Captain America vs Namor

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xmarksthespot
Standard forum rules, no prep, PIS, CIS etc

smile

Grimm22
Without prep...

Namor 7/10 wink

willRules
Namor wins easily yes

Alfheim
No its not that clear cut. Captain America has beaten Namor before, in all fairness the Controller was controlling him. Captain America dodged his blows and hit him on the back of the neck were a device was.

Ok in all fairness if the device was not there he would not have knocked Namor out, but bare in mind that Namor was trying to kill him and Captain America was dodging and defending his blows.

Also Captain America has beaten the Wrecker, Mr Hyde and The Rhino.

Cap maybe able to pull it off

Alfheim
Yeah and thats without prep.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Alfheim
No its not that clear cut. Captain America has beaten Namor before, in all fairness the Controller was controlling him. Captain America dodged his blows and hit him on the back of the neck were a device was.

Ok in all fairness if the device was not there he would not have knocked Namor out, but bare in mind that Namor was trying to kill him and Captain America was dodging and defending his blows.
no
Originally posted by Alfheim
Also Captain America has beaten the Wrecker, Mr Hyde and The Rhino.Irrelevant. Everyone beats Rhino.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Cap maybe able to pull it off Sure maybe 1 time in 100 or so.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Alfheim
No its not that clear cut. Captain America has beaten Namor before, in all fairness the Controller was controlling him. Captain America dodged his blows and hit him on the back of the neck were a device was.

Ok in all fairness if the device was not there he would not have knocked Namor out, but bare in mind that Namor was trying to kill him and Captain America was dodging and defending his blows.

Also Captain America has beaten the Wrecker, Mr Hyde and The Rhino.

Cap maybe able to pull it off What the f**k?

lilnutta12
nobody ever seems to be online these days

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Alfheim
No its not that clear cut. Captain America has beaten Namor before, in all fairness the Controller was controlling him. Captain America dodged his blows and hit him on the back of the neck were a device was.

Ok in all fairness if the device was not there he would not have knocked Namor out, but bare in mind that Namor was trying to kill him and Captain America was dodging and defending his blows.

Also Captain America has beaten the Wrecker, Mr Hyde and The Rhino.

Cap maybe able to pull it off

He certainly can.

Namor was trying to kill him. Cap was holding back and he still won.

Namor was in water and Cap STAGGERED him. Plus, Cap knows how to strike nerve clusters, pressure points etc, so he doesn't need 'super-strength' or anything like that.

Yeah, he can definately win.

Alfheim
xmarksthespot
<Irrelevant. Everyone beats Rhino>

Xmarksthespot I also said Mr Hyde who can lift 50 tons and the Wrecker who can lift 40 tons. Namor can lift 40 tons above water. I also said that Captain America was dodging his blows.

I dont understand how this equates to 1 time in 100. Cap has beaten stronger opponents laods of times.

Sometimes I swear its like people just ignore what you say....

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Alfheim
Namor can lift 40 tons above water.Oh dear.
Originally posted by Alfheim
I dont understand how this equates to 1 time in 100. Cap has beaten stronger opponents laods of times.This is a forum. Not a comic. There are no Marvel writers to protect him here.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Sometimes I swear its like people just ignore what you say.... smile

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by chilled monkey
He certainly can.

Namor was trying to kill him. Cap was holding back and he still won.

Namor was in water and Cap STAGGERED him. Plus, Cap knows how to strike nerve clusters, pressure points etc, so he doesn't need 'super-strength' or anything like that.

Yeah, he can definately win.

Namor's physiology is VASTLY different from humans. So unless Cap has suddenly recieved knowledge of nerve points in human-Atlantean mutant hybrids, he is not going to do any damage. Besides, he would still need to have superhuman strength to apply enouogh pressure to nerve points of someone who is millions of times more durable then a human...

Originally posted by Alfheim
xmarksthespot
<Irrelevant. Everyone beats Rhino>

Xmarksthespot I also said Mr Hyde who can lift 50 tons and the Wrecker who can lift 40 tons. Namor can lift 40 tons above water. I also said that Captain America was dodging his blows.

I dont understand how this equates to 1 time in 100. Cap has beaten stronger opponents laods of times.

Sometimes I swear its like people just ignore what you say....

Jesus Christ, no. I thought it was already common knowledge that Namor is Class 100 inside and outside water when not dehydrated...I'd advise you to read this thread...
http://www.superherochat.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=100333

JOE NUNEZ
Please if he cant handle Sidey, hes not going to handle NAMOR...

Alfheim
Nawww mate you failed its not common knowledge that he can lift 100 outside water! Its common knowledge that hes weaker were did you get that from??

First of all

This is from Marvel.com
Namor possesses a high level of superhuman strength, enabling him to lift/press up to 100 tons while in contact with water; his strength gradually decreases according to the length of time he is out of water and can eventually dwindle to no more than slightly above human level.

Thats official!

This is from a site called the Marvel directory

Namor can lift about 85 tons at peak capacity, although his strength degrades the longer he is out of water, to a minimum of 40 tons.

This written by fans but I dont think its official. I have read this in Marvel Universe though.

Quote Dark Crawler
<Namor's physiology is VASTLY different from humans>

Yeah they can breath under water and your average atlantanean is only slightly stronger than human, apart from that there is no difference. You poke an Atlantanean in the eyes or kick his privates its going to hurt!

Loads of people have fought Atlantaneans over the years including the avengers on none of these occassions did I hear

"Damn I just punched him in the face and he didnt go down, I must study Atlantaean physiology".

Your blowing things out of proportion.

Quote Dark Crawler
<Besides, he would still need to have superhuman strength to apply enouogh pressure to nerve points of someone who is millions of times more durable then a human...>

Bruv didnt you hear what I just said. Captain America has beaten The Wrecker and My Hyde. The Wrecker 40 tons Mr Hyde 50. Namor was trying to kill him..... and he was dodging all his blows. Captain America has enough speed and agility to dodge Namor until he is weak enough.

Captain America was locked in a room with Demoltion man who was trying to kill him and his strength level was around 85 tons. Captain America just dodged him for about an hour and waited for him to get weaker.

At any rate toe to toe Captain America can dodge Namors blows, because thats what he did in the comic.

marvelprince
Originally posted by JOE NUNEZ
Please if he cant handle Sidey, hes not going to handle NAMOR...

Co-signed. Remember how bad Iron Man was kicking his butt and Tony wasn't even trying

Alfheim
Of course he cant handle spidey thats why there are numerous examples of Cap fighting Spidey and giving him a good fight.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Alfheim
Nawww mate you failed its not common knowledge that he can lift 100 outside water! Its common knowledge that hes weaker were did you get that from??

First of all

This is from Marvel.com
Namor possesses a high level of superhuman strength, enabling him to lift/press up to 100 tons while in contact with water; his strength gradually decreases according to the length of time he is out of water and can eventually dwindle to no more than slightly above human level.

Thats official!

This is from a site called the Marvel directory

Namor can lift about 85 tons at peak capacity, although his strength degrades the longer he is out of water, to a minimum of 40 tons.

This written by fans but I dont think its official. I have read this in Marvel Universe though.

Quote Dark Crawler
<Namor's physiology is VASTLY different from humans>

Yeah they can breath under water and your average atlantanean is only slightly stronger than human, apart from that there is no difference. You poke an Atlantanean in the eyes or kick his privates its going to hurt!

Loads of people have fought Atlantaneans over the years including the avengers on none of these occassions did I hear

"Damn I just punched him in the face and he didnt go down, I must study Atlantaean physiology".

Your blowing things out of proportion.

Quote Dark Crawler
<Besides, he would still need to have superhuman strength to apply enouogh pressure to nerve points of someone who is millions of times more durable then a human...>

Bruv didnt you hear what I just said. Captain America has beaten The Wrecker and My Hyde. The Wrecker 40 tons Mr Hyde 50. Namor was trying to kill him..... and he was dodging all his blows. Captain America has enough speed and agility to dodge Namor until he is weak enough.

Captain America was locked in a room with Demoltion man who was trying to kill him and his strength level was around 85 tons. Captain America just dodged him for about an hour and waited for him to get weaker.

At any rate toe to toe Captain America can dodge Namors blows, because thats what he did in the comic. Oh dear. no

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Alfheim
Nawww mate you failed its not common knowledge that he can lift 100 outside water! Its common knowledge that hes weaker were did you get that from??

First of all

This is from Marvel.com
Namor possesses a high level of superhuman strength, enabling him to lift/press up to 100 tons while in contact with water; his strength gradually decreases according to the length of time he is out of water and can eventually dwindle to no more than slightly above human level.

Thats official!

This is from a site called the Marvel directory

Yea. You can just stop right here.

Marvel Directory is one of the most out-dated sites on the internet. I bet it still says Spidey can only lift two tons. Or that Quicksilver can only run up to 175 mph. Or any number of things.

No animosity towards you at all, my friend, but come back and try again when you know who you're debating about. You'll see that it'll be worth it. yes

Metalmanx
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Oh dear. no

We must go easy on him and try to educate him, xmarks. You know it is right, it is our resonsibility to teach the world!

Or something like that. stick out tongue

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Metalmanx
We must go easy on him and try to educate him, xmarks. You know it is right, it is our resonsibility to teach the world!

Or something like that. stick out tongue Of course... shifty

Metalmanx
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Of course... shifty

Hey, Xmarks. You know what would make my day? If you brought back that hot Blink signature. angel

Come on, you know you wanna! big grin

xmarksthespot
I'm going to change to an Emma Frost one some time soon...

marvelprince
Originally posted by Alfheim
Of course he cant handle spidey thats why there are numerous examples of Cap fighting Spidey and giving him a good fight.

I cant believe you really think that a viable arguement. Usually a company isn't going let two of its most viable properties with each other and have a decisive winner. Thats why we have had Daredevil vs Namor, Namor vs Spider-Man, Punisher vs Wolverine etc. This is especially true back in the day where most heroes fought each other and no matter how miss-matched or outclassed they were the fight always made them appear as equals. Maybe if you name a recent incident.

Thats for another thread anyway, point is Namor is leagues above Cap and Steve doesn't have much of a chance of winning

Alfheim
This the quote from Marvel.com.. i have posted this already.

<<<<This is from Marvel.com
Namor possesses a high level of superhuman strength, enabling him to lift/press up to 100 tons while in contact with water; <<<<his strength gradually decreases according to the length of time he is out of water and can eventually dwindle to no more than slightly above human level.>>>>>>>

Ok marvel directory is out of date thats why I also had a quote from Marvel.com.

Again you are ignoring part of my post.

marvelprince
Originally posted by Alfheim
This the quote from Marvel.com.. i have posted this already.

<<<<This is from Marvel.com
Namor possesses a high level of superhuman strength, enabling him to lift/press up to 100 tons while in contact with water; <<<<his strength gradually decreases according to the length of time he is out of water and can eventually dwindle to no more than slightly above human level.>>>>>>>

Ok marvel directory is out of date thats why I also had a quote from Marvel.com.

Again you are ignoring part of my post.

And you're ignoing the rules of this forum. All combatants are at full potential meaning Namor starts out fully hydrated.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Alfheim
Nawww mate you failed its not common knowledge that he can lift 100 outside water! Its common knowledge that hes weaker were did you get that from??

First of all

This is from Marvel.com
Namor possesses a high level of superhuman strength, enabling him to lift/press up to 100 tons while in contact with water; his strength gradually decreases according to the length of time he is out of water and can eventually dwindle to no more than slightly above human level.

Thats official!

This is from a site called the Marvel directory

Namor can lift about 85 tons at peak capacity, although his strength degrades the longer he is out of water, to a minimum of 40 tons.

This written by fans but I dont think its official. I have read this in Marvel Universe though.

Quote Dark Crawler
<Namor's physiology is VASTLY different from humans>

Yeah they can breath under water and your average atlantanean is only slightly stronger than human, apart from that there is no difference. You poke an Atlantanean in the eyes or kick his privates its going to hurt!

Loads of people have fought Atlantaneans over the years including the avengers on none of these occassions did I hear

"Damn I just punched him in the face and he didnt go down, I must study Atlantaean physiology".

Your blowing things out of proportion.

Quote Dark Crawler
<Besides, he would still need to have superhuman strength to apply enouogh pressure to nerve points of someone who is millions of times more durable then a human...>

Bruv didnt you hear what I just said. Captain America has beaten The Wrecker and My Hyde. The Wrecker 40 tons Mr Hyde 50. Namor was trying to kill him..... and he was dodging all his blows. Captain America has enough speed and agility to dodge Namor until he is weak enough.

Captain America was locked in a room with Demoltion man who was trying to kill him and his strength level was around 85 tons. Captain America just dodged him for about an hour and waited for him to get weaker.

At any rate toe to toe Captain America can dodge Namors blows, because thats what he did in the comic.

My God. You really are new to this, aren't you?

Comics are higher on the canon scale then Handbooks. They are written by CREATORS of the characters, people who give characters their histories and powers. Handbooks are not written by comic book writers. Handbook creators make mistakes. Many mistakes. For example, handbooks says that Captain America has mastered Judo and American Boxing. However, DIRECTLY after that, the stats say that he has mastered nearly all martial arts.

Namor has been Class 100 BEFORE and AFTER handbooks were created, and Bill Everett, you know, HIS CREATOR, has written him as Class 100. So has Stan Lee. Roy Thomas. Comic book writers.

Comics are higher Handbooks when it comes to official words. Namor is Class 100, and he has proven this through feats he has made in comics. If he is not dehydrated, he is as strong in land as he is in water. You can't argue against that. Look at the pictures in the thread I posted.

As for the whole pressure thing, I was referring to nerve points...Namor's nerves are not in the same place then humans...Captain America's punches and kicks would not affect Namor. Namor is faster, stronger, more durable, more experienced, and could end Captain America's life with one punch.

Even inexperienced Namor could defeat Cap:
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt16dm.gif
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt24wn.gif
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt32jx.gif
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt49si.gif
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt53nu.gif

Nowadays...
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor18vl.gif
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor26el.gif
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor31vu.gif

marvelprince
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
My God. You really are new to this, aren't you?

Comics are higher on the canon scale then Handbooks. They are written by CREATORS of the characters, people who give characters their histories and powers. Handbooks are not written by comic book writers. Handbook creators make mistakes. Many mistakes. For example, handbooks says that Captain America has mastered Judo and American Boxing. However, DIRECTLY after that, the stats say that he has mastered nearly all martial arts.

Namor has been Class 100 BEFORE and AFTER handbooks were created, and Bill Everett, you know, HIS CREATOR, has written him as Class 100. So has Stan Lee. Roy Thomas. Comic book writers.

Comics are higher Handbooks when it comes to official words. Namor is Class 100, and he has proven this through feats he has made in comics. If he is not dehydrated, he is as strong in land as he is in water. You can't argue against that. Look at the pictures in the thread I posted.

As for the whole pressure thing, I was referring to nerve points...Namor's nerves are not in the same place then humans...Captain America's punches and kicks would not affect Namor. Namor is faster, stronger, more durable, more experienced, and could end Captain America's life with one punch.

Even inexperienced Namor could defeat Cap:
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt16dm.gif
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt24wn.gif
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt32jx.gif
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt49si.gif
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt53nu.gif

Nowadays...
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor18vl.gif
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor26el.gif
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor31vu.gif

Game. Set. Owned big grin

Alfheim
Dark Crawler ive looked at your links....Ok there are some points to you.

First of all there are examples of him doing amazing feats while he is out of water or just come out of water. For example him pushing that frieghter underwater.

he knock out Beta Ray Bill....Bruv...its raining.....

Also him breaking the bands of cyttorak will who said it was a Clas 100 feat you yourself said Strange wasnt concentrating. Also how do you know thatAnchor is 50 tons? Also when Namor is in that interdimensional ether Namor says he will <<<swim>> through it, swimming is bolded so what they are trying to tell you is that he is manipulating ti like water.

In all fairness there are somethings that you have a point with.

This is the thing though the facts say that Namor has class 100 strength in water but not out, so if you see him doing something regardless of how awesome you think it is obvoulsy this is what the writer thinks is class 100.

I mean Hawkeye doesnt have any powers but how come hes able to shout gones and weapons out of mutiple attackers hands, that aint possible but in the Marvel Universe that is not considered superhuman.

The same way that when you see Namor pushing a freighter thats what the writers thinks is class 100..like you said who does the research.


Quote MarvelPrince
<Thats for another thread anyway, point is Namor is leagues above Cap and Steve doesn't have much of a chance of winning>

Yeah of course this is why when Namor was trying to kill Cap he was able to dodge his blows and even survived underwater.

Basically this is what is happening you dont like Cap therefore when I give you an example of him going toe to toe with Namor you ignore it .......because you simply dont like it.

This is like me telling you that birds can fly and you disgreeing because you despise birds evnthough you can see them flying.

And excuse me daredevil may not be able to beat Namor but he can sure as well dodge him. Daredevil has fought Tyr.

It doesnt matter if Namor can push a freighter or whatever the facts are Cap has gone toe to toe with Namor...they wrote and thats it!

Superherovandal
besides nowadays doesn't Namor wear that suit that keeps him fully hydrated always?

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Alfheim
Dark Crawler ive looked at your links....Ok there are some points to you.

First of all there are examples of him doing amazing feats while he is out of water or just come out of water. For example him pushing that frieghter underwater.

he knock out Beta Ray Bill....Bruv...its raining.....

Also him breaking the bands of cyttorak will who said it was a Clas 100 feat you yourself said Strange wasnt concentrating. Also how do you know thatAnchor is 50 tons? Also when Namor is in that interdimensional ether Namor says he will <<<swim>> through it, swimming is bolded so what they are trying to tell you is that he is manipulating ti like water.

In all fairness there are somethings that you have a point with.

This is the thing though the facts say that Namor has class 100 strength in water but not out, so if you see him doing something regardless of how awesome you think it is obvoulsy this is what the writer thinks is class 100.

I mean Hawkeye doesnt have any powers but how come hes able to shout gones and weapons out of mutiple attackers hands, that aint possible but in the Marvel Universe that is not considered superhuman.

The same way that when you see Namor pushing a freighter thats what the writers thinks is class 100..like you said who does the research.


Quote MarvelPrince
<Thats for another thread anyway, point is Namor is leagues above Cap and Steve doesn't have much of a chance of winning>

Yeah of course this is why when Namor was trying to kill Cap he was able to dodge his blows and even survived underwater.

Basically this is what is happening you dont like Cap therefore when I give you an example of him going toe to toe with Namor you ignore it .......because you simply dont like it.

This is like me telling you that birds can fly and you disgreeing because you despise birds evnthough you can see them flying.

And excuse me daredevil may not be able to beat Namor but he can sure as well dodge him. Daredevil has fought Tyr.

It doesnt matter if Namor can push a freighter or whatever the facts are Cap has gone toe to toe with Namor...they wrote and thats it!

Ummm...it's kind of assumed that Namor is at his full power in this fight, straight from water. Being hydrated is Namor's natural way of being. If he was dehydrated, that would be weaker Namor. Namor was born in water. He has lived there his whole life. Namor is on his element when he is on water. And in this fight, both fighters are in full power, which means that Namor is not dehydrated, he is straight out of water.

And in your example, Namor was mindcontrolled. Mindcontrolled people do not fight as well as normal. And Daredevil can't dodge Namor all the time...Namor happens to be faster then Daredevil too.

Namor defeats Cap. Cap has only gone toe to toe with mindcontrolled Namor. Every time Namor has fought Cap, even when holding back, he has won with ease. You can't fight against facts.

Alfheim
damn......well all i can say is this Namor obvoulsy has gotten more powerful, because he did fight Namor when he was in beserker rage, yeah and Namor was fully hydrated, they had just come out of the water and Cap was dodging his blows.

Im sorry I cant remember the exact issue but it was in the early 90s and I think it outdates your first set of pics but is not as new as the second

As for the handbooks, they may not be wriiten by the writers but they are obvoulsy still approved by Marvel. As far as I know Marvel.com is <<<not>>> out of date.

Well all I can say is that maybe Cap will beat him in the future, beacuse he has done it before. I have to admit sometimes when you read one comic you see a hero being made a total ass off and sometimes not.

Alfheim
Yeah well Cap was mindcontrolled when fought Iceman and Beast and he almost killed them both! So mind control does not neccessarily make you weaker.

When Namor was mindcontrolled he was even more danegrous because he was not holding back, you cant ignore that so really he should have lost, also Captain America was fighting him when he was fully hydrated.

All I can say is this Namor has got tougher, at one point Cap might have been able to beat him but if he can do that now....damn!

Alfheim
Anyway I gotta to take it like a man, you win.

I'll just wait for the next time Cap beats Namor....heh, and then I'll go look, look!!!!

DarkCrawler
When Namor is not mindcontrolled, he is more dangerous. He uses his skill.

I don't remember any point when Cap has been able to beat Namor. namor has always been stronger and faster then Cap.

xmarksthespot
The vs forum isn't designed for arguments to simply be composed of "He fought him in this comic and did well." If that was all there was to it there would be no point in the forum at all. Characters are lowered and heightened regularly to suit a story. It's called plot induced stupidity. And it's usually disregarded as one has to take into account the strengths and weaknesses of both parties. Namor is a class 100, with superspeed, flight, ample fighting skills.

Beast should tear Captain America's face off. Iceman should freeze the blood in his veins. Namor should knock Captain America's head off with a punch.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah well Cap was mindcontrolled when fought Iceman and Beast and he almost killed them both! So mind control does not neccessarily make you weaker.

When Namor was mindcontrolled he was even more danegrous because he was not holding back, you cant ignore that so really he should have lost, also Captain America was fighting him when he was fully hydrated.

All I can say is this Namor has got tougher, at one point Cap might have been able to beat him but if he can do that now....damn!

How did Cap almost kill Beast and Iceman? That sounds like some horrible writing to me.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The vs forum isn't designed for arguments to simply be composed of "He fought him in this comic and did well." If that was all there was to it there would be no point in the forum at all. Characters are lowered and heightened regularly to suit a story. It's called plot induced stupidity. And it's usually disregarded as one has to take into account the strengths and weaknesses of both parties. Namor is a class 100, with superspeed, flight, ample fighting skills.

Beast should tear Captain America's face off. Iceman should freeze the blood in his veins. Namor should knock Captain America's head off with a punch.

Co-signed.

Alfheim
God here we go....

Quote DarK Crawler
<When Namor is not mindcontrolled, he is more dangerous. He uses his skill.>

Thats one way of looking at it, but as I said he...was..trying to...kill...him.

<I don't remember any point when Cap has been able to beat Namor. namor has always been stronger and faster then Cap.>

Yeah he is now, but you havent read the issue of Captain America, he may not have been using strategy but he was in a besreker rage, when you are in a besreker rage you tend to be stronger and faster.


Quote xmarksthe spot
<Characters are lowered and heightened regularly to suit a story. It's called plot induced stupidity.>

Yes thats true sometimes. But in all fairness when I gave you eaxmples of the Rhino, Mr Hyde and The Wrecker you fcoused on the Rhino and ignored the other two.

When I got those quotes you focused on Marvel directory and ignored Marvel.com

xmarksthespot what you do is just compltely reject anything you dont like.

The fact of the matter is this until marvelprince had got those pics out I still had a point.

Namor had just got out of the water he is fully hydrated and beserk.
Cap dodged all his blows, basically thats it, but what your doing is just saying its not possible. If Cap cant dodge Namors blow how come he did it, was he on drugs no, was he mind-controlled no, did he have extra super powers no. Therefore until Prince got his pics out Cap could have taken Namor.

Its not like When Namor is fighting Beta Ray Bill then it starts raining!

Quote Metalmanx
<How did Cap almost kill Beast and Iceman? That sounds like some horrible writing to me.>

Infinity Crusade Cap had dealt with Iceman and was going to chop Beasts head off when Iceman managed to knock him out. I cant remember the issue phone a friend call somone up and get it.

Quote xmarksthespot
<Beast should tear Captain America's face off. Iceman should freeze the blood in his veins.>

Yeah but they didnt, the only thing you can say is that Cpatain America was mind-controlled but apparently thats supposed to make you weak beacuse you cant strategise.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Alfheim
Quote Metalmanx
<How did Cap almost kill Beast and Iceman? That sounds like some horrible writing to me.>

Infinity Crusade Cap had dealt with Iceman and was going to chop Beasts head off when Iceman managed to knock him out. I cant remember the issue phone a friend call somone up and get it.

Quote xmarksthespot
<Beast should tear Captain America's face off. Iceman should freeze the blood in his veins.>

Yeah but they didnt, the only thing you can say is that Cpatain America was mind-controlled but apparently thats supposed to make you weak beacuse you cant strategise.

That's exactly why we're saying it's horrible writing. For one, how could Cap even "deal" with Iceman? And mind-controlled or not, Beast should tear Cap's face off almost everytime.

willRules
Originally posted by Metalmanx
We must go easy on him and try to educate him, xmarks. You know it is right, it is our resonsibility to teach the world!

Or something like that. stick out tongue

Darkcrawler's gonna eat him alive, the guy challenged his Namor knowledge for crying out loud! eek!

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Alfheim
God here we go....

Quote DarK Crawler
<When Namor is not mindcontrolled, he is more dangerous. He uses his skill.>

Thats one way of looking at it, but as I said he...was..trying to...kill...him.

While...mind...controlled. Which is more scary? An retard who doesn't know which day it is, or a skilled assassin who knows what he is doing?

Originally posted by Alfheim
<I don't remember any point when Cap has been able to beat Namor. namor has always been stronger and faster then Cap.>

Yeah he is now, but you havent read the issue of Captain America, he may not have been using strategy but he was in a besreker rage, when you are in a besreker rage you tend to be stronger and faster.

No, he has always been. Can you give me the issue number?

And being mindcontrolled is not same as berseker rage.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Namor had just got out of the water he is fully hydrated and beserk.
Cap dodged all his blows, basically thats it, but what your doing is just saying its not possible. If Cap cant dodge Namors blow how come he did it, was he on drugs no, was he mind-controlled no, did he have extra super powers no. Therefore until Prince got his pics out Cap could have taken Namor.

Its not like When Namor is fighting Beta Ray Bill then it starts raining!


When someone is berserk, they usually don't aim their hits with the same skill they can and use the speed they have. Namor's aim is extremely good. Can you show the issue number?

Like said before, Captain America has NO. CHANCE. against Namor who fights with skill.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Alfheim
Quote xmarksthe spot
<Characters are lowered and heightened regularly to suit a story. It's called plot induced stupidity.>

Yes thats true sometimes. But in all fairness when I gave you eaxmples of the Rhino, Mr Hyde and The Wrecker you fcoused on the Rhino and ignored the other two.

When I got those quotes you focused on Marvel directory and ignored Marvel.com

xmarksthespot what you do is just compltely reject anything you dont like.blink I disregard things that should be disregarded under the forum rules. And frankly I didn't even read the Namor bios posted because I've already been through DC's respect thread. I think you really need to be around longer than a day to make a judgement call on what I do or don't reject.

Alfheim
Quote metalmanx
<That's exactly why we're saying it's horrible writing. For one, how could Cap even "deal" with Iceman? And mind-controlled or not, Beast should tear Cap's face off almost everytime.>

Heres the difference betwwen me you. Until Marvelprince came out with the pics I was arguing that Cap could beat Namor. If I were like you I would start saying that its not pissible because of what happened in a previous issue of Captain America, but im able to be objective and take it on the chin.

Now you have an example of Cap almost beat Beast and Iceman you simply reject it cos you dont like it. The fact of the matter is it happened if you are just going to ignore events in the Marvel Universe I should be like you and jsut ignore Marvelprinces pics beacuse I simply dont agree.

If you must know Cap has similar strength as the beast and agility but he is a much better fight one and one Cap would cream the Beast.

xmarksthespot
So so tempted to do "Captain America vs Beast and Iceman" now... somebody hold me back...

And Captain America doesn't hold a dim candle under a shitstorm to Beast's agility.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Alfheim
Quote metalmanx
<That's exactly why we're saying it's horrible writing. For one, how could Cap even "deal" with Iceman? And mind-controlled or not, Beast should tear Cap's face off almost everytime.>

Heres the difference betwwen me you. Until Marvelprince came out with the pics I was arguing that Cap could beat Namor. If I were like you I would start saying that its not pissible because of what happened in a previous issue of Captain America, but im able to be objective and take it on the chin.

Now you have an example of Cap almost beat Beast and Iceman you simply reject it cos you dont like it. The fact of the matter is it happened if you are just going to ignore events in the Marvel Universe I should be like you and jsut ignore Marvelprinces pics beacuse I simply dont agree.

If you must know Cap has similar strength as the beast and agility but he is a much better fight one and one Cap would cream the Beast.

Woah, woah, woah, woah.

Don't tell me why I'm rejecting the example. You are not me, thus don't know why I do or say the things I do. In addition to that, you're basically brand-spankin new to the forum. Read up on some of the characters before you spout out nonsense like that.

I'm not "rejecting" it because I don't like it. I'm "rejecting" it beacuse it makes no sense. While you think you know a lot about Cap, you clearly know nothing about Beast nor Iceman. I asked you pretty politely if you could just explain as to how Cap "dealt" with Iceman and how he was close to killing Beast. Is that do-able?

By the way:
Beast's strength >>>> Cap's strength.
Beast's agility>>>>>>Caps's agility.
Beast's reflexes>Caps's refexes.

In a one-on-one fight, Beast would take home the majority of wins. And that's Cap WITH his shield.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
So so tempted to do "Captain America vs Beast and Iceman" now... somebody hold me back...

And Captain America doesn't hold a dim candle under a a shitstorm to Beast's agility.

That's one way of putting it, yes. big grin

Hm...that thread may be too much in Cap's favor...try adding Gladiator to give the Duo a fighting chance.

willRules
laughing

DarkCrawler
I seriously don't know why every new guy ignores this thread...
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t308157.html



Or Captain America being able to take a hit from Namor or beat Iceman etc...

Alfheim
Quote Dark Crawler
<While...mind...controlled. Which is more scary? An retard who doesn't know which day it is, or a skilled assassin who knows what he is doing?>

You're telling me a beserk fully hydrated Namor is a retard.

Quote Dark Crawler
<No, he has always been.>
No he has not thats why he was able to dodge his blows

<Can you give me the issue number?>

Nope but I can quote Marvel.com
<Even still, the Controller continued his criminal activities. The Red Skull partnered with him to manipulate the Sub-Mariner into fighting Captain America, but the Captain destroyed the slave disc that was controlling his friend and the two turned the tables on him. >

You can go there and check it for yourself. If Cap cant dodge Namor how did he manage to survive.

<And being mindcontrolled is not same as berseker rage.>

It is if youve been mindcontrolled to be in one LOL.

Quote Dark crawler
<When someone is berserk, they usually don't aim their hits with the same skill they can and use the speed they have. Namor's aim is extremely good.>

Maybe but they also do more damage, works for the Hulk.

Quote xmarksthepot
<I think you really need to be around longer than a day to make a judgement call on what I do or don't reject.>

Im sorry but it just seems like your being one sided. I didnt say it to offend but its like your looking at the Respect thread but completely ignoring what I say.

Alfheim
Metalmanx obvoulsy whoever wrote the battle between Cap and Beast and Iceman didnt know much either.

No im sorry Caps strength is similar to that of the Beasts. The Beast strength level is 1 to 5 tons. Caps strength is 800Lbs but he has been known to lift 1100lbs and according to one site he as lifted near to 5tons, assuming that the website actually showed a picture of him benchpressing at least 1100lbs then i'll assume they are telling the truth.

Caps and the Beast agility are similar, and yes I will give examples from handbooks beacuse eventhough they may not be made by the writers, they still have to be approved by Marvel. The number of times ive seen Cap and Beasts strength and agility calssified in similar categories is rdiculous.

Quote Metalmanx
<Don't tell me why I'm rejecting the example. You are not me, thus don't know why I do or say the things I do.>

Bruv I am just going but what youre doing. Marvelprince gave me an example of Namor beating Cap...what did I do? I accepted it...but when I gave you an example of Cap beating the Beast and Iceman, you just rejected outright, what am I supposed to think. If I did what you did I would make some excuse up and ignore Marvelprinces post.

Also bear in mind that Caps fighting skills are much superior to Beasts. iceman can generate Ice but hes not fast or agile.

H. S. 6
Iceman would flash freeze Cap in a second. Or suck the water out of him. Or freeze the blood in his veins. Or...


Are you really trying to defend Captian America against Iceman?

Alfheim
Let me give you an example
Me: Birds can fly
You: No they cant
*a bird flys past*
Me: Look theres one over there flying!
You: Its not flying they just have very strong legs...their jumping

OR

Me: Birds can fly

* A birds flys past*
You: Its not flying..
Me: Yeah but it just flew past
You: No it didnt...er...it had a jet pack on.

Look ok please dont get annoyed im just trying to make myself clear.

Alfheim
So why did his *** get pumeled
<Iceman would flash freeze Cap in a second. Or suck the water out of him. Or freeze the blood in his veins. Or...>

So cap is gonna stand still and let him do it.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Alfheim
Quote Dark Crawler
<While...mind...controlled. Which is more scary? An retard who doesn't know which day it is, or a skilled assassin who knows what he is doing?>

You're telling me a beserk fully hydrated Namor is a retard.

Compared to his usual showings, yes.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Quote Dark Crawler
<No, he has always been.>
No he has not thats why he was able to dodge his blows

Like said before, mindcontrolled guys don't fight as fast as they fight normally.

Originally posted by Alfheim
<Can you give me the issue number?>

Nope but I can quote Marvel.com
<Even still, the Controller continued his criminal activities. The Red Skull partnered with him to manipulate the Sub-Mariner into fighting Captain America, but the Captain destroyed the slave disc that was controlling his friend and the two turned the tables on him. >

You can go there and check it for yourself. If Cap cant dodge Namor how did he manage to survive.

I have the issue here now...only time he dodged something was when he played dead. Every other time Namor either got him, or his shield was on the way...huh

Originally posted by Alfheim
Quote Dark crawler
<When someone is berserk, they usually don't aim their hits with the same skill they can and use the speed they have. Namor's aim is extremely good.>

Maybe but they also do more damage, works for the Hulk.


We were talking about speed, not damage...

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Alfheim
So why did his *** get pumeled
<Iceman would flash freeze Cap in a second. Or suck the water out of him. Or freeze the blood in his veins. Or...>

So cap is gonna stand still and let him do it. Do you realize that he would have no choice? All Iceman would need to do is to think it.

H. S. 6
Originally posted by Alfheim
So why did his *** get pumeled
<Iceman would flash freeze Cap in a second. Or suck the water out of him. Or freeze the blood in his veins. Or...>

So cap is gonna stand still and let him do it.

What the hell is Cap going to do to? His blood would be frozen at Iceman's whim. What the f**k?

Soljer
*sighs* When people defend Cap ignorantly, they make those of us who try to defend Cap intelligently look that much worse.

Cap Loses.

Alfheim
Quote Dark crawler
<Compared to his usual showings, yes.>

Thats beacuse he lost

Quote Dark Crwaler
<Like said before, mindcontrolled guys don't fight as fast as they fight normally.>

Well ok how do you know he was slower? Im saying its a possibility but did Cap say he was slower, are there any indications that when the Controller puts on a slave disc that aperson comes slower.

You dont always become slower when youre under Mind Control eg Cap versus Iceman and Beast.

Quote Dark crawler
<I have the issue here now...only time he dodged something was when he played dead. Every other time Namor either got him, or his shield was on the way..>

Yeah of course he used his shield but I distinctly remember him ducking under Namor and hitting the Slave disc. Besides Cap is allowed to use the shield hes human for christ sake. Sorry I wanna see the fight from beginning to end I aint gonna take your word for it.


Quote Dark Crawler
<Do you realize that he would have no choice? All Iceman would need to do is to think it.>

So why did Iceman get his *** handed to him then?

If I were to do what youre doing I would just ignore any example that anybody gives me from the marvel universe eventhough it contradicts what im saying.

Alfheim
H.S.6
<What the hell is Cap going to do to? His blood would be frozen at Iceman's whim>

So.....why....did......cap.....kick....his...behind.

H. S. 6
Originally posted by Alfheim
Quote Dark Crawler
<Do you realize that he would have no choice? All Iceman would need to do is to think it.>

So why did Iceman get his *** handed to him then?

If I were to do what youre doing I would just ignore any example that anybody gives me from the marvel universe eventhough it contradicts what im saying.

That's a good question. Smart people call it PIS and CIS. smile


Do you want me to make a Captain America vs. Iceman thread? Because I will. In a heartbeat.

Alfheim
Quote H.S.6
<Do you want me to make a Captain America vs. Iceman thread? Because I will. In a heartbeat.>


Whats the point if youre just going to ignore me blantanly. Im not going to be joining I give you examples and you just completely ignore it.

H. S. 6
Originally posted by Alfheim
Quote H.S.6
<Do you want me to make a Captain America vs. Iceman thread? Because I will. In a heartbeat.>


Whats the point if youre just going to ignore me blantanly. Im not going to be joining I give you examples and you just completely ignore it.

You're ignoring the facts that Iceman could A) freeze his blood, B) suck out all the water in his body, or C) flash freeze him in an instant. You're also ignoring the fact that Captain America can do diddily squat to Iceman.

By the way, do you have scans of this fight of yours?

Apolloknight
Originally posted by Alfheim
H.S.6
<What the hell is Cap going to do to? His blood would be frozen at Iceman's whim>

So.....why....did......cap.....kick....his...behind.


Dude you don't get it laughing

If Capitan America beat oh, lets say, Cyclopes by rushing him from one-hundred feet away, and all cyclopes does is fire two blast from his visor at him hitting his shield, does that mean Cyclopes should always lose this way?

Why couldnt cyclopes, just, you know, take off is visor, and level everything in sight, killing Capt.

Ya dig.

Alfheim
Namor cant push freighters and lift destroyers...because I said so the fact that hes done it in a comic is neither here no there.

He cant break the bands of cyttorak either...whats that you have an example of him doing it....nevermind i'll just ignore it.

I'll just ignore the writers.

H. S. 6
Originally posted by Alfheim
Namor cant push freighters and lift destroyers...because I said so the fact that hes done it in a comic is neither here no there.

He cant break the bands of cyttorak either...whats that you have an example of him doing it....nevermind i'll just ignore it.

I'll just ignore the writers.

It's funny how you're now ignoring what we say, and simply going off on your own immature tantrum.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Alfheim
Quote Dark crawler
<Compared to his usual showings, yes.>

Thats beacuse he lost


...yes...Namor fighting NORMALLY would (and has not) lost to Captain America...What the f**k?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Quote Dark Crwaler
<Like said before, mindcontrolled guys don't fight as fast as they fight normally.>

Well ok how do you know he was slower? Im saying its a possibility but did Cap say he was slower, are there any indications that when the Controller puts on a slave disc that aperson comes slower.

You dont always become slower when youre under Mind Control eg Cap versus Iceman and Beast.


Because Namor is fast enough to catch missiles from air and dodge bullets with ease when he is not controlled...Namor's mindcontrol-stupidity was shown also when he did not attempt to block or dodge Captain America's shot to the throat...even though he has shown that he can easily dodge Cap and faster things then Cap.


Originally posted by Alfheim
Quote Dark crawler
<I have the issue here now...only time he dodged something was when he played dead. Every other time Namor either got him, or his shield was on the way..>

Yeah of course he used his shield but I distinctly remember him ducking under Namor and hitting the Slave disc. Besides Cap is allowed to use the shield hes human for christ sake. Sorry I wanna see the fight from beginning to end I aint gonna take your word for it.

Yeah, he ducked under Namor when he was playing dead...like I said.

And I was supposed to take your word for it?

Sorry, in fight where Namor is not weak OR mind-controlled, Cap will get his arse handed to him in platter. It is a fact.

Well, here is the whole fight.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Quote Dark Crawler
<Do you realize that he would have no choice? All Iceman would need to do is to think it.>

So why did Iceman get his *** handed to him then?


Because he did not use all his powers. Tell me, how is Cap going to escape this?
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/219/iceman16ds.gif
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/1498/iceman28iv.gif

Alfheim
Quote HS6
<You're ignoring the facts that Iceman could A) freeze his blood, B) suck out all the water in his body, or C) flash freeze him in an instant. You're also ignoring the fact that Captain America can do diddily squat to Iceman.>

So hes gonna stand still, actually Iceman tried something like that he got a face full of ice in his face.


Quote from ApolloKing
<Dude you don't get it laughing

If Capitan America beat oh, lets say, Cyclopes by rushing him from one-hundred feet away, and all cyclopes does is fire two blast from his visor at him hitting his shield, does that mean Cyclopes should always lose this way?

Why couldnt cyclopes, just, you know, take off is visor, and level everything in sight, killing Capt.

Ya dig.>

So um did I say that Iceman cant beat Cap. All im saying is that Cap has beaten Iceman before, so Cap can beat Iceman. Dont put words in my mouth.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Alfheim

So um did I say that Iceman cant beat Cap. All im saying is that Cap has beaten Iceman before, so Cap can beat Iceman. Dont put words in my mouth.

Actually, all that proves is that Cap can beat Iceman who doesn't use half of his powers...

H. S. 6
Originally posted by Alfheim
Quote HS6
<You're ignoring the facts that Iceman could A) freeze his blood, B) suck out all the water in his body, or C) flash freeze him in an instant. You're also ignoring the fact that Captain America can do diddily squat to Iceman.>

So hes gonna stand still, actually Iceman tried something like that he got a face full of ice in his face.


Quote from ApolloKing
<Dude you don't get it laughing

If Capitan America beat oh, lets say, Cyclopes by rushing him from one-hundred feet away, and all cyclopes does is fire two blast from his visor at him hitting his shield, does that mean Cyclopes should always lose this way?

Why couldnt cyclopes, just, you know, take off is visor, and level everything in sight, killing Capt.

Ya dig.>

So um did I say that Iceman cant beat Cap. All im saying is that Cap has beaten Iceman before, so Cap can beat Iceman. Dont put words in my mouth.

Captain America cannot beat Iceman, no PIS or CIS included. Ever.

If you doubt that, you obviously know nothing about Iceman.

Alfheim
Ok well can ti see the fight betwween Namor and Cap, but yeah your probably right.

As far as the Iceman pic goes, thats Iceman freezing something like a whole mansion in seconds right. How long did he take to do it, if thats seconds then I dont see what Cap could do.


Quote HS6
<It's funny how you're now ignoring what we say, and simply going off on your own immature tantrum.>

In all fairness both the examples I gave were a longtime ago. Im out of touch.

Alfheim
But I def think Cap can have beast wink.

Gonna get proven wrong again.

H. S. 6
Do you understand that Iceman is a consciousness, embodied in ice? Meaning, Cap could literally do nothing to harm him.

What stops Iceman from doing this?
http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/1166/icemanbloodfreeze4zt8la.jpg


Or this?
http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/8550/iceman13gv.jpg
http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/6134/iceman20rs.jpg
http://img332.imageshack.us/img332/7682/iceman32ns.jpg

You underestimate Bobby. yes

Jyppe
To clear somethings up.

Yes, Cap did fight against Beast, but he hardly fought against Ice man who was busy fighting the Scarlet Witch at the time. Cap 'n Witch were under the influence of the Goddess who posessed the cosmic eggs.

Cosmic eggs >>>>>>>>>>>> slave discs. As they're nearly omnipotent. Goddess just made them to worship her and her "religion". She wasn't controlling them in the fight. So, Cap was fighting with his full will and added rage (Because he wanted to kill all who didn't follow Goddess)

And, Ice-man and Beast weren't actually trying to kill their opponents. Cap used to be Beast's friend, so I doubt Beast would use his full power against him. Besides, Ice-man wasn't as powerfull as he's today. He was more like a guy who could build ice structures and shoot ice (And he was covered in ice)

And, Beast was ape-Beast. The weakest Beast incarciation. Later on the story USA Agent nearly killed Beast.

Alfheim
Well lookthis is the way I see it. That pic of the mansion how quickly did he dot it? Was it instantly or gradually?

If it was instantly then Cap dont stand a chance. Nahhh im not buying it on this new information I cant really see how Cap can beat Iceman I just thought maybe if he can move fast enough he might stand a chance

H. S. 6
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well lookthis is the way I see it. That pic of the mansion how quickly did he dot it? Was it instantly or gradually?

If it was instantly then Cap dont stand a chance. Nahhh im not buying it on this new information I cant really see how Cap can beat Iceman I just thought maybe if he can move fast enough he might stand a chance

Nope. Iceman literally stops molecules from moving.

And the mansion was flash-frozen. wink

Alfheim
Jyype ok this is what I have to say to this Ok he was enraged, but as Dark crawler was saying what you lack in rage is strategy and accuracy, so thats one way of looking at it. Eventhough he made up for it in power.

Honestly though Beast and Cap have similar skill levels I cant see how Cap cant beat the beast enraged or not.

Cap has beaten the US Agent;

Alfheim
Sorry Jype ive never heard of the Ape Beast being the weakest incarnation, anyhow Beasts strength is from 1 to 5 tons in any incarnation, thats not far from Caps strength and apparently Cap has lifted over a ton before;


QuoteHS6
<And the mansion was flash-frozen. wink>
In seconds

DarkCrawler
Flash freezing means that it happens in a second. Iceman does not really freeze things through cold...he stops their molecular motion.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Alfheim
Metalmanx obvoulsy whoever wrote the battle between Cap and Beast and Iceman didnt know much either.

No im sorry Caps strength is similar to that of the Beasts. The Beast strength level is 1 to 5 tons. Caps strength is 800Lbs but he has been known to lift 1100lbs and according to one site he as lifted near to 5tons, assuming that the website actually showed a picture of him benchpressing at least 1100lbs then i'll assume they are telling the truth.

Caps and the Beast agility are similar, and yes I will give examples from handbooks beacuse eventhough they may not be made by the writers, they still have to be approved by Marvel. The number of times ive seen Cap and Beasts strength and agility calssified in similar categories is rdiculous.

Quote Metalmanx
<Don't tell me why I'm rejecting the example. You are not me, thus don't know why I do or say the things I do.>

Bruv I am just going but what youre doing. Marvelprince gave me an example of Namor beating Cap...what did I do? I accepted it...but when I gave you an example of Cap beating the Beast and Iceman, you just rejected outright, what am I supposed to think. If I did what you did I would make some excuse up and ignore Marvelprinces post.

Also bear in mind that Caps fighting skills are much superior to Beasts. iceman can generate Ice but hes not fast or agile.

Beast's strength (at least before his secondary mutation ) was around 10 tons. <--Truth.

Beast has always been far more agile than Cap. Again, not to knock Cap or anything. It's not exactly an insult to say that you're below Beast in agility.

However, Cap DOES have the far superior fighting skills. However again, these skills don't mean much when your opponent greatly outclasses you in every other physical category.

Can you please tell me what happened in the comic you were referring to? As detailed as possible if you don't mind.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Alfheim
Let me give you an example
Me: Birds can fly
You: No they cant
*a bird flys past*
Me: Look theres one over there flying!
You: Its not flying they just have very strong legs...their jumping

OR

Me: Birds can fly

* A birds flys past*
You: Its not flying..
Me: Yeah but it just flew past
You: No it didnt...er...it had a jet pack on.

Look ok please dont get annoyed im just trying to make myself clear.

I really hope you're not referring to me here. You seem to have ignorance and stubborness confused wtih logic.

Jyppe
That's what I've heard. He really doesn't have any showings. Even the human Beast had more showings. He got better just before his Lion mutation, but that loong after Crusade. He was around 10 tons or so, current one is nearly strong as Spider-man IMO.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Jyppe
And, Beast was ape-Beast. The weakest Beast incarciation. Later on the story USA Agent nearly killed Beast.

Late 90s ape-Beast was the strongest one. Even back (I'm assuming this is shortly after Beast left the Avengers? Or when he was still on the team?) then, Beast was still in approximately the 10 ton range of strength. I believe Lion-Beast is weaker than his former self.

Alfheim
Dark Crawler, ok that makes Iceman very powerful. Cap will lose....but DarkCrawlar if you can I still wanna see the fight between Cap and Namor, only if its not too much trouble.

Metalmanx. OK fair enough Beast is stronger than Cap but not by a great deal, like I said Cap has been seen to benchpress at least 1100Lbs and apparently in optimum conditions he was supposed to have lifted in the 5+ ton range. Ok I think this is pushing it, but I think Cap can really unofficially lift 1 ton.

I do recall some trading cards that came out in 1993 were Caps strength and agility were put into the same range as the Beasts.

I also saw in the Marvel RPG game Caps agility was put in the same category as Hank.

Mate all the times ive seen Captain Americas strength and agility compared with the Beasts its always very similar.

But Cap is much superior fighter thats why he will win.

Consider this when the Punisher fought Daredevil, Punsher got beaten but beacuse he is a martial arts expert he got a blow or two in. Now in strength and agility the Beast and Cap are similar and trust me Bruv any Cap fan will tell you Cap is fast he doesnt always rely on his shield he can do backflips like the beast too, but like I said he he a much better combatant.

Quote from metalmanx
<Can you please tell me what happened in the comic you were referring to? As detailed as possible if you don't mind.>

Sorry dont have the comic anymore GRRR



Quote metalmanx
<I really hope you're not referring to me here. You seem to have ignorance and stubborness confused wtih logic.>

nevermind some people have posted some clips and ive been proven wrong.

Alfheim
ok im confuded I thought there were two beasts....human looking beast and blue skin beast.....damn you mean theres a third one?

willRules
Originally posted by Alfheim
ok im confuded I thought there were two beasts....human looking beast and blue skin beast.....damn you mean theres a third one?

Different incarnations, same man. For more info check out this link....

http://uncannyxmen.net/db/spotlight/showquestion.asp?faq=10&fldAuto=57

Are you the guy who thinks Cap can beat Namor? You do realise Namor is the type of guy who has beaten the Hulk. Do you think Cap can take Hulk? Surfer? Thanos? TOAA? wink

Soljer
Anywho.
Cap loses to Namor. Often.
He loses to Spidey. Less often.
He loses to Iceman. No matter what.
However, I would give Captain America good chances against beast. He has shown, numerous times, to be a match for Hank. The Iceman/Beast fight had Iceman acting like an idiot, but it seemed a fairly accurate representation of Cap/Beast. Cap took beast another time, surprised beast with his speed, and beast even admits that Cap is "almost as nimble as I am."

I would say that Cap draws with Beast 5/10 or even takes a slight majority. But hey, I'll be labeled a Cap fanboy soon enough, so why not just give Cap 10/10 against Iceman big grin.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Soljer
Anywho.
Cap loses to Namor. Often.


Can you name a way Cap could even defeat Namor?

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Alfheim
Dark Crawler, ok that makes Iceman very powerful. Cap will lose....but DarkCrawlar if you can I still wanna see the fight between Cap and Namor, only if its not too much trouble.

I'll try to scan it. ImageShack has been acting a bit strange, but I'll see what I can do.

Draco69
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I'll try to scan it. ImageShack has been acting a bit strange, but I'll see what I can do.

Poor Darkcrawler. He works so hard for Namor's respect. And than this happens.

Don't worry, my friend. It will happen eventually. Just look at Wonder Woman. Back than, everyone thought Rogue was stronger than her. Nowadays, she has quite the loyal following.

Me so proud.

Happy Dance

Alfheim
WillRules until you give me examples of Namor beating Cap I dont care, what youre saying is irrelevant Cap has beaten the wrecker who has fought Thor BUT, since I was given examples of Namor beating Cap I give in.

Will what is that link supposed to prove do you have examples of Beast beating cap? No in fact Soljer has given two examples of Cap besting Beast.

DarkCrawler
Most people actually respect Namor a lot...just look at SuperHeroChat or Newsarama. I've been trying to spread Namor Awareness.

Anyway, here is the fight:
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/5381/captainamerica36513wy4.jpg
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2299/captainamerica36514od1.jpg
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/5488/captainamerica36515ef0.jpg
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/8170/captainamerica36516qs8.jpg
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/7493/captainamerica36517kz5.jpg
(Notice Captain majorly underestimating Namor's strenght...he is more like hundred thousand times stronger then Cap)

Now, compare that fight to this:
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor18vl.gif
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor26el.gif
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor31vu.gif

And you see that mindcontrolled Namor is nothing compared to smart Namor.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Soljer
Anywho.
Cap loses to Namor. Often.
He loses to Spidey. Less often.
He loses to Iceman. No matter what.
However, I would give Captain America good chances against beast. He has shown, numerous times, to be a match for Hank. The Iceman/Beast fight had Iceman acting like an idiot, but it seemed a fairly accurate representation of Cap/Beast. Cap took beast another time, surprised beast with his speed, and beast even admits that Cap is "almost as nimble as I am."

I would say that Cap draws with Beast 5/10 or even takes a slight majority. But hey, I'll be labeled a Cap fanboy soon enough, so why not just give Cap 10/10 against Iceman big grin.

I would say it close, since they're both physical-type characters. But I would give Beast the slight majority, like 6/10 against Cap.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Alfheim
WillRules until you give me examples of Namor beating Cap I dont care, what youre saying is irrelevant Cap has beaten the wrecker who has fought Thor BUT, since I was given examples of Namor beating Cap I give in.


Wait...so if I say that Thanos beats Cap, you don't believe until you see Thanos actually beating Cap? huh

willRules
Originally posted by Alfheim
WillRules until you give me examples of Namor beating Cap I dont care, what youre saying is irrelevant Cap has beaten the wrecker who has fought Thor BUT, since I was given examples of Namor beating Cap I give in.

Check out Darkcrawler's Namor respect thread. there is one scan where Namor beats cap up with his own shield yes

Originally posted by Alfheim
Will what is that link supposed to prove do you have examples of Beast beating cap? No in fact Soljer has given two examples of Cap besting Beast.

laughing Don't get all defensive on me. I never said it was proof Beast could beat Cap, you asked a question and I answered it, so don't attack me no laughing

But I do think beast beats Cap 7/10
Namor 10/10
wonder woman 10/10
spidey 9/10
Wolverine 6 or 7/10

yes

Alfheim
Listen mate I dont think cap can beat Thanos, but the fact of the matter is that Cap has beaten the Wrecker who has fought Thor. Will rule was talking about Namor NOT Thanos.

The reason why Namor can beat Cap now is because he obvoulsy is more powerful. How else do you explain the fact that Cap actually put up a good fight on the ealirer example ( BEFORE the mind control fight). If Namor was still at that level Cap could possibly beat him second time around.

As for Beast considering that Cap has bested him twice it seems you dont think he would probably win again, the cat beast looks scarey......

Draco69
Originally posted by Alfheim
Listen mate I dont think cap can beat Thanos, but the fact of the matter is that Cap has beaten the Wrecker who has fought Thor. Will rule was talking about Namor NOT Thanos.

The reason why Namor can beat Cap now is because he obvoulsy is more powerful. How else do you explain the fact that Cap actually put up a good fight on the ealirer example ( BEFORE the mind control fight). If Namor was still at that level Cap could possibly beat him second time around.

As for Beast considering that Cap has bested him twice it seems you dont think he would probably win again, the cat beast looks scarey......

Ah, yes. The Chuck Austen issue where Cap defeated the one of the Wrecking Crew with one punch in the jaw....whereas Thor's hammer to the head couldn't....

Alfheim
WillRule then dont use words like...are you the guy....I was just pissed cos I admitted Namor could beat Cap, then its like you was rubbing my face in it.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Alfheim
Listen mate I dont think cap can beat Thanos, but the fact of the matter is that Cap has beaten the Wrecker who has fought Thor. Will rule was talking about Namor NOT Thanos.


The Wrecker was at Class 40 levels when he fought Cap, and the ONLY time he even put up a fight against Thor was when Thor was majorly weakened.

Originally posted by Alfheim
The reason why Namor can beat Cap now is because he obvoulsy is more powerful. How else do you explain the fact that Cap actually put up a good fight on the ealirer example ( BEFORE the mind control fight). If Namor was still at that level Cap could possibly beat him second time around.

Umm...you mean this fight?
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt16dm.gif
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt24wn.gif
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt32jx.gif
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt49si.gif
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt53nu.gif

Because (inexperienced) Namor is beating Cap there too. Cap did zero damage.

Cap has had NEVER had a chance against Namor who fights without mindcontrol.

Alfheim
Draco so now there are two examples of Cap beating the Wrecking Crew. Ok in that issue were there four of the wrecking crew? If so that means they can lift 10 tons each, so it is very possible that Cap could knock a 10 toner out.

What I was refering to was when Cap fought the Wrecker alone in the Avengers on his own the wrecker can lift 40 tons.

willRules
Originally posted by Alfheim
WillRule then dont use words like...are you the guy....I was just pissed cos I admitted Namor could beat Cap, then its like you was rubbing my face in it.

Sorry I don't understand what you are talking about? confused

Alfheim
Well ok then Wrecker only put up a fight Thor was weakened ok fair enough.

The only thing I can say is that hes beaten Mr Hyde who can lift 50 tons....*sigh*

Well if he knew about pressure points in that fight he could have beaten him, because he connects alot but punches him like a normal opponent.

Well no its not looking good cap gets beaten, if hes lucky maybe he will win.

Ok you win.

Alfheim
WillRule...nevermind.

Help! Somebody Help! Weres my backup?????

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well ok then Wrecker only put up a fight Thor was weakened ok fair enough.

The only thing I can say is that hes beaten Mr Hyde who can lift 50 tons....*sigh*

Well if he knew about pressure points in that fight he could have beaten him, because he connects alot but punches him like a normal opponent.

Well no its not looking good cap gets beaten, if hes lucky maybe he will win.

Ok you win.

cool

He needs to be lucky on the level of Gladstone Gander to win.

Alfheim
Ok dont rub it in...*mumbe mumble mumble*...still think he can win....what no I didnt say nothing *mumble mumble*...cap cant get no props *mumble mumble*

Alfheim
Anymore bidders please, Cap gets beaten by Namor

going once!

Alfheim
going twice

Awww C'mon someone back me up.....anyone *hears crickets*

damn cant belive I got to go out like that....*shuffles off*

Alfheim
*shoots laser pistol in the air*

Ok everyone get on the floor! The Captain America Gets Props Resistance Front has now taken over the forum.

Do not attempt to adjust your browser this is now the CBN forum. Thats right the Captain America Beats Namor forum!

We have taken over Atlantis we have inflitarted Asagard and now were going to take over the whole Marvel Universe!!!

MWHAHAHA!

Ok I promise not to do this again, its just a bit of humour.

Soljer
*laughs* Bud, I am just about the only person defending Steve in the Cap vs. Spidey thread. However, do you see me claiming he'll beat out Namor?

Hell no!

no

Alfheim
Fair enough you made some good points, but honestly you can see sometimes people just dont wanna give cap props.

In all honesty I was wrong about Namor because I was lacking in knowledge

Id like to join the Spidey thread but im tto tired now, but it is true sometimes people do give examples but other times you see some people are just not having it.

They aint having it Cap gets no props whatever he does.

Metalmanx
I give Cap mad props. He's one of the greatest comic characters there is. I give him gret odds against almost every othre street leveler out there.

Grimm22
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Even inexperienced Namor could defeat Cap:
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt16dm.gif
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt24wn.gif
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt32jx.gif
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt49si.gif
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorvscapt53nu.gif

Nowadays...
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor18vl.gif
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor26el.gif
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor31vu.gif

Hey Cap was in-experienced back then also shifty

Those second batch of scans dont count on account of how awful all the costumes are stick out tongue

Still Cap cant beat Namor no

Alfheim
Quote metalmanx
<I give Cap mad props. He's one of the greatest comic characters there is. I give him gret odds against almost every othre street leveler out there.>

and some superhumans too! See what soljer says in the cap versus spidey thread

Anyway its too late you aint comin too the Avengers Christmas party. Ive put the word out anyhow we you see hanging around the mansion...out mate.

Thors gonna be the doorman for the day and we have set security...dont even think about turning up.

Alfheim
Ok I think Namor can clearly beat Cap almost every single time, but surely Cap can at least get two wins. Look at the scans below.

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2299/captainamerica36514od1.jpg

Its seems to me in the above scan. Cap actually KOed Namor. Namor wasnt moving so he probably was KOed. Yeah he was mindcontrolled but my point is that Cap does have the capability to KO Namor. Namor was just not fighting at full ability.

http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=141ta.jpg

Namor was stunned so badly by Caps kick that Namor landed on his back. Namor has class 100 durability and superhuman reflexes but still end up on his back. Sure it didnt knock him out but still it implies that Cap could KO him.

http://img286.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav3048142ve.jpg
http://img286.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav3048157yg.jpg

One punch from Cap puts Namor on his back and he gets up rubbing his head. Well I cant read Namors mind maybe it hurt a little bit, maybe it hurt alot, but when somebody is usually punched to the ground and gets up rubbing their head it usually indicates that the punch was powerful.

Alfheim
C'mon guys dont make me bump this too much. sad

Estacado
Namor ftw.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Estacado
Namor ftw.

Yeah I know laughing Im just asking looking at the above scans do you think he can get at most two wins.

masterbruce
Cap 3/10

Alfheim
Originally posted by masterbruce
Cap 3/10

I think 2/10. I think 3/10 is too much. So that means you think that Cap can knock out Namor?

masterbruce
Originally posted by Alfheim
I think 2/10. I think 3/10 is too much. So that means you think that Cap can knock out Namor?

I think Cap can win a couple using his experience, his shield, his fighting skills, and the environment all together to defeat the stronger foe.

Alfheim
Originally posted by masterbruce
I think Cap can win a couple using his experience, his shield, his fighting skills, and the environment all together to defeat the stronger foe.

Well yeah he can use the envinronment but Caps still gonna have to use his limbs and shield to knock him out. Its not like theirs gonna be a furnace around that Cap can use or a vat of acid.

masterbruce
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well yeah he can use the envinronment but Caps still gonna have to use his limbs and shield to knock him out. Its not like theirs gonna be a furnace around that Cap can use or a vat of acid.

lol true. but Namor does get weaker the longer he's on land, right? so if Cap can hold off Namor's initial attacks, he can survive long enough to win.

Alfheim
Originally posted by masterbruce
lol true. but Namor does get weaker the longer he's on land, right? so if Cap can hold off Namor's initial attacks, he can survive long enough to win.

Bro that probably wont happen. Cap has to end it quick, the longer it goes on the less chance he has to win.

Namor may get weaker but not at a massive rate, but he is still extremely fast and intelligent not just strong.

By the way you're a fanboy for thinking Cap can knock out Namor. laughing out loud

Just to make things clear do you think Cap can get an early win ie win by not dragging the fight out?

The Fighter2
Namor would understand this would not be a challenge, so he made it a challenge in order to improve himselfsmile

They fought with Namor holding back, in a close and experiencing combative fightsmile

And congratulated each other of each others teaching afterwardssmile

Alfheim
Originally posted by The Fighter2
Namor would understand this would not be a challenge, so he made it a challenge in order to improve himselfsmile

They fought with Namor holding back, in a close and experiencing combative fightsmile

And congratulated each other of each others teaching afterwardssmile

*sigh* The Judge.

The Fighter2
Originally posted by Alfheim
*sigh* The Judge.

I am no judge, i postes my opinion, brothersmile
Judges are rude and unneccesary people, worshipped for dominating others!
We are free invidualssmile
But my view of this fight matetrs JUST as much as yours, brother, so dont call me the judge, and instead post your opinion, brothersmile

Soljer
Namor. 9/10.

Faceman
Originally posted by Soljer
Namor. 9/10. 9.5

Alfheim
Originally posted by Soljer
Namor. 9/10.

What the f**k? how the hell does Cap get one win over Namor when you think he cant knock him out?

Soljer
Originally posted by Alfheim
What the f**k? how the hell does Cap get one win over Namor when you think he cant knock him out?

Spontaneous Failure of Existence. doped.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Soljer
Spontaneous Failure of Existence. doped.

What kind of stupid statement is that? You said Namor wins 9/10, so how does Cap win the 1/10. C'mon explain yourself.

Soljer
Originally posted by Alfheim
What kind of stupid statement is that? You said Namor wins 9/10, so how does Cap win the 1/10. C'mon explain yourself.

What do you mean? I did explain.

Cap wins one due to Spontaneous Failure of Existence.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Soljer
What do you mean? I did explain.

Cap wins one due to Spontaneous Failure of Existence.

So its a joke and not a seriosu point.

Soljer
Originally posted by Alfheim
So its a joke and not a seriosu point.

It's Cap's only chance of winning.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Soljer
It's Cap's only chance of winning.

Thats just your opinion. My scans of cap punching namor are more than enough proof that Cap has the ability to KO him but Cap will lose the vast majority.

Soljer
Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats just your opinion. My scans of cap punching namor are more than enough proof that Cap has the ability to KO him but Cap will lose the vast majority.

No. They provide enough proof to show that Cap has the ability to hurt him about as much as a three year old could hurt his father.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Soljer
No. They provide enough proof to show that Cap has the ability to hurt him about as much as a three year old could hurt his father.

Yeah beacuse all three years olds are capable of knocking their father to the ground with a punch. The analogy sux stops using it.

Furthermore you cant say that for sure, especially when Cap has struck Namor and he wasnt moving. 3 year olds cant do that to adults.

Soljer
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah beacuse all three years olds are capable of knocking their father to the ground with a punch. The analogy sux stops using it.

Furthermore you cant say that for sure, especially when Cap has struck Namor and he wasnt moving. 3 year olds cant do that to adults.

If a three year old catches an adult by surprise, he can put him on his ass. If a three year old double hammer fists his pops, I'm sure he might make him 'rub his head' the same way Namor did.

Still won't knock him out. no expression.

Not to mention the fact that Namor is a hundred times faster than Cap. no expression.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Soljer
If a three year old catches an adult by surprise, he can put him on his ass.

With a punch????? Cap didnt catch Namor by suprise.


Originally posted by Soljer

If a three year old double hammer fists his pops, I'm sure he might make him 'rub his head' the same way Namor did.

Yeah well Cap didnt double fist him. He hit him with one pucnh and put him on his back. Your analogy still sucks.


Originally posted by Soljer

Still won't knock him out. no expression.

Your analogy sucks. Cap hit him with one punch and put him on his back he didnt double fist him or suprise him. When you see a 3 years old able to floor an adult then come back to me.

Originally posted by Soljer

Not to mention the fact that Namor is a hundred times faster than Cap. no expression.

Thats what people say about Spiderman. roll eyes (sarcastic)

DarkCrawler
If you are talking about the Hate-Monger incident, I took it as Namor was rubbing his head because he was trying to understand what the hell had just happened or to shrug the influence off.

Alfheim
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
If you are talking about the Hate-Monger incident, I took it as Namor was rubbing his head because he was trying to understand what the hell had just happened or to shrug the influence off.

Are you sure? All I know is Cap punched Namor and he landed on his back. What ahs that got to do with Hatemonger?

This is it.

Originally posted by Alfheim


http://img286.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav3048142ve.jpg
http://img286.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamericav3048157yg.jpg

One punch from Cap puts Namor on his back and he gets up rubbing his head. Well I cant read Namors mind maybe it hurt a little bit, maybe it hurt alot, but when somebody is usually punched to the ground and gets up rubbing their head it usually indicates that the punch was powerful.

Soljer
Originally posted by Alfheim


Thats what people say about Spiderman. roll eyes (sarcastic)

No one says that Spiderman is hundreds of times faster. Hell, Spiderman is only 18 times faster than the average human.

Spiderman is, likely somewhere between one and two times faster, exclusive.

Namor really IS hundreds of times faster. no expression.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Soljer


Namor really IS hundreds of times faster. no expression.

So Namor is faster than Spiderman?

Soljer
Originally posted by Alfheim
So Namor is faster than Spiderman?

....

Yes.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Soljer
....

Yes.


Ok, prove it. At any rate I dont really care im just pissed because you think im fanboy because I think that Cap can knock Namor out. Yeah in a fight Namor will win a vast majority because of his skill, speed and power but im just arguing the case Cap does have the skill to KO him.

Soljer
Originally posted by Alfheim
because I think that Cap cant knock Namor out.

Hey! I'm glad we agree.

Also, I don't have the time nor the energy to hold your hand. Find it for yourself.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/360473_1-respect-namor

Alfheim
Originally posted by Soljer
Hey! I'm glad we agree.


Actually that was a typo and ive edited it.

Originally posted by Soljer

Also, I don't have the time nor the energy to hold your hand. Find it for yourself.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/360473_1-respect-namor

Well **** you very much. I can find scans but you cant be assed to get it, fine.

Soljer
Originally posted by Alfheim
Actually that was a typo and ive edited it.



Well **** you very much. I can find scans but you cant be assed to get it, fine.

What the f**k? What the f**k?

That's why we have a respect forum...

Alfheim
Originally posted by Soljer
What the f**k? What the f**k?

That's why we have a respect forum...

Yeah, yeah well im pissed because you're a rude pain in the ass. Know polite? Anyway I dont really care if Namor is faster but i'll look through the thread. Im just concerned with Caps capability to KO him.

Soljer
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah, yeah well im pissed because you're a rude pain in the ass. Know polite? Anyway I dont really care if Namor is faster but i'll look through the thread. Im just concerned with Caps capability to KO him.

Hate to break it to you, friend, but I become a rude pain in the ass to pretty much every fanboy.

erm.

Nvr and Wonder Woman?
Souja and Thor?
xmeat and Hulk?
You and Cap?

It's all the same.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Soljer
Hate to break it to you, friend, but I become a rude pain in the ass to pretty much every fanboy.

erm.

Nvr and Wonder Woman?
Souja and Thor?
xmeat and Hulk?
You and Cap?

It's all the same.

We will see about that.

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