Elizabeth Wants Jack Badly!

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



lady_captinjack
ok its been like 10 minutes since anyone said anything so im just going to start a new thing.......

i know there is like a million of these already but w/e. she wants him and she knows even if she doesnt want to believe it...she does

brokenxxheart14
yes i agree hehe shes in full denial but oh well she knows it.

lady_captinjack
what makes it hot is that jack wants her as much as she wants him

brokenxxheart14
yeaa thats true. was jack trying to get rid of will the whole time or is it just me? like on the beach scene right before the fight with the wheel....wen they all see will come on the island jacks like wut r u doing here or something like that. it was funny before wen liz says to him so everything u said was a lie shes says what? and then jack says wut haha idk the way he says it is funny

lady_captinjack
its true he was trying to get rid of him....but remeber when he was talking to davy jones about the 100 soals, he wanted davy jones to bring will back to the black pearl. then tried to covince him to.

brokenxxheart14
i was confused by that part with the whole davey jones souls thing? idk

lady_captinjack
yea it was a bit counfusing......why is no one talking?

ESB -1138
Originally posted by brokenxxheart14
yeaa thats true. was jack trying to get rid of will the whole time or is it just me? like on the beach scene right before the fight with the wheel....wen they all see will come on the island jacks like wut r u doing here or something like that. it was funny before wen liz says to him so everything u said was a lie shes says what? and then jack says wut haha idk the way he says it is funny

Actually because of that Jack was thinking "if Will is here that can only mean Davy Jones isn't that far off" or something. Jack was mainly trying to use Will to save his own skin.

brokenxxheart14
jack can be selfish

lady_captinjack
yes but hes very smooth when he uses people

brokenxxheart14
haha yea hes good at that.

lady_captinjack
so lets talk about something that hasnt come up yet.....how about that whole jack and liz kissing thing? lol

brokenxxheart14
haha thats only been talked about foreverrrrrr im pretty sure everyone liked that lol. the 1st time i saw it i really wasnt expecting it at all

lady_captinjack
well my sister told me that was going to happen b4 i saw the movie and i was pissed at her for that. but when i saw the preview and saw that jack and liz were about to kiss i got really excited!

lovethemtigers
I knew Jack and Liz were going to kiss too - before seeing it and I kept wondering the whole movie when it was going to happen. At the premeire at Disneyland - on E! - Keira herself says something to the effect how great it was to be in this movie and get to kiss two hot actors like Orlando Bloom and Johnny DEpp. When she that I was like OMG, what? Jack and Elizabeth are going to kiss -= my secret wish from Pirates 1 is going to come true! And boy did it ever, what a hot kiss - it was well worth the wait.

lady_captinjack
it was a hot kiss! i knew that they were going to kiss, but i didnt know it was going to be a full make out session! it was sooo worth the wait

brokenxxheart14
yes that was a good makeout kiss it was like a 5 min. kiss there

lady_captinjack
but the thing that made it more interesting was the fact that will saw it

brokenxxheart14
yes his face was priceless

lady_captinjack
haha so true....so i wonder whats going to happen with the whole norrington bring the heart to port royal situation

choosewisely
*sigh*

lady_captinjack
had a dream last night, about the 3rd movie! the whole time liz makes out with jack!

lovethemtigers
That sounds like it was a great dream. Sometimes when I cant fall asleep at night I'll make up scenes between Jack and Lizzie that might take place in Pirates 3. YOu know I was wondering the same thing: How does the heart play into Pirates 3 since it's now in the hands of Lord Beckett, thanks to Norrington. That means they will control Davy Jones and thus control the sea????!!!!!! I loved when Jack says "What" when Lizzie says it on the beach. He is so CUTE when he says it in that high pitched voice. But I do believe the way he was looking around when Lizzie's kissing Jack that he is wondering "Where is the Flying Dutchman, where is DAvy Jones" I don't think he was concerned about the kiss. That's what makes Jack so sexy - he's all man, really. He's concerned about himself - he puts himself first and at the same time is very attracted to Elizabeth - put does not let that distract him from his ultimate goals. It's kinda funny cuz when Lizzies says: So everything you told me was a lie" and Jack replies, "Yep, pretty much." Just a few minutes earlier he was telling Norrington and Lizzie about how he Tells the truth quite often and yet people are always shocked when i do.....wonder why. LOL. Jack is so funny, so sexy - good gracious I can't get enough of him.

lovethemtigers
oops made a mistake on my entry - I meant when Lizzie kisses Will on the beach.

lady_captinjack
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
That sounds like it was a great dream. Sometimes when I cant fall asleep at night I'll make up scenes between Jack and Lizzie that might take place in Pirates 3. YOu know I was wondering the same thing: How does the heart play into Pirates 3 since it's now in the hands of Lord Beckett, thanks to Norrington. That means they will control Davy Jones and thus control the sea????!!!!!! I loved when Jack says "What" when Lizzie says it on the beach. He is so CUTE when he says it in that high pitched voice. But I do believe the way he was looking around when Lizzie's kissing Jack that he is wondering "Where is the Flying Dutchman, where is DAvy Jones" I don't think he was concerned about the kiss. That's what makes Jack so sexy - he's all man, really. He's concerned about himself - he puts himself first and at the same time is very attracted to Elizabeth - put does not let that distract him from his ultimate goals. It's kinda funny cuz when Lizzies says: So everything you told me was a lie" and Jack replies, "Yep, pretty much." Just a few minutes earlier he was telling Norrington and Lizzie about how he Tells the truth quite often and yet people are always shocked when i do.....wonder why. LOL. Jack is so funny, so sexy - good gracious I can't get enough of him. well i think he was paying attention to the kiss when liz was kissing him. but yea jack is insanely gorgeous....in the dream tho he didnt look like captin jack....he was soooo much hotter!! bu tliz looked like liz and they were on a ship..but yea it was a great dream

choosewisely
my dream includes the whole movie but with a bit more lizz and a bit less others XD

LovelyOne
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

yes we need more and more threads! lets overrun the site!! laughing out loud

choosewisely
i think it's enough no expression

lady_captinjack
lol

LovelyOne
LOL!

its never enough!

lady_captinjack
so true!

katelovespirate
YAYAY! another great thread... smile
okay you know what i love about jack? everything. but seriously, the fact that he doesnt actually really seem to get jealous. he isn't at ALL concerned with making himself look good in front of Lizzie--- he readily admits that he lied to her, because he is proud of the fact that he is a pirate. he likes who he is, and he knows when it comes down to it, he can pretty much have any woman on his own terms. Now lizzie is different of course, but he's still cocky Jack, he doesnt seem to care all that much that she is engaged or whatever, he isnt manipulative, he just puts it out there that he thinks of lizzie in a romantic, physical way sometimes. and pretty much lets her take it from there. smile

blackpearl44
^^ Excatly - If someone is going to love Jack....they are going to love him on his terms, and he is defiately NOT concerned about impressing people....one of the many qualities that liz likes about Jack smile

LovelyOne
I actually saw Jack sort of desperatley trying to cover up that grunt when she walked off after he suggested sex to her. Its as if he didnt want to be embarased in front of her by showing a lapse in character,

blackpearl44
^^ Good point.....he didn't want to embarass himself....I don't think he ever desperately tries to impress her though....but you have a good point....as always...

lady_captinjack
Originally posted by katelovespirate
YAYAY! another great thread... smile
okay you know what i love about jack? everything. but seriously, the fact that he doesnt actually really seem to get jealous. he isn't at ALL concerned with making himself look good in front of Lizzie--- he readily admits that he lied to her, because he is proud of the fact that he is a pirate. he likes who he is, and he knows when it comes down to it, he can pretty much have any woman on his own terms. Now lizzie is different of course, but he's still cocky Jack, he doesnt seem to care all that much that she is engaged or whatever, he isnt manipulative, he just puts it out there that he thinks of lizzie in a romantic, physical way sometimes. and pretty much lets her take it from there. smile
so true

LovelyOne
LOL it made me laugh how he kinda plays it cool when he's actually charming Liz but when she walks off he's like "euhhh" or "uhhmmh" as if he cant contain himself..so hilarious..that happened both times, when he suggeset sex to her nd when he pulled away from the kiss.

lady_captinjack
lol that was funny

sweet_kat22
I fantasize about 2 things happening.

1) Elizabeth gives up her life and leaves her wedding for Jack
or
2) Jack gives up his life as a pirate and lives with liz,....

But only number 1 is more likely to happen heh.

lady_captinjack
yea number 1 would be more interesting

LovelyOne
Originally posted by sweet_kat22
I fantasize about 2 things happening.

1) Elizabeth gives up her life and leaves her wedding for Jack
or
2) Jack gives up his life as a pirate and lives with liz,....

But only number 1 is more likely to happen heh.

Yeh I doubt number 2 will happen. Afterall she has been changing more into a pirate than jack has into an honest man.

blackpearl44
Number one is much more likely^^ As you said.................not to mention, better.....

lady_captinjack
so much better...you cant have jack sparrow give up being a pirate

blackpearl44
^^ Exactly, that's why it won't happen....

sweet_kat22
Theres a construction guy out my window, I wish he was Jack.... lmao I hope he cant read what Im typing. But their all still hot but not as hot as Jack...

Ok we all have to admit it we all want jack stick out tongue But no one claimed him yet... hes mine lol *goes and fights Liz for him*

lady_captinjack
oh yea i called him like a year ago...sry stick out tongue lol

LovelyOne
I deserve him more..He plays a Brit and I'm a Brit so ha! No american accents in the films I notice laughing out loud

lady_captinjack
hmmmm

sweet_kat22
I deserve him over all of you I been heart broken sad *cries* By my ex fiance. *Looks for Jacks shoulder to cry on*

lady_captinjack
well if u get him then who will liz end up with?

sithsaber408
This movie was ESB, for the pirates series.

Luke Skywalker? Check. (will turner, with a missing dad to boot.)

Princess Leah? Check. (elizabeth, becoming much more independant.)

Han Solo? Check.
(Obviously Captain Jack, who develops more of a relationship with the heroine, goes from rouge to hero, and is even "stuck in carbonite" at the end of the picture, and his friends need to go off and rescue him.)

Vader? Check. (davy Jones)

Emporer? Check. (the official who took over, forgot his name, that wants the compass.)

R2 and 3PO? Check. (the fat pirate, and the one with the wooden eyeball.)


Darker story which develops the characters, deepens the romance, introduces a father thought dead for the Luke character, and ends unresolved?

CHECK. big grin


Mark my words now,: Will Turner and Elizabeth are brother and sister.

katelovespirate
haha still dont think so.

i dont think i deserve jack more than ya'll do, but i have a wicked accent and am quite good at persuasion... hahaha just kiddin woah im outa control.... but deserving him has nothing to do with it. gosh. lol. i'm just piraty by nature so we would probably get along well.

here are my fantasies: smile
Liz tries to hook up with Jack at the beginning of the film, where Jack, being his usual piraty self, takes sudden pity on Will and gives Lizzie a bunch of lies about how he's not one to get married and his only love is the sea, and he's just after what he can get and he hates feeling tied down by anyone. Liz is slightly heartbroken and royally pissed off, and goes off to Will and tells him she wants to marry him. Will wonders if she is telling the truth but still loves her, so they agree to get married. Day of the wedding pops up and Liz is feelin pretty low. However, Jack arrives in the nick of time, apologizes for interrupting, and explains to Liz that he got it wrong, of course he loves her, he was just trying to do the right thing, but realized that was a dumb idea, and promptly came around to collect her. She parts on amiable terms with Will, makes jokes to Jack about not wanting to be tied down, and goes sailing off hapily with him on the Black Pearl...

brokenxxheart14
haha i like that

lovethemtigers
Katelovespirates: I like your fantasy. That sounds pretty good. How hot a scene that would be - Jack rushing in to stop the wedding, proclaiming his love for Liz and asking her to sail away with him on the Black Pearl. We could sense her sadness that it's her wedding day, but she secretly still longs for Jack. He would make some grand entrance I imagine.

The serious Jack at the end of Pirates 2 was the sexiest man I have ever layed eyes on. My heart was doing flip-flops over him. For so long we'd seen a non-chalant, devil-may-care Pirate, concerned only with himself. At the end, due to the love of a woman, Jack has come back to rescue all, risking his own life to do so. From the moment we see him with the compass in the long boat through the end facing the Beastie, we see a new Jack. I love it.

katelovespirate
MEE TOOOOOOOO. smile in a big way.

and to make myself feel good about my theory, here is another theory:

smile Allright, the scene where Jack rescues Elizabeth in the 1st film seems to have some incredible meaning in the 2nd and 3rd films---- "and then they made me their chief" (Jack is chief of the tribe in the 2nd film) and "clearly you've never been to Singapore" (where they are heading for the 3rd film). What else is going on in that scene? Jack and Liz are having intense moments, scantily clad... [email protected] Let's carry on the trend Disney...

lady_captinjack
i love liz and jack moments

blackpearl44
Originally posted by katelovespirate
MEE TOOOOOOOO. smile in a big way.

and to make myself feel good about my theory, here is another theory:

smile Allright, the scene where Jack rescues Elizabeth in the 1st film seems to have some incredible meaning in the 2nd and 3rd films---- "and then they made me their chief" (Jack is chief of the tribe in the 2nd film) and "clearly you've never been to Singapore" (where they are heading for the 3rd film). What else is going on in that scene? Jack and Liz are having intense moments, scantily clad... [email protected] Let's carry on the trend Disney...

Yea.........let's.........

choosewisely
Originally posted by lady_captinjack
well if u get him then who will liz end up with?

Pick me Pcik me crazy

lady_captinjack
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
Katelovespirates: I like your fantasy. That sounds pretty good. How hot a scene that would be - Jack rushing in to stop the wedding, proclaiming his love for Liz and asking her to sail away with him on the Black Pearl. We could sense her sadness that it's her wedding day, but she secretly still longs for Jack. He would make some grand entrance I imagine.

The serious Jack at the end of Pirates 2 was the sexiest man I have ever layed eyes on. My heart was doing flip-flops over him. For so long we'd seen a non-chalant, devil-may-care Pirate, concerned only with himself. At the end, due to the love of a woman, Jack has come back to rescue all, risking his own life to do so. From the moment we see him with the compass in the long boat through the end facing the Beastie, we see a new Jack. I love it. that would be a hot scene! and that is soo true about jack at the end of the movie! so sexy!

LovelyOne
Originally posted by sithsaber408
This movie was ESB, for the pirates series.

Luke Skywalker? Check. (will turner, with a missing dad to boot.)

Princess Leah? Check. (elizabeth, becoming much more independant.)

Han Solo? Check.
(Obviously Captain Jack, who develops more of a relationship with the heroine, goes from rouge to hero, and is even "stuck in carbonite" at the end of the picture, and his friends need to go off and rescue him.)

Vader? Check. (davy Jones)

Emporer? Check. (the official who took over, forgot his name, that wants the compass.)

R2 and 3PO? Check. (the fat pirate, and the one with the wooden eyeball.)


Darker story which develops the characters, deepens the romance, introduces a father thought dead for the Luke character, and ends unresolved?

CHECK. big grin


Mark my words now,: Will Turner and Elizabeth are brother and sister.

Jack is the main character not Will..also Jack's dad is coming back in the next one.. I agree I see both films as very similar but Disney wont be too obvious by copying it to a Tee

lady_captinjack
true

sweet_kat22
Originally posted by katelovespirate

here are my fantasies: smile
Liz tries to hook up with Jack at the beginning of the film, where Jack, being his usual piraty self, takes sudden pity on Will and gives Lizzie a bunch of lies about how he's not one to get married and his only love is the sea, and he's just after what he can get and he hates feeling tied down by anyone. Liz is slightly heartbroken and royally pissed off, and goes off to Will and tells him she wants to marry him. Will wonders if she is telling the truth but still loves her, so they agree to get married. Day of the wedding pops up and Liz is feelin pretty low. However, Jack arrives in the nick of time, apologizes for interrupting, and explains to Liz that he got it wrong, of course he loves her, he was just trying to do the right thing, but realized that was a dumb idea, and promptly came around to collect her. She parts on amiable terms with Will, makes jokes to Jack about not wanting to be tied down, and goes sailing off hapily with him on the Black Pearl...

YES I so want this to happen. I love you forever for coming up with this idea. I must remember this smile eek!


As for the star wars thing ..... MAN that be cool if you were right about Will and Liz. Then that give Jack the reason to hook up with Liz.

Omg now I have to rewrite my Pirates 3 script heh.

blackpearl44
Originally posted by katelovespirate
haha still dont think so.
here are my fantasies: smile
Liz tries to hook up with Jack at the beginning of the film, where Jack, being his usual piraty self, takes sudden pity on Will and gives Lizzie a bunch of lies about how he's not one to get married and his only love is the sea, and he's just after what he can get and he hates feeling tied down by anyone. Liz is slightly heartbroken and royally pissed off, and goes off to Will and tells him she wants to marry him. Will wonders if she is telling the truth but still loves her, so they agree to get married. Day of the wedding pops up and Liz is feelin pretty low. However, Jack arrives in the nick of time, apologizes for interrupting, and explains to Liz that he got it wrong, of course he loves her, he was just trying to do the right thing, but realized that was a dumb idea, and promptly came around to collect her. She parts on amiable terms with Will, makes jokes to Jack about not wanting to be tied down, and goes sailing off hapily with him on the Black Pearl...

absolutely............BRILLIANT lol.......I think something similar to this will happen......

blackpearl44
Originally posted by sweet_kat22
YES
Omg now I have to rewrite my Pirates 3 script heh.

Ha, no kidding......hehe......

sweet_kat22
I should really make a Fan film with my Jack costume hah I'll bring a camera to the convention maybe I can get some people to help out smile

katelovespirate
YAYAY!!! smile piraty fantasies. i love that script, BTW! smile

sweet_kat22
My script? thanks if you mean mine, Im gonna rewrite it using all these theories and post it again in a new thread. smile

katelovespirate
cannot wait. it'll be brilliant. then if the real movie doesnt turn out right (but it will, i hope) we can just re-film using your script. smile

sweet_kat22
PS: Does anyone know what Jacks father *played by Keith Richards* Name is going to be ? Of corse his last name is going to be Sparrow but what is his first name?

Quincy Archer
I personally guarantee that Jack and Elizabeth will NOT end up together. There is no "evidence" besides playful banter in Dead Man's Chest that points to that. Elizabeth just tricked Jack. The pairing is Will and Elizabeth. It's just all wishful thinking and fangirl drooling that Jack and Elizabeth will get together.

It's a terrible idea.

blackpearl44
^^ Ok, you already said that......in another thread.....you are one of the only ones who wants that to happen BTW......There is no evidence in the second movie that Will/Liz will be together....


Originally posted by sweet_kat22
PS: Does anyone know what Jacks father *played by Keith Richards* Name is going to be ? Of corse his last name is going to be Sparrow but what is his first name?

Yes, his name is going to be Teague Sparrow......I posted a casting article in the "Jack's father-Keith Richards" thread smile

lovethemtigers
LOL _ just think how great Pirates 3 would be if all of us could get together and write the script for them....then we're sure to have a happy ending - someone mentions that Disney always has happy endings - well, then, I think based on the signs given us in Pirates 2 that they too want a happy ending that ends with Jack and Liz.

Here's my fantasy ending - Like the one earlier - Jack tells her they could never be together because she wants marriage and children and that's something he can't give her.,..however, when they are around each other he can't seem to keep his hands off her. He tells her to marry Will - that she'll forget about him in time....While Will is captured by Norrington, Norrington and Lord Beckett tell Will all about how Elizabeth really wants Jack. So.....Will and Elizabeth are set to marry...Will, however the good-hearted person he is, realises Liz will never be happy with him, and why would he want to be married to someone who secretly longs for someone else. So he breaks the engagement. Meanwhile, Jack has gone back to Tortuga but misses Liz so much - he passes out every night on Rum......Once the marriage is called off, The Governor's governership is over - and Liz is miserable, so they decide to return to England - and away from all her memories of Jack. ATsome point right here, Disney could play some kind of love song and they could recapture all of Liz and Jack's moments from all 3 pirate movies (just like the videos' on youtube.com). While on the ship just outside of Port Royal - the English merchant ship is over-run by Pirates, when Liz sees its the Black Pearl she can hardly believe it - Jack boards the ship. He tells Elizabeth that he can't live without her, that he loves her and if she's willing to accept his way of life they can be together. Governor Swann is shocked and almost passes out as Lizzie throws herself into Handsome Jack's arms and lays a nice, slow sexy kiss on him and says YES> And they sail away on the Black Pearl....leaving to our wild immagination's... Maybe the ending line might be "Lizzie,darling, you still look better in a dress or nothing." and she responds, "Jack, do you still happen to have NO dress in your cabin?" And he says -Yes, love, as a matter of fact I do." He winks at Gibbs and tells him, man the ship for me mate. They go down to his cabin and the credits role while the phenominal Pirates theme plays.....

lovethemtigers
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
I personally guarantee that Jack and Elizabeth will NOT end up together. There is no "evidence" besides playful banter in Dead Man's Chest that points to that. Elizabeth just tricked Jack. The pairing is Will and Elizabeth. It's just all wishful thinking and fangirl drooling that Jack and Elizabeth will get together.

It's a terrible idea.

This argument holds no merit. Obviously you didn't watch the same movie. You must still be watching Pirates 1.

blackpearl44
Yea LOL^^ even in POTC 1 there are hints of Jack and Liz...when Jack saves Liz's life, and that's how they first meet........


Originally posted by lovethemtigers
LOL _ just think how great Pirates 3 would be if all of us could get together and write the script for them....then we're sure to have a happy ending - someone mentions that Disney always has happy endings - well, then, I think based on the signs given us in Pirates 2 that they too want a happy ending that ends with Jack and Liz.

Here's my fantasy ending - Like the one earlier - Jack tells her they could never be together because she wants marriage and children and that's something he can't give her.,..however, when they are around each other he can't seem to keep his hands off her. He tells her to marry Will - that she'll forget about him in time....While Will is captured by Norrington, Norrington and Lord Beckett tell Will all about how Elizabeth really wants Jack. So.....Will and Elizabeth are set to marry...Will, however the good-hearted person he is, realises Liz will never be happy with him, and why would he want to be married to someone who secretly longs for someone else. So he breaks the engagement. Meanwhile, Jack has gone back to Tortuga but misses Liz so much - he passes out every night on Rum......Once the marriage is called off, The Governor's governership is over - and Liz is miserable, so they decide to return to England - and away from all her memories of Jack. ATsome point right here, Disney could play some kind of love song and they could recapture all of Liz and Jack's moments from all 3 pirate movies (just like the videos' on youtube.com). While on the ship just outside of Port Royal - the English merchant ship is over-run by Pirates, when Liz sees its the Black Pearl she can hardly believe it - Jack boards the ship. He tells Elizabeth that he can't live without her, that he loves her and if she's willing to accept his way of life they can be together. Governor Swann is shocked and almost passes out as Lizzie throws herself into Handsome Jack's arms and lays a nice, slow sexy kiss on him and says YES> And they sail away on the Black Pearl....leaving to our wild immagination's... Maybe the ending line might be "Lizzie,darling, you still look better in a dress or nothing." and she responds, "Jack, do you still happen to have NO dress in your cabin?" And he says -Yes, love, as a matter of fact I do." He winks at Gibbs and tells him, man the ship for me mate. They go down to his cabin and the credits role while the phenominal Pirates theme plays.....


That is good..........and the producer (Jerry Brukhiemer) said in that interview that they have a good idea for POTC 4, and they are going to start to develope it soon. smile ........

Quincy Archer
Originally posted by blackpearl44
^^ Ok, you already said that......in another thread.....you are one of the only ones who wants that to happen BTW......There is no evidence in the second movie that Will/Liz will be together....

Yeah I know I posted it. And I even said that I posted it twice. I didn't realize there was so many threads on the topic. No evidence that supported that Will and Elizabeth will be together?

Wow. That is....not right at all.

Let's start with the basics shall we? The VERY beginning? Shall do.

1. Will Turner was the son of Pirate Bootstrap Bill Turner. He was shipwrecked and saved by the navy and brought aboard Elizabeth's ship. This is where they first meet, and Elizabeth immediately begins to feel some sort of connection with Will.

2. Will makes a new life for himself, believing he has lost the one thing that belonged to his father that was important to both of them. He becomes the apprentice for a blacksmith, and becomes an excellent swordsman by practicing 3 hours a day. All the while harboring a crush for the girl who had saved him. Elizabeth frequently feels feelings of affection for Will as well, enough so that her hand-maidens realize it and tease her.

3. After the whole kidnapping of Elizabeth, she gives Barbossa's crew a fake name - Turner. This is because she likes Will. Will meanwhile teams up with a "Pirate" (cough the type of people he hates and distrusts) and attempts to do all in his power to save the woman he loves. To quote him "I would die for her." Eventually jack and Elizabeth wind up on an island, where Jack attempts to seduce her. Elizabeth says her distaste for Jack oftentimes in the movie.

4. They save the day, 3 hours later and the movie ends with Elizabeth turning down the rich handsome norrington, and admits her love for will. The movie ends happily in their embrace.

5. Pirates 2 starts with Elizabeth awaiting her fiance' for her wedding. Not to sound a bit sarcastic but...people who are in LOVE usually get married....

6. Determined to save her true love, Elizabeth embarks on a journey of her own. This is where she teams with Sparrow and the others. Will however is currently aboard the flying dutchman and stuff. Flirting with Jack and whatnot, all attempting to get him to become a good-guy.

7. And this is the most important part of the story - In the end, Elizabeth kisses Jack, and chains him to the mast. Thus leaving him to die. If thats not love, what is? roll eyes (sarcastic)

You say that there was no evidence. Bah. Watch both movies again. Tell me who the couple is. There was no development with their (fully developed already) relationship, because they were off doing other things. Why were they doing those things? Fighting sea monsters and battling pirates? To save each other from death. Why? Because they love each other. Why did Jack do his stuff? Why did your hero lie to his friends and theive from Tia Dalma and tell Will to settle his debt with davy jones?

To save his own ass.

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
This argument holds no merit. Obviously you didn't watch the same movie. You must still be watching Pirates 1.

No need to get testy. Upset because someone disagrees? Believe me, I watched Pirates 2. And a "Happy-Ending" would not be Jack Sparrow stealing poor Will Turner's fiance from him and having Liz and Jack have a big affair. Meanwhile Will is crying after going through all of that hardship from both movies to save the girl he doesn't even get. Pffft. Sounds like Disney

blackpearl44
^^ Um.......actually, Jack and Liz being together would be a good plot for the love story in Pirates 3......something like, Will loves Liz so much, he wants her to be happy, and if her being with Jack makes her happy, than he will want her to do that.....and Will is so concentrated on saving his father, that he has spent NO time with Liz...they are developing into 2 TOTALLY different people.....they don't fit together anymore.........Jack and Liz have MUCH better chemistry....the VERY beginning is Jack saves Liz's life......that's how they first meet....Upset because someone disagrees?.......and Will and Liz's wedding day looked more like a funeral than a wedding.....and remember Liz's comment "it's bad luck for the groom to see the bride before the wedding" REMEMBER THAT?....and they develope SO much during the movie, Liz wants the free pirate lifestyle that Jack has.....

and Davy Jones' love story was doomed for some reason, because he did something, and the PRODUCER said that Will/Liz's love story mirrors Davy Jones'......

Quincy Archer
*sigh.

So you do think that the wife stealer ending would be better than the true love ending?

Okay lets look at it with your evidence. You say that "Will has spent NO time with Liz because he is concentrated on saving his father." I believe I said this already but....Will goes on this whirlwind of an overproduced film all to save his lovely fiance' elizabeth. To do so, he is TRICKED by Jack Sparrow (for whatever reason everyone loves him) into going to the flying dutchman and finding the key and stuff. The only REASONS Will ended up on the Dutchman and finding his father was

a.) Jack deceived him
b.) He was out attempting to find any way possible to save his love.

You say Will is too concentrated. I disagree, he gets that drive to save his father barely half-way through the film. You're acting as though the whole time Will ignores everything else. He saves everyone on the pearl's life through his command (cough meanwhile Jack is off attempting to escape.) And why does everyone keep saying af it is Fact that Elizabeth wants that lifestyle. She never once said that. Jack said that by twisting her words against her. But no, "obviously" she wants Jack. And yes I remember Jack saves Liz's life. Then ten seconds later, chokes her with his chains. Ah what a charmer. no expression

Yes I remember that it was bad-luck. But bad-luck pertaining to their wedding? Or perhaps...THE REST OF THE WHOLE MOVIE WHILE THEY ARE BEING CHASED BY THE KRAKKEN AND THE FLYING DUTCHMAN AND RUNNING FROM CANNIBALISTIC ISLANDERS???

No it must be bad luck meaning Liz to cheat on Will with Jack. Obviously.

I see how your staying away from the fact that Liz...LEFT JACK TO DIE.

blackpearl44
^^How come she smilied every time Jack was flirting with her then? and she even took command in the flirting department a few times also....and it's not a "wife stealer" because nobody is married yet....

brokenxxheart14
but wen she chained him there was a moment between them she almost went in to kiss him again once he was already chained. she deff. has a thing for jack. then jack said to her pirate. that was a compliment cus she wants to BE a pirate.

brokenxxheart14
and the compass it ALWAYS pointed to jack wen held it cus she wants to be a pirate // she likes jack so yea....

blackpearl44
Yea^^, the compass points to what your heart desires most......when Liz held it, it pointed to Jack EVERY TIME...

blackpearl44
Originally posted by sweet_kat22
My script? thanks if you mean mine, Im gonna rewrite it using all these theories and post it again in a new thread. smile

Awsome, it'll be great......can't wait!....

lovethemtigers
No need to get testy. Upset because someone disagrees? Believe me, I watched Pirates 2. And a "Happy-Ending" would not be Jack Sparrow stealing poor Will Turner's fiance from him and having Liz and Jack have a big affair. Meanwhile Will is crying after going through all of that hardship from both movies to save the girl he doesn't even get. Pffft. Sounds like Disney

Oh yeah, if Disney is so concerned about moral values, then why do they have all that flirting going on between Jack and Elizabeth. To me it would have made more since to just have good old fashion action like they did in Pirates 1, show her missing Will. Why doesn't she tell Jack on the stairs "I'm upset. I miss Will, we should be married." No, instead she says (after just recently having a sexual conversation with Jack) to Jack, "I just thought I'd be married by now. I'm so ready to be married." If she is so in love with Will and missing him so much, then why is she spending all her time flirting with Jack, encouraging him to kiss her. If she was disgusted with Jack, she wouldn't be trying to get him to kiss her. I wouldn't want to get someone to kiss me that I thought was disgusting. Yes, she does leave Jack to die, but it is an impulse moment, one she is definetly regretting...remember Jack tells her, "You will come over to my side, one day....you will act on a selfish impulse because you won't be able to resist." That's why he calls her "Pirate" at the end of the kiss.

lady_captinjack
so true

katelovespirate
OMGGGGG LOVETHEMTIGERS YOU ARE AMAZING.
I LOVED your fanasy!!!! YAYAYAY!!!! "do you still happen to have no dress in your cabin?!?""" BRILLIANT

MAN i hope we get some more liz jack moments, whatever happens at the enhd.

lady_captinjack
thats what i want. i want some liz and jack moments in the next movie. even if it doesnt end the way i want erm

sweet_kat22
Me too me too smile

brokenxxheart14
sameeee yes

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
Yeah I know I posted it. And I even said that I posted it twice. I didn't realize there was so many threads on the topic. No evidence that supported that Will and Elizabeth will be together?

Wow. That is....not right at all.

Let's start with the basics shall we? The VERY beginning? Shall do.

1. Will Turner was the son of Pirate Bootstrap Bill Turner. He was shipwrecked and saved by the navy and brought aboard Elizabeth's ship. This is where they first meet, and Elizabeth immediately begins to feel some sort of connection with Will.

2. Will makes a new life for himself, believing he has lost the one thing that belonged to his father that was important to both of them. He becomes the apprentice for a blacksmith, and becomes an excellent swordsman by practicing 3 hours a day. All the while harboring a crush for the girl who had saved him. Elizabeth frequently feels feelings of affection for Will as well, enough so that her hand-maidens realize it and tease her.



3. After the whole kidnapping of Elizabeth, she gives Barbossa's crew a fake name - Turner. This is because she likes Will. Will meanwhile teams up with a "Pirate" (cough the type of people he hates and distrusts) and attempts to do all in his power to save the woman he loves. To quote him "I would die for her." Eventually jack and Elizabeth wind up on an island, where Jack attempts to seduce her. Elizabeth says her distaste for Jack oftentimes in the movie.

4. They save the day, 3 hours later and the movie ends with Elizabeth turning down the rich handsome norrington, and admits her love for will. The movie ends happily in their embrace.

5. Pirates 2 starts with Elizabeth awaiting her fiance' for her wedding. Not to sound a bit sarcastic but...people who are in LOVE usually get married....

6. Determined to save her true love, Elizabeth embarks on a journey of her own. This is where she teams with Sparrow and the others. Will however is currently aboard the flying dutchman and stuff. Flirting with Jack and whatnot, all attempting to get him to become a good-guy.

7. And this is the most important part of the story - In the end, Elizabeth kisses Jack, and chains him to the mast. Thus leaving him to die. If thats not love, what is? roll eyes (sarcastic)

You say that there was no evidence. Bah. Watch both movies again. Tell me who the couple is. There was no development with their (fully developed already) relationship, because they were off doing other things. Why were they doing those things? Fighting sea monsters and battling pirates? To save each other from death. Why? Because they love each other. Why did Jack do his stuff? Why did your hero lie to his friends and theive from Tia Dalma and tell Will to settle his debt with davy jones?

To save his own ass.



No need to get testy. Upset because someone disagrees? Believe me, I watched Pirates 2. And a "Happy-Ending" would not be Jack Sparrow stealing poor Will Turner's fiance from him and having Liz and Jack have a big affair. Meanwhile Will is crying after going through all of that hardship from both movies to save the girl he doesn't even get. Pffft. Sounds like Disney

A happy ending would mean Jack sparrow..Liz is changing into someone who doesnt want marriage..she wants the pirate life..the whole movie developed her AWAY from Will so that this could happen..Jack is changinf..he came back for her most of all..that whole scene where she clings to his leg symbolizes that. She wants to be free and Will resembles restriction.

Also the Director himself has said that Davy Jone's tragic love story is mirrors Will and Liz's love story in the next one...so thats pretty doomed wouldn't you say?

Wills priorities are changing..its more about his father now. He completley forgot about Liz..he set out to save her then got completley side tracked..when he found her on the island it was by accident..he wasnt there looking for her..he kissed her then basically ignored her again. He expected her to just sit pretty.

there are more than an excess of hints suggesting Jack/Liz..but by this point in the movie the characters are in denial. So they are made to look like "ifs" and "buts"

there are 3 characters in the story (all people who can see the bigger picture) who KNOW that Jack wants Liz and vise versa.

Thats Norrington, Tia and Beckett..its no coincidence that these 3 can see it..these are the charcters in the story who's job/personality is to over see everything. Tia - Mind reader, Beckett - EIT..he looks over the world, Norrington - came from a similar position and ends up working for the EIT in the end. ALL of these 3 knew what both characters wanted and that they were in denial about it.

Quincy Archer
Originally posted by brokenxxheart14
but wen she chained him there was a moment between them she almost went in to kiss him again once he was already chained. she deff. has a thing for jack. then jack said to her pirate. that was a compliment cus she wants to BE a pirate.

So they almost kissed again....yeah? They won't end up together. If so, that would be....eck. How do you know she wants to BE a pirate? She never said that. Everyone keeps treating that as a fact when you are all just guessing that she wants to be a pirate.

Originally posted by blackpearl44
^^How come she smilied every time Jack was flirting with her then? and she even took command in the flirting department a few times also....and it's not a "wife stealer" because nobody is married yet....

She didn't smile every time they flirted. And even if she smiled occasionally, what girl doesn't smile when being the object of flirtation? Fine then "Fiance" stealer.


The main part of this post: I should probably just stop posting this. Everyone just seems to be ignoring the evidence I provide and just saying their same arguements over and over again that I have already put down. Damn the people of kmc with no sense of debate.

LovelyOne
She wants to be one because in an interview Keira Knightly herself said THATS what her character wants in the movie...so stuff it mate laughing out loud^^

She didn't just turn from posh little girl into swash buckling pirate for no reason...

From the very first movie..even as a little girl she says she finds pirates really interesting.

Also The director said that Liz/Will's relationship is mirroring Davy Jones's in the next movie. Davy cut his heart out because his woman became uncontrollable like the sea and left the marriage..LIZ is doing the exact same thing. isn't she? there are hints beyond hints that a married life with Will is not what she wants. In both the mise en scene and dialogue..

Quincy Archer
....did she write the character Elizabeth? erm

brokenxxheart14
hahaha andd they dont have to say it u can tell the way shes changing

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
....did she write the character Elizabeth? erm

No but she plays the character the direcotrs WRITE FOR HER roll eyes (sarcastic) So I think she knows what her character is about UNLESS SHE CANT READ A SCRIPT AND IS DEAF TO WHAT THE DIRECTORS TELL HER TO DO WHILST SHOOTING. Remember that they are already mid way through shooting the second movie..so she knows what her character is about more than we do. roll eyes (sarcastic) roll eyes (sarcastic)

LovelyOne
also the Hat theory of mine pretty much sums up what Jack feels about the whole situation with Liz...

Quincy Archer
Yeah I suppose your right about that. But one thing....show me the interview.

Why is that so funny?

What hat theory?

sweet_kat22
Calm down children, everyone has their own opinions and are welcome to share them.

I dont mind a debate, of corse I keep way back in my head that Jack and Liz MAY NOT happen because Disney is Disney lets face it as it was brought up before. I am not expecting my Happy little fairy tale of Jack and Liz getting together to come true, I DO expect some more relationship development between Jack and Liz to happen but I dont really expect them to ditch Will so suddenly and leaving him heart broken unless they are planning on having him cutt out his heart like most people are saying.

I know I am a fan of Liz and Jack but I think what disney is aiming for is maybe they rescue Jack from purgetory , while this is going on Will realizes that the two have some sort of connection because Liz is becoming more 'Pirate'. So it could end in many ways, like Liz and Will could end up together in the end if Jack decides he is too selfish to give up his life as a pirate (If thats what disney plans to write). What Liz really wants is to discover her pirate side of herself and to be FREE of her on land life as the governors daughter. Its like those old disney tales, Aladdin or Cinderellla where they are trapped and long to be free so they live the life of someone else they long to be like. But In Liz's case she just wants a chance to be free, maybe just maybe, disney will end it with the 3 of them together venturing out and Liz and Will are married like they wanted, Jack has his ship like he wanted, and Liz has her freedom like she wanted. And everyone is happy stick out tongue

But who knows theres a tiny bit of hope for those Jack/Liz fans but it might not end exactly how they wanted. Lets face the fact that MOST of the audience was pretty much pissed off when she chained Jack to the ship and left him there. Who knows how the next one will end.,....

So lets stop arguing about it stick out tongue

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
Yeah I suppose your right about that. But one thing....show me the interview.

Why is that so funny?

What hat theory?

LOL sorry...I dont want to intimidate you or anything...when i do sarcastic eyerolls and stuff its just me being silly.

Ok the interview from the UK premiere special,

She didnt say "she wants to be a pirate" but its basically what she means in the interview..she says her character has a fettish/obssesion for pirates and the gruby guy with dreadlocks is who she prefers (Jack)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV4kGu74nzk

Its towards the end

And i'll find my hat theory and post it in a second

Also Lovethemtigers I think the majority of the audience failed to pick up on the fact Jack was loving the whole situation and so wwas she. big grin Its a movie that you have to watch more than once to realise whats really going on smile which i think was Disneys goal. The characters are all in a state of confusion but there are messages hinting towards what they all really want in the movie. So its like the audience are confused but if they look again they see the undertone of hints the second or third time they watch it.

Quincy Archer
My goal was never to argue. Then again, I'm anti-jack/liz

Wait wait, so she doesn't say she wants to be a pirate? A-hah!

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
My goal was never to argue. Then again, I'm anti-jack/liz

Wait wait, so she doesn't say she wants to be a pirate? A-hah!

yes but with obssesion the person usually craves what they are obssesed with..they want to have it and they want to BE it in some circumstances..for example female fans of Keira want to be her. Male fans of some rock star usually want to be their idol..because they are so obssesed with him *cough* elvis *cough* They want the lifestyle of the person they adore. Funnily enough Liz starts to dress like Jack in this movie.

brokenxxheart14
she doesnt have to say it u can tell how she acts and stuff.....and yea i agree u deff. have to see the movie more then once like the more u see it the more you can read inbetween the lines and the unspken stuff but you know its there and its greattt =]]

Quincy Archer
Originally posted by LovelyOne
yes but with obssesion the person usually craves what they are obssesed with..they want to have it and they want to BE it in some circumstances..for example female fans of Keira want to be her. Male fans of some rock star usually want to be their idol..because they are so obssesed with him *cough* elvis *cough* They want the lifestyle of the person they adore. Funnily enough Liz starts to dress like Jack in this movie.

...




She wears the pirate clothes so she can board that ship in the beginning of the movie. Then she has no dress, thus stays in the clothes.

brokenxxheart14
why do you like will so much? hes soo boring and stuff......

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
...




She wears the pirate clothes so she can board that ship in the beginning of the movie. Then she has no dress, thus stays in the clothes.

Yes but she also picks up on little Jack traits the hat (which symbolizes more than meets the eye) and she even raps something around her right hand like Jack does.

----------------------------------

My hat theory lol.

The loss of his hat is significant (very important part of him)..and the fact Liz keeps wearing a similar one to him from the moment he first sees her is also significant..her character didn't need a hat at all so it could symbolise something else. the hat stands out when she wears it..its meant to catch the audiences eye. In my opinion its no coincidence that Jack's character is missing his hat throughout the movie and Liz's charcter is basically wearing it. Its like a puzzle piece thats meant to fit together.

So basically to start with he's loses his beloved hat and it makes him feel incomplete. He wants it back to make him feel complete

The part in Tortuga where he didn't feel right trying on all the hats has a double meaning. Its also the point in the movie where his character is in a great state of confusion over what the compass is telling him he wants..he thinks its saying lots of different things (when its actually pointing to liz) He leaves with no hat..he didn't find the right one. He feels incomplete still.

Then hello hello... Liz turning up looking like him but wearing a hat similar to his missing one symbolises that SHE is the missing part of him.

notice he stops thinking about the hat after he meets her. And also the compass problem is solved (or so he thinks)

At the end after he gets what he wants from Liz strangley enough his hat comes back symbolises that he's finally found the missing part of himeslf "coincidently" when LIZ just came down to his level by becomeing a full fledged pirate.


muahahahah

hidden meanings everywhere.

This film is massivly based around little "coincidences" that have a much deeper meaning.

brokenxxheart14
ur hat theory is soooooooo righttt happy

Quincy Archer
Originally posted by brokenxxheart14
why do you like will so much? hes soo boring and stuff......

um...what? Did I say I like Will? confused

But in his defense...let's put these things together. Why would someone possibly like "Will Turner?" Why would someone choose Will turner over "Captain" Jack sparrow?

Will Turner is much more active in Pirates 2 then Jack was. Whilst Jack was running away from monsters and pirates, Will was off fighting. Will is a romantic - fighting for the woman he loves. Jack is in it all to save his own ass. We've been over this.

Will Turner aims to save Elizabeth from death. This is where Jack Sparrow tricks Will into the hunt for the chest. What does "good guy Jack" say to will if Davy Jones catches him?

And I quote:

"Tell Him that Jack Sparrow sent you to settle his debt."

Translation: "Tell him to kill you instead of killing me."

Will Turner is the hero, whereas Jack is the drunk bumbling idiot. In the climax of the movie, Will Turner and Elizabeth are left on the Black Pearl with Jack's crew. They attempt to save everyone's lives and fight the Krakken. Will courageously leads them all to injuring the foul beast.

Jack meanwhile....is running away.

Will: thumb up

Jack thumb down

sweet_kat22
Ah hah the Hat theory must love the hat theory. You must have studied films as well right? I studied this through Film Noir and we pointed out things like this too that make up who characters are and how the story develops.

Quincy Archer, I am sorry to say but everyone is going to EAT you because you said that lol.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by sweet_kat22
Ah hah the Hat theory must love the hat theory. You must have studied films as well right? I studied this through Film Noir and we pointed out things like this too that make up who characters are and how the story develops.

Yeh I did learn film studies for 3 years in college and passed big grin..I learned never to overlook things that seem strange/significant. they ALWAYS mean something. Its just sussing out exactly what they mean thats the hard part.

Quincy Archer
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Yes but she also picks up on little Jack traits the hat (which symbolizes more than meets the eye) and she even raps something around her right hand like Jack does.

She wore that hat to hide her girly hair. Because she wanted to look like a boy. She continued to wear the hat, probably because...well it's what a hat is for - sunlight.

----------------------------------

Originally posted by LovelyOne
My hat theory lol.

The loss of his hat is significant (very important part of him)..and the fact Liz keeps wearing a similar one to him from the moment he first sees her is also significant..her character didn't need a hat at all so it could symbolise something else. the hat stands out when she wears it..its meant to catch the audiences eye. In my opinion its no coincidence that Jack's character is missing his hat throughout the movie and Liz's charcter is basically wearing it. Its like a puzzle piece thats meant to fit together.

So basically to start with he's loses his beloved hat and it makes him feel incomplete. He wants it back to make him feel complete

The part in Tortuga where he didn't feel right trying on all the hats has a double meaning. Its also the point in the movie where his character is in a great state of confusion over what the compass is telling him he wants..he thinks its saying lots of different things (when its actually pointing to liz) He leaves with no hat..he didn't find the right one. He feels incomplete still.

Then hello hello... Liz turning up looking like him but wearing a hat similar to his missing one symbolises that SHE is the missing part of him.

notice he stops thinking about the hat after he meets her. And also the compass problem is solved (or so he thinks)

At the end after he gets what he wants from Liz strangley enough his hat comes back symbolises that he's finally found the missing part of himeslf "coincidently" when LIZ just came down to his level by becomeing a full fledged pirate.


muahahahah

hidden meanings everywhere.

This film is massivly based around little "coincidences" that have a much deeper meaning.

wow. I think you are reading WAYYY too much into it.

Again her character wore the hat to hide the fact that she was a woman. Characters just like their hats (Indiana Jones, Puss in Boots) it isn't anything special. I'm sure Jack just didn't like the hats, not like he was "searching for the other half of his soul."

And I'm pretty sure once Liz showed up the reason he stopped worrying over his hat was because there were no more hats, since he left the saloon.

Quincy Archer
Originally posted by sweet_kat22
Quincy Archer, I am sorry to say but everyone is going to EAT you because you said that lol.

Because I said what? confused

sweet_kat22
Quincy Archer we are film studies students, we know what we are talking about. I dont mind a debate but this is getting rediculous. If I can find my old notes from Film Noir I would be able to explain why Lovely One has all these theorys using objects.

In fact I remember some things.

The Gun in Film Noir represents the masculinity of a detective. Take away his gun take away his masculinity. My teacher said exactly that.

Jack's hat= his full status of a pirate, without it he is incomplete. Take away the hat you take away a part of him maybe not masculinity but something else. When finds it he realizes what he is missing in his life (Meaning when he sees Liz wearing the hat).

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
um...what? Did I say I like Will? confused

But in his defense...let's put these things together. Why would someone possibly like "Will Turner?" Why would someone choose Will turner over "Captain" Jack sparrow?

Will Turner is much more active in Pirates 2 then Jack was. Whilst Jack was running away from monsters and pirates, Will was off fighting. Will is a romantic - fighting for the woman he loves. Jack is in it all to save his own ass. We've been over this.

Will Turner aims to save Elizabeth from death. This is where Jack Sparrow tricks Will into the hunt for the chest. What does "good guy Jack" say to will if Davy Jones catches him?

And I quote:

"Tell Him that Jack Sparrow sent you to settle his debt."

Translation: "Tell him to kill you instead of killing me."

Will Turner is the hero, whereas Jack is the drunk bumbling idiot. In the climax of the movie, Will Turner and Elizabeth are left on the Black Pearl with Jack's crew. They attempt to save everyone's lives and fight the Krakken. Will courageously leads them all to injuring the foul beast.

Jack meanwhile....is running away.

Will: thumb up

Jack thumb down

Ok Liz loving the pirate life..means she is going to love the man who resembles the pirate life best to her: Jack. Its only going to fall naturally.

aha..yes Will was more active...but sadly it was not over Liz. It was ALL about his dadda..he completley forgot about his "caged bird of a fiance" back home. And Yes its no coincidence that Liz's last name is Swann and she resembled a beatiful swan trapped in a cage (prison) whilst with Will ..longing to burst free. Jack also has the last name of a bird "birds of a feather..fly together" "Turner can burner" for all I care.

Will hangs upsideown somewhere when Liz really needs him..not once in the movie did Will come to her aid..he forgot about her and when ever she needed him he was sidetracked worrying about other things. So this gave her the chance to fight her own battles and she is pretty good at it too. Jack comes to her aid when she REALLY needs it during the movie and she clings to the leg of her hero as he does so.

Yes Jack escaped..but the honest streak ran through. I believe that he came back to save Elizabeth more than anyhone in that scene..that whole moment where he comes back was ALL about those two..

blackpearl44
^^ Exactly.....

lovethemtigers
Originally posted by brokenxxheart14
why do you like will so much? hes soo boring and stuff......

Yeah, why do you like Will so much? I guess like all men you just don't get what women see in a man like Jack Sparrow, therefore, you can't understand Elizabeth's attraction to him. Yes, she has loved Will all her life. But that's why she's denying her true feelings, which the compass reveals (it points to Jack). She believes that she loves Will, it's expected of her - but Jack represents everything she longs for : freedom, her craving to act on selfish impulse, she has had this obsession with Pirates before she met Will - remember she is singing the Pirate song as a young girl before they see Will. Her father says he is concerned because she finds Pirates fascinating.....that's why I was so convinced that she would somehow end up with Jack even in the first movie, so was very disappointed when that didn't happen....And remember the dreamy look she get on her face in the first movie when her handmaiden says,"That must have been terribly frighting for you, being threatened by that Pirate and all that." And Elizabeth has this little impish smile on her face -thinking about Jack - yes, frightening. Even then she has a crush on Jack. But at this point she still believes she loves Will because that's what she's thought her entire life....

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
She wore that hat to hide her girly hair. Because she wanted to look like a boy. She continued to wear the hat, probably because...well it's what a hat is for - sunlight.

----------------------------------



wow. I think you are reading WAYYY too much into it.

Again her character wore the hat to hide the fact that she was a woman. Characters just like their hats (Indiana Jones, Puss in Boots) it isn't anything special. I'm sure Jack just didn't like the hats, not like he was "searching for the other half of his soul."

And I'm pretty sure once Liz showed up the reason he stopped worrying over his hat was because there were no more hats, since he left the saloon.

AHA!! the hat actually changed! Firstly it was a straw hat when she was trying to hide..then all of a sudden with no explanation she is wearing a black hat that looks exactly like the missing one of Jacks as soon as she meets him..

no no no the point was that the trying on of many hats resembled the state of confusion he was in. Liz turns up and the confusion dissapears for him. and she is also wearing the hat.

and yeh..We are film studies students..we are taught that every good film has hidden meanings in the mise en scene..Just because you cant spot it doesn't mean it's not there. EVERYTHING in a movie has to have significance. We are trained to spot what they are..thats why we study films. We learn that everything that seems slightly significant usually DOES mean something to whats really going on with the plot. The hat is a perfect example.

sweet_kat22
Yeah, tones of students study film to be able to write their own scripts and even produce films. I go to a school where film is VERY popular and these students know how to hide hidden meanings within their scripts so dont turn these theories away just because you think we are getting WAYY too into it. We studied the deeper meanings to be able to write our own films and maybe become dependent directors.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by sweet_kat22
Quincy Archer we are film studies students, we know what we are talking about. I dont mind a debate but this is getting rediculous. If I can find my old notes from Film Noir I would be able to explain why Lovely One has all these theorys using objects.

In fact I remember some things.

The Gun in Film Noir represents the masculinity of a detective. Take away his gun take away his masculinity. My teacher said exactly that.

Jack's hat= his full status of a pirate, without it he is incomplete. Take away the hat you take away a part of him maybe not masculinity but something else. When finds it he realizes what he is missing in his life (Meaning when he sees Liz wearing the hat).

aha!! thank you smile *raises hat to you* laughing out loud

and also i agree with your above post^^

sweet_kat22
Thanks, I took time on it lol. I'm at work and I'm bored what else do I have to do lol. Shh Im not supposed to be online but meh.

lovethemtigers
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
She wore that hat to hide her girly hair. Because she wanted to look like a boy. She continued to wear the hat, probably because...well it's what a hat is for - sunlight.

----------------------------------



wow. I think you are reading WAYYY too much into it.

Again her character wore the hat to hide the fact that she was a woman. Characters just like their hats (Indiana Jones, Puss in Boots) it isn't anything special. I'm sure Jack just didn't like the hats, not like he was "searching for the other half of his soul."

And I'm pretty sure once Liz showed up the reason he stopped worrying over his hat was because there were no more hats, since he left the saloon.
\
If this is true, then why did she continue to wear the hat on the black pearl and on the island - everybody on the Black Pearl and the Island knew whe was a girl - espeically with her pretty blond tresses hanging down...

Quincy Archer
Originally posted by sweet_kat22
Quincy Archer we are film studies students, we know what we are talking about. I dont mind a debate but this is getting rediculous.

What are you talking about? This debating is going fine? What about it is "ridiculous?" Stop using the same evidence.


Originally posted by LovelyOne
Ok Liz loving the pirate life..means she is going to love the man who resembles the pirate life best to her: Jack. Its only going to fall naturally.

When does she love the pirate life? I wasn't going to say this before because I thought you're arguement was well put together, but Keira Knightley is joking around with the interviewer in that clip. They were talking about fetishes and stuff.


Originally posted by LovelyOne
aha..yes Will was more active...but sadly it was not over Liz. It was ALL about his dadda..he completley forgot about his "caged bird of a fiance" back home. And Yes its no coincidence that Liz's last name is Swann and she resembled a beatiful swan trapped in a cage (prison) whilst with Will ..longing to burst free. Jack also has the last name of a bird "birds of a feather..fly together" "Turner can burner" for all I care.

No I'm afraid you are wrong. He does EVERYTHING in that movie for Elizabeth. He goes ALL OVER THE PLACE just to save Elizabeth! Do you think he just decided to "leave" Port Royal? Did he say "You know what? I think i'm gonna go find my dad."

Saving his father was an added side-quest. Why do all of you keep acting as if that is all Will was thinking? Because thats what he fought over in the ending fight scene?


Originally posted by LovelyOne
Will hangs upsideown somewhere when Liz really needs him..not once in the movie did Will come to her aid..he forgot about her and when ever she needed him he was sidetracked worrying about other things. So this gave her the chance to fight her own battles and she is pretty good at it too. Jack comes to her aid when she REALLY needs it during the movie and she clings to the leg of her hero as he does so.

Will hangs upside down in the movie attempting to find the man that caused the death sentence for both Will and Elizabeth - Sparrow. What do you mean he didn't do anything while she was in need? Of COURSE he was doing something while she was in need - HE WAS GETTING JACK! THAT WAS THE AGREEMENT! "Get Jack and I'll set you and your fiance free." Will did the only thing he could to save Elizabeth!

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Yes Jack escaped..but the honest streak ran through. I believe that he came back to save Elizabeth more than anyhone in that scene..that whole moment where he comes back was ALL about those two..

Ah so you "believe" it's not fact. Jack went back to help save the rest of his crew. I will say that it was because of Elizabeth's speech. And I'm pretty sure that scene was about attempting to fight off the krakken and save everyone.



Originally posted by lovethemtigers
Yeah, why do you like Will so much? I guess like all men you just don't get what women see in a man like Jack Sparrow, therefore, you can't understand Elizabeth's attraction to him. Yes, she has loved Will all her life. But that's why she's denying her true feelings, which the compass reveals (it points to Jack). She believes that she loves Will, it's expected of her - but Jack represents everything she longs for : freedom, her craving to act on selfish impulse, she has had this obsession with Pirates before she met Will - remember she is singing the Pirate song as a young girl before they see Will. Her father says he is concerned because she finds Pirates fascinating.....that's why I was so convinced that she would somehow end up with Jack even in the first movie, so was very disappointed when that didn't happen....And remember the dreamy look she get on her face in the first movie when her handmaiden says,"That must have been terribly frighting for you, being threatened by that Pirate and all that." And Elizabeth has this little impish smile on her face -thinking about Jack - yes, frightening. Even then she has a crush on Jack. But at this point she still believes she loves Will because that's what she's thought her entire life....

...I already posted that. Look up.

Why does everyone think that Elizabeth is this feisty adventurous girl? She was the snooty rich chick! she was SCARED of pirates! Not a pirate lover! In pirates 1 she never "wanted to break free of her cage." She was friggin kidnapped and then wanted to save will. It's not "expected" for Elizabeth to love Will. It was "expected" for her to love Norrington. To quote your words guys "She broke free of her cage by marrying the blacksmith - Will!"

Quincy Archer
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
\
If this is true, then why did she continue to wear the hat on the black pearl and on the island - everybody on the Black Pearl and the Island knew whe was a girl - espeically with her pretty blond tresses hanging down...

I'm guessing the same reasons why everyone else wears hats. wink

(Oh and I posted a big thing on the last page. But started a new page. Check back there for my evidence pointing all of yours down.)

sweet_kat22
I'm sorry but to me it seems like you are just putting all our points down because you think its fun to stirr us up because we all believe in the same things. And duh, everyone KNOWS that Liz loves pirates she doesnt HATE them. Why the hell did she sing the song in the first movie and tell the Comidor that she finds them "Facinating" ? why would anyone dislike something they find facinating?

brokenxxheart14
umm noo she wasnt expected to love norrington or at least not to me she never loved him u could tell.....she broke out of her cage in the 2nd movie for sure with liking jack. idk thats wut i think.

blackpearl44
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
(Oh and I posted a big thing on the last page. But started a new page. Check back there for my evidence pointing all of yours down.)

OK.....Quincy Archer......if your going to have this attitude.......then don't bother posting......nobody is going to agree with you.......because your just making up things to create an argument..........and nobody appreciates it......

Quincy Archer
Originally posted by sweet_kat22
I'm sorry but to me it seems like you are just putting all our points down because you think its fun to stirr us up because we all believe in the same things. And duh, everyone KNOWS that Liz loves pirates she doesnt HATE them. Why the hell did she sing the song in the first movie and tell the Comidor that she finds them "Facinating" ? why would anyone dislike something they find facinating?

Trust me that's really not what I'm doing. I completely disagree with Jack/Liz.

Right...this is the same liz that reveals later on "I was afraid you were a pirate! That would have been awful!"

She was also pissed when Will revealed he had come along to save her with Jack Sparrow.

"(accusing) Jack?? Jack Sparrow????"

LovelyOne
LOL omg..to say she's not wanting to be a pirate means that you clearly dont understand whats going on in the film..You tell me one thing that suggests Liz isnt turning into a pirate in the latest movie?

She was joking yes..but only with the last moment of the interview..That guy is known over here for making serious interviews with people but also giving them a light heated touch. Its how us brits do it. What would be the point in asking her that question and her answering it if it didnt ring true to the movie..she is THERE to talk about the movie with him.

Will didn't come back to get Jack to give to Davy..it was to come and stab the heart, kill davy and rescue his dad, so that would result in Will not giving Jack to Davy...again WHAT MOVIE were YOU watching?

Well to note. He looks at the the compass before going back..remember that the compass is not working for him throughout the movie and there it suddenly worked..It was pointing at Liz there. I say this because it also "suddenly worked" for him on the beach where it pointed at Liz sitting on the chest..people will argue its the chest but it couldnt have been because it wasnt working for him at all throughout the entire movie and it suddenly works right there..nope I'm not buying that Disney. I mean its not as if they are making these hints so small. .they are actually pretty easy to spot. So yeah Jack would have gone back to save them anyway if Liz wasnt on that ship then the compass would have pointed to where she is. HE would have dont the good deed without even looking at it..He has done good deeds before that.

Liz was NOT a snooty rich girl..even in movie one she has a taste for adventure..as a child she even said "actually I find it all fascinating" her dad stamped that out in her as she grew up (or so he thought)

The taste wasnt as big as it was in this movie..She wanted adventure in movie one and Will quenched it just enough..if she was some snooty rich girl she would have ended up with norrington and completely looked down on Will.

In the second movie..Will is not enough for her..its clear because its actually on the screen in front of us..I'm not basing beliefs on blind faith..i'm basing my opinions on evidence..

Quincy Archer
Originally posted by blackpearl44
OK...........if your going to have this attitude.......then don't bother posting......nobody is going to agree with you.......because your just making up things to create an argument..........and nobody appreciates it......

Oh yeah that did sound a bit mean the way I put that. Sorry about it. But no. I am not making anything up. Everything I've typed has been exact and dead-on. I would never make anything up for the sake of a debate. I am staying away from fan-boyism (which is something you ladies might want to try, which in ur case would be fan-girlism.)

You girls are the ones saying that you "believe" Jack went to save Elizabeth mostly, and that you "believe" that Jack and Liz are destined.

Quincy Archer
Originally posted by LovelyOne
LOL omg..to say she's not wanting to be a pirate means that you clearly dont understand whats going on in the film..You tell me one thing that suggests Liz isnt turning into a pirate in the latest movie?

She was joking yes..but only with the last moment of the interview..That guy is known over here for making serious interviews with people but also giving them a light heated touch. Its how us brits do it.

Will disnt come back to get Jack to give to Davy..it was to come and stab the heart, kill davy and rescue his dad, so that would result in Will not giving Jack to Davy...again WHAT MOVIE were YOU watching?

Well to note. He looks at the the compass before going back..remember that the compass is not working for him throughout the movie and there it suddenly worked..It was pointing at Liz there. I say this because it also "suddenly worked" for him on the beach where it pointed at Liz sitting on the chest..people will argue its the chest but it couldnt have been because it wasnt working for him at all throughout the entire movie and it suddeny works right there..nope I'm not buying that Disney. I mean its not asif they are making these hinnts so small..they are actually pretty easy to spot. So yeh Jack would have gone back to save them anyway if Liz wasnt on that ship then the compass would have pointed to ehere she is. HE would have dont the good deed without even looking at it..He has done good deeds before that.

Liz was NOT a snooty rich girl..even in movie one she has a taste for adventure..as a child she even said "actually I find it all facisnating" her dad stamped that out in her as she grew up (or so he thought)

The taste wasnt as big as it was in this movie..She wanted adventure in movie one and Will quenched it just enough..if she was some snooty rich girl she would have ended up with norrington and completley looked down on Will.

In the second movie..Will is not enough for her..its clear because its actually on the screen in front of us..I'm not basing beliefs on blind faith..i'm basing my opinions on evidence..

Look I'm sorry that you are starting to get agitated. Really I am. However, I have been polite enough as to match my counter-arguements with your statements in quotes. Could you please do the same for me? I'm confused as to what you are addressing when you are saying things.

And ladies, please could you just read what everyone else is asking? I'd prefer not to re-state things again and again.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
Look I'm sorry that you are starting to get agitated. Really I am. However, I have been polite enough as to match my counter-arguements with your statements in quotes. Could you please do the same for me? I'm confused as to what you are addressing when you are saying things.

And ladies, please could you just read what everyone else is asking? I'd prefer not to re-state things again and again.

Sorry. If I do that then it means I will exceed the word limit allowed on the page..its pretty much going in order of everything you said smile

I'm not getting agitated..I'm actually laughing at some of the things you are saying because it directly contradicts what the movie is clearly showing us.

Quincy Archer
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Sorry. If I do that then it means I will exceed the word limit allowed on the page..its pretty much going in order of everything you said smile

I'm not getting agitated..I'm actually laughing at some of the things you are saying.

Pretty Much? *sigh* you ladies are soooo troublesome.

Laughing? Surely you don't mean my arguements are "laughably stupid." I'm positive all of the stuff I'm saying makes sense.

blackpearl44
^^ Yea, that's exactly what I think....

Quincy Archer
And now: My rebuttle

Originally posted by LovelyOne
LOL omg..to say she's not wanting to be a pirate means that you clearly dont understand whats going on in the film..You tell me one thing that suggests Liz isnt turning into a pirate in the latest movie?

I said she didn't want to be a pirate? When? I said in the first movie she was scared of pirates, and was disappointed that Will was associated with one.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Will didn't come back to get Jack to give to Davy..it was to come and stab the heart, kill davy and rescue his dad, so that would result in Will not giving Jack to Davy...again WHAT MOVIE were YOU watching?

What are you talking about? I didn't say Will went to go get jack to give to davy. That doesn't even make sense. I don't even know what arguement you're talking about there. Could you elaborate further?

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Liz was NOT a snooty rich girl..even in movie one she has a taste for adventure..as a child she even said "actually I find it all fascinating" her dad stamped that out in her as she grew up (or so he thought)

*sigh* like I said before: This is the same girl that later on said "I was afraid you were a pirate! That would have been awful!"

Originally posted by LovelyOne
The taste wasnt as big as it was in this movie..She wanted adventure in movie one and Will quenched it just enough..if she was some snooty rich girl she would have ended up with norrington and completely looked down on Will.

Allright I didn't word that right. I didn't mean snooty rich girl. I meant snooty rich girl. That was in defense of my arguement with the expectations of her marrying Norrington - which no one has addressed.


Originally posted by LovelyOne
In the second movie..Will is not enough for her..its clear because its actually on the screen in front of us..I'm not basing beliefs on blind faith..i'm basing my opinions on evidence..

How is will not enough? Jack is hanging out on the boat. You said yourself you agreed with me that Will was more active than Jack in that movie. And instead of each and every one of you "saying" that there is evidence, be good debators and provide it.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
Pretty Much? *sigh* you ladies are soooo troublesome.

Laughing? Surely you don't mean my arguements are "laughably stupid." I'm positive all of the stuff I'm saying makes sense.

Not laughably stupid..I just find it quite amusing that you seem to be missing whats really going on with the characters and filling in the blanks with aload of irrelevant stuff that didn't even happen in the movie..I know this because I have seen it about 10 times. I'm pretty confident that I know whats really going on ( not 100% because I haven't seen part 3 yet)..Film studies helped me in that department..

I guessed the Will/Davy similarity based on what I observed and understood about the story progression/plot and character development..only to be pleasantly surprised that I was proved right when looking at an interview with the director a few days after I sussed it out.

So believe me..I KNOW what I'm talking about most of the time. I don't mouth off on a theory based on little to no understanding of whats happening on screen and between the characters. Everything I say is backed up with pretty legit meanings. Where as what I see with you..is an attempt to understand whats really going on..and it just keeps drawing up blanks its not consistent with what the movie is trying to say.

Also when you say that she's scared of pirates... she's not scared of pirates. As a little girl she said that she liked the thought of it. And it becomes a little bit surpressed but you can see in movie one that she loved the adventure and felt a great deal of respect for Jack.

Also I think it silly to suggest that she is afraid of pirates in this movie..when the heck did that arise? I didnt ever see her showing a fear of being among them in the movie..if anthing she was enjoying being free like them. Even at the end she basically became seduced by becoming a pirate. Jack said she would. And she did.

Quincy Archer
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Not laughably stupid..I just find it quite amusing that you seem to be missing whats really going on with the characters and filling in the blanks with aload of irrelevant stuff that didn't even happen in the movie..I know this because I have seen it about 10 times. I'm pretty confident that I know whats really going on ( not 100% because I haven't seen part 3 yet)..Film studies helped me in that department..

You aren't addressing the things that I am saying. I'm really trying not to get angry or irritated, but the only thing that you have used your film studies to slightly influence me was the whole "hat thing."

Do me a favor Ms. Sparrow. POINT OUT the irrelevant stuff that I say. SHOW me the weakness in my arguement instead of simply saying that it's weak.

You can't.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Everything I say is backed up with pretty legit meanings. Where as what I see with you..is an attempt to understand whats really going on..and it just keeps drawing up blanks its not consistent with what the movie is trying to say.

I'm sorry. I really don't want to be mean here, but I'm going to say the exact same thing about your own arguement. Whereas I pick exactly from your post, and pick out your weaknesses, you all simply just kinda keep saying the same stuff, hoping for different results. What "Blanks" am I drawing, and what is "Inconsistent."

Like I said before, your weakness in arguement is that you aren't pointing anything out, just saying that its there. It would be like if I were a teacher, correcting a test that you took and said "You got 3 wrong." you would obviously say "Which three?" But the way you are debating, I would respond "3 of them." And not elaborate.

LovelyOne
Double post sorry .

Quincy Archer
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Also when you say that she's scared of pirates... she's not scared of pirates. As a little girl she said that she liked the thought of it. And it becomes a little bit surpressed but you can see in movie one that she loved the adventure and felt a great deal of respect for Jack.

I already said, she IS afraid of Pirates. At least at first. You said she called them fascinating...and then I counter-argued with (and AGAIN I have to repeat myself due to no one listening) "I was afraid you were a pirate, that would have been awful!" I'm sure she was scared shitless from the adventure, and I'm sure she is grateful for Jack in helping to save them. She at this point - Loves Will. big grin

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Also I think it silly to suggest that she is afraid of pirates in this movie..when the heck did that arise? I didnt ever see her showing a fear of being among them in the movie..if anthing she was enjoying being free like them. Even at the end she basically became seduced by becoming a pirate. Jack said she ould. And she did.

*sigh*

once again, you aren't paying attention to what I'm saying.

I'm saying she was afraid of pirates in movie one. I never said "In Dead Man's Chest she was scared of all the pirates!" She wasn't "seduced" by being a pirate. She chained Jack to save everyone else.

lovethemtigers
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
Pretty Much? *sigh* you ladies are soooo troublesome.

Laughing? Surely you don't mean my arguements are "laughably stupid." I'm positive all of the stuff I'm saying makes sense.

Oh Quincy - you have made this all so much more interesting. I am laughing reading all this stuff. it'a all kind of funny isnt'- but I guess we will have to wait until next May to see who gets the last laugh. If you are right and Liz and Will do get together -then I guess I will forever be watching Pirates 2 over and over and fantasising what could have been.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
You aren't addressing the things that I am saying. I'm really trying not to get angry or irritated, but the only thing that you have used your film studies to slightly influence me was the whole "hat thing."

Do me a favor Ms. Sparrow. POINT OUT the irrelevant stuff that I say. SHOW me the weakness in my arguement instead of simply saying that it's weak.

You can't.

1/You say she is afraid of pirates..when the WHOLE movie was one massive hint that she is turning into one..even the blooming trailor and production posters hint it.

Characters dont stay the same as a story progresses..otherwise its not a story. Whats the point in telling a story if the characters dont develop? you tell me one story where a character doesn't develop and then I will believe what you say about her not liking pirates.

This is all the proof you need that she is turning into a pirate: THE ENDING SCENE was a result of everything she was craving to do from the moment Will left her in the cell..which was to do something selfish and bad and free spirited. like a pirate..

2. You seem to think that Will is better suited to what liz really wants when its clearly not the case. The whole point in this movie was to seperate them so that Liz would develop as a character, into a free spirited character. Also there is the proof that these two are not working out together. The director himself said in an interview that he is basically making Will and Liz relationship mirror what happened to Davy Jones and his fiance, Which was "davy lost his love who became wild and untamable as the sea" This movie has shown us that Liz's character has developed in a similar way. And yes she is becomeing something that Will didnt fall for.







OK please wait whilst i find each individual thing and explain what I mean.

lovethemtigers
Quincy - that's what being a pirate is all about - putting your own selfish needs before others. That's what she does when she chains him to the mast. She has become a pirate. Why else would they have Johnny DEpp whisper "Pirate." But remeber Jack isn't a typical pirate. That's why he lost the Black Pearl to Barboorsa - deep down inside he is a good man. At times he does things that are selfish and puts others at risk - but then, don't we all at times...And to say that LovelyOne or no one else, for that matter backs up their theories. You are so wrong. How many times must we point out all of the metaphors, symbolisms, conversations, innuendos, etc that go on for you to get that everything that happens in Pirates 2 is leading up to the Kiss and the underlying theme that Elizabeth has become a Pirate and her most deepest desire is Jack... Why would they emphazise the compass so much saying that "it points to what you most desire, what your heart wants most."? Kind of ironic, don't you think, after pointing that out - there are three times in the movie when Lizzie holds the compass it points to Jack. The reason she looks agitated is because she knows that she is attracted to Jack, she trying to surpress it because she knows she shouldn't have these feelings - so she is angry that the Compass is telling her the truth.

blackpearl44
Wow.................just..................just wow...........

LovelyOne
Ok I seriously cant be assed to find everything you have said. Its getting late here

What is it that I left unresolved?

Quincy Archer
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
Oh Quincy - you have made this all so much more interesting. I am laughing reading all this stuff. it'a all kind of funny isnt'- but I guess we will have to wait until next May to see who gets the last laugh. If you are right and Liz and Will do get together -then I guess I will forever be watching Pirates 2 over and over and fantasising what could have been.

If I'm wrong, I'll Pull a Jackie-Boy and jump into the Krakken.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
1/You say she is afraid of pirates..when the WHOLE movie was one massive hint that she is turning into one..even the blooming trailor and production posters hint it.

I said she "was" afraid of pirates. Again, I must repeat myself.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Characters dont stay the same as a story progresses..otherwise its not a story. Whats the point in telling a story if the characters dont develop? you tell me one story where a character doesn't develop and then I will believe what you say about her not liking pirates.

Let her develop all she wants. If a character develops, that does not mean that they must find a new love big grin

Originally posted by LovelyOne
This is all the proof you need that she is turning into a pirate: THE ENDING SCENE was a result of everything she was craving to do from the moment Will left her in the cell..which was to do something selfish and bad with Jack..to feel like a pirate.

Go ahead. I don't care if she turns into a pirate. You seem to be forgetting what this whole debate is about. I am trying to explain why jack and Liz should not and will not end up together. Heck a hot pirate is cool.

2. You seem to think that Will is better suited to what liz really wants when its clearly not the case. The whole point in this movie was to seperate them so that Liz would develop as a character, into a free spirited character. Also there is the proof that these two are not working out together. The director himself said in an interview that he is basically making Will and Liz relationship mirror what happened to Davy Jones and his fiance, Which was "davy lost his love who became wild and untamable as the sea" This movie has shown us that Liz's character has developed in a similar way. And yes she is becomeing something that Will didnt fall for.

Fine. I reallly really don't care that they're relationship will mirror davy jones and his loves relationship.

That has nothing to do with her and Jack. They might feel a bit of attraction, heck she is turning more pirate like by the minute - but Will and Liz will end up together. Argue with me over love with pirates if you want I guess...but I've already agreed with you.

Please get back on track with the Jack and Elizabeth thing.

LovelyOne
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
Quincy - that's what being a pirate is all about - putting your own selfish needs before others. That's what she does when she chains him to the mast. She has become a pirate. Why else would they have Johnny DEpp whisper "Pirate." But remeber Jack isn't a typical pirate. That's why he lost the Black Pearl to Barboorsa - deep down inside he is a good man. At times he does things that are selfish and puts others at risk - but then, don't we all at times...And to say that LovelyOne or no one else, for that matter backs up their theories. You are so wrong. How many times must we point out all of the metaphors, symbolisms, conversations, innuendos, etc that go on for you to get that everything that happens in Pirates 2 is leading up to the Kiss and the underlying theme that Elizabeth has become a Pirate and her most deepest desire is Jack... Why would they emphazise the compass so much saying that "it points to what you most desire, what your heart wants most."? Kind of ironic, don't you think, after pointing that out - there are three times in the movie when Lizzie holds the compass it points to Jack. The reason she looks agitated is because she knows that she is attracted to Jack, she trying to surpress it because she knows she shouldn't have these feelings - so she is angry that the Compass is telling her the truth.

Thanks.. rolling on floor laughing

I have explained these things so many times now I'm starting to just say that they are there instead of backing them up. It gets tiering when you kp doing it over and over.

Quincy..read through the other threads where we have already disussed all this stuff umpteen times already.

Quincy Archer
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
Quincy - that's what being a pirate is all about - putting your own selfish needs before others. That's what she does when she chains him to the mast. She has become a pirate. Why else would they have Johnny DEpp whisper "Pirate." But remeber Jack isn't a typical pirate. That's why he lost the Black Pearl to Barboorsa - deep down inside he is a good man. At times he does things that are selfish and puts others at risk - but then, don't we all at times...And to say that LovelyOne or no one else, for that matter backs up their theories. You are so wrong. How many times must we point out all of the metaphors, symbolisms, conversations, innuendos, etc that go on for you to get that everything that happens in Pirates 2 is leading up to the Kiss.

Aw my god you guys are giving me a head-ache. I know what a pirate is. Thanks for that?

Again - I agree with the whole "she's a pirate thing!" And AGAIN I REPEAT MYSELF - It has nothing to do with her love for "Jack"See my previous post. We are talking about Jack/Will/Elizabeth.

Why is everyone getting pissed off at me? I'm sorry "lovethemtigers" but I really don't think you guys have "pointed out all of your theories and stuff." Sweet job on that by the way. You have given me 2 metaphors. That's it. And I have already addressed them. I was addressing the fact that your "evidence" is unmatched by mine.

Fangirls are crazy.

Originally posted by blackpearl44
Wow.................just..................just wow...........

Sweet...addition......to the debate. Look Black Pearl, I haven't addressed you at all. Please don't insult and mock me. It's not very nice.Originally posted by LovelyOne
Ok I seriously cant be assed to find everything you have said. Its getting late here

I can say the same about this: Originally posted by LovelyOne
Quincy..read through the other threads where we have already disussed all this stuff umpteen times already. Thanks.. rolling on floor laughing

Originally posted by LovelyOne I have explained these things so many times now I'm starting to just say that they are there instead of backing them up. It gets tiering when you kp doing it over and over..

What do I keep doing over and over again? Girls, please just point things out.

katelovespirate
Awe Quincy, we wouldnt be here if we knew what was going to happen. let us have our fun, seriously buddy. i'm actually sort of glad you are here, because no one has disagreed with us for a while... smile it gives us something to debate about anyways.

Our main theories have centered around character development.... Liz's character developing forwards, while Will has been more and more distracted by his dad. Also, little metaphors can be added like the Jack Hat metaphor (Liz is wearing a jack-ish hat for most of the second film, symbolizing the part of him thats missing, while in tortuga he tries on multiple hats, not finding one he likes... etc. LovelyOne puts it better). We have also compared it to various other trilogies (star wars, for example, also matrix, x-men, etc) where the girl ends up with the bad boy. We have discussed character nuances like the kiss scene over and over, deciding the curiosity scene makes it clear that liz is becoming a pirate, while Will might not be... gosh i am forgetting tons of stuff, but basically, we all think Jack is the main character and should get the girl.
As i said before, we dont know what will happen. we are like scientists discusssing global warming or something. so lets play nice and enjoy a great movie together, whatever we believe, okay? XOXOXO smile

brokenxxheart14
its kinda funny cus w/e we say its not gonna change ur mind and w/e u say its not gonna change our minds.....this could go on foreverrr wacko

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
If I'm wrong, I'll Pull a Jackie-Boy and jump into the Krakken.



I said she "was" afraid of pirates. Again, I must repeat myself.



Let her develop all she wants. If a character develops, that does not mean that they must find a new love big grin



Go ahead. I don't care if she turns into a pirate. You seem to be forgetting what this whole debate is about. I am trying to explain why jack and Liz should not and will not end up together. Heck a hot pirate is cool.

2. You seem to think that Will is better suited to what liz really wants when its clearly not the case. The whole point in this movie was to seperate them so that Liz would develop as a character, into a free spirited character. Also there is the proof that these two are not working out together. The director himself said in an interview that he is basically making Will and Liz relationship mirror what happened to Davy Jones and his fiance, Which was "davy lost his love who became wild and untamable as the sea" This movie has shown us that Liz's character has developed in a similar way. And yes she is becomeing something that Will didnt fall for.

Fine. I reallly really don't care that they're relationship will mirror davy jones and his loves relationship.

That has nothing to do with her and Jack. They might feel a bit of attraction, heck she is turning more pirate like by the minute - but Will and Liz will end up together. Argue with me over love with pirates if you want I guess...but I've already agreed with you.

Please get back on track with the Jack and Elizabeth thing.

---------------------------------------------

there wouldn't have been such an emphasis on Jack/Liz on screen chemistry in this movie if it wasnt going to play a MASSIVE part in the next. This entire movie - the start - the middle - the finish was all about Liz changing..Her character development was the single most important factor to the movie because it lead to the massive twist at the end.

The hints that she is faling for jack are
The compass pointing to him 3 times
The constant denial she's in over that fact
The fact that she was slowly beginning to love the thought of being with Jack. It happened in 2 moments
1. The sexual suggestion scene. She pretends to be all disgusted but secretly goes off and smiles.
2. The curiosity scene. She is saying she resembles one thing but her actions tell different. Jack is a pirate..she knows it..She knew he was about to kiss her despite the fact that he is a good man. When JAck pulled away (due to the black spot) you can see how dissapointed she is..heck she even pouts there...she didnt like the thought of not getting the kiss.
The fact the wedding looked doomed from the offset (weather looked like a funeral more than anything)
Will see's her before the wedding (BAD LUCK usually means the wedding wont ever happen)
She resembles a bird in a cage during the scene where she is with will at the beginning. symbolizes that married life will be very restricted
there are many more..you want me to discuss them? Or you could save me the effort and actually read the posts I have made in the past about everything I am saying.

The hat one actually symbolized that Jack wants Liz..also the compass with him did too.

The movie is less about Jack and his denial..its all about Liz because her change in character was crucial to the dramatic ending of the movie.

katelovespirate
PS: whoever Liz ends up with, I believe in my heart she will have a steamy affair with Jack Sparrow once a year...

LovelyOne
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
Aw my god you guys are giving me a head-ache. I know what a pirate is. Thanks for that?

Again - I agree with the whole "she's a pirate thing!" And AGAIN I REPEAT MYSELF - It has nothing to do with her love for "Jack"See my previous post. We are talking about Jack/Will/Elizabeth.

Why is everyone getting pissed off at me? I'm sorry "lovethemtigers" but I really don't think you guys have "pointed out all of your theories and stuff." Sweet job on that by the way. You have given me 2 metaphors. That's it. And I have already addressed them. I was addressing the fact that your "evidence" is unmatched by mine.

Fangirls are crazy.



Sweet...addition......to the debate. Look Black Pearl, I haven't addressed you at all. Please don't insult and mock me. It's not very nice.

I can say the same about this: Thanks.. rolling on floor laughing



What do I keep doing over and over again? Girls, please just point things out.

We have been over all the things we say so many times that it gets tiring..It was before you even came along laughing out loud look around the site you will see it. Why dont you actually go back through the threads and READ it instead of making us repeat ourselves..

I'm not a fangirl..If I didnt think that there was a single chance with Jack/Liz based on what I see in the film I WOULDN'T be supporting the Liz/Jack thing. But there are..and I have been over them so many times with the other girls on this site that ots become too much to keep saying it over again. We have found out alot of hidden messages..seriously look back through the Jack/Liz threads and you will see the evidence to back up what e are saying right now.

sweet_kat22
I cant believe you guys are still on this. I give up, this thread isnt fun anymore. I missed too much on my way home from work anyway stick out tongue

<< THERE IS MORE FROM THIS THREAD HERE >>