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There is a twist ofcourse.


Captain America had his shield.

Batman has a sword, eg: samuri, nija, katana ect.(which ever sword he's known for using best)...unbreakable, but it can not penetrate Cap's shield.

Batman has one throwing item hard enough to penetrate Cap's body but not his shield, eg: ninja star, dart, ect.(which ever one he's known to have the best accuracy with.

If Cap throws his shield at Batman...Bat's can deflect it with the sword and obviously vice versa.

They're both in tight briefs...no suits....Batman's throwing item is securely placed on the side of his briefs...it will only leave his side if he throws it.

In a Ring the size of a tennis court...domed shut.

(Standard Size Tennis Court: 60' x 120')

Debate.

nope, because then bats wouldnt be batman. bats will never beat cap...

whaaaaaaaa whawha

Originally posted by bigbran
nope, because then bats wouldnt be batman. bats will never beat cap...

whaaaaaaaa whawha

It's a what if though...

You know, Wolverine kills the Silver Surfer.

Originally posted by Mr Master
It's a what if though...

You know, Wolverine kills the Silver Surfer. wolves killed ss??!!?!?!?!?

Cap still wins because of his skill with his sheild

Bats is a master swordsman, but Caps sheild is like an extension of his own body.

Without prep, Bats can't beat Cap

hell, batman can beat anybody if given his opponent's ability...

Originally posted by Mr Master
There is a twist ofcourse.


Captain America had his shield.

Batman has a sword, eg: samuri, nija, katana ect.(which ever sword he's known for using best)...unbreakable, but it can not penetrate Cap's shield.

Batman has one throwing item hard enough to penetrate Cap's body but not his shield, eg: ninja star, dart, ect.(which ever one he's known to have the best accuracy with.

If Cap throws his shield at Batman...Bat's can deflect it with the sword and obviously vice versa.

They're both in tight briefs...no suits....Batman's throwing item is securely placed on the side of his briefs...it will only leave his side if he throws it.

In a Ring the size of a tennis court...domed shut.

(Standard Size Tennis Court: 60' x 120')

Debate.

Wouldn't the SSS just make Batman the peakest of human perfection? The only thing that it would do to Bats is give him the nigh-limitless stamina. That's it. Everything else is already there thanks to Batman's training.

Anyway, Cap still wins because he has his shield.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Wouldn't the SSS just make Batman the peakest of human perfection? The only thing that it would do to Bats is give him the nigh-limitless stamina. That's it. Everything else is already there thanks to Batman's training.

Anyway, Cap still wins because he has his shield.

Agreed. Cap's shield is very much a part of him. Its an extension of Captain America. Bats can't beat that

Batman wins.

Tight briefs... ... droolio

Batman can probably already beat Captain America...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Tight briefs... ... droolio

Batman can probably already beat Captain America... WRONG!

Originally posted by King KAM
WRONG! That's nice dear.

I already made a similar thread to this.....however, Bats couldn't beat Cap even with the serum increase simply because Steve is the best ther is

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That's nice dear. yes mom

Bats is the best.

Huh huh people. Batman already beats Captain America with their normal arsenals; but giving him the SSS??? Batman wins here too.

Originally posted by batdude123
Huh huh people. Batman already beats Captain America with their normal arsenals; but giving him the SSS??? Batman wins here too.

When did Batman beat Cap? I hope you're not referring to the Marvel vs. DC cross-over from back in the day.

Originally posted by batdude123
Huh huh people. Batman already beats Captain America with their normal arsenals; but giving him the SSS??? Batman wins here too.

First its your opinion Batman already beats Cap. Second its not all regular arsenal. Bruce only has a sword and a projectile, nothing else while Cap still has his shield. Third Bruce is already at the precipice of human perfection, the SSS would probably only make him slightly stronger and faster and give him more stamina.

Cap is way more proficient with his shield than with any of Bruce's normal arsenal, especially with a sword so I think Captain America has a slight edge here. I give it to Steve 6/10

Originally posted by Metalmanx
When did Batman beat Cap? I hope you're not referring to the Marvel vs. DC cross-over from back in the day.


Let me explain, Batman knows 127 styles of Martial Arts, Capt only Has military Training, boxing, judo.

So in Batdudes world Capt doesnt stand a chance.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Let me explain, Batman knows 127 styles of Martial Arts, Capt only Has military Training, boxing, judo.

So in Batdudes world Capt doesnt stand a chance.

Ah.

Over-rated vs over-rated. Who wins? Nobody. Jobber auras merge and implode the universe.

captain and bat already fought. captain lose to batman. doesn't matter if captain had the sheild when he throw it batman is just going to duck it and thorw his boomarang at him.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Let me explain, Batman knows 127 styles of Martial Arts, Capt only Has military Training, boxing, judo.

So in Batdudes world Capt doesnt stand a chance.

Maybe you should go and learn more about Cap

He knows a lot more styles than that

Originally posted by Grimm22
Maybe you should go and learn more about Cap

He knows a lot more styles than that

I think he was just being a bit sarcastic, trying to make a point.

At least that's how I read it, heh.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I think he was just being a bit sarcastic, trying to make a point.

At least that's how I read it, heh.

Yeah I guess

Originally posted by Grimm22
Maybe you should go and learn more about Cap

He knows a lot more styles than that


I know he knows more styles, his style is actually unique, but those are his most mentioned ones when you read his profile.

Originally posted by loosecano
captain and bat already fought. captain lose to batman. doesn't matter if captain had the sheild when he throw it batman is just going to duck it and thorw his boomarang at him.

What are you talking about? That Marvel vs DC where the fans voted? The one nothing else but popularity mattered? Where Lobo lost to Wolverine? Yeah, thats what you should base your opinion on.

If you want to use an actual crossover use JLAvengers which is canon. Bats and Cap were sizing each other up when Batman said its conceivable for you to beat me, it'd just take a long time. And later on in the series Prometheus who owned Bruce a while back tried to take on Cap using Batman's fighting abilities and lost (pretty badly too)

Let's not forget that Batman get's to carry one throwing item beside his sword.

I don't see anyone mentioning that.

Batman has distance(one shot but still)and a sword that can deflect Caps shield as easily as Cap reflects objects with his shield.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Let's not forget that Batman get's to carry one throwing item beside his sword.

I don't see anyone mentioning that.

Batman has distance(one shot but still)and a sword that can deflect Caps shield as easily as Cap reflects objects with his shield.

As long as Batman had his sword, I think it's pretty safe to say that Cap wouldn't toss the shield away.

I would normally give Steve the odds in a Batman vs. Captain America scenario. However, assuming that Batman is also given the Super Soldier Serum, and is pretty much given Steve's skill in the 'deflection' area, you are pretty much pitting Captain America vs. Captain America.

I see this thread going 5/10.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Let's not forget that Batman get's to carry one throwing item beside his sword.

I don't see anyone mentioning that.

Batman has distance(one shot but still)and a sword that can deflect Caps shield as easily as Cap reflects objects with his shield.

Cap throws his sheild so hard it splits Bats sword in half

Originally posted by Soljer
I would normally give Steve the odds in a Batman vs. Captain America scenario. However, assuming that Batman is also given the Super Soldier Serum, and is pretty much given Steve's skill in the 'deflection' area, you are pretty much pitting Captain America vs. Captain America.

I see this thread going 5/10.

How is Batman given Cap's skill with deflection? Bruce has the ability do deflect but he is nowhere near to Cap when it comes to that aspect. Bruce is proficient in the use of swords but Captain America and his shield are one. With everything else equal and no gads for Batman Steve takes this.

Originally posted by marvelprince
How is Batman given Cap's skill with deflection? Bruce has the ability do deflect but he is nowhere near to Cap when it comes to that aspect. Bruce is proficient in the use of swords but Captain America and his shield are one. With everything else equal and no gads for Batman Steve takes this.

Exactly.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Let me explain, Batman knows 127 styles of Martial Arts, Capt only Has military Training, boxing, judo.

So in Batdudes world Capt doesnt stand a chance.

Hmm... Putting words in my mouth now. How nice...

Originally posted by batdude123
Hmm... Putting words in my mouth now. How nice...


But your the one that said Capt doesnt stand a chance without ever explaining why? I just.....Helped you out a bit.

I think Steve is superior.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
But your the one that said Capt doesnt stand a chance without ever explaining why? I just.....Helped you out a bit.

That's exactly why in a hand to hand fight I think Cap would take him 6/10.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Cap throws his sheild so hard it splits Bats sword in half

Too bad the sword is indestructible.
Batman wins. He's better trained, more determined, and with the seru, he's Cap's physical equal.
Batman 7/10

obviously Batman, if he takes the SSS at his already peak level, he'll probably become a class 4 character. The SSS turned Captain America from a scrony grunt to the great ass kicker we know today. Also consider that Batman is near equal to Captain already so is only going to become better than him. Once Batman takes the SSS, he'll become more comparable to Spiderman than to Capt.

Originally posted by Xirius
Too bad the sword is indestructible.
Batman wins. He's better trained, more determined, and with the seru, he's Cap's physical equal.
Batman 7/10

pft

Caps Sheild Skill >>>>>>>>>> Bats Sword Skill

Originally posted by batdude123
That's exactly why in a hand to hand fight I think Cap would take him 6/10.


Unless Batman has the same serum then it won't be so pretty for CA huh

Originally posted by Soleran
Unless Batman has the same serum then it won't be so pretty for CA huh

Yes.

The thread title is hilarious. It reeks of desperation and frustration

batman wins with or without the SSS. End of Thread!

Originally posted by x_danny_x
batman wins with or without the SSS. End of Thread!



Great argument, good points, I like your style.

Batman has a good chance to win without the serum. I agree with X Danny X.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
I know he knows more styles, his style is actually uniqueThat's really just a cop out for characters who purportedly know many different styles but rarely show actual skilled techniques from these supposedly mastered styles...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That's really just a cop out for characters who purportedly know many different styles but rarely show actual skilled techniques from these supposedly mastered styles...

Um... in a tournament of masters, Batman demonstrated all 127 different styles that he knows.

Originally posted by batdude123
Um... in a tournament of masters, Batman demonstrated all 127 different styles that he knows. I was referring to Captain America. And really besides that instance how often does Batsy show his specific styles?

Cap needs the Serum to be Bats equal as Batman is all natural. Give Batman the juice and..........well you get the idea.

Batman wins.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Cap needs the Serum to be Bats equal as Batman is all natural. Give Batman the juice and..........well you get the idea.

Batman wins.
yes

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I was referring to Captain America. And really besides that instance how often does Batsy show his specific styles?

He uses his training all the time. It's not like you're going to see him using 127 styles of combat in every single one of his comics. It just shows exactly how profficient Batman is in the martial arts category. I know you don't think much of Batman, but he's one of the best fighters in all of comics.

I have seen Batman used some bad@ss techniques to put down a opponent. Crazy as it sounds Batman DOES know 127 different fighting styles. It's easier for him to learn cause he is one of the smartest people in the DCU. And plus being he don't have any powers he deserves atleast that much.

Originally posted by batdude123
He uses his training all the time.Are you referring to Batman or Captain America. I'm somewhat in agreement about Batman, but frankly if Captain America is supposed to be the best h2h fighter in all of Marvel as some claim then I'm unimpressed by the level of Marvel's h2h skills.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Are you referring to Batman or Captain America.

Batman.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm somewhat in agreement about Batman, but frankly if Captain America is supposed to be the best h2h fighter in all of Marvel as some claim then I'm unimpressed by the level of Marvel's h2h skills.

I would agree with you, if I wasn't afraid that all the Captain America fans would swarm me. fear

Originally posted by batdude123
I would agree with you, if I wasn't afraid that all the Captain America fans would swarm me. fear
You mean King Kam?

Originally posted by Accel
You mean King Kam?

Him, and there are also some other accentric Cap lovers as well.

I certainly hope you aren't talking about me. :-/

Regardless:
In a hand to hand fight, a normal Batman may be able to score a single win against steve. With gadgets and his suit, that goes up a win or two. With the Super Soldier Serum, it goes to five out of ten. With the Super Soldier Serum AND gadgets, Captain America loses.

I personally like both characters. My opinion is in a straight h2h fight it's dead even.

Originally posted by Soljer
I certainly hope you aren't talking about me. :-/

Regardless:
In a hand to hand fight, a normal Batman may be able to score a single win against steve. With gadgets and his suit, that goes up a win or two. With the Super Soldier Serum, it goes to five out of ten. With the Super Soldier Serum AND gadgets, Captain America loses.

I'd agree pretty much.

Batman as regularly shown, is not meant for the straight up fight. He's more.. i'll take you in the dark by surprise.

Btw. you don't need to know 127 fighting styles. You need to know how to win in a fight. A guy that picks up a book and studies all the stances and moves, but never spars, is going down a lot more than a street fighter thats gotten into scraps and has a sixth sense pretty much when it comes to fighting.

However batman i'd say with gadgets 3-4 out of ten. with serum 6/10. And I love cap.

However, both without gadgets, armor etc.. but at the cap level of peak body... I'd say it goes 5/10 both ways.

cap would lose if batman got "suped up"

Originally posted by marvelprince
What are you talking about? That Marvel vs DC where the fans voted? The one nothing else but popularity mattered? Where Lobo lost to Wolverine? Yeah, thats what you should base your opinion on.

If you want to use an actual crossover use JLAvengers which is canon. Bats and Cap were sizing each other up when Batman said its conceivable for you to beat me, it'd just take a long time. And later on in the series Prometheus who owned Bruce a while back tried to take on Cap using Batman's fighting abilities and lost (pretty badly too) But Batman's butler beat Promethius too, so that Cap>Prom>Bats thing is pretty useless.


Either way, Bats certainly wins the majority with the serum.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Cap needs the Serum to be Bats equal as Batman is all natural. Give Batman the juice and..........well you get the idea.

Batman wins.

Cap needs the serum to be on Batman's level? Cap w/ the serum has higher (albeit slighly) abilities than Batman. Do you know how the serum works? It doesn't build on what you have, it just takes you to the top, to a preset level. Batman is practically already on that level so it wouldn't do as much as your implying.

Originally posted by Juntai
But Batman's butler beat Promethius too, so that Cap>Prom>Bats thing is pretty useless.


Either way, Bats certainly wins the majority with the serum.

I hope your not refering to that Hush returns storyline because that character was never intended to be Promethuis. It was supposed to be Onomatopoeia but Kevin Smith didn't want his character used so they just replaced him in the script. Thats besides the point anyway since I was only illustrating how crossovers shouldn't be taken as fact.

Even with the serum Cap still wins

let me put this to the floor...

Batman spent 15 years touring the far east, he is a master of EVERY form of known combat. FIFTEEN YEARS!!!

exactly when did cap learn his skills again??? i missed that part in the origin..

As far as i can tell, he had about enough time for one judo lesson before they threw him on the front lines.

imagine hitler's surprise when his elite commandos were roundly thrashed by a bodybuilder hoying a dustbin lid around the place...


bats all the way, no contest.

*rolls eyes*

Good argument.

Batman is teh kewler! Eh winz!!!

Meh.

I still stand by these approximations: (they vary depending on my frame of reference and mood, so they may not be exactly as they were earlier)

Bruce Wayne vs. Steve Rogers - Steve 8-9/10
SSS Bruce Wayne vs. Steve Rogers - draw, 5/10.
Batman vs. Captain America - Captain America 6-7/10
SSS Batman vs. Captain America - SSS Batman 6-7/10

Hopefully you can guess the difference between Bruce Wayne and Batman. Likewise, the difference between Steve Rogers and Captain America.

and the super serum makes cap a good fighter, how?

it's not a long jump contest, it's a fight, dude.

remind me again when rogers learned all his combat skills?....

Originally posted by kolya01
and the super serum makes cap a good fighter, how?

it's not a long jump contest, it's a fight, dude.

remind me again when rogers learned all his combat skills?....

Immediately after he took the serum. He was taught mostly Americian Judo and Boxing but was also extensively trained in other fighting styles that were out there. None of that really matters though since Cap has his own fighting style. In the prescribed matchup Cap and Bruce are basically all on equal footing in terms of strength, agility etc. Deciding factor is that Cap has shield. Even though Bruce has a sword he is nowhere are skilled with it as Cap is with his shield. If they were weaponless this would go the other way but Cap w/ his shield take this

trained extensively????

15 years is extensive training. cap had 12 months tops. (and nowhere near that in the original origin stories).

Originally posted by marvelprince
None of that really matters though since Cap has his own fighting style. I know a whole bunch of fighting styles and I've amalgamated them into my own unique fighting style too. Flail arms wildly. Sure it doesn't actually look like I know a bunch of fighting styles. But it's really effective. Really.

"Bruce Wayne vs. Steve Rogers - Steve 8-9/10"

Based on?

lol

i was thinking the same. I have my own style


it's crap.



but i have it.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

"Bruce Wayne vs. Steve Rogers - Steve 8-9/10"

Based on?

Based on? My opinion, obviously. Just as any 'out of ten approximation' is based on the poster's opinion. Said opinion, however, stems from Steve's superior physique (in fact, a case can be made for his VASTLY superior physique. Not to say that Batman isn't strong, but I don't think it is quite as close as some make it out to be. Not to mention, I don't think Batman has ever managed to run a one-minute mile.) In addition Steve claims higher durability and longevity. Assuming that Rogers doesn't allow Bruce one of his 'leopard' blows, I can't see him losing very many rounds, especially if their skill is approximately equal.

yes but this is Bats with SSS. meaning they're literally equal in terms of all physical aspects. but Bats is smarter and a slightly better fighter.

HOW IS THEIR SKILL EQUAL???????

fifteen years versus 5 minutes!!!! grrrrr.

granted steve's strength and durability is better, but Batman is the most skilled combatant on earth - period. no contest.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
yes but this is Bats with SSS. meaning they're literally equal in terms of all physical aspects. but Bats is smarter and a slightly better fighter.

*nods* And I mentioned that. X was referring to normal Bruce Wayne (hence, no batsuit/gadgets) versus normal Captain America (hence, no shield or chain mail).

When it is Super Soldier Serum Bruce versus Captain America, the odds go to an even split.

Originally posted by rotiart
I'd agree pretty much.

Batman as regularly shown, is not meant for the straight up fight. He's more.. i'll take you in the dark by surprise.

Btw. you don't need to know 127 fighting styles. You need to know how to win in a fight. A guy that picks up a book and studies all the stances and moves, but never spars, is going down a lot more than a street fighter thats gotten into scraps and has a sixth sense pretty much when it comes to fighting.

However batman i'd say with gadgets 3-4 out of ten. with serum 6/10. And I love cap.

However, both without gadgets, armor etc.. but at the cap level of peak body... I'd say it goes 5/10 both ways.

cap would lose if batman got "suped up"

Wow, if that's what you believe, then you know absolutely nothing about Batman.

Originally posted by batdude123
Wow, if that's what you believe, then you know absolutely nothing about Batman.

Haha, though I disagree with your standpoint in this particular thread, I HAVE to agree with you on this point. Batman is a MAGNIFICENT fighter, he knows how to win a fight. He is one of the best fighters in DC, for sure. (Excluding Karate kid -_-).

He has beaten Lady Shiva, Cassie, Richard Dragon. Jesus, I'm having trouble THINKING of a better fighter than him right this second, :-P.

that's cos there isn't one.


hmmm...how about deathstroke though?...

Originally posted by Soljer
He has beaten Lady Shiva, Cassie, Richard Dragon. Jesus, I'm having trouble THINKING of a better fighter than him right this second, :-P. For a moment I thought this read:
He has beaten Lady Shiva, Cassie, Richard Dragon, Jesus. I'm having trouble THINKING of a better fighter than him right this second, :-P.

*laughs his ass off*

Well...you know, the Batkick IS related to the source, after all.... .

Oh, and Deathstroke is a better tactician, and better strategist. However, I don't consider him to be Batman's superior in a straight up fight.

Again, I could be incorrect, though.

Originally posted by kolya01
HOW IS THEIR SKILL EQUAL???????

fifteen years versus 5 minutes!!!! grrrrr.

granted steve's strength and durability is better, but Batman is the most skilled combatant on earth - period. no contest.

Don't debate semantics. How could Cap learn to fight in "5 minutes"? How the hell can Batman learn 127 styles in only 15 years? Its a comic thats how

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I know a whole bunch of fighting styles and I've amalgamated them into my own unique fighting style too. Flail arms wildly. Sure it doesn't actually look like I know a bunch of fighting styles. But it's really effective. Really.

"Bruce Wayne vs. Steve Rogers - Steve 8-9/10"

Based on?

Thats really cute. Doesn't change the fact that Batman won't have a database to pull from when he's fighting Captain America


Originally posted by Soljer
Haha, though I disagree with your standpoint in this particular thread, I HAVE to agree with you on this point. Batman is a MAGNIFICENT fighter, he knows how to win a fight. He is one of the best fighters in DC, for sure. (Excluding Karate kid -_-).

He has beaten Lady Shiva, Cassie, Richard Dragon. Jesus, I'm having trouble THINKING of a better fighter than him right this second, :-P.

Of course he's beat all of them, 'cept Jesus I don't think they've fought . He's only won cause he's Batman though, not cause he's better. Some of those wins he's gotten weren't even strictly h2h and he certainly still had the protection of his suit. Thats not a factor here

First, that joke was already done . Second, I had a period there, damnit!

Damn you people! Notice punctuation! :-P.

Moving on, though. I believe that Batman beat on Shiva at least once without his suit. He came to a draw with her again, without his suit.

And with Batgirl(Cass), they both have the advantage of a Batsuit, so I don't think your argument holds much water.

Regardless, I still want someone more knowledgable than me to point out better fighters in DC (Minus karate kid, the walking plot device.)

Originally posted by Soljer
First, that joke was already done . Second, I had a period there, damnit!

Damn you people! Notice punctuation! :-P.

Moving on, though. I believe that Batman beat on Shiva at least once without his suit. He came to a draw with her again, without his suit.

And with Batgirl(Cass), they both have the advantage of a Batsuit, so I don't think your argument holds much water.

Regardless, I still want someone more knowledgable than me to point out better fighters in DC (Minus karate kid, the walking plot device.)

Other than Shiva, Richard and Cass I think Batman is tops. I guess you could agrue Conner Hawke is on the same level since he fought Shiva to a standstill. There is also Drakon who I don't think ever fought Batman but was taking Conner to the cleaners even though Conner stalemated Shiva. Cain is also another one as well as Deathstroke (though I think its his enhanced abilities more than anything that lets him beat Bats). Ollie may also be close to Bats level as he was schooling DS in the latest Green Arrow

Originally posted by marvelprince
Of course he's beat all of them, 'cept Jesus I don't think they've fought . He's only won cause he's Batman though, not cause he's better. Some of those wins he's gotten weren't even strictly h2h and he certainly still had the protection of his suit. Thats not a factor here

He beat them cause he's Batman?

You know, people can go by cliche and say that Lady Shiva>Batman; however if you look at actual COMIC BOOK FIGHTS between the two, you will notice that he is SLIGHTLY her superior.

Same goes with Cass. When they sparred, people can't seem to get over the fact that she made him bleed internally. Well, if you notice that when they fought, Batman was fighting her with only one arm for the most part. Not only that, he used a move on her that made her go wide-eyed and hurt. Batman and Cassie are pretty much equals.

Richard Dragon and Batman stalematted when they fought. PERIOD.

Batman was also beating Bronze Tiger before his guards tranqed him.

So, I think people need to reevaluate Batman's position in the DC's ranking system.

Originally posted by batdude123
He beat them cause he's Batman?

You know, people can go by cliche and say that Lady Shiva>Batman; however if you look at actual COMIC BOOK FIGHTS between the two, you will notice that he is SLIGHTLY her superior.

Same goes with Cass. When they sparred, people can't seem to get over the fact that she made him bleed internally. Well, if you notice that when they fought, Batman was fighting her with only one arm for the most part. Not only that, he used a move on her that made her go wide-eyed and hurt. Batman and Cassie are pretty much equals.

Richard Dragon and Batman stalematted when they fought. PERIOD.

Batman was also beating Bronze Tiger before his guards tranqed him.

So, I think people need to reevaluate Batman's position in the DC's ranking system.

Yes, he beat them cause he's Batman. DC is not going to let one of its biggest cash-cows lose consistently. Even though Shiva and Cass were clearly introduced as Batman's equals, at fact that he has admitted to more than once, he's still gonna beat them at some point simply because he's Batman and they can't have him losing. They don't even try and make it make sense by having him learn a new skill or something, it just happens. When they're first introduced its like omg I can't beat this person but when we see them again he just up and beats them. Can you honestly tell me you understand that logic?

How about Connor and Drakon, then? Not out of debate, out of curiosity.

What is your DC, martial artists-ranking?

Originally posted by marvelprince
Yes, he beat them cause he's Batman. DC is not going to let one of its biggest cash-cows lose consistently. Even though Shiva and Cass were clearly introduced as Batman's equals, at fact that he has admitted to more than once, he's still gonna beat them at some point simply because he's Batman and they can't have him losing. They don't even try and make it make sense by having him learn a new skill or something, it just happens. When they're first introduced its like omg I can't beat this person but when we see them again he just up and beats them. Can you honestly tell me you understand that logic?

No, actually it doesn't make sense that Cassie would beat Batman at all. Cassie doesn't even have the experience that Bruce does. Bruce's experience and understanding of how to end a fight trumps Cassie I'm afraid. Not to mention that Bruce was her mentor since 1999, so he's superior to her. Sparring sessions would agree with me. And sorry but your logic is flawed. Just because you think that he wins because he's "Batman" doesn't make it so. Canon comics PROOVE that Batman is at least Cassie and Shiva's equals. And forget about what a person SAYS. That is voided by actual FEATS.

Originally posted by Soljer
How about Connor and Drakon, then? Not out of debate, out of curiosity.

What is your DC, martial artists-ranking?

Drakon is an anamoly. He comes out of nowhere and kicks Connor's ass badly. I don't even consider him in DC's top dogs because he's been shown once.

IMO:

1. Karate Kid
2. Batman 1 Million
3. Batman/Batgirl/Lady Shiva/Richard Dragon
4. Bronze Tiger
5. Connor
6. Promethius
7. Ra's Al Guhl
etc.

Originally posted by batdude123
No, actually it doesn't make sense that Cassie would beat Batman at all. Cassie doesn't even have the experience that Bruce does. Bruce's experience and understanding of how to end a fight trumps Cassie I'm afraid. Not to mention that Bruce was her mentor since 1999, so he's superior to her. Sparring sessions would agree with me. And sorry but your logic is flawed. Just because you think that he wins because he's "Batman" doesn't make it so. Canon comics PROOVE that Batman is at least Cassie and Shiva's equals. And forget about what a person SAYS. That is voided by actual FEATS.

Experience helps but not here. Cassie is faster, stronger and plus has the ability to read opponents moves. Even if I were going by the books Cass and Shiva have both beat Batman. You just choose to ignore it cause you didn't like it

Errmm...Yes, Shiva and Cass have both 'won' in individual fights, but going by Batmans record against them, he is superior. I believe he drew with Shiva once, and bested her once. A similar outcome with cass.

I could be wrong though, I'm not above admitting that I'm mistaken.

Originally posted by batdude123
Drakon is an anamoly. He comes out of nowhere and kicks Connor's ass badly. I don't even consider him in DC's top dogs because he's been shown once.

IMO:

1. Karate Kid
2. Batman 1 Million
3. Batman/Batgirl/Lady Shiva/Richard Dragon
4. Bronze Tiger
5. Connor
6. Promethius
7. Ra's Al Guhl
etc.

I like to stick to current time-lines and no one with powers so my rating is

1. Batgirl
2. Shiva/Batman/Richard
3. Conner Hawke
4. Bronze Tiger
5. Cain

Originally posted by marvelprince
Experience helps but not here. Cassie is faster, stronger and plus has the ability to read opponents moves. Even if I were going by the books Cass and Shiva have both beat Batman. You just choose to ignore it cause you didn't like it

Faster? Yes, she is. Stronger? HELL no. Not to mention he has her beat in other physical categories as well. Hmmm, the spar between the two would suggest that they tied. However, you also have to take into consideration that Batman was fighting her with only one arm most of the time and even landed a solid blow on her that made her hurt. Not to mention, he flat out told her that the defensive part of her skills was obsolete. Another piece of evidence that makes Bruce at least Cassie's equal. It's exactly like the Supergirl/Superman situation. Supergirl is better than Superman, until he actually decides to end the fight and stop holding back.

Lady Shiva has a losing record against Bruce.

Originally posted by marvelprince
I like to stick to current time-lines and no one with powers so my rating is

1. Batgirl
2. Shiva/Batman/Richard
3. Conner Hawke
4. Bronze Tiger
5. Cain

Well, I can accept your opinion.

Originally posted by batdude123
Faster? Yes, she is. Stronger? HELL no. Not to mention he has her beat in other physical categories as well. Hmmm, the spar between the two would suggest that they tied. However, you also have to take into consideration that Batman was fighting her with only one arm most of the time and even landed a solid blow on her that made her hurt. Not to mention, he flat out told her that the defensive part of her skills was obsolete. Another piece of evidence that makes Bruce at least Cassie's equal. It's exactly like the Supergirl/Superman situation. Supergirl is better than Superman, until he actually decides to end the fight and stop holding back.

Lady Shiva has a losing record against Bruce.

Its been stated time and time again again that she is like 2.5 times stronger than normal and 1.5 times stronger. I do remember that she has no defence though, you are right about that.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Its been stated time and time again again that she is like 2.5 times stronger than normal and 1.5 times stronger. I do remember that she has no defence though, you are right about that.

Well, again. What feats has she had that puts her above Bruce in the strength category? Because I know Bruce's strength feats make me think he's stronger than she is, and I read a lot of Batgirl stuff. 2.5 times stronger than a normal human is good, but Batman is probably more than 2.5 times stronger than a normal human himself. He gained this through extensive training of his body and mind. Not to mention his chi allows him to do crazy feats. Like kicking down a huge tree.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Are you referring to Batman or Captain America. I'm somewhat in agreement about Batman, but frankly if Captain America is supposed to be the best h2h fighter in all of Marvel as some claim then I'm unimpressed by the level of Marvel's h2h skills.

marvel universe h2h Royalty:

Shen kuei THE CAT

the following supersede Cap in Hand 2 Hand fightin

*Cable*
*Wolverine*
Black Panther
Spiderman
Domino
Domina
Daredevil
Deadpool

Originally posted by don't shiv
marvel universe h2h Royalty:

Shen kuei THE CAT

the following supersede Cap in Hand 2 Hand fightin

*Cable*
*Wolverine*
Black Panther
Spiderman
Domino
Domina
Daredevil
Deadpool your smoking crack considering cap has bested just about everyone on that list in h2h.

caps fighting skill is PIS.

he's got Sound Basic skills, augumented by enhanced strength + reaction times ,extensive experience and Confidence in his ability which is maintained by an aggressive propaganda machine.

Originally posted by don't shiv
caps fighting skill is PIS.

he's got Sound Basic skills, augumented by enhanced strength + reaction times ,extensive experience and Confidence in his ability which is maintained by an aggressive propaganda machine. u know 1 of the most effective martial arts in the world's whole basis is that.

muay thai, simple but repeated to perfection. and effective like none other.

when it comes to cap the flag stars and strpes costume is more effective than SSS.

SHIVA CASS BATS Mr TERRIFFIC are OLYMPIC level athletes Plus. to this posse SSS is as effective as black coffee.

100th post

Originally posted by don't shiv
when it comes to cap the flag stars and strpes costume is more effective than SSS.

SHIVA CASS BATS Mr TERRIFFIC are OLYMPIC level athletes Plus. to this posse SSS is as effective as black coffee.



Wow, you are either entirely ignorant of the Character you are arguing against, or incredibly biased towards the one you are arguing for.

Wolverine would beat them both...








*RUNS LIKE A MADMAN*

Originally posted by C1nd3r
Wolverine would beat them both...








*RUNS LIKE A MADMAN*


But only the biggest of the Fanboys of each Bruce and Steve argue that Wolverine wouldn't be able to take a majority from them.

yes, though the serum acts differently for every host batman could beat cap because he has a better base to start with, remember before the serum cap was a scrawny guy with no fighting experience, bats is already at near peak human fitness, and he has mastered several forms of fighting......as much as i hate saying it batman would win this

Originally posted by galan7777777
yes, though the serum acts differently for every host batman could beat cap because he has a better base to start with, remember before the serum cap was a scrawny guy with no fighting experience, bats is already at near peak human fitness, and he has mastered several forms of fighting......as much as i hate saying it batman would win this

As has been explained time and time again, the serum takes you to a pre-set level. It doesn't enhance or multiply the base abilities. All this would do is close the physical gap between the two combatants. And considering they are about equal in skill...

Originally posted by Soljer
As has been explained time and time again, the serum takes you to a pre-set level. It doesn't enhance or multiply the base abilities. All this would do is close the physical gap between the two combatants. And considering they are about equal in skill... but its also been said it acts different with every host

Originally posted by galan7777777
but its also been said it acts different with every host

However, we can not be sure EXACTLY how it will act in Bruce as a host. The spirit of the thread was "If Batman had Steve's physique, could he THEN beat him?"

So, go with the spirit of the thread. Who knows, maybe Batman gets lucky, and gets the concentrated version of the Super Soldier Serum that sentry shot up, .

Originally posted by C1nd3r
Wolverine would beat them both...
Truer words have never been typed on this forum.

seriously Cass, Lady Shiva, and Richard Dragon are above Bats in fighting cause its basically their lives. they all show consistent superiority to Bats especially Cass in her solo Batgirl series. Not that Dragon isn't just as good but he doesn't have more showings. but he has shown to be better than Shiva. so it would be like this in Current DC Earth (meaning the 21st century)

1. Richard Dragon/ Cassandra Cain
2. Lady Shiva/David Cain
3. Connor Hawke
4. Batman

Originally posted by Metalmanx
When did Batman beat Cap? I hope you're not referring to the Marvel vs. DC cross-over from back in the day.

bats is one of the veary best h2h fighters their is now you give him sss (also note he said if batman got the sss, bruce did not become batman untill he had most to all of his training. so your giveing an already highly trained fighter the sss and something to throw & a sword.)

so look at it this way take away their training and just give them the sss their equals. then train them in their spefic weapon set, that also makes them equals. now give them their fighting training and batman has the clear edge.

Originally posted by Soljer
As has been explained time and time again, the serum takes you to a pre-set level. It doesn't enhance or multiply the base abilities. All this would do is close the physical gap between the two combatants. And considering they are about equal in skill...

"equal in skill"


B' is as far beyond Cap in skill, as Cap is beyond Jonah Jameson and Aunt May.

Lately however B' s been Off his game.
Hush, War Games and War Crimes fallout did a real number on the Vigilante.

Guy should eat once in a while. And sleep. Properly

guess he's mourning Robin 3's violent death .

Originally posted by Soljer


But only the biggest of the Fanboys of each Bruce and Steve argue that Wolverine wouldn't be able to take a majority from them.

Yes.
Logans fighting experince is measured in Centuries.
at one point in his life, to make him the perfect fighting machine
his mind was Erased, and scientifically rewritten with fighting technique.

Batman can beat Cap, he just might not take the majority. But that is with no gadgets. If bats gets his toys he'll take vthe majority every time.

Mmm...ignorance. Yum.

Woah! And excuses too! Even better.

Originally posted by don't shiv
"equal in skill"


B' is as far beyond Cap in skill, as Cap is beyond Jonah Jameson and Aunt May.

Lately however B' s been Off his game.
Hush, War Games and War Crimes fallout did a real number on the Vigilante.

Guy should eat once in a while. And sleep. Properly

guess he's mourning Robin 3's violent death . Tim Drake is dead? Anyway, I think this ends in a stalemate

current gear bats vs current gear caps. close quarters cap wins 5.1/10
current bats.. WITH ss serum. vs current caps. close quarters.. batman 7/10.

batman without the acid building in his muscles.. so he can get even stronger AND faster than he is now? sweet jesus!!!!!!

Batman can win against Captain America w/o the serum.

forget you!!!! batman takes it in the face!

Originally posted by brainchild81
Tim Drake is dead? Anyway, I think this ends in a stalemate

typo.

Robin 3 Tim Drake
Robin 4 Stephanie Brown

Originally posted by Soljer
Mmm...ignorance. Yum.

Woah! And excuses too! Even better.

Eyes Slideways,
In the Physical Education column, Cap's CV reads
rushed through commando training.
Mastered judo/ jujitsu etcetera along the way.

with a little hard work Aunt May or JJ Jameson can achieve a simillar level of Literacy in Physical education.

The Batman's C.V.
Under P.E.

Authority of 127 martial arts .
Assassin
M.D.

You know shouldn't Cap be in Enchanced Human

as a Physical Specimen Captain America outranks The Detective

I like how these threads are made to give Batman the victory since he can't get it without these necessary upgrades. I'm sure this has been pointed out already, but I just wanted to throw that in there.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I like how these threads are made to give Batman the victory since he can't get it without these necessary upgrades. I'm sure this has been pointed out already, but I just wanted to throw that in there.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I like how these threads are made to give Batman the victory since he can't get it without these necessary upgrades. I'm sure this has been pointed out already, but I just wanted to throw that in there.

Without the upgrades even Superman gives Batman respect.


After taking on a bunch of Darkseids home bread goons that were sent to Gotham,
Superman & Lightray of New Genesis, have a little talk concerning Batman.
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/2466/batmanisntnormalmp4.th.jpg
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/7931/tnormal2xp9.th.jpg
http://img335.imageshack.us/img335/9520/tnormal3yq9.th.jpg
Superman: "who told you Batman was a normal human"....


I started the thread, it's just a What if...I was interested in opinions on the matter.