, he's hardly going to get muscle fatigue.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Juggernaut was a villain, your not gonna see him saving the world form a falling asteroid, or lifting a serpent, or lifting a mountain to save everyone.

No but he has been trapped under a mountain, and it took him a significant amount of time to break out of concrete. His punches have hardly been that impressive, he failed to KO characters who have been flattened by forces far inferior to Superman's strength.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
But you will see him physically overpower these people am i correct?

Not really .... I'm reallying on the Thor fight, but Ultron has similar durability to Juggernaut, but is only listed as Class 25 strength, and yet he fared as successfully as the Juggernaut did against Thor.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
I don't know for sure, I'm not a Superman fan at all

I'm just telling what I know of classic Superman/men.

Im not the biggest fan of Supes either (Although he been the focal point of some of my favourite books, including Identity Crisis and Kingdome Come), but I'll admit that he's generally depicted physically superior to most other characters.

even all star superman was beaten up by doomsday

Originally posted by bigbran
im stating, hulks limit, i have also showed that hulk indeed does have a limit, and your just mad because i stepped on your fav character, you on the other hand have shown(no wait said) juggs low showings..

You haven't proven a thing, my friend. NOT A SINGLE THING.

Well, I admit that I don't have scans of everything. Bummer. But when I said Onslaught, Apolloknight knew what I was talking about. SO you know it's happened. You know, I'd rather have you denouncing every event as PIS rather than denying the event ever happened in the first place. The latter is so annoying, because I want to discuss the panels, not their eexistence.

But go look in the Character Ownage thread and see for yourself. It's better than me asking you to "E-mail Marvel"

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
even all star superman was beaten up by doomsday



Mate, your ass is leaking onto the computer.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
You haven't proven a thing, my friend. NOT A SINGLE THING.

Well, I admit that I don't have scans of everything. Bummer. But when I said Onslaught, Apolloknight knew what I was talking about. SO you know it's happened. You know, I'd rather have you denouncing every event as PIS rather than denying the event ever happened in the first place. The latter is so annoying, because I want to discuss the panels, not their eexistence.

But go look in the Character Ownage thread and see for yourself. It's better than me asking you to "E-mail Marvel"

I like you a lot !!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman


Mate, your ass is leaking onto the computer.
haven't you read all star superman 4 where he got beaten up by jimmy olsen who used doomsday's genes to transform him self into doomsday?

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
haven't you read all star superman 4 where he got beaten up by jimmy olsen who used doomsday's genes to transform him self into doomsday?

Seriously ????????? .... Well then, i do appologies. Mann, Grant Morisson does it again. Maybe he does have magic powers.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Seriously ????????? .... Well then, i do appologies. Mann, Grant Morisson does it again. Maybe he does have magic powers.
the drawing was very shit ill send some scans a bit later the fight lasted about 2 minutes LOL

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
haven't you read all star superman 4 where he got beaten up by jimmy olsen who used doomsday's genes to transform him self into doomsday?

Superman was losing his powers as he became more evil. It's not like they had a true battle.

Juggernaut is powered from Cyttorak's magic.
Superman, without his superspeed, even with his agility, will be pummeled from a high Class 100 Strength possessor which possess a body empowered by MAGIC.
Magic is one of Supes weaknesses with kryptonite.
Juggernaut's strength is not on Superman's level?Jugg has throwed down with Thor, Hulk and other heavy hitters, and his strength has always been described as incredible.
Superman goes down.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
the drawing was very shit ill send some scans a bit later the fight lasted about 2 minutes LOL


Cheers mate, but don't bother. It should be arriving soon, I'll wait until then. Yeah, i think Quitley's art is not suited to the book. Morisson is pure genius though. I saw the cover, with Jimmy Olsen running away from Supes and i thought it was going to let down the series. Its been sublime so far. Best Supes story since Kingdom Come.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Juggernaut is powered from Cyttorak's magic.
Superman, without his superspeed, even with his agility, will be pummeled from a high Class 100 Strength possessor which possess a body empowered by MAGIC.
Magic is one of Supes weaknesses with kryptonite.
Juggernaut's strength is not on Superman's level?Jugg has throwed down with Thor, Hulk and other heavy hitters, and his strength has always been described as incredible.
Superman goes down.

Captain Ammerica nd Wolverine have 'thrown down' various marvel heavy hitters, and their strength is not 'incredible'.

http://web.telia.com/~u68002685/pics/WonderMan_vs_Logan_ic5.jpg
wolves fights hulk everyone fights hulk, lets see how he does against someone else.

Originally posted by bigbran
http://web.telia.com/~u68002685/pics/WonderMan_vs_Logan_ic5.jpg
wolves fights hulk everyone fights hulk, lets see how he does against someone else.

Yeah .... you've completely missed my point.

Whoever thinks Juggs is not as strong as Supes is CRAZY. Like K3VIL said Supes weakness is magic and magic is Juggs power source so Supes will lose and without superspeed he would lose regardless if he was weak to magic or not. Supes would probly die like he did agaist DD considering he can't hurt him he would use up all his energy if he last that long.

Originally posted by grimside
hand down superman. super could easliy stop juggernaut. all he would grab him throw hi into space or across ocean or sometime.


Why do u guys always say that superman wins via "throwing his opponent into space"? he has never done that with any opponent he has fought to this day

Originally posted by Up In Flames
Why do u guys always say that superman wins via "throwing his opponent into space"? he has never done that with any opponent he has fought to this day Really? I've seen him do it to Lobo, and that's just off the top without searching or really thinking about it.

Originally posted by Juntai
Really? I've seen him do it to Lobo, and that's just off the top without searching or really thinking about it.
Throwing in space is a cop out win for Supes

Originally posted by Up In Flames
Okay, these two fight to the death... Superman fights without superspeed (like in the Justice League cartoon) and the Juggernaut fights without his force field... who wins?

This must be a joke. Superman would wipe the floor with Juggernaut.

Originally posted by D-Block
Whoever thinks Juggs is not as strong as Supes is CRAZY. Like K3VIL said Supes weakness is magic and magic is Juggs power source so Supes will lose and without superspeed he would lose regardless if he was weak to magic or not. Supes would probly die like he did agaist DD considering he can't hurt him he would use up all his energy if he last that long. ^^ This guy knows nothing about Superman. Superman uses up all his energy? You mean . . he puts out the sun? lol. Juggs powers might be magic in the method he obtained them, but in utlization they are still very much physical and thus its magical nature has no bearing on the fight. Supes is faster stronger smarter and better in every way.

Originally posted by D-Block
Throwing in space is a cop out win for Supes It's how you deal with a character like Lobo, since nothing can actually stop him from causing destruction.. you have to get him off planet.

here's my argument: superman is "nearly" invulnerable to all physical attacks but is completely weakened by kryptonite... juggernaut, on the other hand, is completely invulnerable to all sorts of physical attack.
not only that, but his strength is infinite, since his muscular tendons would never fatigue or rupture...
as for t-vo, juggernaut just needs to keep supes from ever touching his helmet at all...

Originally posted by Juntai
It's how you deal with a character like Lobo, since nothing can actually stop him from causing destruction.. you have to get him off planet.

I know Superman and I know one of his weaknesses are magic and I know Superman is not stronger than Juggs and he isn't faster without his superspeed

Originally posted by Up In Flames
here's my argument: superman is "nearly" invulnerable to all physical attacks but is completely weakened by kryptonite... juggernaut, on the other hand, is completely invulnerable to all sorts of physical attack.
not only that, but his strength is infinite, since his muscular tendons would never fatigue or rupture...
as for t-vo, juggernaut just needs to keep supes from ever touching his helmet at all... Tell that to Nimrod, he took down Juggs.

Juggs is not completely unstoppable, especially against a character of Superman's calibre.

Like I said- Supes is stronger, faster, smarter and better in pretty much every way.

And he won't tire during this fight, stamina is probably not coming into play at all.

Originally posted by aliveinboston
This must be a joke. Superman would wipe the floor with Juggernaut.


to date, no one has ever beaten the juggernaut physically... and i'm talking about thor, hulk, collosus, thor again, and countless of other superstrong beings...

Originally posted by Juntai
Tell that to Nimrod, he took down Juggs.

Juggs is not completely unstoppable, especially against a character of Superman's calibre.

Like I said- Supes is stronger, faster, smarter and better in pretty much every way.

And he won't tire during this fight, stamina is probably not coming into play at all. so basically superman has sonic disrupter?!?!?

Originally posted by Juntai
Really? I've seen him do it to Lobo, and that's just off the top without searching or really thinking about it.



http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4643/supeslobo0uo.jpg

And here is one of him throwing a moon sized ship (I'd assume throwing Juggy wouldn't be as hard)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/moonmover.jpg

Even without his speed, I still think Superman would win this. Hovering 20 feet or higher in the air would keep him well out of Juggernaut's effective offensive range and from there he can take his time to run through his powers to find a way beat Juggy. There is ice breath then bfr, removing Juggy's helmet and then using T-Vo (not even sure if he'd have to take of the damn thing to be honest), or even a sonic attack...

http://img343.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlaclassified015page023vb.jpg
http://img343.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlaclassified015page033rv.jpg
http://img460.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlaclassified015page048eg.jpg
http://img460.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlaclassified015page057ku.jpg

It's not like Superman has any rush to end the fight quick. He could just take his time until he finds something that would work. Superman 9/10.

Originally posted by bigbran
hey wait, does supes get his heat vision?
juggs 6/10


heat vision aint gonna do squat!

Originally posted by D-Block
I know Superman and I know one of his weaknesses are magic and I know Superman is not stronger than Juggs and he isn't faster without his superspeed When was the last time Juggs punched someone across a solar system, or crushed a moon in half in one shot, or throwing a moon sized ship?



Supermans magic weakness will not come into play at all, Juggs can't project it against him. Juggs magic is utilized in a purely physical manifestation.

Originally posted by bigbran
so basically superman has sonic disrupter?!?!? Yeah, Superman can whistle or speak at any frequency, even breathe white noise, also Nimrod outfought Juggs before using the disuptor.

Originally posted by Juntai
When was the last time Juggs punched someone across a solar system, or crushed a moon in half in one shot, or throwing a moon sized ship?



Supermans magic weakness will not come into play at all, Juggs can't project it against him. Juggs magic is utilized in a purely physical manifestation. no marvel guy does that, marvel knows better, and that also means supes is above eternity right?

Originally posted by bigbran
no marvel guy does that, marvel knows better, and that also means supes is above eternity right? Don't confuse power with strength. This is a pretty pathetic response here. You get backed into a corner because you know Juggs is nowhere near Superman's level of strength in application, so you resort to "he must be above Eternity", huh?

Feats are what we judge by, Juggs doesn't have any that can match Superman, and Eternity doesn't need them because by appearance we know Eternity plays on a different level than regular cosmics or Earth people.

Originally posted by Juntai
Don't confuse power with strength. This is a pretty pathetic response here. You get backed into a corner because you know Juggs is nowhere near Superman's level of strength in application, so you resort to "he must be above Eternity", huh?

Feats are what we judge by, Juggs doesn't have any that can match Superman, and Eternity doesn't need them because by appearance we know Eternity plays on a different level than regular cosmics or Earth people. no im not in a corner, i used the first person, i could think of. but not everyone lifts thingss all the time. juggs never needs to.
juggs is nowhere nere, supes strength, give me a break. you need strength to ko a god(thor) you need strength to run through anything.
wha gives you the idea that supes is above juggs, feats? feats prove ss is above galactus.