Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Don't be deceived into thinking that because you are Black, White, Red, Yellow, Brown or even green that you are in some special class with respect to God. There are only TWO groups of people on this earth: those who ARE saved, forgiven of all their sins, and on their way to Heaven, and those who ARE NOT saved, forgiven of all their sins, and are on their way to Hell.

That's all folks.

I know that this is a hard pill to swallow, but it is the truth. Get mad at me if you want to, it won't change the truth of God's Word one iota.

"Youre either with us or against us" . . . . damn is there no middle ground in your Church? The Followers of Cyric abhors such divisional methods of conversion.

What a load of tosh. Just because you don't believe and lump yourself into "God's group"does not make you a bad person similar to the things you listed in the Devils group. It isn't black and white. Most nonbelievers are good people, and not all believers are good people.



I will come right out and say that by you definition I apparently belong in this group. But, you know what? Not a single one of them describes me, defines me or whatever. And I don't believe I am going to Hell, mainly as I don't believe there is a Hell, and secondly if there was a Hell because I am not a bad person, and if you "God" is good, well, he wouldn't send good people to Hell, if he did I would label him a great big divine hypocrite.

In fact, if I am not mistaken, there have been a lot of Christians who prayed and read the Bible and all that who are still more similar to your devils group then to anything good. But they would be placed in your "God group" despite being bad in every sense of the word.

In the eyes of some "good" doesn't always equal right or that its enough.

Another pointless waste of time.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

I know that this is a hard pill to swallow, but it is the truth. Get mad at me if you want to, it won't change the truth of God's Word one iota.

Isn't this considered trolling?

Jesusisalive, we get it, we're gonna burn in hell and you'll be in heaven, god loves us, he's there for us, all religions except Christians are wrong and brainwashing.
Now stop posting the same bullshit over and over.

Originally posted by Eis
Isn't this considered trolling?

Jesusisalive, we get it, we're gonna burn in hell and you'll be in heaven, god loves us, he's there for us, all religions except Christians are wrong and brainwashing.
Now stop posting the same bullshit over and over.


Well I kinda thought the purpose of this forum was for people to discuss whatever they felt was right or their opinions.

It's amazing though to read so much hostility about one person's opinion. He didn't even point out which members fit into which group, he did say many fit into the second but once again thats his view!

Eis, why do you think you should just attack him for his beliefs rather then engage in a discussion of his beliefs?

Originally posted by Soleran
Well I kinda thought the purpose of this forum was for people to discuss whatever they felt was right or their opinions.

It's amazing though to read so much hostility about one person's opinion. He didn't even point out which members fit into which group, he did say many fit into the second but once again thats his view!

Eis, why do you think you should just attack him for his beliefs rather then engage in a discussion of his beliefs?
What the hell, it's like everyone in the religion forum suddenly turned into a tree humping hippie.

JesusIsAlive is always on about the same shit, which if you were a regular here you'd notice, when I ask him a question regarding his faith he'll quote broad, vague quotes of the bibles, it's absolutely pointless.
He isn't interested in a discussion, he just feels better of a Christian by professing his believes.

Originally posted by Eis
What the hell, it's like everyone in the religion forum suddenly turned into a tree humping hippie.

JesusIsAlive is always on about the same shit, which if you were a regular here you'd notice, when I ask him a question regarding his faith he'll quote broad, vague quotes of the bibles, it's absolutely pointless.
He isn't interested in a discussion, he just feels better of a Christian by professing his believes.


You make me laugh

I have read several of JesusIsAlive posts and even asked that when he first got to KMC he not post that stuff in the GDF. I have read his responses to questions as well, they aren't my cup of tea.

If you don't like his responses ask a better question maybe?

Did you turn into a tree humping hippie as well? lol

Originally posted by Soleran
You make me laugh

I have read several of JesusIsAlive posts and even asked that when he first got to KMC he not post that stuff in the GDF. I have read his responses to questions as well, they aren't my cup of tea.

If you don't like his responses ask a better question maybe?

Did you turn into a tree humping hippie as well? lol
That makes no sense, I answered your question on why I 'attacked his faith'. Now, you're telling me that I should ask a better question if I didn't like the answer he gave to my previous question... How about he tries to... actually answer my question in the first place.

Honestly, I have no idea what you're on about...

I was kicked out of the Kingdom of God for tax evasion, so I guess it's the Kingdom of Darkness for me.

p.s. I like how, along with adulterous, unfaithfulness, wickedness, eternal death, and sinners, the kingdom of darkness includes "goats."

Goats are pure evil don't you know that Gregory?

Originally posted by Eis
That makes no sense, I answered your question on why I 'attacked his faith'. Now, you're telling me that I should ask a better question if I didn't like the answer he gave to my previous question... How about he tries to... actually answer my question in the first place.

Honestly, I have no idea what you're on about...


Once again let me help you here, ask a better question. If you're not getting the answers you want you need to clarify and ask a better question. It's that simple, you're a smart guy so I'm sure you'll figure it out.

I'm in group two going by those standards as well in the initial post!

Originally posted by Soleran
Well I kinda thought the purpose of this forum was for people to discuss whatever they felt was right or their opinions.

It's amazing though to read so much hostility about one person's opinion. He didn't even point out which members fit into which group, he did say many fit into the second but once again thats his view!

Eis, why do you think you should just attack him for his beliefs rather then engage in a discussion of his beliefs?

If you frequented thsi forum well...more frequently. All thsi would be obvious. An opinon is not valid if it has nto rational basis. You can't have an opinon "just because."

JIA starts many threads that don't really contribute to the forum. People, including myself, jsut get sick of it. We've discussed his believes in countelss other threads. He is not concerned about discussion, he is concerned about conversion and making statements.

Originally posted by Alliance
If you frequented thsi forum well...more frequently. All thsi would be obvious. An opinon is not valid if it has nto rational basis. You can't have an opinon "just because."

JIA starts many threads that don't really contribute to the forum. People, including myself, jsut get sick of it. We've discussed his believes in countelss other threads. He is not concerned about discussion, he is concerned about conversion and making statements.


I have read a few posts of his, but hey my point is if he makes a thread and you dislike it so much why even make your presence noticed?

This is the religion forum, since when is rational a prerequisite for anything in here

Like I said before, ask a different question. If you don't get the answer you want either stop posting or ask a different question, no one forces anyone to post in his threads!

That said the column two is just so comical, whoever actually put together those two lists REALLY needs to give themselves a swirly.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive


I would be careful JIA. I think that these verses describe what is going on here.

Originally posted by Soleran
I have read a few posts of his, but hey my point is if he makes a thread and you dislike it so much why even make your presence noticed?

This is the religion forum, since when is rational a prerequisite for anything in here

Like I said before, ask a different question. If you don't get the answer you want either stop posting or ask a different question, no one forces anyone to post in his threads!


The same "no one forces anyone to post in his threads!" could be applied to any thread. Threads get closed anyway. I frequent this forum alot and I post here more than anyone else. This is a forum for religous discussion, not for preaching and condemnation. This thread doesnt start discussion. JIA already says these things in other threads. Its redundant, superfelous, and basically a trash thread imo. Its a waste of time in the forum.

You're quoting heretic Paul again...


Jesus never said that.....

Originally posted by Soleran
I have read a few posts of his, but hey my point is if he makes a thread and you dislike it so much why even make your presence noticed?

This is the religion forum, since when is rational a prerequisite for anything in here

Like I said before, ask a different question. If you don't get the answer you want either stop posting or ask a different question, no one forces anyone to post in his threads!

I think it is more about his attitude - this is a religious debate forum, but JIA does not debate, nor answer questions asked of him - his style is thus:

Start a thread consisting of bible quotes after which he basically states "If you not Christian you are going to hell" - people, in the spirit of debate engage him and ask questions, he posts more bible quotes and reiterates "you don't believe, you are going to hell." People point out that the Bible is not an answer, he says it is the word of God, posts some more quotes and reiterates "you don't believe, you are going to Hell" and so on and so on.

But anyway, but to the thread - JesusisAlive, you didn't answer my point - so do the bad people that believe still belong on the "God group"? Or do they automatically go in the devil group despite following the bible? Or do you admit that there are grey areas?

And are you happy to follow a God that would send good people to hell just because they didn't believe?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura

But anyway, but to the thread - JesusisAlive, you didn't answer my point - so do the bad people that believe still belong on the "God group"? Or do they automatically go in the devil group despite following the bible? Or do you admit that there are grey areas?

And are you happy to follow a God that would send good people to hell just because they didn't believe?

I am talking about a "class or category" when I state the two groups. Those whose names are written in the Book of Life are saved folk. Those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are folk who are not saved. It is possible for a saved person to walk in the flesh and live in an ungodly, unholy manner. However, that person who chooses to do thus is still saved an in the group of people who are considered "righteous." You see righteousness is a state that a person is reckoned in once that person's sins are washed in the blood of Jesus Christ. God no longer "considers" or views that person as unrighteous, he/she is a new creation. However, it is possible for a person to renounce Jesus Christ and go back into the world. That person will thus forfeit his/her "righteous" status and his/her name will be blotted out of the Book.

Did this answer your question Imperial_Samura?

So the fruits of the spirit mean nothing then....Jesus said "You will know them by their fruits"....and if their fruits be good, and yet not a believer they go where?

Bad Christian + no fruits = Heaven?
Not a Christian + fruits = Hell?

Originally posted by debbiejo
So the fruits of the spirit mean nothing then....Jesus said "You will know them by their fruits"....and if their fruits be good, and yet not a believer they go where?

Bad Christian + no fruits = Heaven?
Not a Christian + fruits = Hell?

I know how you feel. I rarely use smileys but I thought this situation called for one...



See, the idea of a God that is summery and divisive like that turns my stomach. A God who would apparently ignore the unrighteous actions of person because they believe, yet would still damn a good person who didn't. Is not believing such a great crime?

Personally if I was a God I would reward people for their deeds and intents - not for the label they wore. I'd say "if you're good, you're in belief or not. If you're bad you're out, belief or not."

I wonder which sounds fairer?



Sadly yes.

Originally posted by Roland
I'm with ya Atlantis. devil2

I just want to say that if JesusIsAlive's opinion is that people belong in two groups then he can have that opinion. But life isn't that simple you can't just lump actions or people into two catagories and say thats that. I will admit that I am an athiest but does that make me a bad person? No. Oh and a lot of the things on the "EVIL" list (except the whole "devils son and son of wicked ones, I just don't believe that people are "born" evil) are human emotions or actions that many people experience and do in their lives.

He can have his opinion, I respect that but sorry I just think that life is more complicated then the whole "You're either good or bad." theory that JesusIsAlive is promoting.

I never said that anyone was good or bad. I said that there are only two groups of people. Stop misquoting me.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Spiritually dead.

How can you people even BEGIN to understand the Word/will of God when you all try to undertand everything that I write from a "natural" standpoint instead of a "spiritual' one. God's Word IS SPIRITUAL in terms of its import. But if you are not born again, in-dwelt by the Holy Spirit then YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE SPIRITUAL IMPORT of the Bible.

Ultimately (as it seems I am spiritually dead) I can not believe that the Bible suddenly changes if you clasp your hands and say "Jesus, forgive me my sins and come dwell in my heart" - and I should know, myself and all the other kids at my school had to say it every week for the first two years of our schooling during scripture classes. And every time I opened a Bible the words were the same.



I am not trying to blame you for anything - what I am doing is called debating. One person (in this case you) puts forward and argument. I asks questions drawn from that argument and maybe deliver a counter argument. You would answer my questions and respond to my counter argument. It is an educational process.



So concepts of justice change when a nonbeliever becomes believer? Because here, at least, is the bone I am picking. The concept of an unrighteous believer being saved while a righteous nonbeliever is damned seems unjust and alien to the concept of an all loving, all fair God. And since I care about justice I find it hard to believe a spiritual awakening would change my mind on that point - the only way I could be comfortable with it would be if I ignored it and just accepted it. But that sounds like closing ones mind as opposed to opening it.

But now I ask a question, and I want you to answer honestly - which is fairer, from a believers point of view: A God that rewards an unrighteous believer and punishes a righteous nonbeliever OR a God that rewarded a good person and punished a bad one?

Damnit I knew being a goat was gonna send me straight to hell... but at least I've got sure-footing.. ah well...

Being born once was enough for me... placenta.. not fun...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Damnit I knew being a goat was gonna send me straight to hell... but at least I've got sure-footing.. ah well...

Being born once was enough for me... placenta.. not fun...

I am happy I don't remember placenta. Though they are full of nutrienty goodness.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Ultimately (as it seems I am spiritually dead) I can not believe that the Bible suddenly changes if you clasp your hands and say "Jesus, forgive me my sins and come dwell in my heart" - and I should know, myself and all the other kids at my school had to say it every week for the first two years of our schooling during scripture classes. And every time I opened a Bible the words were the same.



I am not trying to blame you for anything - what I am doing is called debating. One person (in this case you) puts forward and argument. I asks questions drawn from that argument and maybe deliver a counter argument. You would answer my questions and respond to my counter argument. It is an educational process.



So concepts of justice change when a nonbeliever becomes believer? Because here, at least, is the bone I am picking. The concept of an unrighteous believer being saved while a righteous nonbeliever is damned seems unjust and alien to the concept of an all loving, all fair God. And since I care about justice I find it hard to believe a spiritual awakening would change my mind on that point - the only way I could be comfortable with it would be if I ignored it and just accepted it. But that sounds like closing ones mind as opposed to opening it.

But now I ask a question, and I want you to answer honestly - which is fairer, from a believers point of view: A God that rewards an unrighteous believer and punishes a righteous nonbeliever OR a God that rewarded a good person and punished a bad one?

I did the same thing as a child, but I was not SINCERE. I was just doing what I was told to do. When you truly reach a place in your life when you recognize that you are a sinner in need of the Savior, then at that point YOU WILL BECOME BORN AGAIN. Until that time you will continue to say or do things by rote memory from your head, but not sincerely, genuinely, and earnestly from your heart.

Again, I AM NOT DEBATING or arguing with anyone. That is not my purpose or calling. God did not call me to debate with you or anyone else. You either believe or you don't believe.

Press on.

Now, you are still using the word "unrighteous" as an adjective to describe actions. That IS NOT what I am doing when I say "righteous." Again, for the umpteenth time, when I say "righteous" I mean a "state" that a person is in once they are saved. It is an everlasting designation. For example, let's say that you go to the clinic to get H.I.V. tested (this is purely hypothetical so don't nit-pick my for instance) and after your blood is drawn the physician or lab tech certifies you "H.I.V. negative. Unless YOU do something to change this, you are forever classed among those who are not H.I.V. positive. The fact that you are not H.I.V. positive is not an act it is a "state" that you were classed in.

Simarly, when a person accepts Jesus Christ's payment for sins, he/she becomes "righteous' in God's eyes forever. So even if that person does "sin" (now I am talking about an action) he/she is still classed as "righteous." That person just needs to ask for forgiveness for their sin (now I know that that statement is going to open a can of worms for some of you). But that person has not forfeited or lost their "righteousness" status in God's eyes, they have simply broken fellowship with God their Heavenly Father. Similar to the way a son or daughter breaks fellowship with his/her parents when they disobey their parents. The son and daughter are still the parents children but the fellowship (that loving, social, filial connection) is disrupted until the children make up with their parents in some fashion.

So their is no such thing as an "unrighteous believer" this is an oxymoron. But there are UNHOLY believers. And conversely, there is no such animal as a "righteous nonbeliever."

And another thing God doesn't determine our salvation, nor does He keep track of how good or bad we are in terms of our salvation from sin. Our salvation is NOT based on our good or bad works at all. Our merit, no matter how laudable will NOT get us into Heaven. We can never be good enough. That is why Jesus had to die. I say had to die because if humanity was ever going to have a chance again at being "righteous" in God's eyes it would require God to officially "stamp" us if you would or "class" us as righteous. That is why God set up the whole salvation process the way that He did. God requires us to CONFESS Jesus Christ as Lord.... Why? because when you ask Jesus to save you from your sins, God will personally wash away every sin that you ever thought, spoke, and committed, past, present, and future. Then God will credit to your account as it were righteousness. You will get credit for being righteous through Christ Jesus. God credits us with the righteousness. We did not earn, merit, or deserve to be credited with righteousness though. It is something that Jesus has or is rather and when we put our faith in Jesus, we get the same righteousness designation. God will forever see you as "righteous" in His eyes (but because of what Jesus did for us and His righteousness "designation" being reckoned to our account as it were.

I could go on for days, weeks, months, and even years about the Word of God but time would fail me. So I need to conclude for now.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
So their is no such thing as an "unrighteous believer" this is an oxymoron. No it's not.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
No it's not.


No it's not, then a happy face but no explanation as to why you deny what I have written.


OOKAYYY!

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
KINGDOM OF GOD (God's group)

SONS OF GOD
SONS OF THE KINGDOM
LOVE
BLESS
DO GOOD
PRAY FOR
SAVED
RIGHTEOUS
HOLY
BELIEVER
SAINT
HEAVEN
JOY
PEACE
ETERNAL LIFE
FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT
SPIRIT
SPIRITUALLY MINDED
LONGSUFFERING
KINDNESS
GOODNESS
FAITHFULNESS
GENTLENESS
SELF-CONTROL
BOLDNESS
FAITH
MARRIAGE
SEX IN MARRIAGE
SEXUAL PURITY
BORN AGAIN
SHEEP
WHEAT
GOOD
JUST
GOOD GROUND
TEMPLE OF GOD
HOLY ANGELS
LIGHT
SALT
SPECIAL PEOPLE
CHOSEN GENERATION
ROYAL PRIESTHOOD
HOLY NATION
HOPE
WALK IN THE SPIRIT
WORSHIP GOD
DON'T STEAL
DON'T COVET
DON'T GET DRUNK
SEASONED SPEECH
GIVE WISELY
WASHED
SANCTIFIED
JUSTIFIED
IN CHRIST
IN THE LORD
SLEEP IN THE LORD
EVERLASTING LIFE
BLESSED OF GOD



kingdom of darkness (the devil's group):


sons of the devil
sons of the wicked one
hateful
you curse
practicing evil
get revenge, repay evil for evil, vindictive
not saved
unrighteous
unholy
unbelievers
sinners
on your way to Hell
sadness, depression, misery, sorrow
contentious, dissension,
eternal death
works of the flesh
sinful, human flesh
carnally minded
quick to get angry or shed blood
outbursts of wrath
wickedness
adulterous, unfaithfulness,
strife, confusion, disorder
drunkenness,
fearful
unbelieving
divorce for wrong reasons
having sex without marriage
uncleanness, lewdness, fornication
spiritually dead
goats
tares
bad
wicked
wayside, stony places, thorns
I can do whatever I want with my body
demons or wicked, evil, and unclean, spirits
darkness
sons of disobedience
having no hope
walking in sinful, human flesh
idolaters (those who worship idols worhip satan or demons)
thieves
covetous
drunkards
revilers
extortioners
sinners
in Adam (or in your sins)
destined for everlasting death and punishment
cursed

Which group are you in?


Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I never said that anyone was good or bad. I said that there are only two groups of people. Stop misquoting me.

Please reread your first post. You say there are only two groups of people. Now look at the words you use to describe the first group, these words describe good. Now look at the second group, these words describe bad/evil/hate. Simple as that. While you may not have DIRECTLY said the groups are good and bad/evil, that is what I got out of it. I wasn't misquoting you either that was my opinion, you obviously don't believe in any other opinion but your own so this post is probably a waste of my time.

As for the goat message, there is something called humor out in the world you might want to find it.

Originally posted by Roland
Please reread your first post. You say there are only two groups of people. Now look at the words you use to describe the first group, these words describe good. Now look at the second group, these words describe bad/evil/hate. Simple as that. While you may not have DIRECTLY said the groups are good and bad/evil, that is what I got out of it. I wasn't misquoting you either that was my opinion, you obviously don't believe in any other opinion but your own so this post is probably a waste of my time.

As for the goat message, there is something called humor out in the world you might want to find it.

Well, what you should have gotten out of it is that you are either SAVED or you are NOT SAVED.

I guess I'm in the NOT SAVED group then, right?

Oh another thing are your lists, where do you list the intolerent and prejudiced? You seem to fall under these two words because you are intolerent of other religions and prejudice towards many people that don't follow your way.

I was under the impression that God is supposed to be tolerent and non-prejudice?

Originally posted by Roland
I was under the impression that God is supposed to be tolerent and non-prejudice? Nah you're thinking Buddha.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Nah you're thinking Buddha.

doh

Oh no, I said something about God that wasn't true! I hope I don't get struck by a lightning bolt... fear

Originally posted by Soleran
Once again let me help you here, ask a better question. If you're not getting the answers you want you need to clarify and ask a better question. It's that simple, you're a smart guy so I'm sure you'll figure it out.

I'm in group two going by those standards as well in the initial post!
I believe I asked him "How does god loving me help me in any way." is that somehow a bad quesiton? Or unclear in any way? And the thread was "Jesus loves you" so it was possibly the most basic and rational question to be asked.

Originally posted by Roland
doh

Oh no, I said something about God that wasn't true! I hope I don't get struck by a lightning bolt... fear Nah god doesn't control lightning that's Thor or Zeus. God prefers rain of fire, locusts that sort of thing.

But yeah you should avoid the outdoors for a while. It's gonna get rough.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Nah god doesn't control lightning that's Thor or Zeus. God prefers rain of fire, locusts that sort of thing.

But yeah you should avoid the outdoors for a while. It's gonna get rough.

fear

Originally posted by Roland
I guess I'm in the NOT SAVED group then, right?

Oh another thing are your lists, where do you list the intolerent and prejudiced? You seem to fall under these two words because you are intolerent of other religions and prejudice towards many people that don't follow your way.

I was under the impression that God is supposed to be tolerent and non-prejudice?


Where you got your impression about God I do not know. Probably from some place OUTSIDE of the Bible just like 99% of the world.

Intolerant of other religions? What you call "intolerant" I call "convinced." Hmm, was Jesus tolerant of the hypocritical, judgmental, trumpet blowing religious Pharisees and Sadducees? He condemned them regularly. Now, my assignment is not to condemn anyone. However, because I am so strong in my knowledge of the Word and in my ability to teach the Word, I can come across rather firm. You know one of the characteristics that stood out for Jesus apostles Peter and John was their boldness. Jesus Christ lives in my spirit, He is there just as sure as I am writing this post. I believe that I am bold and strong (personality-wise) because Christ lives in me. Jesus was/is not the effiminate-looking, milquetoast that artists have rendered over the years. The God-Man that I read about was in command at all times. Jesus was/is bold, He spoke with authority. Jesus even made a rope of cords and drove those who were carrying on commerce in His Father's temple. Yeah, Jesus is Love, but He is also Judge of all the universe.

Acts 4:13
13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated and untrained men, they marveled. And they realized that they had been with Jesus.

Because it is worthless to keep on going and I know if I try all you will do is continue to throw bible quotes at me I just want to say this. . .

GO FUNDAMENTALISTS!!! clapping

yeah, and hopefully not a "Christian Identity". Those people are seriously wasters of space.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
And B.T.W.- most Christians fall into your "Hell" group.

All the ones I know do.

Them and their goats.

I think if Jesusisalive starts having sex, he'll have better things to think about

He makes be a bigger fan of negative eugenics.

Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Originally posted by Dunhova
Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

This verse describes Alliance exactly. I will not respond to any more of his posts.

Originally posted by Soleran
Well I kinda thought the purpose of this forum was for people to discuss whatever they felt was right or their opinions.

It's amazing though to read so much hostility about one person's opinion. He didn't even point out which members fit into which group, he did say many fit into the second but once again thats his view!

Eis, why do you think you should just attack him for his beliefs rather then engage in a discussion of his beliefs?

Because JIA does not like to discuss, this is why we attack him and rightfully. He just likes to post his child like view and that is all.

So JIA........describe what "spiritually dead is"..........

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Alliance.

There are, in all likely hood...many different groups...as noted by the lenghty list of groups in each of JIA's arbitrariyl defined categories.

Originally posted by Alliance
There are, in all likely hood...many different groups...as noted by the lenghty list of groups in each of JIA's arbitrariyl defined categories.

Did you miss my point or are you just being picky?

Picky.

The Devil is in the details my friend....this explains many things about....certain people who....dont "have" the devil.

I dont take "Jesus is Alive" seriously. He seems to just be someone who likes to get a reaction out of people on the forums. He lacks rational, he lacks an identity, he lacks an individual mind, he lacks empathy

He's a robot !

Originally posted by Alliance
Picky.

The Devil is in the details my friend....this explains many things about....certain people who....dont "have" the devil.

So you are picky. Do you miss the forest for the trees.

I don't believe in the devil. Do I have to have something I don't believe in?

Without the trees there is no forest. Do you ignore every subtlety? It is my belief that you can't truely understand something....unless you know its details. The big picture is nothing by itself...and is often deceiving.

and Yes.

JesusIsAlive, life and God is beyond good and evil. Christianity is small minded indeed. Why do you Christians always try to convert other people and don't simply give them the freedom of their own choice and why don't you just consider other people's views? Because you're incredibly misguided. God laughs at your lack of vision, my friend, for God is infinitely greater than Christianity's view.

Originally posted by debbiejo
So JIA........describe what "spiritually dead is"..........

You.

The wages of sin is death. Death is first spiritual then physical (i.e., spiritual death precedes physical death. The reason that people die physcially is because of sin.) That is why we need to be born again because our spirit is separated from God. Once we are born again our flesh is still subject to the law of sin and death. For this reason, the body will still die, but the spirit (that is born again or alive to God again) will live forever in God's presence.

Ephesians 2:1
And you He made alive , who were dead in trespasses and sins ,

Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You.

The wages of sin is death. Death is first spiritual then physical (i.e., spiritual death precedes physical death. The reason that people die physcially is because of sin.) That is why we need to be born again because our spirit is separated from God. Once we are born again our flesh is still subject to the law of sin and death. For this reason, the body will still die, but the spirit (that is born again or alive to God again) will live forever in God's presence.

Ephesians 2:1
And you He made alive , who were dead in trespasses and sins ,

Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Born again? Sounds like reincarnation to me.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Born again? Sounds like reincarnation to me.

Do a search on the words "early church reincarnation", you will find interesting reading on the subject.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Born again? Sounds like reincarnation to me.

Except it generally involves the degredation of spirituality and the birth of insanity .

Degradation of spirituality. I doubt your spirituality is anywhere near the level attained by a lot of Christians who have been 'born again'. Have you ever spoken in tongues, or received a relevation from God, or worshipped God and felt true peace? Didn't think so. Now I know you want to make a smart little comeback saying that you can speak in tongues gutahandisrunin blah blah blah. Really, you got nothing.

Really. Apperently you confuse spirituality with religiouness. Don't confuse them. Incohereent babbling and brainless following is NOT spirituality. Being religous does not make you spiritual.

Spirituality is subtle, in the background. If its an overzealous feeling with cymbols drums and a 76 trombone parade...thats called brainwashing.

which group...
well let's see,
I'm a jew, a non practicing reform jew at that, my political beliefs border on anarchism, i enjoy sex outside of marriage that is kinky and therefore an affront to god, I question god which is a tennant of judaism so back to square one...
oh, an i'm left-handed.

Surely I must have hooves and a tail.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Born again? Sounds like reincarnation to me.

There is NO such thing as reincarnation; this TOO is another lie of satan.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
There is NO such thing as reincarnation; this TOO is another lie of satan.

There is no Satan, that too is a lie of the Christian power base.

Satan is a Hebrew word meaning adversary,rival, antagonizer, or enemy. the only time satan appears as a character in the tanakh (old testament) is in the book of jobs. the character Ha-Satan (The satan) is an angel of God that does his bidding and test the faithful. the book of jobs answers the question of why the Good suffer.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
Satan is a Hebrew word meaning adversary,rival, antagonizer, or enemy. the only time satan appears as a character in the tanakh (old testament) is in the book of jobs. the character Ha-Satan (The satan) is an angel of God that does his bidding and test the faithful. the book of jobs answers the question of why the Good suffer.

We suffer because we live. Those who are dead do not suffer.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
We suffer because we live. Those who are dead do not suffer.

I guess, I was just explaining who satan is before Christians deluded his image.

I disagree.

"Throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 22:13, Matthew 25:30
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment" Matthew 25:46

Sounds like suffering to me.

What is good fiction without danger, motive, and a good plotline?

Originally posted by Alliance
What is good fiction without danger, motive, and a good plotline?

A boring, pointless story.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You.

Now that wasn't very nice.....

Debbiejo you are not spiritually dead. But perhaps you are in the wrong spirit. The Spirit of God is the right spirit, all others are false.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Debbiejo you are not spiritually dead. But perhaps you are in the wrong spirit. The Spirit of God is the right spirit, all others are false.

Then you are saying that there are other spirits?

Originally posted by Nellinator
Debbiejo you are not spiritually dead. But perhaps you are in the wrong spirit. The Spirit of God is the right spirit, all others are false. Who's to say I'm not??? I view god as bigger and unfathomable.....

Any by you saying I'm in the wrong spirit, I know what you are saying....It's the spirit of the imaginary satan again...How do you know you're not in the wrong spirit.......fruits fruits fruits

Dead of the spirit would be truly horrible I would imagine and I believe that the fact that you are on this on forum is an indication that you in at least a small way spiritually motivated. As for being in the wrong spirit I did say "perhaps". And as you said fruits. You do not acknowledge the God of the Bible and therefore are not in his spirit. You may be in no spirit but your own.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Dead of the spirit would be truly horrible I would imagine and I believe that the fact that you are on this on forum is an indication that you in at least a small way spiritually motivated. As for being in the wrong spirit I did say "perhaps". And as you said fruits. You do not acknowledge the God of the Bible and therefore are not in his spirit. You may be in no spirit but your own. I believe what I would call god/intelligence is in all things....there is no this or that...It is all one...so spirit is spirit, and fruits is what we all should have.....BTW why does god need to be a him???....It's in all things...bigger big big...giant....huge....ALL THINGS.....

Well, I'm going to surf the lake of fire, high-fiving Satan every time IO pass him on the shore.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Dead of the spirit would be truly horrible I would imagine and I believe that the fact that you are on this on forum is an indication that you in at least a small way spiritually motivated. As for being in the wrong spirit I did say "perhaps". And as you said fruits. You do not acknowledge the God of the Bible and therefore are not in his spirit. You may be in no spirit but your own.

You assume that you are in the right, what if you are in the wrong?

Then my afterlife might not be pleasant or it might not exist. But I don't think I'm wrong, hence I call it my FAITH.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Then my afterlife might not be pleasant or it might not exist. But I don't think I'm wrong, hence I call it my FAITH. So stap on the rules....It's gonna be a bumpy boring ride........no lotto tickets, dancing, drinks, poker, wrong thoughts (whooo how ya gonna do that one?)....

Oh I know, you have to keep saying "I'm sorry Master infinity...."

Originally posted by Nellinator
Then my afterlife might not be pleasant or it might not exist. But I don't think I'm wrong, hence I call it my FAITH.

I support you having faith, but do not have blind faith.

No lotto tickets - Go figure I'll be living in a house of gold, I won't need money.
Dancing - Sure I'll dance. For joy and with people, it will be fun.
Drinks - The Bible does not condemn moderate drinking, besides the effect of alcohol won't be needed in heaven.
Poker - I will definitely play poker, just maybe not for money.
No wrong thoughts - That will be nice.

Originally posted by Nellinator
No lotto tickets - Go figure I'll be living in a house of gold, I won't need money.
Dancing - Sure I'll dance. For joy and with people, it will be fun.
Drinks - The Bible does not condemn moderate drinking, besides the effect of alcohol won't be needed in heaven.
Poker - I will definitely play poker, just maybe not for money.
No wrong thoughts - That will be nice.

She is talking about this life.

syep.......right here and now. And there are many other rules....How about some pork, shellfish for wearing cotton mixed with wool...........oh, god you're going to hell...

Are you circumcised.......(sorry personal question...)....cause if not,....you're damed......is your hair short or long....jewlery, rings and such...gluttony??? What do you do on your holy day?? Do you do any buisness? Go out to eat (if so, you are causing others to work).....keep it holy?...and what day are you keeping holy?? The Bible says it's Saturday ya know....the Sabbath.

It has been made clear that the law was fulfilled and that what we eat does not condemn us or makes us unclean according to Matthew 15:17-20. I hold these words of Jesus to be true.
It never states in the Bible that circumcision allows one into heaven. I do not wear jewelry other than a simple silver chain at times and a signet ring on special occasions. Gluttony is a sin I do not believe that I am guilty of. On my holy day, I do not work as the Lord commands and try to perform it every Sunday, if I cannot I do it another day of the week. God made the Sabbath for us and wants us to keep it holy, however, God obviously does not care if it is on Saturday or Sunday because attaching significance to dates is almost a form of idolatry.

Sorry, for your my earlier misunderstanding. God condemns gambling as an act of unfaith because God promises prosperity many times if all we do is tithe and have faith. Lottery tickets and other forms of gambling show a disbelief in God's promises. Dancing is not a sin, moderate drinking is not a sin (though drunkenness and debauchery are), and wrong thoughts can be trained to be removed from our thinking, however, we stumble sometimes and need God's grace. Saying sorry to God shows our love and humilty for im. Both of these are good things that he desires and makes us better people.

But Jesus said "Not one jot or tittle will in now way pass away from the law until all be fulfilled not until heaven and earth pass away". I don't think that has happened yet....*looks around, sees earth*.......I think that means keeping the sabbath along with other laws..Jesus kept them.

"Not until everything is accomplished" it says in Matthew. But Jesus fulfilled and accomplished what he came to do when he rose from the dead and ascended to heaven. The law is fulfilled and Jesus's teachings, not the law of Moses are supreme.

Hey, JesusIsAlive...
I noticed it says goats are on your "going to hell" list. I'm half goat! Please, all-knowing messiah incarnate! Tell me, is my father going to hell?

Originally posted by Nellinator
"Not until everything is accomplished" it says in Matthew. But Jesus fulfilled and accomplished what he came to do when he rose from the dead and ascended to heaven. The law is fulfilled and Jesus's teachings, not the law of Moses are supreme. I don't recall Heaven and Earth passing away......Jesus kept ALL THE LAWS including the Sabbath.....
Originally posted by Bardiel13
Hey, JesusIsAlive...
I noticed it says goats are on your "going to hell" list. I'm half goat! Please, all-knowing messiah incarnate! Tell me, is my father going to hell?


JIA special gift for you...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=389506

AHHHH! Senator Tumnus is going to Hell! firefirefireph

Originally posted by Alliance
AHHHH! Senator Tumnus is going to Hell! firefirefireph

I am usually pretty unfeeling about smileys. But that one I like enough to consider starting a religion about it.



Shouldn't you be directing that at JesusIsAlive since he is the one proclaiming the life state of certain posters spirits?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I am usually pretty unfeeling about smileys. But that one I like enough to consider starting a religion about it.

Its amazing...but it doest compare to slam

Originally posted by Alliance
Its amazing...but it doest compare to slam

I love it, my newest initial line when responding to a post from JIA:

slamslamslamslamslam

no banging your head on a desk will not make you smarter.rolleyes1

Originally posted by cking
no banging your head on a desk will not make you smarter.rolleyes1

slamslamslamslamslam

It doesn't take intelligence to respond to JIA.

just a loud bang!

Originally posted by Alliance
AHHHH! Senator Tumnus is going to Hell! firefirefireph That smilie reminds me of the Pentecostal services...

http://www.alanbauer.com/images/Critters/Web%20Mountain%20goat%20looking%20at%20camera-Vert.jpg


fear

NO!!!!!!! it's the beast!!!!!!!!

Or is that the Statue of Liberty........*hmm simularities*....

The US is the beast of Revelations...

*prays* Bless me Father for I have sinned, and up my meds so I can love JIA better and better for he is right*...........

The great God Pan! Or is it Deano's Satanic sex god? Oh, wait. Just a normal goat. Poor thing, biblically doomed just like the snakes, despite not really having done anything wrong.



I think you will need some of the harder hallucinogens to achieve that.

man JIA your so out there with your facist beliefs, have ya'll seen V for vendetta? Kind of reminds me of the leaders. Ok first off I'm athesis, and the whole your going to hell threat doesn't phrase me a bit because unlike you Mr. "I'm right your wrong I have "god" on my side you have satan point of view."

Ok first off Hell back in the day just meant "being alway from god" but the christians after the book "Dante's inferno" was written used hell to scare all the weak minded people into believing in their facist religion. So basically we're all technically are in hell and woo hell rocks

Another thing things were great before christianity was around law and order was kept so you can't say religion makes people better. Its just personal values that makes a person good. I used to be very religious when I was younger but slowly after I grew up and got more uhm open minded and not "god fearing"I woke up from my childish beliefs and now I'm more confident and secure about myself than ever unlike you JIA I rather go to hell than be some evil cruel dictator's b*tch

God is the world's biggest dictator, bully, and insecure social path that I ever heard in my life well according to the christians; if you don't follow me I'll send some plagues down and you can't go to my uber club house aka heaven so you have to hang out with the less cooler crew aka satan's group

The ambiguity speaks the truth, JIA. According to the Bible, Hell isn't that bad of a place. It's just kinda chilly and you're not hanging with God. Kinda like Canada or Hokkaido.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
The ambiguity speaks the truth, JIA. According to the Bible, Hell isn't that bad of a place. It's just kinda chilly and you're not hanging with God. Kinda like Canada or Hokkaido.

Hell is just like Canada.

I've been there too!! Not as bad as you think though...just a lot of eh this and eh that.........lol
Yes, that had a big influence on the church.....The levels of hell, which btw doesn't exist..
Imagining a certain poster is a pretty little flower....See the pretty colors........whoooo...aaaaahhhhhhhhh.....Life is beautiful all the time......*passes to the left*..

how long do you need to be a member before you can start to post up threads? They said they don't trust newcomers because of spam lol

Originally posted by The ambiguity
how long do you need to be a member before you can start to post up threads? They said they don't trust newcomers because of spam lol

Spam and pointless posts in the wrong forum like this? ^^^

Ask here instead.

Originally posted by The ambiguity
man JIA your so out there with your facist beliefs, have ya'll seen V for vendetta? Kind of reminds me of the leaders. Ok first off I'm athesis, and the whole your going to hell threat doesn't phrase me a bit because unlike you Mr. "I'm right your wrong I have "god" on my side you have satan point of view."

Ok first off Hell back in the day just meant "being alway from god" but the christians after the book "Dante's inferno" was written used hell to scare all the weak minded people into believing in their facist religion. So basically we're all technically are in hell and woo hell rocks

Another thing things were great before christianity was around law and order was kept so you can't say religion makes people better. Its just personal values that makes a person good. I used to be very religious when I was younger but slowly after I grew up and got more uhm open minded and not "god fearing"I woke up from my childish beliefs and now I'm more confident and secure about myself than ever unlike you JIA I rather go to hell than be some evil cruel dictator's b*tch

God is the world's biggest dictator, bully, and insecure social path that I ever heard in my life well according to the christians; if you don't follow me I'll send some plagues down and you can't go to my uber club house aka heaven so you have to hang out with the less cooler crew aka satan's group



I have never heard a more truthful and genuine statement on this forum than just now.

Good Job brother !

Hey. Dont diss fascism.

Originally posted by The ambiguity
man JIA your so out there with your facist beliefs, have ya'll seen V for vendetta? Kind of reminds me of the leaders. Ok first off I'm athesis, and the whole your going to hell threat doesn't phrase me a bit because unlike you Mr. "I'm right your wrong I have "god" on my side you have satan point of view."

Ok first off Hell back in the day just meant "being alway from god" but the christians after the book "Dante's inferno" was written used hell to scare all the weak minded people into believing in their facist religion. So basically we're all technically are in hell and woo hell rocks

Another thing things were great before christianity was around law and order was kept so you can't say religion makes people better. Its just personal values that makes a person good. I used to be very religious when I was younger but slowly after I grew up and got more uhm open minded and not "god fearing"I woke up from my childish beliefs and now I'm more confident and secure about myself than ever unlike you JIA I rather go to hell than be some evil cruel dictator's b*tch

God is the world's biggest dictator, bully, and insecure social path that I ever heard in my life well according to the christians; if you don't follow me I'll send some plagues down and you can't go to my uber club house aka heaven so you have to hang out with the less cooler crew aka satan's group

Hey, The ambiguity were you trying to spell "righteous," just beneath your forum name?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Hey, The ambiguity were you trying to spell "righteous," just beneath your forum name?

lol, now that was a proper rebuttal.

Yeah. Because there is no better way to win an argument than insulting someones typing skillz.

Yea JIA I love to completely miss spell words its kinda my hobby you know. But thanks for the correction friend =D.

Oh yeah, I like the way I spell it so I'll leave it on there ok but thanks anyways.

Originally posted by The ambiguity
Yea JIA I love to completely miss spell words its kinda my hobby you know. But thanks for the correction friend =D.

Oh yeah, I like the way I spell it so I'll leave it on there ok but thanks anyways.

Not a problem.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is no Satan, that too is a lie of the Christian power base.

Jesus believes that the devil (satan) exists why don't you?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Jesus believes that the devil (satan) exists why don't you?



Because he DOESN'T believe in Jesus... and reading your posts, I can see why so many fellow Christians have only become hpycrats.

I have tried to explain this to you, but apparently you are not the getting the point.

You have annoyed quite a few posters in this forum, and have made me nearly die in embarrassment.

*waits for the "You don't know Jesus speech*

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Jesus believes that the devil (satan) exists why don't you?



When Jesus personally goes on TV or drops in on me for a Tim-Tam and cup of tea to tell me the Devil is real and gives us a reason why we can believe that, then I might believe Satan is real.

Until that happens what we have is the claim from a second hand source with no verifying evidenced. In a court of law this might be called "hearsay" - it would count for more if the Bible had actually be written by Jesus, but it wasn't, it was written by men apparently told what to say by Jesus, and we only have their word on that.

Even if he did, you'd have no way to verify.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Jesus believes that the devil (satan) exists why don't you?



Angra Mainu, Anubis, Ahriman, Kali, and Hades all preceded Satan, yet they were the "devils" of thier mythologies.

The idea of a devil is just that....an idea. There is no proof of his or her existance, and it was constantly used as a scare tactic by both Protestants and Catholics.

I feel sorry for how brainwashed you are my dear freind.

How unfree you must be to put such limits on yourself, not allow yourself or others to enjoy life in its totality, and to WAIT until you die to finally achieve a sense of satisfaction. Well...if you wanna waste your own life, that's fine by me, but don't harass other people by convincing them to waste theres.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Jesus believes that the devil (satan) exists why don't you?




cause jesus never really existed, as the son of god. perhaps just a normal man. god doenst exist either, nor doesnt satan. n the smiley at the end of ur post is not there to cause or make u feal any genuine amusement or to describe ur mood while posting but to create an aura of confidence and calm, humble logic in the face of "apparent" logicless criticism of us non relegious fools. needless to say i find that arrogant n high headed.

TIME FOR A DRINK! EVERYONE NOW!

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Angra Mainu, Anubis, Ahriman, Kali, and Hades all preceded Satan, yet they were the "devils" of thier mythologies.

Well, not really "devils" in the Christian sense of the word, though some were feared. Pan and certain Carthaginian and Mesopotamian gods also belong on the list as though they were not inherently associated with death, aspects of their images would taken and demonized by the Church.

What's wrong with the devil anyways, I say you religious fanatics leave the poor guy alone what has he done to you? I bet he's crying in hell right now I feel bad for all the slander put on such a innocent guy. Well if god is soo powerful than why doesn't he just kill Satan and everyone will be oh so happy? There is no such thing as good and evil just points of views.

For example what if you grew up in a society where its ok to kill a man if he steps behind you looks at your butt? Sounds kinda funny right but in the medieval ages if you don't believe in what Christians believed you were damned and burned at the stake or "excommunicated

Good or evil? Who's the say? The one in charge of coarse,10 commandments my donkey. The crusades and we all know everyone lies, religion is a tool yeah you heard me a tool to keep a stable society but now with law and order it's soon to be useless just like aunt betty's 87 civic

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Jesus believes that the devil (satan) exists why don't you?

nah ah......not a person....just a word for being deceived, kinda like you.......Oops.

Originally posted by debbiejo
nah ah......not a person....just a word for being deceived, kinda like you.......Oops.

Deb, if you type something "blue", you can always backspace and redo it.

BLUE

Originally posted by Alliance
BLUE

Do you not understand the term "blue"?

Originally posted by Alliance
BLUE

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Born again? Sounds like reincarnation to me.

There is no such animal as reincarnation BASED on the Bible--my basis and premise.

Although in the end of times wont our souls be getting new bodies? Or hooking up with our old ones? That sounds a bit like.....

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
There is no such animal as reincarnation BASED on the Bible--my basis and premise.

That is your interpretation. You can read the bible a find what ever you want.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is your interpretation. You can read the bible a find what ever you want.

I have no "interpretation" as such, the Bible just doesn't mention reincarnation.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I have no "interpretation" as such, the Bible just doesn't mention reincarnation.

Jesus taught reincarnation, he just had a different name for it.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Jesus taught reincarnation, he just had a different name for it.

What would that be?

Originally posted by Echuu
What would that be?

Rebirth. I don't know the scriptures, it's been years sense I have read them. Check it out, and if I'm wrong, let me know.

Originally posted by Echuu
What would that be?

No Jesus did not teach reincarnation. Stop spreading untruths about my Lord and Savior.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Rebirth. I don't know the scriptures, it's been years sense I have read them. Check it out, and if I'm wrong, let me know.

I understand what you mean. You may have gotten that from this scripture....?
John 3:3, "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." If you read on it talks about Nicodemus discussing with Jesus about the Kindgom of God.

But... in Hebrews 9:27 it also says "And it is appointed for men to die once, but after this judgment."

Originally posted by Echuu
I understand what you mean. You may have gotten that from this scripture....?
John 3:3, "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." If you read on it talks about Nicodemus discussing with Jesus about the Kindgom of God.

But... in Hebrews 9:27 it also says "And it is appointed for men to die once, but after this judgment."

Thank you.

I only read the words of Jesus from the bible, I don't believe in the rest.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Thank you.

Welcome.