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Christianity does not recognize Mohammad as a prophet, however, I believe he was spoken to by the angel Gabriel to teach the arabs about god. He had lived in a polytheistic community so the likelyhood of him imagining this stuff up himself is very unlikely, especially when Gabriel is a figure also found in the bible. So assuming he was divinely inspired, does this make him a prophet? What do you think the criteria are for being a prophet? Does anyoen know the official christian stance on this issue?

I've stated that the Mormons believe he was inspired by God. Given this he could be considered a prophet in the sense that he gained divine guidance for the betterment of his people. Was everything he stated from God? Not necessarily. Prophets are people that from time to time converse with, or are given information from, God or one of his messengers not of this world. Given this, prophets are people that receive a more direct line of communication from deity than most people are capable of.

He was also not isolated from the Jewish or Christian religions.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
He was also not isolated from the Jewish or Christian religions.

However, he was the onyl one in his group or settlement to have had this vision and no oen else in that group had any influence from judaism oir christianity. He was as well as his group isolated and if judaism and christianity had come, they would have spread there beliefs among that group, and he preached things that greatly differ teachings of christianity and judaism.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
However, he was the onyl one in his group or settlement to have had this vision and no oen else in that group had any influence from judaism oir christianity. He was as well as his group isolated and if judaism and christianity had come, they would have spread there beliefs among that group, and he preached things that greatly differ teachings of christianity and judaism.

I saw a documentary about him (although I didn't watch all of the show) and that show gave me the impression that there was a lot of trade with the west. And along with goods came ideas.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
Christianity does not recognize Mohammad as a prophet, however, I believe he was spoken to by the angel Gabriel to teach the arabs about god. He had lived in a polytheistic community so the likelyhood of him imagining this stuff up himself is very unlikely, especially when Gabriel is a figure also found in the bible. So assuming he was divinely inspired, does this make him a prophet? What do you think the criteria are for being a prophet? Does anyoen know the official christian stance on this issue?

A few small issues:

1. Its not difficult to jump from polytheism to thesim.
2. Muhammad was not sent to teach arabs. He has had global influence...and a very dtrong one at that.

Assuming all this religious stuff is true, which imo its not...since Muhammad was spoken to by Gabriel is would be a prophet...just like Jesus is a prophet in Islam.

Muhammad is special becuse he was the "final prophet" and was given the Qu'ran by God.

Mainstream Chirstianity does not accept Muhammad as a prophet. Likely do to a combination of:
1. They alread had a messiah...they didnt need ant more prophets.
2. They alread had a holy book...they didn't need another.
3. Christianity was already indoctrinated and was not open to any further modifications from outside itself.
4. Muhammad was the cornerstone of a competing religion..why incorporate what was probably percieved as "blasphemy"
5. Im sure racism also played a role.

Nope, Ordinary man, as was Jesus and any other so-called prophet.

well, like nearly all religious prophets, probably just an ordinary guy with epilepsy

Originally posted by Alliance

Mainstream Chirstianity does not accept Muhammad as a prophet. Likely do to a combination of:
1. They alread had a messiah...they didnt need ant more prophets.
2. They alread had a holy book...they didn't need another.
3. Christianity was already indoctrinated and was not open to any further modifications from outside itself.
4. Muhammad was the cornerstone of a competing religion..why incorporate what was probably percieved as "blasphemy"
5. Im sure racism also played a role.
You make some good points. However, it important to note that the Arabs are the descendants of Ishmael not Isaac. The Hebrews (Jews) are descended from Isaac. The belief of the Jews is that they God's chosen people. The Messiah must be a Jew and the descendants of Ishmael are never to have authority over the Jews. I believe that Mohammed preached peace and other good things. I believe that he given this task by God (therefore, Jesus is considered a prophet in Islam). However, I do not believe that God intended Mohammed's teachings for the Jews or Christians because everything had already been fulfilled and shown to them by Jesus. This my take on the whole situation.

ANyone can be a prophet who spread the god's word. Islam and CHristianity along with Judaism spring from Abrahamaic faith.

Originally posted by Alliance
A few small issues:

Muhammad is special becuse he was the "final prophet" and was given the Qu'ran by God.




God did no such thing. God did NOT give Muhammad the Qu'ran, this is false information. Moreover, God (YHWH) and Allah are NOT the same and they are NOT different terms of referring to the same God.

Yo Ignoramus Maximus, shut up. If u cant add to the discussion then dont speak. And saying that everything that everyone says( which is not what you were brainwashed to think) is wrong IS NOT adding to the discussion. GO do that in OTF or something.

I think that Muhammed may have been a prophet of god. If not, then he was an ordinary man with extraordinary thinking and ideas.

From a religious point of view, he may have been a prophet, well at least from the hindu stand point. Cause the two most recent incarnations of god was Buddha and Jesus. To me they all play the same role, they tried to get people to follow a path to better living, to be at peace with everything, to embrace diversity.......... something that people still have a problem doing and may always do, unfortunately.

Originally posted by Alliance
1. They alread had a messiah...they didnt need ant more prophets.

I thought that I'd point out the fallacy of this for Christians that claim this is true.

1. What happened to Paul as impetus for his conversion? Acts 9 describes Paul having Christ speak to him. God speaking to a specific man is something that defines a prophet.

2. Revelations. Um, prophecy?

3. Peter. Acts 10 describes Peter speaking with an angel. Another act that would define him as a prophet.

Many Christians will wave aside these as just a part of being an apostle. But Paul was not an apostle, he was a unbeliever attacking Christianity at the time of this occurrence. Thus prophets are shown to exist following Christ.

Originally posted by Nellinator
However, it important to note that the Arabs are the descendants of Ishmael not Isaac. The Hebrews (Jews) are descended from Isaac. The belief of the Jews is that they God's chosen people. The Messiah must be a Jew and the descendants of Ishmael are never to have authority over the Jews.

I dont know if you can prove who descended from who. YOu cant have that sourt of change in a 6,000 year history. And the Bible never says who the chinese and native americans descended from. Do they just nto exist? (please dont say Adam and Eve, i'm looking for sepecifics)

Muhammad is not the messiah if I am correct? He is simply the final and greatest prophet. (is that also the messiah???)

But Muhammad was a military man. That makes him
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God did no such thing. God did NOT give Muhammad the Qu'ran, this is false information. Moreover, God (YHWH) and Allah are NOT the same and they are NOT different terms of referring to the same God.
Besides. As a christian you worship Jehova. YWHW, Jehova, and Allah are EL MISMO!
Originally posted by fini
Yo Ignoramus Maximus, shut up.
A little harsh, but fyi proper Roman citizens had three names. Supremus Ignoramus Maximus is more appropriate
Originally posted by Regret
Thus prophets are shown to exist following Christ.
Well, maybe the definitnon of prohpet is more complex than that?
They are of Jesus's era. I;ever heard of them being termed as prophets...Jesus apparentyl didn't want competition...or mayby its just Mormonism and its poly-prophetism

Muhammad was no ordinary man.

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
Christianity does not recognize Mohammad as a prophet, however, I believe he was spoken to by the angel Gabriel to teach the arabs about god. He had lived in a polytheistic community so the likelyhood of him imagining this stuff up himself is very unlikely, especially when Gabriel is a figure also found in the bible. So assuming he was divinely inspired, does this make him a prophet? What do you think the criteria are for being a prophet? Does anyoen know the official christian stance on this issue?

Gabriel was mentioned in both Christianity and Judaism, however both of these religions (and particularly Judaism) were VERY well known in the Arabia at the time.

Mohammad was a son of a merchant, who traveled places dominated by Christians and Jews, and the stories of the Abraham, prophets, Gabriel, and one God were very well known.

Qur'an recognises Jesus and Moses as prophets.

I believe he was spoken to by an Angel in cave, as much as I believe that Moses was spoken to by a burning bush, and that Jesus was born of a virgin. In another words, it is not impossible, but extremely unlikely.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Gabriel was mentioned in both Christianity and Judaism, however both of these religions (and particularly Judaism) were VERY well known in the Arabia at the time.

Mohammad was a son of a merchant, who traveled places dominated by Christians and Jews, and the stories of the Abraham, prophets, Gabriel, and one God were very well known.

Qur'an recognises Jesus and Moses as prophets.

I believe he was spoken to by an Angel in cave, as much as I believe that Moses was spoken to by a burning bush, and that Jesus was born of a virgin. In another words, it is not impossible, but extremely unlikely.

I absolutely agree....in case someone was wondering what I thought.

Originally posted by Alliance
Well, maybe the definitnon of prohpet is more complex than that?
They are of Jesus's era. I;ever heard of them being termed as prophets...Jesus apparentyl didn't want competition...or mayby its just Mormonism and its poly-prophetism

They weren't termed as such, but they did occur following his death, resurrection, and ascension. The occurrences are the same as what defines a prophet pre-Christ, as far as Biblical accounts go. There is no Biblical evidence that supports these occurrences yet denies future occurrences that would be similar. Christian denial of modern prophets is without support.

Unless you believe that God doest exist or talks to no one.

Originally posted by Alliance
Unless you believe that God doest exist or talks to no one.

Well, yes, but then the question is moot.

MOOT!

IIRC, Muhammad had a Nestorian Christian uncle.

Plus, angels could be found in both Persian and Egyptian religions, not just in Judaism and Christianity.

Muhammad, for me, is Mani (the founder of Manicheanism) version 2.0 mainly because they respect and acknowledge old religions to gain converts into their new religion.

Originally posted by fini
Yo Ignoramus Maximus, shut up. If u cant add to the discussion then dont speak. And saying that everything that everyone says( which is not what you were brainwashed to think) is wrong IS NOT adding to the discussion. GO do that in OTF or something.

I think that Muhammed may have been a prophet of god. If not, then he was an ordinary man with extraordinary thinking and ideas.

From a religious point of view, he may have been a prophet, well at least from the hindu stand point. Cause the two most recent incarnations of god was Buddha and Jesus. To me they all play the same role, they tried to get people to follow a path to better living, to be at peace with everything, to embrace diversity.......... something that people still have a problem doing and may always do, unfortunately.

Buddah was JUST a man. ONLY Jesus the Christ is God incarnate (i.e., in the flesh).

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Buddah was JUST a man. ONLY Jesus the Christ is God incarnate (i.e., in the flesh).

I hate to burst your bubble but Jesus was only a MAN to.

Originally posted by Roland
I hate to burst your bubble but Jesus was only a MAN to.

That's NOT what the Bible--God's Word--reveals about Jesus the Christ. The Bible reveals that Jesus pre-existed all things including the universe before becoming flesh. You see, Jesus' pre-incarnate Name if you would was, the "WORD." The holy Bible reveals that Jesus was in the Beginning with God and at the same time was/is God. Buddah on the other hand was not their in the beginning with God and Buddah himself is NOT God. No bubble bursted by the way.

Let's take a look at some other passages referring to my dearly beloved Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ.

Isaiah 9:6-7
6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Did you catch that? Jesus' Name will be called...Mighty God, Everlasting Father. Wow, Jesus and His Father are one. But not one Person, just one God. Let's move on to more breathtaking Scripture verses that reveal just who Jesus is (because He is more than just a man).

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

I tried to tell you all just Who Jesus REALLY is, let the Truth/Word of God sink down into your hearing and then your heart.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That's NOT what the Bible--God's Word--reveals about Jesus the Christ.

The Bible is just a BOOK written by MEN who claimed that GOD told them these things. The Bible is such a contradiction in and of instelf that it isn't even funny. The Bible is nowhere near to being the WORD(S) of God.

Originally posted by Roland
The Bible is just a BOOK written by MEN who claimed that GOD told them these things. The Bible is such a contradiction in and of instelf that it isn't even funny. The Bible is nowhere near to being the WORD(S) of God.


I USED to think that too. But then the Lord revealed to me that the Bible IS HIS WORD.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I USED to think that too. But then the Lord revealed to me that the Bible IS HIS WORD.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

In the quote above, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God." Pretty much proves that the Bible is NOT his word.

PEOPLE get inspired by many things, I could be inspired by a squirrel and write a huge book about the squirrel, but does that make the book the squirrel's words?

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Lets break this baby down . . . .


The Bible is correct because its "inspired by God."

The Bible is "inspired by God" because thats what is written in 2 Timothy 3:16.

2 Timothy 3:16 is correct because . . . . what? Because its "inspired by God"? But isnt that we are trying to prove with 2 Timothy 3:16? Isnt this an example of circular reasoning?

Originally posted by Templares
Muhammad, for me, is Mani (the founder of Manicheanism) version 2.0 mainly because they respect and acknowledge old religions to gain converts into their new religion.

I always felt that Mani was extremely unlucky with his religion. Judging by the the nature of religions that flourished at the time the Manichean's should have done well, especially as it had so many parts inspired by other religions - it was just unfortunate I guess there was a change of rulers in Persia.

I suspect, if it had been given a little more time to take route the Manichean's might have become a counter weight to Christianity early on. Of course, if the Manichean's had done better, one can only wonder what implications that might have had on Islam.

Originally posted by Roland
In the quote above, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God." Pretty much proves that the Bible is NOT his word.

PEOPLE get inspired by many things, I could be inspired by a squirrel and write a huge book about the squirrel, but does that make the book the squirrel's words?

I think you should write a book about a squirrel, it might become a number one best seller!

Originally posted by Templares
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Lets break this baby down . . . .


The Bible is correct because its "inspired by God."

The Bible is "inspired by God" because thats what is written in 2 Timothy 3:16.

2 Timothy 3:16 is correct because . . . . what? Because its "inspired by God"? But isnt that we are trying to prove with 2 Timothy 3:16? Isnt this an example of circular reasoning?


The Bible IS NOT inspired of God, it is GIVEN by inspiration of God. There is a difference. You see, there are things that are written that God didn't inspire. For example, the serpent (satan) told Eve that she would not surely die. God didn't inspire the devil to say that. But the record OF WHAT the devil said to Eve IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD.

Can you see the difference?

What is recorded as it happened or unfolded is given by inspiration of God NOT WHAT HAPPENED OR WHAT WAS SAID IN EVERY INSTANCE per se is what is given by inspiration of God.

I probably confused you all. Sorry.

Sure, sure . . . . but it really doesnt change anything. The keyword in this argument is the adjective CORRECT.

We should believe the Bible because its CORRECT.

The Bible is CORRECT because its "given by inspiration of God."

The Bible is "given by inspiration of God" because thats what is written in 2 Timothy 3:16.

2 Timothy 3:16 is CORRECT because . . . . what? Because its "given by inspiration of God"? But isnt that we are trying to prove with 2 Timothy 3:16? Isnt this an example of circular reasoning?

Yes, it still is circular reasoning.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The Bible IS NOT inspired of God, it is GIVEN by inspiration of God. There is a difference. You see, there are things that are written that God didn't inspire. For example, the serpent (satan) told Eve that she would not surely die. God didn't inspire the devil to say that. But the record OF WHAT the devil said to Eve IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD.

Can you see the difference?

What is recorded as it happened or unfolded is given by inspiration of God NOT WHAT HAPPENED OR WHAT WAS SAID IN EVERY INSTANCE per se is what is given by inspiration of God.

I probably confused you all. Sorry.

Yes I can tell the difference; however, it sounds like rationalization to me.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes I can tell the difference; however, it sounds like rationalization to me.

Well, then if it walks like a...talks like a...and sounds like a...then it probably is a...uh, whatever you just said.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Well, then if it walks like a...talks like a...and sounds like a...then it probably is a...uh, whatever you just said.

walks like a(n) intolerant ****...etc etc....probably is

God...probably has more friends than any other imaginary friend that ever didn't exist

Originally posted by jaden101
walks like a(n) intolerant ****...etc etc....probably is

God...probably has more friends than any other imaginary friend that ever didn't exist

YOU sound bitter.

Why are you so bitter and mad at the world?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I think you should write a book about a squirrel, it might become a number one best seller!

The King James Squirrel Bible v 100.0

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
YOU sound bitter.

Why are you so bitter and mad at the world?

that would be you being judgemental again...

despair would be more accurate...i despair at how in the modern enlightened age...blind fools like you still insist on pressing their nonsensical beliefs on other whether they want them or not

you truely are a modern day missionary...trying to force the godless heathens and pagan swine into your own cultist beliefs

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Well, then if it walks like a...talks like a...and sounds like a...then it probably is a...uh, whatever you just said.


Or it could just be your illusion. We humans can be fooled so easily.

Everytime i visit this forum...I feel like I'm in a giant time loop.

Originally posted by crazy
You read that stupid ignorant book Islamic invasion and you think you know something about Islam, Allah is the same term as god, that book has false information and also misquotes Surahs. Nice try though. I guess your Lord Jesus Christ and God wanted you to read a book that spews bullshit

I have not read Islamic Invasion. You don't see me cussing, ranting, raving and assuming that you read a book without FIRST asking you if you read it. Why are you so mad at the world and bitter?

Originally posted by jaden101
that would be you being judgemental again...

despair would be more accurate...i despair at how in the modern enlightened age...blind fools like you still insist on pressing their nonsensical beliefs on other whether they want them or not

you truely are a modern day missionary...trying to force the godless heathens and pagan swine into your own cultist beliefs

Like I said you sound depressed and bitter. There is hope for you though.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Like I said you sound depressed and bitter. There is hope for you though.

I think he sounds more impassioned and adversarial. Nothing in that post really sounded depressed.

Maybe he seems bitter because he's living in reality.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I have not read Islamic Invasion. You don't see me cussing, ranting, raving and assuming that you read a book without FIRST asking you if you read it. Why are you so mad at the world and bitter?

Because you posted that stupid comic which was BASED on the book Islamic Invasion so I was not so far off assuming you had read it. It did seem like you believed all that propaganda bull. You know what I was pissed, I love the fact that means that I am mad at the world, I just see stupidity and point it out, I do not need to sugarcoat it.

Originally posted by Alliance
Everytime i visit this forum...I feel like I'm in a giant time loop.

I'm surprised JiA is still here, still preaching, when it's obvious nothing's happening. I didn't expect him to realise that he has no facts, but at least understand the futility of attempting conversion over the internet.

Originally posted by Trickster
I'm surprised JiA is still here, still preaching, when it's obvious nothing's happening. I didn't expect him to realise that he has no facts, but at least understand the futility of attempting conversion over the internet.

Thats his biggest problem, he doesn't see it as conversion. He says that all he is doing is telling the word of God, not trying to convert us.

I havn't been here long but from reading his posts IMO he should just realise that whenever he posts, no matter how entertaining or idiotic it might be to some of us, it isn't going to make us change into die hard Christians.

I do think though that he is very prejudistic and judgemental, he might not mean to be but he comes off that way. Mainly that he has the nerve to call someone an Antichrist and say we are lost just because we all don't have the same views that he does.

Originally posted by Roland
Thats his biggest problem, he doesn't see it as conversion. He says that all he is doing is telling the word of God, not trying to convert us.

I havn't been here long but from reading his posts IMO he should just realise that whenever he posts, no matter how entertaining or idiotic it might be to some of us, it isn't going to make us change into die hard Christians.

I do think though that he is very prejudistic and judgemental, he might not mean to be but he comes off that way. Mainly that he has the nerve to call someone an Antichrist and say we are lost just because we all don't have the same views that he does.

He'll be on his way out soon, he's attacking Ushgarak now. You don't attack a mod when they tell you you're crossing the line.

Originally posted by Roland
Thats his biggest problem, he doesn't see it as conversion. He says that all he is doing is telling the word of God, not trying to convert us.

I havn't been here long but from reading his posts IMO he should just realise that whenever he posts, no matter how entertaining or idiotic it might be to some of us, it isn't going to make us change into die hard Christians.

I do think though that he is very prejudistic and judgemental, he might not mean to be but he comes off that way. Mainly that he has the nerve to call someone an Antichrist and say we are lost just because we all don't have the same views that he does.

I didn't call anyone an antichrist--GOD DID.

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.

Originally posted by Regret
He'll be on his way out soon, he's attacking Ushgarak now. You don't attack a mod when they tell you you're crossing the line.

How true.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I didn't call anyone an antichrist--GOD DID.

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.

But I don't think God gave you the right to go around declaring who is or is not antichrist, only the right to know it.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I didn't call anyone an antichrist--GOD DID.

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.

GOD didn't call anyone an antichrist. Some guy who helped write the contradiction we like to call The Bible said those people are antichrists.

YOU actually CALLED debbiejo an antichrist b/c she didn't agree with your views, like I said. I'm also sure there are more people than just me who have read that post.

Originally posted by Roland
GOD didn't call anyone an antichrist. Some guy who helped write the contradiction we like to call The Bible said those people are antichrists.

YOU actually CALLED debbiejo an antichrist b/c she didn't agree with your views, like I said. I'm also sure there are more people than just me who have read that post.

I have no views, my views are whatever the Word says. So if you disagree with the Word, then you are disagreeing with me. Debbiejo's statements about God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, the Bible, Hell, and so forth BLATANTLY CONTRADICTED the Bible. God gave us a way to discern those types of people. So based on the WORDS that came out of her own mouth as it were on paper I was able to call her an antichrist.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I have no views, my views are whatever the Word says. So if you disagree with the Word, then you are disagreeing with me. Debbiejo's statements about God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, the Bible, Hell, and so forth BLATANTLY CONTRADICTED the Bible. God gave us a way to discern those types of people. So based on the WORDS that came out of her own mouth as it were on paper I was able to call her an antichrist.

Let me get this straight.

1. You have no views.
2. You only follow what some BOOK says.
3. You call people antichrists and blasphemous then justify it by saying they disagreed with you.

One question.

Are you a f*cking robot?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I have no views, my views are whatever the Word says. So if you disagree with the Word, then you are disagreeing with me. Debbiejo's statements about God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, the Bible, Hell, and so forth BLATANTLY CONTRADICTED the Bible. God gave us a way to discern those types of people. So based on the WORDS that came out of her own mouth as it were on paper I was able to call her an antichrist. If you have no views, stop posting here.

Originally posted by Roland


3. You call people antichrists and blasphemous then justify it by saying they disagreed with you.

No, Roland I said disagreed with THE WORD OF GOD not me . What about that don't you understand?

No. You are not god. YOu do not have a monopoly on "his" word.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I have no views, my views are whatever the Word says. So if you disagree with the Word, then you are disagreeing with me.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No, Roland I said disagreed with THE WORD OF GOD not me . What about that don't you understand?

Do you even notice that you are contradicting yourself or does it just fly right over your head?

JIA you never really explained why you think the Bible is the word of god, you used circular reasoning but that did not make sense. Why don't you speak for yourself for once, I mean god did give us free will, he did not make us robots like you seem to be.

Originally posted by Roland
Now look at this quote, do you even notice that you are contradicting yourself or does it just fly right over your head?

I am not here to post MY VIEWS. Since day one I have been SPEAKING GOD'S WORDS--not my own. That is why there is so much controversy.

No. You are delusional.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I am not here to post MY VIEWS. Since day one I have been SPEAKING GOD'S WORDS--not my own. That is why there is so much controversy.

I don't believe in God or any relegion but I'm sure if it had to choose someone in the world to speak its so called WORDS that it wouldn't choose a complete idiot like yourself.

Never unmderestimate the intelligence of divind beings

Originally posted by Roland
I don't believe in God or any relegion but I'm sure if he had to choose someone in the world to speak his so called WORDS that he wouldn't choose a complete idiot like yourself.

Where is Ushgarak when you need him? People can insult other people with demeaning names and NOT ONCE GET A MODERATOR to say anything. But SPEAK THE TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD and all h-e double hockey sticks breaks loose.

I am speaking the truth.

Oh and BTW you can drop the whole I AM SPEAKING THE TRUTH act b/c it isn't suiting you very well.

You calling people liars without foundation and then also condemning people to Hell and attacking the very foundations of what they are as evil and sinful- and then worse, trying to worm out of it by saying it is not you saying it, it is God (ignoring two factors- first, that repeating a slander is as bad as making it, and secondly, that as you yourself have said you are not interested in proving or backing anything you say, then no-one actually believes you when you say it is God) is worse than anything coming back at you.

You are giving out insults- that you do not see them as insults is of no consequence- so you had better expect some back.

Originally posted by Roland
I am speaking the truth.

Oh and BTW you can drop the whole I AM SPEAKING THE TRUTH act b/c it isn't suiting you very well.

Does this advice apply to you as well? You said the SAME thing.

*cough* I was mocking you. *cough*

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You calling people liars without foundation and then also condemning people to Hell and attacking the very foundations of what they are as evil and sinful- and then worse, trying to worm out of it by saying it is not you saying it, it is God (ignoring two factors- first, that repeating a slander is as bad as making it, and secondly, that as you yourself have said you are not interested in proving or backing anything you say, then no-one actually believes you when you say it is God) is worse than anything coming back at you.

You are giving out insults- that you do not see them as insults is of no consequence- so you had better expect some back.

How many times do I have to WRITE that my foundation is the Bible. I am simply saying what the Bible says, the standard of God's Word. I am not condemning anyone. I never called anyone a "liar." I support what I write BY/WITH the Bible--I don't need any other thing. If I did then God would have provided it.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You calling people liars without foundation and then also condemning people to Hell and attacking the very foundations of what they are as evil and sinful- and then worse, trying to worm out of it by saying it is not you saying it, it is God (ignoring two factors- first, that repeating a slander is as bad as making it, and secondly, that as you yourself have said you are not interested in proving or backing anything you say, then no-one actually believes you when you say it is God) is worse than anything coming back at you.

You are giving out insults- that you do not see them as insults is of no consequence- so you had better expect some back.

This is your answer as to why you are not doing your job? If I called these people some of the things that they have called me you would have a conniption fit.

You don't condemn anyone?

Well then why when we disagree with your words, oh excuse me GOD'S words, you call us blasphemous and antichrists?

Just wondering.

Again, no-one cares when you say it is God or the Bible. YOU are the one posting such accusations here, not God, not the Bible- you. Hence, you must pay the consequences to it. Your protests, again, are of no interest to anyone, they are neither defence or excuse. What is more, I repeat, any justification you make will be ignored because you are not interested in backing or proving anything yuo say, as you yourself admitted.

Write it a billion times- no difference. You are making the comments, and by saying you have never calkled anyone a liar, when you directly and verifiably have, makes you a lair yourself.

Originally posted by Roland
You don't condemn anyone?

Well then why when we disagree with your words, oh excuse me GOD'S words, you call us blasphemous and antichrists?

Just wondering.

Because that is what the WORD OF GOD SAYS THEY ARE. Am I talking to rational, intelligent people? I think that I am.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
This is your answer as to why you are not doing your job? If I called these people some of the things that they have called me you would have a conniption fit.

Once more, your opinion about how I am doing my job is not important. But once more, arguing with moderators is a one-way ticket out of here. I am doing my job- you just don't like it.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Because that is what the WORD OF GOD SAYS THEY ARE. Am I talking to rational, intelligent people? I think that I am.

Like Ushgarak said we don't buy your whole excuse that you call people these things just because The Bible says it.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Once more, your opinion about how I am doing my job is not important. But once more, arguing with moderators is a one-way ticket out of here. I am doing my job- you just don't like it.

What I don't appreciate is the hypocrisy.

That exists only in your head because you do not like being called out.

Whatever, this argument is pointless. Get back on topic, everyone.

I think I am going to start my own forum.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I think I am going to start my own forum.

And?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I think I am going to start my own forum.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
And?

And he won't let any of us join. cry

darn

Originally posted by Darth Jello
well, like nearly all religious prophets, probably just an ordinary guy with epilepsy

No,Ur the 1 with epilepsy u lil....

He was referring to anyone who claims to be a prophet.

Ok, here's my question for this thread.

Muslims say that Mohamad was the last prophet. Is there something in the Q'uran that says that he was? Or is it just tradition? I know it's one of the "five pillars of Islam", but where did it come from? before or after his death/ascension?

common sources for divine inspiration among religious founders of any and all faiths-epilepsy, ergot, heatstroke, peyote, wormwood, psylocibin, head trauma, personal gain (ie. sun myung moon, L. Ron Hubbard).
that's all i meant.

Originally posted by maham
No,Ur the 1 with epilepsy u lil....

In the Hadiths, it is mentioned that Muhammad suffered from epilepsy and hallucinations. Even Aisha said that he used to imagine things -





^^ his follower and wife said he was imagining things...



Either way, much like other prophets, there is nothing, but their word which was supposed to convinve the rest of us they are prophets.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
In the Hadiths, it is mentioned that Muhammad suffered from epilepsy and hallucinations. Even Aisha said that he used to imagine things -







^^ his follower and wife said he was imagining things...



Either way, much like other prophets, there is nothing, but their word which was supposed to convinve the rest of us they are prophets.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1031/1031_01.asp?wpc=1031_01.asp&wpp=a (Fact or Fiction?)

Originally posted by Roland
And he won't let any of us join. cry

Sure I would! I love all of ya'll. Just because I am very direct and confident that doesn't mean that I am a mean person.

No. It doesn't. But that doesnt change facts.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Sure I would! I love all of ya'll. Just because I am very direct and confident that doesn't mean that I am a mean person.

you clearly find it quite acceptable to come into a thread devoted to the beliefs on another religion and basically denounce it all as heresy and lies

you are aware, surely, of how offensive that is to a religion...that i may remind, has a far larger actively practicing population than christianity does

while there are more people who consider themselves christian...it's undeniable that christianity is on a slippery slope... with fewer and fewer active christians year on year

i believe the only country where christianity is increasing is the former soviet union

where as islam is growing at a phenomenal rate

looks like your beliefs will be going the way of the roman, greek and norse Gods before long

Originally posted by Templares
IIRC, Muhammad had a Nestorian Christian uncle.

Plus, angels could be found in both Persian and Egyptian religions, not just in Judaism and Christianity.

Muhammad, for me, is Mani (the founder of Manicheanism) version 2.0 mainly because they respect and acknowledge old religions to gain converts into their new religion.
Wrong! There were Christians n Jews in Arabia,but The Holy Prophet ( sallulahu alaihi wasallum) did not kno how 2 read n write.He(PBUH) found The God Himself.The ppl of Arabia (esp. Mecca) were idol worshippers.But the Holy Prophet (PBUH) never worshipped them.He (PBUH) used 2 go 2 a high mount n pray 2 God. After He (PBUH) declared Prophethood,the jews,just 4 fun,used 2 tell the locals 2 ask the Prophet (PBUH) abt the incidents that were stated in their scriptures 2 find out if He (PBUH) actually recieves divine guidance.N since He(PBUH) did,he used 2 tell them that.But since that was just 2 tease Him,they never blieved.

Hey, Maham!!!

Originally posted by docb77
Ok, here's my question for this thread.

Muslims say that Mohamad was the last prophet. Is there something in the Q'uran that says that he was? Or is it just tradition? I know it's one of the "five pillars of Islam", but where did it come from? before or after his death/ascension?

Originally posted by Nellinator
You make some good points. However, it important to note that the Arabs are the descendants of Ishmael not Isaac. The Hebrews (Jews) are descended from Isaac. The belief of the Jews is that they God's chosen people. The Messiah must be a Jew and the descendants of Ishmael are never to have authority over the Jews. I believe that Mohammed preached peace and other good things. I believe that he given this task by God (therefore, Jesus is considered a prophet in Islam). However, I do not believe that God intended Mohammed's teachings for the Jews or Christians because everything had already been fulfilled and shown to them by Jesus. This my take on the whole situation.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1019/1019_01.asp

This should help illustrate this post.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1019/1019_01.asp

This should help illustrate this post.

Mohammed was just a man.

Originally posted by maham
Wrong! There were Christians n Jews in Arabia,but The Holy Prophet ( sallulahu alaihi wasallum) did not kno how 2 read n write.He(PBUH) found The God Himself.The ppl of Arabia (esp. Mecca) were idol worshippers.But the Holy Prophet (PBUH) never worshipped them.He (PBUH) used 2 go 2 a high mount n pray 2 God. After He (PBUH) declared Prophethood,the jews,just 4 fun,used 2 tell the locals 2 ask the Prophet (PBUH) abt the incidents that were stated in their scriptures 2 find out if He (PBUH) actually recieves divine guidance.N since He(PBUH) did,he used 2 tell them that.But since that was just 2 tease Him,they never blieved.

What the...? Thats all wrong.

Have you not read any history on Muhammad?

Mohammad got the supposed revelation when he was 40! Up until that age, he went to temples and prayed to the Ancient Arabic God's, just like everyone else in his tribe.

He was a son of a Merchant, who came back from the road and told Muhammad stories of Monotheist religions (in those times Judaism and Christianity)

Allah existed in Pagan Arabia as the God of Moon. He had 3 daughters and was a main God of all other Arabian Pagan Gods.
And this is not some dumb anti-islamic propaganda. This is an Archeological finding in Arabia which showed Allah, with (and 365 other names) his 3 daughters sat at the Throne.

Muhammad then abolished any Allah's ''companions'' and told of religion which could appeal to both parties - the Pagans and the Monotheists.

To the Pagans it was said that its the same god they always worshiped, but its just him, and noone else, and to Monotheists he said that its the same ONE god they are worshiping, in hope to unite the both parties.

Remember, monotheists and Pagans...not best of friends.

Allah was a God of Moon, but he was like a main God...much like Zeus or Jupiter or Thor or Ra.

Just like in Christian and Jewish theology there are numerous signs and stories which reflect the pagan stories and religions in today's religion so does Islam.

Ask your Imam why a lot of Jamia's use the cresent moon as a sign on Islam.
A lot fo Islamic countries around the world use the cresent moon in their flag as a sign of Islam.

Allah was a God of Moon.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
What the...? Thats all wrong.

Have you not read any history on Muhammad?

Mohammad got the supposed revelation when he was 40! Up until that age, he went to temples and prayed to the Ancient Arabic God's, just like everyone else in his tribe.

He was a son of a Merchant, who came back from the road and told Muhammad stories of Monotheist religions (in those times Judaism and Christianity)

Allah existed in Pagan Arabia as the God of Moon. He had 3 daughters and was a main God of all other Arabian Pagan Gods.
And this is not some dumb anti-islamic propaganda. This is an Archeological finding in Arabia which showed Allah, with (and 365 other names) his 3 daughters sat at the Throne.

Muhammad then abolished any Allah's ''companions'' and told of religion which could appeal to both parties - the Pagans and the Monotheists.

To the Pagans it was said that its the same god they always worshiped, but its just him, and noone else, and to Monotheists he said that its the same ONE god they are worshiping, in hope to unite the both parties.

Remember, monotheists and Pagans...not best of friends.

Allah was a God of Moon, but he was like a main God...much like Zeus or Jupiter or Thor or Ra.

Just like in Christian and Jewish theology there are numerous signs and stories which reflect the pagan stories and religions in today's religion so does Islam.

Ask your Imam why a lot of Jamia's use the cresent moon as a sign on Islam.
A lot fo Islamic countries around the world use the cresent moon in their flag as a sign of Islam.

Allah was a God of Moon.

Maybe these will shed some light on this:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1104/1104_01.asp (Who Is Allah?)


http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1031/1031_01.asp (Men of Peace)


http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0029/0029_01.asp (The Deceived)

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Maybe these will shed some light on this:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1104/1104_01.asp (Who Is Allah?)


http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1031/1031_01.asp (Men of Peace)


http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0029/0029_01.asp (The Deceived)


Nope, doesn't shed more light. Just makes what was already said more inflammatory.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Maybe these will shed some light on this:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1104/1104_01.asp (Who Is Allah?)


http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1031/1031_01.asp (Men of Peace)


http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0029/0029_01.asp (The Deceived)

chick.com is terrible, extreamly patronising and offencive. It shows propaganda with no bases or grounds.

if a follower of a religion can only fall back on ancient scripture and modern propaganda which bashes other religions in order for validation, that speaks volumes of the quality of those followers.

Originally posted by PVS
if a follower of a religion can only fall back on ancient scripture and modern propaganda which bashes other religions in order for validation, that speaks volumes of the quality of those followers.

Ah, true to the power of 17!

Well, there's 3 indictments against chick tracts. One of which is from a Christian. What does that tell us about biased propaganda?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Maybe these will shed some light on this:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1104/1104_01.asp (Who Is Allah?)


http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1031/1031_01.asp (Men of Peace)


http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0029/0029_01.asp (The Deceived)


Oh my God, i never saw so much bullcrap in my life. Qur'an says that muslim may kill for not believeing in Allah?! Guys that destroyed world trade center are good muslims?! JesusIsAlive, people like you make me sick. You dare to speak about Islam when your own religion has a lot of strange things and it controdicts it self. You don't believe that Jesus is prophet only because you blindly believe in what Bible says, i don't mind, it is your right but do your self a favoure try learning views of both religions before posting some bullcrap comics.
Your religion believes that there is only one God but also says there are God son and God father. Interesting, don't you think? Or how about main idea of Christianity? Jesus died for peoples sins, right? Who created people? God. So God created people and then let them kill himself to expiate their sins so he would let them go to heaven. Makes a lot of sense, right?
I'm not even talking about similarity of Christianity with ancient religion where people worshiped sun. I know in the davinchi code there is a lot of fiction, but there are also some facts you might find interesting, if you don't want to do research by yourself at least read that book. Anyway, i don't care about controdictions now and i don't want to offend christians, sorry if i did, I only suggest you not to believe in every bullcrap you find on sites that were obviously made by christians, and you believe them only because that site speaks well about YOUR God.

Those asinine web-comics are interesting (though yeah, I agree they're utter bs). But the first one is amazingly quick to trace Islam to its pagan roots, thus attempting to debunk it as a credible religion, yet doesn't bother to turn that same microscope on Christianity. Quite the unfortunate double standard, if you ask me.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Mohammed was just a man.

Jesus was just a man.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Maybe these will shed some light on this:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1104/1104_01.asp (Who Is Allah?)


http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1031/1031_01.asp (Men of Peace)


http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0029/0029_01.asp (The Deceived)

You're Hilarious

Originally posted by Sam Z
You dare to speak about Islam

Chick is a stupid site, extreamly stupid.
While I agree with other ''Christian faults'' in your post, this phrase is just stupid.

Why shouldnt he ''dare'' to say something against Islam.

I speak out against Islam. I think Muslims are no different than anyone else, but I strongly disagree with their ideology, and I have the right to say so.

However, chick.com is a propaganda filled, hateful site noone should read or take notice of.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Chick is a stupid site, extreamly stupid.
While I agree with other ''Christian faults'' in your post, this phrase is just stupid.

Why shouldnt he ''dare'' to say something against Islam.

I speak out against Islam. I think Muslims are no different than anyone else, but I strongly disagree with their ideology, and I have the right to say so.

However, chick.com is a propaganda filled, hateful site noone should read or take notice of.

Well i believe I shouldn't have used word "dare" i was just a little bit pissed. Yes, muslims are not different, and as far as I know you speak out against Islam only because you for some reason think that Islam tells lies about your religion and is violant, but it is not and I already explained that and if you want I can give you dozens quotes to prove it. That's why I'm pissed, if i want to learn something about your religion i do research, read special literature and I don't base myself on some sites like you did before and he did now. That site you gave link some time ago was made by one person and can't speak for entire religion.
And JesusIsAlive has only one problem, his views on life never go beyond anything that is written in Bible.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Well i believe I shouldn't have used word "dare" i was just a little bit pissed. Yes, muslims are not different, and as far as I know you speak out against Islam only because you for some reason think that Islam tells lies about your religion and is violant, but it is not and I already explained that and if you want I can give you dozens quotes to prove it. That's why I'm pissed, if i want to learn something about your religion i do research, read special literature and I don't base myself on some sites like you did before and he did now. That site you gave link some time ago was made by one person and can't speak for entire religion.
And JesusIsAlive has only one problem, his views on life never go beyond anything that is written in Bible.

Not really, its more like this.

I don't truly (or shouldn't) care what certain Muslims say about my religion. I believe Muslims are not ''some other group of random people'' either. We do not differ at all, apart from in ideology.

Much like a lot of people here disagree, or would disagree with Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Voodoo...etc, I disagree with the ideology of Islam.

Its nothing against Muslims. On the contrary, actually. I believe people are good, and that stupid things they do, are done in the name of ideology.

Just like West hails to Capitalism, so does East to Islam, or it appears so to me. I disagree, personally with both Ideologies.

And I choose to speak out for it. Nothing personal.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Not really, its more like this.

I don't truly (or shouldn't) care what certain Muslims say about my religion. I believe Muslims are not ''some other group of random people'' either. We do not differ at all, apart from in ideology.

Much like a lot of people here disagree, or would disagree with Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Voodoo...etc, I disagree with the ideology of Islam.

Its nothing against Muslims. On the contrary, actually. I believe people are good, and that stupid things they do, are done in the name of ideology.

Just like West hails to Capitalism, so does East to Islam, or it appears so to me. I disagree, personally with both Ideologies.

And I choose to speak out for it. Nothing personal.

Well, see? I do not hate you, I do not swear, I do not call you islamophob. Disagreeing with Islam is the same as disagreeing with any other religion.

Oh and I'm just curious, what's that written in your signiture?

I am so thrilled that you all are at least reading these tracks.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I am so thrilled that you all are at least reading these tracks.



I have not read any of them, and will not.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I am so thrilled that you all are at least reading these tracks.



morbid curiousity. willful ignorance, lies, stupidity and disinformation are like a disease and its good to know the source of them.

jesus wept

Originally posted by PVS
morbid curiousity. willful ignorance, lies, stupidity and disinformation are like a disease and its good to know the source of them.

jesus wept

*gasp*



http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png

Oh, god...Jack T. Chick. a racist mother****er who can draw on the same level as bazooka joe is still a racist mother****er.


Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I think I am going to start my own forum.

Since you obviously seem to sympathize with the christian identity movement, don't bother.
it's been done-

www.stormfront.org

Originally posted by gordomuchacho
Christianity does not recognize Mohammad as a prophet, however, I believe he was spoken to by the angel Gabriel to teach the arabs about god. He had lived in a polytheistic community so the likelyhood of him imagining this stuff up himself is very unlikely, especially when Gabriel is a figure also found in the bible. So assuming he was divinely inspired, does this make him a prophet? What do you think the criteria are for being a prophet? Does anyoen know the official christian stance on this issue?

The Truth shall set you free.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1104/1104_01.asp (Who Is Allah?)


http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1031/1031_01.asp (Men of Peace)


http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0029/0029_01.asp (The Deceived)

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The Truth shall set you free.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1104/1104_01.asp (Who Is Allah?)


http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1031/1031_01.asp (Men of Peace)


http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0029/0029_01.asp (The Deceived)

Stop posting this bullsh!t.
If you don't know anything about religion, at least don't use that cheap site as sourse of your info. I wish I was there talking to that guy in the first comicbook. He would've ran away crying about his false religion.


Originally posted by Sam Z
Oh my God, i never saw so much bullcrap in my life. Qur'an says that muslim may kill for not believeing in Allah?! Guys that destroyed world trade center are good muslims?! JesusIsAlive, people like you make me sick. You dare to speak about Islam when your own religion has a lot of strange things and it controdicts it self. You don't believe that Jesus is prophet only because you blindly believe in what Bible says, i don't mind, it is your right but do your self a favoure try learning views of both religions before posting some bullcrap comics.
Your religion believes that there is only one God but also says there are God son and God father. Interesting, don't you think? Or how about main idea of Christianity? Jesus died for peoples sins, right? Who created people? God. So God created people and then let them kill himself to expiate their sins so he would let them go to heaven. Makes a lot of sense, right?
I'm not even talking about similarity of Christianity with ancient religion where people worshiped sun. I know in the davinchi code there is a lot of fiction, but there are also some facts you might find interesting, if you don't want to do research by yourself at least read that book. Anyway, i don't care about controdictions now and i don't want to offend christians, sorry if i did, I only suggest you not to believe in every bullcrap you find on sites that were obviously made by christians, and you believe them only because that site speaks well about YOUR God.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Well, see? I do not hate you, I do not swear, I do not call you islamophob. Disagreeing with Islam is the same as disagreeing with any other religion.

Oh and I'm just curious, what's that written in your signiture?

Its from a song.

It says:

First bit says:

''Look upon your home Angel, and take the spider's web from your eyes, You'll see scenes of disturbance, you'll see wounded and ill, you'll see suffering, death and poverty''

Last bit says
''Answer the prayers Angel, rid of the enemies, and became the vengeful one, let them feel us on their skin, let them know what the poverty, fear and pain means''

Sorry can't be bothered to translate the middle.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Its from a song.

It says:

First bit says:

''Look upon your home Angel, and take the spider's web from your eyes, You'll see scenes of disturbance, you'll see wounded and ill, you'll see suffering, death and poverty''

Last bit says
''Answer the prayers Angel, rid of the enemies, and became the vengeful one, let them feel us on their skin, let them know what the poverty, fear and pain means''

Sorry can't be bothered to translate the middle.

Ok thanks
I was just curious because it sounds like russian or Ukrainian.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Its from a song.

It says:

First bit says:

''Look upon your home Angel, and take the spider's web from your eyes, You'll see scenes of disturbance, you'll see wounded and ill, you'll see suffering, death and poverty''

Last bit says
''Answer the prayers Angel, rid of the enemies, and became the vengeful one, let them feel us on their skin, let them know what the poverty, fear and pain means''

Sorry can't be bothered to translate the middle.


You sound pissed off. I know what an alecto is as well, some fundies piss you off or something?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1031/1031_01.asp?wpc=1031_01.asp&wpp=a (Fact or Fiction?)
To show how stupid the chick tracts are... Here is one of the books reviewed that they use as a source for their information of Islam.

Mr. Robert Morey is a complete crackpot who pushes hate and already disproven theories as scholarship. His "moon-god" premise both lacks logic and historical accuracy and the fact that he continues to preach it makes me wonder if he believes in any god at all. After all, isn't lying a sin? Well, what about repeatedly lying, writing books about the lie, and lying to college-aged kids through radio and computer broadcasts? Is that what Jesus would do?

From deliberately misquoting scripture (verses in the Qur'an taken grossly out of context), to cutting, pasting, and misquoting (which seems to be Morey's masterwork) works of scholars (Professor Carleton S. Coon, for example), "Islamic Invasion" is a tour de force of second-rate scholarship, strawman arguments, and bold-faced lies.

For example, Morey claims that the word "Allah" comes from the moon-god, and that Muslims do not actually worship God, but (heaven forbid!)...the Moon-God! Like I noted above, this statement, first being an outright lie (and Morey knows this too...that is the crazy part! I'll explain below.), shows neither any knowledge of the Arabic language, nor familiarity with Arab culture. Second, the arguement lacks any basis in logic, as I will show. On to the first point...

I myself am an Arab. My family speaks Arabic. My family also happens to be Christian. (I am a Muslim) Now, when my Grandmother prays (she is a Christian mind you) she uses the word "Allah". She is worshipping God. That is how you say "God" in Arabic, whether you are a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, a Druze, atheist, whatever. It is not like some two-cent fakes (ahem...) note that in Arabic you use the word "Khodh", which happens to be a Farsi word meaning "Lord". This is not true in the least and quite honestly I do not know anyone who uses that word for "God". "Lord" and "God " are two different words. Now, let us follow his logic for a moment. Let us say that the word "Allah" really did come from the "Moon God". Would that mean that everyone that called upon God with the name "Allah" would be damned for Hell, worshipping the "Moon God"?

Let me show the absurdity of this logic by using an example. You have a Spanish speaking Christian who is bowing his head, calling upon "Dios". There is a French Christian kneeling, calling upon "Dieu". An Italian is in the streets with his hands to the sky, praying to "Dio". And a Portuguese is crying out to "Deus". Well, according to Morey's "logic", all of these are damned because etmologically, these names all find their root in the name "Zeus", the god of the pagan Greeks. Wow...even the study of God, "Theology", is in fact the study of "Zeus", as "Theos" is linked to "Zeus". Does anyone really buy this? After all, didn't Jesus call upon God using the name "Alaha?" How in the world does Mr. Morey explain that? Is Jesus too worshiping the moon-god? Perhaps this only works according to his own theology. (Oh, whoops, there's that word again.) I will explain in my second point...

You see, in Islam, there is something called "intention". This is very important. So important that the Prophet of God, Muhammad, noted that "All actions are by their intentions, and you will be rewarded by what you have intended." Thus, if someone calls upon God using the word "Allah", or "Dios", or "Dieu", or "Yahweh", or whatever, and in his heart he is intending to communicate with the One True God without associating any partners or unbefitting attributes, he is communicating with and answered by God. God does not punish people on technicalities. After all, He is the All-Merciful.

Here is an exlicit example of how Morey cites from "authorities." The following is an excerpt from Prof. Carleton S. Coon:

"The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon God, but early in Arabian history the name became a general term for god, and it was this name that the Hebrews used prominently in their personal names, such as Emanu-el, Israel, etc., rather than the Bapal of the northern semites proper, which was the Sun. Similarly, under Mohammed's tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah became Al-Ilah, The God, or Allh, the Supreme Being. (Carleton S.Coon, Southern Arabia, (Washington, D.C. Smithsonian, 1944) p.399)."

Now, Morey, in his hate-blinded attempt to show that the Muslims actually worship the moon-god, chops up Prof. Coon's statement and comes up wth this: "The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon god" (Morey p. 10 - 11). Why didn't he complete the sentence? There was more to it. He "forgot" this part: "but early in Arabian history the name became a general term for god, and it was this name that the Hebrews used prominently in their personal names, such as Emanu-el, Israel, etc., rather than the Bapal of the northern semites proper, which was the Sun." Why did he deliberately leave that out?

In short, Morey is an absolute fraud who should fear the god he claims to believe in: lying and the deliberate spreading of lies are enormities, regardless of which religion one belongs. He should stop making incredible statements which he cannot prove, turn in his pen and microphone, and sincerely apologize to all of those whom he has mislead.

^^ I did not write the above, but it is all true. It is a review of the book Islamic Invasion I saw on amazon.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The Truth shall set you free.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1104/1104_01.asp (Who Is Allah?)


http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1031/1031_01.asp (Men of Peace)


http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0029/0029_01.asp (The Deceived)

What a crying shame there is no truth there. Tell me, isn't it a sin or something to peddle lies and mistruths? Shame on you JIA, shame on you. Baby Jesus is crying somewhere right now

Originally posted by crazy
After all, didn't Jesus call upon God using the name "Alaha ?"

Chapter and verse please.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Chapter and verse please.

I like how you do not respond to the thing as a whole though , your really are a true brainwashed Christian. You will not admit that your Chicktracts are bullshit will you, it is one thing to preach what you truely beleive, but another to just outright post lies.

I did not write that and you know it, if you said somethigng like "that guy made a mistake here..", it would make sense. I do not have a bible on me so I don't know, but I can definetly try to check. Maybe I can even contact the author.

Originally posted by crazy
I like how you do not respond to the thing as a whole though , your really are a true brainwashed Christian. You will not admit that your Chicktracts are bullshit will you, it is one thing to preach what you truely beleive, but another to just outright post lies.

I did not write that and you know it, if you said somethigng like "that guy made a mistake here..", it would make sense. I do not have a bible on me so I don't know, but I can definetly try to check. Maybe I can even contact the author.

You curse and you follow Muhammed and Allah.

I refrain from doing that (I follow Jesus Christ remember). Is there a correlation?

Originally posted by crazy
I like how you do not respond to the thing as a whole though , your really are a true brainwashed Christian. You will not admit that your Chicktracts are bullshit will you, it is one thing to preach what you truely beleive, but another to just outright post lies.

I did not write that and you know it, if you said somethigng like "that guy made a mistake here..", it would make sense. I do not have a bible on me so I don't know, but I can definetly try to check. Maybe I can even contact the author.

What do you mean you didn't write it? It has your forum name as the sender of the post?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What do you mean you didn't write it? It has your forum name as the sender of the post?

Originally posted by crazy
To show how stupid the chick tracts are... Here is one of the books reviewed that they use as a source for their information of Islam.


^^ I did not write the above, but it is all true. It is a review of the book Islamic Invasion I saw on amazon.

The first and last sentence of my post explains that I am just pasting what someone wrote. YES I KNOW IT HAS MY NAME... It does not take a messiah to figure out that when I say I did not write the above, I might have really not wrote the above.

Originally posted by crazy
To show how stupid the chick tracts are... Here is one of the books reviewed that they use as a source for their information of Islam.

Mr. Robert Morey is a complete crackpot who pushes hate and already disproven theories as scholarship. His "moon-god" premise both lacks logic and historical accuracy and the fact that he continues to preach it makes me wonder if he believes in any god at all. After all, isn't lying a sin? Well, what about repeatedly lying, writing books about the lie, and lying to college-aged kids through radio and computer broadcasts? Is that what Jesus would do?

From deliberately misquoting scripture (verses in the Qur'an taken grossly out of context), to cutting, pasting, and misquoting (which seems to be Morey's masterwork) works of scholars (Professor Carleton S. Coon, for example), "Islamic Invasion" is a tour de force of second-rate scholarship, strawman arguments, and bold-faced lies.

For example, Morey claims that the word "Allah" comes from the moon-god, and that Muslims do not actually worship God, but (heaven forbid!)...the Moon-God! Like I noted above, this statement, first being an outright lie (and Morey knows this too...that is the crazy part! I'll explain below.), shows neither any knowledge of the Arabic language, nor familiarity with Arab culture. Second, the arguement lacks any basis in logic, as I will show. On to the first point...

I myself am an Arab. My family speaks Arabic. My family also happens to be Christian. (I am a Muslim) Now, when my Grandmother prays (she is a Christian mind you) she uses the word "Allah". She is worshipping God. That is how you say "God" in Arabic, whether you are a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, a Druze, atheist, whatever. It is not like some two-cent fakes (ahem...) note that in Arabic you use the word "Khodh", which happens to be a Farsi word meaning "Lord". This is not true in the least and quite honestly I do not know anyone who uses that word for "God". "Lord" and "God " are two different words. Now, let us follow his logic for a moment. Let us say that the word "Allah" really did come from the "Moon God". Would that mean that everyone that called upon God with the name "Allah" would be damned for Hell, worshipping the "Moon God"?

Let me show the absurdity of this logic by using an example. You have a Spanish speaking Christian who is bowing his head, calling upon "Dios". There is a French Christian kneeling, calling upon "Dieu". An Italian is in the streets with his hands to the sky, praying to "Dio". And a Portuguese is crying out to "Deus". Well, according to Morey's "logic", all of these are damned because etmologically, these names all find their root in the name "Zeus", the god of the pagan Greeks. Wow...even the study of God, "Theology", is in fact the study of "Zeus", as "Theos" is linked to "Zeus". Does anyone really buy this? After all, didn't Jesus call upon God using the name "Alaha?" How in the world does Mr. Morey explain that? Is Jesus too worshiping the moon-god? Perhaps this only works according to his own theology. (Oh, whoops, there's that word again.) I will explain in my second point...

You see, in Islam, there is something called "intention". This is very important. So important that the Prophet of God, Muhammad, noted that "All actions are by their intentions, and you will be rewarded by what you have intended." Thus, if someone calls upon God using the word "Allah", or "Dios", or "Dieu", or "Yahweh", or whatever, and in his heart he is intending to communicate with the One True God without associating any partners or unbefitting attributes, he is communicating with and answered by God. God does not punish people on technicalities. After all, He is the All-Merciful.

Here is an exlicit example of how Morey cites from "authorities." The following is an excerpt from Prof. Carleton S. Coon:

"The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon God, but early in Arabian history the name became a general term for god, and it was this name that the Hebrews used prominently in their personal names, such as Emanu-el, Israel, etc., rather than the Bapal of the northern semites proper, which was the Sun. Similarly, under Mohammed's tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah became Al-Ilah, The God, or Allh, the Supreme Being. (Carleton S.Coon, Southern Arabia, (Washington, D.C. Smithsonian, 1944) p.399)."

Now, Morey, in his hate-blinded attempt to show that the Muslims actually worship the moon-god, chops up Prof. Coon's statement and comes up wth this: "The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon god" (Morey p. 10 - 11). Why didn't he complete the sentence? There was more to it. He "forgot" this part: "but early in Arabian history the name became a general term for god, and it was this name that the Hebrews used prominently in their personal names, such as Emanu-el, Israel, etc., rather than the Bapal of the northern semites proper, which was the Sun." Why did he deliberately leave that out?

In short, Morey is an absolute fraud who should fear the god he claims to believe in: lying and the deliberate spreading of lies are enormities, regardless of which religion one belongs. He should stop making incredible statements which he cannot prove, turn in his pen and microphone, and sincerely apologize to all of those whom he has mislead.

^^ I did not write the above, but it is all true. It is a review of the book Islamic Invasion I saw on amazon.

Crazy, I just want to make sure: you did not write this post?

Since you seem to be wanting to get a rise out of me, I will just link you, it is the last one.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1931230072/sr=8-1/qid=1156401993/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-2433533-3550424?ie=UTF8

Crazy, give me the benefit of the doubt. Why would I want to get a rise out of you. I asked you a serious, valid question. I am just making sure that I am not in error. I clicked the quote button on the post that had your forum name and asked for chapter and verse in reponse to a statement that you made (or so I thought because it had your forum name). Then you reply back insinuating that I seem retarded, and accusing me of posting lies. I am just trying to understand. I didn't see any quotations indicating that you were quoting someone else's words. So based on all of this I had no reason to think otherwise (i.e., that those were not your words in the post). I hope you understand this.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Crazy, give me the benefit of the doubt. Why would I want to get a rise out of you. I asked you a serious, valid question. I am just making sure that I am not in error. I clicked the quote button on the post that had your forum name and asked for chapter and verse in reponse to a statement that you made (or so I thought because it had your forum name). Then you reply back insinuating that I seem retarded, and accusing me of posting lies. I am just trying to understand. I didn't see any quotations indicating that you were quoting someone else's words. So based on all of this I had no reason to think otherwise (i.e., that those were not your words in the post). I hope you understand this.

Yes but I clearly said in my post that I did not write the above... Wait never mind I just understood what you said so I should apologize for getting upset.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Isn't telling lies a sin in christianity? Cause that's what you did.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Isn't telling lies a sin in christianity? Cause that's what you did.

Isn't accusing someone of something without explaining what your talking about nonsensical?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Isn't accusing someone of something without explaining what your talking about nonsensical?

Isn't this stupid?

LOL!

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Isn't accusing someone of something without explaining what your talking about nonsensical?

Isn't what this what you do all the time?

I see JesusIsAlive has made a lot of "friends".

Yes...a few, actually. They are all Chisitian pshcyos who don't frequent the forum much, becuase they can't really discuss anyhting.

They also thend to be the people who throw all their "friends" names at the bottom of their sigs.

Originally posted by Alliance
Yes...a few, actually. They are all Chisitian pshcyos who don't frequent the forum much, becuase they can't really discuss anyhting.

They also thend to be the people who throw all their "friends" names at the bottom of their sigs. Yeah, what's wrong with those people?

barker

Originally posted by Alliance
Isn't what this what you do all the time?

LOL! Right!

Does anyone here use Muhammed instead of Mohammed?

I use Muhammed, because I taught a kid named Mohommed once, and he was a real wild child, so I like to keep them seperate.

Originally posted by Alliance
I use Muhammed, because I taught a kid named Mohommed once, and he was a real wild child, so I like to keep them seperate. Muhammed is the proper term, it's just that Americans are afreaid of Us.

???

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Isn't accusing someone of something without explaining what your talking about nonsensical?

When i tell you, you simply do not pay attention and it is not my problem, but links that you gave are bullcrap. So you spread lies.