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this would be a close fight, while preretcon beyonder has been shown beating the likes of LT, so has thanos with hotu.......who wins? my vote is for the beyonder

Beyonder. The abstracts didn't even dare face him to stop him from killing Death.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Beyonder. The abstracts didn't even dare face him to stop him from killing Death.

Thanos is above LT with Hotu..i dont know, ask Mr. MAster

That was a BS back then there was no real info on LT or Eternity like to day.

Originally posted by golem370
That was a BS back then there was no real info on LT or Eternity like to day.
reguarding the beyonder?

Originally posted by golem370
That was a BS back then there was no real info on LT or Eternity like to day.

yes but they still feared his power sooo much that that were to scared to fight him, even death feared the beyonder

His powers was a plot device that was not alowed by Marvel Corp but the writter put him that powerful and then Marvel put him at the recton level where he was meant to be all along.

Infinity Guatlet Thanos emprisoned Death and I am sure he could have killed her If he had wished

eternity was pleding with the beyonder. no one steped in.

Originally posted by golem370
Infinity Guatlet Thanos emprisoned Death and I am sure he could have killed her If he had wished

The IG is below LT.
Preretcon Betonder is above LT.

Like I said that was a plot device. And there was no real knowledge of how powerful LT was then..

Thanos w/hotu..

LT and the other abstracts did nothing to stop the beyonder, u ever sen the scans?

LT is top rank in the 616 universe, the beyonder is apart of the multiverse.. The writters wanted the beyonder to be all powerful, he can do anything just like the writters.

The Beyonder was a controversial character amongst creators. Creators felt that Jim Shooter had abused his role as editor-in-chief, and forced the use of the omnipotent character upon other writers and editors. Some critics felt the crossovers didn't always mesh well with the main book. One of the most vocal critics was John Byrne.

Apparently, Steve Englehart wanted to tie in the Beyonder to older characters known as the Beyonders (first mentioned in the team-up comic Marvel Two-in-One #63, beings powerful enough to collect planets) for his "Secret Wars III' story in Fantastic Four #318-319. According to Englehart, editor Ralph Macchio hated the character and ordered the Beyonder "removed" from the Marvel Universe. Englehart did as asked but has stated that he tried to exile the character with dignity. The character was subjected to a retcon making him less potent than originally determined, and explanations of his omnipotence have been written off as the more powerful beings "playing along" to ease the Beyonder's transition into self-awareness.

Originally posted by golem370
Like I said that was a plot device. And there was no real knowledge of how powerful LT was then..
heres the site gloem, copy and paste it, and ull see the beyonders power

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f95/t412978.html

Yes, but it was explained later that it was not really them..and since there was no fight between Beyonder and the Cosmic entities other than big G... It is quite hard to stipulate if pre retcon beyonder is above said cosmic beings.

Originally posted by Rols
Yes, but it was explained later that it was not really them..and since there was no fight between Beyonder and the Cosmic entities other than big G... It is quite hard to stipulate if pre retcon beyonder is above said cosmic beings.
beyonder killed death itself

I could say desame with The IG. It could erase any essesntial Cosmic being and replace it.. but it is said that pre retcon B. is more powerfull than IG. but was never shown all CB fighting Preretcon B.

LT is above the IG, and beyonder is above LT

You mean preretcon B is above LT.. Yeah Thats what they say.. But there is not enough feat. to me that shows it..

Originally posted by Rols
Yes, but it was explained later that it was not really them..and since there was no fight between Beyonder and the Cosmic entities other than big G... It is quite hard to stipulate if pre retcon beyonder is above said cosmic beings. Beyonder made short work of the Celestials.

Originally posted by Rols
You mean preretcon B is above LT.. Yeah Thats what they say.. But there is not enough feat. to me that shows it..
but it does shown all of the cosmics cowering in fear of the beyonder, too scared to fight him, if LT could have beaten him he would have

Yes he did.. but LT, Eternity, Death, Galactus could just as well do it.

The Beyonder physically beat down the Celestials just to teach them a lesson. And when he got all his power back, it's stated he is millions of times more powerful than the entire Multiverse. Not only that, but the LT was one of the abstracts that pleaded with him not to kill Death.

Plot device or not, it doesn't change the fact that before he was retconned, that was the Beyonder's power level. He was the most powerful being ever created in Marvel.

Originally posted by galan7777777
but it does shown all of the cosmics cowering in fear of the beyonder, too scared to fight him, if LT could have beaten him he would have

Yeah.. but as i say they never fought. Why were they not scared against IG, and HOTU?

Originally posted by Rols
Yeah.. but as i say they never fought. Why were they not scared against IG, and HOTU?

exactly because the hotu, and ig are nothing to beyonder.......xavier comments on beyonder saying that all beings are nothing but insects to the beyonder he has the power of 10 million multiverses

Originally posted by celestialdemon
The Beyonder physically beat down the Celestials just to teach them a lesson. And when he got all his power back, it's stated he is millions of times more powerful than the entire Multiverse. Not only that, but the LT was one of the abstracts that pleaded with him not to kill Death.

Plot device or not, it doesn't change the fact that before he was retconned, that was the Beyonder's power level. He was the most powerful being ever created in Marvel.

Its been a while since i read those series but who stated he was the most powerfull being in the entire Multiverse, Was it the Narator or the Cosmic entities on Panel?



But how does Xavier know these, has he ever fought The CB, has he ever meet them before? I mean how does a human comprehend the scope of power from these beings.

Originally posted by Rols
Yeah.. but as i say they never fought. Why were they not scared against IG, and HOTU?

Exactly. Why not? They thought they could defeat the IG and HOTU. They knew they couldn't stop the Beyonder. He had the power to completely destroy the entire multiverse, leaving himself only alive. Nothing and nobody ever had been stated to have that much power.

techniqually the one above all "not refering to the celestial" is considered to be the most powerful being, but its been hinted at that this being is either stan lee or jack kirby

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Exactly. Why not? They thought they could defeat the IG and HOTU. They knew they couldn't stop the Beyonder. He had the power to completely destroy the entire multiverse, leaving himself only alive. Nothing and nobody ever had been stated to have that much power.
i agree, because the beyonder actually did destroy the multiverse, but later recreated it

Originally posted by Rols
Its been a while since i read those series but who stated he was the most powerfull being in the entire Multiverse, Was it the Narator or the Cosmic entities on Panel?

On panel, by the narrator. Here's the link:

http://img431.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondermillionsofxmorepowerfu.jpg

What book did Beyonder beat down a celestial?

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Exactly. Why not? They thought they could defeat the IG and HOTU. They knew they couldn't stop the Beyonder. He had the power to completely destroy the entire multiverse, leaving himself only alive. Nothing and nobody ever had been stated to have that much power.

As i recall the CB's did not beat HOTU, and IG(cept. LT).
But my question is Was it the Narator or the CB's that stated, preretcon Beyonder is the most powerfull entity in the multiverse? Id agree if the Narator or CB's stated this.

Ohh..right forgut about that.. destruction of the multiverse..

Originally posted by golem370
What book did Beyonder beat down a celestial?

Here's one pic of it:

http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondervscelestials4hq8.jpg

Check out Mr Master's respect thread.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=412978

Originally posted by golem370
That was a BS back then there was no real info on LT or Eternity like to day.

Where'd you get that from?

Eternity was the embodiment of the Universe(space)FAR before the Secret Wars saga.

Death

LT was the Multiversal judge before classic-Beyonder came on the scene.


These Abstract too:

Lord Chaos & Master Order(they had their own universe back then)

Mistress Love and Master Hate

Chronos who was the embodiment of Time then(now it's Eternity)



Infinity(embodiment of space)did not exist back then.

Originally posted by golem370
Infinity Guatlet Thanos emprisoned Death and I am sure he could have killed her If he had wished

That's speculation.

First off that was the Single Universal Aspect of Death NOT the Multiversal one...



Beyonder erased Death from the Multi-verse.

Originally posted by Priest
The IG is below LT.
Preretcon Betonder is above LT.

I concur.

Originally posted by golem370
The Beyonder was a controversial character amongst creators. Creators felt that Jim Shooter had abused his role as editor-in-chief, and forced the use of the omnipotent character upon other writers and editors. Some critics felt the crossovers didn't always mesh well with the main book. One of the most vocal critics was John Byrne.

Apparently, Steve Englehart wanted to tie in the Beyonder to older characters known as the Beyonders (first mentioned in the team-up comic Marvel Two-in-One #63, beings powerful enough to collect planets) for his "Secret Wars III' story in Fantastic Four #318-319. According to Englehart, editor Ralph Macchio hated the character and ordered the Beyonder "removed" from the Marvel Universe. Englehart did as asked but has stated that he tried to exile the character with dignity. The character was subjected to a retcon making him less potent than originally determined, and explanations of his omnipotence have been written off as the more powerful beings "playing along" to ease the Beyonder's transition into self-awareness.

I've read that before...

It's inconsequential because until the retcon...everything Beyonder did was on panel and actual.

This is why we refer to this version as Pre-Retcon Beyonder.



The funny thing about the retcon...that even in that issue #319...

Beyonder(who's supposed to be an incomplete cosmic cube)
Was a Universe...and Kubik who's supposedly can warp reality upto a pocket dimension...turned Beyonder's entire universe into a pebble.

Originally posted by Rols
Yes, but it was explained later that it was not really them..and since there was no fight between Beyonder and the Cosmic entities other than big G... It is quite hard to stipulate if pre retcon beyonder is above said cosmic beings.

Beyonder demolished Dr. Doom(who had become a FULL Powered Galactus)like nothing.

FULL powered Galactus = Eternity.

Originally posted by Rols
You mean preretcon B is above LT.. Yeah Thats what they say.. But there is not enough feat. to me that shows it..

LT unwittingly excepting that Beyonder would destroy his Multi-verse, and there's nothing he could do about it, is enough.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Plot device or not, it doesn't change the fact that before he was retconned, that was the Beyonder's power level. He was the most powerful being ever created in Marvel.

yes

Originally posted by golem370
What book did Beyonder beat down a celestial?

In Secret Wars II #5 I believe.

He beats down every Celestial in the area.

he travelled to their World complex Headquarters.

hand to hand he smacked all of them around.

Originally posted by Rols
As i recall the CB's did not beat HOTU, and IG(cept. LT).
But my question is Was it the Narator or the CB's that stated, preretcon Beyonder is the most powerfull entity in the multiverse? Id agree if the Narator or CB's stated this.

Narrator said this.

Beyonder is Millions of Times More Powerful than ALL the Rest of the Multiverse Combined.
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/7524/beyondermillionsofxmorepowerfu.th.jpg

Originally posted by galan7777777
this would be a close fight, while preretcon beyonder has been shown beating the likes of LT, so has thanos with hotu.......who wins? my vote is for the beyonder

Well thats not quite true is it?

I dont recall any instance of Pre retcon Beyonder beating LT.

In terms of presentation id say while they both were betrayed as pretty omnipotent, Beyonder has the upper hand. In terms of on panel feats, definitely Thanos with the Heart Of The Infinite.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Narrator said this.

Beyonder is Millions of Times More Powerful than ALL the Rest of the Multiverse Combined.
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/7524/beyondermillionsofxmorepowerfu.th.jpg

He did indeed and yet at the same time Beyonders actions on panel disputed this claim. Therefore youre unjustified in trying to present that line as fact.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder demolished Dr. Doom(who had become a FULL Powered Galactus)like nothing.

FULL powered Galactus = Eternity.

As has been claimed, but never demonstrated to render the point fact.

It wasnt a Galactus powered Doom that defeated the Beyonder, that stole away his "omnipotence" ( ) against his will, Doom as stated had been defeated by Beyonder had used up the energy he had stolen from Galactus' ship and he defeated Beyonder with one of his little contraptions.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder demolished Dr. Doom(who had become a FULL Powered Galactus)like nothing.

FULL powered Galactus = Eternity. i dont want to start a war, but the hotu destroyed eternity, infinity, and LT at the same time. like nothing.

Originally posted by bigbran
i dont want to start a war, but the hotu destroyed eternity, infinity, and LT at the same time. like nothing.

Precisely

This is exactly the reason why i said that in terms of how the characters were portrayed on panel, the Beyonder has the edge because i believe he perhaps was presented as being omnipotent to a higher degree, (although thats arguable), however in terms of on panel feats Thanos' ones (the ones you've highlighted for example) trump Pre retcon Beyonders.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This is exactly the reason why i said that in terms of how the characters were portrayed on panel, the Beyonder has the edge because i believe he perhaps was presented as being omnipotent to a higher degree, (although thats arguable), however in terms of on panel feats Thanos' ones (the ones you've highlighted for example) trump Pre retcon Beyonders.

But I never said pre-retcon Beyonder was above or below the HOTU...

imo...they were the same.

Beyonder could do anything and hotu can do anything.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
however in terms of on panel feats Thanos' ones (the ones you've highlighted for example) trump Pre retcon Beyonders.

I would disagree with that...on panel beyonder did anything he wanted...

including plenty of Multiversal feats.

Originally posted by Mr Master
But I never said pre-retcon Beyonder was above or below the HOTU...

imo...they were the same.

Beyonder could do anything and hotu can do anything.

Cool.

Now lets continue our sparring in the Lucifer thread.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As has been claimed, but never demonstrated to render the point fact.

good ol' gs is back...


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It wasnt a Galactus powered Doom that defeated the Beyonder,

Your right...It was a FULL Powered Galactus(Doom)that got burnt up in ONE page.


This is Dr. Doom....after Absorbing Galactus's power...and Galactus's Ship.
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/2152/doomfullgalactusrr7.th.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/4957/doomfullgalactus1cx6.th.jpg

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/9328/doomfullgalactus2db9.th.jpg

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2672/doomuniversalawarenessiy7.th.jpg

This is that same Dr. Doom...
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/438/doctordoomvsbeyondereh4.th.jpg

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
that stole away his "omnipotence" against his will, Doom as stated had been defeated by Beyonder had used up the energy he had stolen from Galactus' ship and he defeated Beyonder with one of his little contraptions.

"As stated"...are you going to bet your life on that?

And actualy...that "little contraption"...was Galactus's technology...NOT Doom's.
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/1884/doomvsbeyonder3de7.th.jpg

But he was only able to do this because:

This Doctor Doom, that was in Secret Wars the first series,

that wasn't really Doom,(well technically it was but read)that was a Future self of Doom plucked from the timestream courtesy of the Beyonder,

This is incredible,
Not only does Beyonder use a Doom from the future to fight in the Secret Wars saga, which now explains HOW Doom was able to Manipulate Galactus's vast technology, but the funny thing is Doom was already dead, he had been dead since FF #260, when the FF, Doom and Silver Surfer took on Terrax.

The insane part is,
He plucked him from a future that he himself was going to create for Doom way after the Secret Wars series, simply amazing.
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/6926/b1qw4.th.jpg
This is well into the Secret Wars II series by the way,

Now Beyonder sends Doom back in time to the Secret Wars drama that was already played out, just to re-install Doom's mind/spirit with his original body,
he speeds up that seperate event in time(Secret Wars I)and ends up in the now, with a fully revived and renewd DOOM.
Unbelievable.
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/3189/b2pe0.th.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
I would disagree with that...on panel beyonder did anything he wanted...

including plenty of Multiversal feats.

He sent a bolt of energy that flew through the multiverse, destroying everything in its path. Not as impressive as defeating all forces within a universe before absorbing said universe.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He sent a bolt of energy that flew through the multiverse, destroying everything in its path. Not as impressive as defeating all forces within a universe before absorbing said universe.

Beyonder contained and absorbed an explosion that would have disintegrated the Microverse.



The Microverse was originally one of a number of dimensions through out the multi-verse accessed via shrinking beyond the limits of normal existence in the Earth dimension.

These realms are not actually sub-atomic, as initially thought, but just accessed via the energy released by such shrinking.

These multiple microverses no longer exist.

It was revealed during Peter David's Captain Marvel series that a thus far unseen conflict between Baron Karza and Thanos had resulted in all of the realms of the Microverse becoming merged into a single Mega-Universe referred to as the Microverse.
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/5395/whatisthemicroversewl8.th.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
good ol' gs is back...




Your right...It was a FULL Powered Galactus(Doom)that got burnt up in ONE page.


This is Dr. Doom....after Absorbing Galactus's power...and Galactus's Ship.




This is that same Dr. Doom...



"As stated"...are you going to bet your life on that?

And actualy...that "little contraption"...was Galactus's technology...NOT Doom's.


But he was only able to do this because:

This Doctor Doom, that was in Secret Wars the first series,

that wasn't really Doom,(well technically it was but read)that was a Future self of Doom plucked from the timestream courtesy of the Beyonder,

This is incredible,
Not only does Beyonder use a Doom from the future to fight in the Secret Wars saga, which now explains HOW Doom was able to Manipulate Galactus's vast technology, but the funny thing is Doom was already dead, he had been dead since FF #260, when the FF, Doom and Silver Surfer took on Terrax.

The insane part is,
He plucked him from a future that he himself was going to create for Doom way after the Secret Wars series, simply amazing.

This is well into the Secret Wars II series by the way,

Now Beyonder sends Doom back in time to the Secret Wars drama that was already played out, just to re-install Doom's mind/spirit with his original body,
he speeds up that seperate event in time(Secret Wars I)and ends up in the now, with a fully revived and renewd DOOM.
Unbelievable.


Nice feat, but lets not get sidetracked from the main issue here.

Doom using technology from Galactus' ship was able to absorb the supposedly omnipotent Beyonders power against his will. Does that or does that not contradict the statement pertaining to Beyonders power level that you so love to post at any and every oppurtunity.

Please dont go off on a tangent posting loads of Beyonders feats as that course of action would neither address the query put forward to you or change what happened on panel.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder contained and absorbed an explosion that would have disintegrated the Microverse.



The Microverse was originally one of a number of dimensions through out the multi-verse accessed via shrinking beyond the limits of normal existence in the Earth dimension.

These realms are not actually sub-atomic, as initially thought, but just accessed via the energy released by such shrinking.

These multiple microverses no longer exist.

It was revealed during Peter David's Captain Marvel series that a thus far unseen conflict between Baron Karza and Thanos had resulted in all of the realms of the Microverse becoming merged into a single Mega-Universe referred to as the Microverse.
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/5395/whatisthemicroversewl8.th.jpg

So Beyonder contained an explosion that could have destroyed the Microverse. Niiiiice. Still not as impressive as Thanos' feat.

Originally posted by galan7777777
LT is above the IG, and beyonder is above LT

And that, my friends is that .

We'll continue this later, ive got work in the morning

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So Beyonder contained an explosion that could have destroyed the Microverse. Niiiiice. Still not as impressive as Thanos' feat.

It is easy to contradict with words. How about posting some panels or providing links to panals that show Thanos' feats?

Originally posted by Cubicks
It is easy to contradict with words. How about posting some panels or providing links to panals that show Thanos' feats?

he cant because thanos has never done anything that comes close to beyonders.......when has thanos ever killed death itself, and struk fear into the cosmics? lol

Originally posted by galan7777777
he cant because thanos has never done anything that comes close to beyonders.......when has thanos ever killed death itself, and struk fear into the cosmics? lol

I have read and seen all of the Beyonder's feats on his respect page. I have yet to see anything on Thanos w/ the HOTU though. I would really like to see something with Thanos and the HOTU.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So Beyonder contained an explosion that could have destroyed the Microverse. Niiiiice. Still not as impressive as Thanos' feat.

Nice job on the twisting my words around but I'll say again.

Beyonder CONTAINED and ABSORBED an Explosion that WOULD have DISINTEGRATED the Micro-verse.

WOULD HAVE, because the EXPLOSION was already in the middle of it's DISINTEGRATION.


The Micro-verse, a Universe that was made from MILLIONS of pocket universes, is A UNIVERSE BIGGER than 616.

Originally posted by Cubicks
I have read and seen all of the Beyonder's feats on his respect page. I have yet to see anything on Thanos w/ the HOTU though. I would really like to see something with Thanos and the HOTU.

me2, but you cant compare the 2 in any way....beyonder could destroy the multiverse and all in it with a thought, i do not believe thanos could have done the same, and even so LT at least tried to stop thanos with hotu, but LT made no effort 2 stop beyonder...whats that tell ya!

Originally posted by galan7777777
me2, but you cant compare the 2 in any way....beyonder could destroy the multiverse and all in it with a thought, i do not believe thanos could have done the same, and even so LT at least tried to stop thanos with hotu, but LT made no effort 2 stop beyonder...whats that tell ya!

Well I would rather judge after seeing what Thanos is capable of. I am well aware of what Beyonder is capable of and what LT represents.

Originally posted by Cubicks
Well I would rather judge after seeing what Thanos is capable of. I am well aware of what Beyonder is capable of and what LT represents.

Thanos with the THOU was supreme...

Because he did infact, absorb all the cosmics including LT and the universe.

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/6320/mute0604zl8.th.jpg
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/7523/mute0605tt3.th.jpg
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/218/mute0606sy8.th.jpg
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/112/mute0607kh7.th.jpg
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/7349/mute0608xt0.th.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5201/mute0609te2.th.jpg


But here's just another example of how powerful Beyonder was:

Beyonder gives the ENTIRE Multi-verse 24 hours before he will erase it.
Isn't that cool to be able to say I give existence 24 hours...and mean it.
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1357/beyondermakesawagerwmephistojs3.th.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2186/beyondercandestroyeverythingpq5.th.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
Thanos with the THOU was supreme...

Because he did infact, absorb all the cosmics including LT and the universe.

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/6320/mute0604zl8.th.jpg
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/7523/mute0605tt3.th.jpg
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/218/mute0606sy8.th.jpg
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/112/mute0607kh7.th.jpg
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/7349/mute0608xt0.th.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5201/mute0609te2.th.jpg


But here's just another example of how powerful Beyonder was:

Beyonder gives the ENTIRE Multi-verse 24 hours before he will erase it.
Isn't that cool to be able to say I give existence 24 hours...and mean it.
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1357/beyondermakesawagerwmephistojs3.th.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2186/beyondercandestroyeverythingpq5.th.jpg

because he absorbed these entities means nothing, even after this i dont feel that he was stronger then millions of multiverses combined, as the beyonder was

and plus mr. master absorbing the entities isnt really the same as destroying it

Originally posted by galan7777777
because he absorbed these entities means nothing, even after this i dont feel that he was stronger then millions of multiverses combined, as the beyonder was

Ey no doubt.

Originally posted by galan7777777
and plus mr. master absorbing the entities isnt really the same as destroying it

Nah...they were destroyed as they were absorbed...it is the same thing.

Still...Beyonder is the most powerful being ever...I agree.

Originally posted by galan7777777
and plus mr. master absorbing the entities isnt really the same as destroying it wouldnt that be harder to do?

beyonder would win

Originally posted by Mr Master
Ey no doubt.

and how did thanos with hotu ever get beaten?

he didnt.

Originally posted by bigbran
he didnt. well what became of him then?

He gave up his power willingly and killed himself in the process.

Originally posted by Mordum
He gave up his power willingly and killed himself in the process. then he had a montage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfFvKyLrGYc&search=rocky%20montage

Originally posted by Mordum
He gave up his power willingly and killed himself in the process. why did he give it up, was it too much for him?

He felt he had a greater purpose and yadada "insert some meaningful dialogue" and gave it up for the better good.

Originally posted by Mordum
He felt he had a greater purpose and yadada "insert some meaningful dialogue" and gave it up for the better good. who talked him into this?

Thats the funny thing it was himself he thought god had planned it all and was basically talking to himself the whole time.

Originally posted by Mordum
Thats the funny thing it was himself he thought god had planned it all and was basically talking to himself the whole time.

that dosent make sence, he was omnipotent......u'd think with knowedge of all that is, he'd know for sure who planned it.......and there would be no thinking at all

Thanos saw in the DNA of reality that death was no longer an ending. Since wonderman had been brought back from death years ago, countless others had to. Thanos being the Nihilist he is, craves death. His love for lady death knows no end. So he did the only thing he could. He used his absolute power to force death as the final end for all beings. Not even thanos would be free from a final death. No character who died would later be brought back. Its the new rule. But to create a new rule for the multiverse requires a lot of power. Everything Thanos had.

Which would you choose. Absolute power. Or as a nihilist, death of all things. Both were thanos dreams. But like death has told Thanos times before. Death is only death, because there is a constant stream of life to die, to go to death. Its why he didn't end all life there. Now all things are left to chance, and noone can "cheat" death.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Thanos with the THOU was supreme...

Because he did infact, absorb all the cosmics including LT and the universe.

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/6320/mute0604zl8.th.jpg
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/7523/mute0605tt3.th.jpg
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/218/mute0606sy8.th.jpg
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/112/mute0607kh7.th.jpg
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/7349/mute0608xt0.th.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5201/mute0609te2.th.jpg


But here's just another example of how powerful Beyonder was:

Beyonder gives the ENTIRE Multi-verse 24 hours before he will erase it.
Isn't that cool to be able to say I give existence 24 hours...and mean it.
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1357/beyondermakesawagerwmephistojs3.th.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2186/beyondercandestroyeverythingpq5.th.jpg

Mr. Master, thank you for the panels of Thanos. I have a question for you, was Thanos a Universal or Multi-Versal threat?

Something else I have been thinking about is that when the Beyonder killed Multi-Death, LT was present. From what I have seen, LT deals in absolutes as a judging body. The mere fact that LT was present while Beyonder killed Multi-Death would leave me to believe that it was an event that LT did not wish to occur. It is irrelevant to me that he took no "direct" action to stop Beyonder, if it was within LT's power to stop Beyonder, I have to believe that he would. The only reason that makes sense to me as to why LT would take no action against the Beyonder is that he could not forcibly make Beyonder stop. That is why they seem to take the "pleading" route. If you could stop someone from doing something terrible by physical means, you would try to appeal to their mental sensibility right?

Thanos is a favorite character of mine and in the panels provided he looked to be a pretty bada$$ dude. There are two things that I want to point out, that are only my observations. First, LT did in fact take action against Thanos in a very direct way, whether it was pure desperation or he thought that he would prevail is unclear. However, and this ties into my second observation, LT along with Infinity and Eternity were able to resist Thanos the longest. I understand that ultimately they were unsuccessful, however they were able to resist.

Based upon my own OPINIONS and OBSERVATIONS, LT provided no resistance whatsoever in the presence of the Beyonder and I think that Beyonder would prevail over Thanos in this fight.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nice job on the twisting my words around but I'll say again.

Beyonder CONTAINED and ABSORBED an Explosion that WOULD have DISINTEGRATED the Micro-verse.

WOULD HAVE, because the EXPLOSION was already in the middle of it's DISINTEGRATION.

You've got a habit of saying that.

I said he contained a universal explosion. You said he did that and he absorbed it as well.

If i was twisting your words i wouldve typed up a completely different take on events, with a completely different meaning and yet go on to say that thats what you meant in your previous description. Instead i typed up Beyonders feat but in a level of detail you didnt feel was satisfactory. Do you see the difference?

No false accusations please.


Originally posted by Mr Master
The Micro-verse, a Universe that was made from MILLIONS of pocket universes, is A UNIVERSE BIGGER than 616.

Not that i doubt that, but where is that stated just to make sure.

Plus absorbing a universe is a greater feat than absorbing an explosion that could blow up a universe. Not only did Thanos do that but he also defeated and absorbed LT simultaneously along with his universal absorption.

For all the talk about what Beyonder was capable of, there were no on panel feats to conclusively back it up, therefore while in terms of portrayal, he has the edge over Thanos, in terms of on panel feats, Thanos has him beat.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
For all the talk about what Beyonder was capable of, there were no on panel feats to conclusively back it up, therefore while in terms of portrayal, he has the edge over Thanos, in terms of on panel feats, Thanos has him beat.

There were actually quite a few panel feats of what Beyonder was capable of. Did they show EVERYTHING he could possibly do? I do not think so. Then again how often is the true limit of any character ever shown?

Originally posted by Cubicks
There were actually quite a few panel feats of what Beyonder was capable of. Did they show EVERYTHING he could possibly do? I do not think so. Then again how often is the true limit of any character ever shown?

I never said that they didnt show what Beyonder was capable of. What im saying is that what he has been shown to be capable of, what actual on panel feats he has performed are trumped by characters like Thanos with Heart Of The Infinite and the Phoenix. With that in mind noone can say that all his talk about his capabilities is fact because we have no proof of that. When captions state that Wolverine moves at lightning speed, does that mean he literally moved at a third of the speed of light? Hyperbole. Without on panel backing such as a feat illustrating the point being made or another feat showing a similar level of power output character claims alone are insufficient evidence.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I never said that they didnt show what Beyonder was capable of. What im saying is that what he has been shown to be capable of, what actual on panel feats he has performed are trumped by characters like Thanos with Heart Of The Infinite and the Phoenix. With that in mind noone can say that all his talk about his capabilities is fact because we have no proof of that. When captions state that Wolverine moves at lightning speed, does that mean he literally moved at a third of the speed of light? Hyperbole. Without on panel backing such as a feat illustrating the point being made or another feat showing a similar level of power output character claims alone are insufficient evidence.

i have heard of this "god-like wolverine" do u have that pannel by any chance? id really like 2 see it

Originally posted by Cubicks
Mr. Master, thank you for the panels of Thanos. I have a question for you, was Thanos a Universal or Multi-Versal threat?

I believe Thanos was a Multi-versal threat.

The End series suggest this at times but it's confusing...because other times...it suggest one Universe is being affected.

Originally posted by Cubicks
Based upon my own OPINIONS and OBSERVATIONS, LT provided no resistance whatsoever in the presence of the Beyonder and I think that Beyonder would prevail over Thanos in this fight.

Your completely right.

I agree with you and I always felt the same about this incident.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If i was twisting your words i wouldve typed up a completely different take on events, with a completely different meaning and yet go on to say that thats what you meant in your previous description. Instead i typed up Beyonders feat but in a level of detail you didnt feel was satisfactory. Do you see the difference?

Actually you said, " the Beyonder contained an explosion that "COULD HAVE" destroyed the Micro-verse.

What I said originally, " the Beyonder contained an explosion that WOULD HAVE disintegrated the Micro-verse.

COULD, implies possiblity, uncertainty.

WOULD, indicates the consequence of an event, certainty.

Do you see the difference?

The explosion was disintegrating the Micro-verse when Beyonder contained/absorbed it.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not that i doubt that, but where is that stated just to make sure.

I'll get you the scans.(Micro-verse being bigger than 616)


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Plus absorbing a universe is a greater feat than absorbing an explosion that could blow up a universe.

I don't really see any difference...but thats my opinion.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not only did Thanos do that but he also defeated and absorbed LT simultaneously along with his universal absorption.

I'll agree.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
For all the talk about what Beyonder was capable of, there were no on panel feats to conclusively back it up, therefore while in terms of portrayal, he has the edge over Thanos, in terms of on panel feats, Thanos has him beat.

I disagree.

Beyonder did anything he wanted...what are you talking about.

the Multi-verse was his insignificant toy...have you even visited the pre-retcon Beyonder respect thread?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im saying that without a feat that is beyond anything the refferred characters have been shown to do or without a confrontation over any of the referred characters then you cant take character comments as fact.

I think that you are walking a slippery slope with this statement. While I do agree that character dialogue should at times be taken at face value, I do not think that it should be at all times. I think that we both can agree that the Beyonder does not follow a typical or even non-typical comic character. In terms of dialogue, actions, and appearance (he wears jumpsuits and business causal wear? WTF?) he does not fit the mold of any comic character. As such I think that he not really definable by other comic characters.

I guess my main point is that Beyonder's introduction into the into the MU was intended to be something different. If you choose to go by panel feats and ignore panel dialogue/intentions alltogether, then I guess this is a moot point. However, I think that Beyonder's introduction is not something to take a face value.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What im saying is that what he has been shown to be capable of, what actual on panel feats he has performed are trumped by characters like Thanos with Heart Of The Infinite and the Phoenix.

Phoenix?

hysterical

Let's stick to Thanos.


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
With that in mind noone can say that all his talk about his capabilities is fact because we have no proof of that.

"His talk"

More like the narrator/writer and OTHER characters doing the most of the talking but who's counting.

In the Respect thread you'l see a LONG list of different comic book titles where everyone said, Beyonder was the all mighty...

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
When captions state that Wolverine moves at lightning speed, does that mean he literally moved at a third of the speed of light?

Poor analogy.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Without on panel backing such as a feat illustrating the point being made or another feat showing a similar level of power output character claims alone are insufficient evidence.

Beyonder had plenty of back up...and I'm not going to feed your little hate campaigne.

Your about the only one attempting to cast a shadow on Beyonder's light...ain't gonna happen so give it up.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
With your Thanos and JLA comment for example Thanos has shown abilities with the HOTI vastly beyond the JLA therefore it is a reasonable assumption.

Your very selective when it comes to Assumptions.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
However considering Beyonders performances against characters within 616 (Galactus' tech employed by Doom able to steal against his will Beyonders power,

Galactus's tech is capable of Destroying and Remaking the Multi-verse in the blink of an eye.(Ultimate Nullifier)

We later learned that Beyonder coerced that entire event.


That was a highly advanced Doom from the DISTANT Future that Beyonder placed in Secret Wars Personally.

Doom WAS DEAD.

How did Beyonder extract Doom from the future if Doom was dead already?


Beyonder used a Doom from the future to fight in the Secret Wars saga, which now explains HOW Doom was able to Manipulate Galactus's vast technology, but the funny thing is Doom was already dead, he had been dead since FF #260, when the FF, Doom and Silver Surfer took on Terrax.

The insane part is,
He plucked him from a future that he himself was going to create for Doom way after the Secret Wars series, simply amazing.
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/6926/b1qw4.th.jpg
This is well into the Secret Wars II series,

Now Beyonder sends Doom back in time to the Secret Wars drama that was already played out, just to re-install Doom's mind/spirit with his original body,
he speeds up that seperate event in time(Secret Wars I)and ends up in the now, with a fully revived and renewd DOOM.
Unbelievable.
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/3189/b2pe0.th.jpg


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
it taking half Beyonders power to kill Death) it is not justifiable to take the comments referring to Beyonder being a million times more powerful than the marvel multiverse as fact.

That's an EXAGGERATION!

No where does it say Beyonder used HALF his power to kill Death.
"ALOT of power"...never specifies HOW much exactly.

I'll take that as an honest mistake but Don't start Twisting the facts.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Your very selective when it comes to Assumptions.



Galactus's tech is capable of Destroying and Remaking the Multi-verse in the blink of an eye.(Ultimate Nullifier)

We later learned that Beyonder coerced that entire event.


That was a highly advanced Doom from the DISTANT Future that Beyonder placed in Secret Wars Personally.

Doom WAS DEAD.

How did Beyonder extract Doom from the future if Doom was dead already?


Beyonder used a Doom from the future to fight in the Secret Wars saga, which now explains HOW Doom was able to Manipulate Galactus's vast technology, but the funny thing is Doom was already dead, he had been dead since FF #260, when the FF, Doom and Silver Surfer took on Terrax.

The insane part is,
He plucked him from a future that he himself was going to create for Doom way after the Secret Wars series, simply amazing.
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/6926/b1qw4.th.jpg
This is well into the Secret Wars II series,

Now Beyonder sends Doom back in time to the Secret Wars drama that was already played out, just to re-install Doom's mind/spirit with his original body,
he speeds up that seperate event in time(Secret Wars I)and ends up in the now, with a fully revived and renewd DOOM.
Unbelievable.
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/3189/b2pe0.th.jpg




That's an EXAGGERATION!

No where does it say Beyonder used HALF his power to kill Death.
"ALOT of power"...never specifies HOW much exactly.

I'll take that as an honest mistake but Don't start Twisting the facts.


Didn't he also bring her back to life soon afterwards?

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Didn't he also bring her back to life soon afterwards?

Yes he did...

Actually he Re-created a new Death.

"it begins ANEW"


ANEW: from websters dictionary:

in a new or different way

Both the Heart and the Beyonder have some unique high end feats.

The Heart literally owned the Living Tribunal. Even for comics this a rare. A true defeat of the Living Tribunal.

On the other hand we have the Beyonder who did no such thing. But unlike others, I do consider the very reason of no such confrontation is quite obvious, the Beyonder was more powerful. The Tribunal was among Eternity and other cosmics to PLEAD their case. They fought Thanos with the Heart; they pleaded with the PR Beyonder.

http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=abstractsbegbeyonder2wr7.jpg

http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mute0605tt3.jpg

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Both the Heart and the Beyonder have some unique high end feats.

The Heart literally owned the Living Tribunal. Even for comics this a rare. A true defeat of the Living Tribunal.

On the other hand we have the Beyonder who did no such thing. But unlike others, I do consider the very reason of no such confrontation is quite obvious, the Beyonder was more powerful. The Tribunal was among Eternity and other cosmics to PLEAD their case. They fought Thanos with the Heart; they pleaded with the PR Beyonder.

http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=abstractsbegbeyonder2wr7.jpg

http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mute0605tt3.jpg
true thanos was powerful with the hotu having killed LT, but beyonder had the power of millions of multiverses, thanos even with his power didnt even have the power of 1 multiverse, thats why it was called "the heart of the universe" and not "the heart of the multiverse" do u c what im saying?

Originally posted by galan7777777
true thanos was powerful with the hotu having killed LT, but beyonder had the power of millions of multiverses, thanos even with his power didnt even have the power of 1 multiverse, thats why it was called "the heart of the universe" and not "the heart of the multiverse" do u c what im saying?

no

Originally posted by thedude1948
no u dont understand?

Originally posted by galan7777777
true thanos was powerful with the hotu having killed LT, but beyonder had the power of millions of multiverses, thanos even with his power didnt even have the power of 1 multiverse, thats why it was called "the heart of the universe" and not "the heart of the multiverse" do u c what im saying?

I thought that, unlike Eternity, Death, Infinity, etc 1 for each universe, there is only 1 Living Tribunal for the entire multiverse, and he has power over said multiverse.

For Thanos to have defeated him says that he out-muscled the secondary multiversal power.

Well considering highest being/entity, TOAA himself had to come to manipulate Thanos with HOTU, I say THOTU is the greatest power ever shown in Marvel Universe.

The living tribunal was trash in the secret wars series. He not even the right color and didnt say anything except a few tiny lines. They screwed him up bad there.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Well considering highest being/entity, TOAA himself had to come to manipulate Thanos with HOTU, I say THOTU is the greatest power ever shown in Marvel Universe. whats TOAA?

Originally posted by lft4ded
I thought that, unlike Eternity, Death, Infinity, etc 1 for each universe, there is only 1 Living Tribunal for the entire multiverse, and he has power over said multiverse.

For Thanos to have defeated him says that he out-muscled the secondary multiversal power. actually LT exists in all of the universes also, thanos absorbed only the LT in his universe

Originally posted by galan7777777
whats TOAA?

The One Above All.

This topic has been re-opened in another thread, wanted to bump this as it more in it.