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Thought this would make for a cool and interesting fight...SO, COME ON JLA AND X-MEN FANS.....DEBATE THIS!!!

The fight takes place at the North Pole around the Arctic Circle...The Flash and Aquaman are sent there to investigate a disturbance that has been seemingly killing off the seals, penguins, polar bears, and other animals there...as well as causing the glaciers to melt...

Once they get there, they find Ice-man and Storm there, investigating the same disturbance....

Mistaking each other for the contributors of this crime against nature, they take to fighting each other....each team determined to put a stop to the other team and bring them to justice....

So, who wins this match??? Ladies and gentlemen, place yer bets for..........

AQUAMAN AND THE FLASH


VS.


ICE-MAN AND STORM

Can the Scarlet Speedster and the King of the Seven Seas take down the mutant Goddess of the Elements and the "coolest" X-Man of all time??

I think iceman and storm would win, flash would be hard to catch though.

The main factor here is Flash. Iceman can drain all the water out of Aquaman and kill him very fast. The question though is whether or not Flash and Iceman have the ability to take each other out. Flash could steal his speed, but Iceman could reform. Iceman could try to freeze Flash, but Flash would probably be too fast. No way Storm is hitting Flash, so this is a hard fight - but seeing as how Iceman is completely surrounded by water and Flash has less ground for footing, I'll give this to Iceman/Storm.

Originally posted by NoFate007
The main factor here is Flash. Iceman can drain all the water out of Aquaman and kill him very fast. The question though is whether or not Flash and Iceman have the ability to take each other out. Flash could steal his speed, but Iceman could reform. Iceman could try to freeze Flash, but Flash would probably be too fast. No way Storm is hitting Flash, so this is a hard fight - but seeing as how Iceman is completely surrounded by water and Flash has less ground for footing, I'll give this to Iceman/Storm.


Interesting points and good insightful comments......that's what I like to see!!!! Good Job! Anybody out there disagree with em'???? Let's hear it...........

aquaman beat ice-man and then am and flash team up on storm

ok here is the fact ams hand never allows him to dehydrate so i dont know how well ice man is gonna be able to take the water from aquaman(i mean its magic vs mutant their) and even if he could am still could use his hand to put into the ice and then into iceman takeing controll of him

the real enemy is global warming.

Originally posted by icemayn
the real enemy is global warming. OK?......... Anyways I think Falsh speedblits them kick Iceman betweenn his legs 1000000 times in a few minutes so he is useless (and uneable to have children) and then Aquaman kill him. Storm is also Speedblit.

JLA 40/10

Originally posted by magneto1992
OK?......... Anyways I think Falsh speedblits them kick Iceman betweenn his legs 1000000 times in a few minutes so he is useless (and uneable to have children) and then Aquaman kill him. Storm is also Speedblit.

JLA 40/10

or that could happen

Originally posted by Sea King
aquaman beat ice-man and then am and flash team up on storm

ok here is the fact ams hand never allows him to dehydrate so i dont know how well ice man is gonna be able to take the water from aquaman(i mean its magic vs mutant their) and even if he could am still could use his hand to put into the ice and then into iceman takeing controll of him


Good point Sea King, I forgot about Aquaman not being able to be dehydrated, thanks to his hand now...so, which leads to the question of how Ice-Man would fare against someone that couldn't have the water sucked out of their body...but I wonder how well Aquaman would fare against a few of Storm's lightning bolts??? Anybody got any ideas?

i do have one question about that though would ice man even fill it i mean he ice for crying out loud.

although i do think that even if it does not happen like excatly like that. the flash could vibrate him to water were am takes control of him with his magic hand. then has bobby reform his body. forces him to fight on their side so it would be iceman,aquaman and flash against storm.

Originally posted by magneto1992
OK?......... Anyways I think Falsh speedblits them kick Iceman betweenn his legs 1000000 times in a few minutes so he is useless (and uneable to have children) and then Aquaman kill him. Storm is also Speedblit.

JLA 40/10

How exactly is Storm going to be speed blitzed when Wally's on the ground and Storm's 10,000 feet up in the air???

I think between Storm's hurricane force winds, multiple lightning bolts, severe artic winds (making it EVEN more colder), multiple tornadoes, etc...she is really going to keep Flash and Aquaman on their toes....all the while untouchable by either of them!!!

Jla , Iceman gets dumped into the speedforce ( But I'm gonna be an omega level mutannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnt.....) and Then it's curbstompage.

Originally posted by Comicbook_kid
Good point Sea King, I forgot about Aquaman not being able to be dehydrated, thanks to his hand now...so, which leads to the question of how Ice-Man would fare against someone that couldn't have the water sucked out of their body...but I wonder how well Aquaman would fare against a few of Storm's lightning bolts??? Anybody got any ideas?

i can show scans of am takeing electricity and it not even phasing him

Aquaman >> Iceman

Flash >>> Storm

Iceman would beat Aquaman. But the Flash is there so... he gets the multiverse dumped on him.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Iceman would beat Aquaman. But the Flash is there so... he gets the multiverse dumped on him.

no ice man would not cause their is nothing he can do to him

http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/6134/iceman20rs.th.jpghttp://img332.imageshack.us/img332/7682/iceman32ns.th.jpg

I just don't see how Storm and Ice Man can beat Flash.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/6134/iceman20rs.th.jpghttp://img332.imageshack.us/img332/7682/iceman32ns.th.jpg

*Dumps into speedforce*

Originally posted by grey fox
*Dumps into speedforce* Or the multiverse gets dropped on him.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/6134/iceman20rs.th.jpghttp://img332.imageshack.us/img332/7682/iceman32ns.th.jpg

you do understand ams hand wont allow him to dehydrait and it will allow him to take controll of ice man(if he wants)

Originally posted by Sea King
you do understand ams hand wont allow him to dehydrait and it will allow him to take controll of ice man(if he wants) Meh.. don't think so.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Meh.. don't think so.

well your wrong

I forgot about AM's telepathy.

Originally posted by Sea King
well your wrong Maybe. But I'm more inclined to think you are.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Iceman would beat Aquaman. But the Flash is there so... he gets the multiverse dumped on him.

Aquaman mind rapes Icmean

N'uff Said

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Or the multiverse gets dropped on him.

Or get's punched with 'The force of a white dwarf star'

Originally posted by Grimm22
Aquaman mind rapes Icmean

N'uff Said Jean Grey can't find his mind when he's in the ambient atmospheric water. I doubt Aquaman can. Besides he doesn't have a brain of the form that Aquaman can manipulate. Nonetheless, he loses here.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Maybe. But I'm more inclined to think you are.

well you can think that till you butt bleeds but it dont mean your right

Originally posted by grey fox
Or get's punched with 'The force of a white dwarf star' Or gets thrown into the source wall... or am I mixing up prime beings now...
Originally posted by Sea King
well you can think that till you butt bleeds but it dont mean your right How eloquent.

I think Fox, Sea King, Grimm and I'm correct.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Jean Grey can't find his mind when he's in the ambient atmospheric water. I doubt Aquaman can. Besides he doesn't have a brain of the form that Aquaman can manipulate. Nonetheless, he loses here.

uh aquaman can manipulate all forms of water (even ice as shown when he morphed his hand in to ice)

also am can controll his hand (witch is made of water)with his mind

Originally posted by Sea King
uh aquaman can manipulate all forms of water (even ice as shown when he morphed his hand in to ice)

also am can controll his hand (witch is made of water)with his mind That's nice. Iceman can exists as an amorphous undetectable consciousness in ambient atmospheric water, and is also a hydrokinetic able to manipulate said water even when disembodied.

Aquaman is a pimp

Iceman isnt

He loses

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That's nice. Iceman can exists as an amorphous undetectable consciousness in ambient atmospheric water, and is also a hydrokinetic able to manipulate said water even when disembodied.

good for him. but he still has to reside in water were aquaman has control of so iceman aint doing anything to him.

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/1760/aquamanv624190fp.jpg

this shows aquaman is resistent to elcetricity

Originally posted by Sea King
good for him. but he still has to reside in water were aquaman has control of so iceman aint doing anything to him. He has no idea where Iceman would be. He can't control him. Show him controlling the water content of another person. Because with Iceman, I have. It wasn't a slow process of dehydration. It was instant desiccation.

Originally posted by Sea King
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/1760/aquamanv624190fp.jpg

this shows aquaman is resistent to elcetricity

I miss old aquaman

I dont like the new aquaman

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
He has no idea where Iceman would be. He can't control him. Show him controlling the water content of another person. Because with Iceman, I have. It wasn't a slow process of dehydration. It was instant desiccation.

and once againg you prove to not be right

first ok lets say ice man is undetectable(aquaman can sence water)

now ice man trys to dehydrate am but wait he cant so now what?

Originally posted by Grimm22
I miss old aquaman

I dont like the new aquaman

i think their both kool

Originally posted by Sea King
and once againg you prove to not be right

first ok lets say ice man is undetectable(aquaman can sence water)

now ice man trys to dehydrate am but wait he cant so now what? Indistinguishable from other water content in the atmosphere and able to transport his consciousness between bodies of water.

Why would he dehydrate Aquaman's arm when he can just dessicate his entire body?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Indistinguishable from other water content in the atmosphere and able to transport his consciousness between bodies of water.

Why would he dehydrate Aquaman's arm when he can just dessicate his entire body?

well for one he would never be able to control ams hand in the first place and because it is what keeps him from being dehydrated ice man aint doing jack to him

Originally posted by Sea King
well for one he would never be able to control ams hand in the first place and because it is what keeps him from being dehydrated ice man aint doing jack to him He doesn't need to control the hand. He can desiccate people. He can enter Aquaman and kill him from the inside. He can use moisture inversion turning Aquaman into water and disperse him into the air. He can kill Aquaman in a hundred ways, while Aquaman can do next to nothing to harm him.

Flash is the key to them winning.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
He doesn't need to control the hand. He can desiccate people. He can enter Aquaman and kill him from the inside. He can use moisture inversion turning Aquaman into water and disperse him into the air. He can kill Aquaman in a hundred ways, while Aquaman can do next to nothing to harm him.

Flash is the key to them winning.


first entering aquaman is the worst possable thing he could do.
next you have it compleaty mixed up on who could kill who in 100 of ways

Originally posted by Sea King
first entering aquaman is the worst possable thing he could do.
next you have it compleaty mixed up on who could kill who in 100 of ways K.

How does Aquaman harm a undetectable sentient consciousness inhabiting the ambient atmospheric water indistinguishable from any other water capable of hydrokinesis on all forms of water, thermokinesis, teleportation through bodies of water, and moisture molecular inversion? Give me a hundred ways.

the fact is if ice man entered aquamans body then am would have his hand transport them to the magic sea were from then on its what am wants to do and am would simply leve ice man their and come back now ice man is gone forever.

Originally posted by Sea King
the fact is if ice man entered aquamans body then am would have his hand transport them to the magic sea were from then on its what am wants to do and am would simply leve ice man their and come back now ice man is gone forever. Really? Because he's going to be able to detect Iceman who's indistinguishable from any other water and whose location isn't perceivable by Jean Grey's telepathy.

I'd rebut the rest of your claim but I can't decipher the rest of it into English.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Really? Because he's going to be able to detect Iceman who's indistinguishable from any other water and whose location isn't perceivable by Jean Grey's telepathy.

I'd rebut the rest of your claim but I can't decipher the rest of it into English.

First....

all well i figure that when he enter his body he'll be able to tell the diffrence of the way ice man fills and the magic hand water fills (even he said that the magic waters are like nothing he has ever fealt.)

and next.....

in other words you can come up with one.

Originally posted by Sea King
First....

all well i figure that when he enter his body he'll be able to tell the diffrence of the way ice man fills and the magic hand water fills (even he said that the magic waters are like nothing he has ever fealt.)

and next.....

in other words you can come up with one. Come up with what. There are multiple ways Iceman can kill Aquaman with little to no effort. You haven't actually provided any method for Aquaman to kill Iceman.

too much power on dc. flsh is about millions of times faster than both of them. plus aquaman, isnt getting frozen while hes under water.

and where is it stated that this is omega level iceman?
the dc team wins 10/10, way too much raw power.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Come up with what. There are multiple ways Iceman can kill Aquaman with little to no effort. You haven't actually provided any method for Aquaman to kill Iceman. how about flash run s him away?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Come up with what. There are multiple ways Iceman can kill Aquaman with little to no effort. You haven't actually provided any method for Aquaman to kill Iceman.

just as you have stated how ice man can beat am.

honestly you are comeing up with stuff that i have already made a valid argument with and you just ignore what im saying because you dont like it.

Originally posted by bigbran
how about flash run s him away?
Already stated Flash is the key to winning.
Originally posted by Sea King
just as you have stated how ice man can beat am.

honestly you are comeing up with stuff that i have already made a valid argument with and you just ignore what im saying because you dont like it. Moisture inversion, instant desiccation, instant freezing of the water in his body. Just a few off the top of my head.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Already stated Flash is the key to winning.
Moisture inversion, instant desiccation, instant freezing of the water in his body. Just a few off the top of my head.

yeah one i already made an argument for that you ignore because you dont like what i have to say.

but it dose'ent matter any ways just cause am would hav already taken controll of ice man and forced him to fight storm.

and if you say he cant do that then you are simply ignoring his powers

and i would love to stay and chat but im gonna have to go to bed we can pick it back up when i get up.

Originally posted by Sea King
yeah one i already made an argument for that you ignore because you dont like what i have to say.
The water hand prevents dehydration in the classic sense. Show me it can prevent instant desiccation.
You never rebutted moisture inversion or internal freezing.
Originally posted by Sea King
but it dose'ent matter any ways just cause am would hav already taken controll of ice man and forced him to fight storm. With what? His telepathy? Won't work. His control of water? Iceman is a hydrokinetic as well I'd wager he has better control over his own water than Aquaman, and his bodies are just shells. Additionally you've yet to show he can control water inside an opponents body.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The water hand prevents dehydration in the classic sense. Show me it can prevent instant desiccation.
You never rebutted moisture inversion or internal freezing.
With what? His telepathy? Won't work. His control of water? Iceman is a hydrokinetic as well I'd wager he has better control over his own water than Aquaman, and his bodies are just shells. Additionally you've yet to show he can control water inside an opponents body.

id wager your wrong their because were takling magic vs mutant were magic trumps.

now as for not showing you him controlling water inside an opponents body wtf why would he need to do that when ice mans body is in ice form.

Originally posted by Sea King
id wager your wrong their because were takling magic vs mutant were magic trumps.

now as for not showing you him controlling water inside an opponents body wtf why would he need to do that when ice mans body is in ice form. Show he can control the composition of an opponents body. Iceman can as shown.

For all intents and purposes the bodies are just shells anyway.

Moisture inversion, instant desiccation, internal flashfreeze. Iceman beats Aquaman, but Flash wins.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Show he can control the composition of an opponents body. Iceman can as shown.

For all intents and purposes the bodies are just shells anyway.

Moisture inversion, instant desiccation, internal flashfreeze. Iceman beats Aquaman, but Flash wins.

well i honestly have not seen am do this but i have seen him controll water so it does not matter anyways because just him controlling water should be enough proof of being able to controll ice mans body.

next turning him into water hum well he has been water before but now with his hand apart of him and your going to turn him to water again well thats real smart.

has ice man ever been shown to freez mystic waters??

im bed bound so night and ill pick this back up later.

when i get up

Originally posted by Sea King
well i honestly have not seen am do this but i have seen him controll water so it does not matter anyways because just him controlling water should be enough proof of being able to controll ice mans body.Which is negated because Iceman is also a hydrokinetic, whose bodies are purely shells and can basically exist as a part of everything. Matter manipulation and dispersal of molecules.
Originally posted by Sea King
next turning him into water hum well he has been water before but now with his hand apart of him and your going to turn him to water again well thats real smart.Not turning him into a water form, just water. And then randomly dispersed.
Originally posted by Sea King
has ice man ever been shown to freez mystic waters?? What mystic waters exist in Marvel. He's a thermo/cryokinetic. Unless you're going to show mystic water is still water at absolute zero I don't see your point.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Which is negated because Iceman is also a hydrokinetic, whose bodies are purely shells and can basically exist as a part of everything. thats fair enough

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Not turning him into a water form, just water. And then randomly dispersed. but aquaman is connected directly with the mystic water so he should still be alive when he is turned into water.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
What mystic waters exist in Marvel. He's a thermo/cryokinetic. Unless you're going to show mystic water is still water at absolute zero I don't see your point.

that is my point. no mystic waters exsist in marvel(that i know of) so you cant say if ice man could take the water from his body or flash freeze his insides. (his hand is mystic water it keeps him hydrated so the water in him would also be mystic.)

Originally posted by Sea King
but aquaman is connected directly with the mystic water so he should still be alive in water when he is turned into water.That's a big if.
Originally posted by Sea King
that is my point. no mystic waters exsist in marvel(that i know of) so you cant say if ice man could take the water from his body or flash freeze his insides. (his hand is mystic water it keeps him hydrated so the water in him would also be mystic.) That's really not a valid argument. It's like saying the Speedforce doesn't exist in Marvel so Jubilee can kill Flash.

The mystic water freezes unless you show it is still a liquid at absolute zero.

And the last part is just an assumption unless you can show otherwise.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That's a big if.
That's really not a valid argument. It's like saying the Speedforce doesn't exist in Marvel so Jubilee can kill Flash.

The mystic water freezes unless you show it is still a liquid at absolute zero.

And the last part is just an assumption unless you can show otherwise.

just as you are baseing your whole idea of iceman being able to turn mystic water in to ice. it has shown it turn to ice but that was when am made it turn to ice.

but that is not my point my point is ice man is a mutant thats powers effect normal water and it can only be assumed he can only use his powers on normal water because he has never been shown to controll mystic water.

(as i and batdude have talked about Captin marvel is real fast so he should be able to become intangable like sups but cm has never been show to do so. so it can be assumed that he cant do this. the same logic applys to ice man haveing any sort of effect on mystic water.)

Originally posted by Sea King
just as you are baseing your whole idea of iceman being able to turn mystic water in to ice.What? That's not analogous at all.
Originally posted by Sea King
it has shown it turn to ice but that was when am made it turn to ice.So it freezes.
Originally posted by Sea King
but that is not my point my point is ice man is a mutant thats powers effect normal water and it can only be assumed he can only use his powers on normal water because he has never been shown to controll mystic water.Not really.
Originally posted by Sea King
(as i and batdude have talked about Captin marvel is real fast so he should be able to become intangable like sups but cm has never been show to do so. so it can be assumed that he cant do this. the same logic applys to ice man haveing any sort of effect on mystic water.) Again not analogous.
So you're saying that reduced to near absolute zero the water doesn't freeze even though it's been shown to have a freezing point? Prove it.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
What? That's not analogous at all.
So it freezes.
Not really.
Again not analogous.
So you're saying that reduced to near absolute zero the water doesn't freeze even though it's been shown to have a freezing point? Prove it.

right after you can proof that ice man has any effect on mystic waters

"Iceman cannot kill Aquaman because he's never done so before." If that's the crux of it... then... pointless.

Is the water in Aquaman's blood mystic? Hell, is his blood even mystic? My take on it was that only the hand was mystic and it provided him the ability to control water. I dont think the water would be mystic. Just mystically controlled.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot


look i find you a great person to argue with and you seem real nice also.

but this is really my time to go to bed maybe we can continue this tomorrow

I'm the nicest person in the world that I know of. I'm also the most modest.

where has it been stated that this is the omega level iceman? show me, and if not, thread over!!!

Originally posted by bigbran
where has it been stated that this is the omega level iceman? show me, and if not, thread over!!! Iceman is Iceman.

Which is redundant anyhow because Flash drops the multiverse on him.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Is the water in Aquaman's blood mystic? Hell, is his blood even mystic? My take on it was that only the hand was mystic and it provided him the ability to control water. I dont think the water would be mystic. Just mystically controlled.

no i was simply saying that ams hand is what keeps him from ever dehydrateing. so he could go with out touching water ever again if he wanted. so with that said the water from his hand would have to be creating some kind of water to keep him hydrated and if that is so what is so hard to believe that the water that the mystical hand is makeing would also be mystical?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
"Iceman cannot kill Aquaman because he's never done so before." If that's the crux of it... then... pointless.

no im just saying how do you know that mystic waters freeze the same way as normal water?

so ice man may not be able to effect it

Originally posted by Sea King
no i was simply saying that ams hand is what keeps him from ever dehydrateing. so he could go with out touching water ever again if he wanted. so with that said the water from his hand would have to be creating some kind of water to keep him hydrated and if that is so what is so hard to believe that the water that the mystical hand is makeing would also be mystical?

I understand what youre saying , but its only assumption that the water that keeps him hydrated is mystical. Id be willing to bet the mystical hand only hydrates him with regular water. If it gave him mystical water, hed probably only need to do it once since its mystical in nature and shouldnt be drained unless from another mystical being.

Its just like in the Defenders series, Dr.Strange casts spells that keep Namor hydrated. The water wasnt mystical itself, but it was conjured/appeared mystically.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I understand what youre saying , but its only assumption that the water that keeps him hydrated is mystical. Id be willing to bet the mystical hand only hydrates him with regular water. If it gave him mystical water, hed probably only need to do it once since its mystical in nature and shouldnt be drained unless from another mystical being.

Its just like in the Defenders series, Dr.Strange casts spells that keep Namor hydrated. The water wasnt mystical itself, but it was conjured/appeared mystically.

the thing is noone really knows how the hand hydrates him.

so it may have hydrated him once with mystical water and thats why he does not need to be anywere near water no one knows but the thing they do know is, is that he does no longer need to touch water.

aquaman doesnt get weak outside of water.

I still dont understand how AM can control Iceman. Until he can control a sentient body of water how can we say he can? Couldnt Iceman just Flash Freeze him before he can react? Teleport his head away (mousture inversion on just his head)

Flash wins

Flash wins. But not before Iceman obliterates Aquaman.

How does Flash win?

And what Flash are we talking about here?

As with all all threads with Iceman and Flash in them it's a stalemate because while they completely obliterate each others teammates they are either unable to hurt the other(flash) or unable to hit the other(Iceman).

Originally posted by superbatman86
As with all all threads with Iceman and Flash in them it's a stalemate because while they completely obliterate each others teammates they are either unable to hurt the other(flash) or unable to hit the other(Iceman).

Exactly true, except for one possibility:

That is, the Flash vibrates all the water on the planet into a gaseous form, and then uses his speed to localize it in one location, following that with a dump of ALL that water into the speedforce.

This assumes, of course, that the Flash also kills every living thing on the planet, as well.

Failing that? Stalemate.

Originally posted by Soljer
Exactly true, except for one possibility:

That is, the Flash vibrates all the water on the planet into a gaseous form, and then uses his speed to localize it in one location, following that with a dump of ALL that water into the speedforce.

This assumes, of course, that the Flash also kills every living thing on the planet, as well.

Failing that? Stalemate. Even then Iceman rips the water out of Flash and wins.

Who's to say that Iceman does not have a sufficient amount of control over his molecules to keep them from being sucked into the vortex/heating to a gaseous state. Flash and Iceman both have control over kinetic energy. Iceman has control over the kinetic energy of his molecules, therefore Flash would have an extreme amount of trouble discorporating him.


Also it is said that he can be "a part of everything". If he was a part of Flash than he would know Flashes location at all times and be able to freeze him/ attack him any way he wishes too.

Furthermore Iceman, being a part of everything, could freeze everything/put a layer of ice over everything. Flash slips and flies into the nearest objects at near light speed. Although, like Soljer's Flash strategy, this strategy would mean killing every living thing on earth so unless they were fighting on some deserted planet or something icy probably wouldn't try this.

I don't know much about current ice man ......... but flash should easily own Storm

Originally posted by partiallyinsane
Who's to say that Iceman does not have a sufficient amount of control over his molecules to keep them from being sucked into the vortex/heating to a gaseous state. Flash and Iceman both have control over kinetic energy. Iceman has control over the kinetic energy of his molecules, therefore Flash would have an extreme amount of trouble discorporating him.


Also it is said that he can be "a part of everything". If he was a part of Flash than he would know Flashes location at all times and be able to freeze him/ attack him any way he wishes too.

Furthermore Iceman, being a part of everything, could freeze everything/put a layer of ice over everything. Flash slips and flies into the nearest objects at near light speed. Although, like Soljer's Flash strategy, this strategy would mean killing every living thing on earth so unless they were fighting on some deserted planet or something icy probably wouldn't try this.

I'm not saying that Iceman couldn't resist being turned to gas, nor sucked into the vortex...but....the Flash can do both of these things far faster than Iceman could even THINK about reforming.

But, assuming that iceman could manage to exist inside the flash as well, the flash would also have to kill himself to take ALL The water out of the planet.

.

I'm thinking current iceman wins, more often than they stalemate. This is a hard battle to describe.

This is why i hate flash and iceman....

Gods packaged as superheros . Aquaman vs Storm seems kinda neat.

Flash and Aquaman. Flash can do it by himself really. Just steal Iceman's speed so he can't move/attack at all. Then it's a simple matter of either flying (yes, Wally can fly) up to Storm and decking her, or stealing her speed, too, and then doing the same thing.

Hell, he could even create a whirlwind more powerful than anything she's ever dreamed off and knock her into things for the win.

flach and aqualad win this hard!!

Storms speed in a heartbeat:
http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kickingupspeed2lq0.jpg

http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kickingupspeed5qz9.jpg

I'll be back with TONS of Iceman feats.

Originally posted by montrail
Storms speed in a heartbeat:
http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kickingupspeed2lq0.jpg

http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kickingupspeed5qz9.jpg

I'll be back with TONS of Iceman feats. doesnt matter, when there going against flash.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Flash and Aquaman. Flash can do it by himself really. Just steal Iceman's speed so he can't move/attack at all. Then it's a simple matter of either flying (yes, Wally can fly) up to Storm and decking her, or stealing her speed, too, and then doing the same thing.
Um....Neither one of them can hurt Iceman, mabe Storm, but not Iceman. No matter how fast he's going. Iceman can just turn to mist and travell at high speeds and Speedy or whatever his name his can do nothing to him.


Oh my.....

Originally posted by montrail
Storms speed in a heartbeat:
http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kickingupspeed2lq0.jpg

http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kickingupspeed5qz9.jpg

I'll be back with TONS of Iceman feats.

...You do know that "in a heartbeat" is simply a metaphorical heartbeat, right? It's just a phrase to say that she went really fast. Not ACTUALLY travelling all that distance within the span of a single heartbeat.

And, as fast as Storm is (why the hell am I even debating this?), she will look like she is standing still, or probably even going backwards, when compared to even the slowest incarnation of Flash.

So, in short, she stands no chance. Storm has a better chance against Wonder Woman than Flash (and by better chance, I mean Storm still goes down hard).

Originally posted by montrail
Um....Neither one of them can hurt Iceman, mabe Storm, but not Iceman. No matter how fast he's going. Iceman can just turn to mist and travell at high speeds and Speedy or whatever his name his can do nothing to him.


Oh my.....

Oh lord. You're going to crash this thread, too? Fine.

Lemme ask you one question first. Do you know who Flash is?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Just steal Iceman's speed so he can't move/attack at all.


Iceman doesn't need to 'move' to attack. In fact, since he has no brain, only an indistinguisible consciousness, he doesn't even have NEURONS that fire. Regardless of this. Bobby simply exists as the entire world's water. Ice, mist, vapor, water, everything. Including the water inside everyone's bodies - including that of the flash.

Following this, he simply flash-freezes flash(Pun semi-intended), sure, the Flash would be moving billions of times faster, but unless he can come up with some way to remove ALL the water from the earth, AND from his own body....he isn't gonna be beating bobby.

I thought flash was able to steal speed. I didn't know he could freeze people. Iceman could just as easily slow his molecules to the point that they cease to vibrate. He is not invulnerable so it can be easily done to him since he is human. Now I am certain, I don't know everything about flash. And I would be the first one to admit, I hate characters (some not all) whose powers are not in the realm of common physics (there powers become unpredictable and writers can add powers for certain occasions). But explain to me how is it that he would vibrate or run or do anything if every molecules is frozen to -273 degrees celsius (absolute zero). Absolute zero is the temperature where molecules stop moving.

If Iceman even tryed to freeze flash or his blood it wouldnt work

The only way to freeze him it to freeze his molocules, which Iceman can't do

Oh and Aquaman has magic... magic > Iceman

all he has to do is dump the water that Iceman is in currently into the Speed Force or remove it. and he'll do that way faster than Iceman's first thought. thats the gift of lightspeed. 186,000 miles per second. the average time it takes for human reaction is about 3/4 of a second. he'd be able to go around the world like at least 4 times and still have enough time to take Iceman into the speed force with time to spare.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Oh lord. You're going to crash this thread, too? Fine.
What are you talking about? How am I even crashing this thread?


Yes I do and I am aware of his speed...but I am also aware of Iceman and Storms abilities. I don't just know about 1 character.

Originally posted by Soljer
Iceman doesn't need to 'move' to attack. In fact, since he has no brain, only an indistinguisible consciousness, he doesn't even have NEURONS that fire. Regardless of this. Bobby simply exists as the entire world's water. Ice, mist, vapor, water, everything. Including the water inside everyone's bodies - including that of the flash.

Following this, he simply flash-freezes flash(Pun semi-intended), sure, the Flash would be moving billions of times faster, but unless he can come up with some way to remove ALL the water from the earth, AND from his own body....he isn't gonna be beating bobby.

No no. If Flash steals all of Bobby's speed, he's essentially a statue. As in no molecular motion at all. Even ice's molecules move. If Flash steals all of his speed, Iceman is nothing but a mere shell. There is nothing that can move, not even the ice, not even the "neurons" in Iceman's consciousness. Do you know what I'm saying?

Besides, even IF Iceman pulled a flash-freeze, it would hold Flash for about a second before he vibrates fast enough to either melt the ice holding him, break through by making it explode, or simply phase right through the block of ice.


::smacks own forehead::

I just thought of something. Why isn't anyone arguing the easy way Aquaman can win? He just shuts down both Iceman's consciousness and Storm's mind. There. Flash and Aquaman win anyway.

Originally posted by Soljer
Iceman doesn't need to 'move' to attack. In fact, since he has no brain, only an indistinguisible consciousness, he doesn't even have NEURONS that fire. Regardless of this. Bobby simply exists as the entire world's water. Ice, mist, vapor, water, everything. Including the water inside everyone's bodies - including that of the flash.

Following this, he simply flash-freezes flash(Pun semi-intended), sure, the Flash would be moving billions of times faster, but unless he can come up with some way to remove ALL the water from the earth, AND from his own body....he isn't gonna be beating bobby.
Thank you so much. Bobby is an Omega level muatnt. It will not be easy to be him. He isn't called an "Ultimate threat" for nothing.

since when did being in ice form make Iceman invulnerable to telepathy? or is there a new upgrade i don't know about.

Originally posted by montrail
What are you talking about? How am I even crashing this thread?


Yes I do and I am aware of his speed...but I am also aware of Iceman and Storms abilities. I don't just know about 1 character.

That was a kind of a mean thing for me to say. So actually, I apologize for that. I'm taking out my boredom at work on you. My bad.

Are you saying you don't know about Aquaman? Or enough about Flash?

Because I know oodles and oodles about Iceman, Storm, and Flash, as well as a decent amount about Aquaman.

Wait, why can't iceman freeze molecules. Where in comic dom does it say that? I will check it out and see, unless someone knows something

Originally posted by Metalmanx
No no. If Flash steals all of Bobby's speed, he's essentially a statue. As in no molecular motion at all. Even ice's molecules move. If Flash steals all of his speed, Iceman is nothing but a mere shell. There is nothing that can move, not even the ice, not even the "neurons" in Iceman's consciousness. Do you know what I'm saying?

Besides, even IF Iceman pulled a flash-freeze, it would hold Flash for about a second before he vibrates fast enough to either melt the ice holding him, break through by making it explode, or simply phase right through the block of ice.


::smacks own forehead::

I just thought of something. Why isn't anyone arguing the easy way Aquaman can win? He just shuts down both Iceman's consciousness and Storm's mind. There. Flash and Aquaman win anyway.

You don't understand. Bobby's speed is stolen, but he doesn't NEED it. Whatever 'shell' he was using would be stopped dead, but he could simply inhabit all the waters of the world. And regardless, he doesn't have ANY neurons in his consciousness to fire. That was my point exactly. There is nothing physical to Iceman for the Flash to speed-steal off of.

Also, yes, the Flash may be able to vibrate out of even absolute zero. However, the Iceman could also just immerse every molecule of the Flash's body (inside and out) to absolute zero, and keep it there. The flash is a powerful hero, but he still has a human body. He will die just like any other human would, if subjected to absolute zero temperatures from the inside out.

Originally posted by Soljer
You don't understand. Bobby's speed is stolen, but he doesn't NEED it. Whatever 'shell' he was using would be stopped dead, but he could simply inhabit all the waters of the world. And regardless, he doesn't have ANY neurons in his consciousness to fire. That was my point exactly. There is nothing physical to Iceman for the Flash to speed-steal off of.

Also, yes, the Flash may be able to vibrate out of even absolute zero. However, the Iceman could also just immerse every molecule of the Flash's body (inside and out) to absolute zero, and keep it there. The flash is a powerful hero, but he still has a human body. He will die just like any other human would, if subjected to absolute zero temperatures from the inside out.

Not necessarily. You're forgetting a very important piece of information, summed up in two words. Speed Force.

Originally posted by ebonyblade1
Wait, why can't iceman freeze molecules. Where in comic dom does it say that? I will check it out and see, unless someone knows something I will post a scan where he freezes EVERY water molecule in someones bpdy.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Not necessarily. You're forgetting a very important piece of information, summed up in two words. Speed Force. Sigh...what in the world don't you get? HE DOESN'T NEED SPEED! He can travell as water, mist and anyother water liquid so HE CANNOT BE HURT BY FLASH NOR AQUAMAN!.

Molecular Moisture Inversion: ability to transform people into moisture molecules and transport them over great distances, this is the equivalent of a form of teleportation.

Hey, this is one of iceman powers. Does he ever use it offensively. I mean wouldn't it be deadly to flash if he transforms him into moisture molecules and just leave him as moisture molecules?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Not necessarily. You're forgetting a very important piece of information, summed up in two words. Speed Force.

What of the speed force? Flash can speed steal, or dump a bit of water into the speed force, sure. But unless he does it with every molecule of water on the planet - including the hundred plus pounds that reside INSIDE his own body, he won't even be CLOSE to stopping Iceman.

I'm going to do something which is against EVERY rule of debate; ask a question to which I do not know the answer.

You claim that the speed force is Flash's key to victory. I know a bit about the Flash and the speed force, but, apparently, I am overlooking something. What is it that gives flash this easy win?

EDIT: To ebony blade:

Or, just use moisture inversion on a specific body part, namely, the opponents head.

It has been mentioned, and used time and time again in Iceman vs. Threads as a method to an easy victory. However, iceman may have trouble getting a bead on someone as fast as the Flash.

Regardless, it is still a tactic that he could use if he pleased. In fact, he could always just invert EVERYONE on the planet to moisture, and be sure he got the Flash too.

Good question.

Originally posted by Soljer
What of the speed force? Flash can speed steal, or dump a bit of water into the speed force, sure. But unless he does it with every molecule of water on the planet - including the hundred plus pounds that reside INSIDE his own body, he won't even be CLOSE to stopping Iceman.

I'm going to do something which is against EVERY rule of debate; ask a question to which I do not know the answer.

You claim that the speed force is Flash's key to victory. I know a bit about the Flash and the speed force, but, apparently, I am overlooking something. What is it that gives flash this easy win?

EDIT: To ebony blade:

Or, just use moisture inversion on a specific body part, namely, the opponents head.

It has been mentioned, and used time and time again in Iceman vs. Threads as a method to an easy victory. However, iceman may have trouble getting a bead on someone as fast as the Flash.

Regardless, it is still a tactic that he could use if he pleased. In fact, he could always just invert EVERYONE on the planet to moisture, and be sure he got the Flash too.

I never claimed it was the key to his victory. I brought up the Speed Force as a defense against his normal human durability. The Speed Force keeps him undamaged and intact when running or just moving in general at such high speeds. It also accellerates his healing as well.

Another tactic I came up with. Flash simply socks Iceman in the face with an IMP (infinite-mass punch) and sends him flying far beyond escape velocity. Won't kill him by any means. But, it removes him from the battle.

And again, why aren't we realizing that Aquaman just shuts both Iceman and Storm down telepathically?

and Iceman is very much so weak to telepathy. when he was stuck in ice-form and wanted to turn back he came to Emma. She kicked him and then cast various illusions in his minds. so AM mind rapes Iceman and Storm is annihilated by Flash.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I never claimed it was the key to his victory. I brought up the Speed Force as a defense against his normal human durability. The Speed Force keeps him undamaged and intact when running or just moving in general at such high speeds. It also accellerates his healing as well.

Another tactic I came up with. Flash simply socks Iceman in the face with an IMP (infinite-mass punch) and sends him flying far beyond escape velocity. Won't kill him by any means. But, it removes him from the battle.

And again, why aren't we realizing that Aquaman just shuts both Iceman and Storm down telepathically?
Because Storm is highly resistant to telepathy thats why.

Originally posted by montrail
Because Storm is highly resistant to telepathy thats why.

Highly resistant to mind-control. Not telepathic attacks. Or does xmarks need to post that Emma-PSI-blasting Storm scan again?

Thats up to him. Do I need to post a scan where she got pass Emma, Candra, and Pyslocke?


What can Aqualoser...i mean Aquaman do with his telepathy anyway?

Originally posted by Superherovandal
and Iceman is very much so weak to telepathy. when he was stuck in ice-form and wanted to turn back he came to Emma. She kicked him and then cast various illusions in his minds. so AM mind rapes Iceman and Storm is annihilated by Flash.

That is not the form of ice-man being discussed here. When ice-man is sufficiently in touch with "everything" his psyche is impossible to locate; Jean could not feel it or find him.

I don't think they realize Iceman's potential partiallyinsane.

Indeed. Jean couldn't locate his consciousness when he was in 'dispersed form'. A mindrape likely would NOT be an effective attack, if Jean couldn't even find him.

Also, you are wanting to use the infinite mass punch, all fine and dandy, except that the FORCE of the punch would simply shatter the ice, the flash would go THROUGH the ice, it would seem. Just like a normal human being hit with the punch would be liquified, not sent into space. Ice isn't durable enough to take a punch like that, it would obliterate Iceman's physical form, but, as we all know, that is hardly a problem.

Hence, we are still left with the Flash being unable to put Iceman down. AND, we are left with iceman being able to freeze the Flash, at least temporarily. Once he IS temporarily frozen, he is no longer travelling at such high speeds, it would be logical to follow that the speed force no longer offers such protection.

Then, every molecule in the flash's body is immersed into absolute zero temperatures, allowing him to, eventually(if not immediately), die from the temperature extreme.

You see, this is kind of like bobby's own version of a speed steal. Absolute zero? Zero kinetic energy. The Flash's lungs stop filling. His heart no longer beats. Not a single atom in his bloodstream moves. The neurons can no longer fire in his mind. The Flash can't think. He can't breathe. He can't live.

.

Great job Soljer!!!!!!

Ive done my job well........
at least people now realize what Iceman IS capable of

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Ive done my job well........
at least people now realize what Iceman IS capable of

Aye, and most of KMC hates you for it.

He wins too much -_-.

The only way I can reasonably see him be defeated is by BFR, putting him in a region of space with absolutely NO water.

I mean, he can't be hurt physically, he (apparently) can't be mind raped, and Iceman can pretty much stop ANY thing or one with his abilities.

KMC loves me....

only Khell hates me and hes just a sore loser....

Now do what you did for Iceman for Black Adam, :-P. People are talking like he gets walked all over by Wonder Woman -_-.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Another tactic I came up with. Flash simply socks Iceman in the face with an IMP (infinite-mass punch) and sends him flying far beyond escape velocity. Won't kill him by any means. But, it removes him from the battle.

^ how would that work? He would shatter the ice, not send it flying miles upon miles which would just give Iceman the advantage of having them think hes out for the count...besides Iceman can travel extremely fast in the moisture inversion form (Prosh said he could move from Boston to Atlanta before Mystique could pull the trigger that killed her son)

Originally posted by Blair Wind
^ how would that work? He would shatter the ice, not send it flying miles upon miles which would just give Iceman the advantage of having them think hes out for the count...besides Iceman can travel extremely fast in the moisture inversion form (Prosh said he could move from Boston to Atlanta before Mystique could pull the trigger that killed her son)

Woah woah woah. What?!

He travelled, through moisture, from Boston to Atlanta in hundreths of a second? That seems even a bit farfetched for Iceman.

I wonder if it's potentially possible for Flash to use his own skilled control over the Speed Force to wrap Bobby in it when he hits him? I think it would be possible to do this, as Wally has shown many times to have extreme control over the SF. He seems to just manipulate it to his liking. If he did that, Bobby would stay intact and be sent flying out of the atmosphere. Or least to the other side of the planet.

Regardless Aquaman can do nothing

All depends however if Iceman is even in that ice "body" He could be in the air while controlling the body (which he has done before, or at least practiced doing)


and I didnt say he did it, just that prosh said he COULD do it....though he did travel from Boston to Atlanta after that in just a few minutes (and that was a feat considering that Bobby was resisting the whole way basically) Seems at first he coudnt cope with the concept that his "brain" could be everywhere which in effect results in his "brain" being nowhere....

As far as you quoting yourself, metal man, I already disputed your Infinite mass punch claim. Read the thread, man.

And now that blair wind is here, I don't even need to debate anymore. *laughs*

Originally posted by Soljer
As far as you quoting yourself, metal man, I already disputed your Infinite mass punch claim. Read the thread, man.

And now that blair wind is here, I don't even need to debate anymore. *laughs*

You did? I have read the thread. Must've accidentally missed it. I'll go back and check tomorrow. Sleep time for me now, however.

today is a new day

Another idea.

Flash simply takes Iceman and dumps him in the Speed Force. Very possible outcome, I see no reason as to why he can't do this. He grabs Iceman, enters the SF, and leaves Iceman there, returning back to the battlefield by himself to find Aquaman destroying Storm telepathically.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Another idea.

Flash simply takes Iceman and dumps him in the Speed Force. Very possible outcome, I see no reason as to why he can't do this. He grabs Iceman, enters the SF, and leaves Iceman there, returning back to the battlefield by himself to find Aquaman destroying Storm telepathically.
How can he grab Iceman? Were talking about someone who can converst their body into water.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Another idea.

Flash simply takes Iceman and dumps him in the Speed Force. Very possible outcome, I see no reason as to why he can't do this. He grabs Iceman, enters the SF, and leaves Iceman there, returning back to the battlefield by himself to find Aquaman destroying Storm telepathically.

*nods* So long as he dumps every molecule of water within the entire biosphere into the speed force, I see this being a possible route to victory.

You know.

As long as he dumps all the water out of his own body, and that out of his team mates. And all the water out of all the civilians. And cute little penguins.

.

What is this "speed force" ya'll speak of?

Originally posted by montrail
What is this "speed force" ya'll speak of?
Something that makes you run really, really fast.

Originally posted by Accel
Something that makes you run really, really fast.

I do hope (and believe) that you are kidding.

You are a flash fan, right? (hence my belief that you are joking ).

You KNOW the speedforce is a LOT more useful than that.

I didn't feel like going into details.

I was abou 2 say. I really don't know why this is going on because Iceman could woop his a$$

Originally posted by Soljer
*nods* So long as he dumps every molecule of water within the entire biosphere into the speed force, I see this being a possible route to victory.

You know.

As long as he dumps all the water out of his own body, and that out of his team mates. And all the water out of all the civilians. And cute little penguins.

.

Okay. I know where you're going with this. But, come on, think about it here. Iceman, at the beginning of the match, is inhabiting is "body", correct? He's not already surrounding the entire atmosphere with his consciousness.

So, Flash grabs his "body/consciousness" immediately, and dumps him in the Speed Force in the first picosecond-full second of the match. With Iceman unable to escape the SF, he is incapacitated and therefore out of the match.

Originally posted by montrail
I was abou 2 say. I really don't know why this is going on because Iceman could woop his a$$

No offense again, but before you say Iceman could "woop his a$$", perhaps you should actually educate yourself in the ways of Flash. I say this because with your previous question and the earlier ones before that, it's clear you don't know that much about him. I'm being friendly here, just trying to help you understand what you're debating.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Okay. I know where you're going with this. But, come on, think about it here. Iceman, at the beginning of the match, is inhabiting is "body", correct? He's not already surrounding the entire atmosphere with his consciousness.

So, Flash grabs his "body/consciousness" immediately, and dumps him in the Speed Force in the first picosecond-full second of the match. With Iceman unable to escape the SF, he is incapacitated and therefore out of the match.

Perhaps, but he was supposed to be searching the antarctic for someone, right? Wouldn't that search go a lot faster if he were at least inhabiting some of the surrounding ice? .

We don't really know enough about Iceman to perfectly say whether his consciousness is INSIDE the ice-construct anyways. What about the ambient evaporation? Does he also exist in the water molecules that jump off the ice, as he is walking around? At least right AS they evaporate off?

It's really hard to say :-/.

Iceman is truely getting respect, FINALLY!

Originally posted by Blair Wind


Iceman is truely getting respect, FINALLY!

Honestly, BW, Iceman has been getting oodles and oodles of respect for about a year now, ever since we first learned that he was unable to die through physical means. And really, even before that, too. I for one, have always held Iceman in the greatest respects, knowing that he was one of the most powerful X-Men on the roster at all times. But I see your point nonetheless.

Originally posted by Blair Wind


Iceman is truely getting respect, FINALLY!

Since when has Iceman not gotten respect

pffffffffff when I first joined the forums....you have no idea how hard it was to get him this type of respect. Jrodslam, me, and demi and Ill with the science.....took about a year....

Originally posted by Blair Wind
pffffffffff when I first joined the forums....you have no idea how hard it was to get him this type of respect. Jrodslam, me, and demi and Ill with the science.....took about a year....

You joined about a month before myself, and from what I remember, Iceman already had quite the reputation and respect in these forums. But hey, that's neither here nor there. What's important is that he is now getting the respect he deserves.