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Who wins, master of magnetism or the man who rides the lightning?

Flash 1000/10

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Flash 1000/10
Agreed.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Flash 1000/10


your wrong - its more like - 10000/10

Flash Infinite/10

Flash.

What exactly is Flash going to do?

Originally posted by olympian
What exactly is Flash going to do?

Are you kidding me?

Flash mindrapes magneto, yes he mindrapes him.

Magneto wins. Flash ends up a smear on the road.

Originally posted by H. S. 6
Are you kidding me?
Humor me.

What is Flash going to do exactly? Break his forcefields?

Originally posted by olympian
Yes i am. Humor me.

What is Flash going to do exactly? Break his forcefields?

He doesn't have to. The Flash will be able to kill Magneto a hundred times over before Magneto even realizes the fight has started much less has created a shield. Other than that there is always the speed drain and infinite mass punches.

Flash is nothing but a human. Whats stops Mags from just break him apart because the iron in his blood.

Care to show me examples where Flash has killed someone a hundred times before a figth even started?

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Flash 1000/10
Co-sign

Flash has to gain momentum to truly speed-blitz someone. he still wins, but he cannot simply run up and punch him.

He has alot less chances than Thor does, and his track record against Mags only counts with one win, due to the hammer.

Flash is outgunned here.

Flash in a picosecond.

Originally posted by badabing
Flash in a picosecond.

co-signed

Originally posted by olympian
Flash is nothing but a human. Whats stops Mags from just break him apart because the iron in his blood.

Care to show me examples where Flash has killed someone a hundred times before a figth even started?

The Flash is just a human? The last time I checked a human can't control kinetic energy, vibrate through soild matter, doesn't have superspeed preceptions, or can run at the speed of light.


While Wally doesn't going around killing people, there are several feats that prove the level of speed he is capable of and thus prove that he can easily defeat Magneto the pico-second the fight starts. Such as saving the entire population from a nuclear explosion by carrying 1-2 people (532,000 people to be exact) at once sending them 35 miles in and out away from the city (70 miles together) in 0.0001 seconds.

http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla89pg012jd.jpg
http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla89pg028eh.jpg


He can move and attack much faster than the time it would take Magneto to form a single thought. Flash 10/10.

Not really Flash was once being held by Batman out of costume as Batman was in mid sentence Flash then appears ot of no where in costume basically saying if I didn't want you touching me you wouldn't.

There are also scans of him appearing in costume and out of costume in the same area because he was going so fast the image was still there and talking basically he was having a converstion with himself so the people would see that they weren't the same person.

So Flash can move faster than the human eye can folloow quite easily without gaining all this momentum first. He could run hit Magneto in the face before Mags even had a chance to put his shield up.

even if he did get up what is to keep Flash from simply vibrating through it.

Originally posted by TheKahn
The Flash is just a human? The last time I checked a human can't control kinetic energy, vibrate through soild matter, doesn't have superspeed preceptions, or can run at the speed of light.


While Wally doesn't going around killing people, there are several feats that prove the level of speed he is capable of and thus prove that he can easily defeat Magneto the pico-second the fight starts. Such as saving the entire population from a nuclear explosion by carrying 1-2 people (532,000 people to be exact) at once sending them 35 miles in and out away from the city (70 miles together) in 0.0001 seconds.

http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla89pg012jd.jpg
http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla89pg028eh.jpg


He can move and attack much faster than the time it would take Magneto to form a single thought. Flash 10/10.
Originally posted by newjak86
Not really Flash was once being held by Batman out of costume as Batman was in mid sentence Flash then appears ot of no where in costume basically saying if I didn't want you touching me you wouldn't.

There are also scans of him appearing in costume and out of costume in the same area because he was going so fast the image was still there and talking basically he was having a converstion with himself so the people would see that they weren't the same person.

So Flash can move faster than the human eye can folloow quite easily without gaining all this momentum first. He could run hit Magneto in the face before Mags even had a chance to put his shield up.

even if he did get up what is to keep Flash from simply vibrating through it.
These posts about sum it up.

Even Batman who is considered "human" has superhuman feats but thats the classification he has. So, yes hes a "comic book human". His blood has iron to manipulate.

Wally indeed, doesnt go around killing people. He doesnt go around attacking someone before a figth even starts either. So either Mags was sitting down having lunch and not attacking anyone, or chances are, hes using what he always does when atatcking someone/something. His shields. Hes one of the characters that constantly makes good use of his abilities in a clever manner.

Mags takes this.

Originally posted by olympian
Even Batman who is considered "human" has superhuman feats but thats the classification he has. So, yes hes a "comic book human". His blood has iron to manipulate.

Wally indeed, doesnt go around killing people. He doesnt go around attacking someone before a figth even starts either. So either Mags was sitting down and not attacking anyone, or chances are, hes using what he always does when atatcking someone. His shields. Hes one of the characters that constantly makes good use of his abilities in a clever manner.

Mags takes this.

um no mags would be ko'ed with in .00000001 secs after the start bell sounds

Could go either way iff magneto got his shield up than he wins, iff flash can get him in time before magneto can get the shield up than flash wins.

So I guess with prep magneto.
Without it Flash.

What start bell?

Either hes attacking someone and its shielded like he practically always does or he puts a lawsuit that Flash attacked him in his human guise when he wasent doing anything.

Either way, Wally loses

Originally posted by olympian
Even Batman who is considered "human" has superhuman feats but thats the classification he has. So, yes hes a "comic book human". His blood has iron to manipulate.

Wally indeed, doesnt go around killing people. He doesnt go around attacking someone before a figth even starts either. So either Mags was sitting down having lunch and not attacking anyone, or chances are, hes using what he always does when atatcking someone/something. His shields. Hes one of the characters that constantly makes good use of his abilities in a clever manner.

Mags takes this.

Read the rules of the Forum.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t308157.html

"Bloodlust

It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first picosecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed..."

Also:

"Prep time

Neither side receives any notable prep time before the starting bell. Neither side may take any offensive or defensive actions before the starting bell. Planning is allowed and powers that are automatic or 'always on' can be up, but actions such as setting up forcefields, taking flight, or consciously activating powers is not...."

Originally posted by olympian
What start bell?

Either hes attacking someone and its shielded like he practically always does or he puts a lawsuit that Flash attacked him in his human guise when he wasent doing anything.

Either way, Wally loses Its that simple when non specified people simply come in without any abilities up. Meaning it is almost a quick draw event and Flash is just so much faster than Mags that before mags even begin to think of putting his shield up he would be downed.

Even if his shield goes up Flash could vibrate through it.

Originally posted by olympian
What start bell?

Either hes attacking someone and its shielded like he practically always does or he puts a lawsuit that Flash attacked him in his human guise when he wasent doing anything.

Either way, Wally loses

dude this is a fight between to diffrent char's in a certin setting and all that so yes their is some indecation of the fight starting and flash wins in .00001 secs of that indecation

Was Batman's speed just compared to Wally's?

like a tick to a slug.

Originally posted by newjak86
Its that simple when non specified people simply come in without any abilities up. Meaning it is almost a quick draw event and Flash is just so much faster than Mags that before mags even begin to think of putting his shield up he would be downed.

Even if his shield goes up Flash could vibrate through it.

If Mags did get prep to get his shield up I'm not sure if Flash would be able to vibrate through it. His shield repels and nullifies both physical and energy attacks via charge. Also when Kitty Pryde tried to vibrate through Magnetos body which contains EM energy she injured both herself and Mags and then out of anger he hurt her even futher with an EM jolt. Now since his shield contains the same energy, Flash would most probably either get repelled and injured if he attempted a phase.

As for this match, Flash takes it all the time, he thinks too fast one speed kick should do it.

Bloodlust

It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first picosecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
If Mags did get prep to get his shield up I'm not sure if Flash would be able to vibrate through it. His shield repels and nullifies both physical and energy attacks via charge. Also when Kitty Pryde tried to vibrate through Magnetos body which contains EM energy she injured both herself and Mags and then out of anger he hurt her even futher with an EM jolt. Now since his shield contains the same energy, Flash would most probably either get repelled and injured if he attempted a phase.

As for this match, Flash takes it all the time, he thinks too fast one speed kick should do it. The problem is that Kitty Phases however that works we don't know for sure but it isn't the sane as Vibrating through.

You Mag's shields is nothing more than him using the atoms around to power his shield. The thing about Flash's Vibration is that it isn't going through his shield but it would literally be tearing apart the atoms that make it up.

wait, are we talkin both at full power? at full power, flash tries to run around a show off, and mags black holes him, or blows him up, or many other things.

Originally posted by Whittdawg92
wait, are we talkin both at full power? at full power, flash tries to run around a show off, and mags black holes him, or blows him up, or many other things.

but at full power mags still could not do any of that before flash has already hit him in the face with enough speed behind it to make it fill like a mac truck.

mags would destroy the ground before flash even sees.

Originally posted by Whittdawg92
mags would destroy the ground before flash even sees.
Flash can think faster than Magneto. He wouldn't have a chance to do anything.

Originally posted by Whittdawg92
mags would destroy the ground before flash even sees. The point is no matter what Mags could do Flash would simply beat him to the punch everytime.

god people, there's more to fights than speed. Magneto is stronger, smarter, and has better abilities than flash.

Originally posted by Whittdawg92
god people, there's more to fights than speed. Magneto is stronger, smarter, and has better abilities than flash.
Yeah there is, but Flash in the embodiment of speed. Magneto wouldn't have a chance to blink before he was laid out with a speed force punch that could level a mountain.

Originally posted by Whittdawg92
god people, there's more to fights than speed. Magneto is stronger, smarter, and has better abilities than flash. It is when the person with the speed advantage can knock the other out before they even knew what hit them.

w/e, you guys don't care, so I don't bother trying.

Originally posted by Whittdawg92
god people, there's more to fights than speed. Magneto is stronger, smarter, and has better abilities than flash.

ah not if your so fast that you could hit someone in the face with the force of a mac truck before they could think.

Originally posted by Whittdawg92
god people, there's more to fights than speed. Magneto is stronger, smarter, and has better abilities than flash.
flash beats him in 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000001 second
because it took him 0.00001 second to carry 500 000 man to 35 mile distance

Originally posted by newjak86
The problem is that Kitty Phases however that works we don't know for sure but it isn't the sane as Vibrating through.

You Mag's shields is nothing more than him using the atoms around to power his shield. The thing about Flash's Vibration is that it isn't going through his shield but it would literally be tearing apart the atoms that make it up.

Magneto uses the charge of the electrons of the atoms around him to power his shield. As the Flash runs, he will eventually gain enough momentum to reach the state where his bodies density is so small that he is able to pass his atoms through the particles of solid objects.

Therefore for him to phase he'll have to do what Kitty Pryde does.

Kitty Pryde is a mutant with the ability to “phase” through solid matter by shifting her atoms through the spaces between the atoms of the object through which she is moving.

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Pryde,_Kitty

Which means as The Flash tries to vibrate through his shield whatever mass Wally has will be repelled by the charged particles. Wally won't shouldn't get shocked because he won't make contact with the energy of the shield due to the charge. The force given off by Wally will also be nullified due to the charge of the shield.

I'll still stress The Flash takes this particular match all the time.

man, exodus, nerdy much?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Magneto uses the charge of the electrons of the atoms around him to power his shield. As the Flash runs, he will eventually gain enough momentum to reach the state where his bodies density is so small that he is able to pass his atoms through the particles of solid objects.

Therefore for him to phase he'll have to do what Kitty Pryde does.

Kitty Pryde is a mutant with the ability to “phase” through solid matter by shifting her atoms through the spaces between the atoms of the object through which she is moving.

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Pryde,_Kitty

Which means as The Flash tries to vibrate through his shield whatever mass Wally has will be repelled by the charged particles. Wally won't shouldn't get shocked because he won't make contact with the shield due to the charge. The force given off by Wally will also be nullified due to the charge of the shield.

I'll still stress The Flash takes this particular match all the time. Not really because while Kitty is shifting her atoms she isn't vibrating.

You see the point is that Wally isn't simply going through the shield but with the energy his Vibrating limbs will be creating he will lieterally tear apart the bonds holding the atoms together.

Originally posted by newjak86
Not really because while Kitty is shifting her atoms she isn't vibrating.

You see the point is that Wally isn't simply going through the shield but with the energy his Vibrating limbs will be creating he will lieterally tear apart the bonds holding the atoms together.

You're still assuming that the energy produced by the Flashes phase won't get nullified before it reaches the shield. If the energy produced from the Dark Phoenix and Galactus couldn't rip apart the particles then the energy produced by the Flash's phase shouldn't.

Let's stop the madness. Magneto won't have time to raise a shield.

Originally posted by badabing
Let's stop the madness. Magneto won't have time to raise a shield.
Agreed

Originally posted by badabing
Let's stop the madness. Magneto won't have time to raise a shield.

Agreed.

not agreed. he obviously just won't stand there and let him "speedblitz" him, so stop b.s.ing like he can't be beat by anyone cuz he can.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
You're still assuming that the energy produced the Flashes phase won't get nullified before it reaches the shield. If the energy produced from the Dark Phoenix and Galactus couldn't rip apart the particles then the energy produced by the Flash's phase shouldn't. It not the enegy produced it how it is being used. Those blasts wouldn't get through because the ATOMS are being held together to strongly by the energy Mags has.

The point is that Flash Vibration would literally send his atoms inbetween atoms seperating the bond themselves and not simply attacking it head on.

Its like Giant Metal Balls being held together by really strong glue no one can break through the balls but if someone got inbetween them breaking aprat the glus holding them together is a big difference. May not be the best metaphor but it is the best I can come up with now.

Bloodlust

It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first picosecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.
Magneto won't have the time to act or react agianst Flash.

Originally posted by badabing
Let's stop the madness. Magneto won't have time to raise a shield. Agreed

Originally posted by Whittdawg92
not agreed. he obviously just won't stand there and let him "speedblitz" him, so stop b.s.ing like he can't be beat by anyone cuz he can.

Ignore Collective Magneto(I'm not sure about him).

Magneto thinks at the rate of a human being. Flash thinks far far faster then that. Before Magneto can process his first thought Flash could run all the way to Genosha make a cup of tea, come back with a butter knife and stab Magneto in the eye.

Originally posted by Whittdawg92
not agreed. he obviously just won't stand there and let him "speedblitz" him, so stop b.s.ing like he can't be beat by anyone cuz he can.

well he really has no choice cause mags aint gonna be able to move let alone think as fast as wally can move.

also no one says wally beats everyone but he will beat mags.

Originally posted by newjak86
It not the enegy produced it how it is being used. Those blasts wouldn't get through because the ATOMS are being held together to strongly by the energy Mags has.

The point is that Flash Vibration would literally send his atoms inbetween atoms seperating the bond themselves and not simply attacking it head on.

Its like Giant Metal Balls being held together by really strong glue no one can break through the balls but if someone got inbetween them breaking aprat the glus holding them together is a big difference. May not be the best metaphor but it is the best I can come up with now.

That's still assuming Flash's particles make contact with the shield.
If you throw a wooden chair at his shield, the particles of the chair doesn't make contact with the atoms of his shield it repels and nullifies the force inflicted. The shield and the chair are like two North Poles of very strong magnets being placed together they don't make contact with each other. If it did allow projectiles to make contact with it then Thors fist would go right through it all the time as it would depend on Magneto's hold on the atoms which it doesn't. This would mean a fatigued Mags would have a crap shield.
I'll have to re-read fatal attractions.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
That's still assuming Flash's particles make contact with the shield.
If you throw a wooden chair at his shield, the particles of the chair doesn't make contact with the atoms of his shield it repels and nullifies the force inflicted. The shield and the chair are like two North Poles of very strong magnets being placed together they don't make contact with each other. If it did allow projectiles to make contact with it then Thors fist would go right through it all the time as it would depend on Magneto's hold on the atoms which it doesn't.
I'll have to re-read fatal attractions. Things make contact with his shields that is the point of having his shield up

The point I'm making is that Flash's Vibration wouldn't be attacking the shield but the very thing that makes up the shield.

And Mag's Hold on the atoms is the key to its power it not like it simply pushes eveything back ile you said it repules attacks meaning that once it makes contact it simply won't break not that it literally pushes back the attack. Otherwise no one would actually bve ab;e to touch the shield at all.

Flash's attack isn't simply attacking the shield it is destroying the very thing that holds it together. Now in reality Mags would be able to simply pull them back together but by the time he realized what had happened Flash would already be through and KOing him.

People should state forcefields (or other conditions) to stop this cheap speedblitzing, particularly from fanboys. Even though it does work, it destroys the point of the match. You look down a page and its all you see...

Flash is one of my favorite Super Hero's btw, so don't call me a "DC" hater...

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
People should state forcefields (or other conditions) to stop this cheap speedblitzing, particularly from fanboys. Even though it does work, it destroys the point of the match. You look down a page and its all you see...

Flash is one of my favorite Super Hero's btw, so don't call me a "DC" hater...
Speed is Flash's main power. It's not cheap to use it in a vesrus thread.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
People should state forcefields (or other conditions) to stop this cheap speedblitzing, particularly from fanboys. Even though it does work, it destroys the point of the match. You look down a page and its all you see...

Flash is one of my favorite Super Hero's btw, so don't call me a "DC" hater...

Hmmmm what else can the flash do but speedblitz,thats like saying lets stop the hulk cheap strenght trick.

Originally posted by newjak86
Things make contact with his shields that is the point of having his shield up

The point I'm making is that Flash's Vibration wouldn't be attacking the shield but the very thing that makes up the shield.

And Mag's Hold on the atoms is the key to its power it not like it simply pushes eveything back ile you said it repules attacks meaning that once it makes contact it simply won't break not that it literally pushes back the attack. Otherwise no one would actually bve ab;e to touch the shield at all.

Flash's attack isn't simply attacking the shield it is destroying the very thing that holds it together. Now in reality Mags would be able to simply pull them back together but by the time he realized what had happened Flash would already be through and KOing him.

I think it's more of a field then a shield, I think you may be right about the projectile thing but instead of him holding the particles together like a TK shield I believe he moves electrons in and out of the shield compensating for the force by using charge to get it.(Again I'll have to re-read Fatal Attractions).

But if the Flash does make contact with the field in his dissassembled form what about the Electromagnetic Backlash that Kitty Pryde felt when she tried to move her particles through the concentrated EM Energy?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I think it's more of a field then a shield, I think you may be right about the projectile thing but instead of him holding the particles together like a TK shield I believe he moves electrons in and out of the shield compensating for the force by using charge to get it.(Again I'll have to re-read Fatal Attractions).

But if the Flash does make contact with the field in his dissassembled form what about the Electromagnetic Backlash that Kitty Pryde felt when she tried to move her particles through the concentrated EM Energy? Its not teh same you see Kitty was offering just to get through.

Flash Vibrating as fast as he could would literally hit the shield. He would then start to based on his atoms Vibrating would begin to dissapte what is holding Mags together.

Basically think about the idea behind Mags power and the shield. Bsically it is his ability to hold bonds together to repel attacks brought on him. Flash Vibrating would take those binds as soon as he touched the area Mag's shield would also begin to vibrate tearing the shield or forcefield apart. By the time Mags would think of repulling them together and holding them steady Flash would already be KOing Mags because of his speed advantage

Originally posted by badabing
Speed is Flash's main power. It's not cheap to use it in a vesrus thread. Nothing wrong with having a power, (like I said I like flash), it just takes away from the debate, because it doesn't allow people to utilize any OTHER strategy from the getgo... people should know by this point that ANY thread vs. Superman, Wonderwoman, or Flash is most likely going to end with "speedblitz, stupid thread", (unless they have extremely high durability), which is why it would make more sense to make the thread to have a good debate other than that particular point.


Does that make sense?

Originally posted by sexyking
Hmmmm what else can the flash do but speedblitz, Hmm, whatever he chooses to by the speedforce, make clones, whirlwinds, go back in time, Infinity Mass Punch. For a person trying to be a smartass you really don't do a good job of it.


Originally posted by sexyking
thats like saying lets stop the hulk cheap strenght trick. No it really isn't, I understand and argue quite well that the fact that Flash is getting hit by ridiculous things in comics and other media, that it not apply here. Its in his powers, so its not breaking any rules. I've been stressing that for quite some time now. My point was that using speedblitzing in the beginning of any debate simply takes away from it, which it does. Your analogy is also quite flawed as well, and Hulk's ability and Flash's aren't comparable as one is involuntary and one isn't. You should read the Hulk vs. Flash thread, it was quite good and I supported Flash in it.

Originally posted by newjak86
Its not teh same you see Kitty was offering just to get through.

Flash Vibrating as fast as he could would literally hit the shield. He would then start to based on his atoms Vibrating would begin to dissapte what is holding Mags together.

Basically think about the idea behind Mags power and the shield. Bsically it is his ability to hold bonds together to repel attacks brought on him. Flash Vibrating would take those binds as soon as he touched the area Mag's shield would also begin to vibrate tearing the shield or forcefield apart. By the time Mags would think of repulling them together and holding them steady Flash would already be KOing Mags because of his speed advantage

As soon as he makes contact with the shield he's still going to have to deal with the concentrated EM energy backlash. This energy could literally stop him from vibrating and pull his particles together causing him to solidify half way into the shield.

Also even though I understand Flash phase through Mags' shield is different to Kitty's, the idea of the phase ie the dissassemblement of particles is the same Makes caused Kitty to solidify with his EM Energy. So it's very probable that Flash would solidify half way through the shield.

BTW The idea that Mags holds his shield together like a telekinetic would mean a fatigued Magneto would have a weak shield.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
As soon as he makes contact with the shield he's still going to have to deal with the concentrated EM energy backlash. This energy could literally stop him from vibrating and pull his particles together causing him to solidify half way into the shield. You also have to hold the idea that Flash is vibrating really fast which causes a lot of energy as well.
Now once Flash came into contact with the area he would more than likely cause the atoms in the area to vibrate as well. As soon as they atarted to vibrate the bonds holding them togther would also begin to break.

Now as stated before Magneto could make an effort to reaffirm the bonds but since Flash is so much faster by the time Realized what was happening it would already be to late.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
People should state forcefields (or other conditions) to stop this cheap speedblitzing, particularly from fanboys. Even though it does work, it destroys the point of the match. You look down a page and its all you see...

Flash is one of my favorite Super Hero's btw, so don't call me a "DC" hater...

just cause i say the flash win by useing his powers im not a flash fanboy.

the fact is sure i like flash to and i like mags just as much but mags really cant do aything to harm him at all. becaue flash would be so fast it would appear to him that mags is not moveing at all and then he would hit mags as hard as he can in muti places muti times and win.

and it may take away from the fight but that is why you almost never see him do it in the comics like that because their would be like one page. were this is a forum not a comic so we can use him to is best of abilty with out worrying about comic page shortness.

Does that make sense?

Hmm, whatever he chooses to by the speedforce, make clones, whirlwinds, go back in time, Infinity Mass Punch. For a person trying to be a smartass you really don't do a good job of it.



No it really isn't, I understand and argue quite well that the fact that Flash is getting hit by ridiculous things in comics and other media, that it not apply here. Its in his powers, so its not breaking any rules. I've been stressing that for quite some time now. My point was that using speedblitzing in the beginning of any debate simply takes away from it, which it does. Your analogy is also quite flawed as well, and Hulk's ability and Flash's aren't comparable as one is involuntary and one isn't. You should read the Hulk vs. Flash thread, it was quite good and I supported Flash in it.

You just said it yourself by the speedforce and wouldnt you say thats connected to his speed for which you claimed was cheap.

I really dont see how my analogy is flawed now you do know i was talking about hulk and not banner right? Hulks power is strenght and lets say he was fighting someone like Rhino the argument would be that hulk would knock out Rhino because he was stronger.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
People should state forcefields (or other conditions) to stop this cheap speedblitzing, particularly from fanboys. Even though it does work, it destroys the point of the match. You look down a page and its all you see...

Flash is one of my favorite Super Hero's btw, so don't call me a "DC" hater...

I agree 100%. For some reason a lot of people don't seem to take into account the speed discrepancy that exists between many Marvel and DC characters when they create threads. All it would take is for the thread starter to just to ban that specific tactic at the beginning or give the fighters time to turn on any defensive shields/abilities they have.


Still even if Mags had his shields us at the start, I don't see how Magneto could win this fight. All Flash would have to do is "steal" all of the kinetic energy from Magneto's body. Thus frozen his shields would go down and the Flash can easily kill/k.o. him.

Originally posted by newjak86
You also have to hold the idea that Flash is vibrating really fast which causes a lot of energy as well.
Now once Flash came into contact with the area he would more than likely cause the atoms in the area to vibrate as well. As soon as they atarted to vibrate the bonds holding them togther would also begin to break.

Now as stated before Magneto could make an effort to reaffirm the bonds but since Flash is so much faster by the time Realized what was happening it would already be to late.

If Mags' shield solely reallied on him holding the particles of his shield together via Force then a Fatigued Magneto's shield wouldn't be able to stand against anything. But it does meaning the scientific concept is what makes the shield so great.

As for the Energy produced with the Flash's first vibration into the shield it'll dissipate like any other attack.
The idea that Flash once inside the shield can break it is plausible but the problem is the instant the Flash touches the shield he is going to feel the EM backlash meaning he'll solidify, the force produced by the initial attack will dissipate so that won't be any help. Basically this means the Flash won't be able to get into the shield without solidifying the instant he makes contact with it.



I don't have a counter for that, what's the concept behind Flash's Kinetic steal? How does he do it?

I just explained this, but here we go again...

Originally posted by Sea King
just cause i say the flash win by useing his powers im not a flash fanboy. Of course saying a character wins by using his powers doesn't make you a fanboy. It never does, the fanboys know who they are, and people know what it takes to be viewed as one by allies/opponents. Like I said, Flash is one of my favorite characters, and IS my favorite character in DC, and I like him moreso than Magneto. Anyways, Flash hardly has the fanboy following of some around here. I will mention that the people who get the most offended by this when I haven't addressed them are usually DC fanboys lol, (not saying you are one).

Originally posted by Sea King
the fact is sure i like flash to and i like mags just as much but mags really cant do aything to harm him at all. becaue flash would be so fast it would appear that mags is not moveing at all and then he would win. That is debateable in itself, (if Magneto had his shielding before the match and all), he could secure some immediate advantages, and take loads of damage, this was a highly debated topic a few months back.

Originally posted by Sea King
and it may take away from the fight but that is why you almost never see him do it in the comics like that because their would be like one page. Like I said, in comic forums PIS is excluded, I understand that.

Originally posted by Sea King
were this is a forum not a comic so we can use him to is best of abilty with out worrying about comic page shortness. If a member wishes to make a thread and is honestly curious who would win, it is usually greater help to give him other strategies by which a character can win, other than "Speedblitz", a member who was mocking me just asked what else Flash can do, therefore it helps to have a more in depth thread, and usually good threads like that keep duplicates from spawning up.

Mags has super strength so it'll take a lot of punishment to put him down, and by the time it would start affecting him, he would have the flash suspended in the air ripping him apart and incinerating the peices.

to those who say that Flash could simply speedblitz him or vibrate through his sheilds, read JLA issue #59 (the title .. The Chilling Joke) and see how Dr. Polaris (DC's version of Magneto) punked the whole JLA and esp flash

Originally posted by sexyking
You just said it yourself by the speedforce and wouldnt you say thats connected to his speed for which you claimed was cheap. You still misunderstand, I'm not saying, "Flash shouldn't be able to use his speed because its cheap!!!" I'm saying, "speedblitzing at the beginning of each and every conceivable match against a character who does NOT have extraordinary durability, takes away from the matches, because it doesn't allow for other strategies to be established and utilized."

That goes for any fast character, not just Flash. If this thread was say, Superman vs. Magneto, I would say the same thing.

Originally posted by sexyking
I really dont see how my analogy is flawed now you do know i was talking about hulk and not banner right? Hulks power is strenght and lets say he was fighting someone like Rhino the argument would be that hulk would knock out Rhino because he was stronger. IMP's, Clones, etc. are totally voluntary abilities and are "tactics" that Flash could use in a given matchup.

Something such as Juggernaut's durability for example, can't be turned on and off, so me saying "Juggernaut will be durable" isn't a tactic because he's always like that no different than a heartbeat. That is different than me saying, "Juggernaut will make a forcefield". That is voluntary and therefore a tactic that would be directed at the opponent in this matchup.

Originally posted by complexbrother
Mags has super strength so it'll take a lot of punishment to put him down, and by the time it would start affecting him, he would have the flash suspended in the air ripping him apart and incinerating the peices.

to those who say that Flash could simply speedblitz him or vibrate through his sheilds, read JLA issue #59 (the title .. The Chilling Joke) and see how Dr. Polaris (DC's version of Magneto) punked the whole JLA and esp flash
Magneto has normal HUMAN strength. He can lift great weights using his powers over magnetism. The speed force punch which occurs 1 picosecond after the fight starts puts him down.

Originally posted by badabing
Magneto has normal HUMAN strength. He can lift great weights using his powers over magnetism. The speed force punch which occurs 1 picosecond after the fight starts puts him down.

I think what he meant is that Magneto has two more layers of protection after his shield.

The Second layer is his clothes which is made out of dense metal.

And the last layer is the electromagnetic energy stored in his body. Which amps up his durability and strength and allows him to take punches to the face from heavy hitters like Colossus and Namor.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You still misunderstand, I'm not saying, "Flash shouldn't be able to use his speed because its cheap!!!" I'm saying, "speedblitzing at the beginning of each and every conceivable match against a character who does NOT have extraordinary durability, takes away from the matches, because it doesn't allow for other strategies to be established and utilized."

That goes for any fast character, not just Flash. If this thread was say, Superman vs. Magneto, I would say the same thing.

IMP's, Clones, etc. are totally voluntary abilities and are "tactics" that Flash could use in a given matchup.


Something such as Juggernaut's durability for example, can't be turned on and off, so me saying "Juggernaut will be durable" isn't a tactic because he's always like that no different than a heartbeat. That is different than me saying, "Juggernaut will make a forcefield". That is voluntary and therefore a tactic that would be directed at the opponent in this matchup.


I can understand your reasoning you dont want to turn this into a bias fight or an uneven match. Although what it seems your saying is that flash shouldnt speed blitz magneto because its not fair on magneto, this is a fight and althought your logic for saying give mags a shot is to provide a fight but the simple logic of it is the flash is capable of ending the fight in seconds fair or not.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I think what he meant is that Magneto has two more layers of protection after his shield.

The Second layer is his clothes which is made out of dense metal.

And the last layer is the electromagnetic energy stored in his body. Which amps up his durability and strength and allows him to take punches to the face from heavy hitters like Colossus and Namor.
Thanks for clearing that up.

Originally posted by badabing
Thanks for clearing that up.

You're welcome...but personally I don't think that's going to do much if Flash steals his speed unless the EM energy some how protects Eric which is a longshot.

There's no counter for that move...or at least none that I can think of.

Eh they should have a crossover again...this time Mags should get a chance to fight.

Imagine a Quicksilver/Flash rematch with HOM Wanda warping reality.

Originally posted by sexyking
I can understand your reasoning you dont want to turn this into a bias fight or an uneven match. Although what it seems your saying is that flash shouldnt speed blitz magneto because its not fair on magneto, this is a fight and althought you logic for saying give mags a shot is to provide a fight but the simple logic of it is the flash is capable of ending the fight in seconds fair or not. No I just explained that I wasn't saying that and he does win, I was saying to get a better debate to use something to cause balance etc etc etc. Noone is arguing that he loses, just that it destroys a debate...

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No I just explained that I wasn't saying that and he does win, I was saying to get a better debate to use something to cause balance etc etc etc. Noone is arguing that he loses, just that it destroys a debate...

OK fair enough it destroys a debate but people are only basing it solely on what they know and that is the flash is freaking unbelievably fast and so they state that. And to expect a logical debate in on here when one of the characters has such a high advantage is not plausible.


All in all there is no need for a debate because Flash smokes Magneto.

Originally posted by sexyking
OK fair enough it destroys a debate but people are only basing it solely on what they know and that is the flash is freaking unbelievably fast and so they state that. And to expect a logical debate on here when one of the characters has such a high advantage is not plausible.


All in all there is no need for a debate because Flash smokes Magneto.

Originally posted by sexyking
All in all there is no need for a debate because Flash smokes Magneto.

True so wouldn't this be considered an spite thread then?

Originally posted by sexyking
OK fair enough it destroys a debate but people are only basing it solely on what they know and that is the flash is freaking unbelievably fast and so they state that. And to expect a logical debate in on here when one of the characters has such a high advantage is not plausible.


All in all there is no need for a debate because Flash smokes Magneto. That's what I'm trying to say...

Although with the knowledge of that it does almost kind of make it spitey lol... which is why I was saying not to make a thread where there was "no need for a debate".

The thread starter could have stated that Magneto starts the battle with his shields up. Then there would have been a large debate.

Originally posted by badabing
The thread starter could have stated that Magneto starts the battle with his shields up. Then there would have been a large debate. Exactly, all debates focus around one or two points anyways. It's a given that he would win with speedblitz, so make it so it isn't a given.

Mags Bio ...

Magneto is a mutant with the superhuman power of magnetokinesis. Magneto can shape and manipulate magnetic fields that exist naturally or artificially. As the Master of Magnetism, he can lift, move, and alter objects (sometimes weighing many thousands of tons) through magnetic force, manipulate the iron-enriched blood-flow to one's brain to induce aneurysms or unconsciousness, control ferrous particles in the atmosphere, alter the Earth's magnetic field which extends into space as the magnetosphere, increase his own strength, erect electro-magnetic force fields with a high degree of impenetrability (protecting himself or others from almost any psionic, energy, or physical attack), and achieve a wide range of other effects. Magneto has even used his magnetic abilities to extract the Adamantium bonded to Wolverine's skeleton, by manipulating it on a molecular level. With the primal force of nature at his command, Magneto has stopped armies, raised islands from ocean floors, moved mountains and threatened to devastate the world with apocalyptic floods and earthquakes. Magneto once blanketed half the globe with a self-generated electro-magnetic pulse that caused widespread devastation.

Magneto can use his magnetic powers in more than one way simultaneously. He can completely assemble a complicated machine within seconds through his powers. Although Magneto often gestures when using his magnetic powers, he can utilize them fully even when standing totally still merely by concentrating. His ability to wield his superhuman powers effectively is dependent upon his physical condition. When severely injured, his body is unable to withstand the strain of manipulating great amounts of magnetic forces. When his powers are not at their peak, he appears to have greater difficulty controlling forces other than magnetism.


The Master of MagnetismMagneto usually protects himself with a personal forcefield that he can quickly expand to protect large areas. His forcefield has withstood the effects of multiple nuclear weapons, volcanic eruption, the depths of space and attacks from multiple Avengers or X-men, as well as Phoenix, Thor, and even Galactus (during the Secret Wars.) By concentrating Magneto can perceive the world around himself solely as patterns of magnetic and electrical energy. He can perceive the natural magnetic auras surrounding living beings, as well.

Although Magneto's primary power is magnetism, he seems to have some ability to project or manipulate any form of energy that is related to the electromagnetic spectrum. He can fire and absorb bolts of electricity and magnetic force, reverse lasers and other forms of radiation or energy, create enough intense heat as infrared radiation to destroy a metal door, and become invisible by deflecting visible light around his body. (He has also dispersed a "flame cage" created by the original Human Torch, but whether he had simply expanded his personal force field or employed something else entirely is unclear.) In both Excalibur (vol. 3) and the possible future of X-Men: The End, Magneto uses his powers to create a traversable wormhole between two points in space. If this is an extension of his primary power, it suggests a connection between electromagnetism, gravitation and spacetime that is beyond current (real-world) scientific understanding.

A mastermind, Magneto is a genius within various scientific fields. He is an expert on genetic manipulation and engineering, with knowledge far beyond that of contemporary science. He can mutate humans in order to give them superhuman powers, instill genetic mind-control, create adult clones of human beings, and then manipulate the genetic structures of these clones during their development. He has designed magnetically-powered skycraft and spacecraft, complex robots and computers, and magnetically-powered generators. He has created artificial living beings, space stations (said to possess technology even Reed Richards would envy), and machines that nullify mutant powers within a radius of several miles.

Magneto is a skilled strategist and hand-to-hand combatant.


Equipment
Magneto's suit is made of flexible metal bonded on the molecular level, providing protection against projectiles, energy weapons, and concussive force. His helmet, which is constructed out of the same metal as Charles Xavier's Cerebro, allows him to keep telepathic attacks from harming him and also shields his mind from Cerebro.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Read the rules of the Forum.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t308157.html

"Bloodlust

It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first picosecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed..."

Also:

"Prep time

Neither side receives any notable prep time before the starting bell. Neither side may take any offensive or defensive actions before the starting bell. Planning is allowed and powers that are automatic or 'always on' can be up, but actions such as setting up forcefields, taking flight, or consciously activating powers is not...."

TheKahn is the shit, you have earned my respect

Originally posted by A.J
TheKahn is the shit, you have earned my respect
Where have you been hiding?

yeah u have been gon forever.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I think it's more of a field then a shield, I think you may be right about the projectile thing but instead of him holding the particles together like a TK shield I believe he moves electrons in and out of the shield compensating for the force by using charge to get it.(Again I'll have to re-read Fatal Attractions).

But if the Flash does make contact with the field in his dissassembled form what about the Electromagnetic Backlash that Kitty Pryde felt when she tried to move her particles through the concentrated EM Energy? Kitty Pryde never tried to phase through his shields. And it wasn't a backlash it was an active assault on Magneto's part.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Kitty Pryde never tried to phase through his shields. And it wasn't a backlash it was an active assault on Magneto's part.

She tried to phase through his body which is basically filled with the same energy as his shield.
I remember both of them getting shocked and then Magneto further hurting her by some EM jolt.

She hurt Magneto when she disrupted his natural electromagnetic field akin to how she disrupts electronics. He sent a jolt of energy into her body which hurt her, despite the fact that she can take a nuke at ground zero. It was an active assault at least from what I recall.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
She hurt Magneto when she disrupted his natural electromagnetic field akin to how she disrupts electronics. He sent a jolt of energy into her body which hurt her, despite the fact that she can take a nuke at ground zero. It was an active assault at least from what I recall.

Hmm...I'll go check again, but the same thing occured when she attempted to phase through Vulcan. Both of them got shocked(Kitty was worse off).

BTW Didn't he cause her to solidify when he sent a jolt of energy through her body?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Hmm...I'll go check again, but the same thing occured when she attempted to phase through Vulcan. Both of them got shocked(Kitty was worse off).

BTW Didn't he cause her to solidify when he sent a jolt of energy through her body? That should only happen when she passes through adamantium...

If she did solidify she would have killed him.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That should only happen when she passes through adamantium...

If she did solidify she would have killed him.

Wasn't she running through his computers and he was like "My computers" and she was like " " and then he was like " " and then he did something to her phased body and she was knocked unconscious...I think he forced her to solidify?

Here's the Vulcan scan from his respect thread...I'll have to scan the Magneto one tommorrow since he doesn't have one.(I have to wake up at 7 for driving lessons, I need sleep...)

http://img83.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmdg06237wh.jpg

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
You're still assuming that the energy produced by the Flashes phase won't get nullified before it reaches the shield. If the energy produced from the Dark Phoenix and Galactus couldn't rip apart the particles then the energy produced by the Flash's phase shouldn't. good point

I like magneto more but there is noway he can win
flash 10/10

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Wasn't she running through his computers and he was like "My computers" and she was like " " and then he was like " " and then he did something to her phased body and she was knocked unconscious...I think he forced her to solidify?

Here's the Vulcan scan from his respect thread...I'll have to scan the Magneto one tommorrow since he doesn't have one.(I have to wake up at 7 for driving lessons, I need sleep...)

http://img83.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmdg06237wh.jpg Nyaaeeeiii vs Aahh and his speech bubble is all wonky too.

I don't recall him forcing her to solidify. I remember her being phased into him and him sending a jolt into her while she was phased into him. All this was while she was a novice, and before her intangibility became her natural state.

If she can phase into his electromagnetic energy I don't see why Flash can't.

flash would win this fight if mags don't start in the air first. but anyways flash is a great hero with good powers but he is still very beatable. there is many people in marvel and dc that could beat him. plus the way the witer's show him in comics don't get me wrong he has some really hight feats but alot of the time he acts like a fool. here is a list of people that will kick flash ass

spawn
thor
martian manhunter the guy gets no respect on these forums sad
silver surfer
gl hal or kyle
thanos
superman
and many more

Originally posted by newjak86
even if he did get up what is to keep Flash from simply vibrating through it.

Ask Vision and Shadowcat about that one. He controls electromagnetism on an atomic level, and the levels of forces exterted between subatomic particles. Flash wouldn't be able to faze through it, but he'd still kill Magneto 10/10 before he could even comprehend a thought.

Originally posted by newjak86
The problem is that Kitty Phases however that works we don't know for sure but it isn't the sane as Vibrating through.

You Mag's shields is nothing more than him using the atoms around to power his shield. The thing about Flash's Vibration is that it isn't going through his shield but it would literally be tearing apart the atoms that make it up.

I think that about sums it up as to why Flash would defeat Magnetos shields, and then Flash has IMP's too.

Originally posted by badabing
Magneto has normal HUMAN strength. He can lift great weights using his powers over magnetism. The speed force punch which occurs 1 picosecond after the fight starts puts him down.

No. He can increase his strength to Class 100 through electromagnetic manipulation.

Originally posted by Jesse7
I think that about sums it up as to why Flash would defeat Magnetos shields, and then Flash has IMP's too.

No, not really. Magneto can make the bonds in Flash's atomic structure not be able to make it through the shield. Not to mention the fact that his shield can be set to repel photons in general so Flash wouldn't even have a prayer to make it through that kind of shield.

Why is this still in discussion

Magneto is over his head here.

He gets owned

Flash 100/10

100/10 is an illogical statement, and is impossible, similar to these overpowered fictional characters like flash and magneto.

Originally posted by Whittdawg92
100/10 is an illogical statement, and is impossible, similar to these overpowered fictional characters like flash and magneto.
Flash 1,000/100

hilarious.

Originally posted by batdude123
No, not really. Magneto can make the bonds in Flash's atomic structure not be able to make it through the shield. Not to mention the fact that his shield can be set to repel photons in general so Flash wouldn't even have a prayer to make it through that kind of shield. Speculatory. Magneto can manipulate electromagnetic force and so can consciously repel light. Despite what demigawd may try to assert, he's never shown any indication of the ability to manipulate weak force or strong force. And I don't recall him ever manipulating organic matter at an atomic level or otherwise.

It's been slow here, I was just having a bit of fun.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Speculatory. Magneto can manipulate electromagnetic force and so can consciously repel light. Despite what demigawd may try to assert, he's never shown any indication of the ability to manipulate weak force or strong force. And I don't recall him ever manipulating organic matter at an atomic level or otherwise.

Um, you were a judge in our match and this statement frightens the hell outta me. fear Did you look at all the pics DC posted?

Originally posted by batdude123
Um, you were a judge in our match and this statement frightens the hell outta me. fear Did you look at all the pics DC posted? I've seen them before. I know he's manipulated gravitational force on a small and crude scale. I don't recall seeing him manipulate weak force and strong force. Covalent bonds. Hydrogen bonds. Van der Waals forces.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I've seen them before. I know he's manipulated gravitational force on a small and crude scale. I don't recall seeing him manipulate weak force and strong force.

Yeah, you've seen the scans of Magneto manipulating his shields down to an atomic level then. You've also seen the scans of him making his shields able to reflect photons all together...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Covalent bonds. Hydrogen bonds. Van der Waals forces.

Nobody said he could manipulate that, just the electromagnetic energy holding particles together.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah, you've seen the scans of Magneto manipulating his shields down to an atomic level then. You've also seen the scans of him making his shields able to reflect photons all together... Consciously affecting photons, his shields are still translucent.

Down to an atomic level. What because he can fly in space. I'm going to need a little more than that sorry. I've read through demigawds very long speculatory posts about how the shield operates based on a comic I can't verify the existence of.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Consciously affecting photons, his shields are still translucent.

He's used his powers to make his shields deflect light and cloud his senses so...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Down to an atomic level. What because he can fly in space. I'm going to need a little more than that sorry. I've read through demigawds very long speculatory posts about how the shield operates based on a comic I can't verify the existence of.

Flying in space? I don't think I ever said anything about that. Demigawd was a wierdo.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Nyaaeeeiii vs Aahh and his speech bubble is all wonky too.

I don't recall him forcing her to solidify. I remember her being phased into him and him sending a jolt into her while she was phased into him. All this was while she was a novice, and before her intangibility became her natural state.

If she can phase into his electromagnetic energy I don't see why Flash can't.

Hmm... Vulcan gets right up after the phase and blasts everyone on the next page before Kitty does.


I'll go re-check that, but if EM Energy is responsible for the intermolecular forces between particles ie Van de Waals, Covalent, H-Bonding, dipole-dipole etc then a disassembled object being forced into a concentrated dose of EM Energy should cause it to solidify.

BTW What's the name of this comic Demigawd was talking about?

Rn't those examples of strong and weak nuclear forces? Totally different kind of energy from EM.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Rn't those examples of strong and weak nuclear forces? Totally different kind of energy from EM.

Don't Strong and Weak nucleur forces only act in the nucleus? And I'm pretty sure EM energy is responsible for intermolecular bonding. I think weak force extends into the shells of the atoms but not into the intermolecular forces of the molecules.

Strong and Weak I think are responsible for intramolecular bonding.

BTW I'm scanning the comic now, first they show Kitty running threw his computers, Magneto approaches her and he's angry. He grabs her hand then they write that she phases through him(They don't show it on panel). In the next panel you see both Kitty's and Magnetos face in a state of pain with Kittys hand threw Mags' head and then they write that he sends a jolt threw her. So in the following pannel she's knocked out.

In other words she didn't solidify or it would kill him.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Hmm... Vulcan gets right up after the phase and blasts everyone on the next page before Kitty does.Vulcan's more powerful than Kitty... duh. But frankly the depiction indicates it hurt him more than her.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I'll go re-check that, but if EM Energy is responsible for the intermolecular forces between particles ie Van de Waals, Covalent, H-Bonding, dipole-dipole etc then a disassembled object being forced into a concentrated dose of EM Energy should cause it to solidify.

BTW What's the name of this comic Demigawd was talking about? That's a pretty big stretch, if you were to jolt a gas it wouldn't solidify.

Some Magneto Oneshot which wikipedia says exists, but I can't find. And the wikipedia entry only says it's a collection of old Magneto stories anyway. He says it provides some highly in depth explanation of Magneto's shield.

And I didn't say those intermolecular forces are strong and weak force, I was saying he's never been shown to manipulate intermolecular forces on anything other than metals iirc.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
In other words she didn't solidify or it would kill him.
Vulcan's more powerful than Kitty... duh. But frankly the depiction indicates it hurt him more than her.
That's a pretty big stretch, if you were to jolt a gas it wouldn't solidify.

Some Magneto Oneshot which wikipedia says exists, but I can't find. And the wikipedia entry only says it's a collection of old Magneto stories anyway. He says it provides some highly in depth explanation of Magneto's shield.

And I didn't say those intermolecular forces are strong and weak force, I was saying he's never been shown to manipulate intermolecular forces on anything other than metals iirc.

Point taken...

If you were to place a gas in a small concentrated room of EM energy then would it solidify? The particles can't move in the room because there's no space to move so they become compacted together and solidify.

If she solidified when she stuck her hand through his head then yeah he would have died, but since her primary state is her phased form, it means whatever he did caused her to solidify when he knocked her out otherwise her body would have remained phased.

As for the intermolecular forces thing, the concept behind it is basically the same for both metals and non metals so he should be able to manipulate it especially when he can manipulate blood which is non-ferrous. He can manipulate electron flow(Brain synapses) as well which basically means he's able to manipulate all intermolecular forces.

Is there an arc name for that particular set of books?

None of these are the pages yet I'm going page by page. I'll get there soon.

http://img12.imagevenue.com/loc320/th_09916__hr_Page_22_320lo.jpghttp://img13.imagevenue.com/loc484/th_10296__hr_Page_23_484lo.jpghttp://img156.imagevenue.com/loc545/th_10931__hr_Page_24_545lo.jpghttp://img17.imagevenue.com/loc393/th_11214__hr_Page_25_393lo.jpghttp://img12.imagevenue.com/loc529/th_11365__hr_Page_26_529lo.jpghttp://img13.imagevenue.com/loc420/th_11615__hr_Page_27_420lo.jpghttp://img137.imagevenue.com/loc393/th_12010__hr_Page_28_393lo.jpghttp://img22.imagevenue.com/loc374/th_12261__hr_Page_29_374lo.jpg http://img31.imagevenue.com/loc575/th_12796__hr_Page_30_575lo.jpg

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Point taken...

If you were to place a gas in a small concentrated room of EM energy then would it solidify? The particles can't move in the room because there's no space to move so they become compacted together and solidify.

If she solidified when she stuck her hand through his head then yeah he would have died, but since her primary state is her phased form, it means whatever he did caused her to solidify when he knocked her out otherwise her body would have remained phased.

As for the intermolecular forces thing, the concept behind it is basically the same for both metals and non metals so he should be able to manipulate it especially when he can manipulate blood which is non-ferrous. He can manipulate electron flow(Brain synapses) as well which basically means he's able to all manipulate intermolecular forces. 1. Gas will bypass liquid phase and solidify when exposed to electromagnetic radiation? If anything the addition of energy would only excites the molecules further.

2. Note the ridiculous costume. This is before intangibility became her natural state.

3. When he manipulates blood it's because writers ignore that hemoglobin isn't ferromagnetic, when he manipulates synapses it's because writers view it as no different to electricity.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
1. Gas will bypass liquid phase and solidify when exposed to electromagnetic radiation? If anything the addition of energy would only excites the molecules further.

2. Note the ridiculous costume. This is before intangibility became her natural state.

3. When he manipulates blood it's because writers ignore that hemoglobin isn't ferromagnetic, when he manipulates synapses it's because writers view it as no different to electricity.

Then why is it the case that the stronger the EM Force between molecules the stronger the bonds? If there is no where to move then in this case it won't be a gas any more under such high pressure and such high force being applied on each particle.

Shouldn't it have always been her natural state? Even before they explained it in the comics? When she phased through Vulcan she was also forced into her solid form.

Even though it's ridiculous and the writers are to blame, he still does it. I mean the whole worm hole thing was just shocking.

Here are the rest of the pages. Note that this is her trying to phase through his body not his shield. She phases through him distrupt his aura, then on the next page he jolts her which knocks her unconcious. Of course nobody really knows what would happen if she attempted to phase through that shield especially when it nullifies physical and energy attacks.
On the last page it says Kitty was in her phased form when she recieves the jolt that reassembles her. That's how she survived the attack. Meaning a concentrated dose of EM energy would render her hurt and solid again just like Vulcan.

http://img45.imagevenue.com/loc525/th_13604__hr_Page_32_525lo.jpg http://img16.imagevenue.com/loc422/th_14389__hr_Page_33_422lo.jpg http://img103.imagevenue.com/loc329/th_14450__hr_Page_34_329lo.jpg http://img151.imagevenue.com/loc537/th_14650__hr_Page_35_537lo.jpg http://img9.imagevenue.com/loc372/th_14857__hr_Page_36_372lo.jpg http://img149.imagevenue.com/loc307/th_15094__hr_Page_37_307lo.jpg

She doesn't receive a shock phasing into him. She's only harmed because he apparently electrocutes her.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Then why is it the case that the stronger the EM Force between molecules the stronger the bonds? If there is no where to move then in this case it won't be a gas any more under such high pressure and such high force being applied on each particle.

Shouldn't it have always been her natural state? Even before they explained it in the comics? When she phased through Vulcan she was also forced into her solid form.

Even though it's ridiculous and the writers are to blame, he still does it. I just had a look at it. Firstly, he did not even jolt her with electromagnetic radiation, he jolted her with electricity. Secondly, if he did jolt her with anything it would have been energy not electromagnetic force. Thirdly even if he had jolted her with electromagnetic force, he has never shown a fine control of the intermolecular forces in organic matter - thus it's specious to assume that a crudely applied electromagnetic force would cause her to solidify.

When one takes into account she regularly phases into electronic equipment and the electricity flowing through it, the manner in which he supposedly nearly killed her such an incident would seem very plot induced for current Kitty Pryde.

No it wasn't her natural state at the time. And no if she was forced to solidify due to phasing through Vulcan she would have killed him.

Yes, the writers are to blame. But the fact that he can manipulate blood or electrical impulses doesn't give any credence to a view that he can manipulate the molecular and atomic structure of non-metallic objects or beings. Both of these, blood and brain, are explained by his control over simple magnetism and electricity respectively.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
She doesn't receive a shock phasing into him. She's only harmed because he apparently electrocutes her.
I just had a look at it. Firstly, he did not even jolt her with electromagnetic radiation, he jolted her with electricity. Secondly, if he did jolt her with anything it would have been energy not electromagnetic force. Thirdly even if he had jolted her with electromagnetic force, he has never shown a fine control of the intermolecular forces in organic matter - thus it's specious to assume that a crudely applied electromagnetic force would cause her to solidify.

When one takes into account she regularly phases into electronic equipment and the electricity flowing through it, the manner in which he supposedly nearly killed her such an incident would seem very plot induced for current Kitty Pryde.

No it wasn't her natural state at the time. And no if she was forced to solidify due to phasing through Vulcan she would have killed him.

Yes, the writers are to blame. But the fact that he can manipulate blood or electrical impulses doesn't give any credence to a view that he can manipulate the molecular and atomic structure of non-metallic objects or beings. Both of these, blood and brain, are explained by his control over simple magnetism and electricity respectively.

Isn't electricity the flow of electrons? And since he has been shown to have fine control over particles which are the same size as the non-metallic objects then surely he's able to manipulate them too via intermolecular bonding as the concept is the same and the EM force is still the same.

True it could be PIS on Kitty's part but then again she has never has never gone up against a machine that could force her molecules together. Who knows what the nature of that attack was but we know it knocked her out.

The nature of Energy wielders bodies are unknown, if Kitty got stuck in Iceman would she kill him? Vulcans body IMO is just energy but thats off the point she was forced into her solid form after she phased through him he got up and blasted everyone, and she got blasted too.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Isn't electricity the flow of electrons? And since he has been shown to have fine control over particles which are the same size as the non-metallic objects then surely he's able to manipulate them too via intermolecular bonding as the concept is the same and the EM force is still the same.What particles are you referring to? Metallic bonding and intermolecular bonds are dissimilar.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
True it could be PIS on Kitty's part but then again she has never has never gone up against a machine that could force her molecules together. Who knows what the nature of that attack was but we know it knocked her out.Nor has she gone up against a human who can. Because Magneto has yet to shown such a level of molecular control of organic matter.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
The nature of Energy wielders bodies are unknown, if Kitty got stuck in Iceman would she kill him? Vulcans body IMO is just energy but thats off the point she was forced into her solid form after she phased through him he got up and blasted everyone, and she got blasted too. There's nothing to indicate Vulcan's body is just energy so I don't know what you're basing your opinion on. She assumes a solid form via conscious control of her abilities, as stated her natural form is intangible. She normally assumes a solid form. He did not force anything.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Read the rules of the Forum.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t308157.html

"Bloodlust

It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first picosecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed..."

Also:

"Prep time

Neither side receives any notable prep time before the starting bell. Neither side may take any offensive or defensive actions before the starting bell. Planning is allowed and powers that are automatic or 'always on' can be up, but actions such as setting up forcefields, taking flight, or consciously activating powers is not...."

You have to do that to BOTH characters, last i heard.

Why then are you trying to make Magneto dumb enough to NOT make use of a shiled when he ALWAYS does that? He goes to fights already shielded.

Now, how about examples of situations where Flash took someone without the figtht even starting or at Marvel, speedesters owning Mags? Then you have some base to sit on.

Originally posted by olympian
Why then are you trying to make Magneto dumb enough to NOT make use of a shiled when he ALWAYS does that? He goes to fights already shielded. Sure he does.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9597/gabmagsze6.th.jpg

I appreciate scans but, can they at least be on a readable size?

That one is with who for example? Gambit?

In what context was that? Wer they talking and he cheap shot him? Prof X attacked him first? What?

Readable size? They're imageshack links. His shield is not even close to always being up.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6127/xmen11313nh6.th.jpg
Zakkt.

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/7383/xmen11315ax9.th.jpg
Tonk.

Yes readable. When i open the link its too small to read or even check anything. At least when i open...What event was that one? When he took Logans adamantium off his body?

And i bet i can find more examples of Flash not beating an opponent even after the figth starts than Mags not shield himself up. Thats his usual thing. Now obviously if he doesnt and hes just talking or being dumb, then Flash has what it takes to beat him.

Wharever Mags shows up using his powers, Flash wont be able to do much.

His usual thing? I'm currently looking through his appearances. Half his fights he doesn't have a forcefield. Other times he's moved within the supposed infinite inertia forcefield that nothing can move and that instantly repels everything.

It says at the bottom of my last scan above 980x1500 260kb... that's the image size.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9053/xmenv208707rougherin7.th.jpghttp://img137.imageshack.us/img137/60/xmenv208708rougherpm8.th.jpg

The Flash.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
What particles are you referring to? Metallic bonding and intermolecular bonds are dissimilar.
Nor has she gone up against a human who can. Because Magneto has yet to shown such a level of molecular control of organic matter.
There's nothing to indicate Vulcan's body is just energy so I don't know what you're basing your opinion on. She assumes a solid form via conscious control of her abilities, as stated her natural form is intangible. She normally assumes a solid form. He did not force anything.

The phenomena Metallic Bonding and Intermolecular bonds still require the same ingredients to occur. The Electrostatic Force in the Crystal Lattic is part of the EM Force. Anyway it's the writers fault.

If Magneto's shield is completely sealed off in space so Oxygen molecules don't diffuse out of it then there's no way Kitty can pass her molecules around the particles of his shield that he so tightly compacts.
The Flash can take him both ways with his Kinetic steal but it doesn't really make much sense that he can phase his particles through it when other particles are shut out.

Point taken.

As for the Vulcan thing the energy thing was speculatory so it shouldn't mean much. She saw Gabriel get up so either it's PiS that she got hit again or his energy stopped her phasing.(Something similar to what he did to Rachel and Scott)


Not that any of that makes a difference Kinetic Steal beats Mags shield IMO.

Originally posted by Whittdawg92
wait, are we talkin both at full power? at full power, flash tries to run around a show off, and mags black holes him, or blows him up, or many other things.

Magneto is not Graviton. Black holes do not fall in his realm of power.

Exodus Cloak, this is ridiculous. Talking about double-standards. I don't see how you can argue crap like this and then try and critize my Storm arguments where there is canon that actually gives her the kind of power I debate with. Trying to compare Kitty and Flash is oranges and apples and its desperate. Flash beats Magneto easily. Mags has no defense against Flash's powers and Flash is too fast for Magneto's power to catch him without PIS working against Flash.

Magneto takes this.

Magneto's shields!

Magneto can tag blast Flash with projectiles.

Originally posted by Rutog98
Exodus Cloak, this is ridiculous. Talking about double-standards. I don't see how you can argue crap like this and then try and critize my Storm arguments where there is canon that actually gives her the kind of power I debate with. Trying to compare Kitty and Flash is oranges and apples and its desperate. Flash beats Magneto easily. Mags has no defense against Flash's powers and Flash is too fast for Magneto's power to catch him without PIS working against Flash.


LOL

Wow, did you see him trying to make magneto's control over metal translate into molecular control of other things??

Originally posted by Rutog98
Exodus Cloak, this is ridiculous. Talking about double-standards. I don't see how you can argue crap like this and then try and critize my Storm arguments where there is canon that actually gives her the kind of power I debate with. Trying to compare Kitty and Flash is oranges and apples and its desperate. Flash beats Magneto easily. Mags has no defense against Flash's powers and Flash is too fast for Magneto's power to catch him without PIS working against Flash.

Actually if you bothered to read, something which I know you're not very fond of you'll notice that I did say Flash wins in my first response and gave the obvious reason why. The debate was about whether phasing works on Magentos Shields. And if you look at the Magneto vs Exodus thread you'll see why I said that and I corrected myself. Because I remembered an incident where he forced Kitty to solidify turns out that wasn't Magneto but Exodus posing as Magneto which I went back and retraced. As for phasing into his shield I'm still not sure that Kitty Pryde could do that at the moment I don't know. I can't think of a single incident where something like that occured. However I still stand by my previous logic. If Kitty has to spin her molecules through the gaps of a medium in order to phase through it, and Mags' shield does not allow any O2 in or out when he's in space then I don't think Kitty's atoms should be able to pass through. Vision won't be able to pass through either because Mags has effected him in phased form.(His phasing is different to Kitty's). Manhunter should be able to get through Mags' shields since his phasing is different to both Visions and Kittys. I don't know the science behind how the Flash's phasing works.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I don't know the science behind how the Flash's phasing works.

DC comics doesnt realy use scientific back up as much as Marvel attempts to do... then again its comics so... even Marvels scientific statements arent persay true or people would actually have powers... Judging by how flash isnt limited to science, he wins 10/10

As far as I know, Flash's phasing is similar to Kitty's in that he vibrates his molecules or atoms in between the molecules or atoms of an object.

I don't know which one it is, if it goes back and forth, or if that's even the explanation anymore.

dur

Originally posted by 2damnloud
dur



dur

http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=classicxmen1909lm4.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/940/magripsapartneo7do.jpg
http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/2610/magtakesonplasticandceramic7lu.jpg
http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xforce2527ra0.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=visionandthescarletwitcts0.jpg

dur

http://marvel.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=79620&start=660&sid=884689932cb7a9d7327ec2995390ae36
http://herochat.com/forum/index.php?topic=122385.440
http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=38704&page=49&pp=20
http://hudlinentertainment.com/smf/index.php?topic=1524.90
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t450168.html

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
dur

http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=classicxmen1909lm4.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/940/magripsapartneo7do.jpg
http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/2610/magtakesonplasticandceramic7lu.jpg
http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xforce2527ra0.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=visionandthescarletwitcts0.jpg

dur

http://marvel.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=79620&start=660&sid=884689932cb7a9d7327ec2995390ae36
http://herochat.com/forum/index.php?topic=122385.440
http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=38704&page=49&pp=20
http://hudlinentertainment.com/smf/index.php?topic=1524.90
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t450168.html

dur



All examples of him applying a MAGNETIC field for ferrous, or what writes THINK are ferrous materials(hemoglobin for instance).

He can't apply magnetic field to ALL molecules because the atoms are RANDOMIZED, unlike ferrous metal.

Again, Manipulation of metal through magnetic fields IS his powers.

Manipulation of ALL matter with an atom or electron is NOT.

@ these kids, man

Oh, and Magneto dies before the sound of the proverbial "bell" even starts to leave the source, each and every time.....10/10.doped

The first post doesn't have any special stipulations - if they were added after the fact, I am unaware - I don't feel like reading through eight pages to figure it out.

However, assuming that special stipulations were NOT made - the Flash wins 10/10.

How does Flash get passed Maggs shields?

You guys say "speedblitz" and that takes time for the Flash to do when Maggs can call up his shields at will.

Mags wins.