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Gill
(street fighter III: third strike)



vs.


Omega Rugal
(2002)

Gill

Gill.. cuz they copied orochi and gave him a screen covering supermove

woot capcom!

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
Gill.. cuz they copied orochi and gave him a screen covering supermove

woot capcom!

Gill has no connection to orochi, infavt the moves are completely different. and that's ironic considering how much snk rips off capcom in their earlier days.

the moves are not completely different... Gill's light hits all over the screen.. exactly like orochi's... sugar coating ftw

capcom shouldnt have super moves, if they didnt copy off SNK.. <3

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
the moves are not completely different... Gill's light hits all over the screen.. exactly like orochi's... sugar coating ftw

capcom shouldnt have super moves, if they didnt copy off SNK.. <3


gill was introduced in 1997, and orochi did not event the first super that covered the screen.

And as for the super, the concept originated from special moves which capcom created prior to snk<3

yeah.. isnt it a coincidence king of fighters 97 would come out in ... 1997?... omg!

yeah? which super?... </3 I'd love to know.. both which super first covered the screen (and I'm talking about hit you no matter where you were on the screen.. not just crap effects), and which 'concept' SNK allegedly copied from

Gill, because he can revive himself... then again, if you do a super-special just as he's reviving, he'll die again, so possibly Omega Rugal... plus Rugal is just so much more badass XD

tis true.. I dont see him making a comeback if he gets hit by the seraphic wing super, though... would be 'hilarious' if he used reflect just as seraphic wing started and all the damage reflected back

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
the moves are not completely different... Gill's light hits all over the screen.. exactly like orochi's... sugar coating ftw

capcom shouldnt have super moves, if they didnt copy off SNK.. <3

what the hell are you saying!!!

show some respect, sf is the mother of fightinggames and is because of them you have several games like Kof, Guilty Gear etc


And about copying, IT IS SNK WHO COPIED MORE FROM CAPCOM :P :P : P :P

And Gill win from Omega Rugal.

Sephriac Wing

and besides his resurection move won't let him die

he can only resurrect once, and while he's resurrecting he's vulnerable

who says he has to resurect

what if does Sephriac Wing at the beginning of the battle.

He can take soo many damage and his strenght is unbelieveble in the game. One of the most overpowerd dudes i know.

Omega Rugal isn't the strongest incarnation of him. I thought it was God Rugal

third strike was released before kof 97 right?

why does it even matter anyway, third strike is superior to kof 97 and if anyone disagrees you are a fool.

Originally posted by looldude
third strike was released before kof 97 right?

why does it even matter anyway, third strike is superior to kof 97 and if anyone disagrees you are a fool.

Gill first appearded in new generation, which came out in 97

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
yeah.. isnt it a coincidence king of fighters 97 would come out in ... 1997?... omg!

yeah? which super?... </3 I'd love to know.. both which super first covered the screen (and I'm talking about hit you no matter where you were on the screen.. not just crap effects), and which 'concept' SNK allegedly copied from

Which concept snk copied from!


Art of fighting cast.


Ryo & Robert

john

Yuri has a denjin hadou ken,shin shoryuken and shungokusatsu attack

the list goes on.

And special moves like projectiles came out first on sf, so by your logic snk copied.

Here we go again. More Capcom vs. SNK arguments about who did this first. They're both good companies, and has created great games, lets leave it at that!

Each Gill in SF 3 gets stronger and more powerful than before, each clone of Gill is more powerful than the one before. If Gill returns in SF4 witha new super but not the main boss I wouldn't be suprise. The most powerful of Rugal is God Rugal from Cap vs snk 2, even I serve him with regular Akuma, Ken, Ryu, Terry, Rock. Hell when I fought Omega Rugal 2002 I kicked his ass up and down wth Iori, K, Terry, Ryo, Takuma, Goenitz, KOF team 97. Gill to me is the hardest and the cheapiest bosses I have ever played expect for Igniz and Makai.

Gill wins the majority.

Originally posted by shin_remy
what the hell are you saying!!!

show some respect, sf is the mother of fightinggames and is because of them you have several games like Kof, Guilty Gear etc


And about copying, IT IS SNK WHO COPIED MORE FROM CAPCOM :P :P : P :P



you realise you'd still be doing normal special moves if SNK hadnt made supers right

to add, SNK has had much better ideas than Capcom... however SNK has had less money to play with.. so less opportunities to move their series forward

Gill can be struck down while resurrecting, so I dont know if you played the same street fighter 3 that everyone else has been playing

Originally posted by looldude
third strike was released before kof 97 right?

why does it even matter anyway, third strike is superior to kof 97 and if anyone disagrees you are a fool.

they both came out in 97 if you havent noticed the year tag on KoF

what exactly is foolish about disagreeing?... there are many people who abhor the idea of third strike, or kof respectively

KoF 97 is superior for me because of its gameplay balance and ultra-responsiveness that you simply dont get from fighting games anymore... but its obvious that you're comparing it to a game that was released 3 years later... logic ftw

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Which concept snk copied from!


Art of fighting cast.


Ryo & Robert

john

Yuri has a denjin hadou ken,shin shoryuken and shungokusatsu attack

the list goes on.

And special moves like projectiles came out first on sf, so by your logic snk copied.

ew.. and your entire argument is based on ryukou no ken... rather than the matter at hand... SNK made a screen covering super first... gill is a wannabe

Do explain Yuri's denjin and shungoku attacks (I've seen the shoreppa attack, and it is quite corny)... I have never heard of them ... also, she does not have a shin shoryuken

strangely... Ryukou no ken had far better concepts... such as needing 'spirit' to throw a fireball or use a special attack.. rather than using fireballs the entire match, which seems to be a favorite street fighter tactic... for people who copy so much.. they sure innovated the fighting game genre.... 3v3 matches anyone?..

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
you realise you'd still be doing normal special moves if SNK hadnt made supers right

to add, SNK has had much better ideas than Capcom... however SNK has had less money to play with.. so less opportunities to move their series forward

First snk did not invent the super move, they used a system called death move which allowed you to perform strong attacks when your low on health. this is nothing like the super move system.




Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

KoF 97 is superior for me because of its gameplay balance and ultra-responsiveness that you simply dont get from fighting games anymore... but its obvious that you're comparing it to a game that was released 3 years later... logic ftw



ew.. and your entire argument is based on ryukou no ken... rather than the matter at hand... SNK made a screen covering super first... gill is a wannabe



Do explain Yuri's denjin and shungoku attacks (I've seen the shoreppa attack, and it is quite corny)... I have never heard of them ... also, she does not have a shin shoryuken

also strangely... Ryukou no ken had far better concepts... such as needing 'spirit' to throw a fireball or use a special attack.. rather than using fireballs the entire match, which seems to be a favorite street fighter tactic... for people who copy so much.. they sure innovated the fighting game genre.... 3v3 matches anyone?..

God your clue less, yuri does ahve a shun goku satsu shin shoryuken, and denjin hadou ken technique, play kof 2000 or 2001.

Right art of fighting was so good that's why snk began to rip off street fighter 2 game play.


The super art was not invented by snk, prior to super moves snk had "Death Moves" which allowed you to do a strong attack near death, that is nothing like the super art as we know it, which Snk borrowed from capcom.


Kof is soo innovative, basically whoever pulls of the most combos win, great strategy

and actually capcom is more innovative, custom combo's, super arts, tag team all started by capcom.

tag team was taken from the concept of 3v3, but put into real time.. so theres that..

yes .. a death move = a super move for those not in the know.. because it must meet a condition for you to use it.. the fact that it does mega damage.. is why its called super.. whoa... other words for it include desperation move, and crazy death move

I dont play the 2k KoF's... thats when playmore took over.. /vomit

I'd hate to be the one to take off your goggles... but SF relies heavily on combos as well... 'every' fighting game does..

custom combos is capcom.. super arts isnt... tag teams a spin off of KoF 3v3... so you get partial credit

you're basicaly calling it different because its 'near death' and not whenever you feel like using it.. either case requires a condition... so its not as original as you're hoping it to be

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
tag team was taken from the concept of 3v3, but put into real time.. so theres that..

how is tag team anything like 3 vs 3, their completely different.



Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

yes .. a death move = a super move for those not in the know.. because it must meet a condition for you to use it.. the fact that it does mega damage.. is why its called super.. whoa... other words for it include desperation move, and crazy death move


Death Move and a Super Art are nothing alike, comparing them would be like comparing scorpions spear attack to spider mans webbing.


Anyways, here's the main characteristics of Capcom's supers:

1)only available with a full meter, which is gained by attacking and doing specials.
2)Freeze frames when super is activated.
3)Invincibility frames.
4)Powerful attack

SNK DM's:

1)available when life is low.
2)powerful attack.

now ask yourself, which model do SNK supers follow now?

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN



custom combos is capcom.. super arts isnt... tag teams a spin off of KoF 3v3... so you get partial credit



super arts are capcom,and so is tag team. both were copied by snk later on.

all you're doing is spinning it around on the terms of 'condition' which is quite lame

either you wait til ur lifebar is low.. or you wait for a super meter to fill up... you do the same shit at the end so really wheres the originality?

comparing "super arts" to death moves is not at all comparing it as if it were scorpion spear and spiderman webbing... thats just silly

uh.
have you ever thought of the actual release date?

so what you are saying is that both games were MADE the exact time and day?

give me a ****ing break. lol LOGIC PLZ.

Third strike is also superior than its predecessors 1998, 1999, 2000, etc.

You want to argue that as well? Answer this question, why isnt KOF games being played in large and POPULAR tournaments as much as capcom games?

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
all you're doing is spinning it around on the terms of 'condition' which is quite lame

either you wait til ur lifebar is low.. or you wait for a super meter to fill up... you do the same shit at the end so really wheres the originality?

comparing "super arts" to death moves is not at all comparing it as if it were scorpion spear and spiderman webbing... thats just silly


Again the only similarity that death moves have with the super art is the fact they take extra damage. super street fighter 2 turbo came out 1994, the same year as KOF 94'. the dates are to close for it to be considered a copy. And if death moves are such a big deal, why did snk later implement the super art into their fighting games?

Originally posted by looldude
uh.
have you ever thought of the actual release date?

so what you are saying is that both games were MADE the exact time and day?

give me a ****ing break. lol LOGIC PLZ.

Third strike is also superior than its predecessors 1998, 1999, 2000, etc.

You want to argue that as well? Answer this question, why isnt KOF games being played in large and POPULAR tournaments as much as capcom games?

i'd say bad marketing more than anything else

have you actually played KOF? it's just as good as Street Fighter, if not better on some levels

Originally posted by Kayne Archeron
i'd say bad marketing more than anything else

have you actually played KOF? it's just as good as Street Fighter, if not better on some levels

I play kof it's pretty good but, I wouldn't compare it to street fighter. IMO kof lacks game restriction.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Again the only similarity that death moves have with the super art is the fact they take extra damage. super street fighter 2 turbo came out 1994, the same year as KOF 94'. the dates are to close for it to be considered a copy. And if death moves are such a big deal, why did snk later implement the super art into their fighting games?

lets take ryukou no ken for example.. came out same time as street fighter 2... (the first one)

you charge your spirit bar to full.. boom.. haoshokouken... theres your SNK super art...

it was basically manual charge bar (which yielded a level 1 super, until combined with a low energy bar for an even higher damage super (Lv 2) until 97 I think, where the 'diamonds' came into play

I'm pretty sure 98 was the same deal as 97 (but less quality).. and 99 into the 2k's is where gaymore started taking over

if you noticed, the only two KoF grooves to appear in Cap vs SNK2 are the two that I've just mentioned... they're good.. everything else gaymore added sucked

Originally posted by looldude
uh.
have you ever thought of the actual release date?

so what you are saying is that both games were MADE the exact time and day?

give me a ****ing break. lol LOGIC PLZ.

Third strike is also superior than its predecessors 1998, 1999, 2000, etc.

You want to argue that as well? Answer this question, why isnt KOF games being played in large and POPULAR tournaments as much as capcom games?

Do you KNOW the EXACT release date?.. LOGIC PLZ indeed... give 'me' the break if anything... pushing your opinions off as fact is tacky as hell

its not superior to KoF 97 IMO... you can say whatever you want about the ones afterwards.. theyre SNK's 'gaymore-phase' property as far as I'm concerned

actually KoF is more celebrated in places like korea and singapore.. I believe mexico also thinks highly of the KoF series

---------------------------

And please people for the love of god add a poll to these battles lol.. I enjoy talking with all of you, but constantly going over the same issues gets pointless with no poll numbers behind it
(I'm saying in general.. not this discussion in particular)

Satsujin you're posting nonsense

Snk copied indeed many attacks from capcom, Especially YUHRI!!!!!!!

And the most important people in Snk who worked on Kof and a few other titles have worked under Capcom for the Sf 2 series!!! I bet you didn't know that didn't you.

and wtf are you talking about supers. If sf never came out, you never had games like KOF or GG or Fatal Fury

Cause those people have worked for capcom.

And GOD RUGAL VS GILL is how it should be and NOT Omega Rugal

and it is bullshit about what game came out first. Gill is NO RIPOFF!!

Do you know how many people of SNK are a Rip off. you have no idea.

And yes i play sf 3. more then you think. i even post sometimes in topics when i'm home from a sf/tekken tourney!!

you think you're smart, don't you? You really hate SF!! i have been reading you're post for a while, and i can see only negative post from you!!!

Well SNK IS GAY!! And YOU ARE A GAYLOVER!! 2nd hands game company who rips off capcom with their pathetic graphics.

Originally posted by shin_remy
Satsujin you're posting nonsense

Snk copied indeed many attacks from capcom, Especially YUHRI!!!!!!!

And the most important people in Snk who worked on Kof and a few other titles have worked under Capcom for the Sf 2 series!!! I bet you didn't know that didn't you.

and wtf are you talking about supers. If sf never came out, you never had games like KOF or GG or Fatal Fury

Cause those people have worked for capcom.

And GOD RUGAL VS GILL is how it should be and NOT Omega Rugal

and it is bullshit about what game came out first. Gill is NO RIPOFF!!

Do you know how many people of SNK are a Rip off. you have no idea.

And yes i play sf 3. more then you think. i even post sometimes in topics when i'm home from a sf/tekken tourney!!

you think you're smart, don't you? You really hate SF!! i have been reading you're post for a while, and i can see only negative post from you!!!

Well SNK IS GAY!! And YOU ARE A GAYLOVER!! 2nd hands game company who rips off capcom with their pathetic graphics.

- a link to your so called 'facts' of SNK programmers working previously for capcom's SF2 would be appreciated... otherwise its bs

- didnt say gill was a ripoff.. learn to read... I said his seraphic wing is a direct ripoff of orochi's 'return to nothing'

- I didnt even ask if you played Sf3.. what difference does it make if you do or dont?

- Smart?.. I never give myself props.. I merely root for the underdog.. and if I get hated for it.. all the better

- Oh yes.. because if supers were never invented by capcom, SNK would never create an entire franchise........../end sarcasm

- Hate street fighter?.. of course not... why would I own third strike and cap vs snk 2 if I hated it?.... I 'hate' (if thats really the word we must use) the fact that everyone swears capcom pioneered everything there is about 2d fighting.. 'that' makes me sick... not street fighter

Can you prove gill's moves are a rip off of orochis?
please thanks.

I don't see why everyone is so worked up... both franchises are great fighting games...

As for the whole Return to Nothing vs Seraphic Wing thing... Well they are both multi hitting screen filling super moves, but there are many important differences... they both have different properties, Gill's does more hits and more damage, but Gill also has alot more liabilities when using it, like shifting to the middle of the screen, and having a huge startup delay.

Orochi's is instantaneous, with a maximum hit value of 16.

I beleive we've had this diescussion before, in one of my early threads...

Originally posted by looldude
Can you prove gill's moves are a rip off of orochis?
please thanks. Honestly, from my standpoint.. I played KoF 97 for a few months before I read about street fighter 3 and how its amazing animation chip is something to witness

but apparently.. as any video game copywright is only done by years (and not months or days).. I'm merely going by my personal experience..

what month have any of you played the first SF3 in 97?

the arcade release of sf3 was on feburary

Originally posted by looldude
the arcade release of sf3 was on feburary where might I find this information?

is there an arcade release database somewheres?

yes check gamefaqs.

Originally posted by shin_remy
Satsujin you're posting nonsense

Snk copied indeed many attacks from capcom, Especially YUHRI!!!!!!!

And the most important people in Snk who worked on Kof and a few other titles have worked under Capcom for the Sf 2 series!!! I bet you didn't know that didn't you.

and wtf are you talking about supers. If sf never came out, you never had games like KOF or GG or Fatal Fury

Cause those people have worked for capcom.

And GOD RUGAL VS GILL is how it should be and NOT Omega Rugal

and it is bullshit about what game came out first. Gill is NO RIPOFF!!

Do you know how many people of SNK are a Rip off. you have no idea.

And yes i play sf 3. more then you think. i even post sometimes in topics when i'm home from a sf/tekken tourney!!

you think you're smart, don't you? You really hate SF!! i have been reading you're post for a while, and i can see only negative post from you!!!

Well SNK IS GAY!! And YOU ARE A GAYLOVER!! 2nd hands game company who rips off capcom with their pathetic graphics.

tell me who they were ripping off with Geese, hm?

Originally posted by looldude
yes check gamefaqs. k now the next step is information about him using seraphic wing in "new generation"

http://www.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/data/563188.html

I see that the release date for KoF 97 is conflicting...
it says the game is released in japanese arcades in july of 97, almost august..

King of Fighters '97, The SNK 07/28/97 JP

however... there is an FAQ made 'before' this date

Foreign Language FAQs
FAQ/Move List (Spanish) 06/30/97 VMartin

so let me ask how the hell its possible for a guide to come out (in spanish no less..) a full month before the game even gets released in japan?

Yeah, few days ago, i tried to do some research on the actual release date for KOF 97 arcade version, but no avail

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
lets take ryukou no ken for example.. came out same time as street fighter 2... (the first one)

you charge your spirit bar to full.. boom.. haoshokouken... theres your SNK super art...it was basically manual charge bar (which yielded a level 1 super, until combined with a low energy bar for an even higher damage super (Lv 2) until 97 I think, where the 'diamonds' came into play

I'm pretty sure 98 was the same deal as 97 (but less quality).. and 99 into the 2k's is where gaymore started taking over

if you noticed, the only two KoF grooves to appear in Cap vs SNK2 are the two that I've just mentioned... they're good.. everything else gaymore added sucked


Your comparing spirit meter to the super art
They are nothing a like, the spirit meter was needed to perform special moves in general , how is that anything like the super art? basically your taking anything with a bar and comparing it with the super art.

-And you wanna talk about copying, like when snk copies multiple signature moves from capcom. like giving robert a sonic boom like projectile and a flash kick.

-And your talking about innovations when tag team, super art and street fighter 2's engine were all ripped off by snk.

Everyone is excited... I like both companies... just one thing. Gill is a cheap bastard.

Thank you.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Everyone is excited... I like both companies... just one thing. Gill is a cheap bastard.

Thank you.


NOW YOU KNOW

Indeed you do.

i see you're an akuma fan... do you like Demon Grab or Demon Wave more?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Your comparing spirit meter to the super art
They are nothing a like, the spirit meter was needed to perform special moves in general , how is that anything like the super art? basically your taking anything with a bar and comparing it with the super art.

-And you wanna talk about copying, like when snk copies multiple signature moves from capcom. like giving robert a sonic boom like projectile and a flash kick.

-And your talking about innovations when tag team, super art and street fighter 2's engine were all ripped off by snk.

erm... its not just for 'special' moves.. its for super moves also, as I've clearly stated

robert doesnt have a sonic boom like projectile.. he never did....
I can see your point about the flash kick, but I think that particular move no longer exists

you cant copywrite a genre... sorry to break that news to you... or else Dragonquest and Final fantasy creators would have long sued eachother

as I've said.. tag team is a spinoff of 3v3.. but I dont think SNK's hardware was able to pull off having multiple movesets on the fly, which is why 'tagging' hadnt been done until 2003 (which if youll notice, has crappy sound / music as a consequence)

describe a super art please... (again I've already mentioned this is more about 'condition' for you than what actually results from this condition)

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
erm... its not just for 'special' moves.. its for super moves also, as I've clearly stated


Erm..no it isn't


Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

robert doesnt have a sonic boom like projectile.. he never did....
I can see your point about the flash kick, but I think that particular move no longer exists


Wonderful, by chance have you played kof 2000 & 2001, since I have it I'm pretty sure I'm right.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

you cant copywrite a genre... sorry to break that news to you... or else Dragonquest and Final fantasy creators would have long sued eachother

Did I make any refrence to capcom owning fighting games?


Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

as I've said.. tag team is a spinoff of 3v3.. but I dont think SNK's hardware was able to pull off having multiple movesets on the fly, which is why 'tagging' hadnt been done until 2003 (which if youll notice, has crappy sound / music as a consequence)

X-men vs street fighter did not come out in 2003 and snk uses 16 bit graphics on purpose. your desperatly trying to make connections. the first tag team was 2VS2, how is that a spin off of 3VS3?


Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

describe a super art please... (again I've already mentioned this is more about 'condition' for you than what actually results from this condition)

I'm not repeating myself, the only thing the super art had in common with the spirit bar was the fact they both had bars. Spirit bar was not a super it was a special.

Here's an faq:




Do you see the word super there?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Erm..no it isn't

I played it.. you havent I'm guessing.. and are telling me its not?..

Its used for both special and super... Haoshokouken is something you learn on the way.. it cannot be done without it.. and it takes up your entire spirit bar to cast.... I dont know about you but I'd call that a super





Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Wonderful, by chance have you played kof 2000 & 2001, since I have it I'm pretty sure I'm right.

well I have 2k2 and 2k3 (bought it for 20 dollars).. and I assure you he does no such fireball in either, and they're more recent



Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Did I make any refrence to capcom owning fighting games?

you said "Street Fighter 2's engine was ripped off by SNK"... as if the fighting game genre could be done different? like I said... that means either dragon quest or final fantasy ripped off eachothers engines as well




Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
X-men vs street fighter did not come out in 2003 and snk uses 16 bit graphics on purpose. your desperatly trying to make connections. the first tag team was 2VS2, how is that a spin off of 3VS3? because prior to KoF, no other fighting game was having more than a 1 on 1 per "fight" .. regular capcom games have simple sprites, which eat less RAM.. you need lots of RAM to have real time tag team battles

desperately?.. I'm telling you its a hardware limitation.. or I'm certain they'd have done tag battles ages ago... they insist (which I dont really like) on using that old technology.. but oh well.. their choice




Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I'm not repeating myself, the only thing the super art had in common with the spirit bar was the fact they both had bars. Spirit bar was not a super it was a special.

Here's an faq:




Do you see the word super there?

see above.. Haoshokouken is a super move... I believe AoF 2 is when they had the super combo..

Originally posted by Kayne Archeron
i see you're an akuma fan... do you like Demon Grab or Demon Wave more? Yea, I find them sexy...

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
I played it.. you havent I'm guessing.. and are telling me its not?..

Its used for both special and super... Haoshokouken is something you learn on the way.. it cannot be done without it.. and it takes up your entire spirit bar to cast.... I dont know about you but I'd call that a super

Actually, I have played it and those are not super moves. they became super moves later on.






Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

well I have 2k2 and 2k3 (bought it for 20 dollars).. and I assure you he does no such fireball in either, and they're more recent

You are aware that snk move list tend to change drastically every year and yes they he had it. play 2K & 2K1 then tell you haven't seen it.




Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

you said "Street Fighter 2's engine was ripped off by SNK"... as if the fighting game genre could be done different? like I said... that means either dragon quest or final fantasy ripped off eachothers engines as well

Dragon quest and final fantasy are made by the same company why would it matter? and snk did rip off street fighter 2 engine.



Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

because prior to KoF, no other fighting game was having more than a 1 on 1 per "fight" .. regular capcom games have simple sprites, which eat less RAM.. you need lots of RAM to have real time tag team battles

desperately?.. I'm telling you its a hardware limitation.. or I'm certain they'd have done tag battles ages ago... they insist (which I dont really like) on using that old technology.. but oh well.. their choice


You do know that street fighter was based of games like final fight, the whole concept came from games like double dragon, which had more than 1 person on the screen so what are you talking about, again explain how 3 character line up is the originator of 2 on 2 tag?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Actually, I have played it and those are not super moves. they became super moves later on.

it was 'super' because it took the entire bar to cast... super is something that does extreme damage.. and Haoshokoken did








Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
You are aware that snk move list tend to change drastically every year and yes they he had it. play 2K & 2K1 then tell you haven't seen it.
ok so you're griping about something that no longer exists?






Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Dragon quest and final fantasy are made by the same company why would it matter? and snk did rip off street fighter 2 engine.
DQ and FF werent always the same company.. so it can apply here

another statement without reasoning for backup




Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
You do know that street fighter was based of games like final fight, the whole concept came from games like double dragon, which had more than 1 person on the screen so what are you talking about, again explain how 3 character line up is the originator of 2 on 2 tag? you do know that those characters had 2 to 3 frames of animation for each move.. and perhaps 3 special moves each, if that right?.. plus double dragon didnt need to worry about graphics

the concept is involving more than 1 person into the battle.. having that in real time takes more ram than I believe SNKs hardware to handle.. capcom uses updated hardware as you can see with their useage of cps3 chip and NAOMI arcade hardware

if you even wanted to try to run mugen, youll notice that it skips on most computers, cuz 2d fighters are RAM eating monsters

we can also attribute it to the style that the developers may have wanted... i.e. allowing real time jump-ins could have been considered "dirty fighting".. /shrug

3 on 3 in real time with SNK's hardware is so not happening lol.. thats what makes marvel vs capcom 2 so great

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
it was 'super' because it took the entire bar to cast... super is something that does extreme damage.. and Haoshokoken did


... everymove took alot of damage, during the early days of fighting games. in street fighter zangiefs plie driver could kill you in 2 and a half tries. again their were no supers in art of fighting,



Haoshoken was considered a special only later did it become a super.

And the director of street fighter 1 worked on the AOF seies.








Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

ok so you're griping about something that no longer exists?

That's just one example out of many.






Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

DQ and FF werent always the same company.. so it can apply here

another statement without reasoning for backup


No, it can't apply here, yes snk had an original concept. it doesn't change the fact they ripped off street fighters 2 game play and signature moves I might add. hell they even ripped off characters: Micheal Max,Ryo,and who can forget brocken

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BrockenWorldHeroes.jpg



Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

you do know that those characters had 2 to 3 frames of animation for each move.. and perhaps 3 special moves each, if that right?.. plus double dragon didnt need to worry about graphics

And how does that change the fact fighting games were based off beat'em ups?



Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

the concept is involving more than 1 person into the battle.. having that in real time takes more ram than I believe SNKs hardware to handle.. capcom uses updated hardware as you can see with their useage of cps3 chip and NAOMI arcade hardware

if you even wanted to try to run mugen, youll notice that it skips on most computers, cuz 2d fighters are RAM eating monsters

we can also attribute it to the style that the developers may have wanted... i.e. allowing real time jump-ins could have been considered "dirty fighting".. /shrug

Sigh, and does that change the fact that 3 on 3 line up is not the jump in? The first tag team started with 2 vs 2. how is that anything like 3 on 3 line up. and snk has an advance board. they are currently running on the atomis wave and before that mark of garou ran on the "Neo Geo" board( it was spectacular) Snk purposely uses 16 bit so they can keep that classic look, it doesn't mean they can't do 3 on 3 especially considering many people left capcom to work on snk.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

3 on 3 in real time with SNK's hardware is so not happening lol.. thats what makes marvel vs capcom 2 so great

It already did, 2K3 has tag and so does KOF 11.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
... everymove took alot of damage, during the early days of fighting games. in street fighter zangiefs plie driver could kill you in 2 and a half tries. again their were no supers in art of fighting,

Haoshoken was considered a special only later did it become a super.

And the director of street fighter 1 worked on the AOF seies.



Haosho did far more damage than any other move robert or ryo had at the time... basically if you hit the enemy with it, it was a damn-near guaranteed win

plus you had to learn it as part of the story, reinforcing the fact that it was more revered than any of the moves you had prior to that event.. which makes it a super move

ok.. so rather than blame SNK for 'copying' street fighters gameplay... blame the retarded street fighter employee for not twisting things up a bit, perhaps?


Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
That's just one example out of many. I see.. and you take Yuri as an example of good character design?

your time period of logged KoF crimes happened during the current reign of 'snk-gaymore'.. where all originality has been lost.. and falcoon is the art director


Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
No, it can't apply here, yes snk had an original concept. it doesn't change the fact they ripped off street fighters 2 game play and signature moves I might add. hell they even ripped off characters: Micheal Max,Ryo,and who can forget brocken

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BrockenWorldHeroes.jpg

and how many world heroes games were there? like 3 or 4? lol... someone must have liked them, despite the conceptual shortcomings..

anyways.. the characters that deserved fame from that series got it.. such as hanzou and fuuma





Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
And how does that change the fact fighting games were based off beat'em ups?

I didnt say they werent.. but my point is that beatemups are much simpler in design than their pure-fighter counterparts..

also less frames = more room to use for other aspects of the game





Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Snk purposely uses 16 bit so they can keep that classic look, it doesn't mean they can't do 3 on 3 especially considering many people left capcom to work on snk.
It already did, 2K3 has tag and so does KOF 11.

Yes, garou was spectacular.. but you cant expect animation like that AND 3 on 3.. when you tap one area heavily , others suffer

2k3 on Neo Geo hardware.. has disgusting visuals.. poor backgrounds.. and crappy music... the pluses are 3v3 real time (though somehow once I switch out my leader I cant get his ass back.. can only snag the two subs)... and the voices, and even faster paced gameplay... so obviously the tradeoffs are good.. but the aspects that suffer are more than noticeable.. plus falcoon jumped on board with the art... ugh.. thats another downside! die ash crimson~

http://www.pcgames.com.cn/tvgames/topic/fighter/news/0508/pic/08.jpg

horrible~.. and its supposed to be a boy... -_-.. this is basically SNK's current state...

I dont know the state of KoF 11.. but something running on atomiswave 'better' have good everything, or thats just a damn waste


also.. if people from capcom gave away their secret 'street fighter gameplay formula' in the past... why havent they coughed up the way to do 3v3 the right way? (such as double middle / double heavy / double light calling out a specific member each)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jua2rno7CRg I want NGBC so badly

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
Haosho did far more damage than any other move robert or ryo had at the time... basically if you hit the enemy with it, it was a damn-near guaranteed win

plus you had to learn it as part of the story, reinforcing the fact that it was more revered than any of the moves you had prior to that event.. which makes it a super move


No,it's a special move, again there were no supers in AOF you can try to redefine it but so far you haven't offered anything but an opinion. Spirit bar regulated specials during AOF, Hoashoken was a special in AOF.


Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

ok.. so rather than blame SNK for 'copying' street fighters gameplay... blame the retarded street fighter employee for not twisting things up a bit, perhaps?

And it would be his fault because?

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

I see.. and you take Yuri as an example of good character design?

your time period of logged KoF crimes happened during the current reign of 'snk-gaymore'.. where all originality has been lost.. and falcoon is the art director

No, it happened through out snk history, fatal fury copied street fighters engine and AOF copied ken and ryu's style to the bone. originally ken and ryu knew kyokushin karate and magically ryo and robert know kyokugen and brocken is the worst. I like snk but denying they copied from capcom is like denying capcom copied character designs from "jojo bizzare adventure"



Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

and how many world heroes games were there? like 3 or 4? lol... someone must have liked them, despite the conceptual shortcomings..

anyways.. the characters that deserved fame from that series got it.. such as hanzou and fuuma

World heroes bacme popular during 3 & 4, I personally liked the game. but it doesn't change the fact about brocken.






Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

I didnt say they werent.. but my point is that beatemups are much simpler in design than their pure-fighter counterparts..

also less frames = more room to use for other aspects of the game

And that doesn't change the fact 2 on 2 tag had a better chance of originating from coop beat'em ups.







Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

Yes, garou was spectacular.. but you cant expect animation like that AND 3 on 3.. when you tap one area heavily , others suffer

2k3 on Neo Geo hardware.. has disgusting visuals.. poor backgrounds.. and crappy music... the pluses are 3v3 real time (though somehow once I switch out my leader I cant get his ass back.. can only snag the two subs)... and the voices, and even faster paced gameplay... so obviously the tradeoffs are good.. but the aspects that suffer are more than noticeable.. plus falcoon jumped on board with the art... ugh.. thats another downside! die ash crimson~

http://www.pcgames.com.cn/tvgames/topic/fighter/news/0508/pic/08.jpg

horrible~.. and its supposed to be a boy... -_-.. this is basically SNK's current state...

I dont know the state of KoF 11.. but something running on atomiswave 'better' have good everything, or thats just a damn waste


also.. if people from capcom gave away their secret 'street fighter gameplay formula' in the past... why havent they coughed up the way to do 3v3 the right way? (such as double middle / double heavy / double light calling out a specific member each)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jua2rno7CRg I want NGBC so badly

Because capcom doesn't care about it's fans as opposed to snk, capcom only care about making money. ash crimson is not that bad and capcoms tag is were the striker system snk uses developed from.

ookay Emperor Ashtar

you tell him

and Satsujin about SNK's employee that worked under Capcom making sf2 series. you want proof.

it is in a intervieuw about Kof Maximum Impact

Here some other info about SNK!!!

Directed by Takashi Nishiyama (credited as "Piston Takashi", he would later leave Capcom for SNK and developed most of their fighting game series (including Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting). A strong similarity is evident between Street Fighter and these early SNK fighting games (e.g., Ryu as compared to Ryo Sakazaki from Art of Fighting, Mike as compared to Michael Max from Fatal Fury and Mickey Rogers from Art of Fighting)

Shall i give you also a list with rip offs from capcom?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
ash crimson is not that bad Ash Crimson is f**king horrible. SNK & Capcom are both good companies. They both rip each other off @ times. SNK did rip Capcom off 1st though. It is weird that SaT can call one of Gill's moves a ripoff, but he avoids saying the same about Ryo ripping off Ken & Ryu to the fullest. Still, both good companies w/some damn good characters. Anyway, O. Rugal wins by kicking Gill in the face really hard during resurrection."

Originally posted by brainchild81
Ash Crimson is f**king horrible. SNK & Capcom are both good companies. They both rip each other off @ times. SNK did rip Capcom off 1st though. It is weird that SaT can call one of Gill's moves a ripoff, but he avoids saying the same about Ryo ripping off Ken & Ryu to the fullest. Still, both good companies w/some damn good characters. Anyway, O. Rugal wins by kicking Gill in the face really hard during resurrection."

Ash rocks.

Gameplay

Art of Fighting was the first fighting game with a super bar, and introduced the spirit gauge and desperation move (the equivalent of super moves, often used with SNK fighting games) into the fighting game vernacular. A spirit gauge is a manually charged super combo gauge where all special moves will utilize and drain, with greater amounts of power dealing greater amounts of damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_of_Fighting

ah.. more shitting on art of fighting... at least there was no way you could 'fireball spam' as a reliable strategy

and yes, the programmer is partially to blame because he didnt want to offer anything different to the development table than what he had been previously familiar with (SF2)

roberts always been my fave, so call ryo whatever you feel like... IMO art of fighting did it better

Go ahead and list remy.. I bet SNK has at least created 20 different fighting games just for the sake of seeing which one took off... as a company, you cant afford to pour your money into one idea and have it bomb.. so basically it was fighting game creation spam, until SNK realised that S.Showdown , Art of Fighting, Fatal Fury, KoF, and World Heroes were some of its top fighting franchises (I think buriki-one, and Last Blade were up there too)

so remy, I pose another idea to you... weigh how many SNK copied vs how many original characters SNK posesses

P.S. Keep in mind 'none' of SNK's characters are palette swaps

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
Gameplay

Art of Fighting was the first fighting game with a super bar, and introduced the spirit gauge and desperation move (the equivalent of super moves, often used with SNK fighting games) into the fighting game vernacular. A spirit gauge is a manually charged super combo gauge where all special moves will utilize and drain, with greater amounts of power dealing greater amounts of damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_of_Fighting

wikipedia can be written by anyone, Again art of fighting does not have supers. all there moves were specials.


Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

ah.. more shitting on art of fighting... at least there was no way you could 'fireball spam' as a reliable strategy

and yes, the programmer is partially to blame because he didnt want to offer anything different to the development table than what he had been previously familiar with (SF2)

roberts always been my fave, so call ryo whatever you feel like... IMO art of fighting did it better

AOF sucked and just because your a scrub at SF2 doesn't mean you know what our talking about, using projectiles is only one strategy.


Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

Go ahead and list remy.. I bet SNK has at least created 20 different fighting games just for the sake of seeing which one took off... as a company, you cant afford to pour your money into one idea and have it bomb.. so basically it was fighting game creation spam, until SNK realised that S.Showdown , Art of Fighting, Fatal Fury, KoF, and World Heroes were some of its top fighting franchises (I think buriki-one, and Last Blade were up there too)

All of them are just SF ripoffs, capcom has created WAY more originally fighting games I.E Vampior Savior, snk could never come up with something like that. the original game snk has developed is samurai showdown.


Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

so remy, I pose another idea to you... weigh how many SNK copied vs how many original characters SNK posesses

P.S. Keep in mind 'none' of SNK's characters are palette swaps

Your so desperate to prove snk is orginally it's sad, how many flame users does snk have or fake ryu and kens and don't even start with pallet swaps

Vice/Mature
Ralph/clark
kyo/Shingo
Jae hoon/Dong Hwan

Are pallet swaps.

please snk isn't aht good, AOF1 and FF! sucked hard because they didn't implement the SF2 engine (all the famous snk titles use the SF2 engine)

Originally posted by brainchild81
Ash Crimson is f**king horrible. SNK & Capcom are both good companies. They both rip each other off @ times. SNK did rip Capcom off 1st though. It is weird that SaT can call one of Gill's moves a ripoff, but he avoids saying the same about Ryo ripping off Ken & Ryu to the fullest. Still, both good companies w/some damn good characters. Anyway, O. Rugal wins by kicking Gill in the face really hard during resurrection."

i agree, they're both good, and they both pick little things from eachother, as most companies do

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
AOF sucked and just because your a scrub at SF2 doesn't mean you know what our talking about, using projectiles is only one strategy.



and don't even start with pallet swaps

Vice/Mature
Ralph/clark
kyo/Shingo
Jae hoon/Dong Hwan

Are pallet swaps.

poking at my fighting game knowledge to make it seem like you have some sort of authority is really discrediting your ability to make a good argument... such a shame

and FYI.. none of the players you listed are pallete swaps... they all have different animation and stances / taunts... you obviously dont know what a pallet swap is and you're shitting on my ability to play fighting games?.. plz... get real, kthx

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
poking at my fighting game knowledge to make it seem like you have some sort of authority is really discrediting your ability to make a good argument... such a shame


coming from someone who insist projectile spamming is a major strategy in SF2, and declares BS like 3 on 3 line up is where tag moves originate from. you don't know what your talking about.



Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
and FYI.. none of the players you listed are pallete swaps... they all have different animation and stances / taunts... you obviously dont know what a pallet swap is and you're shitting on my ability to play fighting games?.. plz... get real, kthx

Um yes they are pallet swaps, having different taunts doesn't change that

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
coming from someone who insist projectile spamming is a major strategy in SF2, and declares BS like 3 on 3 line up is where tag moves originate from. you don't know what your talking aboutt.





Um yes they are pallet swaps, having different taunts doesn't change that

Apparently Daigo finds it to be a major strategy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnG-OBPYa2I

k name some games that have complexity and tag team before KoF happened

Do read... you poor thing.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palette_swap

see SNK mentioned in there?... eh?... what was that?..... didnt think so..

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
Apparently Daigo finds it to be a major strategy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnG-OBPYa2I

k name some games that have complexity and tag team before KoF happened

Do read... you poor thing.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palette_swap

see SNK mentioned in there?... eh?... what was that?..... didnt think so..

-Since when is wikipedia the source for all fighting game info
This shows your lack of sense.


-Projectiles aren't a major strategy because E. hoinda,balrog and blanka are top tier

-What do you mean complexity, all fighting games are complex unless your insisting kof is complex with it's Dial-A-combo.

o.O going to a really good source of info isn't a lack of sense...

and those fighters may be very powerful, but they are still beaten by Ken, Ryu, and Akuma, whose main moves are pretty much projectiles

Originally posted by Kayne Archeron
o.O going to a really good source of info isn't a lack of sense...

and those fighters may be very powerful, but they are still beaten by Ken, Ryu, and Akuma, whose main moves are pretty much projectiles

he just gave me a video showing balrog beating sagats arse?

I never said wikipedia is bad, but using it as the authority on fighting games is senseless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wibHFDyTnRg&search=remy%20charge%20

Here's remy spamming projectiles and he's nowhere near top tier.

that's actual people playing them though, not the characters themselves

Originally posted by Kayne Archeron
that's actual people playing them though, not the characters themselves

who else would be playing them, were talking gameplay wise.

in that case, i'd still pick sagat over balrog, even with the video

Originally posted by Kayne Archeron
in that case, i'd still pick sagat over balrog, even with the video

Me too, Sagat is my favorite SF2 character, he can't mess with balrog or zangief.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
-Since when is wikipedia the source for all fighting game info
This shows your lack of sense.


-Projectiles aren't a major strategy because E. hoinda,balrog and blanka are top tier

-What do you mean complexity, all fighting games are complex unless your insisting kof is complex with it's Dial-A-combo.

wikipedia mostly offers common sense.. now.. in order for this to be viewed as "senseless".. one must first have sense ... seeing how you didnt have the sense to know what a palette swap was.. I revealed it to you with the sense that is wikipedia

top tier is a term that describes "easiest to win with"... not characters that have been used to win tournaments

ok.. so what of all fighting games then?
lol.. dial-a-combo... when all of capcoms combos are rife with jab spams and super-whoring

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
wikipedia mostly offers common sense.. now.. in order for this to be viewed as "senseless".. one must first have sense ... seeing how you didnt have the sense to know what a palette swap was.. I revealed it to you with the sense that is wikipedia

I know what a palete swap is, and snk suffers from it too. I gave you several examples. shingo pretty much uses the exact same animations as kyosame with vice and mature if your so blid you can't see that. then I can't help you, wikipedia is not the fighting game authority.


Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

top tier is a term that describes "easiest to win with"... not characters that have been used to win tournaments


.... doh you imply that projectile spamming is a major strategy in SF2 then proceed to show me a video of balrog (Who is top tie) destroying that strategy

Top tier also describes characters with "cheap strategy", if projectile spamming was such a cheap strategy,than all the projectile users especially sagat would be top tier.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

ok.. so what of all fighting games then?
lol.. dial-a-combo... when all of capcoms combos are rife with jab spams and super-whoring

Jab spams, do you know what their for and I know your not talking about whoring. the super whoring snk is FAAAR worst.

Kof in a nutshell

Dial-A-Combo- cancel into special into super combo.

Hell I've seen tag combo's into supers, it's ridiculous.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=vQz585cGrpk&search=kof%202003

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I know what a palete swap is, and snk suffers from it too. I gave you several examples. shingo pretty much uses the exact same animations as kyosame with vice and mature if your so blid you can't see that. then I can't help you, wikipedia is not the fighting game authority.





.... doh you imply that projectile spamming is a major strategy in SF2 then proceed to show me a video of balrog (Who is top tie) destroying that strategy

Top tier also describes characters with "cheap strategy", if projectile spamming was such a cheap strategy,than all the projectile users especially sagat would be top tier.



Jab spams, do you know what their for and I know your not talking about whoring. the super whoring snk is FAAAR worst.

Kof in a nutshell

Dial-A-Combo- cancel into special into super combo.

Hell I've seen tag combo's into supers, it's ridiculous.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=vQz585cGrpk&search=kof%202003

You dont because thats not a palette swap

I showed you a video of projectile whoring... just because it doesnt work on EVERYONE doesnt mean its not a prime strategy..

lol.. you wanna talk about tag super whoring?.. watch any Marvel vs Capcom 2 video.. uppercut into the air.. jab jab jab jab special > super > jab jab jab > call out striker > jab jab jab > tag> super > jab jab jab > tagteam super....KO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XFAsiteAFU

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
You dont because thats not a palette swap

I showed you a video of projectile whoring... just because it doesnt work on EVERYONE doesnt mean its not a prime strategy..

Are you incapable of common sense? you showed me a video of balrog destroying that strategy with ease and I just told you that he's top tier. now how is that prime strategy of street fighter 2 when it's not even top tier?


Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

lol.. you wanna talk about tag super whoring?.. watch any Marvel vs Capcom 2 video.. uppercut into the air.. jab jab jab jab special > super > jab jab jab > call out striker > jab jab jab > tag> super > jab jab jab > tagteam super....KO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XFAsiteAFU


I knew you would go there, MVC2 is crap so what?

Ironically snk stole the tag system from capcoms versus series

And about the palete swap, you are aware that ken,ryu,and gouki are head swaps not palete swaps just like ralph/clark,kim jae hoon/kim don hwan,/Vice/mature and shingo/kyo. they have pretty much the exact same animations.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Are you incapable of common sense? you showed me a video of balrog destroying that strategy with ease and I just told you that he's top tier. now how is that prime strategy of street fighter 2 when it's not even top tier?





I knew you would go there, MVC2 is crap so what?

Ironically snk stole the tag system from capcoms versus series

And about the palete swap, you are aware that ken,ryu,and gouki are head swaps not palete swaps just like ralph/clark,kim jae hoon/kim don hwan,/Vice/mature and shingo/kyo. they have pretty much the exact same animations.

I showed you a video showcasing the fireball crap... then you base your entire argument on 1 match that happened during the entire video.. so how solid is your point again?.. nuff said...

Ironically they left out the jab combos that parade around as skillful.. for the better IMO

wow.. change gi from white to red... paint some blonde hair on ryu and bam.. got ken.. rinse and repeat... the same cannot be done for the KoF's you've listed.. and they dont have the same animations.. its more than obvious you're selectively blind in an attempt to make yourself look correct.. pity tha foo'~

oh and fer the record... pretty much does not equal the exact same
pretty much = / = the exact same

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
I showed you a video showcasing the fireball crap... then you base your entire argument on 1 match that happened during the entire video.. so how solid is your point again?.. nuff said...

I base my argument oon the knowledge of the game and witnessing the amount of invincible frames that make throwing projectiles useless;trying spamming projectiles against a good zangief player. and again, projectile spamming is not top tier at all so how is it a prime strategy, nuff said.


Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

Ironically they left out the jab combos that parade around as skillful.. for the better IMO

wow.. change gi from white to red... paint some blonde hair on ryu and bam.. got ken.. rinse and repeat... the same cannot be done for the KoF's you've listed.. and they dont have the same animations.. its more than obvious you're selectively blind in an attempt to make yourself look correct.. pity tha foo'~

Wow, do you realise that jae hwon and don hwan have pretty much the same move set, the same apply's for kyo/shingo, and vice and mature?
anyone who plays kof could see that, I don't even wanna go to samurai showdown and mention hanzo/Ganford, snk head swaps way more than capcom.

You can only name a few head swaps from one fighting game series (Street fighter) and proceed to say capcom head swaps. as opposed to snk with kof, samurai showdown, etc. try naming other games besides street fighter.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I base my argument oon the knowledge of the game and witnessing the amount of invincible frames that make throwing projectiles useless;trying spamming projectiles against a good zangief player. and again, projectile spamming is not top tier at all so how is it a prime strategy, nuff said.




Wow, do you realise that jae hwon and don hwan have pretty much the same move set, the same apply's for kyo/shingo, and vice and mature?
anyone who plays kof could see that, I don't even wanna go to samurai showdown and mention hanzo/Ganford, snk head swaps way more than capcom.

You can only name a few head swaps from one fighting game series (Street fighter) and proceed to say capcom head swaps. as opposed to snk with kof, samurai showdown, etc. try naming other games besides street fighter.

Obviously Daigo finds it a good enough strategy to use.. and you're no daigo.. nuff said..

no they dont.. now you're making up crap.. anyone who's played with these characters would tell you differently

yeah.. galford leans forward.. with no mask.. and has totally different animations... while hanzo leans backwards with a mask, and totally different animations of his own.. way to support your headswap theory!

street fighter is all capcom can do.. isnt that obvious?... marvel vs street fighter.. x men vs street fighter.. marvel vs capcom... capcom vs snk.. they dont have anything else thats good

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
Obviously Daigo finds it a good enough strategy to use.. and you're no daigo.. nuff said..

Neither are you

So because daigo picks his favorite character and uses A strategy it's top tier, that pretty much proves you don't know what your talking about.


Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

no they dont.. now you're making up crap.. anyone who's played with these characters would tell you differently


Let's see here, I've played most of the kof's and own a couple so yeah I can speak for them Ralf and Clark were pretty much identical outside of maybe two moves in KOF 94 (I their vulcan punches and supers were the only things separating them... oh, and their jumping hk).



Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

yeah.. galford leans forward.. with no mask.. and has totally different animations... while hanzo leans backwards with a mask, and totally different animations of his own.. way to support your headswap theory!

And shawn moves faster in his stances and has a different dragon punch and tornado kick, by your logic he's not a shoto head swap..wait he is.



Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

street fighter is all capcom can do.. isnt that obvious?... marvel vs street fighter.. x men vs street fighter.. marvel vs capcom... capcom vs snk.. they dont have anything else thats good

Vampire savior, project justice, muscle bomber, saturday night slam masters...yeah they can't do better, make sure you know what your talking about before looking like an idiot.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Neither are you

So because daigo picks his favorite character and uses A strategy it's top tier, that pretty much proves you don't know what your talking about. He wins tournaments right?.. you dont?.... and I dont know what I'm talking about?





Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Let's see here, I've played most of the kof's and own a couple so yeah I can speak for them Ralf and Clark were pretty much identical outside of maybe two moves in KOF 94 (I their vulcan punches and supers were the only things separating them... oh, and their jumping hk).

yeah because most = all....
I noticed the only nonsense you could even come close to relating this with is KoF 94.. and how old is that?





Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
And shawn moves faster in his stances and has a different dragon punch and tornado kick, by your logic he's not a shoto head swap..wait he is. his idle animation is a headswap... not the rest of his character... where in SNK's case.. all the characters you mentioned have neither the features of a headswap OR a palette swap... you may need glasses soon





Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Vampire savior, project justice, muscle bomber, saturday night slam masters...yeah they can't do better, make sure you know what your talking about before looking like an idiot.

LOL saturday night slam masters... what crap... they havent done that or a rival schools game in god knows how long and you're bringing them up?.. pathetic....and wheres a new darkstalkers?.. oh wait there isnt one! of course, I must be an idiot... seeing how SNK updates their franchises and capcom's most recent entry is 3rd strike / Cap vs SNK 2.. both which involve street fighter... and oh yes.. lets not forget another megaman aniversary pack.. we cant get enough of those

I think Fuuma and Hanzo from World Heroes were swaps if nobody's mentioned them yet. Could be wrong though. SaT, Robert is pretty cool & SNK should've went forward w/him instead of lame @ss Ryo. I agree w/you on that.Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Ash rocks. If by "rock" you mean wreak of gayness, then yes. He "rocks" more than any character ever

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
He wins tournaments right?.. you dont?.... and I dont know what I'm talking about?

Yes, you don't know what your talking about. your trying to say projectile spamming is a prime strategy, despite the fact virtually know one with projectiles is top tier. If it were such a powerful strategy it would be top tier; refering to daigo doesn't mean the strategy is top tier, it just mens daigo is good. again, you don't know what you're talking about.






Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

yeah because most = all....
I noticed the only nonsense you could even come close to relating this with is KoF 94.. and how old is that?

Who cares how old 94 is, you said snk doesn't do head or palette swaps, you were wrong.




Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

his idle animation is a headswap... not the rest of his character... where in SNK's case.. all the characters you mentioned have neither the features of a headswap OR a palette swap... you may need glasses soon

Oh you mean ralph and clark which I just proved, vice and mature is freaking obvious so is shingo and kyo. instead of whining "it's not it's not"
Why not prove I'm wrong.






Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

LOL saturday night slam masters... what crap... they havent done that or a rival schools game in god knows how long and you're bringing them up?.. pathetic....and wheres a new darkstalkers?.. oh wait there isnt one! of course, I must be an idiot... seeing how SNK updates their franchises and capcom's most recent entry is 3rd strike / Cap vs SNK 2.. both which involve street fighter... and oh yes.. lets not forget another megaman aniversary pack.. we cant get enough of those

Man your lame, you said capcom only has street fighter, then change subject to try to show that they don't make any fighting games. I hate to break it yo you but 2d fighting games don't sell at all, this isn't the 90's and the only snk title that's retained popularity is Samurai Showdown 2, unlike capcom, snk titles aren't as popular.

Street Fighter 2 is considered the greatest fighting game ever by many and so is Third Strike. all of snk's popular titles have utilized the SF2 engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWOPyq2YmQo&mode=related& amp;search=%20super%20street%20fighter%202%20turbo
fireball spamming my ass.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Yes, you don't know what your talking about. your trying to say projectile spamming is a prime strategy, despite the fact virtually know one with projectiles is top tier. If it were such a powerful strategy it would be top tier; refering to daigo doesn't mean the strategy is top tier, it just mens daigo is good. again, you don't know what you're talking about.

If daigo.. a tournament winner.. uses fireball spam.. that translates to it being a great strategy

whatever helps you sleep at night








Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Who cares how old 94 is, you said snk doesn't do head or palette swaps, you were wrong. thats right they dont... I've said "the closest you could come up with is 94" meaning they dont ...learn 2 read omgz... go check their sprite sheets.. you're the one thats incorrect









Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Man your lame, you said capcom only has street fighter, then change subject to try to show that they don't make any fighting games. I hate to break it yo you but 2d fighting games don't sell at all, this isn't the 90's and the only snk title that's retained popularity is Samurai Showdown 2, unlike capcom, snk titles aren't as popular.

Street Fighter 2 is considered the greatest fighting game ever by many and so is Third Strike. all of snk's popular titles have utilized the SF2 engine.

did I bring up any non-fighters?.. then why should you?.. gimme a break

SF2 aint that great... 3rd strike yes... but Garou is just as good

blame the SF programmer for that

oh and that video shows SSF2Turbo balrog vs SF2 sagat.. DURRRR I wonder who'll win??? /sarcasm

anyways... if you'd enjoy discussing these two companies more.. make a Capcom vs Snk thread or something.. at least more people would join the foray.. this is getting boring

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
If daigo.. a tournament winner.. uses fireball spam.. that translates to it being a great strategy

whatever helps you sleep at night

Right, because some scrub says, If daigo picked M.bison then you would think he's the best character







Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

thats right they dont... I've said "the closest you could come up with is 94" meaning they dont ...learn 2 read omgz... go check their sprite sheets.. you're the one thats incorrect

First you said they don't at all, when I prove you wrong you say only 94, I'm not gonna even bother anymore since you haven't brought any proof what so ever.










Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

did I bring up any non-fighters?.. then why should you?.. gimme a break

SF2 aint that great... 3rd strike yes... but Garou is just as good

blame the SF programmer for that



Yeah, since garou stole SF3 engine, blame SF employee's who haven't worked for capcom since the late 80's and muscle bomber is a fighting game so is saturday night slam masters.


Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

oh and that video shows SSF2Turbo balrog vs SF2 sagat.. DURRRR I wonder who'll win??? /sarcasm

It depends the skill of the player, balrog has the advantage but by your logic he doesn't because of projectiles despite having, so many invincible frames.



Originally posted by SaTsuJiN

anyways... if you'd enjoy discussing these two companies more.. make a Capcom vs Snk thread or something.. at least more people would join the foray.. this is getting boring

It's boring becuase you haven't brought any points, I'm not making Capcom vs Snk thread because I didn't claim they copied ( even thoguh they did) in the first place.

Babies.

http://www.highervoltage.net/mb/archive/index.php/t-2675.html

very interesting thread from another forum they insist that capcom and snk are tid for tad in terms of copying.. and that its the fault of the street fighter programmer which started them both down this 'dark path'... a very good read IMO

and prime... calling people names doesnt make you look better...seriously... you either contribute to shift the argument , or interject a neutral opinion.. at least thats the 'tactful' thing to do

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
http://www.highervoltage.net/mb/archive/index.php/t-2675.html

very interesting thread from another forum they insist that capcom and snk are tid for tad in terms of copying.. and that its the fault of the street fighter programmer which started them both down this 'dark path'... a very good read IMO

and prime... calling people names doesnt make you look better...seriously... you either contribute to shift the argument , or interject a neutral opinion.. at least thats the 'tactful' thing to do



You keep bringing up this street fighter employee. the irony is AOF 1 and FF1 did not use street fighter 2's engine;they sucked. it's when snk started copying capcom their sales went up. and this street fighter employee hasn't worked for capcomclose to 15 years, yet you still refer to him as "Street Fighter Employee" an a sad attempt to pin capcom. this employee quite snk after kof 94, snk copied way after that,as I showed you.

Euhm SNK STARTED it and capcom continued with it to get them back

But SNK STILL has the most rip offs

Does any of this really matter?

Ok, I'll admit, Capcom released the masterpeice that was Street Fighter 2, the game that kickstarted the fighting game Genre... Of this there can never be a dispute. Every 2d fighting game since has used the same basic principals set about by SF1 and 2

Now, of course there where some plagarism going on, AOF's Ryo Sakazaki for example, and the basic fighting game engine of side scrolling. Capcom did the same with the Supermoves engine, reguardless of what TYPE of superbar it is, the principal remained the same, use energy to perform more damaging attacks.

Character plaguarism is rife with both companies, the "Guy in the karate uniform" being the most prime examples of this, the Brocken ripping off Bison thing and heaps of others.

But, in all of this, does it really matter now? Both companies have produced successful fighting games, with great, well thought out characters. If anyone where to ask me to choose bitween the two, i would say thats catagorically impossible, because I like both games, besides, what would Ido when the next CvS game came out

And after my little rant, I think it's just about time we got back on topic before Lana decides to close the thread...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Does any of this really matter?

Ok, I'll admit, Capcom released the masterpeice that was Street Fighter 2, the game that kickstarted the fighting game Genre... Of this there can never be a dispute. Every 2d fighting game since has used the same basic principals set about by SF1 and 2

Now, of course there where some plagarism going on, AOF's Ryo Sakazaki for example, and the basic fighting game engine of side scrolling. Capcom did the same with the Supermoves engine, reguardless of what TYPE of superbar it is, the principal remained the same, use energy to perform more damaging attacks.

Character plaguarism is rife with both companies, the "Guy in the karate uniform" being the most prime examples of this, the Brocken ripping off Bison thing and heaps of others.

But, in all of this, does it really matter now? Both companies have produced successful fighting games, with great, well thought out characters. If anyone where to ask me to choose bitween the two, i would say thats catagorically impossible, because I like both games, besides, what would Ido when the next CvS game came out

And after my little rant, I think it's just about time we got back on topic before Lana decides to close the thread...



As I've said before... (and I'm assuming this 'isnt' a gameplay battle) Gill can spam seraphic wing and force rugal to block to death..

without battle rules there really isnt much to go by

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Does any of this really matter?

Ok, I'll admit, Capcom released the masterpeice that was Street Fighter 2, the game that kickstarted the fighting game Genre... Of this there can never be a dispute. Every 2d fighting game since has used the same basic principals set about by SF1 and 2

Now, of course there where some plagarism going on, AOF's Ryo Sakazaki for example, and the basic fighting game engine of side scrolling. Capcom did the same with the Supermoves engine, reguardless of what TYPE of superbar it is, the principal remained the same, use energy to perform more damaging attacks.

Character plaguarism is rife with both companies, the "Guy in the karate uniform" being the most prime examples of this, the Brocken ripping off Bison thing and heaps of others.

But, in all of this, does it really matter now? Both companies have produced successful fighting games, with great, well thought out characters. If anyone where to ask me to choose bitween the two, i would say thats catagorically impossible, because I like both games, besides, what would Ido when the next CvS game came out

And after my little rant, I think it's just about time we got back on topic before Lana decides to close the thread...

And the priciple for the spirit bar is nothing like the super bar, I've been saying that forever. the super move as we know it orginated from capcom which snk uses. I know they both make good games I wasn't trying to compare the two. satsujin is just posting nonsense, and I feel obligated to correct him.

the hell are you talking about ash?... there is no And...

Dark just said

Capcom did the same with the Supermoves engine, reguardless of what TYPE of superbar it is, the principal remained the same, use energy to perform more damaging attacks.

which is exactly what I've been saying to you this whole time.. I dont get how you can correct something you obviously werent following along with... so feel obligated to read what you think you're correcting, before you "correct" it... k thx.. and he's absolutely right about getting on topic.. so can we move this along?

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
the hell are you talking about ash?... there is no And...

Dark just said

Capcom did the same with the Supermoves engine, reguardless of what TYPE of superbar it is, the principal remained the same, use energy to perform more damaging attacks.

which is exactly what I've been saying to you this whole time.. I dont get how you can correct something you obviously werent following along with... so feel obligated to read what you think you're correcting, before you "correct" it... k thx.. and he's absolutely right about getting on topic.. so can we move this along?

What principle, WTF does the spirit bar have to do with supers?
There were no "SUPERS" in AOF. all the spirit meter controlled was special moves. Because they both have a bar there's a connection for you, super bar had nothing to do with specials what so ever. yet, you insist the spirit bar is the archetype for the super?

Because they both have bars, by your logic GTA copied off Gran turismo,because they both have cars.

The Spirit Bar also controls the use of SDMs, SNK's variants of the super moves.

For example; Haoshikokens can only be done when the Spirit Meter is completely filled, same with the Ryoku Ranbu. Both are recognisable DMs and SDMs of Ryo Sakazaki in every other fighting game he's been in.

Are you now telling me that these moves arn't supermoves because the Spirit System works only slightly differently than Capcoms Superbar System?

Sorry, I need something more... Even Capcom sometimes use a portion their Superbars for Special move executions (Most notably in the EX attacks of Street Fighter 3 2nd Impact and 3rd Strike)

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
The Spirit Bar also controls the use of SDMs, SNK's variants of the super moves.

For example; Haoshikokens can only be done when the Spirit Meter is completely filled, same with the Ryoku Ranbu. Both are recognisable DMs and SDMs of Ryo Sakazaki in every other fighting game he's been in.

Are you now telling me that these moves arn't supermoves because the Spirit System works only slightly differently than Capcoms Superbar System?

Sorry, I need something more... Even Capcom sometimes use a portion their Superbars for Special move executions (Most notably in the EX attacks of Street Fighter 3 2nd Impact and 3rd Strike)


Sigh, Hoa sho ken was not a supermove, it was a special move.
Again, AOF never had any SUPERS the spirit bar regulated specials. now if your arguing that snk was the first ot create "Bar" regulated attacks then okay your right, but if your saying deathmoves and the spirit bar = supers then no. SF2 was the first game to make a distiction between special's and supers. AOF just gave a bar that regulated specials.

I think "Hoa sho ken" was a supermove because you needed to have your bar full just to pull it off. Can't really remember back that far perfectly though. Anyway, this guy from that link SaT posted pretty much had it right.

Beil8th August 2002, 05:19 PM
Let's stop this "ripoff" debate now or just start another thread for it

Originally posted by brainchild81
I think "Hoa sho ken" was a supermove because you needed to have your bar full just to pull it off. Can't really remember back that far perfectly though. Anyway, this guy from that link SaT posted pretty much had it right.

Beil8th August 2002, 05:19 PM
Let's stop this "ripoff" debate now or just start another thread for it

I'm not starting another thread to debate this crap, hoa sho ken was never ever called a super art until SSF2 turbo came out. It was always called a special, but because SSF2 turbo has a bar, hao sho ken becomes a super. show me any mention of hoa sho ken as a super before 1994 and I'll stfu.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I'm not starting another thread to debate this crap, hoa sho ken was never ever called a super art until SSF2 turbo came out. It was always called a special, but because SSF2 turbo has a bar, hao sho ken becomes a super. show me any mention of hoa sho ken as a super before 1994 and I'll stfu.

The Hao Sho Ko Ken is only one of the two

Here, read this:



The link to that FAQ is here

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
The Hao Sho Ko Ken is only one of the two

Here, read this:



The link to that FAQ is here
Was it written before 94?
Cause this is what I said:

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
show me any mention of hoa sho ken as a super before 1994 and I'll stfu.

Yes it was, becuase it hasn't been updated since 94.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Yes it was, becuase it hasn't been updated since 94.

I said before 94, not during.

http://www.videotopia.com/games.htm

Gill wins