Elizabeth: Who will she choose? (*Spoilers)

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Shadow0fabandit
I advise you all to not read this until you have seen the movie. We don't want to spoil it for anyone.

Now as you all know, there is the beginning of a love conflict going on in Dead Mans Chest. This thread here is to discuss your thoughts and opinions about this conflict furthering on to the next Pirates movie.

I'll start off...

The whole Elizabeth kissing Jack Sparrow, in my own opinion had no essential love value at all, I believe that she only did what she had to do to save the lives of the rest of the crew. Yes, I believe that she cares about him and loves having him around but I do not believe that she is in love with him. I believe that is why she was so heart broken after she chained him to his own ship for dead. She did what she had to do to save everyone, even if she didn't want to do it.

The compass pointing towards jack at all times, I believe was showing Elizabeth that yes she wanted something of Jack, not him. She wanted him to be a good man at heart and she was doing everything possible to make him that way. Like I said, she probably loves having him around.

My reasoning as to why she didn't rejoice as to having Will back is because she was mourning what was to be the future death of Jack Sparrow. As you remember in the First Movie she was against the hanging of Jack Sparrow because it wasn't right. This in mind, the reason she was so heart broken was because what she was making Jack do, which was give up his life, was not right and she knew it.

As you can remember towards the end how heart broken she was, was because of what she had done and what had to be done to save everyone. Everyone of the crew loved Jack Sparrow and did not want him to die, but it tore her up more because she was the cause of his death and she knew it.

With every love story there is always a catch. This is it. Now I think Elizabeth is truely in love with Will Turner because of the pure fact of how much she was worried about him and how much she cared about him within the first and second movie. I do believe however that she may have an desire for Jack because she was able to know him more and she was around him more in Dead Man Chest and Will was not there to give her the attention and love she was longing so greatly for. Like she said "I'm so ready to be married". She was longing for love and she turned to Jack why Will was gone. But I still do believe that her true feelings are for Will. She is just a bit confused due to the whole seperation from Will for so long and the temptation.

Any thoughts?

Matt

spencerspider
Um, she will choose Will..

Shadow0fabandit
Meh. This gives me something to talk about. I love to talk about love stories ^.^

Matt

*-=Fat sacK=-*
I reckon she will chose jack i don't know why but i reckon she will

LovelyOne
Its going to be Jack (This is my guess based on years of learning film studies)..there are more than enough hints in the film to suggest she wants jack over will..the very fact she is changing into a pirate suggests that she is becoming more suitable for Jack over Will. She is obssesed with that lifestyle and thus she obssesed with Jack. Will did not fall in love with Pirate Liz. He fell in love with rich, lady-like liz..and she is NOT going to change back for wil..and Will isnt going to like it.

Also Disney have added a new "project" for Will to find more important than Liz and that is the introduction of his father. Will is going to be mainly saving his father instead of worrying about Liz. Liz dosnt even need him to worry for her now..She is becoming free.

Jack doesn't have a new person to be distracted with. Notice the lack of a different love interest for him appart from Liz.

Also the main..MAIN moment that suggests that she actually wants him is the part where after she kisses him and chains him to the deck, she GOES IN FOR ANOTHER KISS then pulls away and lies through her teeth "I'm not sorry" its BS...she wanted another taste..she obviously couldnt get enough.

There was an obvious lack of development in Will/ Liz's relationship. It didnt develop at all. What DID develop was a possible relationship between Jack and Liz. Their relationship on screen was the most prominent..Will and Liz's hit a dead end at the end of the last movie... Disney probably know that its going to bore peple a tad. If they really wanted the Will/Liz thing to continue they wouldnt have made Liz's character change so drastically and they wouldnt have introduced Will's father to be Will's distraction...they also wouldnt have interrupted the wedding IMO.

Just my opinion though.. I accept that i may be completley wrong.

Pirates= Love
Sure they gave Will another "project" with his dad...but there also putting Jacks dad in the next movie...so maybe that says something too

LovelyOne
I have to continue here because I cant edit my last post anymore lol.

You may be right about the compass thing but IMO I think she actually already believed that he was a good man. She said she trusted him and I think she genuinely did. So her heart already knew this. The compass only points to what one "wants" and she didnt want him to be a good man at that point, deep down she knew he already was. So I believe the compass was pointing to him for another reason.

They are probably adding Jacks dad in for comedy purposes. Disney wont use two similar story lines where each has to save his father..whats the point in that? (or i may be wrong and they will) But if they both have a distraction away from Liz then who is going to get her? Neither..so I dont think Jack's dad is going to be a big distraction for Jack.

sweet_kat22
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Its going to be Jack (This is my guess based on years of learning film studies)..there are more than enough hints in the film to suggest she wants jack over will..the very fact she is changing into a pirate suggests that she is becoming more suitable for Jack over Will. She is obssesed with that lifestyle and thus she obssesed with Jack. Will did not fall in love with Pirate Liz. He fell in love with rich, lady-like liz..and she is NOT going to change back for wil..and Will isnt going to like it.


Totally agree with you there mate, couldnt have said it better myself stick out tongue

Although if they DO put them together in the end, they will HAVE to find another purpose for Will which could be anything at this point. Because whether us Jack fans want to admit it or not TONES of Will fans will be disapointed and not want to watch it without a Liz/will relationship so they will just have to find some other good reason for Will to be there.

Ultimatly I think Disney doesnt want Liz to change because either way they know that they will loose a chunk of an audience when they just like "Bye will thanks for everything but we dont need you anymore"

Like do we really need 2 jack and liz threads, we are going to come up with millions of possibilities before the movie comes out and we will all be disapointed if it doesnt turn out how we wanted it lol.

blackpearl44
^^ Yes, I totally agree with you, I don't think Jacks dad will be a big deal on Jacks part at all. and I don't think Jacks dad will get himself into a lifetime service on davy jones' ship like will's dad.....so I don't think Jack will have to worry about saving his dad like will has to. Therefor, spending more time than will with liz.

katelovespirate
i support jack. if the character of liz keeps developing like it has been, i think she will end up with jack. however, she might go back the other way. who knows.
we are in for a major emotional rollarcoaster. if she chooses jack, we will have to get some liz/will closure. if she chooses will, gosh, we will all feel let-down i think, cause where will that leave jack?
i do think will's dad is going to have a lot of influence over him in the next film. i can imagine some sort of conflict of having to choose who to follow/save, his dad or liz, and he already made that oath to his dad. however, disney isnt flippant about the will/liz relationship. both movies so far have been about will doing something to rescue her, and the whole first film ended with a culminating kiss/engagement. they cant just pretend that didnt happen. no matter where the series goes, that movie is finished, they cant go back and be like, well elizabeth wasnt really sure she loved will, cause she seems sure in the 1st one.
personally, i think jack and her just have more chemsitry, more things in common- it makes more sense for them to be together. all the hints in the 2nd one totally point to that. but it is still disney, ya know? i just cant fathom them actually doing that. sometimes i get the feeling that they werent trying to make the love-triangle so obvious and central to the movie.
i just dont know how many more lines disney will cross...

blackpearl44
This is why it is so hard to figure out what will happen between those three in the third movie......they can't really introduce a new love interest for any of the characters, because it wouldn't have enough time to develope in one film, (unless they do a 4th pirates movie, but were not sure about that yet) so assuming that there will be 3 pirates movies, a new interest for any of the characters would be uncalled for, and would be so random, because you wouldn't get any time to really get to know the character. We know Jack inside and out, but that's because he's been in the two pirates movies so far, so we can expect the kinds of actions from him in the 3rd, same with will and liz.

LovelyOne
Thanks for agreeing with me peeps.

The fact that this whole Liz/Jack thing has generated so much discussion and is probably THE biggest moment of the film, Is now a big bonus for Disney. It completely opened up a new door for them and the majority of people actually like it. They would be silly to drop it in the 3rd movie.

I agree Will is most likely going to be the one who lets Elizabeth go and not the other way round. If its Will's decision to leave her then the fans probably wont be as pissed lol. And the fact his father is here is sort of pushing the possibility that he can let her go. Its going to be Will who decides what he wants I think. I personally think that Liz has already said goodbye to Will because she has changed.

If you think about it Wills' main purpose in the first film was so he could be with Elizabeth who needed protecting but now she doesn't.. Where as Liz's purpose was to be with Will but for her to also start breaking free. Now that she has Will pretty much has no purpose, that’s why Disney added his father back into it to give him further purpose. I cant really see Will/Liz's relationship progressing. Its kind of run its course IMO

blackpearl44
^^ I also agree with that. I think they may be wanting o throw you off with the whole Jacks dad in the third one. But I don't think his dad will need saving or anything like that like will's dad. I think Jack's dad's only purpose will be to give Jack some sort of advice for something. It may be linked to that issue, or it might not be. Tough to say until we know more about the next film.

katelovespirate
yeah i agree there.
considering the rest of the "pirates" landscape is really changing, i think it would be fair to say their choices are going to reflect new social roles that we havent seen them in. The EITC is definately going to have a huge part to play in the 3rd one, meaning all the pirates banding together. but when its over, they will have to choose what life they will lead. i think liz would choose piracy, except her dad will probably die in this one or something... and that might affect her. will is kinda uptight, but he has already made some piraty changes, and has to save his dad, who will probably try to convince him not to be a pirate. oh gee. im rambling on and on without a point.
i think it was cool of disney to take such a big risk by introducing the jack/liz element. because they know everyone will have a strong opinion about it, and they will have to disappoint a lot of people...

blackpearl44
Yea, If will cares enogh about his dad to save him, than he cares enough about him to take his advice and not be a pirate, because that's not what will's dad want's for him. And Liz won't want to go back to her old lifestyle, she wants to be a free spirited pirate like Jack.

LovelyOne

blackpearl44
If that is true. than liz won't have any reason to go back to port royal, besides serving the death sentence, and she'll obviously never do that lol. so she would have no reason to go back to the way she was, one, because she don't want to, and two, even if she did want to, she can't anyway because she'll be put to death if she goes back.

LovelyOne

blackpearl44
Yes, I agree (I agree alot with you lol) I think she'll choose to be a pirate anyway, the thing about her father being murdured will just give us a better idea about that. If it is true. and I think she has already fallen for Jack, I think she's just in denial, because she dosn't think she's changed, and she's looking at her life when she fell in love with will, and she still thinks she is that person, but she's in denial, she dosn't think she's changed, and she thinks that she could never love a pirate.....but she's realizing that she is not the same person that will fell in love with, and she wants to be a free spirited person like Jack...and not uptight like will. Like she used to be.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by blackpearl44
Yes, I agree (I agree alot with you lol) I think she'll choose to be a pirate anyway, the thing about her father being murdured will just give us a better idea about that. If it is true. and I think she has already fallen for Jack, I think she's just in denial, because she dosn't think she's changed, and she's looking at her life when she fell in love with will, and she still thinks she is that person, but she's in denial, she dosn't think she's changed, and she thinks that she could never love a pirate.....but she's realizing that she is not the same person that will fell in love with, and she wants to be a free spirited person like Jack...and not uptight like will. Like she used to be.

LOl yeh.

She thinks she's all noble still but she chained jack to a ship and left him to be doomed to save her own skin. She acted like a right little pirate there. She also managed to fight and actually dave herself instead of being rescued. By the time Will arrived to her she didn't really need him there. She could have taken care of herself..She did actually. Will was so blind to it..he felt as if he had to fight for her again.

"stay with the chest" "NOOOOOOO!" lol

blackpearl44
No kidding ^^ lol

Will think liz can't take care of herself, and he dosn't trust her to take care of/protect herself /smeone else......but Jack puts that trust it her, and he knows she can handle it, and she respects that in Jack.

sweet_kat22
You guys are going in circles as I said in my other post.
This will never end lol. I think all I have to say is everything that has been said is true about Liz and Jack we just have to wait and find out.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by blackpearl44
No kidding ^^ lol

Will think liz can't take care of herself, and he dosn't trust her to take care of/protect herself /smeone else......but Jack puts that trust it her, and he knows she can handle it, and she respects that in Jack.

You know what that would make sense actually. I read 50 pages of what is apprently the draft script for PotC3. It was won in a competition and the winner put it up on MYspace to share. I dont know if its real or not though.

POSSIBLE SPOILER HERE:

But what you just said makes sense for one part I read. Where Jack trades Liz over to Seo Feng (or something) for one day after being betrayed by Will. and he seems to have faith in her that she can handle herself. He tries to reassure Will but Will wont listen. He seems to think that she is still all weak and needs protecting.

And sweet_Kat..hehe yeh we are going round in circles but its fun going round in circles. Happy Dance

Pirates= Love
Ok now this is really really outta the blue but here is one thing i think or mostly want...as most of u know im a huge Will//Liz fan...but maybe Liz will go with Jack but maybe he'll go back to Scarlett...i know its really hopeful on my part but she's on the cast list for POCT 3 so idk...it might just happen

blackpearl44
Originally posted by LovelyOne
You know what that would make sense actually. I read 50 pages of what is apprently the draft script for PotC3. It was won in a competition and the winner put it up on MYspace to share. I dont know if its real or not though.

POSSIBLE SPOILER HERE:

But what you just said makes sense for one part I read. Where Jack trades Liz over to Seo Feng (or something) for one day after being betrayed by Will. and he seems to have faith in her that she can handle herself. He tries to reassure Will but Will wont listen. He seems to think that she is still all weak and needs protecting.

And sweet_Kat..hehe yeh we are going round in circles but its fun going round in circles. Happy Dance

I don't think that script is real, some parts may be semi-possible, but for the most part I think it's fake.

but the thing that you read from the apparent script does make sense. if that is a part in the movie, it's probably something modefied from that form.

and it is fun going around in circles lol but it seemes we make a new point on each subject everytime we bring it back lol.

LovelyOne
Yeah I have a feeling the script is fake too. But the guy seems pretty certain its not..If it is fake I hope Disney sues his ass.

and yeah we are picking up on more and more things. I just hope we are right.

Pirates=love...who's scarlett? confused

blackpearl44
Originally posted by LovelyOne


Pirates=love...who's scarlett? confused

LOL That's what i'd like to know.

and the more things we pick up on, the more accurate we can be on our theories lol.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by blackpearl44
LOL That's what i'd like to know.

and the more things we pick up on, the more accurate we can be on our theories lol.

I think she may mean Anna Maria laughing out loud Oh I just had a horrid thought. Maybe Disney are just teasing us with this Jack/Liz thing and they will go back to thir typical disney ways and end it with Will/Liz..then Anna Maria will appear right at the end or something..with their lame "everyone gets someone" ending. I hope not. I think most people would be really dissapointed at that..people want to see the LEADING LADY WITH THE LEADING MAN! JACK SPARROW

But yeh, lets keep finding things to back up our theories. There are too many things that suggest they wont end it like a typical disney movie.. With this film I think they are softening the blow (by slowly changing the characters priorities around) for a BIG BANG of an ending..and they better not dissapoint!

blackpearl44
Yea, this is why I can't wait until the second movie is availible on DVD, then I can compare the 1st and 2nd side by side lol.And this is why I think they are changing will's priorities around also. to keep Jack the way he is, and let liz conform to his lifestyle, which is what she really wants. but as long as we can find peices of info to backup our theories. any one of them is possible. it will also be helpful when we get more legit info on the third movie.

~Air Angel~

blackpearl44
The compass points to what your heart desires most....so you think it just happens to point to Jack everytime liz holds it, and that is broken? I don't think that is the case......

Shadow0fabandit
Will and Elizabeth have no choice but to engage in Piracy. They are wanted from that Lord who wanted the heart. They are never safe they way they were, so they are probably going to both engage in piracy.

Air Angel, I must disagree with you on the compass. The compass shows what your heart desires the most. In Elizabeth's case it points to Jack.

I believe the compass pointed to Jack because Elizabeth wanted Jack to be a good person at heart and not such the Pirate he was. That is probably wanted the most.

Matt

blackpearl44
She knows jack can be a good person.....but liz is turining into something jack loves, and will dosn't, because will is preoccupied with his father, and was barely with liz in the 2nd movie.....and when he was he was just telling her to guard the chest (as i've already said, in the top post)

katelovespirate
i love these circle discussions. hahaha. i am delighted that everyone has so much to say. smile
it would be VERY disney to stick liz and will back together and then throw annamaria at jack like "everybody gets someone". gee. how annoying would that be.
i think it was pretty obvious right from the start that liz's dad was going to die. that norrington does it is a nice twist. i like that. that will be really dramatic. the question is, who will get norrington?!

blackpearl44
It wouldn't be a problem if they just wrote norrington out, obviously, Beckett is going to be the one causing all the trouble now.....norrington has lost everything...I don't think they should bring him back, but they might..and the main character, Jack, should get the main girl, liz, having them put Jack with a character we've barely even seen, would be worse than putting Jack with nobody lol will dosn't want to change, but liz is willing to, because she's tired of her old life, and will won't like it, and will is going to have his hands full with the father situation, and Jack and Liz will grow closer together, as liz and will grow farther apart......

Shadow0fabandit
Originally posted by katelovespirate
i love these circle discussions. hahaha. i am delighted that everyone has so much to say. smile
it would be VERY disney to stick liz and will back together and then throw annamaria at jack like "everybody gets someone". gee. how annoying would that be.
i think it was pretty obvious right from the start that liz's dad was going to die. that norrington does it is a nice twist. i like that. that will be really dramatic. the question is, who will get norrington?!

Yes, -.- I have feeling Disney will do that. Usually what they do. I think that Elizabeth's admires Jack and sees herself within him, so thats why she wants him to have a good heart because she wants to be a good person at heart. Possible theory -.-

Matt

Pirates= Love
No before i didnt mean Anna Maria i meant Scarlette or however you spell it... she slapped Jack in the first movie then the other girl slapped him....then in the second movie when Will was in Tortuga looking for JAck she said "give this to Jack for me" and slapped him

Pirates= Love
and i only say this bc i want Will and Liz together....and the fact shes on the cast list for the 3rd movie

katelovespirate
oh gosh she is way too small a character to try to develope in one film... i hope they dont try to do that...

blackpearl44
Why would they try to put Jack together with a person that hates him, and has no prominent role in the movie whatsoever?

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Shadow0fabandit
Will and Elizabeth have no choice but to engage in Piracy. They are wanted from that Lord who wanted the heart. They are never safe they way they were, so they are probably going to both engage in piracy.

Air Angel, I must disagree with you on the compass. The compass shows what your heart desires the most. In Elizabeth's case it points to Jack.


I believe the compass pointed to Jack because Elizabeth wanted Jack to be a good person at heart and not such the Pirate he was. That is probably wanted the most.

Matt
She already stated that she thinks he is a good man. Why would it point to something that she already believes in. It points to something that she wants not what she knows she already has from Jack.

Think about it this way. Liz/Will relationship has not managed to develop any further in the current film but Jack/Liz has. Disney didnt just add in Will's father for no reason. He is there to be Will's main focus. Not elizabeth. There is hardly anything in this movie that suggests a bright future for Will and Liz even the wedding scene was gloomy and depressing plus he saw her before the wedding which signals bad luck. There is alot of stuff some subtle others not that symbolize Jack and Liz are meant to be throughout this movie. I find it hard to see anything suggesting Will and Liz in the future.

Jack is the leading man Liz is the leading lady...Will is the support actor. What usually happens in movies? The leading lady gets the leading man.

katelovespirate
yah i agree. smile i wish i was in charge of how this turns out

LovelyOne
I know me too. I have a feeling they might be pressurised into going for the perfect fairy tale ending..I hope not. DISNEY break the mould for once!! there is a reason why you are going down hill. If you break the mould it may revive some positive opinions for you.
*just incase they read this forum lol*

blackpearl44
But the perfect fairytale ending is not liz and will, because they won't be happy, they always have to be happy, Jack and liz together is the perfect ending, because they will be happy. that's what I think.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by blackpearl44
But the perfect fairytale ending is not liz and will, because they won't be happy, they always have to be happy, Jack and liz together is the perfect ending, because they will be happy. that's what I think.

Very true actually. Liz's changing and all.

We still need a bit more character development from Jack when it comes to Liz. Might be in the 3rd movie. He's probably going to learn to treat her properly unlike all his other women he's had. and if his compass really was pointing to her when he held it, that means she is the one for him smile

Will is going to develop a father son relationship with his dad hopefully and not change into Mr pirate..His dad is might actually try and persuade Will not to be a pirate after what happened to him. He probably wont want his son to live dangerously like that.

blackpearl44
Yea, there still needs to be a little bit more development between those two....but the deleted scenes from the 1st movie helped us alot. showing us the rest of the stuff that they applied in the movie, but didn't show it. But, we'll be able to figure out more when we get more info on the third movie.

Pirates= Love
But the deleted scene prolly had nothing to do with the second movie because disney prolly had no idea about what they were gonna do with a second movie or if there was even going to be one... i mean it took 3 years for the second to come out and its only going to be 9 months for the 3rd so in my opinion "clues about a relationship" from the deleted scenes are just people overly excited

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Pirates= Love
But the deleted scene prolly had nothing to do with the second movie because disney prolly had no idea about what they were gonna do with a second movie or if there was even going to be one... i mean it took 3 years for the second to come out and its only going to be 9 months for the 3rd so in my opinion "clues about a relationship" from the deleted scenes are just people overly excited

The way I see it Disney thought back then it might have been too much to break the mould like that. So they stuck to happy ending and removed those scenes. But with the second movie you can see they dont care about expectations anymore when it comes to perfect endings. So they decided to add a bit more Jack.Liz

The public aren't going to be interested in it ending with Will all the time, its going to get boring Disney detected this and gave it a little twist with Jack/Liz. Will is not the overall fave actor he is the support actor..Keira is the leading lady and Jack is the leading man. The majority are going to want to see more of that relationship. IMO.

To be honet the only reason I became really interested in this franchise is becuase Disney broke the mould the second time round. I'm glad they did.. I really loved the first one but if they continued like that with the second then I would have probably lost interest (probably true for most of the audience)..This change disney has made is going to draw the audience back in for the third.

LovelyOne
If you look at starwars for example, By the first one the audience thought that Luke and Layah were going to end up together. Lucas realized that Hans Solo had more of a chemistry with her and the audience liked that relationship she he changed it round and made him go with her instead of Luke.

When the first starwars was made Lucas didnt intend to make more so he ended it luke/layah to please the audience but as he made more he realised to keep the audience hooked he needed to make a more interesting relationship....similar to what happened with PotC, Jack and liz IMO

Its a classic trend with trilogies that they swap charactors priorities around.

*to quote scream here"

the first one sets the rules, The second bends the rules...the third? FORGET THE RULES

watch most trilogies and you see this happen. This is already true when you look at the first and second film.

blackpearl44
I agree, once the 2nd film is released on dvd, watch both the first and the second movies, you can tell that is exactly what's happening.

katelovespirate
YAY for happy logic, LovelyOne. What does IMO stand for???
if they care at all what the world thinks, they will go with jack. i'm a big supporter of CHEMISTRY.

blackpearl44
Yes, I am a big supporter of chemistry too lol. therefore, a supporter of Jack.

Shadow0fabandit
You may be a supporter of Jack, but knowing Disney, it probably won't happen that way. We'll just have to wait 10 months and find out now won't we? I stick by my "ship" till the end.

Matt

JeSuisUnÉcumeur
I'm more inclined to think that Will and Elizabeth will end up together just because of Jack's character. I never saw Jack as being monogamous. I think he's too much of a free spirit to settle down, even if it were with a pirate. Throughout the movie, I just viewed Elizabeth's attraction to Jack as little more than a crush, and I still think that she's in love with Will.

JeSuisUnÉcumeur
Also, I'm not even sure the Elizabeth/Jack kiss was the writers' idea. In several interviews, Keira has said that she "begged" for a kiss with Johnny Depp, so they decided to give her one. I think the parts with the compass could have still been in the story, but I think they added the kiss later on.

LovelyOne

hermione7
Who will Liz choose

my money is on Jack... aahh..

I love Jack/Liz since the first movie... the stranded island scene

blackpearl44
^^ Yea, me too, I've also liked the Jack /Liz thing since the first movie, into the second movie. And if Jack and liz get together, they won't settle down, because that would mean they both are not the "settle down" type, because Jack certainly isn't, and liz is developing into a character that is compatable with Jack.

blackpearl44
And that was a really good scene....the island scene in the first movie.

katelovespirate
heck yes it was, especially when viewed with the deleted scenes, inclduing the scene i had labled the "jack's sexy scars" scene.

blackpearl44
lol I was thinking the same thing, there are just soooo many signs and hints both in the first, and the second movies that explain every reason why Jack and Liz should be together. and if she goes with Will, it will be uncalled for, and out of place. because they have let the will/liz think fade ALOT.

katelovespirate
yeah totally. but then, the disney movie i think this one is most like is "Three Musketeers", where the main character likes this girl at the beginning, has his share of flirtations and bar-maids throughout the film, but ends up with that girl. hopefully disney has moved away from that idea.

blackpearl44
Yea, the POTC movies are not traditional disney movies.

blackpearl44
They already showed that by introducing a character like Jack.

blackpearl44
They have broken the traditional disney movie mold with the POTC movies.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by katelovespirate
YAY for happy logic, LovelyOne. What does IMO stand for???
if they care at all what the world thinks, they will go with jack. i'm a big supporter of CHEMISTRY.

He He. It short for "In My Opinion" wink

To go into more detail about the 3 trilogy rules and PotC following them:

Movie one sets the rules. Its a typical Disney happy ending. Everything tied up nicely. Pirates stuck to being pirates and good people stuck to being good people. In terms of character relationships everything was nice and neat. PotC1 did this...but this kind of story cant repeat over a trilogy, otherwise people lose interest. Characters need to change priorities and face difficult decisions. You will see the best and worst side of the characters as a trilogy progresses. You don’t see that in movie one.

The second movie bends the rules: This movie shocked people because it showed us that Disney are going against the grain. playing around with its own rules. Jack/Liz relationships. Characters changing and showing the best and worst side of themselves. By the second in a trilogy the audience is meant to still be guessing who's going to do what and who's going to end up with who. Most people think "Its a Disney movie, it will end in a typical way" but this never works in trilogies. Because the Third in the series is always meant to be a twist and shock you. The characters need to develop past what we see in the first movie. You see it in everything from Lord of the Rings to Star Wars to Austin Powers lol

With a third movie the rules usually go out the window completely ..So its very likely that Disney will make Liz go with jack. Its the way trilogies work.

If Disney made each movie in this trilogy end with the rules it started with then it wont capture audiences.

Still I could be wrong. But This film is very unlike any other disney film I have seen. Its the first proper Trilogy I have seen them do. So I cant tell what they will probably do with it in the end. This could be the new step for Disney to change it's image a bit.

POTC lover xoxo
ya i think she will definetly end up with jack because shes turning all pirate and when she chained him to the ship after kissing him she went in for another kiss but then pulled away and then was heart broken sad

JohnnyBloom
she went in for another kiss because she was caught in the moment (i mean, would'nt you be?? wouldn't we all??) i believe that for now her character still loves will and was merely doing this to save everyone's skin ... as i've said before. but later on she may end up falling for jack.

JohnnyBloom
also, i read an article ages ago, where ob said "well the course of love never runs true in films does it, but mostly things work themselves out ... that's all im saying" ... and i agree with him - all romantic film characters have their little arguements. ... but this arguement could be bigger than others and it could not 'sort itself out'.

blackpearl44
Any argument can be sorted out, just as long as there is an equally huge thing they do for eachother to help.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by JohnnyBloom
she went in for another kiss because she was caught in the moment (i mean, would'nt you be?? wouldn't we all??) i believe that for now her character still loves will and was merely doing this to save everyone's skin ... as i've said before. but later on she may end up falling for jack.

Thing is this movie showed us how much she doesn't need Will to be happy. He wasnt even with her through out most of the movie and she took care of herself just fine. Will's new distraction is his dad. Will came back to Liz and she was a different person completley to the one he left in the cell. Even when he did find her it was an accident he was only there looking for the chest so he could save his dad. Actually it seems as if he forgot about what he set offf to do which was save Liz it switched to saving his dad.

Disney needed to keep will out of the picture completley otherwise Liz's caracter wouldn't be able to develop. same goes for Will.. If we want to see these characters develop and stay interesting they need to change...this hapens in all trilogies.

I personally dont think that last thing she did was really for anyone but herself..It makes the whole curiosity scene between Jack and Liz relevant. If she did it for everyone else then that scene would have been completley pointless and cut from the movie.

LovelyOne
EDIT - my bad double post

JohnnyBloom
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Thing is this movie showed us how much she doesn't need Will to be happy. He wasnt even with her through out most of the movie and she took care of herself just fine. Will's new distraction is his dad. Will came back to Liz and she was a different person completley to the one he left in the cell. Even when he did find her it was an accident he was only there looking for the chest so he could save his dad. Actually it seems as if he forgot about what he set offf to do which was save Liz it switched to saving his dad.


true - two fair points there ... similarly for most of the first film she was also on her own and was fine then too!

LovelyOne
Originally posted by JohnnyBloom
true - two fair points there ... similarly for most of the first film she was also on her own and was fine then too!

Yeh but she didnt get out of the Barbossa situation on her own like she would have done in the newer one. Will had to save her there. Now she would probably have to save will.

He's turning into the total Damsel in distress of the movie now. laughing out loud Kidding..but seriously he was the one that needed saving most times in this movie.

warcraft xs
ya i think it might be jack cause when liz has the compass on the island it suddenlly points to him when she is standing on it

LovelyOne
Originally posted by warcraft xs
ya i think it might be jack cause when liz has the compass on the island it suddenlly points to him when she is standing on it

Yeh and if it was really pointing to the chest then the compass point wouldn't have settled.

Also it pointed to him the first time she held it and the second

I think that when Jack was holding it it was pointing at her when he thought it was just broken. Tia seemed to know this but didnt want to tell him. It "worked for him" and showed him the "chest " after it was screwing around for him before that..why would it suddenly work there for him?...It was clearly pointing at her and she just happened to be sitting on the chest.

choosewisely
i hope she'll choose wisely roll eyes (sarcastic)

LovelyOne
Well she has alot of faith in Jack that he is a good man..and we all know that he is..so Jack would be a wise decision LOL...

sithsaber408
This movie was ESB, for the pirates series.

Luke Skywalker? Check. (will turner, with a missing dad to boot.)

Princess Leah? Check. (elizabeth, becoming much more independant.)

Han Solo? Check.
(Obviously Captain Jack, who develops more of a relationship with the heroine, goes from rouge to hero, and is even "stuck in carbonite" at the end of the picture, and his friends need to go off and rescue him.)

Vader? Check. (davy Jones)

Emporer? Check. (the official who took over, forgot his name, that wants the compass.)

R2 and 3PO? Check. (the fat pirate, and the one with the wooden eyeball.)


Darker story which develops the characters, deepens the romance, introduces a father thought dead for the Luke character, and ends unresolved?

CHECK. big grin


Mark my words now, Will Turner and Elizabeth are brother and sister.

lovethemtigers
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Yeh and if it was really pointing to the chest then the compass point wouldn't have settled.

Also it pointed to him the first time she held it and the second

I think that when Jack was holding it it was pointing at her when he thought it was just broken. Tia seemed to know this but didnt want to tell him. It "worked for him" and showed him the "chest " after it was screwing around for him before that..why would it suddenly work there for him?...It was clearly pointing at her and she just happened to be sitting on the chest.

Speaking of Tia - how about the part when she says "you still have the compass I gave you?" and Jack replies, "yes, but it doesn't work." And she replies, "Ah, Jack Sparrow doesn't know what he want - " but she has this look on her face like she knows and understands what he wants,and he doesn't even realize it yet. I love when they are on Tortuga, while Gibbs in enlising sailors - Jack is in the background playing around with the compass. Then Norrington shows up.
On the Black Pearl - when Jack explains to Lizzie about the compass (right after the No dress comment) she has this look on her face -like all hero worship and you can see Norrington in the background observing the whole exchange between Jack and Liz. He's onto them.

blackpearl44
^^ Of coarse he is.....he watches her every move.....remember when Jack made that suggestion to her, and she walked away, and started talking to Norrington, and he said "You know there was a time where I would have done anything for you to look like that while thinking of me" shows that he notices her reaction to Jack when he suggests that stuff to her........

lovethemtigers
Originally posted by blackpearl44
^^ Of coarse he is.....he watches her every move.....remember when Jack made that suggestion to her, and she walked away, and started talking to Norrington, and he said "You know there was a time where I would have done anything for you to look like that while thinking of me" shows that he notices her reaction to Jack when he suggests that stuff to her........

Oh I know,that is one of my favorite scenes. To me that just solidifies how much Disney wants the audience to focus on the whole Jack/Liz relationship. Not only are we picking up on it - but so is Norrington, and others that are around them.

Question: I know it's just a movie, but if Disney intended for Will and Liz to be together they would have emphasised on that relationship instead of devoting 50% of the movie to Jack and Liz. Why didn't Will, as the man in love with Liz, get her and help her get into the long boat first. He didn't even look back to assist her. In Pirates 1 that's what he would have done. He would have wanted to make sure that Liz was safe and protected before anything else. A sign that Will is changing too. I think all of these things are intentional from Disney. They made the movie, of course it is. It can't just be our imagination going off in tangents. Too many of us have the same thoughts.

Liz and Jack will end up together. They have to for Pirates 3 to rack in the money that Pirates 2 has.

lady_captinjack
they deff have to hook up

LovelyOne
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
Oh I know,that is one of my favorite scenes. To me that just solidifies how much Disney wants the audience to focus on the whole Jack/Liz relationship. Not only are we picking up on it - but so is Norrington, and others that are around them.

Question: I know it's just a movie, but if Disney intended for Will and Liz to be together they would have emphasised on that relationship instead of devoting 50% of the movie to Jack and Liz. Why didn't Will, as the man in love with Liz, get her and help her get into the long boat first. He didn't even look back to assist her. In Pirates 1 that's what he would have done. He would have wanted to make sure that Liz was safe and protected before anything else. A sign that Will is changing too. I think all of these things are intentional from Disney. They made the movie, of course it is. It can't just be our imagination going off in tangents. Too many of us have the same thoughts.

Liz and Jack will end up together. They have to for Pirates 3 to rack in the money that Pirates 2 has.

you speak so much sense smile

did you read my Liz/Jack's hat metaphor thing? smile

And yes Norrington is the one who solidifies that what we are seeing with Jack/Liz is completely real.

lovethemtigers
Originally posted by LovelyOne
you speak so much sense smile

did you read my Liz/Jack's hat metaphor thing? smile

And yes Norrington is the one who solidifies that what we are seeing with Jack/Liz is completely real.

I did read the hat theory on the other thread. That is very interesting, I had never even considered that.

It's like okay, what happened to the straw hat and how does she end up with the pirate looking hat?

vegaofthelyre
Hello! I'm new here to the forums but I've been intrigued by the Jack/Elizabeth pairing for some time.

Anyway, getting to the thread topic-- LovelyOne makes some very good observations about the necessity of the j/e romance being sustained into the 3rd film. In all honesty, it would insult the audience's intelligence if the issue were not addressed in some kind of meaningful way. And just from a structural and psychological standpoint, it just makes more SENSE for them to end up together than Will&Liz. The only thing that really worries me is...it's DISNEY. blink And though they've proved that they're capable of bending or reexamining their "rules" with the pirate films, it's possible that they may try to somehow resolve or explain away the tension between Elizabeth and the good Captain... and that would be depressing and trite beyond reason. If it were ANY other company, I would have said Jack and Elizabeth without hesitation. Disney gives me a pause though.... EEEK. Worries me.

That being said, the sexual tension between those two in DMC is undeniable. There is some crackling electricity between Liz and Jack...leading up to the smoking KISS. Now THERE is real passion as I have NEVER seen from Will and Liz. I'm sorry but even in Pirates 1, I felt like Keira and Orlando acted like brother and sister. They have no chemistry whatsoever and I feel vaguely uncomfortable when they kiss.

Also, I thought that Jack and Elizabeth's provocative double entendre laden banter throughout the film was plot significant as well as being intensely enjoyable..(PERSUADE ME... AGh, I know I'D love to persuade him...) Very reminiscent of Old Hollywood and Bogie/Bacall...it emphasizes that they are EQUALS. Lizzie clearly proves that she is a match for Jack and more. Vice versa for Jack. They stimulate and challenge each other to develop and grow as characters. In films, as well as in life, that is one of the clearest indicators of true love and passion. Very sad for poor Will, but let's face it, the lad's a bit eunuchy as Jack suggested. stick out tongue

Darth Vundi
what are u crazy didnt u see the compuse points to what you want and when she threw it, it point to jack game over i win

katelovespirate
vega, lots of good thoughts.

maybe Will actually is a eunuch. gosh. i wouldnt be surprised.

LovelyOne
you know what vegaofthelyre...I agree with you 100%

Thats the thing with Disney..Its what makes me wonder what they will do. But what gives me a spec of hope that they wont sell out on the audience is the fact that the Director has actually said that Will is resembling DavyJones' and his tragic love story. SO that seems pretty doomed to me. Also Tia seems to know that Will resembles Davy when she said "there is a touch of destiny about you, William Turner!" and then the scene emphasises on the fact that its a dark destiny for him. As she is talking about Davy cutting his heart out over his lost uncontrollable fiance (COUGH LIZ COUGH!) the camera lingers heavily on Will and the music is overshadowing and sinister. Why would they add that in if it was going to end up all peachy for him in the end?

OH MY!! I thought I was the only one who felt really uncomfortable when Liz/Will kissed. It didn't seem right that He got her yet there was Jack..I wanted to see her and Jack but it didn't happen. I felt a bit cheated actually. and yes they do seem like brother and sister...she has this interest in being a pirate and Will is the SON of a pirate..why would the daughter of a wealthy man have this urge in her? She may have been adopted. Pirate is obviously in her blood.

Also so far PotC is pretty much following Star Wars episodes 4 and 5..so 6...EKK Will/Liz bro and Sis..ahh I mean Jack is basically Hans Solo and we all know who he ended up with lol.

AND yes I think they have both realised they are each others equal..and the whole Jack lost hat theory of mine pretty much seals the fact that Liz is the missing part of him...hence her looking just like him throughout the movie but SHE wears the missing hat...then Jack gets his hat back at the end.."coincidently" just after Liz has finally come down to his level.

sweet_kat22
Ok I think I got Wills destiny....

Will becomes the new Davy jones...

dun dun dun... laughing out loud

I mean it really makes sense. Everything they point too for Will. He will give up his soul to Davy Jones to save his father. That or Will , will become SO heart broken when he finds out what Liz really wants that he finds the heart and destroys it, by doing this he sets his father free BUT before this Davy leaves him the black spot , Will makes a deal with the Flying dutchman to help him and he will make a new crew to Honor davy jones broken heart.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by sweet_kat22
Ok I think I got Wills destiny....

Will becomes the new Davy jones...

dun dun dun... laughing out loud

I mean it really makes sense. Everything they point too for Will. He will give up his soul to Davy Jones to save his father. That or Will , will become SO heart broken when he finds out what Liz really wants that he finds the heart and destroys it, by doing this he sets his father free BUT before this Davy leaves him the black spot , Will makes a deal with the Flying dutchman to help him and he will make a new crew to Honor davy jones broken heart.

We already sussed that out last week..come on man you living under a rock??

lol thats sooooo last Tuesday..sorry joking..but yeh we guessed that was whats going to happen.

The director has said he is focusing around this whole Will/Davy thing in the next one smile

well we guessed a bit differently..I think Davy's gonna be killed.. but the loss of Liz..and maybe if he also loses his father Is going to make Will cut out his own heart and become some disturbing unnatural creature...(anikin from star wars) he's going to lose everything thats dear to him and it's going to turn his heart into stone (not literally) *cough* Darth Veda *cough*!

come to think of it You might be right. Davy might convince him to cross over after Will loses everything..it would be like the Emperor in Star wars converting Anikin after he lost everything.

sweet_kat22
Sorry, I miss half the stuff on here because of work and it is REALLY hard to keep up with all of it so I just read the last few posts. Go get a job you land lovers stick out tongue Just kidding.

katelovespirate
okay i know this is probably sooooooo last wednesday or somethin, but are we sure Lizzie's name is turner in the next one??? is that on every cast list, or just one? is it a mistake, or something put up to get everyone all excited? because if it were real and true, that would mean she and will would already be married or somethin at the start of the film. unless she is just his sis, which would make all those kissy moments real wierd...

katelovespirate
PS sweet kat, yes i meant your script, i love it, and my summer job is the best in the world, i answer phones and they hardly ring, so i get to be super dorky and hash out the details of my fav. movie. once uni starts again i will have to cut back... sad

sweet_kat22
You got almost the same job as me, I do Phone surveys blah. I also have to sell window cleaning once and a while. Damn hard job I say. Even if it is only for 4 or 5 hours. You think phones are fun lol. I think its just damn boring and bores the hell out of your mind you start singing "Flinstons meet the flinstones,... " The lady beside me was singing that and I totally understood how she felt lol.

Wait her last name is Turner in the cast list? Damnit that ruins everything if their not going for the brother sister thing.

Nah its still Swann looky here :

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0449088/

LovelyOne
Originally posted by sweet_kat22
Sorry, I miss half the stuff on here because of work and it is REALLY hard to keep up with all of it so I just read the last few posts. Go get a job you land lovers stick out tongue Just kidding.

Actually you just picked up on something thats really interesting. It might be Jones who convinces Will to change after he has lost all he holds dear like Liz and even his Father. It reminded me of Anikin in star wars losing his mother and everything he held dear..and Darth Sidius converts him.

PotC is pretty much mirroring alot of what happens in the star wars saga lol. especially the Hans Solo/ Layah thing laughing out loud

fanatics of star wars who have watched the latest PotC are saying that its basically a carbon copy of episode 5... but involving pirates laughing out loud

which means...Jack/Will brother and sister?

sweet_kat22
You mean Liz and Will not Jack and Will hehehehe

rumrunner
Hey, i think i can't agree with the hypothesis of Liz becoming a pirate because, though she is obssesed with piracy, she has a big sense of moral and ,even though she is attracted to Jack, i believe she wants to find someone that loves her truly and who marries her... and Jack... well.. he is a pirate sad How much freedom its to much freedom for the lady? She will stay by his side, she 'll be one of his girls? .... no.., i'm sorry i cant see it ---> PERSUADE ME ! hehe

2 argument--->> it's Disney!! T_T i don't think she'll end with Jack, unfortunately sad sad

tia dalma
hey, i found out that jack is found in this sandy place full of crabs(davy jone's locker). will, liz and barbossa go to the orient and meet a pirate called sao feng. they get a ship(more like a shipwreck) called hai peng. they sail off the edge of the world to find jack. somewhere along the line liz is kidnapped by sao feng.

P.S. hey stop me if i'm wrong, i'm just spitballing here but isn't this the same story happening again. will, liz, jack--davy, his ex fiance, and whoeva she ran of wit.
will was set to marry liz, davy was set to marry his fiance. both women have fallen in love wit another man.

P.P.S. if liz's dad is killed she would totally have to stay wit jack coz her life in port royal is over. but will jack take her bac i mean she did chain him to his ship?

willofthewisp
I know I'm new here, but I've been reading, and I just had to share my thoughts. I'm not convinced of Liz/Jack or Liz/Will, just because I think the directors/writers have set us up for that. It surprises me that everyone assumed she would go for Jack in the first one. I thought he was the comic relief, sexy comic relief, but comic relief. The first one, in fact, seems to make it quite clear Will and Liz are the couple and Jack is more of a mentor to both of them, a teacher of "the pirate ways" to Will and as a confidante to Liz since it's her that he shares his deep feelings about what the Pearl means to him.
But in the second movie, they are apart and yeah, Will did kind of forget about her, and yeah, Jack can make any girl hot under the collar. And yes, I go nuts every time I see Liz lean in for a second kiss, but I think the big thing is the compass.
1. In the first movie, Norrington just notes it never points north, Jack wisely doesn't say anything. The first movie probably has the compass point towards the Pearl (I always thought Jack's leading lady was the Pearl)
2. In the second movie, Jack uses it and even asks himself "what do I really want?" I just feel that if the movie was going to imply without question that he was falling for Liz, he would have considered it was pointing to her. She wasn't technically married and he's a pirate, he could just go after her if he wanted her bad enough then.
3. True, she is the only one he lets in on the secret of the compass. I like that she is the one he is the most straight with.
4. Liz uses the compass and points in the direction of Jack...but they both assume it is the direction of the chest, and this could very well be.
5. Liz uses it again and sees it pointing to Jack. But, this is shortly after their famous conversation and I think it points to him to show what she really wants...to be a pirate. I think when they were on the island in the first one, she took seriously how much he loved his freedom and wanted something like it. He represents what she wants to be.
6. Liz uses it again and it seems to point to him, but he tells her she is sitting on the chest. I don't think he would have thought that unless it really was the chest he wanted most.

katelovespirate
yeah that bit of the film always confuses me- how he knows the compass is pointing to the chest and not Liz when he has been so confused the whole film. maybe he was trying to play it off that it wasnt pointing to Lizzie and the chest happened to be there.
when it comes down to it, Jack's life is really at stake, and he knows it. at that point in the film, i guess his own life comes first.

MegaStarr25
Originally posted by katelovespirate
yeah that bit of the film always confuses me- how he knows the compass is pointing to the chest and not Liz when he has been so confused the whole film. maybe he was trying to play it off that it wasnt pointing to Lizzie and the chest happened to be there.
when it comes down to it, Jack's life is really at stake, and he knows it. at that point in the film, i guess his own life comes first.

I don't know if I agree with you about that, what I think is, since up until then the compass never pointed at just one thing, maybe Jack wanted Elizabeth and the chest and when she was sitting on top of it, the arrow was pointing at her and the chest. I thought of that when I was thinking, why, at that moment, did the arrow decide to point at one place. What I want to know is why Jack decided to go back to the ship at the end of the movie after he looked at the compass. Any ideas? Also I think that Jack shouldn't be dead, he and Will should become best friends, and they should form an "I hate Elizabeth" club. I'm just kidding, I think that Elizabeth should choose Jack, but knowing Disney they'll put Will and Elizabeth together. But you know I think Jack could handle Will and Elizabeth being together, better than Will could handle Elizabeth and Jack being together. But I still want Elizabeth and Jack to be together.

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